tv CNN Tonight CNN July 14, 2023 12:00am-1:00am PDT
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>> it is nostalgia era. and so, even neon is coming back. we can talk about that for other reasons. but, thinking about the way that some would say, no, this is not an opportunity. there are critics that will say, hollyg, look, it's just music. there need not be a moment to politicize, or a sociological -ize >> well, if that were true it wouldn't have macon, i mean, the billboard chart started back in 1929 and it is 2023 and it is the first time a black woman has ever topped the charts as a songwriter, so if it wasn't as a race, how did we get this far without black women seeing success in the
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genre? and if there is some explanation i'm happy to find it, and we can figure out whatever it is, and we can fix it and move forward, because the only thing we want to see is for it to get better. a lot of people assume we are trained to call out or talk down on, but i am criticizing country music, because i love it and i wanted to be better and i want to feel safe in it, and i want people, like tracy chapman, to have their own success, without the deals bringing it to the top. >> it harkens back to james baldwin's famous quote. i love this country more than any of other, and i reserve the right to criticize it. >> holly g, thank you so much for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you so much for your time, laura. well, cnn tonight starts right now with john berman. hey, john, have a new song stuck in your head, enjoy. >> thank you so much for tracy chapman from massachusetts. in the meantime, the special counsel of jared kushner, is ron desantis the new jeb bush? and it turns out the safest point on earth to hide your stash is the white house.
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i am john berman, and this is cnn tonight, or cnn, very nearly tomorrow, and tomorrow we might still be counting the new development in the investigation into donald trump, because they have been coming in every few minutes. jared kushner before the grand jury, hope hicks before the grand jury. alyssa griffin before federal prosecutors and we will get to all of it. but at the center of it, three major questions that, perhaps, reveal what the special counsel is up to. now, a warning to our viewers, these might seem insultingly obvious, or simple, but they are legally pivotal. number one, did donald trump know he lost the election? number two, did donald trump say he lost the election? number three, how on earth could he not have known he lost the election, and are you actually serious this could be a viable defense? this is at the forefront tonight, cnn has confirmed that the president's son-in-law testified before the grand jury, investigating donald trump's actions around january
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5th. "the new york times" repts that jared kushner was asked that if he er heard trump acknowledge he asked lost the election. kushner is set to have maintained that it was his impression that mr. trump truly believed the election was stolen , according to a person briefed on the matter. however, we also know that former trump communications director and cnn contributor, farrah griffin, has been interviewed by federal prosecutors, and she earlier told the january 6th committee that trump said to her after the election quote, can you believe i lost to joe biden? there were also new development of the mar-a-lago documents case, with a special counsel lashing out at the team for the request to delay the trial. we will have more on that shortly. first, what did trump know, and how could he not have known it? michael cohen, donald trump's former attorney, and man of the podcast, principle of crisis act and author of revenge. but first, michael, standby, i want to bring in senior legal
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analyst, ellie honing. and ellie, i want to bring in this line of questioning and set the legal framework for this discussion. why is the special counsel asking people, did donald trump know he lost the election? >> because they are trying to establish content intent. i the way, the hardest thing for a prosecutor to do. the best possible way you could establish that donald trump knew he lost is acknowledging that he knew he lost. we saw a lot of testimony in the january 6th committee that said donald trump was told he lost, bill barr told him that he lost, if uncle trump told him that he lost. that is okay, but the problem is there were other people, maybe delusional people, rudy junior giuliani telling him there has been massive fraud and you need to fight it, so the best possible proof he knew what he was doing wrong and that he had to know it was unlawful is if he acknowledges it or colleagues testimony seems to acknowledge it. >> let me play testimony before the january 6th committee from
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both alyssa farrah griffin and joint chief of staff chair, mark millie, who did suggest that trump said some version of he lost, or he knew. listen. >> so, we are in the oval and there is a discussion going on, and the president says i think it could have been pompeo, but he says words to the effect of, yeah, we lost. we let that issue go to the next guy. >> i remember maybe week after the election was called i popped into the oval, just to, like, the president headlines and to see how he was doing and he was looking at the tv and said can you believe i lost to this f and guy? >> so, what you do is you produce that testimony to a jury or grand jury and you say you believe this? if you believe farrah griffin and mark millie, there you go. there is the intent. that is a crucial part of the case. that is why this test money is so important. there may be other testimony of jared kushner saying i don't believe he actually thought he
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lost. we are getting into sort of epistemological questions about what is in his mind, how does one ever know what they know? so, to be so clueless, or to be so misinformed, or misguided, to think or believe that you lost the election or won the election, should say, that could be a viable defense? >> i think the category we would follow under legally is advice. here i am, donald trump, i have these lawyers, rudy giuliani, sidney powell, telling me that i could fight this, or using the example of pressuring mike pence, former supplant supreme court clerk, he's telling me the vice president does have this authority, i can rely on that. that is the defense. >> okay, counselor, standby. michael cohen, obviously you were persona non grata for sometime before any of this actually happened, however he has spent a lot of time with donald trump. you know how he talks. you know how he thinks. as you look at this do you honestly think he didn't know? or believe he lost the election?
