♪ ♪ ♪ it's an american classic, but the eagles today are announcing their upcoming tour will be their last and they are not thonly ones. other artists are singing their ng ts year, including aerosmith, elton john, kenny logins, gladys knight, foreigner, and kiss. that is a lot of legends all in one year. so you better go get your tickets now, thank you for joining me tonight i am abby philips. cnn tonight continues right now with my friend alison camerota. i know you'll be first in line? >> i did see the eagles about two or three years ago, they were fantastic. i highly recommend it, but i also want to say this. i also saw the rolling stones farewell tour in 1981. and so i don't necessarily believe it when a band says it

is their farewell tour. >> that's true, but why take the chance? >> exactly. you and i are going to kiss this summer, exactly. thank you very much, a good show. alison camerota, welcome to cnn tonight. we have exclusive cnn reporting, short sources say that jack smith investigators are asking witnesses to about the angry and unhinged oval office meeting in which trump's team, after he lost the election, pitched a plan to have the military seize voting machines and have president trump invoked martial of. more of that reporting in a moment. plus, donald trump's personal aide, walt nauta, who is charged with helping the former president tied classified documents and lying about it, just pleaded not guilty. he is now donald trump codefendant and donald trump's political pact is paying out his legal fees. hold out all work at trial? my panel has thoughts. and, how donald trump's republican rivals are making

their cases tonight. here is what chris christie told jake tapper about trump's woes. >> he could not, and still cannot, deal with the fact that he's the only person outside of the state of delaware to lose to joe biden and he wants to pretend he still president. he takes these boxes with him, he flies them up, there in new jersey now. because they go on summer vacations with him. he wanted to go and pretend he was president and show these things to people, saying look what i still have. look what i still know. >> okay, let's get right to our cnn exclusive. jack smith's investigators, questioning witnesses about that, quote, unhinged oval office meeting in the final days of donald trump's presidency. our senior justice correspondent evan perez is here with that. evan, why are prosecutors zeroing on that meeting? >> well, alison, you will remember that that is unhinged is one word for it. bonkers is another word for it. it was mid december and it was

well after the former president and his team realized that they were losing, that the time was up and they had one last plan, a harebrained plan to try to preserve donald trump's time in office. and so they convened this meeting with a number of people, you had sydney powell who is one of his legal advisors at the time. patrick byrne, former ceo of overstock.com. michael flynn, fired national security adviser. they came up with a number of deaths, one was to seize voting machines and some of these key states. another was to declare martial law, another was to put sydney powell in as a special counsel to investigate some of these claims of voter fraud that they knew were already disproven. so that is what this meeting was about and we know that jack smith's investigators have asked a number of witnesses about this months ago and, more recently, this meeting again became the subject of some of the witness testimony,

including from rudy giuliani just a couple of weeks ago when he went in four consecutive days of testimony. here is the january 6th committee taking testimony from a number of key witnesses who were privy to what happened at that unhinged, bonkers meeting. here you go. >> we are pushing back and asking a simple question. as a general matter, where is the evidence? >> i mean, if it if it had been me sitting in the chair i would've fired them all that night and escorted them out of the building. >> it got to a point where the screaming was completely out there. you had people walking in, late at night, it had been a long day. what they were proposing i thought was nuts. >> i'm going to categorically describe it as you guys are not tough enough. or maybe, i'll put it another

way. you are a bunch of -- excuse the expression. i am almost certain the word was used. >> that plan obviously ended up being thwarted by some of the white house advisers, the legal team, but some of the stuff was just wrong and illegal perhaps. so we now know, alison, that this is something that jack smith's investigators have returned to. we know that they are near the end of this investigation and this is, again, why kaitlan collins and some of our team have heard about witnesses being asked these very questions. alison? >> okay, evan, also today trump's body man, meaning one of his personal aides walt nauta pleaded not guilty. what's next in the legal fight? >> so he finally was able to enter this plea of not guilty, it took about two minutes in court. he has tried a couple of times, but he got problems getting a

lawyers in florida who is practicing in florida to represent him. so now we know that he, and his co defendant the former president, are headed to trial. and obviously the pressure has been on auto to try to flip on the former president, we do not expect that to happen anytime soon, especially because, as you noted, at the top there that trump's political committee is paying his legal fees. and so now we see where this trial goes, whether we have a trial in december as the justice department has proposed or whether it might happen sooner or even later, which is something obviously that perhaps might come to the advantage of the former president. of course, as you know, nauta is seen a lot of times in the company of trump, especially when he is out doing campaign stops. >> evan perez, thank you very much for that reporting. let's bring in our panel, we are with me tonight's paul crater, former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york.

