a "bloomberg" database showed she had only taken four criminal cases to trial. >> she's never tried a white-collar criminal case with all the complications that go with intent and with evidentiary rulings, let alone classified documents. >> reporter: we reached out to judge cannon's chambers and asked for response to the criticism that she's been biased toward former president trump. we didn't hear back. during her confirmation hearings, she was asked if she'd had any discussions about loyalty to trump. she decisively responded, no. wolf? >> brian todd reporting, brian, thank you very much. and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." "erin burnett outfront" starts "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com "outfront" next, is trump about to be indicted for the third time? trump and his lawyers say they're caught off guard. federal prosecutors telling trump he is a target in the january 6th probe.

this as a trump-appointed judge in another doj probe signals she may be siding with him. plus, 16 republicans just charged with trying to help trump overturn the election results, the so-called fake electors in michigan, the first in the country to face charges. how this now also points to trump himself. and new satellite images of wagner soldiers on the move for the first time since prigozhin's failed rebellion, a big development, let's go "outfront." good evening to all. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, closing in. trump facing a barrage of developments in multiple federal criminal investigations tonight. and a judge may rule this evening tonight on when the mar-a-lago documents case can go to trial. so far, the trump-appointed judge, aileen cannon, signaling she's siding with trump. but we don't know and we may find this one out any moment. so of course we're watching for that as we are covering all this news for you. because also tonight 16 fake trump electors have been charged in the state of michigan.

also significant, and we're going to have more on these moving developments in a moment. but first, trump announcing today that he is now officially a target in the investigation into the 2020 election. and sources tell cnn that this target letter caught trump's team off guard. they actually got a formal letter, it's called a target letter from the doj. they say they had not been anticipating charges against trump at all, never mind expecting a target letter now. this target letter comes in the face of an enormous amount of recent news in that case. we've learned the grand jury has heard from a long list of trump confidants and inner circle members including the former vice president, mike pence, the chief of staff mark meadows, his son of law jared kushner and many others who were behind closed doors with the president privy to what he said privately and not publicly. and we have learned prosecutors have interviewed election officials in the seven battleground states where trump's team falsely claimed fraud and put forward fake

electors. and as i mentioned in the state of michigan for the first time today, 16 of those fake electors were charged with felonies. so this is significant. you've got all those other states out there, and 16 people now charged with federal crimes. we are awaiting news, of course, from another one of those states, georgia, which could pertain to the president himself where secretary of state brad raffenspergewho also appeared before the special counsel's grand jury was on the receiving end of this infamous phone call from trump. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> a lot is happening tonight as all these legal threats to trump appear to be reaching a boiling point where things may start to happen very quickly. evan perez is "outfront" in washington to begin our coverage on this important evening. let's start with that target letter, the target letter

obviously almost always a precursor to a formal indictment in the mar-a-lago documents case, which is the one the most recent precedent here three weeks of a target letter to indictment. but this one could be much faster. what are your sources telling you? >> that's right. we think it could be a lot faster simply because in the previous case, the mar-a-lago case, the former president slowed things down. if you remember, he sent a letter claiming that there was misconduct on the part of the special counsel, work towards getting a meeting with senior career officials at the justice department, again, trying to forestall what became inevitable, which was the indictment there. we also know that the special counsel had to start moving the case down to the southern district of florida where they had to read in that grand jury to all of the testimony that had been taken by the grand jury here in washington. none of that, of course, is expected to happen in this case. the trump team has not indicated whether they want to avail

himself, whether the former president wants to avail himself of the opportunity to go to the grand jury on thursday. we know that at least one trump ally, will russell, an aide to the former president, is expected to go before that grand jury on thursday. but simply put, at the end of that, they could simply vote to indict the former president. the indication from this letter is that they are ready to go. so, as soon as thursday evening, the former president could be getting that phone call. and then, of course, he'll go on truth social and tell us all about it. >> right. and obviously a reminder of how we found out last time around was via such a post. i also want to ask you about the mar-a-lago case specifically. because i mentioned that judge cannon could rule as soon as tonight. so this could happen really at any moment here this hour. she could push back the start of the trial. what are you learning about that? >> right. so she in court today indicated that she's not inclined to go