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>> he never thought he would lose to joe biden. that is true. he never thought he could possibly lose. he considers joe biden to be a loser. and as a loser, how could he, as a winner, lose to a loser? that is the superior circular nonsense that goes on inside of donald trump's head. what he is going to end up saying, how they are going to prove intent by donald? it is a very difficult, ellie and i have had this conversation dozens of times, dozens of times, where i have always said that donald is going to play the intent card. >> he believes he won. >> if he doesn't believe that you will never know, because that is what a narcissistic sociopath will do. they convince themselves that they are right, even though they know they are wrong, but they will never admit it, and they will continue to perpetuate the lie again and again and again, until such time as everybody believes the lie. >> you were there a long time when he said a lot of things that were untrue. >> did he believe those things?
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>> what he does is he will convince himself by saying it over and over and over. it is a stalinist approach. >> ellie, if i can bring you back in, i am a narcissistic sociopath, is that a viable defense? >> i don't think it is. and i want to make it clear, you can't just say, well my attorney told me something, hence, it is over. you can't get away with anything. it has to be within the realm of reason. you can't say my attorney told me it was okay to shoot that person, to rob a bank. so there will be a argument that will this advice be reasonable? but you know this, donald trump is expert at using his attorneys as blast shields. >> yeah, scapegoats, then he will also turn around and attack general millie, he will turn around and attack melissa farrah, that is what he does, he starts off with the attack, he continues the attack, he gets his acolytes, in order to continue the attack, in order to discredit them, and he will
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continue to do this. they just have an ax to grind with me. they don't want me to be president again, because i fired them, or he will make up some story that we all know is not true, but he will try to convince you that that story is true. >> so, jared kushner was in the hot seat before the grand jury, someone you know also, how do you think he felt about being there? >> so, this is puzzling to me, because we all have to acknowledge that jack smith is a consummate professional, and being someone who has been before the grand jury, why would jack smith bring jared kushner? >> be for this country? >> no, a different grand jury, the manhattan da. i would jack smith bring jared kushner to the table? unless you already knew what jared is going to say, and ellie, of course can speak to that at greater length, but there is no way that jack smith brought jared in there to impeach, you know, the information, or the testimony that he has. that is just not how the grand jury system works. >> so, the reason you put jared
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kushner in the grand jury is to find out what he has to say. you can use the grand jury to explore, sometimes you take a witness who you know might be a problem for you, might give testimony favorable to the defendant, great, let me find that out now, let me know it is coming. but i think all of the sort of really highlights why this is a more difficult case when we get to intent than the documents case, right? documents case you can prove his intent by the fact that he had it, by his statements, his effort to obstruct, audiotapes of him talking about the information. it is a good example of why this is a trickier case, not impossible, but trickier case for prosecutors. >> i agree with him, i can't argue with ellie on that one. >> jared kushner. how do you think he feels about being pulled back in, like godfather three. every time he thinks he's out he gets pulled back in. >> sure. he is unhappy about it. look, the entire familial relationship has gone south. we see jared and yvonne, stepping away, and i said it on a cnn program about a year ago, that i do believe that jared and yvonne, where the inside moles.
