this is cnn breaking news. >> i'm anderson cooper with wolf blitzer. jake tapper on the campaign trail. welcome back to our breaking news. trump says he is a target in the special counsel's investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. thes the second time jack smith sent a so-called target letter to the former president. trump's attorneys received the letter. their client could soon face charges. >> on truth social, trump says he was told, quote, to report to the grand jury within four days of receiving the letter sunday. while trump did not say specifically why he was told to report, target letters do typically allow individuals the chance to defend themsves before the grand jury before any charges are brought. sources are telling cnn that a

close adviser to donald trump, will russell, will appear before the grand jury this thursday. >> all these very dramatic, historic developments are happening on the same day of the key hearing for the special counsel's other probe into trump's alleged mishandling of highly classified documents. right now, trump's defense lawyers and special counsel prosecutors are in federal court in florida. they're arguing before the presiding judge in that case for the first time, judge ilene cac -- aileen cannon. >> a major signal this probe could be entering the final stage. >> yeah, anderson. we have been watching for weeks lately to see just the list of people who have been confirmed either to have been interviewed by the special counsel's office or have spoken to the grand jury, being compelled to speak about their interactions with the former president related to the end of his time in the white

house. it is all coming together. it all comes together for the justice department when they decide to send a target letter. that is one of the signals that the charging decision is imminent. it is the sort of thing that invites donald trump as the target of the investigation to testify, to provide his side of the story if he wants to, to the grand jury. we don't expect him to be doing that in the grand jury, but it does really set the clock ticking here for trump as we are approaching an indictment. just, anderson, in the past couple hours here at cnn, we've heard of even more people who are going into this grand jury. as you mentioned at the top here, will russell, one of his personal aides in the white house, as well as someone who was working with him after the presidency. that man has been called to the grand jury for thursday. they are going to be working still there at least to hear a little bit from will russell. on top of that, there are state

ofs fr battleground states that we're confirming people who had insight into the election and the administration of elections, into the threats of violence happening in battleground states, into the fake electors from georgia, pennsylvania, new mexico, michigan, arizona, and now even wisconsin. the election commissioners there are also speaking to special counsel jack smith. bringing that all together creates a situation where the special counsel could have quite a significant and, of course, historic case against the former president. >> have we heard from trump's legal team? i know we haven't heard from the special counsel yet. >> we have been getting some hints of what is happening with trump's legal team. you're right, we have heard nothing from the special counsel investigation. they've opinion been declining to comment. our understanding is there has been a scramble on trump's side of things since trump's indictment in florida on the

documents case, a separate criminal case also brought by the special counsel's office. that legal team has been in a bit of disarray. there hadn't been a clear head to fend off whatever needed to be dealt with as a defense team for donald trump on january 6th. all of those lawyers that have been working on it had departed, and they apparently were caught of offguard on sunday when the target letter came to donald trump, saying, "you have until thursday to come speak to us if you so choose." now, there is a scramble among the people to see who had a target letter. rudy giuliani and john eastman, two people close to trump after the 2020 election, they have not received target letters. if others were to be charged alongside donald trump, it is still an open question. >> kaitlin polantz, thanks. jake? >> donald trump's other criminal case, the hearing got under way in florida. this is about the alleged

mishandling of classified documents at mar-a-lago. the former er president is not expected to attend. his attorneys are there. his co-defendant, walt nauta, was seen entering the courtroom. let's discuss this with evan pe pettis. what are attorneys specifically discussing in this hearing today? >> jake, the purpose of the hearing was to discuss the classified documents that are at the center of the case, but the judge indicated in the last 24 hours that she wanted the two sides to come prepared to talk about a potential trial date. this is something that the special counsel has been trying to push along. they have been trying to say that they're ready for trial as soon as december. the trump team has indicated that they don't wanthe judge to even set a trial date. they say there's a lot of litigation they believe they have to do between and even getting to a trial. the obvious push there appears to be that the former president wants this to go well past the 2024 election. but, you know, they've raised the possibility that they want

