this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed

♪ ♪ >> we have an important program for you today with the president of the united states, joseph r. biden. i sat down with the president in the roosevelt room of the white house on friday for an exclusive ♪ ♪ >> president biden is headed to europe for a trip that will take him to lithuania for nato's summit. >> holding nato together is really critical. >> it has been 500 days since russia invaded ukraine. is there any sign of an end to this war? and will nato offer ukraine membership? also, is there a thaw in relations with china or are we going to see an even more intense rivalry? and when can bibi netanyahu expect an invitation to the white house? all this in a special interview with america's 46th president.

>> i think we have enormous opportunities, and i just want to finish the job. ♪ ♪ >> i'll bring you my take later in the show, but first, president biden is headed to europe today for a five-day, three-country tour. the main focus of which will be a stock in lithuania for nato's annual summit. nato leaders had hopped to be celebrating sweden joining the alliance of the summit this week, but turkey has blocked the process. meanwhile, today marks 500 days of russia's war on ukraine and the ukrainian counteroffensive continues. it is an important moment for nato and an important moment for president biden on the world stage. i sat down with the president in the roosevelt room of the white house on friday for a wide-ranging interview about his for

foreign policy. >> mr. president, i'm honored to have you on the program. good to be with you, thank you for having me. >> when you go to the nato summit, the big, strategic issue is that ukraine wants membership in nato. should 2 it get membership in nato. >> i don't know if it should get membership in nato, and i've spent a great deal of time holding nato together and they off the 185,000 troops in ukraine and that was to break nato and he was confident in my view and he was confident he would break nato. holding nato together is critical. i don't know if it's whether or not to bring ukraine into the n nato family now in the middle of a war. for example, if you did that then -- and i mean what i say, we're determined to commit every

inch of territory that is nato territory. it's a commitment that we've all made no matter what. if the war is going on, then we're all in a war. you know, we're at war with russia, if that were the case. so i think we have to lay out a path or a rational path for russia, for -- excuse me, for ukraine to be able to qualify to get into nato and we have -- when the very first time i met with putin two years ago in geneva and he said i want commitments on ukraine in nato. we said we're not going to do that because it's an open door policy. we're not going to shut anybody out. nato is a process that takes some time to meet all of the qualifications and from democratization to a whole range of other issues. so in the meantime, though, i spoke with zelenskyy at length about this and one of the things it i indicated is the united states would be ready to provide

while the process is going on and it's going to take a while, while that process is going on to provide security, a la the security we provide for israel. provide the weaponry they need and the capacity to defend themselves if there is an agreement, if there is a cease fir, if there is a peace agreement, and so i think we can work it out, but i think it's premature to say or call for a vote in now because there are other qualifications that need to be met including democratization in some of those issues. >> the short-term issue isat th nato summit is sweden. are you optimistic that sweden will be invited to join nato relatively soon? >> i am. i am. i met recently with the swedish prime minister here. sweden has the same value set that we have in nato. it's a small nation, but has the

capacity to defend itself. they know how to fight, and i think they should be a member of nato. you know better than anyone the holdup is turkey. turkey and sweden is making adjustments in the law to relate to whether or not to have people burning the koran. they aren't swedes burning the koran. they are immigrants who are burning the koran and that gives an excuse and/or puts erdogan in a tough spot at home, and so they're moving to stop that, number one. number two, there is a turkey is looking for modernization of f-16 aircraft, and greece is also looking for some help, and so what i'm trying to, quite frankly, put together is a

little bit of a consortium here in terms of nato with the military capacity of both greece as well as turkey and allow swede tone come in, but it's in play. it's not done. >> you're hopeful? >> as a matter of fact, i'm optimistic. >> you have news, and the news is that the administration will provide cluster munitions to the ukrainians. these are weapons that 100 nations ban including some of our closest nato allies. when there was news that the russians might be using it against civilians and your press secretary said it might constitute war crimes. what made you change your mind and decide to give them these weapons. >> two thing, fareed, and it was a very difficult decision on my part, and by the way, i discussed this with our allies and i discussed this with our friend rs up on the hill. we are in a situation where