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not that i have any information to prove it. >> you think they were the ones talking to-- >> yes, because jerry does not want to see the inside of a prison cell. he knows what it's like through his father's eyes. he knows how difficult it was for him and his siblings. he doesn't want to do the same thing to his children. i have always believed it, and especially the fact that jared was always known in the white house as the secretary of everything, and with all of the things that went on, how come there is no investigation into jared? comes out several months later 2 billion from the saudi's, there is no investigation into the relationship between him and saturday, when he has absolutely no capability, and he has never run anybody's money before? to the point that the finance committee of the saudi investment of 30 says he doesn't meet our criteria. but there is no investigation.
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>> there is one thing you just said, brynn gingras five, that i want you to weigh in on, because michael was suggesting that jared will tell the truth , or say whatever is really happening to the prosecutors, because he doesn't want to end up in prison, because his father did serve time, so jared will be careful to be honest, to the investigators. doesn't that mean if he is telling them that donald trump always believed he won the election? >> yeah, there are things you have to tell the truth about and things that you know that nobody is going to be a cross- check, right? so, there is a difference between sort of lying about a disposable fact, versus, maybe shading your impression of what may have been in someone husky mind. and the reporting is that it was always jared's impression that donald trump actually thought he won. that is different than him saying we had a heart to heart about it, and he was absolutely convinced. >> yeah, you've been around him a long time, does he slip up and say things, like alyssa, our friend, alyssa vera, saying
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i can't believe i lost to the sky, do you think it is plausible that he at some point ring that three month said yeah, i lost her this really passes me off? >> absolutely. and he probably sat there moaning and growing and crying to multiple, anybody that would listen. that is just how he does it. he will speak to anyone in order to put out a grievance, or to complain about something, which is probably like, how could i have lost? i can't believe that i lost to him. >> well, you will turn around and say that he never believed it and then again, as ellie just said, it is one of those facts that is not provable unless he comes out and tells the truth, and you know donald is never going to tell the truth. >> okay, ellie, so, if the special counsel has been going down these various avenues and has sort of conflicting testimony about what, trump said or didn't say, if he lost the election, believe or didn't believe he lost the election, does that close off any avenue of prosecution? >> no, not necessarily. if you have testimony that has been mixed bag, you have the
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right and discretion is a prosecutor to say, not just i believe side a as opposed to side b, but side b is more reasonable and backed up by evidence, this is important, if, as a prosecutor, you get evidence favorable to a defendant, you have to turn that over. that is part of your obligations. >> not unless it is the southern district. >> that's get into michael's beef. >> other crimes that the special prosecutor that would not require belief or knowledge that he lost the election? >> i think there are. even if donald trump genuinely thought he won the election, there is a point that you cannot go beyond. you cannot threaten an election official. you cannot extort or shakedown an election official even if you think you have actually won. >> mcdonald doesn't care about rules, and he doesn't care about the law. he will push that limit to the line, past the line, and then past that line, and then try to pull it back and claim that it wasn't me, it was 70 else. >> ellie, news, late today, that the special counsel's
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office has filed for the judge, that the argument in the trial in the mar-a-lago documents case should not be delayed until after the election, which is what the trump team say they wanted. and some people described it as, you know, a scathing response. they note that there isn't as much testimony and documents to gohrough, that there isn't much footage to go throughout the defense team says, that, you know, they can see the jury inim what about this? >> is a lukewarm response in my view, it is not a ripping apart in my view, look, let's just look at this objectively. donald trump's team, let's forget about the political issue, just pure fact here. donald trump husky team says we have been given 800,000 documents, nine months of video footage, there is no trial that has gone to trial from indictment to trial in anything like six months. they give examples of cases that took three years, and really, all the drgs j says yeah, there's 800,000 documents, but we told them which 4000 are the most important, that doesn't cut it. you still have to go through the mall as a defense lawyer,