to challenge the special counsel, whether the special counsel even has the authority to bring this case, whether these documents are even classified. again, all of these things, they say, need to be worked out. the judge is also being asked today to provide some kind of protective order, jake, to govern how the classified documents and all the documents, everything that is being entered as evidence, how that is handled on this side of the trump team and walt nauta's legal katelyn a flux as to whether the trump team is going to add additional lawyers before that trial date. but we may well see a trial date from judge aileen cannon by the end of today, jake. >> all right. evan perez, thanks so much. wolf? >> thanks, jake. our expert panel is back with us here in washington. laura coates, when trump and his legal team get a formal letter from the justice department and

the special counsel, a targeted letter as it is called, how does this legal team need to move forward in this regard? >> they've given him an opportunity in this correspondence, the official correspondence from the doj, that says you are the target of a grand jury investigation. it is not the same thing as an indictment. it is certainly not something that has been filed now officially in terms of a criminal court proceeding. but it does give the opportunity to now go before the grand jury and testify. remember, as a grand jury witness, there is no counsel allowed to be present in the room with you if you so choose to testify. one reason why you would not want to testify if you are the target is because by the time it gets to the target being asked to be questioned in the grand jury, there have been many other witnesses who have already given testimony, who are likely created the factual narrative for the grand jurors to look at. now, your testimony is weighed against what they have heard, and you are not privy to. there is a bit of a minefield to navigate, even if you are truthful. of course, if you are alleged to

be somebody that's a target, you are presumed to be, by the prosecutors, to have done something criminal. so now the lawyers have until thursday to decide whether they want to actually take advantage of the opportunity. if they choose not to, the doj prosecutors are likely already ready with an indictment to be filed, and giving this last moment to say, you have a chance. >> good point. andrew mccabe, when you get a target letter, that means the federal prosecutors are suggesting you are the target of this criminal investigation. how soon, potentially, could we see another indictment against trump? >> very quickly. very quickly. these are typically only sent out -- and, to be clear, they don't have to be sent out. they're under no obligation to send a target letter to the subject of an investigation. but when they are used, it is only at the very, very end of the grand jury's investigation. the grand jury -- prosecutors are essentially ready to have the grand jury vote on the indictment at this point, pending only the testimony that

laura just mentioned, whether or not, in this case, mr. trump would come in. so if he chooses not to come in, that does not take place by this thursday, the case could be indicted by the end of the week, which means we could then see the next step, which would be an arraignment or presentation as early as mid to end of next week. >> i wonder if the prosecutors, knowing trump's behavior patterns, that he'd publicize any information to him, knew this would happen and, in fact, were fine with it, wanted this information to be out there, perhaps to prepare the ground to law enforcement, to give them a heads-up, to know something is coming down the pike. they know at this point that trump is going to say on his truth social whatever they say to him. that has to be part of the calculation that they made by sending that target letter when they probably didn't have to. >> no doubt they knew how he would react. i think there's also a small possibility, not a zero but a small possibility that they could react with a request for a

meeting, as you saw in the first of the mar-a-lago documents case. they received a similar notice. they asked to come in and meet with the attorney general. they didn't actually get the attorney general, but they got the special counsel and other high-ranking folks at doj. that could happen over the course of the next few days, which would delay things further. earliest, i think, this indictment could come down would be the end of the week, but this could drag out a few weeks. >> as we know, elliott williams, the january 6th probe has been sprawling, and it's been going on for months and months and months. does that make it harder for the prosecution right now? >> it absolutely does, wolf. when you say sprawling, you're talking about investigations that were in michigan, georgia, nevada, and a bunch of other states around the country. prosecutors have to establish everything in the context of a criminal prosecution. that's not just the facts, but that is also the fact that they have what's called venue in any jurisdiction. you have to establish that a crime that you can prove actually was committed in the place you're talking about.

