finally tonight, investigators believe they are closing in on the murder suspect who escaped from a pennsylvania weekend last week. according to police there have been a number of sightings and they believe they are accurate. police are raising the possibility michael burham, known to be a survivalist, may be getting help from the outside. authorities say a drone was hovering near a jail just before burham escaped by climbing down bed sheets he had tied together. thanks so much for joining us tonight. see you tomorrow. ac360 begins now. tonight on 360, breaking news, we have learned about

another official who prosecutors in the special counsel's election probe have spoken to, details and what it could suggest. republican lawmakers grill the republican appointed registered republican fbi director, is there evidence for their allegations? i will ask the republican former us attorney who recommended them for the job, chris christie joins us. later, ray epis, january 6th protester in hiding after right wing media painted him as a plant. the lawsuit they just filed against fox news. good evening, the breaking news, new word another top state election official has spoken with prosecutors in connection with the former president's efforts to overturn the eleck. she is joselyn benson, michigan secretary of state, she joins her georgia counterpart, brad raffensperger, former arizona republican lawmakerer rusty bowers and two republican officials in talking to jack smith's team. what have you learned about secretary of state benson's interview with jack smith?

well, anderson, what is important about this interview is that we now see a pattern of the smith team, the special counsel's team, going through all of the states, it key states that there was this effort by the former president and his allies to try to overturn those elections and try to, perhaps, seat these fake electors. so what we know, sources telling zack cohen, is that she sat with the smith team for several hours in recent weeks and we know that, as you pointed out, they have already talked to state officials in georgia, in nevada, in arizona, so you can see that this is an effort by the special counsel to try to figure out exactly whether there is a crime here that was committed in that effort, not only to overturn those state elections, but also to, perhaps, get access to voting machines. that is one of the things that joselyn benson's office turned over, they turned over documents

and evidence, that indicate tld were people connected to rudy giuliani who were trying to get access to voting machines in a specific county, in michigan. again, we don't know whether this is something that will be charged as a crime but they are diving into >>. there are defamation lawsuits brought by the two georgia election workers against rudy giuliani. what are the court filings? >> that is right. defamation lawsuit, not only against giuliani but others but the legal team for for the two workers produced evidence that they obtained from rudy giuliani and some of his allies. one of the key things here, anderson, is that it shows that giuliani and, again, people connect it to former president donald trump, were not really interested in checking out these claims of vote fraud. what they wanted to do is make

those claims and try to make them stick. here is an example, a text message from boris epstein, who is, continues to be very close to the former president as an advisor. here is what he says in the text, urgent potus request, need best examples of election fraud we have alleged that is super easy to explain. he continues, doesn't necessarily have to be proven, just need to be easy to understand. is there any sort of greatest hits clearing house that anyone has for best examples? again, an indication that they weren't really trying to make sure these were proven examples of what they claimed was fraud, they wanted to be able to make the claims, again, as part of the broader effort. not only to overturn the state election results, but, again, to give reason to congress and, perhaps, state legislators, to have their fake electors be seated.

again, overturn the victory of joe biden. >> all right, evan perez, thanks. the fbi director is uncomfortable on capitol hill after the former president latched on to attacking the fbi and justice department deflecting allegations, he had help from republican lawmakers in the house. ever since january when republicans gained control of the house, and began holding hearings and what they call weaponization of government they made fbi director, christopher ray, something of a nemesis. today it came to a head. cnn reports on his defense and criticism of the man who appointed him. >> reporter: fbi director christopher ray-- >> thank you, good morning, members of the committee-- >> reporter: pulling no punches in critiquing former president donald trump's sloppy retention of classified documents. >> i don't want to be commenting on the pending case, but i will say that there are specific rules about where to store classified information and those need to be stored in a skiff, a