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and i should say, even the doj is unable to show a single classified document that ever went to trial in six months. >> does donald trump think he is ever going to try on this? >> what he is going to try to do is, right out of the trump playbook, delay, delay, delay the action, as the plaintiff, we have now asked for his deposition, delay, delay, delay. they want to do it 90 days after the election, well, who brings a case and then decide they want to do it 90 days after the election, which is it in like 17 months, i mean, that is the donald trump playbook, in his mind, he thinks that he is going to be able to delay the system, they will do whatever they can, they will have his lawyers file more frivolous actions and motions, until such time as the campaign will be in full force, he will already be super tuesday, it will be, you know, he will be right, heavy on the trail, and he will claim that it is unfair that they are impeding on his ability to run. >> michael cohen, thank you so much for coming in. i appreciate your work as always. next, why are ron desantis donors sniffing around
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past the pain, and past your limits. no matter what, we go on. biofreeze welcome back to cnn tonight, or cnn very nearly tomorrow. and now, ron desantis is in iowa, hoping it gets easier to be ron desantis, because at this moment, it seems awkward. look at the headlines tonight, from political. top donors souring ron desantis, from nbc, confidential desantis can't pay memo, looks to reassure donors amid stumbles. from rolling stone earlier, murdoch starts to sour on desantis. they can smell a loser. you know the old saying, with fox like this, who needs enemies . that is, well, awkward. the terrific radical political report writes anything could
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happen, but it is remarkable how the desantis hype cycle has followed the 2015 scott walker trajectory, most beat for beat. now, that is not a comparison any republican would want. walker went nowhere. he is on the mount rushmore of gop candidates who were supposed to be all that and turned out all dead. jeb bush? exclamation point. you can clap now. or, for history buffs in 1998, upwards of $1 million, that is 40 million into the's dollars and famously ended up with a single delegate item mills of arkansas. >> a lot of shade for desantis, who is still number two in all the polls, with all of kinds of money. but the political case says donors quote, faith in the florida governor has been shaken by early campaign missteps in his hard-line positions on abortion, transgender rights and other culture were issues. so, that might be the why, but what next? well, cnn has confirmed that donors, including desantis backers are meeting with south
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carolina senator, tim scott. now, both desantis, and tim scott will be at the family leadership summit tomorrow in iowa. yes, tomorrow's news tonight. that could be awkward, why? because nbc reports there is this new desantis campaign memo th mentions scott and reads quote, whileim scott has earned a serious look this stage, his bio is lacking the fight that our electorate is looking for the next president. we expect tim scott to receive appropriate scrutiny in the weeks ahead. so, if you follow the bouncing ball there, desantis donors meet with scott, desantis campaign swipes at scott. there are few coincidences in politics. so, just how awkward will it be in iowa? with me now, jay michelson, a rolling stone columnist, and david bourbon, a column and former trump campaign advisor, gentleman, i appreciate you being with us, i will ask that you bear with me in the form of multiple-choice
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questions. >> i love it. >> why are desantis donors sniffing around elsewhere? a? because he is being manhandled by donald trump? b, because of the war on woke? c, because he is awkward? or d, why pick a fight with disney? >> where is all of the above? >> where is all of the above? >> you can pick that. >> you talk about the nbc reporting earlier in this piece here. if you read the memo, the memo itself was an embargo for desantis friends and family that the strategy is to do more earned media, and educate more of the electorate about the benefits of ron desantis, one, he is a veteran, and two, he is a dad, and when they find that out that will magically rise to the polls that is what the memo says, and they are sing we are saving our money, not put any money to super tuesday, and i've got a little bit of news, they will not have to worry about super tuesday if they don't get focused on these
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early states and do a little better than just being a dad and a veteran. so, we will see, it is a long way away, but things aren't going so well. >> i've covered a lot of campaigns. in a campaign that is not going well, at one point the campaign staff says if they only knew the candidate better he would be doing better. >> although, in this case it doesn't actually seem to be the case. the more voters get to know ron desantis, the more he can seem a little bit off were awkward and not quite, you know, maybe he looks better on paper than actually in person, and personally for me i feel a sort of mixed emotions. on the one hand, desantis was kind of a weak candidate. so, someone on the progressive side i would've loved to see them in the general. on the other hand, he is causing real harm to vulnerable populations, and i was concerned, you know, being in the lgbtq community myself and caring about these issues i was really worried. these are, people aren't really quite all on the same page or on these issues, and there's a lot of space for respectable disagreement, but desantis didn't do that, right? he went way to the extreme, banning books and banning all kinds of medical care and just going way, way beyond where the center is, and so i am gratified, really, that that has been rejected.
