the supreme court, ruling 6- 3, today, to end affirmative action in college admissions. this is a decision being described is a generational shift that will alter the way that colleges and universities have operated for decades. cnn justice correspondent jessica schneider has more on today's landmark ruling. >> reporter: the supreme court's during a protest by getting affirmative action, citing colleges and universities can no longer rely on race in the admissions process, but prospective

students are still allowed to talk about how the race has shaped their experiences in their applications. b6-three opinion written by chief justice john roberts will now prohibit students from checking a box indicating their race, specifically saying the practice at harvard and university of north carolina cannot be reconciled with a guarantee from the equal protection clause. the majority not exquisitely saying they are overruling more than four decades of precedent which allowed affirmative action but the three liberal justices writing, today, this court stands in the way and rolls back decades of precedent and momentous progress. >> i'm most worried about the youth, and students younger than us and has gone middle school and a limited school who may not get the same opportunity that i did. >> reporter: the two cases were brought by the groups, students for their admissions, led by activist edward bloom, who has fought for nearly a decade to illuminate affirmative action. >> classifying students by race and ethnicity, treating them different, because of their race and ethnicity, it is unfair. >> at the forefront of the

harvard fight, asian students, who argue they were disadvantaged because of harvard prioritized other minorities and used a personal rating score which did not rank them favorably. the issue is deeply personal, to justice sonia sotomayor, the first woman of color on the supreme court. she issued a fiery descent, accusing the majority of employing an unjustified exercise of power that will only serve to highlight the courts own impotence in the face of an america whose cries for equality resound. justice sotomayor has been outspoken in the past, saying other methods to ensure diversity will not work. >> it is not that i don't believe it works, i don't think the statistics show it works. >> when california banned affirmative action in 1996, uc berkeley said black and hispanic presentation on the campus dropped by 50%. >> reporter: justice clarence thomas, one of two black justices on the high court, spoke in personal terms, too, saying that he believes the constitution is colorblind.

while i am painfully aware of the social and economic ravages which have fallen my race and all who suffer dissemination, i hold out enduring hope that this country will live up to its principles, that all men are created equal, or equal citizens, and must be treated equally before the law. justice ketanji brown jackson, the first black woman on the court, pushed back in a separate dissent, bashing the majority opinion, as exuding a let them eat cake obliviousness, and said, deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. >> reporter: the supreme court saying that u.s. military service academies can continue to take race into consideration, as a factor in admission, essentially exempting military schools from this ruling. this was spelled out in a footnote in the majority opinion , but justice ketanji brown jackson, calling this out in a dissent, saying that the court is essentially prioritizing diversity in the bunker, versus the board room. jessica schneider, cnn, washington.

let's bring in richard kahlenberg, he is a nonresident scholar at georgetown university, and he was an expert witness for the student group involved in bringing the lawsuits against harvard and unc. richard, thank you for being here. tell us your reaction to this decision? >> well, i think that this is a win for working-class students and poor students. the reason i say that is, right now, the system of using race in admissions tends to benefit wealthy students of all races. so, at harvard, 71% of the students who are black hispanic and native american come from the top socioeconomic fit of the population of those populations. overall, there are 15 times as many wealthy students, as low income students, at both harvard and the university of north carolina. with this decision will do will make it harder for places like

harvard or unc to purchase racial justice on the cheap. if they want racial diversity, they instead will have to recruit and admit and enroll working-class students of all races, a disproportionate share of whom are black and hispanic. i mean, it is no accident, given our history of racial oppression in this country, that black and hispanic students are disproportionately low income, and low wealth, and live in high poverty neighborhoods. they will disproportionately benefit from a new system of class-based effort of action. >> i am interested in those numbers you are citing because, i thought, there are more poor whites in the u.s., then poor blacks. so, how will it advantage low income black students more? >> it really depends on how you define it socioeconomic is a vantage. so, you are right, there are more whites, by income level,

