♪ good tuesday morning. elie and phil mattingly. breaking news throughout the morning. last night into the morning, we are following three mass shootings during a violent july 4th weekend. breaking had morning, the death toll rising in fort worth, texas, where police say three people are confirmed dead and eight others wounded in a shooting in a parking lot.

in philadelphia police say a heavily armed gunman wearing body armor went on a shooting rampage through the city streets. five people killed, two children included, including a 2-year-old toddler. >> investigators say the suspect had an ar-15 style rifle, handgun, police scanner and multiple magazines of ammo packed in his body armor when police officers arrested him in an alley. now, the hunt is still on for suspects in baltimore after two people were killed and 28 wounded during a block party. we have team coverage on all the latest developments and the former police chief charles ramsey is standing by. first, we start with danny freeman in philadelphia. danny, what more have you learned about the suspect there? >> reporter: well, we still have a number of questions about the suspect, especially the question of why this suspect decided to open fire. a residential community in southwest philadelphia yesterday evening. what we know is that the suspect is in his 40s, was taken into

custody. as you mentioned, he was carrying multiple weapons and armed with a bulletproof vest last night when he went on the shooting spree. we know how this started. it kicked off at 8:30 last night. philadelphia police got reports of multiple gunshots in philadelphia. that's in the southwestern part of the city. and when officers arrived they found there were multiple gunshot victims and also they heard a number of gunshots still happening in the surrounding block. so officers ended up chasing after the sound of the gunshots, they found their suspect, they chased after their suspect and arrested him without incident and without firing a shot. but i want read off exactly what officers found when they were able to make that arrest. he had a bulletproof vest, ar-style rifle, handgun, multiple magazines and also a police scanner. now, in the end the police commissioner last night told us that there were six shooting

victims, two children who survived, four killed, and overnight we learned new information that fifth person had been killed likely in connection to this shooting. i should say one other person was taken into custody. that person was suspected of picking up a gun and actually returning fire at the gunman. so he is not the primary suspect at this time. but again like you said, a chaotic start to the fourth of july holiday. a day otherwise philadelphians are looking forward to concerts on the parkway and celebrating the birth of the nation. once again, we are facing a shooting incident. >> we are talking about children being injured in the shooting as well. i don't know if the police said it, said anything, but what is the mood in philadelphia right now? >> reporter: listen, the mood is tense. shootings happen often in philadelphia. there is no question about that. but we usually don't see four or five people killed one incident.

i should also say last year on the fourth of july during one of the main concerts on the parkway there was a high-profile shooting. the theory was that somebody fired a gun into the air and a bullet hit an officer back on the parkway. so there is memories of that as we head into this holiday at this time. >> danny freem, thank you. >> we are going to bring in now cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former philadelphia police commissioner charles ramsey. i think holidays are always a concern particularly summer holidays are a concern for law enforcement. the details of this case in terms of the suspect who was arrested that i think are a little bit jarring this morning having body armor, magazines tugtd into the body armor, police scanner, ar-style weapon. when you see and hear that, what do you think about what actually happened here? >> well, another thing that's unusual with that is the fact he is 40 years old. usually, the suspect is a bit

younger than that. you know, nothing seems to surprise me much anymore. b one thing i want to highlight that the reporter pointed out, those police officers were able to take this guy into custody without using force, without firing not a single shot. here is a guy with body armor, ar-15, and we talk about officers use of force that really doesn't go consistent with policy. here is an example of officers that really, really did an excellent job and that needs to be highlighted. this is also just -- i mean, this is the world we are in now. whenever you have a large gathering of people, block party or whatever, you are always concerned about somebody showing up with a gun and just indiscriminately firing into a crowd and you wind up with dead people, seriously injured people, traumatized children, all those things. it's ridiculous. it's not going to stop. >> in your view, is this an

acceleration or is this -- i feel like summer block party type situations have long been an issue. i talked to law enforcement officials where they are concerned where elements of what you are vibing happen over time. why is now different or perhaps worse? >> i don't know if it's that it's different or worse of it's the types of weapons, ar-15s, and sem ought mattocks that spray a high number of bullets and increases the number of people that you are having to deal with that have been shot, seriously injured i was a chief for 17 years. we dreaded the holidays, especially in the summertime, because we knew that we were probably going to have an uptick in violence. that is not recent. what is recent is the number of these kind of assault weapons that are on the streets that are being used on a consistent basis. not just on holidays, but every single day of the year.

