crocodiles. >> they kill,, like great whites killed maybe six people a year on average, i think, again, it's just by white people unable to. now crocodiles actually can we will need them. they kill i think at least 200 people a year along the banks in the oka manga -- >> you are more freight of crocodiles? >> i am legitimately, yeah, people should be. yeah, absolutely. >> what i -- >> i am the idiot who went in the cage with them without a cage or anything and there was like, you know, i am literally staring this thing face to face. >> but you did it for science? that's right. >> yes. >> you are a scientist. >> what causes more fatalities? >> this is the thing we should point, you know when the average people die per year from shark attacks? >> i think it is like six. >> in the united states it is just one. one per year in the united states. in the united states is just one. look at that, bees, hornets, swaps, these hornets and what killed 60 people. >> because of allergic reactions? >> right, when you look at this data you really shouldn't be afraid of sharks. they are gonna be all these scary stories. but sharks, they are okay.

>> bees are, as you can be afraid. these are good. >> harry enten, thanks, news continues, cnn prime time with kaitlan collins starts now. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm kaitlan collins. the special counsel's january 6th investigation has been ramping up. and while we know that georgia has been a key focus, we haven't heard as much about arizona until now. tonight there is new reporting that jack smith's office has subpoenaed the office of the top election official in the state as part of his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. the arizona republic is reporting that this subpoena came as recently as may, and it was seeking information on to lawsuits. one from the trump campaign, and another from the former arizona republican party chair kelly ward that alleged fraud in errors, and the election results. this will comes on the heels of reporting that donald trump pressured the former republican

governor of arizona doug doocy to overturn the election results, with a doozy leader telling a donor he was surprised that special counsel jack smith hadn't called him. my first guest tonight testified before the january 6th committee about a call that he got from trump pressuring him to do things he couldn't do to overturn the election results when he was arizona's republican speaker of the house. and rusty bowers joins me now. rusty, as you are looking at this and we are learning about the subpoena to the secretary of state's office, what does it say to you about the state of this investigation? well, that it keeps going. and, you know, it appears that a justice, whatever that means on any given issue in america grinds on. and it has taken a while but it just seems to keep going. and ultimately i hope that all concerned have their time before justice. and i don't wish anybody any ill. but justice grounds on. >> have their time before justice.

i, mean we are hearing about trump also pressuring the governor of your state at the time. you also got a call from trump around that time pressuring you directly. had you ever heard about this call with trump and governor doocy? what do you make of how wide-ranging the pressure campaign was in your home state? >> well governor doocy is not a pushover. and he is very focused on his job. he always was. we saw differently on issues. but he was always very focused. and what he wanted to do for arizona. so he didn't make me aware of it. nor did he have to. he was supportive of us when we first put out our press release about what had happened to us.

the petition from giuliani and trump and in the absence of any proof there was nothing we wouldn't do. we would not do anything without proof. and he congratulated me for that letter. but he never mentioned his own call with the president. i remember that he did take a call one time one hills the chiefs game on on his phone during the one of the certifications. so he wasn't a pushover. i am surprised. but it's pleasant to know that he also -- >> yeah you weren't alone in that. he did tell a donor that he was surprised the special counsel do you think jack smith should talk to governor doocy? >> if, i don't tell prosecutors what to do. if he feels that there is information that former governor doocy has, i definitely think he should ask him. if it is pertinent information that he should ask him. i am not opposed to him asking, he doesn't ask me for opinions.

you are. >> yes, but have you been, rusty, we have talked about your call with trump and with giuliani as you just mentioned there. both on that phone call. have you been subpoenaed by the special counsel? >> i, that's a great question, i am hesitant to talk about any subpoenas et cetera. but i have been interviewed by the fbi. >> in the january 6th investigation? >> excuse, me in the effort to overturn the election results. >> correct, it was four hours of a discussion that they had with me. >> when was that interview? >> it was a couple of months ago, three months ago. about the same timeframe, actually. >> can you tell us what you talked about? i mean, this is, news we did

not know that you had spoken to jack smith's tcan you talk abouu offer it to them? what information? >> i offered them nothing new. they seemed to have a good grasp on all of the testimony that i had given. and all of the interviews that i had given to the arizona republic. and people from the washington post. they were very aware of the january 6th committee testimony that i gave. there may have been something that i said that was of interest. but i don't remember anything standing out that had not been mentioned before. >> did you turn over any documents to them? >> that i don't remember, i know i gave a lot of documents to my attorney. and i still have a lot of

