>> a concerning update tonight. a man with numerous weapons and materials to make a molotov cocktail was arrested today near the d.c. home of former president barack obama. it turns out he has been wanted in connection with the attack on the u.s. capital january the 6th. and there was a warrant out for his arrest. long forsman officials tell cnn tonight that the suspect, taylor toronto, claimed on an internet livestream that he had a -- he added though that there is

no indication of a direct threat to the obamas, and he has now been arrested. as a fugitive of justice. a spokesperson for the obamas declined to comment tonight to cnn. thank you so much for joining us, cnn tonight with alison tomorrow starts right now. >> thank you very much caitlin, good to see you. good evening everyone i'm alison camerota and welcome to cnn tonight on a big news night the supreme court handing down a decision that's being described as a generational shift. it will alter the way colleges and universities have operated for decades. the conservative majority coat, overturned a juror -- a long-standing precedent designed to help level the playing field for black and hispanic students. tonight, we will speak to lawyers and students directly involved in this landmark decision. plus, another member of donald trump's inner circle is talking to the special counsel's investigators. sources tell cnn that susie wildes, a top campaign aide, was shown a classified map relating to a

military operation by trump, during a meeting at bedminster in the summer of 2020. one this is yet a neither incident of trump showing off secret information, separate and apart from that -- audiotape that cnn obtained. we're also learning another former trump campaign official is corroborating with the special counsel. so we have much more on that ahead. in a stunning verdict in the trial of scott peterson. he's the ex-school resource officer who stayed outside, during the school stew shooting at marjory stoneman douglas in parkland florida. 17 people died that day, including 14 students. >> we the jury, find the defendant in this case the defendant is not guilty. so say we all, this 29th day of june 2023 of rotterdam county florida. >> okay, we'll be covering that story later the. program but speed of the supreme court's

landmark decision on affirmative action. ruling that colleges and universities can no longer take race into consideration for granting admission. here to help us understand what this means for students, for colleges, for the country, our chief legal analyst laura coats. laura, great to see. so, how will this. let's start with collagen missions, how will this change college admissions? >> well, remember. in a series of cases, we already knew that could be not be quotas, there could not be the so-called plus factor that you would assign to race in the overall application of admission process. the real quest for the court now is whether race could be considered part of a holistic review of an application. akin to what you do for say, a shell list, or maybe an athlete. or a legacy student, or a donors child, or perhaps a veteran, any number of factors. what the court decided today, was that no, you cannot use race as a part of even a holistic process. they believe in the majority of the 14th amendment says, we do not want to look at race at all, as either a

detriment or an advantage, to be kind of a color blind society as it relates to rates. now, we can all quibble about whether that in fact is a genuine argument or disingenuous. but the majority holding found just that. and as a result, they are saying you cannot use race as a factor. but of course allison, the issue here is that there is a line, in the holding, that says this is not mean you cannot accept, or have a student who is discussing race, and i'm paraphrasing here, in say college admissions essay. so, now creates quite the conundrum. as an emissions officer, you can't look at race, but yet a student migh t be able to describe one's identity, once experience as a member of a particular race, and are they supposed to throw away -- or disregard it, theatrical aspect of it, or what shall i do. the descent of course gave a very fiery response about the fact that, they do not believe we are in a color blind or race blind society, and that it is a means of course correction that still very much is. needed >> i find the college essay

component to this, as you described, so confusing. having had to seniors who have just gone through this, the college essay is about your lived experience, or it supposed to be, to shed light on who you really, are beyond your test scores. and, so what justice roberts said about it, i'll just read to everyone. he says, nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicants discussion of how race affected his or her life. be a true discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. but despite the dissent's assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish, through application, essays or other means, the regime we hold unlawful today, what cannot be done directly, cannot be done indirectly. it is confusing. laura >> it can be, and you look at how do i really actually carry this out, without either offending the ruling, or the constitution as the majority is holding here. so remember, when people are talking about affirmative action, there seems to be a very growing trend, where people are talking about one thing or another, but never quite how affirmative action actually works. so the president united states actually alluded to today in