they are being use the. we talk a lot about, you know, guns and laws to contain guns. the one thing that's often not discussed some of these guys need to be in prison, logged up, off the street. if you use a gun to commit a violent crime, you need some jail time. and oftentimes that just isn't happening. they are being released back on to the street. they are not being, you know, held accountable for these crimes and it's not going to stop. >> charles ramsey, i want to bring in another person to this conversation. ed lavandera, who is in fort worth, texas. the shooting there last night left at least three dead, eight others injured. ed, what more are you learning about what happened? >> reporter: well, it's still early and we are trying to figure out what led up to this tick shooting. arizona you mentioned, 11 people shot and killed on the streets of southwest fort worth. you can see the remnants of the

fireworks and fourth of july celebrations that were going on here last night on the streets. but right now police say of those 11 people that were shot here, just before midnight central time in southwest fort worth, three of those victims have died. most of them adults. there is a juvenile who is a victim. but we are still waiting word from investigators as to whether or not they have been able to track down any suspects or what might have been some of the details and the causes that led the eruption of this shooting here in this neighborhood last night. but clearly this was coming on the heels of the remnants of a pre-fourth of july celebration here on monday night and police and neighbors here in this particular neighborhood kind of waking up to this particular news. we talked to a couple of gentlemen when live several blocks away. they didn't hear any of the gunfire going off.

many of the people walking streets this early morning trying to figure out exactly what all unfolded here last night and what led up to it. >> all right. ed lavandera in fort worth. appreciate the reporting. keep us posted. i want to ask commissioner ramsey a final question, which is, you know, should people be taking this into account when they go to fourth of july celebrations? i think there is always a concern of making fear a driving factor here, but like this is a reality. we have seen it. we saw it in illinois last year. is this something people need to think about when they take their families out to events today? >> unfortunately, people need to be aware of their surround ungs and aware that these kinds of things can happen. i don't want people to stay home and not celebrate holidays. but this is a new reality. but what people also need to do is put pressure on their elected officials to do something other than provide thoughts and prayers much if that worked, we would be the safest country on

the planet. if prayers by themselves worked. you have to have action. you have to have long-term strategies to deal with the drivers of crime, poverty, education, those sorts of things. if you use a gun to commit a crime you need to go to jail, period. there has to be strong consequences. we got to stop thinking we can save everybody. we have some very violent people on the streets of our city and they will continue to harm others until we take them off the streets of our city, period. this is crazy. we keep talking about the same thing over and over again and wonder why it doesn't change. it doesn't change because we don't change. >> commissioner, thank you. we will keep you updated on the stories throughout the course of the day. the race for the white house, ron desantis, mike pence, tim scott and other gop presidential hopefuls are hitting the campaign trail on this fourth of july.

omar jimenez is in merrimack, new hampshire, where three are set to participate in same parade. what is it looking like today, omar? >> reporter: yeah, well, look, you have presidential candidates in a march, in a parade, then you know it is campaign season and that is what we are going to see here today. merrimack, new hampshire, we have got a fourth of july parade where we are going to see florida governor ron desantis, south carolina governor tim scott, will hurd t north dakota governor doug burgum and more people over the course of the day to celebrate the fourth of july and also to campaign. what is more american? in iowa we will have former vice president mike pence and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. so all of these candidates are going to be out and about. when you look at the reality of this field right now, it really has been former president donald trump against the rest of the pack and polling has reflected that up to this point. the latest cnn poll shows 47% for donald trump. the next closest is florida

