the idiot that went in the caves with them, and i'm literally staring this thing face-to-face. >> but you did it for science. you're a scientist. >> yes, i did it for science. >> what causes more fatalities? >> you know how many average people die per year from shark attacks? >> i'm guessing six. >> in the united states, it's just one. >> oh, really? >> one per year in the united states. >> i was talking globally. >> in the united states it's just one. bees, hornets, or wasps kill 62 people. >> people have allergic reactions to them. the fact is when you look at this data, you shouldn't be afraid of sharks. there are going to be all these scary stories, but sharks are okay. >> and pbees are nice. bees are good. news continues, cnn prime time with kaitlan collins starts now.

♪ good evening, i'm kaitlan collins, the special counsel's january 6th investigation has been ramping up, and while we know that georgia has been a key focus, we hadn't heard as much about arizona until now. tonight there is new reporting that jack smith's office has subpoenaed the office of the top election official in the state as part of his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. the arizona republic is reporting that this subpoena came as recently as may, and it was seeking information on two lawsuits, one from the trump campaign, and another from the former arizona republican party chair, kelli ward that alleged fraud and errors in the election results. this also comes on the heels of reporting that donald trump pressured the former republican governor of arizona, doug ducey to overturn the election results, with ducey later telling a donor he was surprised that the special counsel jack smith hadn't called him. my first guest testified before the january 6th committee about

a call that he got from trump pressuring him to do things he couldn't do to overturn the election results when he was arizona's republican speaker of the house. and rusty bowers joins me now. as you are looking at this and we're learning about the subpoena to the secretary of state's office. what does it say to you about the state of this investigation? >> well, a, that it keeps going, and, you know, it appears that a justice, whatever that means on any given issue in america, grinds on, and it's taken a while, but it just seems to keep going, and ultimately, i hope that all concerned have their time before justice and i don't wish anybody any ill, but justice grinds on. >> have their time before justice. i mean, we're hearing about trump also pressuring the governor of your state at the

time. you also got a call from trump around that time pressuring you directly. had you ever heard about this call with trump and governor ducey? i mean, what do you make of how wide ranging the pressure campaign was in your home state? >> well, governor ducey not a pushover, and he is very focused on his job. he always was. we saw differently on issues. he was always very focused on what he wanted to do for arizona, so he didn't make me aware of it nor it hdid he have. he was spupportive of us, the petition from giuliani and trump and that in the absence of any proof there was nothing we would do. we would not do anything without proof, and he congratulated me for that letter, ibut he never mentioned his own call with the

president. i remember he did hang -- he didn't take a call in time when hail to the chief came on on his phone during the -- one of the certifications. so he wasn't a pushover, but i am surprised. it's pleasant to know that he also was getting it. >> yeah, you weren't alone in that. he did tell a donor that he was surprised the special counsel jack smith had not called him. were you surprised by that? do you think jack smith should talk to governor ducey? >> i don't tell prosecutors what to do. if he feels that there's information that former governor ducey has, i definitely think he should ask him. if it's pertinent information, he should ask. i'm not opposed to him asking. he doesn't ask me for opinions. you are. >> yes, i am. but have you been -- rusty, have

you -- we talked about your call with trump and with giuliani as you just mentioned there, they were both on that phone call. have you been subpoenaed by the special counsel? >> that's a great question. i'm hesitant to talk about any subpoenas, et cetera, but i have been interviewed by the fbi. >> in the january 6th investigation? or excuse me, in the effort to overturn the election results? >> correct. it was four hours of a discussion that they had with me. >> when was -- >> very professional. >> when was that interview? >> it was a few -- a couple of months ago, three months ago, about the same time frame actually. >> can you tell us what you talked about? i mean, this is news. we did not know that you had spoken to jack smith's team. can you talk about what you offered to them, what information? >> i offered them nothing new.