secure compartmentalized information facility. in my experience, ball rooms, bath roop rooms and bedrooms are not. >> reporter: insisting the bureau is not protecting the biden family. >> are you protecting the bidens? >> absolutely not. the fbi-- >> you won't answer the question whether or not-- >> r >> reporter: he disavowed some behavior in john durham's probe which documented mishaps by the vib into the investigation into the trump campaign's ties with russia. >> i consider the conduct that was described in the durham report as totally unacceptable and unrepresentative of what i see from the fbi every day and must never be allowed to happen again. >> reporter: ray, however, stood by the search at trump's mar-a-lago estate. >> i would call it execution of a lawful search warrant. >> reporter: and defended in the wake of the search. >> we did stand up a whole

dedicated unit to focus on threats to fbi individuals, fbi employes and facilities because of the uptick we saw over that time period. >> reporter: ray facing off against some of his toughest congressional critics on the house judiciary committee where republicans have threatened to slash the bureau's budget and accused fbi leadership of political bias. >> people trusted the fbi more when jay edgar hoover was running than when you are. >> respectfully, in your home state of florida the number of people applying to come work for us and devote their lives working for us is over a hundred percent. >> we are deeply proud of them and they deserve better than you. >> reporter: all democrats took shots at the gop colleagues. >> we are here today because maga republicans will do anything to protect donald trump, their savior, no matter how unfounded or dangerous it may be to do so. >> reporter: democrats also

needling judiciary chairman jim jordan for once defying a subpoena in the house january 6th investigation. >> quite rich you are hearing allegations from somebody who won't respond to lawful subpoena. >> sarah, chris ray tackled head on whether the fbi is weaponized against americans and whether he is biased. what did he say? >> this is refrain we have heard over and over from republicans on this committee, particularly the chairman, jim jordan. chris ray said absolutely not. the fbi is not weaponized against every day americans. he also said it is insane to him the notion that he is somehow biased against conservatives, noting his own personal background and his personal background is he is a registered republican and he was appointed into this position by donald trump, a former republican president. >> thanks so much. with me here live the man who recommended ray for the job, former u.s. attorney, former new jersey governor and current

republican presidential candidate, chris christie. crirace ray is a republican and served as your attorney, you recommended him. how did he do? >> i think he did well today. look, it is never a comfortable situation, i have appeared before congress as a member of the executive branch. it is never easy. it is always combative, and they are performing what they consider oversight responsibilities-- >> there is performance for cameras too. >> i was going to get to that. some are legit asking questions, i thought ken buck today was legitimately trying to get to the bottom of some things and did it in a way that was smart and respectful and got information back. some people are there just to perform. on both sides of the aisle. >> true. >> chris is a big boy and he understands this. let me say from my perspective, first off, this is a guy who has been nominated by two different republican presidents and twice confirmed by the united states senate, and not one republican in the united states senator voted against him either time. >> secondly, this is somebody

who understood as he said today, the faults of the comey fbi, as laid out, that is why he fired every member of the team out of the fbi. that is why he burned leadership team and put in place a bunch of reforms detailed. >> have you seen evidence there has bindz weaponization of the fbi? >> i have not. it doesn't mean there might be individual agents who go rogue. that happens, 38,000 employees of the fbi, okay? chris ray can't make sure that every one, every day, follows the rules impeccably, but what he has done is when they step out of line, they are disciplined for it. >> do you see any evidence that the attorney general, merrick garland, or president biden has weaponized the department of justice? >> i don't know about the attorney general. i don't know about the president either. i can say this, i am concerned about the hunter biden situation. i think that u.s. attorney wise

has explaining to do. i did this, as you know, seven years. and it should not take five years to do a two-count misdemeanor tax plea and then to dismiss a gun charge. so what happened there? what were they doing all these five years? the tax cases are simple, direct cases with somebody like hunter biden. i don't know if that amounts to weaponization but it certainly should lead us to ask questions. i think either mr. wise or merrick garland has to come to the hill and answer questions. >> you said you would keep chris ray on the job, when i talked to you a month and a half ago. still the case? >> yes. >> and the former president attacked you online early this morning, i guess, number of accusations just to pick one he said you desperately wanted to join the trump administration but i said no. true? >> no, ridiculous, and let me explain, not that anybody should be surprised donald trump is not telling the truth when it served him. he offered me twice secretary of homeland security. >> he offered you? >> secretary of labor, and white