governor ron desantis and the spokesperson for ron desantis, for a pro-ron desantis super pac never backed down, admitted they are way behind in the polling, they feel this race is winnable, but listen to their spokesperson at what they feel has been a major factor in recent support for the president. >> clearly, donald trump is the runaway frontrunner, particularly since the indictments. that was not the case before the indictments. it is the case afterwards. a lot of folks want to rally to him. >> reporter: and even with that d dynamic they feel race is winnable. when you look around, there is a lot of work to be done. i came out here after former president trump was indicted in florida over the alleged miss handlings of classified documents. i spoke to some of his supporters just to see if maybe they would be swayed one way or another by those pretty damning

allegations. if anything, they were emboldened. we are going to see if they can at least begin to start making up some of that ground on in fourth of july. >> all right. omar jimenez, enjoy the parade. coming up, we will talk about some of the big policy ideas, it's not a big policy campaign so far, but there are policies that gop candidates are pushing including one that may actually be unconstitutional. that's ahead. how can n you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almosost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable se. shop now only at sleep number.

a single strand of mrna could change the way we fight respiratory diseases. and the company that's getting us there? moderna. this changes everything. on american's independence kay, the two presidential frontrunners are on a campaign to end a fundamental right afforded to people born in this country, birthright citizenship.

now, the 14th amendment ratified in 1868 after the civil war states all persons born or naturalized in the u.s. and subject to the juries 6 thereof of citizens of the united states and of the state wherein they reside. it was included to make sure formerly enslaved americans and desentens would be citizens. recently. governor ron desantis argued this, dangling it is a major driver of illegal migration and inconsistent with the original understanding of the 14th amendment. we will force the courts and congress to finally address this failed policy. >> this is something ron desantis and his rival former president donald trump see eye to eye on. >> on day one of my new term in office i will sign an executive order making clear to federal agencies that under the correct interpretation of the law going

forward the future children of illegal aliens will not receive automatic u.s. citizenship. >> something former president trump considered while he was in the white house. never actually moved to forward or tried to and that reality was in stark contrast to past independence days where we saw presidents george w. bush, barack obama presiding over naturalization ceremonies for new americans. you see it there in 2008 and 2012. our panel is back. elie honig and joe pinion and natasha alfred. i want to start with the legal here. the word original intent and the ron desantis statement i feel like has -- is intentionally loaded to some degree to try to make a point. for people listening to the text, is there legal am by gootee here? >> no. says all persons born in the united states are citizens. when ron desantis talks about

the original intent after the civil war, people were benefiting from that in 1868. people were coming into the country and having first generation here. that was the original intent. all of this, i want to make clear, this is constitutional amendment fantasyland. it's a political device. even if there were some meaningful argument against it, you would have to amend the constitution. here's what that takes. two-thirds of the house, two-thirds of the senate and three quarters of the states. the states have to call special constitutional assemblies. that is just not going to happen. democrats do this to an extent, let's get rid of the electoral college, life tenure for federal judges -- >> proposed constitutional amendment on guns. >> yeah, which will never pass. it's political posturing. i think it's important because birthright citizenship is fundamental to what we do here. this is a political talking point. legally it has no traction whatsoever. >> and even in 2018 when donald trump brought up this idea he suggested removing it through

executive order, right, which is something that you just can't do. >> you could hear the white house legal counsel like, oh no. >> right, sort of throwing their hands in the air. so it is a political tool and it is important to acknowledge that even when birthright citizenship was offered to african americans there was resistance, movements that wanted african americans to leave the country and to settle somewhere else. native americans were resettled, so to speak. so there is always sort of a push and pull in terms of advocating for rights. >> when it comes to kind of perpetual messaging, something like this which comes up several congresses in a row, who is the constituency for it? >> i think this is political posturing from the paralysis of our d.c. body politic and also comes from our refusal to actually deal with kind of the underlying issue, which we do have problems on the border securing the border which we