every witness you add, every venue you add, and every potential additional charge or crime adds another burden onto the prosecution. in many respects, less is kind of more as a prosecutor. it would perhaps be in the justice department's interest to pick one jurisdiction, washington, d.c., or wherever else, bring other evidence in and charge there. once you start going around the country, number one, you're adding potential time to your trial and your investigation, but also places where your case could be picked apart or attacked by defendants. they probably have to be careful here. >> there's some folks, political experts who believe, abby, a potential third indictment against trump, at least with his base in the short term, could help him a bit in his effort to get himself elected president once again. at least among republicans. would it be a very serious negative, as far as longer term goals in a general election. >> yeah, i very much thing it would. a lot of the polling suggests just that. even the republicans who believe

that trump may have done something wrong, they also believe that he shouldn't necessarily be charged. that's among republicans. when you look at the broader public, there's much more openness to the idea that trump did do something wrong and he should be charged and he should face consequences for it. for the broader electorate of the american people, especially for independent voters s problematic for trump. it is only short-term thinking to think this is somehow a huge political positive in the long run. it could pose real serious problems, especially this case, which goes to the heart of trump's fitness for office. the accusations here are potentially that trump did things to undermine the bedrock of american democracy. that is going to weigh on him in this political cycle one way or another. >> you're absolutely right. michael fanone, as you well know, one hour from now, the next hour here on cnn, ron desantis, the republican presidential contender, is going

to be speaking to our own jake tapper. trump's rivals right now for the republican nomination, they've avoided, for the most part, not all of them, but most of them have avoided overly criticizing trump on this issue. what do you want to hear from desantis? >> well, i'm not a political commentator, but it seems to me as though all the candidates right now, with the exception of chris christie, are running for vice president under donald trump. i want to hear ron desantis call out donald trump for his actions on january 6th. i want to hear ron desantis say that donald trump is not a viable candidate, that he is not a -- the appropriate leader for the republican party. hell, i don't even think he deserves to be free right now. but i don't expect to hear any of that language from republicans anywhere.

>> all right. everybody stand by. we're following all the breaking news for us. there's a lot going on. right now, the former president's legal team scrambling right now. they're calling other lawyers and top allies, trying to find out if anyone else got a specific, official target letter from the special counsel. more cnn reporting coming up next. (mom) ththe moment i loved our subaru outback most... was the moment they walked away from it. (daughter) mom! (mom) oh, thank goodness. and that's why our family will only drive a subaru. (vo) subaru. more iihs top safety pick plus awards than any other brand. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of theile! oh only pay for what you need.

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and gold has even kept its value through inflation! bro, i've been there, but gold saved my portfolio. a tip for you... visit invest.gold visit invest.gold to see why gold is everyone's asset. welcome back to cnn's special coverage. we're continuing to follow breaking news. donald trump now an official target in the criminal investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election here in the united states. the former president revealing today on social media that he received a target letter from the special counsel, jack smith, a sign he may soon face charges. the letter, we're learning, caught trump's team, legal team, offguard. let's get some more with cnn's kristen holmes, who is joining us right now.

kristen, how are trump and his legal team actually reacting to this breaking news? >> reporter: well, the first thing they started doing was trying to figure out who else might have gotten a target letter. the reason being, that as you said, they were surprised by the timing of this letter. they have long believed that trump would be indicted, at least one more time, potentially two more times, but that the january 6th investigation at this time had cooled off a little bit. this possible indictment, this target letter, wouldn't come until the fall. because of that, they were making a series of calls, trying to figure out if anyone else was given a target letter, to give them a better idea of what exactly those charges against donald trump mean, what exactly a potential case against donald trump could mean. i do want to note, wolf, remember, he is in the middle of his third presidential bid. he is with his campaign team. now, they are about to land in iowa. he is going to be doing a town hall tonight. we expect that he'll be asked about this. we know he also spent the day, that in addition to having his

aides and advisers reaching out the figure out the legal aspect, calling members on the hill, his allies, trying to figure out how they were best going to go against the special counsel, to defend him politically. as we know, these things are intertwined. he is running a presidential campaign while under an enormous amount of legal scrutiny. now, of course, the reporting he got this target letter on sunday. >> good point. kristen holmes, thank you very much. anderson? >> thank you, wolf. i have a panel of experts and legal minds to break down all of this. now, we know a trump aide is going to be interviewed on thursday. that doesn't mean that there still couldn't be an indictment announced this week. >> this is up to prosecutors, at what point in time do they want to ask the grand jury to indict? if they've given donald trump until the end of the day on thursday, they will not ask for an indictment before then. once you pass that point, anything goes. it could be, also, as a prosecutor, you can get an