ukraine continues to be brutally attacked across the war by munitions and by these cluster munitions that have rates that are very, very low -- i mean, very high and are a danger to civilians, number one. number two, the ukrainians are running out of ammunition. the ammunition -- they call them 155 millimeter weapons, this is a -- this is a war relating to munitions and they're running out of that ammunition and we're low on it, and so what i finally did and took the recommendation of the defense department to not perm minutely allow for this transition period of we get more 155 weapons and the shells for ukrainians to provide them with something that's a low rate which is 150 which is the least likely to be blown and not used in civilian areas and trying to

get through those trenches and stop those tanks from rolling, and so, but it was not an easy decision and we're not signatories of that agreement, but it took me a while to be convinced to do it, but the main thing is they have the weapon to stop the russians now from -- or to keep them from stopping the ukrainian offensive through these areas or they don't, and i think they need to. >> next on gps, america's secretary of the treasury just wrapped up a visit to china on the heels of a similar visit by the secretary of state. is this a sign of a thawing of relations or will tensions between the two great powers continue to rise? i'll ask president biden about his china policy when we come back. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine.

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today, treasury secretary janet yellen wrapped up a four-day trip to beijing that was designed on ease u.s.-china tensions and that comes on antony blinken's trip last month and despite the high-level diplomacy the relationship has never been more tense. each side is sparring over technology, conflict over taiwan remains a dangerous possibility and president biden has enraged beijing with statements indicating the u.s. would come to taiwan's aid in a confrontation. >> would u.s. forces defend the island? >> yes. >> where does the relationship go from here? i asked president biden. >> let me ask you about china policy. recently there have been announcements on restrictions on cloud computing and the chinese are now beginning to make -- put

restrictions in place on critical materials relating to semiconductors. when i travel around the world the sense i get is people are wondering where is this going? is this a ratchet where the united states will keep doing things like this, the chinese will start responding and this goes on, do you think there's a kind of stable point here where u.s.-china relations can be as you have often said, competitive and also when necessary, cooperative? >> the answer is -- look, if you don't mind my saying just before we went on air, things are talking about things are changing in the world. china has enormous potential capacity and enormous problems, as well and so there are two things that i tried to do in terms of our china policy, and by the way, i admit first in person, xi jinping more than any other world leader, 68 hours

alone, he and i with an interpreter back when i was vice president all of the way through because as you remember it was clear he was going to be president and it wasn't appropriate for barack obama to travel the world with him, but i traveled 17,000 miles with him when i was vice president in china, and so we understand each other, i think, fairly well, number one. number two, everything's changing. you heard me saying before. the world is an inflexion point. no matter what was happening, china is in a different place right now internally. internally. i'll give you an example. he often says to me, on two occasions he called me and said where am i criticizing what's going on with western china and slave labor, et cetera. i said, remember, you told me for china to be able to be secure it needs to have one leader, a united china from

taiwan to the tibet an plateau and that's when china has done well all of the way back in time, and you told me not to talk about the unity of china you wouldn't be able to lead. i said well the united states is the most unique nation in the world. we are organized based on an idea and we hold these truths to be self-evident, all men and women are created equal. we never walked away from it, and for me, for the american president to remain silent on slave labor would be totally inconsistent and so i think what i guess i'm trying to say is -- i'm sorry to run so long, is i think there is a way to resolve -- to establish a working relationship with china that benefits them and us and

the last thing i will tell you on this is i also called him after he had that meeting with the russians and the new relationship, et cetera, and i said this is not a threat. this is an observation. since russia went under ukraine, 600 american corporations have pulled out of russia and you told me your economy depends on europe and the united states and be careful. be careful, and so he -- >> what did he say? >> he listened. he didn't argue, and if you notice, he has not gone full bore on russia. he talks about nuclear war would be a disaster and there's such a thing as security that's needed, anyway -- so i think there's a way we can work through this.