house chief of staff. and i said no each time. >> the reports you wanted to be attorney general. >> i would have considered attorney general at the beginning of the administration but it wasn't offered to me. and, to me the attorney general is the most independent position inside the administration if you do it the right way. i think bill bar did it the right way and showed how. but he made me chairman of the president's commission on opioids and drug abuse. i did take that because of how deeply i care about the issue and executed it for him. just on its face it is a lie, because i was a part of the administration by running that commission. he asked me to do it, not only did, but made me the chairman of it, and accepted all 120 of the recommendations that commission made to put into action. >> the beginning othis week we learned from the former president's attorneys they are trying to, or asked the judge in the documents case to "postpone any consideration of a new trial

date." do you think the december trial date they want is reasonable? >> hard to tell. >> do you think his lawyers' arguments are reasonable >> hard to tell. here is the tough part of it. the classified documents involved, you are either-- if they stay classified you are going to have to get people cleared on his defense team, and otherwise experts -- >> has the that was a reason, just handling the documents. >> the depends how many will be used as evidence and how long that will take. that could be a lengthy process. that is why i would have charged the case entirely differently. i would have charged obstruction, i wouldn't have charged those. obstruction case is clean, provable and carries substantial criminal penalties for it. i would have done it differently to take that out of place. i think the judge will look very carefully at the documents and how long she thingatize would take reasonably for both tides to be prepared. december is a long time.

you know, over six months to get ready. that may be enough. but the person, the best position to make the judgment is judge canon, and i am confident she will make the right decision. >> do you think the former president is trying to run out the clock? >> of course he is. >> no doubt about it. look, his fantasy situation is that this doesn't go to trial ever before the election, that somehow he gets reelected president, and then they won't be able to try him while he is in the white house. and then that will get delayed another four years, he will be 82 and they may just, you know, he hopes walk away. >> how concerned do you think he should be about the special counsel, indicted again in the 2020 election case? >> he should be concerned because when you look at it from the report, the depth of the investigation that is being done, it will be taken very seriously and methodically. whenever that happens you have to be on guard. i think he should be concerned about the case now. the allegations regarding national security documents, as

chris ray said in his testimony, are supposed to be maintained in a secure location. not at mar-a-lago, he lied about that. he lied about whether he had more documents, hid them from his own lawyers, as alleged in the indictment. and then also suggested they pull them out before they turn them to the government. it is classic obstruction case. i think he should be concerned about that because if he takes the case like that to trial, and loses, there is a presumption of jail time. >> you have said that, or indicated you were president, you would consider commuting sentence if he was found guilty. can you talk about that why? >> i would consider it because do, anderson, i am concerned about the idea of any president of the united states going to prison. and i think that we have to think about that very carefully. i don't think a pardon would necessarily be appropriate given what i know today. >> particularly, you said in the

past a pardon implies or requires somebody admits what they did and feels bad about it. >> accepts responsibility for it. i don't think that is ever possible with donald trump. but commutation of sentence is something i think anybody who rules that out before you see how all of the events unfold, has never had the power to do that. i have as governor, for eight years, i have commuted sentences and i have given full pardons as governor and it is a very solemn, careful process and not something that should be in a political campaign. >> governor chris christie, stand by. when we come back we will talk about your campaign and things on that front, also on the debate stage. want to see your plans. ahead, not your strategy-- >> not yet. >> former russian submarine commander assassinated according to media, while out for a jog, did his running app put a killer on his trail? we will be right back. ( sfx: engine revving )

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♪ ♪ your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. little more than a month until the first republican presidential debate in milwaukee, we are talking with contender chris christie. to fallify you need support of 1% in national polls, 40,000 unique donors, at least 200 unique donors in 28 states. are you there yet? >> yeah, i am glad to be able to tell people last night we went past 40,000 unique donors in 35 days. to give you perspective, because i ran eight years ago, in 35 days eight years ago we had