james -- writer for the atlantic and fast company. cnn political commentator ashley allison and political commentator scott jennings. great have all of you here tonight. paul, seizing voting machines, invoking martial law, wanting sydney powell to the special counsel to investigate fake fraud. obviously none of this is how a democracy works, however what is the crime? what is the crime prosecutors are looking at with this unhinged meeting? >> i don't know what it is but i assume it is obstructing the election and the results of that election being carried out. that meeting is obviously a crucial meeting where you have the former president and his advisers contemplating ways to, in fact, through the obstruction of the election. and so i am not surprised that jack smith and his team were focused on that,. >> what i was struck by, can you imagine if the guardrails did not fold. that they were yelling at each other, the trump team really

wanted to do these things and the white house lawyers had to say that is not how democracy, i don't know what they said, but somehow they had to talk him out of these things. >> that is why folks continuously say that our democracy is so fragile, and leading up to the election was when trump was showing his cards a bit, saying that he was questioning the legitimacy of the election before it even happened, people were saying wait a minute, we need to make sure that the right people are in place, not just at the federal level in the oval office, but that those working the elections, those frontline election workers who eventually got death threats put on them, they testified in front of the january six committee, thank goodness the guard rails held this time. he, and many in this field, are still not saying that the results of 2020 are real, hence we need to make sure that we continue to be vigilant to protect our democracy. >> donald trump is running again, scott, and who knows who the people around him would be this time. >> it will be pat cipollone who is critical about keeping

things on the rails at the end of the trump presidency. the thing about the meeting that we are reporting on tonight, they might be asking about what's happening between the end of the meeting and when trump issued the tweet, january six, it will be wild. l these things that you mentioned, this easing of the machines, those things didn't happen. but what did happen was the big rally on january 6th and the storming the capital. he obviously tweeted about it in advance, and so i am wondering if that is part of the questioning. did you hear any planning for what might happen on january 6th in the midst of these other things that we know about? >> that's a great point, because it is just a few hours after that that trump tweeted that out. >> the other thing that's interesting about the meeting is that it was not scheduled. so powell and flynn and patrick byrne, who there is no reason for patrick brown to be there. he is a random ceo of the estate. they walked in and eric -- who is one of trump's advisers saw them and was like what? and then followed them in and when he heard what powell is

saying, which was all the stuff that he had been saying on -- and elsewhere he called cipollone and said that you have to get down here. that's when it all kind of erupted. and so trump, we know from that meeting that trump kept being like, i don't know if this is -- but they were giving him something that cipollone was saying you can't do this. so you understand that that is probably what powell and flynn were hoping for, and even giuliani. you heard in the quote it is all about toughness. what do you want to do. >> let's talk about the walt nauta saying. now he and donald trump, his boss, our codefendants. and that may be tried at the same time at a trial. but donald trump is paying for his legal fees. and so how is walt nauta not beholden, how will he be able to tell the truth and not be beholden to donald trump throughout this trial? >> i think it's going to be challenging not just because his legal fees are -- >> its by trump's political pact, to be clear. >> while not as lawyers, who is

now retained today, i assume that in their engagement with walt nauta, are promising walt nauta that their advice to him will not be influenced by the fact that their legal fees are being paid by trump's pact. but it is easier said than done, and what not to stick it here, his future is very hinged to trump's wagon. it will be challenging for a variety of reasons for him to get out from trump's shadows, even though one of his likely best defenses i didn't know what i was doing was wrong, i was just following the instructions of my boss. >> that's where it get complicated, actually, because he has a choice to make. he can say i was just following instructions, in which case he throws trump under the bus, or he has to say that i did this myself. i decided to lie, that's one of the things he is charged with, and move boxes around on my own accord in which case he goes to prison, theoretically. >> even if, in the moment, he did not know it was wrong he has now had months, years at this point to say i did know it