that's why i spend so much time beefing up -- i think if i told you three years ago which i have written about in my notes that i was going to get japan deeply involved and have them change their defense budget and not that i've done it, but work with south korea and work something out. we'll put together the quad which is india, australia, the united states and japan. i got a call that said why are you doing that? we're not doing that to surround you. we're doing that to maintain stability in the indian ocean and then the south china sea because we believe the rules of the road about what constitutes international airspace in the water should be maintained, and so i think it will take a little time and where it goes depends a lot on when he's able to do

internally with his economy. >> do you think he wants to replace -- he wants china to replace the united states and the leading power and the defining power? >> oh, he does. i'm confident he wants to have the largest economy in the world and have the largest military capacity in the world. >> would he re-write the under national order? >> i think so. he pointed out to me and he said we were aren't there when the rules were written about international airspace and so on, but i don't think he wants -- he's looking for war conflict, expansion of territory, and look, i sometimes say to my colleagues and i've spent over 180 hours of speaking to my colleagues on zoom. i say to them, do you know anybody, any world leader that would trade places with xi jinping? okay. i'll take your problem, you take

mine. i don't know that anybody would, because it's not that he's a bad guy or a good guy. the circumstances are enormously complicated. for example, you know, the whole notion of of this new ring road that he'll invest in other nations, well, it's ended up reducing the noose and these countries are in real trouble and it requires us to be more responsible, the west. i've been pushing very hard to get our european colleagues to invest in infrastructure in africa, in south america and to generate the kind of growth that they should have and could have because we're the ones that caused the environmental problems and now we tell them no. everybody slow up. i guess what i'm saying is i think there are positive answers

to the dilemmas that exist without worrying about whether or not china will rule the world. >> president biden has taken the unusual step of urging bibi netanyahu to walk back his controversial judicial overhaul. has bibi done enough to get an invitation to the white house? i will ask the president. ist tas that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ this is your summer to smile. to raise your glass and reconnect. to reel in the fun and serve up great times. to help you get ready your aspen dental team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care

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late last month prime minister benjamin netanyahu had been invited to visit china. that invitation underscores the absence of a similar one from the united states. in march, after sharp, rare criticism of netanyahu for his proposed judicial overhaul, the u.s. president joe biden said that the prime minister would not receive a white house invitation in the near-term. months later he has shown no

sign of relenting. so where do matters between the two leaders and their countries stand? i am back with joe biden. mr. president, what will it take for bibi netanyahu to get an invitation to the white house? >> first of all, the president will be coming, and we have other contacts. i've been -- i think it's fair to say an unyielding supporter offis veil for over -- i've only been around a couple of years, but for as long as i've been around and bibi, i think, is trying to work through how we can work through his existing problems in terms of his coalition. he has -- i'm one of those who believes israel has the two-state solution. i think it's a mistake.

to think that some members of his cabinet and it's one of the most extreme members of cabinets that i've seen and i go all of the way back to golda meier, and not that she was extreme, but i go back to that era. i think that the fact that the palestinian authority has lost its credibility, not necessarily because what israel's done, just because it just lost its credibility, number one, and number two created a vacuum for extremism among the palestinians and there are very extreme elements and so it's not all israel now in the west bank, but they are part of the problem and they can settle in where we want and they have no right to be here, et cetera, and i think we

are talking with them regularly and tamp down what is going on and bibi will move toward moderation and change. >> you've had tough words about saudi arabia from the start about the khashoggi killing and things like that. you talked about needing a new relationship and they've been pretty unyielding when you've asked them to bump more oil. they slashed oil recently. now saudi arabia wants a defense treaty from the united states promising that you will protect them and they want civilian nuclear capacity which again the u.s. would have to provide, and in return they would recognize israel. will you do it? we are a long way from there, and we have a lot to talk about. for example, that trip that was criticized for my going, a