along with the special counsel's idea of doing a trial as soon as december. the special counsel is saying that, look, this case is not a complicated trial. of course, the trump team is saying he's running for office, they want to litigate a number of things including the fact that they believe that the special counsel doesn't have the authority to bring this case. they want to litigate whether they can use the evidence collected from evan corcoran, one of trump's former lawyers, or actually he's still a lawyer for the former president. so there are a lot of things they say they still need to fight over between now and picking a trial date. she says that she seems to be inclined to pick a trial date, though not here as soon as december. we'll see, though, what date she does choose. and, of course, erin, we know that that could always slide simply because the former president is looking to try to stretch this as much as possible between now and the election day in 2024. >> all right, thank you very much, evan. and of course the possible indictment in this other case,

it all becomes a true chess board. all right, thank you. let's go to ty cobb now, the former trump white house lawyer. ty, appreciate you. so let's start with where we are tonight. trump finds out he is formally a target. will he be charged in days? or do you think this takes longer? and is there any question it happens? >> i think he could be charged as early as thursday, and not likely later than monday. >> all right. well, that's a very tight window. now let's talk about charged with what? what do you think he will be charged with here, ty? >> there are a variety of ways to charge this that all boil down to the same conduct. conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct or an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding such as the pence proceeding, and even the

state certifications, potential obstruction of justice for interference with witnesses. we've heard suggestions over time that some witnesses may have lied to the special counsel grand jury. there's an outside chance, and i think it's the media stuff, the charges, at least the true trump haters, there's an outside chance that he could be charged with giving aid and comfort to the insurrectionists. i don't think he can be charged with incitement, although that's out there, and some people are arguing it. but i do believe he could be charged with aid and comfort to the insurrectionists as a result of his three hours of inaction and the intervening message calling pence a coward. >> well, it's interesting, as you say, that that's possible outside chance of that, as

opposed to the others. now, let me ask you about the significance of the target letter in one other specific way, which is trump's team, they say that they were surprised to get it. maybe they were, maybe they weren't. but then they started going around to see if anybody else got them. and we found out today that john eastman says he did not get one, that rudy giuliani did not get one. what does this mean? >> i don't think it means much. unlike a lot of people. the reality is they've been in contact with eastman and his lawyer for some time. they'd been in contact with rudy and his lawyer. remember just last week, he visited with him i think for two days. they can have those conversations orally to the extent that those people actually are targets. target letters are not required. and, frankly, they typically go out in cases such as this to

people who the government is confident will not flee. so, i wouldn't put a lot of stock in the fact that not everybody has received a target letter because, unlike trump, many of the other people that have been involved have made efforts, at least to discuss their situation with the justice department and been in contact with the department. >> all right. it's interesting that your perspective on that. so then, the bottom line is you've talked about the significance of the mar-a-lago documents case. >> yes. >> that if convicted -- and i know there's questions on timing. just put all that aside for a second. essentially for someone his age, a conviction there is a life sentence. so he already is aware of that possibility. do you think this indictment is more serious, more scary for him than anything else, or not? >> i've got a convoluted answer,

i'm sorry to say. no, but only because of his narcissism. he sees any insult as equal to any other insult. these are all things that just taunt him, and he's ready to fight back on all fronts. it should concern him for, because it will be a legacy-defining decision far greater than the mar-a-lago offenses. this is one of the great constitutional insults of our time. the country owes it to itself to reassert the rule of law and demonstrate that at least the vision of america is something we're willing to protect and hope hopefully deter this from ever happening again. >> ty cobb, thank you very much. i appreciate your perspective. and "outfront" now, ryan goodman is here with me, our co-editor in chief of just

security, the former special counsel of the defense department. the former federal prosecutor. and our legal analyst, former special adviser to president obama. and former trump white house press secretary, who has spoken with federal prosecutors investigating this particular case. so all thank you. ryan, let me start with you, listening to what ty had to say, interesting his view. just because others didn't get a target letter, he does not think that that is necessarily significant to indicate anything here. what do you think? >> i had the same thought process that he had about giuliani that giuliani just spent two days with the prosecutors in which if he were a target they would have known it by then, and they would have communicated it or could've communicated it to him. so the fact that he didn't get a formal letter at this stage doesn't necessarily mean much of anything. if it means their absence of a target letter suggests an absence of an indictment -- >> which it may or may not. >> there are others who have suggested that the special