was wrong and i am not going to stand by donald trump's side. instead he is letting the person who was really the ringleader of this pay for his legal bills, which tells me that he is a devout believer of donald trump, he is not going to turn his back. i think the unfortunate thing is that everyone in our legal system deserves representation. you hope that that representation has your best interests at heart, and then this case we just do not know that that is the case because of who is playing for his legal bills. >> you know, trump, other people who have worked with trump have been thrown under the bus. michael cohen, weisselberg, they were kind of spin on it. i think about that line from the great gatsby were there talking about tom and daisy blue canyon and they say that they smashed up people and things and creatures and the retreated back into their money and left other people clean up the mess they made. and i feel like walt nauta, whatever he thinks now, he is just getting thrown under the bus, basically.

isn't that likely that a jury might think, that you have this guy, a military veteran working for the president or ex president of the united states, gets asked to move a few boxes. in fort pierce, is it likely that at least one member of the jury is going to say i don't feel like sending wall nodded jail over what anyone else might have done? >> the big problem for him is probably the lying to the fbi, which according to the indictment he did. now, there may be ways to get around that and say i didn't really understand the question or -- i think even ignorance one of, you just told me to move the boxes and i move them. i could see that being a defense that would work. the line to federal officials as always -- >> i completely agree with that, especially if it was contradicted directly by his own text messages. >> you're saying that's what he'll get in trouble for? >> it's pretty cool -- it's difficult to wiggle out of lying to the fbi when your messages are contradictory. >> i think one way, trump wins

election. i don't know when this trial will take place, but the ultimately go defense for both of them is when the election. that's it. >> and then trump can also pardon him, it segura. >> that's not a legal defense. that's a political strategy. that's not a legal defense. you broke the law then you have the ability to say that i want to take responsibility for it, you do it. >> thank you friends. was it something she said? marjorie taylor greene is reportedly getting booted out of the right wing freedom caucus. that is next. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and yoyou make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways!

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if you don't stain your deck, it's like the previous owner is still hanging around. so today let's stain, with behr, the #1 rated stain. and make your deck, yours. behr. exclusively at the home depot. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene has been voted out of the ultraconservative house freedom congressman. maryland congressman tells cnn that they voted to boot her at the end of june. remember, this is a congresswoman who is cozied up to white nationalists, she is questioned whether 9/11 really

happen that way, she is blamed wildfires on jewish space lasers, but according to harris at the breaking point for the freedom caucus was when she called fellow republican lauren boebert a little b word. alice coleman hughes joins the conversation now along with james iraqi, ashley allison, and scott jennings. coleman, it's good to know they have standards. i guess that was finally the breaking point. >> space lasers, reasonable. calling someone to be worried, not. >> explain it, why is this is the straw that broke the camel's back? >> we like to think that our representatives are in d.c., you know, a pondering political philosophy and debating in a high minded way based on the principles of this great country. the reality might be that it is just like the high school cafeteria all over again and the machinations of the congress obey the rules of basically high school. and that is a very sad thing to contemplate, but i think that is what we are seeing. here >> particularly this

fight. this felt very high school cafeteria. >> it did, there is obviously a back story here, which is that a lot of members of the house of freedom congress thinks that marjorie taylor greene has been too cozy with kevin mccarthy. the idea that marjorie taylor greene is not right-wing enough for you is a little bit take -- peculiar. kathy, but didn't mind when she spok a white nationalist conference? >> it's not even that kevin mccarthy is a moderate, but the house freedom caucus has been built on the idea that they basically are going to remain tightly knit and that gives them their power. so if they feel as if marjorie taylor greene is moving closer to mccarthy, i think that weakens it. >> was that the nail in the coffin? >> her power at the moment is derived from the speaker. he has elevated her, she has become a key ally of his. the house freedom caucus does not exactly exist to support leadership and the