his own speech, it's not that you begin with race of an applicant. and then decide whether they are qualified at that moment. it's about the qualifications of the actual applicant, whether they are already otherwise qualified on a merit based, and albeit, subjective set of criteria. and then, race is often used in terms of the admissions process as it was articulated, in the arguments before the court in briefings, and -- beyond, as a way of looking at, similarly perhaps, situated students, or those who have maybe similar tasks scores, particular similar geographic regions or other things. and then, to what extent one applicant can contribute to the admissions, criteria, vision of the campus versus the other. that's usually how it's been looked at. and so, this notion that race is the predominant driving factor to decide who is first qualified, is actually not an accurate assessment. but even so, the supreme court has said race cannot be a part of

admissions criteria. and that is going to lead to some uncertainty. but more like the allison, a lot of litigation now about whether it's being followed by individual schools. probably the recent president biden's administration i want to provide some kind of guidance ahead of an upcoming fall semester. >> okay, we're going to get into those very issues right now, laura thank you very much. let's bring in harvard law professor randall kennedy. he is the offer of four discrimination, race, affirmative action and the law. also former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman the supreme court today, rejecting race based affirmative action in college admissions first we have

madison -- she's a college graduate has fight in the college admissions case. madison, thanks so much for being here -- i now incredibly personal this decision's view, because you testified in trial about your experience of being a black student at harvard. so tell us your reaction to this decision. >> first of all, thank you so much for having me. i was talking to a family member today, about how i've had about five years to prepare for this decision, with the expectation that it would come down this way. and i am still so saddened. i'm still pretty heartbroken about it. when i think about the ways that my experience would have been limit, it hadn't had the opportunity to be around a diverse student body. when i think about the losses that future black and brown students will face, looking forward, it's just pretty heartbreaking to me. >> describe escaping.

i will read one of. them is from justice ketanji brown jackson. with let them eat cake obliviousness today. the majority pulls the record and announces color blindness for all by legal fiat. that is her dissent in the u.n. see case. quote, deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. >> she didn't read her dissent from the. bench but the other one, so to my or dead. as doug roberts. and when you get to the core there allison. because last year, the blockbusters decision. also a wrecking ball of demolishing many years of precedent. was a fight about the meaning of a single case. this revealed a divide, not just about the meaning of the law, not just about the meaning of a case but about world

views. and so, the ultimate criticism that the dissent is leveling is you do not understand the world. you are sort of blind, the principal, the way to -- it is superficial and word. and you just, it has to be, you have to take inequality into account in order to achieve equality. and that position, as the professor says, is going to be litigated in fine grain for years probably. and to the extent that the court has this suggestion we put an end to this, it will find it very much otherwise i think. >> professor, as you well know, one of the precedents for affirmative action standing was this 2003 case in which the supreme court ruled that colleges could consider race to achieve educational diversity. and from the majority in that

case, justice sandra day o'connor said she expected quote, 25 years from now, meaning the year 2028, that use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary. and quote. so of course that has not happened yet. so did affirmative action work at harvard the way it was intended and beyond? >> i think affirmative action has been working in the sense that it has helped to desegregate the upper echelons of american society. including selective universities. i think affirmative action to a large extent has been a positive force in american life. and a success story in american life. and i think that is one of the reasons why many people are very disappointed and very angry in fact at what the supreme court has done. >> harry, i know you alluded to this but in the minute we have left, can you just explain how this is going to put colleges and universities into these

legal quagmire? >> the truth is that we don't. no but the little excerpt you read at the end allison. you are going to have an industry, it's ironic, of people writing us is stressing the unit dimensional racial identity. with the exacting the court does not want. by any manner of strategy, is because the bottom line, harvard and selective universities cannot, return will not return to a 1950s asean harry world. they will do what is necessary to make that not happen. >> professor randall kennedy, harry lippman, thank you both very much for your expertise. >> thank you professor. >> next, i will speak with two students involved in today's decision disagree on whether affirmative action helped or hurt them.