number of things that happened on that trip. on that trip, i was able to negotiate, and israeli aircraft can now overfly saudi arabia, number one. number two, the price of oil is actually down, not up and it's not because they have done one thing or the other, but the world's changing and our policy's relative to renewables are real. number three, we found ourselves in the circumstance where in yemen it's essentially for a year now it's ended, and the peace is being kept. so we're making progress in the region, and -- and it depends upon the conduct and what is asked of us for them to recognize israel. quite frankly, i don't think they have much of a problem with

israel, quite frankly, and whether or not we would provide a means for which they can have civilian nuclear power and/or be a guarantor of their security. i think that's way off. >> finally, mr. president, you've often said when people asked you about your age, just watch me, and i think a lot of people do watch you and are impressed and they think you've been a great president. you've brought the economy back. you've restored relations with the world, but many of these people do say and these are ardent supporters of yours the next thing he should do is step aside and let another generation of democrats take the baton. why are they wrong? >>. >> it's not right or wrong.

look, to use the trade again, i think we're at an inflexion point, and i think the world is changing, and there is one thing that comes with age if you've been honest about it your whole life and that is some wisdom. i think we're in the cusp of being able to make significant, president changes in the world and really, honest to god do. you've seen what we've done in europe and europe ism more unitd than it's ever been since world war ii. you see what we've done in the in ind ocean and the south china sea and we have basically 50 island nations that are participating and will be here, by the way, shortly. i think we're putting the world together in a way that is going to make things significantly, how can i say it? more secure for people. we're uniting democracies and

have the possibilities in a way that hadn't happened ever, and so i think whether it's the far east, whether it's nato or whether it's europe or whether what's going on in africa, i think we have enormous opportunities, and i think i just want to finish the job, and i think we can do that in the next six years. >> mr. president, it's been an honor. thank you. >> thank you. appreciate it. thanks. i want to thank president biden for joining me. next on "gps," my take. some republican candidates want to wage war on mexico's drug cartels. i will explain why this is a as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. ♪ at morgan stanley, old school hard work meets bold new thinking. ♪

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and now here's my take. american presidential campaigns usually aren't focused on foreign policy which is actually a blessing because when they are, the result is often crazy talk. if you doubt that, consider the

latest policy idea that has been endorsed in some form or the other by almost all the front-runners for the republican presidential nomination. effectively declaring war on mexico's drug cartels. donald trump plans to wage war and impose a full-naval embargo on them. senator tim scott says he wants to use the world's greatest military to solve the problem. a recent poll found strong support for military action among gop primary voters, so expect to see more such wild statements. the problem that needs to be address side rd is real and tragic. more than 70,000 people in the united states died from synthetic opioid overdoses in 2021, the last year for which they have data. the leading synthetic opioid is fentanyl which is similar, but much more potent than heroin and they're mftly mead by cartels in

mexico. the idea of using american military force would solve the problem is delusional. first, it would be an act of war against mexico. that country's government has been clear that it is utterly opposed to any use of the american military to deal with its drug problem, and if it were to be persuaded otherwise, the worst way to proceed would be for american politicians to proclaim that they intend to use force regardless of what the mexican government thinks. this kind of rhetoric is a gift to mexico's populous president andres manuel lopez obrador which will use it to gin up anti-american sentiment in his country. second, it won't work. has senator scott reflected that the world's biggest military was unable to stop the drug trade in afghanistan, a country that it occupied for 20 years. the problems in mexico would be even greater than afghanistan.