establishment and to govern and pass bills and get things done. she has become part of that, which is an interesting evolution for a firebrand like her. and so i am guessing that they did not like that, this back and forth with boebert. it is an interesting cover story, but the house freedom caucus, it sort of exists to torment and the rest of the republican party, so to be punished for a short conversation strikes me as a bit of a cover story. i think her evolution and movement towards house leadership, my guess had more to do with it. >> thought? >> first, i think you are giving high school cafeterias a bad rap right now, compared to how the freedom caucus behaves on the house floor. second, i think the house freedom caucus is trying to torment everyone who is not part of their small caucus, outside of even republicans. i think that scott's point is fair in terms of the he is aligning herself with kevin

mccarthy right now, but remember that she is still extremely close to trump. it's kevin mccarthy becomes unpopular, she will ally herself, they might not let her back into the caucus, but will still allow herself with votes to boot kevin mccarthy if that ultimately if that is what the person she truly follows, donald trump, says. i thought it was great when democrats had the house and kicked her off committees because of some of her behaviors. those are the standards that i think we should be holding people to. i also don't think that we should be calling out -- other people names on the house floor or in general in life. so applauding on that small standard from the freedom caucus in this moment? >> you are for something that the freedom caucus did? [laughter] >> let's move on to iran desantis and where he stands in the republican primary right now. he has raised to $20 million in the second quarter, which is of course impresses and his wife, casey, is out with a campaign push called mamas for desantis

and she has put out this ad of what her husbands stands for. let's watch a piece of that. >> he will do for america what he did for us. schools open, parents rights defended, school choice is universal, critical race theory prohibited, dei stopped, child mutilation illegal, girls sports saved, communities protected, our economy growing, and freedom guaranteed. >> okay. james? child mutilation illegal? it's illegal everywhere, by the way. obviously there are referring to reassignment surgery, but it was fact checked that actually the governor's office could not provide politifact any examples of this happening to a child. >> i actually think that that

was, relatively speaking, well done. but the part that you just showed was actually the more positive side, it sounds strange to say, but that is what desantis was accomplishing. the first half of the ad is a very bleak, ponderous, things are going to -- and that i think has been symptomatic of the problem that desantis's campaign has had. it has been incredibly rage filled and angry and bitter. the second half of the ad is kind of a pointing towards a direction that desantis might go. i think that if you watch the end of the ad which casey desantis is on, is that she is much better on camera than ron desantis is. she's more natural and seems much more winning. the last thing i will say is that i think the -- is kind of crazy. it is off of their sarah palin it mama bear stuff and it feels kind of cheesy. casey desantis does not really seem like a mama exactly, but i

get where they're trying to go. >> i can see how it would be cringe-y disarm, but if i try to put myself in the shoes of a mother that is upset about the fact that she had to mask her child pointlessly, upset about the fact that her child was not able to go to school for a lot longer than they should have been, upset about the fact that there are some schools where a teacher will say that if your child starts identifying as a different gender i have no responsibility to tell you, as a parent. if on the parent, that is upset about these kinds of issues which are legitimate, i see that ad and that actually activates the mama bear or pop on there in the, so i think that this angle might work. >> i mean, many campaigns have tied lines for constituency organizing, it is what i have built my career on doing. i think that casey desantis and ron desantis are going to a specific component of their base, white women in their party who did not vote for

hillary clinton, some came back and voted for joe biden saying, come back over here, you want to be on our team. the difference is though that that might work and a republican primary, but when you get into a general election, there are a lot more mothers out there that want to have bodily autonomy over themselves and their daughters. that want their children to be able to identify however they may want to. that actually do care about covid protocols and to safety and appreciate people taking precautions. i understand that it is a political tactic, i think it is short-lived, it will not span if he is able to make it out of the primary. >> casey desantis is an incredibly effective campaigner. growing constituency in the republican party, these moms who are really upset about what is going on in the schools on a number of fronts. i think it is going to be a good tactic for him. >> thank you all very much. now, where is the afghani prigozhin? cnn's matthew chance met with belarus's president and asked him just that.