have a migrant crisis in the country. to natasha's point, this is a fundamental aspect of who we are. certainly you will alienate more voters than bring in voters with had message saying you are got to get rid of something that seems to be a sacrosank practice in the country. the remedy to implement this extrajudicial process seems to be legally dubious at best. i think all of these issues -- this will, if it happens, end up at the supreme court because we seem to have decided the supreme court is going to carry the burdens of society for politicians that refuse to do their job and deal with the underlying causes of these problems that americans are rightfully pointing to. >> when we talk about big ideas in the republican primary, i struggle sometimes to see where policy actually sticks out and is important and i am not saying that the -- i think that's the reality. you think back to the 2020 democratic primary and it was, i mean, everyone was going bigger and more progressive and more

dramatic in terms of systemic change on climb, health care, everything, and i think that was a reason joe biden ended up winning that primary to some degree. on the republican signed do you have a sense policy wise where the party is moving now? >> there iintellectual stalis. what happened with joe biden, candidates were talking about climb, talking about progressive issues on health care. in the end we reverted back to the norm. >> that's why i think he won. >> and you think part of the reason why you see a dampered enth enthusiasm for this trump versus biden rematch because the absence of unexplored idea at a time we need them the most, from education, we see the educational deficits widening. public schools are in crisis. we have a border crisis. so i agree that there is an

appetite from the american people and within the republican primary ato see that bold idea how we are going to deal with the threat of china. what is that bold idea to figure out how we are going to leverage the advantages that a.i. ask provide and the imminent f meant threats. and i think on the issue. climate, when you look at the policies put forth by a biden administration that in some cases make the earth a dirtier place, moratoriums on nuclear energy, people pushing back on natural gas when we know if we are trying to hit environmental objectives you need those tools to hit those emission reductions. so there is plenty of oxygen in the room for somebody willing to enter the fray and talk about those, but i think again with president trump sucking up all the oxygen, what you see on the left circling the wagons around joe biden and preventing from occurring, lots of these things

america is in dire need of will not come to the forefront. >> the theme with the ideas proposed about limiting, right, rather than expanding as we're welcoming in, it's about limiting. vivek ramaswamy proposing that we roaise the voting age to 25. not only is ridiculous, it blocks out a large number of young people, for example, in college who would come out and vote. it feels like it is an attack on the american ideal of inviting in and sort of raising the bar similar in the way to, you know, how jim crow laws worked to implement literacy tests and tell people that you could not participate in this process if you don't meet a certain standard. it's about blocking. >> no, i agree with you. and i think when you are these sort of bumper sticker slogans and birthright citizenship it undermines the meaningful discussion you are talking about with actual policy. >> natasha, joe, elie, thank you so much for being with us. we have live images right now out of tel aviv, israel,

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this just into cnn. live images out of tel aviv, israel, where a car rammed through pedestrians outside a shopping center. officials say the driver proceeded to get out of the vehicle and stab civilians with a sharp object before he was killed by police. we are live on the scene. what can you tell us right now? >> reporter: yeah, what's going on, there is a commotion because the national security minister, one of the more right-wing members of this israeli government has arrived on the scene to survey what's happened here. so we are in northeast tell veal and what we have seen here according to witnesses a car came driving up this street, rammed into pedestrians. you can see the truck behind the groups of people, behind the groups of people, the groups of police here standing, you can see the truck that rammed into the pedestrians, you can see that it damaged it quite badly.

according to police and witnesses we have spoken to, the driver after ramming into the pedestrians got out of the car and then tried to stab some of the people around before he, himself, was shot and killed by an armed civilian. now, the reason you hear a lot of noise here is because you have supporters and opponents because his opponents coming into today's -- yelling some in support, some in opposition. okay. he has called -- harder against who he calls terrorists, called for the death penalty for terrorists. what we know so far regarding the attacker is that hamas has claimed that attacker has -- one of its fighters. part of this ongoing operation in the occupied -- the israeli military is there. hamas called on all members -- called on all of its members to strike israel wherever they can much we have confirmation now

that this driver of this car who tried to stab pedestrians is a member of hamas. hamas the militant group claiming him as one their fighters in the last few minutes. it seems hamas praising had this attack saying it's in direct relation and direct response to what has been happening over the last two days. gener still an active military operation according to the israeli military and they say they will be there now for at least another day potentially even longer, guys. >> all right. take care of yourself. we appreciate the reporting. coming up on the heels of the supreme court's affirmative action ruling advocacy groups ta taking aim at legacy admissions at harvard. we will speak to one of the people taking actition next.