5,000. we have over 40,000 now. there is a donor in every state in america, and we have over 200 donors in 36 states. we really have broad support for the candidacy, we are thrilled about it. the good news, i think for the republican party, is that means i will be on a debate stage august. >> what does it say about the republican party that they trying to institute this loyalty pledge, i mean, the very fact your people are running against the former president would indicate they don't think he should be the president. >> well, i have said i think the loyalty pledge is a dumb idea. but it is a requirement to get on the stage. >> you have said you will do what i need to do to be on the stage. >> yeah and take it every bit as seriously as donald trump took it in 2016. we signed the pledge and at the next debate after we all signed the pledge, one of the questioners said you all signed, would you reaffirm by raising your hand? nine of us raised our hand and donald trump didn't. he said we will see.

said you signed it. see what happeners. >> what bout the pledge on florida to get on the ballt? >> i would treat it the same way. >> that is in writing. does that make a difference? >> i didn't think think that is in writing too. i haven't seen the document. i will seen sign the document, i think most important thing is to be on the stage to try to change your country,, and i really believe in the best person to take on joe biden and stoowin back those independents and suburban women, i did it when i was governor of new jersey, 61% of the vote for eelection there, 61% of hispanic vote, 22% of african american vote, in the most ethically diverse state in america. one of the blueest states in america, a million more registered democrats than republicans in new jersey yet i got 61% of the vote for reelection, if i have to sign the piece of pape to get on the stage, i will sign it and be serious about it and be able to bring the case to the people of the republican party. >> in a general election abortion is going to be a big

issue. iowa legislature they passed last night a bill that would ban abortion with some exceptions for rape, incest, and medical emergencies after a fetal heart beat after 6 weeks, many don't know they are pregnant then. do you think a 6-week ban should be a national standard? >> i don't think there should be a national standard now, i don't. we discussed this a couple weeks back in the town hall. >> six-week ban is appropriate? >> i think each state should make the decision on their own. and i think what you are going to find is over the course of time that states will be all over the map. so for instance my home state of new jersey, you can have an abortion up to 9th month. a lot of people, including me, find that to be unacceptable. >> i mean, i understand your position that this is a state's issue and voters there should decide. but you personally, do you believe a six-week ban is appropriate? >> i don't think quite frankly,

anderson, that any of us should get into that right now. what we should do is say what we have been saying for 50 years, which is to say to the people in the states, you go and decide now what is appropriate in your state. what you think matters. a lot of people think they know what that will be. let's take kansas, for instance, a red state, very republican, conservative state, yet they voted for a more pro-choice position. >> you don't think politicians running should be pinned down on what they actually personally deeply held beliefs feel? >> i am pro-life. i have said that before and took the position when i ran for governor of new jersey i believed in exception of rape and incess is and life of mother should be exceptions respected in my state, and i thought it was the position that should be adopted throughout the country. but as we are now getting down to this, you know, 20 weeks, 15 weeks, 12 weeks, 6 weeks, what i want to see is if a national consensus can be built by the states. that is the way the founders

intended this system to work on issues that were not specifically talked about in the institution. this was not, i think, decided rightly. i think you are seeing that great experiment happen throughout the states. what i would hope when i became president is all 50 states will have weighed in and that we can get a national consensus that we can get 60 votes for in the u.s. senate because you can't get anything done in the u.s. senate without 60 votes and i thing it very safe to say whether it was six weeks, 12, 15, 20, you could not get 60 votes in the united states senate for any of that. let's let the states do their work. >> on the economy you talk cutting spending, wondering where you are different than president biden on the economy, the latest numbers consumer prices came in, inflation fell to the lowest annual rate in more than two years, biden administration got a lot of criticism for inflation, should they get credit for that? >> no, the fed should get credit. the fed is the people that brought inflation down by raising interest rates. and what that has also done is