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>> supreme court today rejecting race based affirmative action in college admissions. let's talk to students on both sides of this issue. first, we have madison trice. a harvard graduate who testified in the harvard admissions case. madison, thank you so much for being here. i know how incredibly personal this decision is to you. because you testified at trial about your experience of being a black student at harvard. so tell us your reaction to the decision. >> cristobal, thank you so much for having me. i was talking to a family member today about how i have had about five years to prepare for this decision. with the expectation that it

would come down this way. and i am still so sad. i am still pretty heartbroken about it. when i think about the ways that my experience would have been-limited had i not had the opportunity to be around a diverse student body, when i think of the losses that future black and brown students will face, looking forward, it is just pretty heartbreaking to me. >> let me try to share with you some of justice clarence thomas 's logic. in doing, he said he wanted to end affirmative action. and he wrote for a memo majority opinion that quote, it is youth should not shoulder the moral debts of their in sisters. saying racialism, simply cannot be undone by different or more racialism. so what do you think of his logic? >> i think that logic is at a very basic level, disingenuous. and i think that he is aware of that. because he has made it his mission to dismantle affirmative action or holistic

emissions for sometime. but i know personally that it is not racialism. it is not additional discrimination. the way that the school i attended was allowed to consider my race, was actually a proxy for considering the discrimination and oppression i have faced on my way to harvard. i know that there was a lot of additional labor that i had to do whether it was in terms of reinventing the wheel and teaching myself certain things other students were learning by being an all white study groups. or trying to uplift different ways of learning. and tutoring younger students that they would not have to go through what i went through. to ensure they would have opportunities, particularly black and brown students at my high school. or even just the struggles of trying to convince teachers to allow me to hold clubs. or allow me to partake in certain opportunities. that i was denied. and on doctors were not denied. all of those things happened to me. and on top of, that i know i

had to balance the concurrent responsibilities of being one of the only black students in my classes. a lot of the time, representing my whole community and being held to the task for that. and in doing all of that, i still had to get grades that were good enough for harbor to see me. being able to consider my race and my story, is how i believe harvard was able to see me without overlooking me. and i think that any judgment that does not take that into account, it is pretty thinly veiled as an attempt to ensure. but i -- there's less diversity in college campuses. >> that is all interesting to hear madison, because we are about to speak to a student from the group that launched this lawsuit. he says asian americans were denied admission to harvard. though they had celebrates as well. simply because the check the box and said asian. what do you say to the people who believe that asian students

have gotten the raw and of affirmative action? >> i think my perspective would be that asian americans are also students of color. they are not exempt from discrimination. being able to check a box that says hey, this is my race, allows you to imply that you have experienced racial discrimination for that experience. allows people to take into account ways that other people might have been biased towards you. with regards to your background, whether that was in the interviews process or in terms of teachers and administrators. and asian american students also benefit from affirmative action. also benefit from a holistic admissions. and it has been demonstrated that certain asian american student groups will actually see a decrease in rates of attendance. under groups are already underrepresented. if they do not have opportunity to articulate the fullness of their story. mostly though, i can speak to my experience and say that i know what is important for the

diversity of the student body. >> and you've done that tonight, madison, thank you very much for sharing your reactions to this as we have said. personal decision for you. we appreciate you being here. >> thank you so much for having me, i really appreciate it. >> now let's go to calvin yang, he is the member of the students for fair admission group that shared harvard and unc to end affirmative action. thank you so much for being here. i know that you've just listened to that interview we did. so what is your response to the win for your group today? >> first of all, good evening and thank you so much for having me alison. i think today's decision marks a pretty landmark win for the rights of asian americans in this country. because for so, long i think there has been a misconception associated with asian americans that we are the model minority. that we work hard, keep our heads down and do not really participate in a lot of actions, concerning standing up for our