indictment and then continue putting other witnesses in the grand jury. one does not necessarily fore close the other. >> it could come friday? >> i think from friday on, we're all going to have to be on alert. >> what are you hearing? >> i think it could be thursday. no, here's the thing, if my justice department sources say that if donald trump's lawyers tell jack smith that he's not coming into the grand jury, then all bets are off. thursday is the day the grand jury traditionally meets, so if wednesday night, jack smith knows he's not coming, then he can go in on thursday, present the case, take a vote. we could, i think, have something thursday night. but it could go on beyond that. >> i asked someone about that. they don't think that the trump team will formally tell jack smith, "hey, we're not going to testify." these things are fluid, but they think they'll just let the clock run out on this, and they believe jack smith's team will

honor those four days that they gave him, which trump himself was the one to reveal that earlier. and so essentially, that would put it to potentially friday or early next week. they don't know anything more than we dochlt they don't know when an indictment could come. they do know what charges potentially jack smith is considering, because it is included in the letter that todd blanch and trump's other attorneys got sunday night. so they do have a general idea of where this could be going. when kristen was talking about their team being surprised, they thought maybe indictments or charges could happen in september. they thought they had some more time. i think they're a little surprised that other people have not also gotten target letters that they yet know of. because their belief the whole time was this was going to center around a conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. obviously, you can't conspire alone, so they figured other people who were with trump at that time would be part of this. they were hoping trump would be an unindicted co-conspirator. that doesn't seem to be where this is headed. >> what do you think the impact

goes on the campaign trail? >> listen, at this point, if you contribute to donald trump, about 10% of that goes to his legal defense fund, which is something supporters should know. at this point, he is outpaced b. i would imagine republicans would wake up to the fact he now has so many legal liabilities. the campaign is going to be paying for those while he is simultaneously trying to run for president. i would think this would be the third potential indictment, the wake-up moment for republicans, but initial reactions from capitol hill indicate otherwise. a lot of folks jumping to defend him before seeing a potential indictment. i'm not sure this changes things dramatically. my one bit of free advice would be if you're a ron desantis or tim scott, this is your time to break from him. you don't get a better political gift than your opponent being indicted. >> it's being reported the former president has reached out to elise stefanik, to mccarthy, to plan out what their response is going to be, what the defense

from his allies on capitol hill is going to be. >> this comes, by the way, as the oversight committee has this weaponization of the justice department committee that they've stood up, that is genuinely meant to undermine trust in the department of justice at a time when the president is being investigated. so i expect the usual allies are going to line up behind him. se f stefanik already put out a statement on social media, i believe. >> mccarthy called this a prime part of the weaponization. >> without seeing any indictment. >> that's right. >> it is cringe worthy to listen to these folks not just embrace reality, that donald trump mim misstepped and tried to sabotage democracy. we have to fast forward. by the way, we'll be back doing this again in a few weeks when fulton county publicly comes back with a series of indictments, right? now, there is another complex layer on there. let's fast forward further. let's say donald trump happens to win a primary, which statistically in the polls look like that. what does a general election look like? the middle has been done with him for a while.

the middle will absolutely be done when the ads come back for it. he is damaged goods. this is a golden opportunity for a candidate to grab reality around the throat and say, we're moving the party in a different direction. >> i'm reminded of sebastian shaw, enemy of the "x-men." the harder you hit him, the stronger he gets. what you're saying, i hope it was true. i wish it was true. it seems the more you hit this guy, the bigger and bigger his polling advantage gets. it could pop like a balloon, but doesn't look like it right now. >> i think his support is a mile wide and an inch deep, and there's millions of republicans wanting an excuse to vote for somebody else. they just need to see the change in trajectory. >> i think the lack of political leadership from other elected republicans, to come out and speak to reality, the reality of what happened on january 6th, the crimes he's allegedly committed, i think that does boost him and is a reason you've seen his numbers continue to be high. >> do you think if other republican candidates were tough