large areas of no-man's-land where the cartels operate, and massively funded and armed militias and many ways to shift production across borders. third, large-scale action against the cartels would unleash instability across the region and in the u.s. itself. you would think that we would have some understanding of the unintended consequences of military interventions after iraq and afghanistan. millions of migrants have been trying to enter the united states. imagine what the numbers would look like if there were a bombing campaign in southern mexico. armed gangs would disperse and try to find ways to hide by smaller numbers including by crossing the border into the u.s. and instead of exporting the violence to mexico we would be bringing the war to america. two years ago on the 50th anniversary of richard nixon's war on drugs, several studies

noted that it was almost an unqualified failure by almost any measure. despite the $1 trillion spent on enforcement, deaths from drug overdoses have risen dramatically. while the american prison system has been utterly transformed. now with less than 5% of the world's population, america has around 20% of its prisoners. after many reform efforts, the police make over a million arrests each year simply for possession of drugs, and when we talk about the war on drugs we rarely discuss its effects on latin america. our efforts to address the problem massively empowered the militaries of many of these countries and hindered the development of civil society, democratic development and the rule of law. corruption skyrocketed and infested all parts of society as can be seen most readily in mexico where the cartels have

become interwoven with parts of the government. some consider planned colombia in the battle on the war on drugs. since december, washington has appropriated $12 billion in the efforts to colombia where a brave and tenacious government fought vigorously against the cartels. coca cultivation did decline for a time in colombia, but has returned with a vengeance. even worse, the strategy had the effect of increasing production in neighboring peru and bolivia. in fact, the drug trade originally moved to colombia in the 1980s and '90s from peru and bolivia because of the military efforts in those countries. upon this is what experts call the balloon effect. you can just as easily call it capitalism 101, when the richest country in the world has an insatiable demand for drugs, someone will supply them.

solving the fentanyl crisis in america will take time and a wide range of efforts and doctors still prescribe far too many opioids, responding the commercial incentives and a 2019 study shows that american and canadian, post-operative patients were seven times more likely to be prescribed opioids than patients in sweden. drug treatment and rehabilitation programs are still far too small and underfunded. medications that help with withdrawal symptoms have proven extremely effective, but still only one in four people who need them in the u.s. can obtain them. in the meantime, though, it is much easier to bellow about going to war with mexico. let's hope that this is just campaign craziness. if we actually try to make these threats a reality, we will be asking for decades of turmoil. go to cnn.dom/fareed for a link to my washington post column

this week. next on "gps," after 500 dice of war, the list of russia's alleged war crimes is getting long and the road to bringing war criminals to justice is not easy, but my next guest is working to hold the perpetrators accountable. that story when we come back. not no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. baby i hear one every night... every night. okay... i'll work on that. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number.

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last week a u.n. report found that russian forces have carried out widespread and systematic torture of ukrainian civilians. since the war began 77 civilians have been executed, and over 800 arbitrarily detained, often under inhumane conditions says the u.n. and russia's alleged war crimes are piling up. the u.n. has added the russian army to its blacklist for killing 130 children in ukraine last year and even using

children as human shields. in response, the head of president volodymyr zelenskyy's office openly call putin a war criminal and an ngo calling a reccening project has trained journalists to collect eyewitness testimony of atrocities. this evidence is being used to help prosecutors build cases against putin and others in international court. former war correspondent janeane de giovanni is the executive director of the pleasure to have you on. tell me how did you get involved with this project. >> so, fareed, as you know, i worked in war zones for more than 30 years. 19 wars. unfortunately i've witnessed three general sides in my life time. i have seen far too often crimes against humanity, war crimes walk away from it. and often it was because evidence was not collected while

the war was going on or that by the time they would get these people to the docket, it was too late. witnesses had died or they disappeared. so, the day after the full-scale invasion of ukraine, with a colleague, peter pomeransiv, we decided the best way to quicken justice and to make sure that putin would be held accountable for these crimes, we would do something that would have more impact than journalism. and what we realized was there was a huge niche between the huge number of journalists that were on the ground witnessing these things daily, but they were unable to take witness testimonies. they didn't have the skills to do this. they didn't have training in international humanitarian law and most importantly they could damage witnesses by traumatizing them if they asked the wrong questions. so that's the origins of the reckoning project. i guess you could say it was born out of my own deep anger, frustration and bitterness at