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♪ good morning. harvard faces a new challenge to its admissions program, this time over legacy seats. comes on heels of last week's supreme court decision to end affirmative action policies at colleges and universities.

in a complaint to the department of education, a civil rights group alleges harvard's process discriminates against students of color by giving an unfair boost to mostly white children of alumni. in part it reads, for the period of 2014 through 2019. acceptance rate for donor-related applicants was approximately 42% or about seven times higher than the acceptance rate for an applicant with no donor relation. joining us now is executive director for the lawyers committee for sufl rights and economic justice yvonne espinosa madrigal. i want to talk about this complaint. it feels inevitable given how people were talking about legacy seats in the aftermath of the affirmative action ruling. what is the goal here? are you trying to get back to the supreme court? >> thank you very much for having me this morning. and just to clarify my organization, we branded a few years ago, we are just lawyers for civil rights and we are

based in boston and happy to be bringing this important case on behalf of students of color who will be disproportionately excluded and affected by the recent development in the supreme court's ruling. last week the supreme court gave us a narrow but exceedingly narrow opportunity to move forward with race-conscious admissions at colleges and universities in the harvard case. >> i want to jump in here. were you looking at that ruling and seeing an in to talk about legacy seats? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. i am looking at that ruling and seeing that universities be going to go back to adjust what they are doing to be in compliance with the latest supreme court guidance. and in this new landscape it is critical to push for elimination of boner-based and legacy-based

preferences. it's 28% of the cls at harvard. if we didn't have more students of color would be there. >> in the complaint i think there is kind of six requests or six specific asks of the department of education in terms of an investigation into the admissions practices, certain declarations related to legacy preferences. is that kind of how you seek to resolve this? what's the pathway forward in terms of trying to address what this complaint brings to bear? >> the most important thing here is to find ways to make sure that students are not being assigned preferences, given bonus points, extra consideration -- >> right. but which ways are you thinking? >> with their donor status. with their alumni afill yags. that's how they are getting the preference -- >> i understand that. which ways do you want to try to address that.

six were laid out in the complaint, or do you want to try to take this up to a higher court at soum point? what's kind of the process here, i guess is what i'm asking. >> we are going to eliminate the ability of students to identify a donor affiliation or family affiliation so they can get brownie points to get into harvard. that's one fair. it's also discriminatory. currently in the department of education, if we are to do this work and do it right, we also have to keep all legal options on the table, including going into federal court, going into other advocacy and other types of protections that will allow students of color to thrive on college campuses despite the supreme court's best efforts. >> we heard from the yale admissions director a few months back saying that the government should not intrude on shape and culture and character of campus that they consider this opening the door to other kinds of

intrusion. how are you starting think about that kind of pushback from schools going forward? >> as the supreme court has noted, the importance is the ability to have access to the admissions process without preferences. that is precisely what we are doing here. we are taking the supreme court at its word. there should be no preferences. particularly preferences that run along donor and legacy lines which is not merit-based. let's be clear. your last name or the size of your bank account are not merit, should not be a part of the admissions process, yet nearly one-third of harvard consists of these students, students who would otherwise not be there. that excludes other students. it excludes even low-income students. it excludes students of clorl. we are talking about fairness here. if the supreme court is going to eliminate or significantly

reduce race-conscious admissions as part of a holistic process we need to assess barriers and structures that benefit white people and white affluent people at that overwhelmingly. it is the donors, the legacy affiliations which have to be eliminated if the supreme court wants an even and level playing field. we need to play fair and that means bringing an end to the type of bonus and preference that is given to rich students and students with family affiliations. >> all right. this is going to be a pretty important issue. appreciate your time, sir. >> thank you very much. now another story. a hidden camera system was discovered inside the women's locker room at the west virginia state police academy. cnn sat down exclusively with two of the women who say they were spied on. >> every female that has gone