enough to go head-to-head with the former er president, they' gain respect among the voters you claim are looking for another alternative? >> i worry it is late for somebody to change course. i think had folks done that after january 6th -- that's why i think that's the momentum you see behind a chris christie, will hurd, and asa. i realize that's a smaller bucket, but they want a bit of consistency. it would be a bit hard now for somebody to completely flip. >> i think it is a prisoner's dilemma. the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. who is going to be the first mouse who really goes out there and gets smacked, then somebody else might be able to take advantage? chris christie seems to be willing to be the person to continue to be a straightforward -- >> which is better, the worm or the cheese? >> you can get democracy. i mean the second mouth gets the cheese. you know what i'm saying, anderson. >> could i just go back to the politics of this? we're going to hear republicans

like kevin mccarthy, elise stefanik, other allies of the president, say this is unprecedented and talk about weaponization. let's just remember at the end of the day, it is unprecedented because no other president in history has tried to overturn an election, disrupt the transfer of power, and send his supporters up to capitol hill. >> also, look at what they said right after january 6th. look what kevin mccarthy said about trump. people who now say, oh, january 6th wasn't that big of a deal, it doesn't this, they were genuinely freaked out on that day as trump was doing nothing and couldn't be persuaded by calls from his daughter, ivanka trump, from others to come out and say something. the way they talk about it now, including trump himself, of course, is so different than the way they react today. >> it is interesting, the

unknowns and it may be more clear the end of the week, but mark meadows, what is his role going to be in this? has he flipped? has he made some -- >> yes. >> -- sort of a -- you believe he has? >> yes. he's flipped because, first of all, he's become the invisible man. you know, obviously, he has his own troubles, his own struggles, but i think he's the one that they should be the most worried about. what is trump's state of mind? when you talk of those things, it'll go in front of a jury, this guy had bad intent. he knew he had lost and continued to do this. i think it'll be one of the worst things for him. >> echoing van, i think mark meadows was a more important witness than the vice president himself. he was there for the internal machinations around, how are we going to challenge this? what are the lines we could pull? he was core. >> the testimony of cassidy hutchinson on that day about mark meadows, sort of sitting in

his office, doom scrolling the text messages, he seemed shellshocked from her testimony. >> he certainly was. i shared this before and with the january 6th committee. days after the election, mark meadows said, what if i told you there wasn't going to be a transition of power? similar to trump, there was this acknowledge he lost, but also might try to do something to stop it. it's those weeks that were a horrifying period that doj has tremendous insight into now. there is a strong case. >> thanks to everybody. a lot more continuing coverage goes on. the republican leaders in the house are accusing the justice department of having a two-tiered system, one more president biden, one for the former president. we're live on capitol hill with more on that next. quality eye exam starting at just $79.95. i can see from your expressisin that you find that shocking. ...aaaaaaaand, you don't have ears. book an exam today at americasbest.com.

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welcome back to our special breaking news coverage. still, no comment from the special counsel, jack smith. no comment when a cnn crew spotted him in d.c. today and asked about the target letter he sent to donald trump. cnn asking whether the special counsel's office is preparing to indict the former president over efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election here in the united states. several congressional republicans are vowing to support trump despite his growing legal troubles. here's texas congressman troy

ne nehls. listen. >> donald trump is going to beat joe biden in 2024 for a second time. why are they doing everything they can to prevent him from being on the ballot in 2024? i'll tell you why. donald trump will win in 2024. the left, they're scared [ bleep ]. >> let's bring in our chief congressional kocorrespondent mu raju. colorful language from the congressman. what more are you hearing from republican lawmakers? >> reporter: yeah, republicans are trying to plot exactly how to respond to the news that donald trump could potentially base his third criminal indictment. you've seen actions taken already in the other indictments, including going after the prosecutor in new york, over the first trump indictment, then trying to ask for his testimony, as well as seeking records from jack smith himself as part of the classified records probe. now, there's calls from some on the hard right to de-fund the special counsel's investigations all together. that includes coming from