own rights. so today is a direct testament against that. that i'm both very relieved and happy. >> what about what madison was saying, basically which is that yes, asian americans do represent people of color and a particular minority, so two blacks. i think her point was sort of that you should be on the same side, you should all be fighting for the same thing. that is to be seen and to have your life experience recognized in college admissions. >> if you look at statistics here, about affirmative actions, it goes to show that first of, all asian applicants were routinely marked down. because of arbitrary factors like personality, likability, and leadership. which has no quantifiable measure to measure those specific act tribute. and because of that, despite having average or higher than average ratings on the factors that harvard looks at, asian americans have a lower chance of getting in to harvard because of this.

so in that sense, it goes to show that despite affirmative action being a very well-intentioned idea, it's execution in reality's rather poor. >> what about this stat calvin, part of your lawsuit as you said, asian americans were being disadvantaged by affirmative action. but 28% of admitted students at harvard, in 2022 were asian. that is up from 20% in 2013. so how were they being disadvantaged? >> well if you look at it this way, asian americans scored asian american applicants tend to score higher. on standardized testing then the other ethnic groups. and also on par in current terms of extracurricular tvs. and the other attributes that harvard law. in terms of assessing its applicants. that is why i think it is still understandable that there is a higher percentage of asian american applicants and asian

american students who end up in rolling at harvard college. but at the same time, asian americans who have the grades, who meet the benchmark economic benchmark. for extracurriculars. where the other things harvard's look that. they still get markdown because of personality. so again, it is unfortunate reality. and i am again very happy that today's ruling helped to address that. >> president biden today says that he is concerned this one will make social and economic inequality more worse. can you be sure that it won't? >> again, i think that moving on from today, policy makers from all across the country need to explore alternatives. alternatives that are both race neutral, but also factored in the nuances of the situation this country is facing. for example, racial inequality and income inequality. for me personally, i am a strong believer and proponent of a socioeconomic based admissions system where applicants, no matter what their ethnic group is, if they

come from disadvantaged backgrounds should be given more of a boost at these elite colleges, in terms of admissions. so in, that way i think it definitely will help to even address a lot of the issues that a country is facing today. >> calvin yang, thank you very much for your time tonight. really interesting to hear both perspectives on this landmark decision. thank you for being here. >> okay, more trump insiders are speaking to investigators now. who are the, and what do they know, that is next. there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. ♪ farxiga ♪ and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect

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>> several developments tonight. in the legal case is facing donald trump.

sources tell cnn that a top trump campaign aide has spoken multiple times to investigators looking into the mishandling of classified documents. and, we are learning that a former trump campaign official is cooperating with his special counsel investigation. into 2020 election interference. so joining me now is cnn senior legal affairs correspondent paula reid. and cnn legal analyst jennifer rodgers. great to see you. let's start with classified documents. tell us about this campaign aide susie wildes. >> susie wildes is one of trump's closest aides. effectively running his third campaign for the white house. and a source tells cnn that she is the representative of trump's political action committee. that the special counsel alleges showed a classified map to. now this is one of the most shocking things in the indictment. that allegedly, issued a classified map to somebody who worked for his pack. now course it is shocking which are classified documents and some who doesn't have a clearance. but the other question this

raised is how do they know about. this was this somebody who in his inner circle, revealed the investigators. or do they know this from somebody else? we know wildes spoke with investigators multiple times. she was asked about it. but it is not clear that she is the one who gave this information to prosecutors. we are told that the trump team, that they were blindsided by this news today. but as of now, there are no plans for her to step back from her campaign role. >> that is really interesting. now paula, turn to the investigation into the 2020 election interference. who is that former campaign official who we understand is cooperate with the special counsel? >> mike roman is a campaign official who is now cooperating in the special counsel's investigation. it is interesting, because we know that he was subpoenaed. his cell phone was seized. as part of the investigation into efforts to to allegedly put forth a slate of fake electors. that plot has been something that the investigators have really been focused on recently. and alison, this all comes as we are seeing an uptick in activity in the january 6th

