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tv   CNN Tonight  CNN  July 14, 2023 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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the trash can, it wasn't like i went into -- >> a garbage -- >> into a compost thing and stuffed it in so i took it and put it in the garbage pail then went to sleep and woke up and i said i'm ordering some breakfast. get me -- order me something, get some coffee and she said don't forget to take your emmy out of the garbage can. >> we hope his future emmys stay out of the trash. good luck to all of our guests at the awards ceremony on september 18th. thank you for watching. you can catch my full interviews with ronna mcdaniel and goldie hawn any time you want on max. please join us here on cnn every friday night to find out "who's talking" next. a new reported target letter issued by the special counsel. why full body contact is all the rage in presidential politics and there is no business in show
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business. i'm john berman, and this is contract condition condition tonight" or cnn very nearly tomorrow or very nearly next week and that could be a big one into the investigations into donald trump. this week alone has seen a litany of activity. on monday trump lawyers filed a motion to delay any criminal trial, the classified documents case till the 12th of basically never. on tuesday a grand jury was selected in georgia that could indict trump for election interference there. on thursday special counsel jack smith urged judge cannon to reject his delay, delay strategy and found out trump's son-in-law jared kushner testified before the grand jury in the doj investigation into trump's role in january 6th. new today, trump's team filed a petition in georgia to throw out evidence and disqualify fulton county d.a. fani willis. also today a cnn exclusive, sources say the secretaries of state for both pennsylvania and new mexico have been interviewed
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by federal prosecutors in the election probe, and "the new york times" reporting that a low-level employee at the trump organization has received a letter from the special counsel on the documents case warning of a possible indictment. this is a target letter. the employee testified before the grand jury possibly about security camera footage at mar-a-lago and prosecutors are trying to determine if the testimony was truthful. so, if that all seems like a lot, it's because it is a lot. next week too on tuesday, judge aileen cannon will hold her first hearing in the classified documents case. the hearing will be about how to handle classified information involved in the case. so, with all of this i have to catch my breath. how will trump's team handle in the words of ba tbananarama, th cruel, cruel summer. the news that came most recently, this "new york times" report of a target letter in the mar-a-lago documents case to
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this low-level trump organization employee. the bigger picture, what does that tell you? >> we shouldn't overlook it because it broke shortly ago. prosecutors send target letters when they believe somebody in is a punitive defendant. you don't have to send target letters but we know jack smith and his team do because they sent one to donald trump shortly before making him a defendant. so this person is now a likely not definite but likely defendant and one more potential defendant means one more potential cooperator. >> yeah, when you hear low level, don't necessarily dismiss it because low level may actually mean fruitful in some ways. >> low level can make big cases. >> all right. take a step back here. with all this information that we just outlined, there was a ton of it there and all the questions that we now believe the special counsel is asking in the elections probe. if they were to make a case against donald trump on january 6th, what would that case be?
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how would they do it? >> let's see, may it please the court, your honor, this is a conspiracy. this was a plot. the person behind it was donald trump. the goal was to steal the 2020 election. this was a plot built on a lie, the lie that donald trump won the election when he in fact had not. donald trump and his people, you would argue got together and did everything in their power to tale that election. they created fake documents saying these are the electors, people had not been elected of the they had been elected for joe biden and not donald trump and sent them to the archives and pressured state and local officials asking them to find votes, trying to get them to throw the electoral votes and pressured mike pence when all else failed to violate his oath and the constitution, to throw away electoral votes and when that failed donald trump made an inflammatory speech ellipse pointing his people toward the capitol where they went and destroyed the place. that's the argument that this was all a plot and that donald trump should be charged. >> all right, just to make one thing clear, you just made that
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case because i asked you to, not necessarily because you believe it's a super strong case. >> right. >> or that they will bring that case just if there is a case that's what it might look like, so similarly i'm going to ask you, what specifically do you think based on everything we've seen trump could if he is becharged with? >> it's important we be specific. people say january 6th, pressuring the vice president, those things are not crimes. here's what could be the crimes. first of all, obstruction of an official proceeding. trying to stop congress from counting the electoral votes, that charge has been brought against over 300 people who stormed the capitol successfully by doj. you also have conspiracyo defraud the united states. that sort of a bigger, broader view of the conspiracy like i just laid out trying to steal the election. then you have false statements, that relates to the elector certificates i talked about, they claim these people have been elected to vote for donald trump, in fact, joe biden had won those states then a very long shot i don't think will -- i think there's legitimate