counsel smith should make this very narrow with trump right away, and then he can bring other individuals indicted later. >> karen, conservative retired federal judge michael lettig, he teifd before the january 6th committee. he said of trump, shared this statement with us, he is dared, taunted, provoked and goaded doj to prosecutor him relating to defenses related to january 6th for two years. similar point to what ty was just making. is this the situation that the special counsel really had no choice? >> well, i think, in addition to this, don't forget they also prosecuted a thousand people for the events of january 6th. >> serving serious prison time. >> exactly. and trump is the mastermind. he's the general who commanded these troops. and, so, to not charge him, i think that, more than anything,

is why jack smith had no choice but to charge him. getting goaded by a defendant, you have to let that roll off of you. either the evidence is there or it's not. and clearly the evidence is here. and you go for the big guy, the guy who commanded the violence. >> stephanie, it's interesting ty was just saying that for trump all things are the same, that the fact that this charges here would be truly historical in their context regarding the constitution and the rule of law, to him, is no different than the documents case. but i am curious as to whether you think he will continue to claim he didn't know he lost the election, given that no one with actually, you know, information and facts could make any such claim with a straight face, and given that everyone around him has testified that they told him that he lost the election. do you think he believes he can still claim, oh, but i just didn't know so i just didn't have the intent, i really thought i won, guys.

>> yeah, i mean, there's not much i can guarantee in life, but i can guarantee he will continue to say that he lost, knowing -- or continuing to say that he won, excuse me, knowing very well that he lost. he has to triple down and quadruple down because his base believes him and he needs that support. he needs to fundraise off of it. if you just think about it from a legal perspective, if he admits suddenly that he knew that he lost, i think it would get him in a whole lot of trouble. in order to save himself from the local woes, i think he'll continue. but he will never admit that he lost ever. >> i just think, you know, it's about time. the other cases are important cases, but the porn star stuff probably hurt his feelings more than anybody else. he was the cheer leader for an insurrection. and he's still walking around acting like everything's just fine. that is an offense to the american people.

>> giving speeches that would indicate he would do the same thing again. >> and would pardon people and the whole deal. i just think that, finally, we're getting down to the real stuff here. this is why he's going to go down in the history books as one of the worst presidents as a traitor to his own country. we're finally here. >> all stay with me because we're going to continue this conversation in just a few moments. the other breaking news, i don't want to gloss over it because it's really significant. michigan's attorney general charging 16 fake electors with trying to overturn the election in trump's favor, just before we came to air. this is a crucial development, and there are six other states with this situation. so where are we? what does this mean for trump? plus, a top republican now calling on trump to suspend his campaign as he faces more legal problems. republican governor chris sununu will be "outfront." and ron desantis speaking to cnn dismissing concerns as he struggles in the polls, and now struggles with fundraising. are his policies turning off

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such evidence would constitute malfeasance of the greatest magnitude. >> whether malfeasance is the greatest magnitude or not, i an historic moment here. because this is the first time that fake electors in any of these crucial states have been charged with a crime related to the election scheme. so this is important. and jessica schneider is in lansing. so, michigan -- obviously it's crucial. you talk about 16 people first time ever. and then you look at the other states. there is a whole group of them who are looking into fake electors tied to trump. what more can you tell us about the situation with the michigan fake electors and the charges they are facing there? >> reporter: this could potentially be just the beginning. but as it pertains to michigan, are 16 republicans who are essentially accused of trying to storm into the capitol here at lansing, michigan, armed with these fake certificates falsely proclaiming donald trump as the in the 2020 election. now, at the time in december

2020, they were rebuffed by police. but now they're being charged by the attorney general with eight different counts, multiple felonies, all of which, if convicted, they could face decades in prison here. now, these are republicans who supported trump, but they were also former and current gop officials. one was a member of the republican national committee. one is a sitting mayor. one was a member of the school board. but all of them believe that as republicans that they were the rightful electors for donald trump. despite the fact that joe biden won this state by 154,000 votes. so now all of them are facing these felonies. and it's significant, erin, because this isn't the only one. we're also seeing investigations in some of the six other states where these fake elector plots unfolded, including the fulton county d.a.'s office is investigating, and the state of arizona. plus, erin, special counsel jack smith, he has also made these fake elector plots part of his probe into the efforts to subvert the election.