investigation. we have seen a flurry of new witnesses, including rudy giuliani and some other high-profile folks. so it does appear that jackson it could be reaching a charging decision. on that case soon. >> okay jen, as we say so often on this program, it is hard sometimes to keep track of all of this. but not for you. is there a pecking order of how these things will unfold? which one should or will go first, that we should be prepared? for >> not really. as you do an investigation, you tend to save the more important people for the end because you are gathering information that you will then used to question those people. so that in a sense is in order. but there are so many people working on this investigation honestly, the special counsel's office, that there are teams working on each of these i think. so it is not like in a normal case where you are having to prioritize the. i think all of these strands, the fake electors, the pressure campaigns. the fraud investigation of the campaign finance part of it. all of that i think is being done by a separate team so it is all being solved. >> there is also the fulton county investigation into

election interference. do you have a sense of which one, if the federal charges or that one will go first? >> we know the timing of georgia more likely because they have said when the grand jury from a day in july until late august. so that is a little bit more likely to be in that window. what is really weird here is that the doj did not tell them to stand down way back in the day when they started investigating a year and a half ago. that would've been the no more normal thing to do. but now that they've said go ahead, i think there is going to be a lid of a dance here. who's going to go first, what will that mean for scheduling and all of those things? okay paula, tell us what the grand jury in florida is up to, because they already indicted former president trump as we know from the mishandling of classified documents. so what are they still working on? >> well it is not unusual for a grand jury to continue its work after charges have been filed. we know that there are a lot of outstanding threats in this investigation. for example, we know that investigators were asking about possible gaps in surveillance

footage that they were given. also still some outstanding questions of exactly how the classified materials were stored. in bedminster new jersey. so today, when our colleague caitlin polantz reported that this grand jury is still actively, seeking information from witnesses, still investigating. it was not terribly surprising. because it is still possible that they could bring additional charges against someone else. or possibly a superseding indictment against former president trump, or his codefendant almada. >> gaps and surveillance footage, that doesn't sound good. the fact that there, are you surprised the grandeur used to work? >> well i'm not surprised if they are looking at indicting other people. the it would be unusual for them to continue to build a case against the former president because once you indict, you are then supposed to get to trial subpoenas. not grandeur isa peña's anymore. so i suspect it means that they're actually looking to indict other people, if the gaps of surveillance footage. might've been some of the tech people who are supposed to be responsible for the subpoena, that sort of. there >> could be anything. but i guess that they are trying to figure out what those

mean. >> all, in a different element, sources tell us that biden's iran envoy has been placed on leave. and his security career lauren says been suspended. what do we know about this? . this is reporting from our national security team but it is really interesting because he's been placed on leave without pay and this occurred after his security clearance was suspended earlier this year. there's been an ongoing investigation into the possible mishandling of classified information. now earlier this year the state department apparently ramped up its investigation into the envoy and his handling of classified materials. and it is not clear exactly what led his clearance to be suspended. there is no indication at this point that there is any criminal investigation here. what, again the possible mishandling of classified documents seems to be the team. of the past 18 months. >> yes it does. what do you see here? >> we don't know for sure. but also, this if you do something inadvertent, if they don't suspend your security

clearance and take you out of your position. so they are concerned about something, he was handled in a way that they may be intentional. and it's a good, thank you do not want prosecutors to have to be the first instance of learning about something gone awry. it is good the state department and investigators figured out something was wrong here and took him out of that position if they think he's a danger in that. way >> jennifer, paula thank you very much for helping us go through all of these developments. >> next, arizona's former house speaker is here. he was pressured by rudy giuliani, and donald trump to help overturn biden's win in that state. we will check in with him.