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>> that really is upsetting to donors? look at donors. >> here's another interesting thing to think about. in 2020 elections, 2022 elections occur, ron desantis is the hero right? the hero of 2022 right, trump is blamed for the downfall of the party, and that is, so, november, the day after the election, ron desantis is going to be president, and then he does something very unusual, if he doesn't become the president, they will look back and he says i won't get back until the legislative session is over, and then it everything just kind of went quiet from desantis, trump got indicted, he became super popular again and people forgot about ron desantis. and when he got in the race he was kind of bait at that point. so, i think that will come back to haunt him. >> the same nature. he left a vacuum there. question number two. why is tim scott a unique threat to ron desantis? a, because he is more likable, if you believe that? b, because he represents the new republican party, south carolina is a early state, or there are people in the senate like tim scott?
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>> he is not a culture warrior. we were talking before we came on.'s positions actually are on the curve conservative end of the party, but he is not staking out this very course position, like desantis did, so he has got a softer touch a more appealing, it seems, personally, he is a comparing progressive. >> are you more scared of tim scott as a progressive? >> oh yeah. it's tough for progressives in the selection. want to keep the white house, but the risk of having donald trump be the nominee is terrifying, it keeps me up at night. >> i want to jump ahead to some reporting from cnn, some terrific reporting on angst within the democratic party about the biden campaign. and couple of quotes from this next november and everyone says how did it happen, one of the questions will be what was the biden campaign doing in december of 2023. here's another quote, i'm not sure
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which is harder, getting people to focus on the campaign are getting people excited about it. so, double choice, democratic concerns about the wedding campaign are letter a? >> we talk too much, we have to say only one letter. >> a, spot on, b, predictable, democrats, c, what you get with an 80-year-old candidate, or people have underestimated biden again and again? >> look, i don't think this is necessarily about age specifically., mccartney's 82, bob dylan is 83. everyone is different, but the fact is joe biden does not seem to have the kind of control that he used to have, he doesn't seem to have the sharpness that he used to have and it is very, we have to be careful, we don't want to stigmatize somebody based on their age. at the same time, this is the reality with this candidate. we don't know how he will perform on a debate stage. we don't know who he is even going to be 12 months from now. and it is very worrying because so much feels at stake, especially if he is running.
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>> some of the reporting, david, our colleagues, has said to me personally and this reporting, he is very concerned, there's no apparatus, he is not raising money, doesn't have staff. it doesn't give the appearance that he is running, by what he is putting together, and people are looking at fundraising numbers going to come out of they will compare the obama numbers and say look, he's a sitting president, he should've raise more money, what is he doing. so there's a great reason to be alarmed, plus he is using the ministers on air force one now. >> you know, i would take the elevator if i could. , great to see you both, thank you so much for playing. i really appreciate it. so, you want to leave a bag of cocaine somewhere you will never get caught? how about the white house? that is next.
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basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. so, in the breakfast club, jeff nelson heights is back of illegal drugs down the pants of anthony michael hall. it worked, but barely. it turns out a much safer place to hide your stash is the white house.
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last night we told you tomorrow's news would be about the back of cocaine found in the white house, and now tomorrow is tonight, and the secret service says they don't know who left the cocaine there, and they will never know who left the cocaine there. who needs your best friend, sophomore, when you have 1600 in sylvania avenue. they say they passed by the spot it was found, there's no identifying evidence on the bag itself and no cameras pointed at the cubby where it was discovered. let's bring in cnn law enforcement analyst and former secret service agent for jonathan. >> i think the question a lot of people have is, okay, really? >> now what? >> i mean, really? let's just take part of it. no camera pointing anywhere near the cubby where it was found? is there anywhere in the white house that is a blind spot like that? >> well, listen, it is a blind spot, but it is a blind spot by design, and when you look at the hearing that they had today, the briefing, part of it was behind closed doors, but part of it is classified, and there's a reason why there are cameras in certain locations of
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the white house that are part of the security structure and not in others. now, you have to think about, with the location that this item was found in the cubby, right on the ground floor of the west wing, who comes in and out of that door? what meetings are being held right there. do you want those interactions, video recorded? because people who are coming in may be going to the situation room, they may be to intelligence officials that are meeting with, maybe foreign counterparts. so, there is a design to the white house in this instance, that design didn't pick up a criminal act from a threat perspective, the white house, you know, is extremely secure, they address their threats every single day, whether they are weapons, explosives, michael, biological, radiological, from a criminal aspect, the secret service now has to go back and redesign some programs to make sure this doesn't happen again. >> all that thought again. i want to play some reaction from a republican congressman to this revelation or lack of a revelation. >> i don't know who it is, and they, it is a complete failure. i mean, this thing is
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ridiculous. >> all right, so, to what extent is that political outrage versus procedural outrage. what is the right thing for oversight purposes to be mad about, when it comes to this? >> so, let's define what failure is. right? the primary point of the secret service at the white house is to ensure that the complex in the president is protected from threats. this, the introduction of cocaine into this environment was a criminal act, it is not primarily what they do. so, if you are sing that the secret service failed? no. on the identification of the substance they thought it was a threat. they thought it was racing or anthrax. they took every appropriate measure to mitigate that situation and secure the white house. once it was determined that it was a substance that was not of harm to the complex or the president, then it became a criminal investigation. so, where's the failure?
