♪ the new summer family meal. starting at $24. only at el pollo loco. - [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. >> good evening. after a historic and world when day about the former presidents efforts to overturn the 2020 election, he says in cnn

confirms, the special counsel has informed him that he is a target of the federal investigation to those efforts. the target letter, as it is known, the clear science and data that the former president could be indicted. this is also the first time in history that the former president has received such a letter regarding efforts to overturn the election. think about that. plenty of presidents in the history of these united states wanted to stay in power. none of them have been accused of taking the actions that this man did [interpreter] . we should point out that it is not the first time a former president has received a target letter. it has happened once before. the former president happened to also be donald trump when -- he received that target letter two months ago, exactly may 19th, involving special counsel jack smith's investigation into the mishandling of classified

documents which of course led to an indictment 20 days later. there is more news today on that investigation as well. there was a court hearing in florida, attended two and indicted the aid to the former president, walk not. not the former president himself. a federal judge that the decision on the trial date will come, in her words, promptly. meaning at anytime. aileen cannon also said the -- she also appears skeptical, pushing the trial against after the election. there is also another big development today in michigan, also for the first time ever. fake electors who signed documents claiming that the former president won in 2020, they've now been charged in a scheme to overturn the election. eight felony counts covering 16 people, including top, current,

and former republicans in that state. there is a lot to get to in this hour, including how republicans are defending the former president today. plus, we will talk to republican presidential candidate will heard ahead. we start with the target letter, meaning legal analysts say improving intent will be important for any possible future indictment. did the former president know that he lost the 2020 election? they still schemed to overturn its results. according to testimony during the house select committee hearings on january 6th, he did know that he lost. >> i remember maybe a week after the election was called, i popped into the oval to just get the president of headlines to see how he was doing. he was looking at the tv and, said can you believe i lost to this effing guy? >> the president was just raging about the decision, how it's, wrong how there were calls. just, you know, this typical anger at this decision. the prident said --

he said something to the effective, i don't want people to know that we lost. this is embarrsing. figured out, we need to figure it out. i don't want people to know that we lost. >> chris griffin, we just heard from in a moment, joined by laurence tribe, also the coauthor of it to end a presidency, the power of impeachment. professor tribe, thank you for being with us. i want to read a statement from former conservative judge, michael luttig, have informed mike pence on how to handle the generous 16 election certification vote. he wrote saying today, there is not an attorney general or special counsel in either party that would not bring charges against the former president for his efforts on january 6th to overturn the 2020 presidential election. he has dared, taunted, promoted, and go to the doj to prosecute him for -- relating to january six for two and a half years. former president has left jeffrey smith no choice but to bring the charges, lest the former president make a mockery of the constitution of the united states in the rule of law. do you agree with him? >> i agree completely with judge luttig, special counsel jack smith had no choice, and the target letter is one that makes it absolutely clear that within days, we don't know if

it'll be this week or at the very beginning of next week, donald trump will finally be indicted for his role in the attempt to overturn the election. by any means possible, and including aiding and abetting in insurrection. the most serious charge short of treason that could be lodged against the former president. >> what makes you confident that it would happen so quickly itat the end of this week, you'e talking possibly in the thursday, friday, or into monday of early next week. what makes you confident in that? the last letter that he received, i think it is about three weeks before the actual indictment came down. >> i'm not going to bed anything on exactly when it's going to happen. i do think that it's more likely to be quicker this time because we have seen a parade of people called by the grand jury. all these people around donald trump. there's really nothing left for the special counsel to do but to actually indict the former president. i would be surprised if it were as long as one week or two.

i would not be shocked. one way or another, is going to happen. it is going to make it very difficult for the former president to keep claiming that he is the victim of a witch hunt. as judge luttig said, he has made it impossible for any self-respecting special counsel or attorney general not to charge him. all of the people that were engaged as footsoldiers in the violent insurrection, they have been systematically charged by the person who called them to washington, who watched while they became violent. who encouraged them to remain violent, who made it clear that his sights were on his former vice president for that person to escape accountability would

mean that they have one rule of law for ordinary citizens, and another for a former president. that cannot be what we have in a democracy. when he was president, the rule that he invoked was that you cannot charge me, i am president. when he ceased being president, he said you can't charge, what you are used to be president. that's not the way the democracy works. it's not a banana republic. >> do you have any sense of what the possible charges might be? what they might encompass? >> that's for sure. there is an elaborate memorandum, almost 300 pages on norm, eisen, and a group of others, experts, former prosecutors. laying out in great detail what

the charges are likely to be. they are likely to focus on the fake electors, the attempt to say that the election was stolen when the former president knew that it was not. they're likely to include a second pressure on various people, and including the former vice president. finally, they are likely to include aiding and abetting an insurrection. if the president were to be convicted of that, he would be ineligible to run again. of course, he always claims that he's the victim. he's going to claim that the only reason this is happening is because he's running for president. that is getting it backwards. the main reason that he's running for president is that that is the only way he thinks he can stay out of jail. he wants to be president so that he can pardon himself, or maybe declare himself unfit for