to make it much more difficult and expensive to borrow money in this country, which is tough on small businesses throughout this country and individuals who want to buy their first home or first car, remember, inflation has gone down this month, but over the course of the biden administration, it is still up 17%. while wages during that period have gone up 3%. there is a 14% gap there that has been absorbed by the american people and they feel it at the supermarket, at the gas station, and they will feel it in august when they go to buy back-to-school clothes. these affect real people. look, it is what killed jimmy carter's presidency, inflation. i believe it will be the same thing that lays waste to joe biden's presidency as well. no secret you are betting on new hampshire, how well do you have to do in new hampshire? do you have a benchmark? >> well. >> well. >> got to do wel>>ook, you got u can win some place. certainly i would like to win new hampshire. i think if i came in second in

new hampshire that would be a really good night too. given where we started, i am in third place now in new hampshire and all the recent polls, a few points behind governor desantis. so we are making progress in new hampshire, we are going to continue to make progress, we will work in south carolina as well. i try to make progress in south carolina. >> is the race this time different than you expected? >> yeah, it is different in that i thought more people would be out there articulating very clearly why donald trump would not be a good president. >> you are certainly the most prominent one, hutchinson has been as well, but the other candidates are not. >> no, and that is different. i think surprising. i don't know how you beat a clear front runner like donald trump without beating donald trump. >> what do you think they are expecting to happen? >> i think they hope somehow donald trump collapses from the weight of all of these criminal issues he has got, and that when

they haven't said anything negative about him they are hoping to then inherit some portion of those voters that otherwise would have voted for donald trump. i don't think that is the way politics works. i think if a dominant front run like donald trump were to drop out, a flawed thesis but that reshuffles the deck. >> if you or one of the other challengers manages to defeat the former president to get the nomination, how-- what is the chance of him coming saying the primary was rigged? >> given his history it is probably pretty good. but i think he will be a discredited figure if defeated again. that will mean he lost in 2018, when he lost the house, and 2020 lost the white house, and lost the united states senate for the republican part y. in 2022 lost two more governorships, and another seat in the united states senate. and led a horribly under performing house majority of five seats and now will have lost the primary 2024.

that makes him a four-time loser. i think at that point he can cry and complain all he wants, i am shirten he would. i think the republican party will unite behind whoever wins the primary other than donald trump. >> i know losers is like the greatest inicist for him. you keep saying loser. >> i didn't know that, but what i will tell you is it is true. here is what republican primary voters need, two things they need more than anything else. they need the truth. the truth matters and they haven't gotten the truth from joe biden or donald trump. secondly, they need results on the issues they really care about. donald trump said he would repeal and replace obamacare, he failed. he said he was going to build a wall, across the entire mexican border. as you know he built 47 miles of new wall, new wall, 47 miles in four years. at that pace of 12 miles a year, he would have to be president for another 50 years to be able

to build that entire wall. said mexico would pay for it, haven't gotten our first peso from the mexicans, and then said he would balance the budget in four years and he added $6 trillion to the national debt. those are all issues republican voters care about. they need someone who will deliver on those issues. i delivered on them in a blue state. that prepares me to go to congress and help deliver them as president. >> appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, according to russian media the former submarine commander was assassinated on a morning jog? was he tracked on a popular running app? the january 6th protester and the lawsuit against fox news. aphing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time.

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brazen and deadly attack in russia, the victim a former submarine commander shot and killed jogging in a park. this surveillance video appears to show him before he waps gunned down. can't independently verify the video. a suspect is in custody, the alleged killer may have tracked his location on popular exercise app, matthew chance joins us with more. what more do we know about what happened? >> reporter: this is a former russian submarine commander, anderson, his name is stanislav rzhitsky. you see from the video he was jogging in the southern russian city when shot several times apparently by a gunman. as you mentioned, the

interesting thing about that apparent murder is that stanislav rzhitsky was tracked on his running app, had taken the same route a number of times and the assassin was waiting along in a park in that route, whenther killing took place. he is a former submarine commander, he commanded a key low class of the crime that filed caliber missiles at various locations inside ukraine over the course of the past year, one attack in particular on the ukrainian town was carried out by a submarine which stanislav rzhitsky was linked to, although his family have said he took no part in the war in ukraine and had been com decommissioned after the conflict. they said he had no part.