they seemed to have a good grasp on all of the testimony that i'd given and all the of the interviews that i had given to the arizona republic and people from "the washington post," they were very aware of the january 6th committee testimony that i gave. there may have been something that i said that was of interest, but i don't remember anything standing out that had not been mentioned before. >> did you turn over any documents to them? >> that i don't remember. i know i gave a lot of documents to my attorney, and i still have a lot of documents. i don't know if they're important or not. i have the proof, whatever that meant, that was the proof that i'd asked for, but it's hardly the proof that i saw. >> what kind of -- >> that's kind a joke. >> what kind of documents was it? emails, text messages, phone

records, anything like that? >> the players with the trump administration -- i want the names of all the illegal aliens. i want the names of all the dead people, i want the names of all the service people who had documents stolen, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and they said we've got them. we'll give them to you. i said that's the proof i need in order to have any semblance of the necessary threshold that you do something big. we're talking a year and a half ago, and -- or more, and that never came, but i did finally get what they considered proof, and it was a couple of letters from legal professors. it was a term paper from one mark for identification colleagues on this theory of law. it was several things that were entertaining is a bunch of tear

sheets for ballots were in the ballot entries and exits of the ballots in their 200 lot -- 200 ballot lots came into the elections officials. there was no names, nothing else, and so i -- tongue squarely in my cheek, i say it's the proof, and that's all the proof i ever got. >> i'm assuming they also asked you about that phone call with trump and giuliani directly where you said, you know, they called you after you had left church one day and were basically asking you to do things you said you couldn't do. >> that's correct. they did. we went over that briefly. we went over the next call. he called me twice, the second time frontal trump, and none of those bore resemblance to what he said i said in that email before the january 6th commission, but i guess he's a free citizen of the empire. he can say what he wants. >> given they asked you about trump, is it clear to you that

this investigation is focused direct lly on the former president, or what sense did you get of the direction of that investigation? >> i think it's broad because there's a lot of information about attorneys that worked with them, about mr. giuliani that made the calls and visited us and other members of his team, who they were, when the meetings were, what was discussed in those meetings or in that meeting, and so i presume that all of them are involved. how that shakes out as threshold evidence, i don't know. i just -- i just dabble with a paint brush. but i -- >> excuse me. we've heard that they -- that they were looking at other attorneys. did they ask you about sidney powell, kenneth cheeseboro, any of these other attorneys that we

know that had been the focus of jack smith, something they'd been looking into? >> mr. eastman s. >> john eastman. that we mentioned specifically. i don't know if mr. epstein is an attorney, but he also had called and i believe we discussed his phone call to me later, much later. >> can you refresh our memory on the call? because you were talking about boris epstein who is someone who is still often seen with trump. he was in court with trump in new york when he got teindicted here in manhattan. what was -- can you remind us of the nature of that call that he had to you. there was a bill that one of my former colleagues, mr. fincham had introduced into the legislature that he wanted me to hear, and it would attack the ballot outcome of the 2020 election and put that outcome on the ballot for the people of

arizona to vote on, whether they still felt that way or not. it would -- if they voted against that election, then it would be thrown out. that was the essence of this bill, and i said i'm not going to hear that. well, let's just say i won't hear that bill, and mr. epstein was trying to get -- convince me that that was a good bill and i should do it, and we had a -- you know, he had five or six shots at trying to find a pivot that he could get me to accept that it was a good idea. none of them were good ideas, and i wouldn't do it. but that was our conversation was just to support the fincham effort, and i would not -- i would not do that. i have a little more respect for what i do than that. >> did you see that as him pressuring you? >> him being epstein?

>> yes. >> he never threatened me in the least. kept asking what about this, what about that, and what about this? and finally i said, mr. epstein, we're big kids. i'm not going to do this. i'm not going to. he said, well, if i can get you the proof, will you? i said i c've been promised tha proof going on two years now, you suddenly have it? and he said, yeah, i got it. we can get it to you. i said you put that on my desk in the next three days, that would be an interesting piece of pile to see. make sure it's what i asked for. it's got the thing, and i told you what i got was, you know, some committee testimony from congress, a term paper, a couple of letters, and a bunch of tear sheets, all of which didn't prove anything. it proved that there were tear sheets. it proved that somebody had a hearing, but not the proof you need for doing something so