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is it in the criminal investigation? is the secret service laid out why today they couldn't solve and make attribution. one, there was no forensic evidence. if there is no fingerprints, no dna evidence and no video evidence how are you able to identify the pool of almost 600 potential people as to who did it in the attribution there. the reality is that the secret service had been telegraphing the difficulty of this investigation from day one on making attribution. you may just not be able to solve it. >> you think it will be harder to get cocaine into the white house? >> slightly hotter john, slightly harder. >> just wanted to know for factual purposes. thank you very much. >> on the run, potentially armed and dangerous. officials are warning pennsylvanians who might be planning on hiking or camping in the woods to watch out for an escaped and made. what could possibly go wrong? okay. i'll work on that. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. shop now only at sleep number.
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planning a trip to the pennsylvania woods this weekend? well, police would like you to keep an eye out for any trace of an escaped inmate who could be in the wild. i don't want to make light of it, but what could possibly go wrong? >> people were out hiking or biking or whatever in the woods, and through the area, in the coming days, particularly with the weekend there would be an influx of people. we are asking them to be alert to anything like that, and if they see something, give us a call. >> so, they are still searching for the escaped inmate, they believed to be armed and extremely dangerous. take a look at michael charles burr him. police say he escaped through a hole in the prison's rooftop, dropping down using bedsheets tied together. new tonight, this stockpile you are looking at right there is one reason why authorities believe he is still in the pennsylvania area. we want to bring in senior law
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enforcement analyst, chief charles ramsey he's, thanks for being with us. the stockpiles we just showed there are thought to be burr hams. how significant is that? >> it is very significant, and it leads us to believe you still in that area. the question is, how did he get that particular stockpile, i mean, did someone provided for him, does he have an accomplice? did he steal it? but they believe he is still in the area. i'm sure they did forensic analysis on the items they found to determine whether or not it belongs to him or not. prince, dna, things like that. and i would bet that they have found something pretty significant that really leads him to believe he is still in that area. >> you heard the warning to people who might be hiking in the woods this week and also the call for help from people who might be there. what concerns you most about the fact tt he could be hiding out where other people might be? >> wl, he's a pretty dangerous individual and if you are out there camping or whatever, he's trying to survive. i mean, i don't think he would
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be above taking a hostage, certainly, stealing other items, so he can continue to survive. people need to really pay attention to their surroundings there. if it were me, i don't again would be camping in that park this particular weekend, until they find this guy. but this is such a huge expanse. i mean, it is right at the allegheny national course which is about 1 million acres or so. so, it is almost impossible to totally shut it down. keeping people from going in there completely. but they are going to do what they can, trying to alert people, make them aware that this individual is potentially out there, and anything at all that seems suspicious, they should get police a call immediately. >> so, one of the quirky things about this case is that officials say they are looking into a drone that was heard flying immediately adjacent to the jail, just before the escape. so, why might that be relevant?
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>> well, i mean, they are looking into the possibility that he had an accomplice. that this was a planned escape and not just something that randomly happened. i mean, is not easy to get t of a detention facility, and this person was able to not only get out, t do it fairly quickly. my understanding is a guard actually saw on video that he was going to escape and by the time he was able to alert other guards he was already gone. so, they are looking at that possibility. did he have help from the inside? someone from the outside? so, that would play into that theory, and that is why they are trying to trace the source of that particular drone, to see whether or not that leads them anywhere. >> how long do you think this manhunt might last? >> i don't know. the longer it goes, the more difficult it becomes. it's like any criminal investigation you have, you want to try to wrap it up as quickly as possible. hopefully they can contain him in this area, because the more time that goes by toteal a car, you can do a variety of
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things to get out of the area, and of course, then that just expands the search grid into other states and other jurisdictions and just makes it more difficult. >> chief, charles ramsey, always good to see you, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> can't wait for a new season of your favorite tv show? well, you might be out of luck.'s because the actors are joining the writers on strike. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage so we don't have to worry about it" conversation. so you're calling about the $9.95 a month plan -from colonial penn? -i am.