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after the short, failed coup by wagner leader yevgeny prigozhin there is a lot of speculation over his whereabouts. some reports said he had been vanished to belarus, but today's cnn's matthew chance asked the bellows president, alexander lukashenko, where is yevgeny prigozhin? matthew chance is here to tell us more. matthew. >> well, alison, we were invited here to minsk, the capital of belarus to meet with

alexander lukashenko, the leader of the country and a man who has been a pivotal figure in the dramatic events unfolding in this region over the past couple of weeks. he intervened during the armed insurgency in russia last month and offered the wagner mercenaries a deal to come to belarus and to drop their armed rebellion. they agreed to do that, the uprising dissipated. and so when i spoke to him today, any but he wanted to talk about was what had become of wagner, where they here, what was actually happening on the ground here in belarus. take a listen to what alexander lukashenko had to say. >> as far as i'm informed, as of this morning, the wagner fighters are now stationed at the regular camps or they go for rotation to rest and recover from the front lines. in terms of the afghani prigozhin, he is in st. petersburg or maybe this morning he -- but he is not on the territory

of belarus now. >> there you have it, the revelation that we have guinea prigozhin is not actually here in belarus, which is where he we are told he had arrived in exile, taking that deal. or any of his soldiers so far. alexander lukashenko said he did not know what would come next, what would happen to prigozhin but he said he was certain that prigozhin would not be killed by putin. putin, in his words, would not do him in. but it is extraordinary to hear the president of the neighboring company of belarus actually raise it as a possibility that the kremlin could assassinate the wagner leader. it is certainly not good news for yevgeny prigozhin, who is now, we think, inside russia. alison, back to you. >> extraordinary matthew, thank you very much for that reporting. let's bring in cnn national security analyst steve hall and columnist for the washington post and a senior fellow at the council for foreign relations.

gentlemen, thank you for being here. steve, are you as confident as lukashenko is that yevgeny prigozhin has not been killed by putin or will not be? >> no, i don't share his confidence i am afraid. what is clear is that the messiness that this is caused for putin that, perhaps it is not the easy killing that he thought he might be able to do, just assassinating him like he is done with so many other people inside and outside of russia. it does not put rule of the possibility that he might take a more, well worn path. the path of navalny and previously -- another fallen oligarch who essentially, both of them served long prison sentences. we don't know if navalny will ever get out and we never knew if -- we'd get out either. a lot of times a prison sentence in moscow can be the same as a death sentence. either short term or long term, it is still not particularly hopeful for mr. yevgeny prigozhin. >> what is the status of the wagner troops, we just heard lukashenko say that they are

back at the regular pant camps, but didn't putin ordered them to disband and go home? >> those are great questions alison, to which i have very few answers. i am reminded about what churchill said about russia saying that it was a riddle wrapped in a mystery in a larger enigma. it's hard to know exactly what is going on here, but certainly one can assume that putin is maybe having second thoughts about disbanding the wagner group because it is so useful to him, both in protecting power in the middle east and africa, but also infighting on the frontlines in ukraine where the wagner group has been one of the most effective units in the russian army. but clearly what is going on here is another signal of weakness on putin's parked, the fact that wagner group can march within 120 miles of moscow, sparking armed rebellion, and their leader is still running around a free man apparently collecting money that was confiscated from him by the russian state. that is not a sign of a

dictator who has complete control of russian society, a sign of dictator who perhaps feels like abe has to make deals with other power centers within russia, and does not feel that he can actually lock-up prigozhin, at least not yet. >> gentlemen, i want you to watch what was playing on russian tv today. so there are these videos that the state tv is putting out. this is, reportedly, a raid of prigozhin's house. so the russian broadcasters were describing this as, quote. scandalous what they found in there and you can see in some of the videos, you can see that they found cash, u.s. dollars, they found weapons, they found passports, they found wigs in this one. you can see all sorts of different colored wigs in prigozhin's closet there. they found stuffed alligators that you might be able to see on the right side there. there is all sorts of stuff in his apartment. why is russian state tv putting