never the less, he was linked to it in ukrainian websites. >> are there clues to who have been behind it? >> they have broadcast images of military personnel or police breaking into somewhere and seizing a suspect. that suspect is said to have links with ukraine, also the ukrainian defense intelligence agency, sort of military spy network, have issued an extra ordinarily detailed statement about the circumstances of stanislav rzhitsky's death, saying that he was shot several times with a pistol, that the weather was bad, so there wasn't any-- there weren't witnesses but they stopped short of saying, look, we carried this out. never the less, there has been an upsurge in the number of sort of attacks carried out across the border, or by ukrainian sympathizers in russia in the past couple of months and the

suspicion is this may be the latest example of that. >> matthew chance, thank you. tomorrow morning the commander of the u.s. coast guard will face tough questions about a damming report on sexual assault at the coast guard academy. the report was secret for years until cnn started asking questions, the hearing, a direct result of cnn's investigation. chief investigative coordinator pamela brown broke the story first and talks tonight to assault survivor whose said the coast guard's culture has not changed. >> new questions about the secret damming report called "operation failed anchor." it reveals history of substantiated sexual abuse, including rapes at the coast guard academy. according to documents viewed exclusively by cnn. the assaults were treated as minor misconduct by coast guard command, and were usually covered up. victims were often punished. the investigation ran from 2014 to 2019, but only reviewed sexual assaults from the late

1980s to 2006, leaving a major gap in its findings. >> the coast guard has failed the victims and the worst part is the culture and the environment that they still have at the academy is allowing this behavior to continue. >> carrie carwin said she was sexually assaulted in 1995, and even wrote about the incident in her journal at the time, saying a football player came to her room, "bit my neck, and felt up my chest." >> luckily i got away and he left but he said he was going to come back and finish what he started. i was terrified. this guy was bigger than me, stronger than me, and i didn't have a roommate. i didn't know how to protect myself. >> reporter: she reported her attack at the time, but the coast guard academy only gave him demerits and assigned him to write an essay. that same cadet would be accused of multiple other assaults, including rape, according to records viewed by cnn. >> we are not being attacked by somebody who is a complete stranger that we never see again, you are repeatedly getting traumatized by this individual because you are stuck

in the environment with them. >> car wn said she was hoping for change when the coastguard reopened her case, and dozens of others with operation faled anchor, but that didn't happen. >> you therewas no here is what the results were, and this is what we are doing about it, and this is the coast guard's way forward. >> reporter: instead, officials kept the problem secret for years, a course telling cnn, the report was "very centrally controlled, similar to how classified report would be treated." they only briefed congress last month after cnn started asking questions. now senators are demanding answers. >> >> we are looking for accountability, we want to know what steps have been taken to make sure this never happens again. >> this episode is probably the shameful and most disgrisful cover up of sexual assault i have seen in the united states military ever. >> of dozens of old sexual assault cases examined, only one person was ever prosecuted. the charge against him was dismissed when a court ruled the

statute of limitation had run out. many alleged perpetrators graduated from the academy and went on to high-ranking positions in the coast guard or other branches of the military. the man ended up retiring with full benefits. >> the victims don't feel the coast guard handled the situation well. they retired with benefits and victims have never stopped suffering. >> cnn has stopped to more than a dozen cadets assaulted over the years, some recently. >> we woman said she was raped three times just graduated from the coast guard academy last year. >> you have to wonder if they had released the report, if they had done more to crack down on sexual assault, how you your experience would have been different. >> i often find myself wondering what my future would have been

like. time and time again, the academy and the institution don't protect their people. it did nothing to save me when i was asking for help. it is devastating. >> reporter: the head of the coast guard, admiral linda feigen will testify tomorrow, a spokesperson told cnn most of the historical cases couldn't be prosecuted because they had to go by the law at the time of the offense and in the 1990s the court-martial definition of rape was very narrow. pamela brown, cnn, washington. still ahead tonight, he has been falselycused of leading an fbi plot to orchestrate the january 6th insurrection. ray epps is suing fox news. she followed charles manson in the 1960s, took part in a murder of a couple, ask now leslie van howden is out on parole. how that happened, next. tide. america's #1 detergegent.