congressman matt gaetz, who said he was going to go after the special counsel. another indicated it may be time to go after the justice department's funding when it comes time to fund the government. >> this is outrageous and jack smith is out of control. what we are looking at, while we're dealing with appropriations, is some of the dollars that are going to be relevant agencies. the department of justice is going to have a two-tier system about how they choose to investigate and prosecute, maybe they don't need that much money. >> reporter: now, all of this is seen by democrats as a blatant way to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation, trying to go after this wroeb without even knowing any of the allegations or evidence, as outlined by this potential indictment. all we know is what donald trump said, that he is the target of this investigation. even as his most prominent allies are rushing to his defense, many republicans on

capitol hill still staying silent, including the senate republican leader, mcconnell, who would not answer questions about this as he walk onto the senate floor. also, the speaker of the house, it's much different than the speaker of the house, who came out and aggressively defended the former president in the immediate aftermath of the news, showing the divisions that continue to persist on capitol hill and within the republican party over how to deal with the former president and the charges that could be coming any day. >> we're bracing for that. we'll see what happens. manu raju on capitol hill, thank you. we're following the breaking news right now. a potential second indictment of former president donald trump by the special counsel, jack smith. we'll talk about those cases and his other legal issues right after a quick break. what do we always say, son?

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welcome back to our special coverage. the special counsel's letter targeting donald trump in the probe. elle, it is easy to lose start. start with the manhattan case. >> four cases swirling around donald trump now. the one that is most concrete is the d.a.'s indictment in manhattan. this is a state indictment under new york law. donald trump is accused of falsifying records over mush money payments to porn stars before the 2016 election.

that case has been set for trial starting late march into april of 2024. now, trial dates with move, but if we're trying to figure out the calendar here, that's the one trial that, as of this moment, has a date. >> so that's a manhattan one. the documents case is in florida. >> this is a federal case, brought by doj, the special counsel jack smith, that is charged in the federal district court in the southern district of florida. the big question on that case is, when will that trial happen? we'll learn the answer moment fai momentarily. >> that hearing is happening right now. >> we could get word back from the courthouse that the judge has set a trial date or has not, saying we'll put it on hold, dealing with motions and classified documents and come back. they're trying to maneuver for a trial date that is workable. >> it is also, we saw, obviously, the former president is not in the court today in florida, but walt nauta is in court. >> walt nauta is the co-defendant, the other person charged with donald trump, with documents crimes and obstruction of justice, making false

statements. nauta is itnot charged with the documents crime. jack smith has a separate investigation, and that is today's news. >> the third one. >> this is the third one overall, right. jack smith, we learned, has sentd a target letter to donald trump relating to the january 6th investigation. a target letter means doj sees the person as a likely, not definite, likely target of an indictment, meaning that person is likely to be charged criminally. we're on watch for whehat indictment comes and, if so, what it looks like. keep in mi, jack smith talked insiders, people who are very, very close to donald trump, from mike pence to mark meadows, jared kushner, his son-in-law, hope hicks, rudy giuliani. it seems that jack smith has covered all the ground hiere, ad he is giving every indication he is ready to move to his end game there. >> the fourth investigation, potential case, is in georgia. >> yeah, let's not forget. we're now back again to a state

level. this is the fulton county, this is where atlanta is, the fulton county district attorney in georgia who has been investigating donald trump for over two and a half years now. she has sent a series of letters to judges and sheriffs in the area, essentially saying, clear your calendars for the first couple weeks in august. she's investigating trump for the effort to interfere in the election in georgia. key evidence, which could be part of smith's evidence, is the infamous phone call that donald trump made to the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, where trump asked raffensperger to just find 11,780 votes. so that is the fourth one. we have two indictments already on the books, another one could be coming soon, on january 6th from jack smith, and fani willis could not far from that. >> elle, appreciate it. when we come back, the latest out of the florida cour courtroom, a hearing in president trump's classified documents case is under way. our special coverage continues after a short break.