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celebrate your milestones with custom gear. get started today at customink.com. the west virginia state police is being accused of fostering a culture of misconduct towards women in its ranks, including the placement of a hidden video camera inside a women's locker and shower room. the revelation in a newly file lawsuit. it alleges that male officers at the police training facility looked in on the women over a decade. cnn's brent green grass sat down exclusively with two of the we will who claim they were spied on. >> that's all i wanted to do my entire life, was to be in law enforcement. now that i have -- going on 13 careers this year, and i can't even view law enforcement the same as i have.

>> reporter: meghan and brenda, active law enforcement in state of west virginia, their dream job, but now everything is changed. >> i don't want my daughter to walk the halls of the west virginia state police academy. not unless there is reform from top to bottom. >> reporter: both now suing the agency that trained them after an anonymous letter written to top top state officials including the governor and lawmakers went public in february alleging widespread misconduct within walls of the west virginia state police academy, including a hidden camera system inside the women's locker room. >> i was shocked to hear that that happened. i was completely appalled. the more i thought about it, the angrier i got. sitting here today, i feel exposed still and i am constantly wondering who is going to see me next, who has already seen me? it's very nerve-racking. those thoughts are constantly in my mind. am i going to have to deal with this rest of my life?

every female that has gone through that academy, civilian or for law enforcement training, is a victim. >> how many are we talking here? >> there could be thousands. >> hundreds if not thousands. >> it's a hostile, misogynistic toxic environment, i it's anti-women. >> reporter: an attorney representing about 70 women who have similar allegations, including minors who took part in a junior program at the academy. >> i don't know how in the world many things could be much worse than that. >> reporter: the state doesn't dispute a camera existed. this is how governor jim justice publicly addressed it in march. >> there was three troopers that found a thumb drive and absolutely from that they found the video. and then from what i understand one, if not all, you know, immediately jerked the thumb drive out and threw it on the

floor and started stomping on it. >> reporter: justice replaced the head of the agency and pinned the act on an official who died in 2016. don't think he was the only one responsible? >> common sense tells you. it doesn't make sense. it doesn't add up. it feels like you are blaming somebody who can't speak for themselves. >> reporter: the team names three current and former state police employees they say are responsible for the recordings in a recently filed civil lawsuit. the first in what will be a long list of similar civil actions taken. at the risk you guys are taking to file a lawsuit while you are still working, what do you fear? >> i fear retaliation. i fear brenda and i are gonna have a target on our backs. >> reporter: there are two open state investigations. >> we are going to clean it up. >> reporter: where those stand unclear. we reached out to justice' office and the west virginia department of homeland security and got no response.

the state police said no comment. officials haven't reached out to alleged victims either. >> crickets. it's his heartening. >> it is outrageous. >> i feel like this hasn't been taken seriously. i think that there needs to be more investigation, more thorough investigation, and i think that we all want answers. >> reporter: cnn, charleston, west virginia. >> important reporting there. we also have a new retail survey that made in america means paid in america. why being patriotic is paying off. plus, we will bring you the secret to grilling the perfect burger. that's next. watch "the 4th in america" on cnn. we'll be right back.

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paid for by ccia. i think it's safe to say flags, americana, very popular on independence day. you have american flag shirts, pants. >> i do. >> where are these items made?

that might be more important. according to a survey, american-made products are having their best year yet. rahel solomon, why? >> people are prioritizing u.s. jobs, where they're created, where they're protecting american jobs. this report from morning consult essentially says that when asked why you buy american, that's what people site -- u.s. jobs. 65% of u.s. consumers say they actually prioritize buying american over the last year. what's interesting is that when you look under the hood of this, you see interesting trends among political affiliations, among different age groups. so republicans tend to be slightly more enthusiastic than independents and democrats. baby-boomers more -- more patriotic and spending more american than some of the other groups. what i thought was interesting is that despite the last year with higher prices which we've talked about so much, with higher rates, the demand for american has remained steady. really quickly, jason mcmahon who runs political analysis at morning consult said despite the