documents. i don't know if they're important or not. i have the proof, whatever that meant, that was the proof that i had asked for. but it was hardly the proof that i thought. >> what kind of documents were it? emails, text messages, phone records? anything like that? >> [inaudible] the players with the trump administration for. i want the names of all of the illegal aliens, i want the names of all of the dead people. i want the name of all the service people rather documents stolen. except, your et cetera, et cetera. and they said we have got, then we will give them to you, that is the proof i need in order to have any semblance of the necessary threshold that you do something this big. we are talking about, what, a year and a half ago? or more. and that never came. but i did finally get what they considered proof. and it was a couple of letters from a legal professor. it was a term paper from one of my colleagues on this theory of

law. it was several things that were entertaining. and much of tear sheets for ballots that were in the ballot entries and exits of the ballots in their 200 lots, 200 ballot lots, they came into the election officials. it was no names, nothing else. and so i have tongue squarely in my, cheek i say there's proof. and that is all the proof i ever got. >> i am assuming they also asked you about that phone call with trump and giuliani. directly where you said they called you after they had left church one day and we're basically asking you to do things. you said you couldn't do them? >> that is correct. they did. we went over that briefly, we went over the next call, he called me twice. the second time only from trump. and none of those -- he said i said in that email on -- before the january 6th

commission. i guess he is a free system of the empire, you can say what he wants. >> given that they asked you about trump, is it clear to you that this investigation is focused directly on the former president? or what sense did you get of the direction? the direction of that investigation? >> i think it is broad, because there is a lot of information about attorneys that work with them. about mr. giuliani that made the calls and visited us. and other members of his team, who they were, when the meetings were, what was discussed in those meetings or in that meeting. and so i presume that all of them are involved. how that shakes out as the threshold evidence, i don't know? i just dabble with a paintbrush. but i -- >> excuse me, we have heard that they were looking at other attorneys, did they ask you about cindy powell, kenneth

cheeseborough, any of these other attorneys that we know had been focused of jack smith? something is been looking into? >> mr. eastman. >> john eastman. >> was, that's what we mentioned specifically. i don't know if mr. epstein is an attorney, but he also called, and i believe we discussed his phone call which later. >> can you refresh our memory on the call? because you are talking about boris epshteyn, who is someone who is still often seen with trump. he was in court with trump in new york when you got indicted here at manhattan. what was, can you remind us the nature of that call that he had to? >> there was a bill that one of my former colleagues mr. finchem had introduced into the legislator that he wanted me to hear.

and it would take the ballot outcome of the 2020 election and put that outcome on the ballot for the people of arizona to vote on. whether they still felt that way or not. it would, if they voted against that election and it could be thrown out. that was the essence of this bill. and i, said i am not going to hear that. well, let's just say i won't hear that bill. and mr. epstein was trying to get convince me that was a good bill and that i should do it. and we had a sort of, he had five or six shots at trying to find a pivot that he could get me to accept, that it was a good idea. none of them were good ideas. and i wouldn't do it. that was our conversation, just to support the effort and i would not do that. i have a little more respect for what i do than that. >> did you see that as him

pressuring you? >> him being epstein, never threatened me in the least. i asked him, what about, this what about that? i finally said, i should've seen, were -- i'm not gonna do this. i'm not going to. -- i can promise that proof going on two years now. he suddenly have it? he said, yeah, i got it. we can give it to you. i said, well you put that up on my desk the next three days, that would be an interesting piece of pile to see. make sure that it is what i ask for? -- i told you what i got was, you know, some committee testimony from congress. a term paper, a couple of letters. and a bunch of tear sheets. all of which didn't prove anything. it proves that there were tear

sheets, proof that somebody had -- on the proof that you need for doing something so incredible as what we are faced with. >> do you think what rudy giuliani, worship shine, any of these other, attorneys do you think what they did rises to the level of criminal behavior in your view? >> that is not my, that is above my pay grade, i don't decide what is criminal or not. i think america can decide. and will. and i think they did in fact. and they may do it again. i hope it isn't good for. >> you hope it isn't that for? >> here, i do. i hope that i have a better -- >> we learned today that trump has raised $35 million in the second quarter. is basically double what he raised in the first quarter, obviously his legal troubles are piling up. he is still claiming he won an election that he lost. you say he effectively ended your political career. does he just deserve the gop