he's had multiple fake electors actually testify before the grand jury. so, again, these charges by the attorney general here in michigan, it could be just the beginning. >> jessica, thank you very much. and everyone back with me. so, karen, on that front that jessica just said, this could be just the beginning. and she mentioned arizona and of course georgia, where we know the investigation could lead directly to trump himself but also you also have issues on the fake electors. so, where are we in this? >> look, it's about time. why wdid it take so long for a state to bring this very discreet, very important charge against these people who lie and forge information on official documents and to try to literally steal the election from joe biden in michigan? that's a very discreet set of charges. and it's good that she's bringing them. but you're going to see, i think, in georgia, a much bigger, a more sweeping case. and i think in different states you'll see different levels of

charges being brought. i think everybody needs to bring charges here because it's so serious. but you have to wonder why did it take so long and we're butting up against the next election. >> if you're going to charge 16 people there and hundreds of people, you're charging a lot of people with a lot of stuff. it'd be kind of odd to not charge one person out of all of this. some of the evidence in michigan that the attorney general points to is language on the fake elector slate that was submitted to congress. so they submit this to congress. and in that you saw something very important. it said, we convened and organized in the state capitol. so if you're an elector, you're going to convene there. they said that's what they did. but they actually met at the republican state headquarters, according to the january 6th committee report, which i guess is not in the state capitol, the pro-trump attorney flagged this as slightly problematic in a memo to the trump campaign. now, anyone watching may say

this seems like a detail. it is a detail, but a detail you think matters. >> it's a detail that matters. it mattered to the trump campaign lawyer, and he said this is a problem. he is mapping out the secret memo how they can do these false electors across the seven states. michigan may have a problem because it's a legal requirement that you have to convene in the state capitol. that's why they obviously put it in their declaration that we are convened in the state capitol. and it is just a falsehood. they can say, oh, we thought trump won the election and that's why we did this. did you think you were in the capitol? you are not in the capitol, you were in the basement of the gop headquarters in lansing. that's where you were when you convened. it's a false statement that they submit to state and federal authorities that is almost an open-and-shut case. >> it's important, a false statement is a false statement, that's a lie we're talking about laws and lies. here's the thing, though. as all of this is happening, and we may, as i said, start to see

things -- it's like a snowball, builds and builds and builds and suddenly you have an avalanche. but the bottom line is every day that nothing happens is a day where trump goes out and tells his faithful that the election was stolen and rigged and that if he loses again, it is also rigged. >> i think part of the problem is it's just taking so long. and can you imagine if a bunch of muslims had attacked the capitol and had some big conspiracy, they would have been in jail in about 13 minutes. we wouldn't be here talking about it. part of what's going on is this sort of meticulous long-grinding process actually now makes the case easier to make. they're just doing it because of the election. they're doing this just to try to keep me from becoming president. and i think it's really bad. like, hurry up, let's go. you cannot have more of an open and shut case than what you saw, an open conspiracy to steal this

election. so many people, obviously, they were bragging about it on facebook. they weren't even ashamed. >> there really wasn't an effort to obfuscate. >> a conspiracy is usually secret. this was just out in the open, like, we're doing this. >> maybe we're using the wrong word. and, yet, stephanie, what van points out is exactly what we are hearing trump say. okay, so if these things happen, it's all an effort now to stop me from winning. >> right. i echo van and i echo karen that it is about time. but, yes, this timing isn't great. the wheels of justice turn slowly. we all know that. so you've got your legal issue and you've got your pr, your public relations issue. and in this case, sadly, in this upside down world we're living in, this actually, i think, again, helps trump. he's going to fundraise off of it. it's going to be more poor me, poor me. he's already calling the leadership on the hill and getting people out there to defend him. they're certainly not going to ever admit that he did anything wrong. and, so, that's the issue here,

the pr issue or the legal issue. and, sadly, this makes the pr issue for trump a positive. >> all right, stephanie, van, ryan, karen, thank you all. and, next, trump is actually in iowa right now. and he is about to speak first time since revealing he could face his third indictment of the year. what do you expect he's going to say? and ron desantis defending his campaign as it is lagging even further now behind trump. >> our bread and butter were people like suburban moms. we're leading a big movement for parents rights, having the parents be involved in education, school choice, get the indoctrination out of schools. >> is the culture war front line in education a backfiring strategy for him? governor chris sununu of new hampshire, whose endorsement desantis badly needs, is "outfront" next. breaking news in ukraine tonight. putin launching a new wave of attacks on the city of odesa. our team just capturing this

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tonight at 9:00, is a third trump indictment coming? the former president says he's a target in the special counsel's january sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared.