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by no leftist, ronald reagan. safeguards against artificial intelligence taking their jobs, which is notable, given the limits of arnold schwarzenegger's acting in the terminator. that aside, for writers and actors, these are serious issues, existential, they say, and likely not to be solved anytime soon, which means a complete halt of scripted entertainment on screens. tv and movies, gone. nothing new. which is why you might need to find a good book, which it turns out we are not doing so much anymore, in a recent gallup poll, american say they get an average of 12.6 books a year, or did during the past year, the lowest number since they started counting. one study found americans spent just 50 minutes a day reading. that is not going to fill the hole, so what will? for that, we did some internet research on what people did for leisure, before tv and movies. the library of congress has all information about leisure time.
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for one thing, swimming. great, except for the sharks and sea otters attacking surfboards, which is really happening in california. rollerskating. it is a fat the library of congress say began in the 1880s and is still precious today. then the internet turned out this leisure time favorite from the 1740s and 50s. attending public dissections. watching corpses get taken apart. public dissections were a big deal then, so much so, they needed new space to do it. there was actually a boom in building, called anatomical theaters. seously. one built in paris in 7074 is said to have concentric rows of seats in the high balcony, supported by eight door columns and notable faulted basement. originally, it could accommodate 180 people. so, that is life without scripted television. for more, let's bring in our senior data reported, harry.
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so, this is why it is so important, harry, how much time do amecans spend watching tv? >> nielsen had atudy out from the last quarter of st year, it was 294 minutes on average per day. 294 minutes. that is not one hour, that is not two hours, that is not three hours, that is not four hours, it is more than five hours. this includes streaming, obviously. basically anything that is connected to your television. so, this, my dear friend, could be a disaster, because what are we going to do? we are going to do reading? i don't think we are going to be doing reading. >> they 15 minutes a day. that will not fill the void. >> no, it ain't going to fill the void. i'm honestly hoping maybe a few more people well, you know, not only read, but maybe watch a little news, maybe? >> strikes have happened before, we've seen them with the actors, the writers, one time in 1960, how does it tend to change what is on air? >> there's a few things. number one, go back to a strike in the late 80s, a writer's
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strike. we saw the development of the show, cops, actually came on the air, because of a writer's strike. it was a direct delineation from it. mission impossible made a recent occurrence. they used scripts from the 1960s. moonlighting, a great show, obviously, with bruce willis. that show basically couldn't get the scripts going on time. it was one of those shows where they wrote up until the last minute. it was one of the last things because of that strike. >> by the way, it is not clear there will be a fix anytime soon. >> one of the things that i think is just so important to realize about the strike versus the ones in the past as times have changed, john. for example, the last time there was a writer's strike i was in college. but it is also about what our viewing habits, and what we have changed there, right? so, streaming was not really a thing. youtube was not really a thing
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back in 2008, right? in 2007. in fact, the percentage of americans watch stuff on youtube, get this. back in 2007, 2008, it was only 11% of americans. now we are up to the upper 70s on that measure. so, perhaps we will go and use youtube more. another thing you were mentioning, john, his reading, right? fewer americans are reading than ever before. so, right now the percentage of americans who read at least a little bit per day's less than 20%. that is not particularly high. it was higher back in the early to thousands, when it was a little bit closer to 30% of americans. so, the fact is we are talking about reading. not sure americans are going to do that, but they may go watch some fun clips on youtube, perhaps some moonlighting clips. >> we are talking about a lot of people and their likelihood, there are a lot of jobs on the line. hopefully they will reach a solution soon.
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harry, thank you so much for all of this. as always, i asked for threads. this time i asked for you to give me advice on how to sign off tonight. so, this comes from command three 3rzr. had given him. for now, i'm john berman, and for now tomorrow is tonight. attention... are you suffering from hearing loss? the fda has finally approved hearing aids to be sold over the counter. and now, rca, introduces their revolutionary otc
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