nomination? and if he gets, it would you vote for him? >> well i have already made very clear of that last point. very clear. the oval next to his name will never be filled on my ballot. and that is up to the birdie, if they think that that is what they have to do, then they are effectively throwing away a whole bunch of votes that -- that is up to them. we should be, wise we have got plenty of great candidates choose from. what a country. >> rusty bowers making some news that you have spoken to jack smith's investigators, thank you for joining us, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in cnn senior legal analyst elie honig, who is here with me, we want to talk wasn't else, he just made a lot of news. we did not know that rusty

bowers, just to remind everyone, you remember him likely from his january 6th testimony. he was the republican speaker of the arizona house of representatives. he says he has sat down with jack smith's investigators. >> this is extraordinarily significant. for four hours he has met with the fbi. and that means that jeff -- looking at rough -- that would be what you would do with someone who is not resisting. you send out the fbi as a prosecutor, if he's willing to talk as rusty was. you get as much information as you can. and this tells us that this is about more than georgia. this is the first that i think best indicator that jack smith is looking at this as a coordinated multi-effort by don trump and the attorneys, rusty bowers just listed. and i should add, he is a really good witness.

i mean, i'm sitting here watching him as a former prosecutor thinking boy, but i love to put him on the stand. he is, credible he is backed by the other evidence, he is relatable. so i imagine jack smith and his team are looking at him in the same way. >> what do you make of what he said about turning over evidence, documents to what he says he got when he asked for proof that there was election fraud coming from giuliani, worship stein. and he said he got random term papers and legal testimony, from testimony from hearings. what are they gonna use that for? >> that backs up rusty bowers testimony that he gave in front of the january 6th committee that at one point when he asked for proof he was told that we don't have any proof but we have theories. and then rusty bowers can say, well, here is what they've. me here, fbi, it's what they gave me. it's a bunch of nothing. and that is what we call cooperation. meaning there is no documents that he got from rudy giuliani and others that completely backs up the core point of his testimony. >> and the idea, i think what he said there was most notable, that they asked about trump directly, a call that he, had not just the one with rudy giuliani but the one with just

him and trump on the line. but also they asked john eastman. they asked, all these other attorneys around this. we know trump world is embracing for indictments in this. does this signal to you that we could see those indictments? >> this is septal words that for sure. i think it is really important that they were focused on trump. i think it's really important they were focused on those key intermediaries around him. it is really important we spoke to him for four hours. get through an awful lot of material in four hours. and the fact that there are people who are now expecting or think it is more likely that we'll see indictments in trump 's orbit, that is coming from somewhere, right? normally prosecutors would be in regular touch with representatives of a defendant. and it could be that they have been told something, it could be that they have picked up on something. even just knowing that what we are just, learned the five fifth rusty bowers spoke with the fbi is enormously telling for me.

and it tells me that jack smith is looking at this in the big picture. and that he is getting to the most important part. this is an ask of the most important questions. >> do you think, i mean, we don't know the jack smith has definitely not spoken to governor doocy, but the idea that as of recently he told a donor that he had, it do you think that is gonna change? >> it would surprise me if he had subpoenaed the secretary of state, which we know he did for arizona. and now we know that his team has spoken with rusty bowers, it would logically follow that he would absolutely talk with governor doocy. now as you said we don't know, this was just breaking news. so it may be that that has changed. but i would have to think as a prosecutor that they would absolutely be on the same checklist. >> all, right alienating, cue for joining us to break down that breaking news. all right, also coming up, it is no longer a suspicious white powder, it has been confirmed as cocaine that has made its way into the white house, who brought it there? and how did in the legal drug like that slip past the secret service? we will speak to a former agent next. g. - this was our second purchase through carvana, it was really fast. this time we traded in a car and next thing i know, our new car was here and our trade-in was gone. ta-da. - [narrator] buy your car with carvana today.