this out? >> well, let me start by saying that max is absolutely right, there are way more questions than answers. but what this appears to be is going down that road of beginning to build a public case legally, of course that is kind of weird because, in moscow and russia there is no rule of law. but they are building a public case against him, with regard to criminality and corruption. but here's the problem. the problem is that -- was on television on tonight's go saying, by the way all, that wagner stuff that you heard about. they are paid by the state. we are the ones who funded them. putin said this publicly to all russians who happened to be watching television at that time. so the russians already know that if there is any corruption, all the money that they find, all the stuff they find in his apartment, if you put two and two together it is from the kremlin. so how they are going to square the circle and hope that the propaganda works, it is often doesn't russia, they are just

starting to build a case against him here for the russian public because they are concerned about how the public is going to react. he might have more popularity than putin actually thanks. >> the messaging is all of, max? >> i think it is a very mixed bag. on the one hand, putin has called prigozhin a traitor, saying he wasn't armed rebellion. there is a message that suggests that prigozhin is corrupt and discredit him. but he is also a free man, and from reports i have seen he has been able to collect on the articles and money that has been confiscated from his department. perhaps what we are seeing, alison, is ambivalence on the part of the kremlin about what to do with prigozhin because, on the one hand, he is a pain for putin but he is also a very useful pond for putin. we can speculate that, perhaps, putin does not know exactly the best way to deal with him. but again i want to stress that this is all speculation. we do not really know what is going on behind the scenes and clearly there is a lot of hidden dealmaking going on that we can only guess that.

>> it is pretty riveting to watch, even though we do not know what is happening in their. steve, max, thank you both very much. from fistfight legal fight, elon musk is threatening to sue mark azar cobourg. his threads, a competitor or copycat? that is next. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right tim every time ( ♪ )

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>> the cage match between ten billionaires elon musk and mark zuckerberg is heating up. musk twitter threatening to sue zuckerberg's company meta, accusing the company a trade secret theft over the launch of

medicine new social media app called threads. threads launched yesterday and already reported 30 million users ups, and as of tonight, it's the number one free app in the apple app store. joining me to discuss is nick thompson, ceo at the atlantic and former wired editor-in-chief. nick, great to see you. is threats better than twitter? -- hold on, can we not hear nick? oh, shoot. hey, nick. >> i was muted. now, they have unmuted. me the answer, it all depends on whether you're able to find your interest and the things that you like. that is what makes a social network guidebook. darts is a slightly cleaner, slightly simpler version of twitter, but it depends on who you follow directly. >> that's interesting, because twitter's lawyers called threats a copycat app, and they

say that meta has, quote, engaged in systematic, willful and unlawful suppression of twitters trade secrets and other intellectual properties. when you look at it, you're right, darts looks very similar to twitter, so do they have a good case? >> we're going to need to know a lot more than what is in that letter. threats does not look like twitter. twitter also looked a lot like news feed, and in fact, darts is taking most of its infrastructure from instagram. so we don't know exactly how much threats copied from twitter. trade secret laws is pretty complicated. you have to be able to show that there was some information that twitter tried to keep hidden, and threats was able to corson poison to given, and then they went off and did it secretly. that is how the case is normally work. twitter's recommendation algorithm is an open source. twitter's main features are fairly obvious and used by lots of apps, so we will need to know a lot more before we know if there is a legal case for

twitter here. >> nick, what about zuckerberg posting that he believes that threats will be a friendlier public space than twitter? how will he controlled? >> there are a lot of ways to control the. there are several interesting things. what would be more every moderator post. they are importing the rules of moderation standards from instagram. instagram is a heavily moderated platform, more so than twitter. musk has, in fact, got in the opposite direction. he's been more in favor of free speech, anybody can post, post what you want, they can people that have been banned and putting them back on the platform. that appeals to a lot of people. the key question will be how it does with the algorithm. whether the algorithm promotes stories and posts, promotes comments that are emotionally triggering and start fights, or whether it is the opposite. my guess is that based on where facebook is right now, based on where instagram is, they will push really hard to have this be kinder, gentler, softer. they don't want to be the