incredible as what we were faced with. >> do you think what rudy giuliani, boris enstpstein, any these other attorneys, do you think what they did rises to the level of criminal behavior in your view? >> i'm -- that's not my -- that's above my pay grade. i don't decide what's criminal or not. i think america can decide and will, and i think they did, in fact, and they may do it again. >> trump is -- >> i hope it doesn't go that far. >> you hope it doesn't go that far? >> yeah, i do. >> we -- >> i hope that i have a better -- >> we learned today that trump has raised $35 million in the second quarter. it's basically double what he raised in the first quarter. obviously as his legal troubles are piling up, he's still claiming he won an election that he lost. you say he effect iively ended

your political career. does he deserve the gop nomination? and if he gets it, would you vote for him? >> oh, i've already made very clear about that last point, very clear. the oval next to his name will never be filled on my ballot, and that's up to the party, if they think that that's what they have to do, then they are effectively throwing away a whole bunch of votes that will not -- that agree with me, and that's up to them. we should be wise. we've got plenty of great candidates to choose from, but you know, what a country. >> rusty bowers, making some news that you have spoken to jack smith's investigators, thank you for joining us. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in cnn's senior legal analyst elie honig

who was here with me. we wanted to talk on something else, but he just made a lot of news. we did not know that rusty bowers, they remember him likely from his january 6th testimony. he was the republican speaker of the arizona house of representatives, and he says he has sat down with jack smith's investigators. >> this is extraordinarily significant, for four hours he's met with fbi, and this means that jack smith and his team are looking at rusty bowers as a witness. that would be what you would do with someone who's not resisting you. you'd send out the fbi as a prosecutor, if he's willing to talk as apparently rusty bower was, you get as much information as you can. this tells us this is about more than georgia. this is the first and i think best indicator that jack smith is looking at this as a coordinated, multistate effort by donald trump and the attorneys who rusty bowers just listed. and i should add, he's a really good witness. i mean, i'm sitting here watching him as a former prosecutor thinking boy would i love to put him on the stand.

he's credible, he's relatable. >> what to you make about what he said about turning over evidence? documents, what he says he got when he asked for proof that there was election fraud that was coming from giuliani, boris epstein, and he says he got random term papers, some testimony from hearings. what are they going to use that for? >> that backs up bowers testimony, at one point when he asked for proof he was told we don't have any proof but we have theories. and where yrusty bowers can says what they gave me, and it's nothing. that is what we call corrob corroboration. there's document he is got from rudy giuliani and others that backs up a core point of his testimony the idea, i think what he said was notable, they asked about trump directly, the one with just him and trump on the line. also they asked about john eastman. they asked about these other attorneys around this. trump world is embracing for

indictments in this. does this signal to you that we could see those indictments? >> it's a step towards that for sure. i think it's really important that they were focused on trump. i think it's really important they were focused on those key intermediaries around him. it's really important they spoke to him for four hours. you can get through an awful lot of material in four hours. the fact that there are people who are now expecting and think it's more likely we'll see indictments in trump's orbit, that's coming from somewhere, right? normally prosecutors would be in regular touch with representatives of a defendant. it could be that they've been told something, they picked up on something. what we just learned, the fact that rusty bowers has spoken with the fbi is enormously telling for me and it tells me jack smith is looking at this in the big picture, and that he's getting to the most important witnesses and asking the most important questions. >> do you think -- we don't know jack smith definitely has not spoken to governor ducey, but the idea that as of recently he told a donor he hasn't, do you think that's going to change?

>> it would surprise me if he had subpoenaed the sercretary o state, and now we know that his team has spoken with rusty bowers, it would logically follow that you would absolutely talk with governor ducey. we don't know. this was just breaking news. it may be that that changed. i would think as a prosecutor, they would absolutely be on the same checklist. >> elie honig, thanks for joining us to break down that breaking news. also coming up, it is no longer a suspicious white powder. it has been confirmed as cocaine that has made its way into the white house. who brought it there and how did an illegal drug like that slip past the secret service? we'll speak to a former agent next. to the moments that matter. give them the nutrients they need with lipo. it's formulated with ingredients clinically shown to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and evenen hearing loss. never miss a moment with lipo flavonoid. like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food isimple. it looks like food,