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>> tonight secret service agents are combing through surveillance video and visitor logs conducting dna and fingerprint analysis, while trying to figure out who brought cocaine into the white house. numbers all they confirmed that cocaine was in fact the substance that was found in the west wing. this discovery of what we are told was a dime sized bag triggered so much alarm that the complex was actually briefly evacuated. a source tells cnn that the spike was found inside a computer where visitors who enter the west wing leave their phones for security purposes.

the white house today insisting that they do believe they will get answers here. >> where this was discovered is a heavily traveled area where many white house west wing, i should be even more specific, the west wing visitors come through. it is under investigation by the secret service. this is in their purview. so we are going to allow certainly the investigation to continue and we have confidence that the secret service will get to the bottom of this. >> we should note that the time the drug was found inside the west wing, president biden and his family were away from the white house. they were at camp david. for more on this investigation, i'm joined tonight by former secret service agent evy poumpouras. the perfect person to talk to us about this. what does this investigation even look like? i covered the witness for so long, i don't remember this ever happening while i was there. but what does this investigation look like? >> so i also don't recall is ever happening as well in all my years working in the secret service. so what they are going to do is first they're gonna take the package, they are going to assess whatever they can from. it dna, fingerprints, if they

can find something on it. the other thing they're going to do is look through all the logs. the logs meeting who is passing through, who is coming in. there are people who are supposed to be signed through. so some of the speculation is could it be someone there for a tour. if someone goes there for a tour they have to submit their names for -- it is affordable, i've done it myself at the white house. you are supposed to admit in advance, i'm bringing this person in. here is their name, here is their social security number, you do a background check on that person to make sure that they clear. and then you get the authorization to have them come in. so assuming that that was done, they will look through all those logs. they are also no through any camera footage. so when somebody enters the white house complex, the out perimeter security is the informed division officers to actually assess people coming through. so all these booths, all those areas, there is plenty of cameras on the exterior that they are going to look at.

who is actually going into the area of those doors. >> yeah, and so the doors are key because for those who aren't familiar with the white house, there is a white door off west exec which is the road in between the white house and executive office building next door. there is another door that is probably the best known going straight into the -- that is the side door, there you see the hallway. there is never going straight into the west wing, so if you go into those doors and it is your areas where you would put your phone because you can just have a phone walking around the west wing, sensitive information. are there cameras there in those areas? >> that i cannot release. because it is such a sensitive environment. they are gonna look through the footage in its, you do want to make the, it would be fair to say that the more interior that you are, the less likely there is to be the type of camera system. if you think of it, it is a private discussions are being had, and their national security. so it is unlikely that you will have anything within. but look, this happened at the exterior where people are coming in. so that area that you showed,

that is essentially where all personnel come through. so vip, heads of states sometimes come through. so everyone comes. they're especially, it doesn't necessarily have to be the white house to our guest. it can also be a staff member. so that is something they should look at. as well, like who is coming in, could be a member of staff. so it is somebody who has access to that entrance. because the white house, even though it is a holiday weekend, and the president's away, it doesn't shut down. so as you note, people are working all the time in and around the clock. so there is traffic constantly happening through there. >> as a former secret service agent, when you heard, this i mean, what goes through your mind? because if cocaine can get into the white house, i mean, are there concerns with other powdered substances, anthrax, something more nefarious that could actually pose a real national security threat? >> two things are happening here, the first thing in my mind was thinking who brings this into the white house?

as far as an individual. so especially if it is a target store staff member i want to say this, if you are going sub bringing some afraid to warn you are the one authorizing that, person you should know who you are bring into. that sacred place. that is the one thing. i was far security particle, i hear what you are saying, you are saying somebody one through the perimeter checkpoints, right? the security. these are magnetometers, they are looking for weapons, and they're looking for any biochemical agents. this time sized bag which is really small, back and pass through. somebody can hide that somewhere. you are not strip searching people. so ensuring that everybody is kind of how did the stick get through? we are not talking about a large substance. we are talking about something super small. so unless you want to start stripping people down, staff included, at that checkpoint, which i'm sure secret service is happy to do. that is something that will have to change in the protocol. >> do you think protocols will be changed? >> i think they will. and i also think what staff should probably do is they should start drug testing everybody to see if anybody hits as well. >> well, kareem jean-pierre was asked about that today in the briefing. evy poumpouras, thank you. because you have insight on this like nobody else. so thank you for that. >> thank you for having me. >> all right, also tonight, the latest fund raising numbers are out. we talked with this earlier,

with rusty bowers, this is from the trump campaign. it's the former presidents indictment, indictments i should say, paying off for him politically? we will talk about that next. ♪ ♪ ♪