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we are going to get back to our breaking news coverage of former president donald trump being told he's a target in the doj election interference probe. but this is live what you're hearing. we're also awaiting a key ruling in the mar-a-lago documents case any moment. but first this breaking news from ukraine. all right. so, we're working to get alex marquardt up. this is what's actually happening right now in odesa. you can hear this. obviously we were just there with president zelenskyy. and now this is what's happening here now. loud booms, air raid sirens coming in from russia. our alex marquardt is there. alex, can you hear me? and take it away. >> reporter: erin, i can hear you just fine. what you're playing there are some of the extraordinary scenes that we have seen playing out really over the course of the past hour here in odesa. this is a very -- this is a lull. we hope that it is a long lull

or in fact the end of what might be a very loud and violent night here in odesa. of course, it's just past 2:00 in the morning. what we've heard is a significant barrage of drones and missiles attempting to strike this city. we have seen just these extraordinary scenes of ukrainian air defense trying to fend off what we imagine are these iranian-made drones. these are the drones that russia tries to send at odesa and other ukrainian cities on an almost daily basis. but also these huge caliber cruise missiles that have been fired at this city now for two nights in a row from the black sea. these are enormous missiles that at least last night ukraine said that they had intercepted. but last night we heard some impacts tonight, erin, a lot more impacts. this has been a much busier, much louder night than last night. we did hear i would say six to

ten of these loud impacts all around us. now, we are in downtown odesa. this is one of the biggest cities, one of the most important cities in the country. we're not too far from that critical port. what impact or, rather, what effect these missiles have had on this city at this point, that certainly remains to be seen. we're keeping our eyes glued on the sky, because what we've been seeing are these tracer rounds, these red tracers going up by the hundreds to take down these drones that start up at any moment without any notice. you can hear, erin, you've just been in ukraine, that there is no air raid siren. the air raid sirens have been notably absent tonight. but we have seen spotlights in the sky. we assume that those are ukrainian forces looking for those drones, trying to shoot them down, just extraordinary scenes. i've really never seen anything like it in years of covering conflict. erin, the kremlin had already said earlier today that this was

a direct response, a direct retaliation for ukraine carrying out the attack on the kerch bridge between crimea and mainland russia. and the kremlin said, in fact, they were still looking for more options to respond even further. and it is safe to assume, erin, that this second night in a row, this much heavier second night in a row is a continuation of that response from the kremlin. >> you know, and, alex, you obviously were here on the show 24 hours ago when you were talking about explosions that, obviously, as you were speaking, that was happening. you also were hearing those air raid sirens. and, of course, as we all know, you become accustomed to those air raid sirens. but they're meaningful, and often they are related to drones, caliber missiles, whatever it might be. but you're talking about tonight not hearing those air raid sirens. and i know you don't know the reason as to why. but it does seem notable. >> reporter: you're absolutely right, erin.

we should make the point that often times there are air raid sirens that are all across the country. for example, when a bomber is sent up in russia, we can hear an air raid siren all across the country because we simply don't know where that russian bomber is going to target. and, so, ukrainian authorities want their citizens to take cover and go into basements so that they aren't hurt. they want them to stay away from windows so that if there is an explosion that they don't get hurt. it's hard to say, but there certainly were air raid sirens earlier in the evening. there has been a lot going on, erin. i really can't overstate that enough. it has been just an extraordinary mix of these antiaircraft machine guns firing into the air. we have seen what appear to be drones falling out of the sky or at least some kind of object on fire streaking out of the sky. we saw that last night as well. and then these extraordinary