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questions about all these but potentially incitement for inciting the rite. i don't think it will stand. donald trump's words at the ellipse were too ambiguous and did say at one point, you need to be peaceful and patriotic but it's theoretically possible. >> we haven't heard of any questions about that specifically. stand by, if you will. i want to bring in former assistant special watergate prosecutor jon sale. thank you so much for being with us. you heard a former federal prosecutor lay out a possible case against donald trump for january 6th. so, what would a possible defense against those charges be? >> well, elie and a are alumni of the southern district, so i want to say elie gave an eloquent opening statement. and the defense is simple. the defense is lack of criminal intent. i want to say something about the special counsel or that the
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special counsel, jack smith, was not appointed to indict donald trump. he was appointed to do a thorough investigation, analyze the facts and the law, and if it turns out that people are responsible for this attack upon democracy for this threat to the peaceful transition of power, but the evidence doesn't go as high as donald trump, the special counsel has not failed in his obligation. he's going to just call it the way he sees it. so, but i think the whole case is about intent. there's not any question what happened. we all watched it. i mean, the american people are witnesses. if it was a witness list, there would be 2 or 300 million people who would be put on the witness list. it's a matter of whether or not donald trump had the requisite criminal intent and he goes around the country now saying, the election was stolen. the election was stolen. he is maybe playing that card that he just did not have the
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criminal intent necessary for any of the charges that elie laid out. >> because he's basically proving this theory would go, that he believes that the election was stolen, correct? >> yeah, and, you know, there's circumstantial evidence to refute that and a judge will tell a jury that's just as good as direct evidence but juries don't believe that and, you know, there is some direct evidence, but, you know, it's a tough case against donald trump and we'll see. >> elie, it's a question i asked last night, since the esteemed counsel for the defendant here has suggested intent is the biggest obstacle are there crimes that can be charged without having to prove intent? >> no, jon is correct, the best defense will be the prosecution hasn't proved intent. if i had to prove intent on the prosecutor's side, first of all, i would look to speaking of this week's news, look to evidence
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that donald trump ever acknowledged that he knew he lost. that's the best kind of evidence then i would look to evidence that he was told by credible sources he had lost. that's not as good because others told him won and finally argue there are some things even if he truly believed he won, you still can't cross certain lines. you still can't threaten people. you still can't ask a secretary of state on a state level to find you votes. that would be, i think, what prosecutors would say on the intent issue. >> jon, of the various reports of questions that have been asked, the various witnesses who have come forward that we now know to testify in this case, who would make the trump team the most nervous? if you were defending trump in this case, what testimony, what evidence would make you the most nervous? >> that's easy for me. the most significant witness in this grand jury has been in my view is mike pence. we don't know what he said to the grand jury.
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we know what he is saying politically. just think about it. if there is a case against the former president of the united states and if the principal witness is his vice president, i mean, that is just staggering. but he's not politically mike pence doesn't want to be the person who takes down donald trump but he had the conversations, he had a private conversation with president trump the day before january 6th, then about a week later he had a private conversation and i think but none of us know that whatever those conversations were, under oath in the grand jury mike pence told the truth but i don't know what he's saying in the political arena, that's a whole different ball game. that's not my expertise, but i think the former vice president, his running mate could be the most compelling witness, of course, mark meadows being a close second. >> very quickly, i have 20 seconds left, what could mike pence say about donald trump that would get him or put him in
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trouble? >> he could say that i know i lost the election. we got to do something to keep that s.o.b. or whatever he would refer to -- because he is a name caller -- president biden out and i don't care what it takes and you don't have the courage and that type of -- >> jon and elie, if i ever get in trouble, one i would hire quickly. thank you very much. so, there seems to be an obsession with man flesh among some republican candidates. is that because, a, it goes around traditional media, b, it plays to a keelment of the republican base, c, forgets that more than half of voters are actually women or, d, is super fr freaking hunkyky? stay with us. the ananswer ahead.