then there are, poor blacks or poor hispanics. however, what that misses is the fact that when you look at students of the same income, black students attend to live in much higher poverty neighborhoods than low income whites. there is also a huge wealth component, gap that exists in america. it is related to segregation, and slavery, and the history of redlining in this country. and, so, even if you look at students of the same income level, black and hispanic students have -- come from families with lower levels of wealth, or net worth, and so, if you count those additional factors, in addition to income, that is when you see greater levels of racial diversity. it is the fair thing to do. we should count wealth and we should count our neighborhood, because those predicted opportunity in america, and when you look at those factors,

that is when you really see a racial dividend, if you will, from last-based affirmative action. >> president biden spoke out against the court's decision today, calling for a new way of assessing applicants. here he is. >> what i propose, the consideration is a new standard, where colleges take into account the adversity a student has overcome when selecting among qualified applicants. let's be clear, under this new standard, just as was true under the earlier standard, students first have to be qualified applicants. they need the gpa and test scores to meet the school's standards. once the test is met, then adversity should be considered, including a students lack of financial needs, because we know too few students with low income families, whether they are in big cities or rural communities, get an opportunity to go to college. >> richard, holger thought, i also want to bring in elliot williams with me in studio, one

of our legal experts, what do you think of that argument richard makes, and that president biden touched on? >> i think it is undeniable that income, and one's access to wealth early in life has some impact on where a person might go later on. something we are not talking -- there's a couple things we are not talking about in this discussion which is, number one, first-generation students going to college, even setting aside the question of the family's wealth, so much can be done to improve diversity on college campuses by bringing in first-generation students whose parents did not go to college in the first place. the other thing lost today, allison, and this is important, is what this means for gender, which is, if you consider the fact that we can stipulate that colleges and universities are going to get less divers on a racial level in the coming year or two or however long it is, consider that -- i think it is two thirds of the black students on college campuses, now, art women. and, if you are limiting the number of black students on campus, you are, in effect,

limiting or reducing the number of women on campus, and that is, itself, an offshoot getting lost in the discussion of the legality today. >> richard? your thoughts? >> completely agree that first- generation college students deserve a break, and that is a part of what i have long advocated for. i think it is the fair thing to do, and it will proportionately benefit black and hispanic students. on the question of gender, i think that is an interesting point, if you do class-based affirmative action in a robust way, in a fair way, then you should not see declines in black and hispanic presentation. i mean, we know from many universities that had to stop using race because of other initiatives, that when they design admissions appropriately they can get racial diversity. therefore, i don't think we'll see a decline in black representation. particularly, again, if you

look at wealth, i cannot emphasize that enough, there is a huge wealth gap in this country which reflects our history of racism, and that has got to become an important factor in college admissions. >> yes, richard, that point, is it your contention that legacy should be done away with? that is a holdover which is no longer serving colleges? >> absolutely. back in 2010, i edited a book called affirmative action for the rich about legacy preferences, and those preferences were hard to justify back then, today, they are really hard to square with a sense of fairness, because, those preferences go to students who have had all sorts of appendages in life. they are the least deserving of an extra break, and we saw in some states where they eliminated these, places like uc berkeley and ucla, they did

soon after eliminate legacy preferences and i hope we see that across-the-board. i think that universities are genuinely concerned about racial diversity, and so, that is one of the cases of low hanging fruit illuminate legacy preferences for wealthy whites and you will create a fairer system, and you will get more racial diversity. >> this does behoove colleges, having diversity on campus, students want that, it helps the student body. so, is it possible they are just going to have to get more creative? or, do you think this is going to cut into that goal? >> they have to get more creative if they wish -- number one, they have to define what diversity means but even when speaking about asians, there has been so much discussion about asian americans today. what you mean, are you talking about east asians? south asians, southeast asians? each of whom have different experiences in this country and different economic relations. all of the above. so, then the question comes up as justice roberts said in his opinion, someone can still write in a college essay how