sounds of impact so loud that it has set off car alarms all around town. it's very difficult to say where those impacts were, how far away from us. but certainly enough to shake the building that we're in and cause the cars around us to have their alarms go off. >> so, alex, what is the sense of how much this escalates from here? obviously, you're in odesa, current home of the ukrainian navy, such that there still is. crimea off in the distance. it's a crucial location, as you point out. is there a feeling that you are seeing sort of the actual event, or the prelude to the actual event? >> reporter: well, this probably is the actual event. this is essentially the extent of what russia can throw at a city like odesa without significant escalation. of course there's a lot farther that russia can go. but this is what they've been doing, a combination of missile

and drone strikes targeting cities all across the country. flashback all across the country. go back nine months ago, erin, after the first attack on the kerch bridge. we saw the biggest wave of strikes by russia since the war had begun. the kremlin warned that they would also respond after this latest kerch bridge strike. and that started last night, some 24 hours after that ukrainian attack. so here we are two nights in a row. russia clearly sending a message, and a message of response to that attack. of course, the ukrainians took out this bridge that was not just hugely important as a vital supply route but also hugely symbolic. a pet project of putin's to connect russia to illegally annex crimea. this is the putin response. this is the kremlin response to that attack. where it goes from here is unclear. it might be over for now. it could very well start up in

just -- at a moment's notice. it's an extremely fluid situation. >> all right, alex, thank you very much. we're glad that you are safe. thank you for sharing all this with us. alex live from odesa tonight. we'll continue to monitor that in these early hours of the morning. it's about 2:39 in the morning where alex is right now. next, meantime, ron desantis defending his campaign. he's been obviously struggling to gain traction. the republican governor chris sununu whose endorsement desantis needs badly, is "outfront" next. and all eyes are on florida this hour. a federal judge there could decide at any time when trump will go on trial for the classified documents case. as i said, that could happen any moment, and congressman jamie raskin, a member of the january 6th committee, will join me. it not only cleans, it h hydrates my skin. as a dermatologistst, i want what's best for our skin. with 1/4 moisturizing cream, dove is the #1 bar dermatologists use at home. oh, booking.com

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just into cnn, donald trump wrapping up a speech moments ago in iowa. it is the first time he's spoken since he announced he is a target of special counsel jack smith's probe into his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. and he said this as trump faces a third possible indictment. >> we have a man the only way he can get elect school district to weaponize the justice department, which he's gone around doing. i didn't know practically what a subpoena was and grand juries and all of this. now i'm, like, becoming an expert. i have no choice. it's a disgrace.

if you say something about an election, they want to put you in jail for the rest of your life. we have prosecutors that are evil people. these are evil people. deranged. >> trump's remarks just hours after he scrambled to call top allies on capitol hill, including the house speaker kevin mccarthy and the house gop conference chair elise stefanik to strategize. you know what's happening here, kristin, who trump's talking to, what they're saying. what are you learning about trump's strategy here? >> reporter: well, look, there is always going to be two strategies in theory. the political strategy and the legal strategy. but as we continue down this path with more and more of these legal issues, more and more of these indictments, they really start to merge together. and that's what you just saw there in those unannounced remarks. he stopped by the lynn county republican party. a small group gathered there to cheer him on. and he talks about how deranged this is. this is part of their election strategy because they are going to continue to paint this as a

witch hunt and a hoax. and that is when you start to see these two strategies merge. we know the former president likes to play things out in the court of public opinion. and that is what he is going to continue to do. and that is what his team is going to continue to do. we do also know because we saw those sec filings from the campaign, those finance reports, that the strategy of essentially fundraising off of these indictments is working for the former president. the numbers don't lie. they show an enormous amount of money in the last quarter, more than the first quarter, more after the indictments and those arraignments. and that is what his team is banking on. again, they also saw those poll numbers as well maintaining those poll numbers, not going down. however, i do want to note one thing. i have talked to several allies who say that while this might give him a boost right now, this is completely unprecedented, as we know, and it is unclear what this looks like in the long run. >> kristin, thank you very much. i want to go now to the republican governor of new

hampshire, chris sununu. governor, i really appreciate your time. here's where we are this moment. and things could change a lot over the next few days. but two indictments for trump this year so far. one of his republican rivals, asa hutchinson, i have said from the beginning that donald trump's actions on january 6th should disqualify him from ever being president again. anyone who truly loves this country and is willing to put the country over themselves would suspend their campaign for president of the united states immediately. do you agree, governor? and is an indictment in the january 6th probe, as we anticipate there may be one in the next two days, disqualifying? >> it should be, but it's just not. he's not going to get out. in fact, as much as these indictments roll out, it just helps him. it's building a lot of sympathy on his side. his poll numbers go up. so, he looks dour.