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the first key hearing in the classifies documents case against donald trump has just concluded. let's get right to the courthouse down in florida. ef and perez is in washington and paula reid is outside of the courthouse there. so what did you learn first of all, paula? >> reporter: well, in the last hour or so, we've gotten a sense of just how former president trump's legal strategy of trying to delay any prosecution and any criminal prosecution until after the election just how that is is going to play out down here in florida. this is a significant hearing because this is the first time that special council prosecutors

and deefense attorneys appeared before judge ilene cannon and we're watching to see how re sentive she would be to trump's efforts to try to delay this and over the last 90 minutes she very open to delaying this. one of the central tensions is the fact that special counsel jack smith wants a speedy trial and they said they would be ready to take this to trial in december. but today if the hearing the judge called that a compressed timeline. she said cases like this take more time. and she really pushed back on the idea that this case is not what you would describe as a complex case. there is something that should take more time. now, defense attorneys were up and they called this once again unusual, they said it would only be fair to delay any prosecution until after the election. but the judge did insist on some sort of timeline. she said, all right, i know you're not ready to put a trial date on the calendar but when

could you finish going through the evident and the discovery process and they might be able it finish that in november. and there was a lot of back and forth between prosecutors and defense attorneys about trump's status as a candidate. the special counsel was clear, it doesn't matter if he's a former president. he's no longer the president and even if he's a candidate for the presidency once again, that he should be treated like any other busy american. now trump's attorneys took issue with that. they insisted that he is not like any other american. this is unusual. they kept emphasizing that his likely opponents and administration is one prosecuting him. obviously losing the nuance of a special counsel. but judge just wasn't interested in this argument. she said, look, let's focus on getting a schedule down here. she's focused on the process and discovery and the mechanics at this point she does not appear to interested in the constitutional issues but we left this over hour and a half

long hearing without a trial date or inclination on when she will make a decision on what happens next. >> very interesting indeed. stand by. evan perez, what do you make of this? >> reporter: well i think one of the interesting things of what paula is talking about here is the fact that the justice department is adding complications itself to this very, very complicated picture. the idea that the former -- that the special counsel has notified the former president on -- >> let me interrupt you. you see walt nauta leaving the courthouse right there as well. go ahead. >> reporter: well, the fact is that the former president is being notified on sunday, wolf, that he could be the target of -- that he is target of the january 6 investigation, that he could be indicted in the coming days. really does throw another complication into the picture because it means that that the former president is not only facing this trial that paula was just talking about in this hearing that was about, but it

means that the special council could be adding another set of charges to the former president and something that he'll have to be facing while he is running for office. so, it is something that i think adds complications. i know that the special counsel is looking at this as a straightforward matter, that they can try to, you know, walk and chew gum at the same time. but it is the fact that the former president is running for office again. there is the process that you'll have to go out campaigning and i think the judge will show deference to that issue. he does have to go out there and campaign and partly sit is part process. an this new information that we have, that he could be indicted in the coming days, really does add another issue for the special counsel and for the proceedings that are going on in florida. wolf. >> very interesting indeed. paula, the fact that the presiding federal judge was appointed by trump, has that

been an issue at all? >> reporter: well it certainly wasn't an issue in the court today. it seems like all of her questions were incredibly reasonable. she pushed back on both sides. though it was clear she really wasn't on board with what she described as a compressed timeline being suggested by the special counsel. it is unprecedented to have a criminal prosecution of a former president in front of a judge that he has appointed. up until now the special counsel has not made an issue of this but there was no indication of any political bias in the courtroom. she asked questions it seems very much based off the briefings and what she already has in front of her and i want to note while most of the focus was on former president trump, he was not here today. though his attorneys were. but his co-defendant walt nauta was in the court with his lawyer and his lawyer got up and made arguments on behalf of him. he's not a candidate.

so a lot doesn't apply to walt nauta, but his lawyer said it will take us a while. their still waiting for evidence from prosecutors relating to walt nauta's phone. they said until we see the discovery, we can't tell you when we're ready for trial. one important thing that walt nauta's lawyer pointed out, the biggest decision that his client needs to make it whether he wants to settle this, whether he wants to plea, whether that would involve cooperating is unclear and his lawyer said he cannot make that decision until he has all of the discovery and the evidence from prosecutors. >> very important developments. thank you vep. and to our viewers. stay with cnn, our special live coverage continues on "the lead" with jake tapper right after a short break. i'll be back with all of you in "the situation room" at 6:00 p.m. eastern. see you then. thanks very much for watching. i profferr freshly sliced turkey. it's my favorite moututh guard flavor.

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