their race had an impact on them going up. but, what does that do, number one, and how do you make that effective and functioning in a way that does not open the university of to a flood of litigation. >> i am glad you brought that up. we've had discussions on this program about how vague those instructions are. you cannot consider race but feel free to put it into your essay because that is your lived experience. so, you say that this could spot a cottage industry of litigation. like what? >> here's a great example. again, imagine a kid puts in a college essay, my parents are from senegal, i am black, i am also a champion soccer player and my dad have been to go to this university. right? there's a number of factors that are going to affect them, and maybe they consider that students race, right? so, has the school violated the law by thinking about this person's race? to the cottage industry point on this, i do wonder if you are a nonprofit opposed to the use of race in admissions, why are

you not suing every university over the coming years, to get the records of their admissions decisions, to try to figure out how these essays or whatever, information, zip codes or magazines of options, whatever they are doing to try to figure out what people's race are, why are they not suing them? and they absolutely could. cottage industry, that is my term that is a little bit cute, but it is. why wouldn't it be? it would be, i think, the smart thing to do if this is how you are aligned as an organization or as a nonprofit. >> thank you. richard, thank you very much for your perspective, really interesting to hear from you this evening. >> thanks for having me. joining me now is university of baltimore constitutional law professor michael higginbotham. michael, if race is no longer supposed to be a factor, explain what is going to happen on college campuses. >> well, we will be in pretty

big trouble in terms of creating racial diversity. it is a difficult time we are in. college campuses are going to have to adjust, because, there are three things they will need to do. one, they will need to recommit to creating a diverse student body. or, if they had not committed before, they need to commit now. the second thing they will need to do is to make sure that they take advantage of what justice roberts indicated, by hiring a lot more admissions directors, admissions workers, to look at the essays very closely. because, students are going to be talking about race, they will be talking about how race has impacted their lives, and so, they are going to have to have admissions directors looking at these essays very carefully, to determine how race has impacted their lives. the third thing, and most importantly, they are going to need to be creative. they are going to need to come

up with race neutral approaches , which the supreme court said is still permissible, race neutral approaches, and help to create a diverse student body. if they can do those three things, they might be able to offset this decision which clearly makes it more difficult for moderate income people to have access to higher education, more difficult for brown and black students to have higher education, and more difficult for those who have been left out. first-generation. so, it is a different time, and schools will have to react accordingly. >> it sounds like a tall order. professor, out of curiosity, what does this mean for historically black colleges? and universities. if race is no longer a factor, how does that affect hbcus? >> as you mentioned, it's on hbcu. the key instance there is

historically black. much of our hbcus are much more diverse than majority school these days. a lot of people don't realize that, but hbcus are very diverse. in maryland, our hbcus are extremely diverse. so, when you start thinking about how it is going to impact hbcus and majority schools, perhaps more partnerships between these schools can in fact help the majority schools increase their diversity, and, i don't think it is going to impact, significantly, on our hbcu, because they are already the most diverse institutions we have. >> that is really interesting, and not many people know that. may be other schools will take a page from the hbcus. thank you so much, professor, did you being here tonight. >> is my pleasure to join your. coming up, an armed man with materials to make molotov cocktails was arrested today in former president washington's neighborhood. we will have the details for you, next.

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a man was arrested today in former president barack obama's washington neighborhood with multiple firearms and material to make a molotov cocktail. according to law enforcement, the suspect claimed on an internet lifestream that he had a detonator. he also had an open warrant for his arrest related to the january 6th insurrection. get to cnn's senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe, he is the author of the threat, how the fbi protects america in the age of terror and strength. andy, this is gary obviously. do we know how life was was able to zero in on this guy? >> some of the reporting i have seen says that the secret service observed him acting suspiciously in the area, things like that, and they interacted with him, identified him and ultimately determined that he has an outstanding

warrant for his activity in the capital on january 6th. recalled in the metropolitan police department bomb squad to do a protective sweep of the vehicle, the van, and they found items you indicated. >> do we know how close he got to the obama's? were they under any threat? >> the mpd has said that they do not believe the obama's were ever in any danger. so, that does not give us details about how close he came to the residence, but, you know, some sharp eyed secret service agents are really doing their jobs out there and keeping it a close watch over the area, which is something that we should expect. in this day and age, experiencing elevated threats, particularly on the domestic violent extremist front, and we really have been, for quite a few years now, certainly in the post january 6th era. >> is it surprising to you that