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fox news is facing a new lawsuit, this time from ray epps, a january 6 protester targeted by conspiracy thereerest that he led a plot to orchestrate insurrections to make supporters look bad. fox news ran with the story and he is suing the channel accusing it and fox host tucker carlson of defamation. there is no comment from carlson or fox news. in the lawsuit today his legal team wtes in the after math of the events of january 6

fox news searched for a scapegoat to blame other than donald trump or the republican party. eventually they turned on one of their own. epps is living in hiding after receiving death threats. a look at how he got to this point, he talked to my 60-minutes colleague bill whittaker, here is clip from that report. >> what was the role of ray epps in the chaos of january 6th? the theory, epps, former member oath keepers was a former member bubbled up from a right wing news site called revival news, run by a former trump supporters, and landed on fox news prime time. >> according to a new investigation from revolver, epps may have lead the breach team that first entered the capitol. >> reporter: the conspiracy theory made its way to capitol hill. >> it is not the proud boys who

engage in initial breach, it is ray epps at that precise moment. >> how did ray epps know there would be pipe bombs? >> who is ray epps? >> reporter: that question animated fox news host tucker carlson for nearly two years. >> ray epps? he is on video several times encouraging crimes, riots, breaches of the capital. >> what made mr. epps finally decide to sue? >> he spent two years being lied about by fox news, the time had come for him to have his voice heard and make sure fox was held accountable. >> did mr. epps attempt tree volve this before filing the lawsuit? was there communications bout his concerns prior to it being filed? >> yes, absolutely. we reached out to fox in march, asked them to cease and desist speaking about mr. epps and lying, asked for retraction on air, the same amount of time and energy they put into the lies

and didn't get a response. >> i want to play more what he told 60 minutes about tucker carlson. >> he is obsesed with me, going to any means possible to destroy my life and our lives. >> why? >> to shift blame on somebody else. if you look at it, fox news, marjorie taylor greene, ted cruz, gates, they are all telling us before this thing that it was stolen. so you tell me. who has more impact on people? them or me? >> you say they spread falsehoods about epps, they have destroyed ray and robin's lives. can you explain what has the impact been on their lives? you said they are in hiding, essentially. >> yeah, they started receiving threats, death threats immediately upon the lies that

tucker carlson and fox were spreading about them. they found bullet casings in their property, they had voice mails that had threats about sleeping with your eyesopepen, text messages, inundated with messages to their business, they had people who were sending mail to them, death threats. people knew where they lived, people were drivering by with guns out of their trucks pointing them at the house to intimidate and scare ray and robin. so they had to flee because their safety was in jeopardy. the fbi checked on them, there were credible threats focused on ray. ricky shifer, if you remember that name, the man who attacked the fbi office in cincinnati, ohio in 2022, referred to ray in his truth social biography. ray was a focus of the right wing media and their viewers based on lies that tucker carlson and fox were telling about him. >> mr. epps was brought up in the committee hearing today with fbi director chris ray. i want to play part of that.

>> i think tucker carlson and some of inmember colleagues said ray epps was secret government agent helping encourage this crime so as to make the president look bad. do you have knowledge of ray epps being a secret government agent? >> no. i will say this notion that somehow the violence at the capital on january 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by fbi sources and agents is ludicrous and is a disservice to brave hard working men and women. >> that is the fbi director debunking the theory. do you think anything will put this to rest? >> i think finally having a jury find the lies were told about ray epps and awarding damages might put an end to it but the truth is that lies haven't mattered to fox or its viewers

for quite sometime. they put profits over people, they put fraud over facts, they put lies over legitimacy, i hope it will spell an end to it but at the least need to be held accountable for the lies. >> in the dominion lawsuit, one thing dominion was able to do early was reach out to fox producers at all levels of the company and others at fox and on air people with point-by-point refuting things they were saying on air and giving them facts. did mr. epps, was he able or attorneys able to reach out very quickly or is there evidence that you reached out throughout this, while they were airing these to inform them this wasn't true? that was helpful obviously in the dominion suit. >> right, they never reached out to ray directly. it seemed they would talk about it on air saying they would reach out to him or he could come on air. they never reached out to ray, he was not invited on. honestly i don't think had he