seeing justice not delivered. >> i know this is an on going investigation, but give me some sense of what are you finding. >> so mainly we're working on some very specific projects. we were amongst the first, the reckoning project traced the stolen children, the ukrainian children. in our case, a family that was taken from mariupol, their family was put into a filtration camp and the three children were put on a bus and taken to moscow. they were then very close to being adopted by a russian family when somehow the eldest child got a cell phone, managed to call a colleague of his father's to find out that his father had been released from filtration camp and was in latvia and then they reunited. so that is one happy ending, but there are many that are not. so we're really focussed intently now on russia's abduction of these children. because to us, it ties very closely in with genocide because

it is trying to eradicate ukrainian identity. when these kids go -- are taken to russia, the first thing that happens is their ukrainian names are usually taken away from them. they speak in russian rather than ukrainian. they're taught a whole new kind of rhusfied system, which early reminds me of what happened with cambodia in year 0. so their past is essentially erased. we're working on ecological terrorisms. but mainly what we look at is torture, deportation, murder, of course, but the indiscriminate use of force against civilians. the purely unnecessary attacks where there are no military instillations and yet they are bombed simply to terrorize the population, to weaken their resolve and their resilience. i just got back to kyiv. there are nightly air raids. people are going to the shelter.

it's not the siege -- that level of shelling or that kind of constant sniping, hundreds of shells falling a day, but it wares them down psychologically, which is putin's intent. he wants to weaken them. he wants to weaken their resolve. 16 months into the conflict people are really tired. they want normality again. they want a normal life. and yet they have to take their kids to a shelter every single night. this is really hard. and yet, you know, as you know, the ukrainians are extraordinarily resistant, tough and strong, but it is a difficult way to live when your life is completely broken in half. and this is vladimir putin's intent. >> when you're doing this work, do you think of yourself as a journalist? or do you think of yourself as an activist? >> i think of myself more now as a war crimes investigator and an activist, but at my core, how

could i ever escape being a journalist. it's what i did for 32 years. but essentially, we do the same thing. as a journalist i always worked on human rights and war crimes. that was my beat. so i am still looking for the same kind of patterns, but now i'm just looking at it in a much more legal way. for instance, on my team are two syrians. our chief legal counsel and our data scientist. the three of us, of course, have spent a lot of time in syria. and then i've been in chechnya. so these are three putin wars. we look very carefully at putin's -- what i call putin's gruesome play book. his pattern of indiscriminately attacking hospitals, which we know -- we remember from aleppo, the destruction of hospitals and his intent, if you kill one doctor, you kill a community basically. the same kind of targeting of maternity hospitals. even more chilling in ukraine

because this ties into his whole ethos of destroying ukrainian identity. but we're looking at patterns of what putin does, how his commands from his propagandas, for instance, how that affects directly action on the ground. that's another thing the reckoning project is very involved with is propaganda and how it directly affects soldier's actions on the ground. >> i wanted to close by telling me what your mentor, that israeli lawyer, told you. >> so, many years ago when i was an academic and had no intention of ever becoming a journalist, i met faly sha langer at the time was the only jewish lawyer representing palestinians in court. she took me to gaza and the west bank. when we got back, she said if you have the ability to go to these places and report what is happening on the ground, then you have a duty and an

obligation. and i've lived my life by her words since then. >> janine, pleasure to talk to you. >> thank you so much, fareed. i want to thank president biden again for being a part of my program. and thanks to all of you in the united states and around the world for watching. i will see you next week and every sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. eastern time. ♪ ir wiccan truly elevate your living space. with two times the natural essential oil it's time to raise your fragrance expectations. vibrant from air wick. [ applause ] >> the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day a confident day... a never-hide-my-smile day... a life-of-the-party day... a take-on-the-world day... a believe-in-myself day... a flash-my-new-teeth day. because your clearchoice day is the day you get your confidence back for good.

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