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tonight secret service agents are combing through surveillance video and visitor logs conducting dna and fingerprint analysis all trying to figure out who brought cocaine into the white house. lab results today confirmed that cocaine was, in fact, the substance that was found in the west wing. this discovery of what we are told was a dime-sized bag, triggered so much alarm that the complex was briefly evacuated. this bag was found inside a cubby where visitors who swrt enter the west wing leaving their phone. the white house insisting they do believe they will get answers here. >> where this was discovered is a heavily traveled area where

many white house, west wing i should with even more specific, west wing visitors come through. it is under investigation by the secret service. this is in their purview, so we're going to allow certainly the investigation to continue, and we have confidence that the secret service will get to the bottom of this. >> we should note that at the time the drug was found inside the west wing, president biden and his family were away from the white house. they were at camp david. for more on this investigation, i'm joined tonight by former secret service agent eddie pom purr ras. the perfect person to talk to us about this. what does this information even look like? i covered the white house for so long, i don't remember this ever happening while i was there. but what does this investigation look like? >> yeah, so i also don't recall this ever happening as well in all my years working in the secret service. what they're going to do is, first thaey're going to take th package. they're going to assess whatever they can from it, dna fingerprints. the other thing they're going to do is look through all the logs.

the logs meaning who's passing through, who's coming in? people are supposed to be signed through. so some of the speculation is could it have been somebody there for a tour. if somebody goes in for a tour, they have to submit their names in advance. there's a protocol, and i've done tours myself at the white house. you're supposed to submit in advance, i'm bringing this person in, here's their name. here's their social security number. they do a background check on that person to make sure they clear. then they get the authorization to have them come in. assuming that was done, they will look through all those logs. they're also going to look through any camera footage. when somebody enters the white house complex, the outer perimeter security is the uniform division officers who actually assess people coming through. so all those booths, all that area, there's plenty of cameras on the exterior they're going to look at. who's actually going into the area of those doors. >> yeah, and so the doors are key because for those who aren't familiar, when you're looking at the white house, there is a door

off west exec, which is the road in between the white house and executive office building next door. there's another door that is probably the best known going straight into -- that's the side door right there, you see that hallway. there's another door going straight into the west wing, and so if you go in those doors, and it is near the areas you put your phone up. there's sensitive information. are there cameras there in those areas? >> that i can't release because it's such a sensitive environment. they're going to look through the footage. you do want to make the -- it would be fair to say that the more on the interior you are, there's less likely to be the type of camera system. if you think of it, it's private discussions are being had in there, national security, so it is unlikely you'll have anything within. look, this happened at the t exterior where people are coming in. that area where you showed, that's essential whether i all personnel come in through. vips, heads of state sometimes come in through there. we also have to look at it, it

doesn't in the chave to necessaa white house tour guest, it could be a staff member. it's somebody who has access to that entrance because the white house, even though it's a holiday weekend and the president is away, it doesn't shut down. as you note, people are working all the time and around the clock. there's traffic constantly happening through there. >> as a former secret service agent, when you heard this, what goes through your mind? because if cocaine can get into the white house, i mean, aren't there concerns about other poi de powdered substances, anthrax, something that could pose national security. >> the first thing that went through my mind was thinking who brings this into the white house as far as an individual, so especially if it's a tour guest or a staff member, i want to say this, if you're bringing somebody for a tour and you're the one authorizing that person, you should know who you're bringing into that. it's a sacred place. that's the one thing. as far as security protocol, i hear what you're saying.

you're saying somebody went through the perimeter check points, right? the security. these are magnetometers, this dime-sized bag, which is really small. that can pass through. somebody can hide that somewhere. you're not strip searching people. i understand that everybody's like how did this get through. we're not talking about a large substance. unless you want to start stripping people down, staff included at that check point, which i'm sure secret service is happy to do, that's something that will have to change in the pro protocol. >> do you think protocols will change? >> i think they will. what staff should probably do is start drug testing anybody to see if anybody hits as well. >> careen gianpierre was asked about that today in the briefing. you have insight on this like no one else really does, so thank you for that. >> thank you for having me. also tonight, the latest fund-raising ls nnumbers are ou. this is from the trump campaign. is the former president's

indictments paying off for him politically? we'll talk about that next.