he gets up there in his rallies. instead of 90 minutes of getting people excited, he gets up and does 90 minutes of a droning legal recital of the indictments and the woe is me. it's like a sad lenny bruce repeating itself in 2023. but it builds all this sympathy. there is no question there's a lot of democrats cheering this on because they completely see how this will play out. this allows him to gain sympathy, likely win the republican nomination, and get absolutely crushed in november of '24 because there's no undecided voter who's going to see all this and see all the drama, see the soap opera and say i've changed my mind, i'm back to that guy. no, not a single one. so it really spells a lot of trouble for the republican party if he were to stay on top. >> all right. so, look, you've been clear that

trump shouldn't be the gop nominee. i do think it's important, you pointed something out which i hadn't mentioned and deserves mentioning. he's in a small room in iowa, he's not at a big rally. but he does sound tired and beaten down. the tone, that's what it is. but here's the reality. >> this is not the donald trump of 2016. >> no. rtnly not what we hear the. brand new pollut of your state shows exactly what you just said. he's got a wide lead. and it's getting bigger. 14 percentage point lead over ron desantis in new hampshire righnow. and desantis, though, downplayed concerns about his campaign. he tries to say everything's doing fine. he had an exclusive interview with jake tapper. let me play something he said, governor. >> this issue gets into the state of the race, because some of your supporters are disappointed that your campaign has yet to catch fire the way they would want in terms of polling. one really pollster, i was asking her about your campaign.

and she thought the issue was you bumped up at the beginning because voters, republican voters saw you as more electable conservative like trump, like trump without the baggage. but then they say as you go further and further to the right on some of these divisive social issues that could alienate moderate suburban moms, et cetera, republican voters see you as less and less electable. what do you say to that analysis? >> i don't think it's true. the proof is in the pudding. i took a state that had been a one-point state, and we won it by 20 percentage points, 1.5 million votes. our bread and butter were people like suburban moms. we're leading a big movement for parents rights, have the parents be involved in education, school choice, get the indoctrination out of schools. of course, there's bread and butter issues that you see crim

communities, the reason is i was getting a lot of immediate attention at the time, coming up the victory, i had to do my job as governor with legislative session, we had a great way to sit of session -- legislative session, and huge majorities of the population, and and taking fire, really nonstop, and they view it as a threat, the left views me as a threat, delivering on all the stuff, and allegiances in the republican side, have gone after me, the reality is it is a state-by-state process, not running a campaign to try to juice whatever we are in the national polls, whatever we did in the cnn, whatever, definitely doing better than anybody else. >> it is state-by-state. >> state-by-state. >> governor i'm curious, for july 2023, things can cycle

back through, you don't know where went up, where we are right now, and people thought was a shining star, and didn't, it's gotten worse in at least at this link i what you think it is that is turned voters off to him? >> nobody searched, it's more that the the sympathetic, the candidates running, were president, and if he wasn't garnering headlines, if they want happening, i've no doubt that ron desantis or other candidates searching, and around the other candidate, and had to his point, is having to govern, some of the still have 24/7 jobs, a lot of time left, with an estimate great questions, the governor gave

good answers in terms of you can't seize going to right of he won florida by 20 points, he does have the support of independence and democrats as do other potential candidates, i think there's a lot to play with, we see a mind of a stage. we are still a month away from the debate dates, that will be telling, who can take and give a punch, stand up and push back on the former president and show where we are going forward as a country. and of course we don't know whether the president will be on the stage or not, he could be, whether you choose to be, you see has made the requirements, what is that campaign at this point, waiting until after the debate to see or not?>> i am campaigning with the kids this right now, they do their retail stops, i will go out and spend time with them, some of them are doing multiple events with me and helping them do good retail politics. with all of them in the race,

if they do well here on the retail side, good for new hampshire in the country and it's not about policy, it's about looking the eye, and buying you as a person of the rest of the country watches that. myself and the team will be a big part of that hallway through the fall, and if the candidate standing out, i do got no problem standing behind them and endorsing them.>> obviously governor, always good to talk to you. let's go to harry, here's the reality, and i noverr what -- i know what the governor saying, nobody has surged, that's true but state-by-state you do see it, chris cristi new hampshire, there are some, but his point does hold. however, in the case of ron desantis, people expect a lot, they didn't expect anything from the other guys. >> correct. >> or from nikki haley, ron desantis and his people expect a lot, what's up?