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switch today. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. >> sources tell cnn that special counsel investigators are now focusing on the plot to put forward slates of fake electors in seven states that donald trump lost in 2020. we are learning tonight that

former trump campaign official mike roman is cooperating with prosecutors in that probe. and according to the new york times, prosecutors have already asked rudy giuliani, trump's former personal attorney about the fake electors scheme. so let us bring in former republican arizona house speaker rusty bowers who was pressured by giuliani and trump to help overturn biden's win in the state. mr. bowers, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. can you just remind, you were pressured by rudy giuliani and trump and now that this is coming to a head, in terms of the investigators having spoken to rudy giuliani. can you remind us of what specifically they asked you to do? >> well first they asked me for a special committee. and i said to end. and then the committee was to find sufficient, and listen to the claims of fraud, et cetera. to have doubt and with that doubt they could use this idea

that plenary power for legislatures to throw out the biden electors and putting trump electors. that is what they were asking me to do. >> so what do you think rudy giuliani will share with investigators about this? >> i understand some of the things he said about our conversation so i wouldn't know. it would be an interesting conversation. i would love to hear. >> so would we all. >> but what has he shared about your conversation? >> well i just met with he and trump. i got the email just before testifying to the january 6th committee that i had said yes, that actually it was rigged and he really won. and yada yada yada. and obviously that didn't happen and i said. so and i have heard giuliani had made similar statements about things. but he needs to be more careful because he talked a lot more

people. in our state. a lot of people in the same time. in meetings, with me. so it will be interesting. and i just hope he tells the truth. well that would be that the best thing. >> we've also learned that former trump campaign official mike roman is cooperating with the special counsel. did you ever interact with him? >> i never did interact with rome. mine was with boris epshteyn. that was one i interacted with. and then ellison and giuliani in meetings. they're in arizona. >> so i don't have to tell you, this investigation has gone on for more than two years. what has all of this done to your life and career in watching it come to something of a head now? >> well, all of this effectively ended my political career. which is not a bad thing. i mean i get to do a little bit of what i like to do. and be with my family. and pursue other things and i

am very busy in the water field. but it was very hurtful and harmful to my family, my wife. and our children. and i just hope that it will end. and i would like to see justice done but i am not on the jihad. i would just like to see justice done. >> what would that look like? >> that would look like the truth. and people to say yes, we did that. it would be wonderful if they said i apologize. we blew it. and i don't think that will happen. but i would like to have a justice for everyone. all kinds of things are happening in the country. people are really confused. and upset. i would like to see some calm. in lessening of contention. i don't know how that happens. but maybe it can start with me. in my home. and we'll push from the.

>> well we hope that for you. rusty, bowers thank you for your, we appreciate talking to. >> thank you very much. >> parkland school resource officer found not guilty today after he stayed outside during the mass shooting inside of marjory stoneman douglas high school. next, i will speak with the mother of a teacher who died saving students. (vo) when someone is diagnosed with cancer, they need support. subaru and our retailers are there to help... by providing blankets for comfort and warmth and encouraging messages of hope to help support nearly three hundred thousand patients facing cancer nationwide. we call it “the subaru love promise.” and we're proud to be the largest automotive donor to the leukemia and lymphoma society. subaru. more than a car company.