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so, on the campaign trail today what appears to be an obsession with man flesh. politico reports that donald trump has been trying to get on mike tyson's podcast. as they describe it, the trump campaign's interest in tyson's podcast is part of a broader strategic outreach to n nontraditional media outlets, specifically those affiliated with male audiences with an interest in contact and combat sports. contact and combat sports. touching and fighting. chris christie got into the action too with an assist from piers morgan. >> if you and trump got in the ring, he loves his ufc and stuff like that, if you got in the octagon, who would win? >> come on? the guy is 78 years old. i'd kick his ass. >> contact and combat sports, touching and fighting and then there is that
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homophobic/homoerotic video which included greased up pictures of bodybuilders and brad pitt as achilles who might have been a tender lover at the same time the soldier -- depends on your interprix tigs of "the iliad." part of the fixation on fighting and touching an attempt to attract male voters. i happen to know some men, some of my best friends are men and i'm told some men are into noncontact activities, right? and some women, by the way, love the mma stuff, so what is going on here? with us now is jennifer, a reporter at axios and coleman. thank you both for being with us. coleman, as you know we do this in multiple choice form, so broadly speaking, all this man centric contact sports stuff that we're seeing here, is it, a, because it goes around
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traditional media, b, plays to a key element of the republican base, c, forgets that more than half of voters are actually women or, d, is just superfreaking hunky. jennifer? >> i'm going with a, circumventing traditional media is a big motive for candidates like trump who really just want to set their own rules. i happen to think that by going with mike tyson he is setting himself up for a real "access hollywood" moment. remember that tyson went to jail for rape in '92 at a time when trump went on "the howard stern show" and said it was a trafty that he had to go jail time. i think that there's a lot of potential for people to get themselves in big trouble with all this locker room talk though i would like to seamus musk cage fight with mark zuckerberg. >> they're doing it too. it seems to be a thing.
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people are going there but it does come with some risk. >> absolutely. >> all right, coal messenger. >> yeah, well, joe rogan's podcast is the mecca of this and joe refused to have trump on his podcast. he had bernie on and andrew yang, he had rfk jr. recently and he has the biggest podcast in that space, so trump's attempt to go to someone like mike tyson, in a way that's a end around the elephant in the room. in defense of mike tyson and won't defend his alleged -- well, his crime that he actually served time for, but if you look at the way he speaks now, he doesn't speak the same way he spoke when he was a young buck. he talks about his feelings. he has a much more rounded and sort of holistic way of speaking so i'm curious to see that kind of conversation. >> would you have trump on your pod podcast? >> no. >> then again you're not an mma. >> but apparently everyone is doing it. do you want me to get in the
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ring with me. >> there's way too much touching. steve reports that the desantis team is trying to allay all these concerns that have been going on about his campaign. telling supporters, you know what, we're pacing ourselves. up until the first debate. rit? however, some republicans invested in his candidacy fear desantis is wasting lule time by waiting to the first debate to gain traction against the unprecedented campaign of a still popular former president. he's urging patience insisting it's early in the political calendar. if he's looking at the first debate as a coming out party, is that, a, smart, patience is a virtue, b, way too long to lay low, c, risky, there are other people who will be on that stage gunning for him, c, chris christie, and, d, maybe setting the bar too high. >> a, i think he wants to wait. i think our reporting shows the more he gets in front of voters the lower he goes in the polls.
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axios covered a focus group with minnesota swing voters who saw some of the stuff he put out on lgbtq people and decided that it was -- that he was a wanna be dictator is one of the words used. >> in the focus group. >> in the focus group and it was troubling, some of the rhetoric he was putting out. i think he risks in the debris coming across as a cerebral prig quoting the federalist papers and he will have to work on his image between now and then so he can get his message across to voters and, you know, when he starts talking about wokism and immigration and other things that cater to his base, he may be able to come through to break through, but for the moment he last a lot of work to do. >> coleman. >> i'll say "a" as well because i don't think they have much to worry about yet. i don't think it's an emergency moment because i went back and
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looked. at this time in the campaign in 2007 who had roughly -- who was polling 20% like desantis? barack obama. at this point in 2015 who was polling roughly 20, 5%, trump. it's still very early days right now and he's kind of where he needs to be in terms of the historical precedent if he makes that strike later. >> that's what the desantis campaign is arguing, we could be the trump, you know, the 2016 trump. the difference, though, is that trump led in the poll, you know, and desantis has never led and will obviously have to. thank you both so much for playing. it was great to see you. have a wonderful weekend. >> thanks for having me. a string of murders that terrorized long island for more than a decade. possibly solved today and you will never guess how they caught the suspect. plus, hollywood on strike. the s.a.g. president and star of "the nanny." fran drescher joinins us live.