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donald trump's legal troubles have multiplied over the last several months, but apparently so has the money in his campaign's war chest. a trump campaign source confirming to cnn tonight that between his official campaign and his save america political action committee, the former president has pulled in more than $35 million in the second quarter of 2023. a campaign source telling me that number is much higher than what they were expecting. it's also nearly double the amount that was raised in the first quarter of the year for trump. it comes as his team is argue that the two indictments have super charged donations from his supporters. jo joining me now to discuss is van jones and margaret cooper. is the reason you're seeing this number double because of the fact that he is facing all these -- two indictments and maybe more to come? >> it sure seems like it, you know, in marvel comics, there's

a villain that fights the x-men, his name is sebastian shaw, and the harder you hit sebastian shaw, the stronger he gets. donald trump seems to be the sebastian shaw of politics. the harder you hit him, the stronger he gets. the worse he does, the better he does, is iand i think it's beca the republican party, tribalism has kicked in here. even if he's wrong, he's one of our own. you're going afternoon one of o -- after one of our own. donald trump positioned himself to be a victim. i'm a victim, and now everybody's rallying around him trying to are protect him as a victim. he fully hates snowflakes, but he sure is a big snowflake, but it's working for him. >> i think it's worth noting when we talked about the idea of how much money this is, we asked the trump campaign how much of this is going to the campaign, how much is going to the pac? the reason this is important, the political action committee, that pac is being used to pay his legal fees.

not just for trump but also for walt nauta. do you think people understand this is potentially what their donations are going to? >> i don't know that people actually know that they may be paying for trump's legal fees, but i actually suspect that van is right, part of the reason he's getting so much support is because they feel vilified that he feels vilified. i mean, van said it does seem to be galvanizing support for him. people are voting with their pocketbook and people are supporting the guy who they feel is attacked. republican primary base, especially the self-identified not just republicans but trump supporters, do not want somebody else to pick their candidate for them. they want to be there to stand up for the -- to rally around the person they feel is being vilified, which is donald trump. if they're paying for his -- they're supporting the pac and that happens to pay for their legal fees -- and by the way, he's fund-raising on his legal troubles in a way there's a degree of transparency, evening though he's not saying had this is going to pay for my legal

fees, he is running as the guy who's being vilified. so it actually is as though he were advertising for support for his legal fees. >> and van as you're seeing how he's cam pacampaigning, not jus how he's fund-raising. he decided not to do any campaigning on the actual fourth of july. his campaign said he was spending the day with his family. what do you make of the typical kind of handshake on the trail politicking that we've seen other candidates doing versus how trump given he is a former president and has that platform is campaigning this time around. >> he's doing whatever he wants to do, you know. who's running for president that doesn't do anything on the fourth of july? donald trump. if obama was running, oh, he doesn't care about the country, he doesn't care about being president, he'd get destroyed. but trump does whatever he wants

to do. it could leave a little bit of space for the other people out there on the campaign trail and doing stuff to get a little bit of attention vis-a-vis each other. we're watching something that's -- there's no pl politician -- certainly i don't mean to throw an issue in here. i cannot imagine any politician who's a normal person of color, a female, anybody getting away with this type of stuff, but if you're a billionaire and you're a white dude, apparently you can literally get away with anything and it won't hurt you. i have never seen anything like this. >> i don't know, mike bloomberg was a billionaire and a white dude and he couldn't get away with it. i think it's a peculiarity of donald trump. >> if bloomberg had been indicted, i think he'd have notten n gotten negative votes. he got zero, negative 15 votes or something. i think for a lot of people watching this, it's like the rules don't apply to some, they sure apply to others. it feels bad. >> one of the other people we it see on the campaign trail,