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sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. >> donald trump's legal

troubles have multiplied over the last several months. apparently, so has the money in his campaigns were chest. the trump campaign source confirming to cnn tonight that between his official campaign and his save america political action committee, the former president has pulled in more than $35 million in the second quarter of 2023. a campaign source telling me that number is much higher than what even they were expecting. it has nearly doubled the amount that was raised in the first quarter of the year for trump. this comes as his team is arguing the two indictments he is facing has supercharged donations from his supporters. joining me now to discuss, van jones, former special adviser to president obama margaret hoover, the host of firing line on pbs. van, do you think they are right? is the reason that you are seeing this number double because of the fact he is

facing all of these indictments, and more to come? >> it sure seems like it. one in marvel comics, there is a villain that fights the x-men for the hellfire club, his name is sebastian shaw. the harder you hit sebastian shaw, the stronger he gets. donald trump seems to be the sebastian shaw of politics. the harder you hit him, the stronger he gets. the worst he does, the better he does. i think it is because the republican party tribalism has kicked in here like, even if he's wrong, he's one of our own. you are going after one of our own. tribalism is trump in common sense, it's troubling principle. donald trump positioned himself to be a victim. i'm a victim, and not everybody is rolling around, protecting him as a victim. he fully hates snowflakes, but he is a snowflake that's working for him. >> margaret, it's worth noting that, when we talked about the idea of how much money this is, and we asked the trump campaign, how much of this is going to

the campaign? how much is going to the pack? the reason it's important, political action committee, that pack is being used to pay his legal fees, not just for trump, but also for -- i mean, do you think people understand this is, potentially, what their donations are going to? >> i don't know that people actually know that they may be paying for his legal fees. i suspect that van is right, part of the reason he's getting so much support is because they feel vilified that he feels vilified. then says it does appear to be galvanizing support for him. people are voting with their pocketbook, and people are supporting the guy who they feel is attacked. republican primary base, especially the self identified, not just republicans, but trump supporters, do not want somebody else to pick their candidate for them. they want to be there to stand up to them, to rally around the person they feel is being vilified, which is trump. in a way, if they are paying for is -- supporting the pack, and it happens to pay for their legal fees -- by the way, he is fundraising on his legal

troubles in a way there's a degree of transparency, even though he's not saying this is going to pay for my legal fees. he is saying he is running as the guy who his being vilified. it is as a hero advertising for support for his legal fees. >> van, as you are seeing how he is campaigning, not just fundraising, the former president had this big golly in south carolina on saturday, where we saw senator lindsey graham getting booed, he decided not to do any campaigning on the fourth of july, his campaign says he was spending the day with his family. what do you make of the typical handshake, on the trail politicking that we've seen, that we see other candidates doing versus how trump, given he is a former president, has that platform, is campaigning this time around? >> he's doing whatever he wants to do. who is running for president doesn't do anything on the fourth of july? donald trump. if any other person did, that if obama was running, he doesn't care about the country, he doesn't care about being president, he'd get destroyed. trump does whatever he wants to do. i don't think it is going to hurt him very much.

what it could do is leave a little bit of space for the other people who are out there, on the campaign trail, doing stuff to get a little bit of attention, vis-à-vis each other. we are watching something, there is no politician, certainly, and i don't mean to throw an issue in here. i cannot imagine any politician who is a normal person of color, a female, anybody getting away with this type of stuff. if you are a billionaire, and you are a white dude, apparently you can literally get away with anything, and it won't hurt to. in fact, it might help you. i've never seen anything like this. >> i don't know, mike bloomberg was a billionaire and what do, but he couldn't get away with it, van. it's a peculiarity of donald trump. >> look, i think if bloomberg had been indicted, i think you've gotten negative votes, he got zero, whatever negative 15 votes, something. i just think that, for a lot of