public square for big news fights. twitter is more interested in the. my guess is that is what threats will be. it will be a little simpler and kinder. whether people would like, i don't know. >> fantastic, nick, thank you for walking us through all of this. great to talk to you tonight. >> oh, thanks so much. this driving me on, cheers. >> we'll be right back. just add water. squeez to control the strength of your mouthwash. and find a zone all your ownwn. ♪ ♪ scope squeez. ugh covid-19? i'm not waiting. if it's covid, paxlovid. authorized for emergency use paxlovid is an oral treatment for people 12 and up who have mild-to-moderate covid-19 and have a high-risk factor for it becoming severe. my symptoms are mild now, but i'm not risking it. if it's covid, paxlovid. if you have a risk factor, like being 50+, being overweight, asthma, or others, don't wait.

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>> we're in the midst of a golden age of black television, and we've only arrived here after an 80 year struggle for black artists to be seen and heard on tv? now, the new cnn original series, see it loud, the history of black television celebrates the creators who brought black tv to life. and looks at the impact it has

had on american culture. here is a preview. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> when i think about the history of black television, i really think about progress. for the longest time, we were footnotes in history. it is so important for us to have african american representation. >> hey, uncle phil. >> we talked about things that nobody in this country was willing to have a discussion about. >> i was like, martin, did you believe that they called us icons? >> that was one of the first times i saw myself in the sci-fi genre. >> that show was so successful, it launched bravo network. >> we had tyler parody who owns a studio. in 1950's, you could never have imagined it. >> in this era to be as loud as possible and as black as possible. >> we are the story. >> joining me now is justin simeon, the creator of the film,

dear white people and the netflix series at the same name. justin, great to have you here. >> great to be here. >> so, justin, some of the tv shows were my favorite, as we're for millions of americans. but i never thought of them as black television until now. the jefferson's, the cosby's, good times, all that, tell me about the rolled up active has had on all of us, even if we were not aware of it, and why it's so important for the series to celebrate? >> the thing about television is that it's an intimate art form. it's an intimate form of cinema. when you go to the movies, you're expecting a spectacle, to be blown away, on the edge of your seats. when you watch a tv show, we are expecting to be brought into the interior world of a character, almost like hanging out with friends or with a group of people that don't know all but want to know. i think that brings the lives of black people into people's homes, and what they're your a

puck person and go, oh, my god, their lives are just like mine, or you're not a person and go, oh, my god, those peoples lives are just like mine. it creates a sense of empathy for black people that i think is unique to television or form. >> yeah, that's interesting. so your show, they are what people, was part of this way for black tv shows like atlanta or insecure, and a featured a new generation of black creators and characters and stories. what was your vision for your show? >> my vision was basically take what was salacious or inciting interesting -- do that think that we talked about, which is bringing characters into the homes of people that normally they did not have a lot of relationship with. all of the characters in deerwood people, the minute that you see them on screen, the way they look and what they say about themselves leads you to stereotype them, frankly. you think that them as a very

specific kinds of people. but then as the show unfolds, you gotta know what's really underneath them. i think it brings a lot of complexities, a lot of complexities of black life into the forefront. >> as i understand it, there was backlash to it when it first premiered, which i guess was six or seven years ago. were you expecting that? >> yeah, there is always backlash when black people do things. there was backlash when the movie came out, backlash when the four seasons came out, the second season came out, when the third season came out, the fourth season came out. the truth is that we are one of the rare shores that has multiple seasons on netflix. i think that is a testament to some of the backlash towards being from a group of people screaming very loudly. i think netflix did quite well and by the so-called backlash.

>> what are you working on now? >> i just finished my next movie, haunted mansion, which comes to theaters july 28th. >> right on, we'll check that, and we will certainly tune in from the all new cnn original series, see it loud, the history of bucked ovation. it premieres sunday at nine pm eastern, six pm pacific, thanks, justin, great to talk. you >> look so much, it was great to be a part of a. >> thank you for watching cnn tonight, our coverage continues now. and road-t-test evaluations... and the results are in. subaruru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive b brand, according o consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru.

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>> the night under 6