margaret, was pence and he was talking about, you know, the fact that he chose to be out on the campaign trail, kind of drawing this line. he was in iowa, governor desantis was in new hampshire. do they have those moments to where it's not a full thing about trump, maybe it's just one day, but obviously, you know, pence is still being regularly asked about trump's pressure campaign on governor ducey, for example. >> i mean, a day off the trail does not a candidacy make or break. especially in the case for donald trump. look, mike pence he's gone whole hog for iowa, and he's actually not showing up there. he is showing up, but it's not really making a whole lot of difference in the polls. desantis has all the talent locked up, you know, iowans expect everybody there, to be there, trump does big rallies there. so i don't know if mike pence's operation and all in on iowa approach is zgoing to make a bi difference for him. >> obviously he is counting on the evangelical voters in iowa. van jones, margaret hoover,

thank you both for joining tonight. ahead we have news on that january 6th defendant who was arrested near president obama's d.c. home with a van full of weapons. he also a series of recorded threats against current political leaders, democrats and republicans, how did he elude the authorities for so long? [ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. it changes how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life. it changes your smile and how others smile at you. clearchoice network doctors have chaed over 100,000 lives with dental implants, and they can change yours, too. because a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation.

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tonight prosecutors are offering disturbing new details about the man who was arrested near former president barack obama's home in washington, with two guns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in his van. a memo that was filed earlier today says the defendant taylor torento began live streaming in that area shortly after he reshared a social media post from the former president, donald trump, where the former president posted what he claimed was obama's address. he said he had also recorded himself, i should note making threats against the house speaker kevin mccarthy, and also maryland congressman jamie ra raskin. cnn's national security analyst juliette kayyem joins us to

discuss the disturbing details. according to this filing released there, a's lot of details, but prosecutors say he showed up to obama's home shortly after he reposted the message from trump, which trump said was his address and he added this quote saying got them surrounded. i mean, what do you make of what you've learned today? >> so taylor toronto was on a h hunt, and he was given information that made that hunt easier. the disturbing thing about what was filed today was how long this has been going on. mr. toronto was there january 6th. they have a picture or an image of him. he's not just in the crowd. he has a cane that has sort of pa point at the edge of it. he then eludes authorities, and then by january 29th, not until january 29th, 2023, so just in the last week, that's when the indictment comes down. they are going after him

criminally for january 6th and then he starts doing all of this behavior. it's very performative, kaitlan, these guys, you know, the fact that he's live streaming it. he's reposting, they're very performative about their violence and threats of violence. >> yeah, and i think to fill in a little, the reason why they had trouble finding him was he was essentially living out of this van, prosecutors said, this van that had fwguns and all thi ammunition in it. in that time where he was just out, he had been making threats against kevin mccarthy, against c congressman raskin. he got into an area near an elementary school near raskin's home. what's the sense of why it did take them so long to find him, just beyond the fact that he didn't have a fixed address? >> right, it was the fixed address aspect of it, so they are monitoring him for some periods of time. it's the live streaming, it's the threats, it's him showing up at places. the evidence about the jamie

raskin interaction where he goes inside an elements ri ary schoor the raskin home and basically i want him to live in effing fear of me. he's very targeted in who he's going after. he then begins to live stream his presence in the area where president obama lives, and that is when the secret service is able to identify him, they essentially just finally see him and then realize it's their guy. he runs. the car is loaded with everything. it is not someone who is just there to make a point, with lots of ammunition the car is loaded. and then you get the arrest. so what we're seeing, actually, is just the information related to january 6th and why he cannot be let go out of prison. he's a clear and present danger to lots of people. there will be more evidence coming out about this particular investigation and how he got

animated by social media and clearly by what trump posted about the area that president obama lived in. >> juliette kayyem, thank you. >> thank you. also tonight, mass shootings are a uniquely american crisis, and they spiked higher on the fourth of july this year than any of the other days in nearly a decade. the staggering new numbers with a parent who has pliersonally experienced the horror of gun violence next. ingredients clinically shownth to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and even hearing loss. never mimiss a moment with lipo flavonoid.