people watching, this it is like the rules don't apply to some. they sure apply to others. it feels bad. >> one of the other people we did see on the campaign trail, margaret, was pence, and he was talking about the fact he chose to be out on the campaign trail, drawing this line. he was in iowa. governor desantis was in new hampshire. do they have those moments where it is not a full thing about trump? maybe it is one day of it? obviously, pence is still being regularly ask about trump's pressure campaign on governor doocy, for example. >> a day off the trail does not a candidacy make-or-break, especially in the case for trump. mike pence has gone whole hog for iowa. he is not showing up there. he is showing up, but it is not making a whole lot of difference in the polls. desantis has all of the talent locked up, you know? iowans expect everybody there, expect them to glad-hand, to be there, trump does big rallies there. i don't know if mike pence is operation in an iowa approach is going to make a big difference for him. trump has the faraway lead. >> he is counting on the angelical voters in iowa. van jones, margaret hoover, thank you for joining tonight. >> thank you. >> ahead, news on the january

6th defendant who was arrested near, president obama's d. c. home. a van full of weapons. he had a series of recorded threats against current political leaders, democrats, and republicans. how did he allude to the authorities for so long? authorities for so long? authorities for so long?

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>> tonight, prosecutors are offering disturbing new details about the man who was arrested near former president barack obama's home in washington. he had two guns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in his van. the memo found earlier today says the defendant taylor taranto began live streaming in that area shortly after he re-shared a social media post from the former president, donald trump, or the former president posted what he claimed was obama's address. taranto said he had recorded himself -- also recorded himself, i should note, making threats against the house speaker, kevin mccarthy, and maryland congressman jamie raskin. cnn's national security analyst juliette kayyem joins me now to discuss the disturbing details

of this. juliette, according to this filing released, there is a lot of details, but the prosecutors say he showed up to obama's home, shortly after he re-posted the message from trump with what trump said was his address, and he added with, you know, this quote, saying got them surrounded. what do you make of what you've learned today? >> so, he was on a hunt, and he was given information that made that hunt easier. the disturbing thing about what was filed today was how long this has been going on. he was there january 6th is a picture or image of him. he is not in the crowd, he has a cane that has a point at the edge of it. he then eludes authorities, and by january 29th, not until january 29th, 2023, in the last week, that's when the indictment comes down. they are going after him for

january 6th, and he starts doing all this behavior. it's very performative, kaitlan. these guys, the fact he is a live streaming at, he is re-posting, very performative about threats of violence. >> i think to fill in a little bit, the reason why they had trouble finding taranto, was, he was essentially living out of this van, prosecutor said, this band that had guns and all this ammunition and it. in that time where he was just out, he'd been making threats against kevin mccarthy, congressman raskin. he went to -- he got into an area near an elementary school, near raskin's home. he had this -- i mean, what is the sense of why it did take them so long to find him beyond the fact that he didn't have a fixed address? >> right, it was the fixed address aspect of it. they are monitoring him for some periods of time. it is a live streaming, it is the threats, him showing up at places, the evidence about the jamie raskin interaction where he goes to an elementary,

inside an elementary school that is near the raskin home, and, basically, says i want him to live in effing fear of me. he is very targeted and who he is going after. he then begins to livestream his presence in the area, where president obama lives. that is when the secret services able to identify him. they essentially finally see him and realize it's their guy. he runs, the car is loaded with everything, it is not someone who is there to make a point. with lots of ammunition, the car is loaded, and you get to the arrest. what we are seeing, actually, is the information related to january 6th, and why he cannot be let out of prison. he is a clear and present danger to lots of people. there will be more evidence coming out about this particular investigation, and how he got animated by social media, and clearly by what

trump posted about the area president obama lived in. >> juliette kayyem, thank you. >> thank you. >> tonight, mass shootings are a uniquely american crisis. they spiked higher on the fourth of july this year than any of the other days, in nearly a decade. the staggering new numbers would with a person who's experienced the horror of gun violence, next. this is how tosin lost 33 pounds on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a... huge impact on your relationship with it. visit noom.com and start your trial today. new projects means new project managers.