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for $49.99a month for 12 monts plus ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card with qualifying internet. a major development tonight in a serial killing cold case that baffled authorities for more than a decade. a new york architect identified as max heuermann is under arrest and charged with murder in connection to the killings of three women whose bodies were discovered near gilgo beach near suffolk county and the story from miguel marquez. >> i'm standing here with my law enforcement partners in the gilgo task force to announce the indictment of rex heuermann. >> reporter: sex workers found tied up. their bodies dumped near gilgo
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beach on new york's long island. >> when i took office in january of '22, i made gilgo a priority. >> reporter: they traumatized and captivated long island east of new york city for more than a decade. now, the suspect as unthinkable as the murders themselves. >> this is a shock. like i said, 29 years here, i've seen some things, but this is it. >> reporter: rex heuermann charged with three murders today, the investigation continuing. he faces a possible fourth murder charge. investigators say they identified heuermann using dna from the bodies of the victims and from witness descriptions of him and the car he drove. investigators obtained hundreds of search warrants and subpoenas linking heuermann to temporary burner phones and fake email accounts. investigators allege he used them to communicate with his victims, taunt the family of one of them and search for information related to the
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investigation into the long unsolved murders. >> we recognize that these crimes may have happened years ago, but that pain continues. >> reporter: investigators' biggest break came when surveilling heuermann at his midtown manhattan office. he was eating pizza and discarded it in a public trash kang. dna from the crust, say investigators, linked heuermann to the murders. heuermann has been charged with the murders of melissa bar little economy and megan waterman a& only three and possibly a fourth now linked to one alleged killer so far. developers say they've made the arrest now because they feared heuermann could strike again. >> one of the reasons why we had to take this case down was we learned that the defendant was
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using these alternate identities and instruments to continue to patronize sex workers. >> reporter: max heuermann has led not guilty and insists through his lawyer that he's innocent. he is an unlikely suspect, a husband, father of two, an architect working in manhattan dealing with arcane building codes. in february 2022 he was even interviewed about his job for a youtube show. >> rex heuermann, i'm an architect. i'm an architectural consultant, born and raised on long island. >> reporter: as for the several other victims found near gilgo beach,age of their family members hope this will lead to answers about their loved ones. were they victims, as well? >> i'm hopeful for the future and that a connection is made. >> so i want to give you a sense of what's happening outside the heuermann home and has been all day long. just a huge number of investigators who have been in that home pulling out evidence throughout the day, several
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different jurisdictions represented here today. investigators also say that mr. heuermann became increasingly brazen during all of this using burner phones to search, for instance, about the investigation itself. that was concerning to them. they also say in taunting one of the victims they say he used a burner phone to call a relative of melissa barthelemy, one of his victims telling that person that he had sexually assaulted and killed their relative. the next court hearing for mr. heuermann is set for august 1st. john. >> wow, miguel mar kwedz, thank you so much. with me now is billy jensen, co-host of "unraveled: long island serial killer." thanks for being with us. i mean, honestly, what a bizarre story with this mountain of new facts. what do you think of the arrest? would you call this man an unlikely suspect? >> no, he's actually a very good suspect. the fact that he lived in
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massapequa is where the calls were coming from, the taunting that we knew about and worked in midtown manhattan which is also where some of the calls had come from, he had been called potentially a contractor, possibly. it all kind of lines up. there's nothing really surprising. what's surprising is why it took so long. >> why did it take so long? do you have any thoughts on that? >> the fact that they knew that, you know, when it comes from -- it seemed to me that it came from the amber costello investigation and what amber would do is amber would roll some of her johns, which means she would invite a john over, she was a sex worker and would invite a client over then a guy would jump in, one of her friends and say this is my girlfriend and empty the pockets of the john. the john would just give the money and go away. they had done this to a man a couple of days apparently before
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she had gone missing and they had described the man as being 6'4" to 6'6" and drove a chevy avalanche, and it was a dark color, not a typical car on long island and he was, you know, just a very big guy. the fact that they had that information and also knew that this killer was probably from the massapequa area, it seems like they could have narrowed him down but know the suffolk county police department had so much corruption and we know that they had kicked out the fbi a year into it, that that's onof the reasons why. he should have been caught way earlier. >> because all things point to this being pretty planned out. the burner phones and committed these crimes allegedly when his family was out of town and search history had hundreds of searches related to the gilgo beach murder investigation. does that make sense with everything we know about the case? >> once you zero in on him you