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he left his home monday night in philadelphia to go get a snack and never came home from the corner store. he was the youngest of five siblings. he loved his family, his girlfriend, and his job. after this 4th of july, his mother's pain is far too familiar. >> some maniac walking around just shooting, shooting, shooting. for what? probably will never know why. you know? but you took my son. you took my baby. you took him. >> he was one of seven people shot by a gunman stalking the

southwest philadelphia neighborhood. five of those lives are now over. whether it was a block party in baltimore or shreveport or a night club in wichita, or a fireworks show in ft. worth, this was a 4th that left families across the country devastated. nicole hawkly lost her son dylan in the sandy hook shooting and is now the co-founder and ceo of sandy hook promise. thank you for joining me tonight on something that is obviously all too personal with you. when you see the spate of shootings we've seen in the last several days do you see them as resonating with the american public in the same way that a school shooting does or the walmart shooting we saw where the killer there is now on trial? >> i think, unfortunately, gun violence has become such a normal part of the american life that far too many people take all these shootings into their stride and even a lot of school shootings don't make the headlines anymore.

never mind the daily shootings. i mean, this weekend alone we had what, 17 different mass shootings across the country. we're hearing about some of them but not all and that is 17 more communities devastated. people need to realize this is not normal at any day in america and we need to be doing more about this and stopping it from happening. >> yeah. these are peoples lives. you just heard from lashad's mother there. when i looked at the numbers of this, you mentioned over the last few days of the july 4th weekend according to the gun violence archive a decade ago the u.s. had 118 mass shootings by the end of the 4th of july weekend. we are now at 354 which is a 200% increase. what do you think is driving that? >> i think a lot of different factors. even in the last decade we've seen a significant increase in the number of guns in the american market. gun ownership in general. i think there is also a lot of fear that is being stoked and

anger and people not able to resolve their conflicts or anger in more sensible, civil ways. it is just far too easy to just reach for the gun and take anything out on those you feel are doing something against you or your values or your beliefs. it is -- we are now in a war with our own country. we're not looking at it that way but we have this health epidemic we're not doing anything about and just allowing it to keep happening. there are people trying to make things happen. don't get me wrong. but we need more voices. we need gun owners to add their voice to the movement and say we don't want these happening in our neighborhoods and communities either. our children deserve to be safe. our families deserve to be safe. we need sensible legislation to curb this before it continues to get more and more out of hand as it already is. >> these are shootings that happened across different states

with very different gun laws, shooters using different types of weapons. what would something like that look like? i know groups like yours have had success in pushing for new laws but when you see the spate of this and the difference here what does that look like? >> we know that shooters give off signs before they commit acts of violence and starting to look at some of the news reports coming out now for example the shooter in philadelphia, there were warning signs so people need to learn how to recognize those signs and then do something with it like an extremist protection order or temporary transfer. that is a very simple legislation that doesn't strip anyone of constitutional rights but says if someone is showing overt warning signs or going into crisis and could be at risk of hurting themselves or someone else there is a court process for temporarily removing their access to firearms until they are deemed fit to have them back. that has evidence to show that it works in stopping tragedies

in particular suicide. safe storage laws. expanded background checks. these are all sensible, constitutional laws that would still help curb violence. i also think ghost guns, in school shootings we're seeing more kids access ghost guns where there is no regulation, no serial numbers to say where they are. you can just go to literally ghost guns.com and down load blue prints and start building your own. that is what people are starting to do. there needs to be stricter regulation around that as well because that is incredibly scary to every day citizens as well as law enforcement. >> thank you for joining us tonight. we'll be right back.

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♪ ♪ ♪ new double chicken chopped salads.

♪ ♪ ♪ new double chicken chopped salads. if ac/dc, guns & roses, and

eric clapton are on your morning play list you are not alone. you have that in common with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he shares that is the sound track that prepares him to cope with the war that he has been facing. >> oh, i like ac/dc, and ukrainian music of course i like ukrainian music a lot because ukraine is in the native language. you understand the music, the words, and etcetera. ac/dc i don't understand all the words because of -- i like the energy of ac/dc. i like eric clapton. guns & roses. maybe it is too old music >> i understand. we're the same. >> not too old at all. thank you so much for joining us. cnn tonight starts right now. >> ac/dc is good for everything it turns out. thank you very much. good