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>> well, lyshad merritt left his home landed in philadelphia to go get a snack. he never came home from the corner score, though. he was the youngest of five siblings, loved his family, his girlfriend, and his job. after this fourth of july, his mother's pain is far too familiar. >> some maniac walking around, just shooting, shooting, shooting. for what? we probably will never know why, you know? he took my son, you took my baby, you took him. >> he was one of seven people who were shot by a gunman stalking the southwest philadelphia neighborhood.

five of those lives are now over. it was a block party in baltimore, or shreveport, or a nightclub in wichita, or a fireworks show in fort worth, this was a fourth that left families across the country devastated. nicole hockley lost her son, dylan, in the sandy hook shooting, she is now the cofounder and ceo of sandy hook promise. nicole, thank you for joining me tonight on something that is, obviously, all too personal with you. when you see the spate of shootings, like white scene in the last several days, do you see them as resonating with the american public the same way a school shooting does, or the walmart shooting we saw, where the killer there is now on trial? >> i think, unfortunately, gun violence has become such a perceived normal part of american life that far too many people just take all these shootings into their stride, even a lot of school shootings don't make the headlines anymore, never mind the daily

shootings. i mean, this weekend alone, we had 17 different mass shootings across the country. we are hearing about some of them, but not all of them. that is 17 more communities devastated. people need to realize this is not normal. it's not normal at any day in america, and we need to be doing more about this, and stopping it from happening. >> these are peoples lives. you just heard from this man's mother. when i was looking at the numbers, of this you mentioned over the last few days, the july 4th weekend, according to the gun violence archive, a decade ago, the u. s. had 118 mass shootings by the end of the fourth of july

weekend. we are now at 354, which is a 200% increase. what do you think is driving that? >> i think there is a lot of different factors driving. it i think, even in the last, decade we've seen a significant increase in the number of guns in the american market. gun ownership in general. i think there is also a lot of fear being stoked, and anger, and people not being able to resolve their conflicts, or resolve their anger in more sensible, civil ways. it is become far too easy to reach for the gun, and take anything out on those, if you feel they're doing something against you, your values, or beliefs. it is -- we are now in a war with our own country. we are not looking at it that way. we've got this health epidemic we aren't doing anything about, and we are just allowing it to keep happening. there are people trying to make things happen, don't get me wrong. we need more voices, we need gun owners to add their voice to this movement and say we don't want these happening in our neighborhoods and communities either. our children deserve to be safe, our families deserve to be safe. we need sensible legislation to help curb this before it continues to get even worse, and more out of hand than it

already is. >> you mentioned a sensible legislation. these are shootings that happened across different states with different gun laws. shooters using different types of weapons. what would something like that look like? i know groups like yours had success in pushing for new laws. when you see the spate of this, and the difference here, what does that look like? >> with a lot of mass shootings, we know shooters give off signs before they commit acts of violence, starting to look at some of the news reports coming out now, for example , the

shooter in philadelphia. there were warning signs. people need to learn how to recognize the signs and do something with it. something like and extremist protection order, or temporary transfer. that is a sensible legislation that doesn't strip anyone of their constitutional rights, but says, if someone is showing over warning signs, or is going into crisis, and could be at risk of hurting themselves or someone else, there is a court process for temporarily removing their access to firearms until they are deemed fit to have them back. that has evidence to show that it works in stopping tragedies, in particular suicide. storage laws, expended background checks. these are sensible, constitutional laws that would still help curb violence. i think ghost guns, like in school shootings, we are seeing more kids accessing ghost guns, where there is no regulation on them. there is no serial numbers to say where they are. you could go to, literally, ghost guns. com and download blueprints and start building your own. that is what people are starting to do. there needs to be strict regulation around that as well. that is incredibly scary to everyday citizens as well as law enforcement. >> nicole hawk, ali thank you for joining us tonight. >> we will be right back.

>> if a cdc, guns n'roses, air captains on your morning plus. we're not alone. you have in common with

ukrainian president zelenskyy. in an exclusive interview with my colleague erin burnett. the ukrainian president shared that is the soundtrack that prepares him to cope with the war he has been facing. >> i like a cdc. and ukrainian music. of course like ukrainian music a lot. the native language, that is why you understand, music the words et cetera. a cdc, i don't understand all of the words. >> but you like the music? >> i like the energy of a cdc. i like eric clapton. guns and roses. maybe it is old music. >> we are the same. >> not too old at all. thank you so much for joining us. cnn tonight with alison camerota starts right now. >> ac/dc is good for everything, it turns out. kaitlan, thank you very much. good evening, everyone, i am alisyn camerota. welcome to cnn tonight. new details about the armed suspect arrested in former president obama's d. c