>> if you look underneath the hood there is a big problem for the flora governor. look at his very favorable ratings, it historically has turned to support at the ballot box, favorable ratings among republicans have droppedy about 15 points since the nning of the year. so yes, trump might've come up in the polls little bit, nobody searched, who wasn't donald trump but if you look underneath the hood there's real problems for ron desantis. >> very important, you want people who get to know you, the more they like you, there is one group that does like ron desantis. made up the vast majority ofter his donations, while small donors, the oneskeep giving to the campaign made up only a tiny fraction, but even the big donors at this particular point, it suggests they are looking at tim scott at this point. i'm not quite sure who he is appealing to at this point. >> one of the big donors recently said he thinks ron desantis probably could be done,

who knows, we are early in the cycle. if he were to be in the primary like with joe biden, right now? >> is within the margi error of the curreresident of united dates but the thing that has occurred is used to run better against joe biden than trump, and now trump run slightly better than desantis, can't make the elect ability argument either. >> thank you very much. a federal judge was a trump appointee they ruled on when the mar-a-lago documents case to go to trial, we've been awaiting the possible ruling, could come anytime, jamie raskin, a member of the january 6 committee and ranking member of the house oversight committee, and lawyer in constitutional law professor and expert, congressman, appreciate you being here. the u.s. district judge that i'm referring to, eileen canning, told prosecutors at the mid december trial date they want would be too soon,

obviously delaying it past the election appears to be a core part of trump's strategy, delay it and hopefully it goes away, this is a judge that trump appointed, trump has been on national television calling on her to do the right thing, when you look at it, look at what she has done thus far in the case, do you think she is acting in good faith are being influenced by trump? >> i don't know subjectively what's motivating her, but i do know that trump lawyers are not just in this case is but in cases around the country arguing for any possible delay or postponement to try to push it into next year where they can say surely this can't be done election year, it has to be pushed until after the election. so when he was president his claim was, he could never be prosecuted for anything because he is president, when he was no longer president the argument became now he is a candidate, now he is a candidate can't be prosecuted, so all of these delay and postponement,

dilatory tactics are being used all over the country.'s eager rudy giuliani has not received a target letter, john eastman said he did not get one either, we don't know about mark meadows, of course in the context of the efforts to overturn the election and the fact that trump has received a target letter from the special counsel, congressman, from what you understand, the tea leaves, do you think any members of his inner circle will be indicted in this team? >> i can say, trump himself has said that he received a letter, and so that is like mixing knowing that is potentially a target in the watergate prosecution, it of course all goes back to donald trump, who was the one that mobilized everybody to go to the capital on january 6, the original permits were for january 20, for those test, he was the one

who turned january 6 into a date for convergence of both his political plan and then history plan to try to disrupt and overthrow the counting of the electoral votes. >> i want to ask you one of the thing before you go, the democratic presidential candidate, robert f kennedy is set to appear at the republican- led weaponization of the government, house democrats to ban him for repeated conspiracy theories, like what he said at a fundraiser this last week. >> covid-19 is targeted to actin applications. and the people who are most immune are eskenazi juice and chinese people. we don't know if it was delivered a target or not. >> it is on tape, how much harm you think you can do if he's on the witness and thursday?>>

anti-asian and anti-semitic conspiracy theories and paranoid tropes are now replete in the land, and all over the world and it is sad to the a name so associated with the democratic party, a name that so many democrats love, participating and partaking in that kind of paranoid statement. was no evidence and no facts word, they're calling for bobby kennedy to come testify because they think you will be a divisive force and he doesn't have factual evidence to offer. >> certainly has not stopped him from saying these things. >> i appreciate your time and appreciate your time for watching us, and ac 360 begins now. >> after historic and whirlwind day, and