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can start getting the subpoenas. that's what they did. this was an interesting way to go about capturing this guy, because they were able to go through a grand jury, able to get apparently 300 subpoenas and were subpoenaing everything from his bernanker phones to his google searches and that's where we saw all of these searches and there's still a lot of question, you know, there are ten long island serial killer victims that were found on ocean parkway. he is only being chargedith three and is a suspect in four. we still have six bodi out there thatre unconfirmed. >> okay, talk about that because i think that's hard for people to process here. do you think it's possible he gets charged with more or is it possible the's a totally separate killer out there? >> i think it's very possible there's totally a separate killer out there. we have the two victim, valerie mac and jessica taylor whose bodies were found in gilgo beach as well in manorville, a few
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miles east of gilgo beach and peaches and the baby and fire island jane doe and biological asian male. there is so much difference between these victims as opposed to the four victims of the gilgo four who were all petite, who were all using craig'slist and internet in order to find their clients and were all found in similar fashion wrapped in the burlap and that sort of thing, so i think it's very possible that there is not only another killer out there but multiple killers. >> so, look, this scared so many people on long island for so long. do you plan on going back now, you know, piecing things together sort of from the beginning based on this? what do you expect to hear if you do? >> i think have to definitely go back and do a time line of this person's life, where they've been, where they vacationed, where they've gone to, because the fact, did he really only kill four people? and another fascinating thing
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about the case is that, as they were monitoring him and surveilling him, it seems that he was continuing to go to sex workers. he was continuing to -- so, how were they making sure that these sex workers were actually safe? there's going to be a lot of questions that need to be answered here, because it sometimes to me that they had rushed this -- rush sounds like a weird word because they seemed to have gotten his name over a year ago, but they felt that the public was not safe, so they went in and they made the arrest today. >> billy jensen, i think you'll have a lot to think about and talk about in the next few weeks and months. thanks for being with us. really appreciate it. so, quiet on the set. all the sets because there is a strike or, frankly, two in hollywood. s.a.g. president and "the nanny" star fran drescher is here with the union chief negotiator. stay with us.
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my mother had three rules, never make contact with a public toilet. [ laughter ] never, ever, ever cross a picket line. what was the third one? oh, yeah, never wear musk oil to the zoo. >> that is actress fran drescher refusing to cross the picket line in "the nanny" and now she is heading back to the picket lines again. s.a.g.-aftra has joined them on strike after failing to reach a deal, the first since 1960 both actors and writers have been on strike together. the union's demands include better pay, benefit, streaming
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residdials and protections on that means thed ligence use and sing, off camera work ing voice work and no audition, no rehearsals and no premieres, festivals and press junkets. hollywood basically shut down. with me now actress, fran drescher, along with s.a.g.-aftra's executive director and duncan crabtrecrab crabtree-ireland. the demands include better pay and benefits, protections on a.i. use. why do you think the studio refused your demands? >> i think that they thought that we would be a pushover to just do incremental changes on an essentially archaic contract that was forged decades ago and no longer reflects the new business model of streaming,
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which has very much saturated the business and taken over in a way that demands new structure for the contract be implemented. >> why weren't you pushovers? why did you have to take a stand, do you think? >> well, this is the contract that is going to redefine how this industry treats performers, and they've been building a new industry with an old contract, and now the contract expired, and it's time to catch up to the new technology that really has disemboweled the old business model. so, we knew that it had to be a sem sem seminal negotiation or we would be left behind in a contract
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that didn't afford us the economic growth that we need, you know, that matches up with inflation, that gives us the level of revenue sharing we're used to upon which the old contract was predicated no longer exists. >> hey, duncan, the executives say, duncan, that they offered you what they called a groundbreaking deal on artificial intelligence. what was that? >> yeah, you know, it's interesting that they would call it groundbreaking, that they would call it unprecedented. that's only because there's nothing there to start from and no provisions there. the fact of the matter is that our members need something basic which is the ability to control the use of their face, their voices, their personas when they're turned into digital replicas or when used in artificial intelligence systems and the companies haven't been willing to do enough to make sure they feel comfortable, that