hit to consumers' wallets, that purchasing made-in might have america goods are due to costs, and those seeking out foreign-made equivalents has held steady. i will say there's a sweet spot, 10% is about the limit that people are willing to spend more for american versus foreign-made goods. >> stay with us. this is -- i've been looking forward to this. >> also made in america. hamburgers. nothing says july 4th like hamburgers on the grill. and so joining us here, of course, is george motez, a burger scholar, an official thing from the hamburgler university. talk a little about the proper fourth of july burger, what are the key things for what you have deemed the hamburger architecture. >> architecture is very important because -- first, we want to keep it simple. people tend to think you got to put a lot of ingredients, lots of condiments and -- keeping it

simple is the most important way to create a great burner. if you have to make a lot, you're talking about more ingredients, it gets too complicated when you have too many ingredients. this is important to make sure you're ready to cook also, which is important. you know, you have to make sure you have all the stuff ready to go so you can cook and make magic. >> wait. we have a -- we have -- a helpful tip there about what's going on. does it matter what bread, what lettuce, do you have thoughts about that? >> no. to me, you just keep it simple. fresh meat is very important. also american cheese, nothing wrong with american cheese. american cheese is designed -- engineered to melt on a burger. very important. >> the smash burger is having a moment now. >> sure it. people think it's a new trend. it's not. >> not at all. >> i read it in the book -- >> thank you. >> he's an avid reader. >> it's actually -- it goes back to the dawn of the hamburger. in the beginning, hamburgers were made by smashing little

portioned balls of meat. people think it's a trend. it is the original way to make a hamburger. it was designed based on speed. >> i was fascinated by the idea that you said it's the method, not the ingredients that makes the madness. you pointed out a poached burger. >> yeah -- >> which sounds horrendous. is that boiled meat? what's the situation? >> it is actually. think about it, it's cooked in water. water is a place in wisconsin called pete's. pete's, they take a ton of cut onions and throw it into the water. it's like an onion water. a poached burger. it sounds odd, but it tastes fantastic. >> it works? >> absolutely. once you have all the rendered beef fat floating in the water, you can't go wrong. >> i know simplicity is key, but what's the most popular burger? i'm not about the simplicity. i'm about the caramelized onions, the blue cheese, the mushrooms. let's put it all on there. what's most popular? >> for sure just meat, bun, cheese, that's it. then you can do whatever you want at that point. pretty much all you crave -- what i call the daily beat are

the one you return to is the meat, bun, cheese. >> we want to drag you into the culture wars, which is what we do here. there have got to be controversial toppings, okay? i said blue cheese. this guy gave me a hard time in my email. >> no, i'm not into -- it was the mushrooms. i'm not a mushroom guy. >> they're amazing. >> the honest burger -- >> my burger looks so much better than that. >> there's mine. see you, pickles -- >> to me -- >> what i have in my burger -- >> the ketchup. okay. give me with the deal. >> people like ketchup on a burger, that's fine. i don't like it. too sweet. it's what i grew up with. >> it cuts the blue cheese. the ketchup gives it that sweetness that cuts the blue cheese. >> fail. this is your maximalize showing. >> over the top. >> i want to ask before we go, if you're prepping the grill and thinking about making burgers, you said architecture, simplicity. is there any one tip people have to know before putting on their

american flag bandanna and t-shirt -- >> cooking over a flame grill is one of the hardest ways to make a burger. one of the easiest is on a flat top. if you have -- you're having trouble getting the burger temperature correct, i say take like a skillet and put it onto the grill. then cook -- you slide it off into the hot spot and the cold spot and cook it inside of a pan on the grill. you will not fail. >> you solved a lot of problems. >> the book is "the green -- "the great american burger book." happy fourth. >> "cnn news central" starts now. >> starts right now. have a wonderful fourth of july, folks. >> we did not plan that. >> we have style. >> apparently if i'm over the top, you have to be over the top, too. a holiday marred by violence overnight. three people shot an