this guy was basically a fugitive from january 6th? it seemed as though they rounded up people pretty quickly after january 6th, but not him? >> yeah, you know, it is a huge effort. they have over 1000 people charged and close to that many have been arrested. the effort of identifying people is obviously what initiates that charging -- you know, it brings you to getting somebody charged, but it's a real process to try to identify and locate these folks. i understand from the reporting that mr. taranto does not have a residence, he lives out of his van. he might have been here in the dc area for some time, living out of his van which makes him obviously a little bit tougher to find for the folks responsible for his criminal case. a lot of people have been arrested but not to the sky until now. >> thank you very much for all of your information. just ahead, development in

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new details in the investigation into former president trump's handling of classified documents. sources say trump aide susie wiles met with special counsel investigators multiple times and was asked about a classified map that trump allegedly showed her. tonight, we are also learning that a former trump campaign official is cooperating with the special counsel investigation into efforts to overturn the 20/20 election. to talk about this, i am joined by cnn political analyst colin hughes, rolling stone analyst jay michelson and we also have senior political commentator scott jennings, great to see all of you tonight. holman, this is so intertwined, now. it is not just people who worked in the white house, or might have witnesses, now, people on trump's campaign are involved in the investigation and special counsel is asking them. it is really quite a tangled web, at this point. >> very much a tangled web and getting worse and worse because

as we have heard in the audio clip, today, you know, one of the defenses trump wanted to make is, i was not really showing this classified documents, right? i was talking about them but i was not necessarily showing them to her. if you hear the audio clip, you hear him rustling around for 10 or 15 seconds and really seeming to be showing it to her. so, it is just going from bad to worse for trump from what we are learning. >> and by the way, this is a different incident. so, this one, with this new map, the classified map is from august through september. >> different map, different campaign. >> that when you were referring to which is the audio we have all heard that cnn obtained, the rustling around classified documents. so, it is not just one thing the special prosecutor is looking into, it's both. >> this is literally the house of cards. right? there's all these different people, the whole thing seems to be falling apart. it said before that trump runs

his inner circle a kind of mafioso way and everyone is on loyalty and so forth but that depends on shutting up and being quiet and being able to enforce that with violence or threats of violence, which trump cannot do. he does not have leverage anymore or power over these people anymore. it is all crumbling but there may be more indictments possible to bed mr. and the mar- a-lago documents. we don't want to make too much, people are talking to investigators and we don't know what they said or didn't, but nonetheless, i don't know if we can keep straight all the different layers of the skin. >> sometimes there are so many threads, so many different developments, that it is hard, obviously, for any voter with a job and a family to keep track. do they just dismiss some of these things? >> i think it could go in

either direction, there will obviously be the trump supporters with him, they are ride or die until the end. but, there are those folks in the middle who can be persuaded. and, it gets a little bit difficult to make the argument that you are just a victim, that you are just a victim of being politically targeted, when they start to see photos like all of these classified boxes in your bathroom, when they hear audio, when they hear your tone of voice and it is not interpreted or filtered through the media, or anyone who they can allege has bias, i think the truth, as it comes out, really does have power. we have seen in recent polls that more americans are showing support for the recent charges, many americans say they think that these charges are serious, or somewhat serious. so, when you start to crack away at support of those folks who can be persuaded, i actually think that people will start to feel like if there is smoke, there is fire. >> scott, former vice president pence was asked about that

audio, that cnn obtained this week, that shows donald trump discussing secret classified documents, or what he called them. here's how mike pence responded. >> the allegations in in the indictment against the former president are serious, but he does deserve his day in court. >> yes. >> this shouldn't be litigated. in the media. it should be litigated in a court of law. the president is entitled to bring his defense. i want to let that process work out. everyone is entitled to a presumption of innocence. so, we will stand on that presumption of innocence. >> scott, will be, at some point, start to hear his opponents use this to their political advantage? >> if there is any advantage to be had. most of the pulling of the public and voters but indicate they don't believe these charges or they think he shouldn't have been charged. even mike pence, in his cnn town hall before it happens said that donald trump should not be charged. so there may not be an advantage to be had, beyond