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they're not going to have those things used without their consent and without compare compensation and made proposals that facilitate the opposite, getting up front consent years before projects are ever made, getting concept from someone who's maybe going to get their first chance to act in one of these universes and then going to have their digital replica used for the entire, you know, future of that universe without any kind of consent or additional compensation. it's not right. it's not fair. that's why we can't make a deal with them on the terms they presented. it's simple for them to step forward and work out a deal with us on those terms. >> i'm seeing the average yearly salary for working actors is $65,000. fran, how long do you think people, your member, can hold out? >> well, you know, they're really very enthusiastic. i mean, we had an unprecedented
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turnout in favor of the strike authorization vote, 97.91%, so even when duncan and i in good faith tried to convince them that we felt that it was our responsibility to use an extension to try and overt a strike and we did an unprecedented 12-day extension, which wasn't worth doing because they barely came out of their room. they constantly canceled our negotiating appointments. i thought maybe they were really duking it out to try to come up with some deep inroads for the negotiation, and it didn't work out that way. they -- i think they duped us to have more time to promote their summer movies but nothing significant came out of it. it was a gross disappointment,
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and as the clock ticked away, it was time to move into phase two of this negotiation, which doesn't mean that we stop negotiating but we stopped extending the contract, so right now we're on strike, and there is no contract anymore. it's eired. >> i want to put up on the screen for people to see it the statemt from the alliae, motion picture alliance and say the union has regretly chosen a path that will lead to financial hardship. duncan, i want to give you the last word on that. what do you say to that? >> you know, it is really outrageous that they would say that because the union spent 35 days trying to make progress on issues of critical importance to our members. the union spent that time trying to make sure our members' minimum salaries even keep up with inflation and that our members working in 2023 don't make less than they made in 2020
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or even under the proposals from the companies in 2026 working for less than they made in 2020, that, you know, these are all proposals we came forward with in good tatum and to have these corporate, you know, megacorporations tell us that these proposals are unrealistic like bob iger did in an interview the other day while they are paying corporate salary -- executive salaries that are far more than many of these proposals would ever cost, it's really out of step with where the american public is. it's certainly out of step with where our membership is and i have every plaintiff our members are ready, willing and able to do what it takes to make sure we win the strike but we also are ready, willing and able to come back to the table and negotiate at any time and that's something the company has been unwilling to do. >> thank you so much for being with us tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.
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feet, heatstroke, hose burnz. more on that in just a moment. in phoenix they have had 15 straight days above 110 degrees. henrietta was telling you they hit record temperatures not dropping below the 90s at night. the lows haven't dropped below the 90s, which is really dangerous. the washington post has amazing story chronicling some of the dangers when the pavement temperatures can reach 160 degrees and anything metal or shiny is just treacherous. people have been burned by their seatbelt or mailboxes. swimmers walking across not so cool decks. truckers who drive barefoot step on the parking lot surfaces and end up badly blistered. the hottest days, patients have been scolded by the water coming out of their garden hoses. be safe there because not a lot of relief in sight. fitness is essential for healthy living, but for adults with intellectual and develop mental disabilities who face a greater risk of obesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes, it is vital. this hero was a father whose
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belonging, and love. go to cnn heroes.com right now. finally i asked you to send me threads with suggestions for how to sign off. this comes from pistol pete 911 who writes, deuces, yo. let me try that. i am john berman, deuces, yellow. did i do that, right? thanks for watching. our coverage continues. , they need . subaru and our retetailers are there to help... by providing blankets for comfort and warmth and encouraging messages of hope to help support near three hured thousand patients facing cancer nationwide. we call it “the subaru love promise.” and we're proud to be the largest automotive donor to the leukemia and lymphoma society.
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tonight on 316, nearly 13 years after first four bodies were found, police charge a

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