been invited he would have arrived and showed up because there is no point in fighting with somebody who is willing to tell lies about you over and over and over again. the facts were known from the get go, ray was of course not an fbi agent, but the january 6th committee discovered that, investigated, refuted the lies tucker carlson was telling on fox, and what did tucker say after that? he disputed them. he decided to focus on the fact the january 6th committee was covering up for ray epps. so that is how mr. carlson and fox deals with facts. they just refuse to recognize them. >> ray epps was a supporter of the former president, believed falsely the election was stolen. do you know if he is still supporting the former president? does he feel the former president has supported him? >> i don't think i should speak about ray's political views. i would say it has made him question fox, made him question trump generally for the lies the

former president and his supporters have told. >> according to the lawsuit in may of this year the fbi notified epps it would seek to charge him criminally. do you know when they will be charged? >> no, i am not able to really speak about the criminal side of the manner. >> michael teeter, appreciate your time. thank you. >> appreciate it. up next, a woman convicted of participating in a mansome family double murder is free. detail ahead including what a family member of the victim is saying. the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪

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more than 50 years ago, charles manson and his followers terrorized southern california and put the nation on edge. now a woman convicted of participating in a double manson killing, leslie van houten, is out of prison. she is now in her 70s. she was convicted to life behind

bars for her role in the 1969 killings of a couple in her home. >> he handed me a knife and he said do something. so i went in. and mrs. labianca was laying on the floor and i stabbed her. >> that's leslie van houten in 1994. she openedly shared details about the night she took part in a double murder which she said took place at the direction of charles manson. in 1969 when she was just 19, members of the cult known as the manson family killed supermarket executive leno labianca and list wife rosemary in their l.a. home. this is what van houten said when asked about where she stabbed her. >> in the lower back around 16 times. >> 16 times. after the couple was dead? >> sat in the bushes and had milk and cheese. >> the labianca murders took

place a day after the infamous tate murders. a august 9, 1969, the manson members murdered the wife of polanski. van houten was not involved in the tate murders. van houten was born in the los angeles area. she reportedly grew up going to church camp and singing in the choir. her father said she soon got involved with drugs. she became a himmy and began living at a commune. later was introduced to charles manson. she lived with the manson family as they were called, which was known for group sex and drug use and murders that terrorized the nation. at her trial, van houten claimed that rosemary labianca was already dead by the time she stabbed her, killed by other manson family members. she was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder. she was sentenced to death along withmanson and three other followers. their sentences were commuted to

life in prison after california abolished the death penalty. >> i really do not believe that anyone who kills two people and especially having, in such a brutal manner, should ever be let out of prison. >> van houten was denied parole over and over again. >> i'm no longer a danger to society. >> both california governor gachb newsom and his predecessor jerry brown opposed her appeals for release. so did the victims' family members. still, in may, after more than 50 years in prison, an appellate court overruled newsom's latest denial and released van houten to parole supervision. a spokeswoman for the governor said he was disappointed. >> she is a cold-blooded killer. with her release now, it is our fear that the flood gates and the california penal system will be unhinged. >> i understand why people, certainly the victim, the family

members of the victims, feel emotional about this and want retribution. but that's not the law. because she meets the standard of parole she's no longer dangerous. due process requires that she be released on parole. >> randy joins me now. what are her lawyers arguing that she's been rehabilitated in prison? >> her lawyer that she was in therapy in prison for 40 years. she was enrolled in what is called rehabilitative programming in prison to get parole in california. her lawyer said she was getting regular psych evaluations. now she is living in a transitional living facility. she'll be there for a year. and on parole for three years. it's worth noting even when she spoke to larry king in 1994. in prison interview, she had some pretty harsh words for charles manson. she called him an opportunist, vicious and cruel. she said she felt guilty in some part for creating what she called the monster.

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