simply saying that you know, over time, if you have a nominee who has been indicted three or four times on multiple counts across multiple jurisdictions, maybe it is not the greatest political strategy for our party to nominate this person, because there is going to be a bunch of people in the selection who are doubled as approvers. they don't really like biden, they really don't like trump, but the pulling indicates right now they would probably lean biden, and they certainly lean to the democrats in the 2022 midterm, because of all of the things they know about, and will learn about donald trump. so, is there an advantage in it? i don't know. there ought to be, because if you are a republican and you want to win back the white house, those doubled as approvers are who you want to be thinking about. the idea that a bunch of people who do not like joe biden's policies might vote against you, as a republican, just because of all of the mountain of crap that donald trump has heaped upon himself. >> friends? stick around. just ahead, we do have more on the supreme court decision

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president biden denouncing the supreme court decision to end affirmative action in college admissions, accusing the high court of walking away from decades of precedent. >> we cannot let this decision be the last word. the court can render a decision but it cannot change what america stands for. >> let's bring in democratic congressman james clyburn of south carolina for his thoughts. congressman, thank you for being here. what is your reaction to the supreme court ruling? >> i was very disappointed. thank you so much for having me. you know, i think that what we have here, it's what do we do, to repair the faults that exist

in our system. and we know those faults are there. and we know what brought those faults about. i often think about the soldiers coming back from world war ii, the tuskegee airmen, we glorify them with movies, but yes, we denied them the via bill of rights, when white soldiers got the bill of rights. we have introduced legislation to deal with it, and so, that is affirmative action. what is wrong with taking affirmative steps to correct problems which exist in our society. when i went to work in the governor's office, back in 1971, it was affirmative action , and i'm not ashamed of it. i believe i was deserving of being there, but laws in south carolina kept my parents and their parents from achieving that. so, if the governor decides to

take affirmative action to bring me into the process, i don't understand clarence thomas saying that. he doesn't honor his mothers and fathers when he says things like that. >> we all understand the goal of affirmative action admissions was to try to help level this very unequal playing field. but, black student enrollment has been steadily falling over the past decade, even before this. so, do you think that affirmative action in colleges has worked the way it was intended? >> it did for a long time. in recent years, it has not been working, because the supreme court has been chipping away at it for a long time. they have just completed the task with this ruling but we know that what happened in california seven years ago, when it dropped down to almost 1% with black enrollment in colleges and universities, and the same thing happened at university of michigan.

this time, the university of north carolina and auburn will complete the task in other areas as well. elections have consequences. we have messed around and allowed 45 to get elected. and those three people that we expect them to deliver. >> one argument is that the goal is to create a more level playing field, it needs to start in kindergarten, not college. so, really, the attention should be in trying to increase funding for you now, k-12 schools that are majority black, rather than having the colleges make up for all of this. >> we do. elementary and secondary education. that was in

president johnson's great society program. they were against that. that's what headstart was about. they were against that. all of these things that were brought on were for this purpose and they are still, in law, they are underfunded, and people are doing anything necessary to try to get rid of them. we can do both, there is no question. we have young people graduating from high school, straight a's, many of them go to college, straight a's, they still cannot get into a professional school because of their skin color, and sometimes, their gender. we know that we need to do better. >> congress and james clyburn, thank you very much for sharing your feelings and insights with us tonight. to see you. >> thank you for having me. up next, the panel is back with their thoughts on the impact of the supreme court's decision to end affirmative action in college admissions.