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during the mass shooting. he was found not guilty of seven counts of felony child neglect. three counts of culpable negligence and one count of perjury. peterson and his attorney had an emotional reaction as the verdict was read. >> the state of florida plaintiff versus scott peterson defendant, verdict count one. we the jury find as follows as to the defendant in this case. the defendant is not guilty. so say we all this 29th of june 2023 at raúl county florida. >> verdict, count two, we the jury find as follows is to the defendant in this case. the defendant is not guilty. so say we all this 29th day of june, 2023 at fort lauderdale broward county florida. >> i want to bring in now, cnn chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller. also the mother of scott beagle. a geography teacher at parkland who was killed protecting his students in the shooting.

linda, i always appreciate seeing. you even though it is during often hard days. what is your reaction to the emotional reaction that has been hands courtroom? >> i guess scott peterson believes that doing nothing is synonymous with doing no wrong. he may have not have been legally responsible, not found legally responsible. but there is no doubt that he is morally responsible. there's just no doubt about it. and it is hard to have a reaction. he become numb after a well. you want and no he's guilty. i mean, why not. you he stood there for 40 minutes doing nothing. had he done something, something, anything, the murder would have never made it to the third floor. we've never made to the third floor.

all he had to do was divert him. for 30 seconds. i speak for myself. if he had diverted him for ten seconds, my son would have been able to close the door. i mean scott did what scott peterson should've done. my scott protected his students. he saved 31 students. from the shooter. that is what scott peterson showtime. >> your son got between the shooter and his students. and as you know. that morning right after it happened. i talked to some of his students who credit your son with saving their lives. that was real, what he did was real. john, let me just play you what scott peterson says that, why he said it wasn't his fault. >> listen to this. >> we have got our life back, after 45 years. because of mark. and being able to put the truth out of what happened.

it's been an emotional rollercoaster. for so long. >> forget that this is a mass count of a 14th. the only person to blame was that monster. it was not any law enforcement. nobody on that scene, from, besoco springs. everybody did the best they could. we did the best we could with the information we had. and god knows we wish we did more. >> what about that, that it was the shooter's fault. >> well it definitely was the shooter's fault. sometimes in these things, we lose sight of who the ultimate bad guy is. the question here about scott peterson's responsibility is, did he hold up to his oath as a police officer. and it's ironic that we are talking about this because last night, we were here on this show. showing the officer in allen texas literally running into the gunfire.

to stop the killing. we saw that same thing in nashville. in a another school. we saw that same thing in louisville, in the bank where a senior officer and a junior officer. the younger of which was terribly wounded with a gunshot to the head. as the senior officer then walked back into the field of fire and shot him. so when you look at this, case when you look at uvalde, you have to ask, what went wrong there? and i think what scott peterson did at trial, is his lawyers were able to present different portions of the radio tape. present the idea he thought the gunman was outside at the point and not inside. and diverts the idea of being guilty of cowardice or forsaking his own oath of being guilty of confusion. in a high tense situation. with the jury looking for is not we can improve, but is there a reasonable doubt about, and this is the hard part, not just reasonable doubt about the evidence but reasonable doubt about what was in his mind.

>> yeah. , so it's been years, and still trials are going on. and i know that every single one of them tears a piece of all of the victims, families, hearts out. is it getting easier each day or each year or is it just as role as the day that we were all together when it first happened? >> it just pulled this cabaret off again. it doesn't ever get easier some days are easier than others. but this just ripped the scab right off. i was not in the courtroom, but it was certainly on my computer at work. they in, they are listening to the trial and hearing the medical examiner again talk about, i actually learn something more from the medical examiner about what the bullets did when they entered my son's body. and so on and so forth. that didn't even get during the actual trial. from the medical examiner talking. it just, the wound doesn't

heal. and this is just wrong. it's just wrong. it's like you said, it's just wrong. it takes one juror, that's all. i am not voting the justice system, the legal system. sometimes it's not quite just, it's a legal system, but sometimes not just quite just. >> understood. and that is horrible. it's horrible that not only do you have to relive it but that you cannot even brace yourself knowing that you are about to hear something horrible that you had never heard before. i didn't know that. and listening to scott peterson after the verdict, when he came out to do his interview, and i believe his words were, i got my life back. can you give me my son's life back? i mean, what more can i say. >> thank you very much for being here, we always appreciate talking to you. john, thank you for giving us the law enforcement perspective on this horrible tragedy. we have got much more live

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