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- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. president biden speaking out against today's decision by the supreme court to end affirmative action. >> i think it may do too much harm, but, i think if we start the process of trying to expand the court, we are going to politicize it, maybe forever, in a way that is not healthy. >> that you can get back? >> that we can't get back. and look, maybe this is just the optimist in me, i think that

some of the court are beginning to realize their legitimacy is being questioned in ways it had not been questioned in the past. >> my panel is back with me. natosha, let's talk about affirmative action and what was decided today. it seems like the supreme court might be relighting the feelings of many americans. the latest polling from pew research shows that the majority of u.s. adults disapprove of colleges considering race and ethnicity in admissions. by race, which they also act, the majority of white and asian respondents disapprove but 41% of blacks and 39% of this hispanics disapprove. >> i think that the polling, it depends on how you ask the question, right? when you talk about the phrase affirmative action and what is associated with it, or when you get specific about who it is supposed to benefit, polls

actually have different outcomes. and i also think that, it differs by generation. i think that you will see that difference in the numbers, with black americans in particular, because, affirmative action means something different to us. and, it is really frustrating, to me, when we talk about this and do not acknowledge the origins of how this happened. right? america broke its promises time and again, to black americans, then we would not need affirmative action if america had delivered on -- if it didn't meet emancipation with jim crow, if it didn't double down on trying to oppress black americans at every single turn, when the black americans just want the opportunity to participate as citizens and enjoy the full protection under the law that the 14th amendment was supposed to give us.

so the poll might reflect a lack of understanding or empathy which i think we see across the board when we look at these attacks on diversity and equity, there is a backlash that comes with progress. so, the court might reflect certain demographics that agree with the court's decision today but that does not mean it is morally right and it does not mean that is it flexion of the values that america says it truly stands for. >> coleman? how do you see it? >> the way i see it, i think people need a reality check about affirmative action. this is not a policy that addresses poverty, this is not a poverty -- policy that addresses disadvantage. this policy affects 1% of black and hispanic 18-year-old every year, we are talking about a policy for elites. this is not an antipoverty policy. okay? affirmative action has been

banned in nine different states going back to 1996, and those states have still been absolutely fine places to go to college as a black or hispanic students. >> the numbers to drop when this happened in california, the next year the numbers plummeted for black students. >> but the graduation rates went up. >> they had to do a lot of creative things. it was then beholden upon ucla to have to do -- invest money and do all sorts of creative things to get more black students back. >> but look, being a black person in any of these states, it's been okay. i don't think that the right way to address racial inequality is to punish asian- american students, in that way, in some roundabout way be paying black people back for the past. martin luther king talked about this in his book, he said we have to repair slavery and do that with class-based antipoverty programs. >> i think cole and i agree -- disagree a bit on this policy but i think where we agree is that those who support

affirmative action have lost a certain kind of ethical discussion in this country. there is a primary american value about fairness and on the service level, this looks unfair. and i think that those of us who have supported affirmative action before it was taken out in this case, this is not just about the universities obviously, this will ripple out into other areas as well, did not make the case that this is also about fairness and is about remedy because it became about diversity. and muddied the waters and what was the purpose of affirmative action? some people said it was this or that, and the court itself couldn't decide. in the chief justice's opinion today, he pointed out that there was not a single clear rationale from the last 35 years to this up in court about what affirmative action was even supposed to do. and the dissent and the opinion and justice thomas's concurrence had different rationales for what this policy was even supposed to be about. that suggests to me a real failure to define this policy in terms of justice. >> i agree with what coleman said about asian americans. what i find remarkable, this

case wasn't specifically about the dissemination against asian americans but there are a bunch of people out there today, politicians and political leaders, people who hold high office, blatantly saying that asians need to be discriminated against in order to make something else right, and i just find that to be completely abhorrent. the politics of this are very clear. every national poll, every major national poll i have ever seen, you reported on tonight, allison, shows that americans do not want this, they do not like it. they think that it is fundamentally unfair, and so, for a court that is often -- has its legitimacy questioned, this is the most uncontroversial decision of the term. this is the most lopsided decision of the term, if you just look at public opinion. i think they got it right by the law and also i think they got it right by the old famous kentucky supreme court justice john marshall harlan, who said, in the famous dissent in plessy, our constitution is colorblind. thanks to clarence thomas and the court today, they finally lived up to that.

i am led to the decision and every conservative i know is as well. >> i know you have very different perspectives and opinions on that, natasha, i get it. and we should say that harvard, the asian-american admissions rate has gone up in the past 10 years. thank you all very much, great to talk to you. we will be right back.

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