a while under the 25th amendment so that whoever he has as vice president can pardon him. just in case there's any legal doubt about the ability of a president to pardon himself. this is a three act play. we are likely to see it quite dramatically play out. of course, in the meantime, we know that he's going to be charged by fani willis in georgia, sprawling indictment, probably next month. we know he's already on trial before the likely friendly judge, judge aileen cannon for espionage in connection with the top secret documents that he stole when he left the white house and refused to return. that is of course also being charged by alvin bragg.

at the same time, we have seen in georgia, fake electors now in michigan are themselves being charged. the walls are closing in from every direction.

finally, it looks like he will be held accountable. >> professor laurence tribe, thank you for your time tonight, busy day. joining us now, cnn political analyst and new york times reporter, aston heard in. the testimony to the january six committee, you just saw a moment ago. cnn political commentator, former white house communications director. kaitlan collins. legal analyst and former assistant to u.s. attorney elie honig, pilot -- former fbi deputy fbi director. but how worried should the former president be tonight? >> he should be very wary. . just a couple things about target letters. he did know how many people in

-- the department is not required to serve a target letter on anybody before they get indicted. they can do it in some cases, they've clearly done it here. it is a very clear indication that they are looking squarely at him, but they had substantial evidence against him. they are likely to indict these -- if the matter is still up for judgment in the prosecutors office. i think he should be very concerned about getting indicted on what will undoubtedly be a very serious case. >> elie, do you agree with professor tribe about the timing, and also the possible charges? >> i agree with professor chi -- the charges are very near. i wouldn't bank on a certain day, i think he was careful not to do that. i agree in part, disagree in part on what the charges are

likely to be. i think that we are likely to see, given jack smith's history, he looks for the most straightforward non dramatic charge that he could bring and proof. that's why i've been saying that we're looking at a conspiracy to de-fraud the united states, potentially an effort to obstruct congress, potentially a false statements charge relating to the submission of false electors. i don't expect to see an insurrection charge, as professor tribe just said. that would be the single most dramatic charge the jacks mitt could bring. he doesn't need to. he doesn't need that drama, he doesn't need to prove that donald trump was trying to overthrow the government of the united states. i think that that is a bridge too far for jack smith's tastes. >> caitlin, what about the

former presidents reaction, historical, what do you think? >> we heard trump speaking out tonight. he's kind of already mounting a defense, he clearly believes that he's going to be charged here. he's mounting a defense, saying essentially that i have a right to protest the election, the election results. that's not what he's doing, he's trying to overturn the fair election results. his team in the meantime has been calling around to other attorneys. these attorneys for these people have gotten to know each other quite well over the last several months during this investigation, trying to find out if anybody else has had a

target letter. we've been asking this question since trump first posted this this morning. so, far we haven't heard of one other person getting a target letter. that factor has surprised trump's team. they thought other target letters would go out before they got to trump. the idea that is going to trump first has kind of surprised them, i guess, to a degree, that is what they've been doing on the phone today. >> elie, are you surprised by that, there are no other target letters that we know about out there? is it possible he would be the only one? >> it's possible he's the only one who's received a target letter as of now. it would surprise me that if all is said and done, he's the only person charged. it's hard to concede a scenario where the only person who engaged in criminal conduct was donald trump. he had a lot of enablers. there is a strategy here at the doj is trying to get to the top person as quickly as possible,

not load up the indictment with extra defendants, extra evidence extra motions, where you say, let's just go after the top guy. we think we have a case, let's indict him alone. and then we can get to the others later and separately. >> do you think this bolsters the president among his supporters? >> it likely does, if the evidence from the last two indictments has been any clue. i think that's the difference between the legal perspective here in the political. and there's a lot of reasons to be legally nervous, but politically, he's never looked better. he still remains the kind of front runner in the short term for the republican primary. we have seen republican voters try to rally around that.

if there is a bad sign there, we also see a kind of -- even among republicans. if you look at polling, he remains the plurality support, the kind of 30s, 40s, about other candidates. you see an increasing number of people that say they do not want donald trump to be the nominee, even among the republican base. if you look a little bit longer term, you look to a general election, the goal is still to win back the white house for donald trump. it's a bad thing for swing voters. it's a bad thing for independents. those kinds of signs have been very clear since the beginning for donald trump, being really

worrisome on that front. and in the short term, the question about the republican primary that kind of builds up to iowa, we have consistently seen the republican electorate rally behind him, and fit within that narrative of victimization, and the weaponization of the federal government against them? we know that's the core they're going to play. to this, point it's been the card that's worked. >> and speaker mccarthy, echoing that he was his go-to today, the weaponization that this is essentially joe biden, the president, seeing that trump's poll numbers are going up, and so he pulled the levers of the doj, and weaponize the government against trump. ridtradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors.

allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. [clock alarm] ♪ morning. ♪ ♪ life after student debt is within reach. refi at sofi.com. you could save thousands and get to your goals faster. sofi. get your money right. will you pause it real quick? (mumbles) just sold the car to carvana.

what? all i had to do was answer a couple questions and got a real offer in seconds. then, they just picked up the car and paid me right on the spot. sell your car at carvana dot com today. ♪ pets are raw. raw curiosity. raw love. raw energy. no dog ever thought, “what if someone sees me like this?” no cat ever asked permission before taking up residence on your keyboard. raw is all pets are, and raw is all they need. raw attention. raw affection. and raw food. like what we make here at stella & chewy's.

as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here... ...may put you in one of those... ...or even worse. too much? that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

in almost as many months from the special counsel. indicating he's targeting the investigation with the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. mitch mcconnell was silent, didn't respond to cnn's questions, today other republicans today did have a lot to say. president trump went up in the polls and was actually surpassed-ing -- so what did they do? now weaponizing government. go after their number one opponent. it is time and time again that i think the american public is tired of this -- >> we have, yet another example of joe biden's weaponized department of justice. targeting his top political opponent, donald trump. >> why are they doing

everything they can from preventing him from being on the ballot in 2024? i'll tell you why. because donald trump will win in 2020. four and the left, they're scared [bleep] >> one more ridiculous thing from the justice department to get. >> are they going to arrest president trump? trump charged him with phony fake charges and then hold him in prison while he is winning the republican primary. and while he's going to win the general election in 2024. >> and just a reminder kevin mccarthy you heard at the beginning of that montage, saying that they've been weaponized against trump, actually initially blaming the former president for the january 6th attack. but then changing his mind a few weeks later, back with us in our panel, joining us as well, cnn political commentary david urban, one-time campaign adviser to the former president. david, let me start with you. we haven't heard from you yet. how bad of a day was this for the former president? >> yeah, look, there are two standards. the legal standard, the political standard. legally?

pretty bad day. politically? just another day in trump world, right, anderson? we've been through two impeachments. i sat next to you on this -- through two indictments and at this point, i think the president just shrugs it off and keeps moving forward. as he continues to lead the polls. >> alyssa, i mean, we just heard from a bunch of republicans. there were a couple of senators who did, you know, mitt romney, the usual suspects, john thune as well. you know, romney said, the reality is that president trump 's in a number of terrible things on january 6th. thune said, is part of the distractions, they're always gonna be surrounding the former president. relatively tepid stuff, given the charges. >> i mean, i want to take a step back. i work for jim jordan, who is one of the people that spoke out on this. just put the show on the other foot. let's pretend that barack obama refused to leave office after leading incited an insurrection, his -- around him tried to do this doj sort of fake electors scheme.

the loudest people would be those members of congress saying, he should be impeached, or he should be held accountable, he should be indicted. >> i mean -- president obama was from classified documents to people -- >> any of the above. like, this has gone to such dangerous sheer partisanship that, like, it just kind of defies reality. everyone knows, i was in the west wing, you know, after donald trump lost the election. every aid around him with maybe the exception of peter navarro knew that he lost the election. donald trump knew that he lost the election. it was just a matter of how were we going to handle it? in some aides, to their credit, myself included, hope hicks said, let's go on the campaign trail and talk about your accomplishments, get a lot of people vaccinated. instead, he went to very different and a lot of people enabled it. those tickets are coming home to roost. >> -- the republican field, former

president is far and away the leader. >> exactly. hear the difference in how they talk about donald trump from the house perspective, right? not talk about the former presidents actions, but the future nominee. they're really focusing on the fact that the political aspect still looks in his favor. i think that that has been his biggest legal defense, has been the political one. and the reason, the question is why do we hear a different thing from house gop members, maybe it's and set it and other portions? when we look at the house, a lot of those people coming from places that are gerrymandered maps, safe seats. we've seen increasingly few swing districts in the house and that gives on the kind of political backing, when you have to be all in for the base. that's a different kind of

calculation in the senate. i think that's why you hear kind of different things coming out of the senate or just silence from them being willing to defend him in a bigger sense. but for those house people, who i think are closely, more closely tied to the political base of donald trump, the folks who are driving the kind of plurality of his support and the republican primary, they know who butters their bread. you see that in the statements, that really reflecting the kind of donald trump fandom that is still at the core of the republican party, even though we should continually say, it's not the majority. we are not seeing him crack the 50% ceiling. not seen him grow the base of support. we are still seeing him be top -- independents and swing voters, and folks for the general election. but in that short term, and the kind of people who are most important for their individual

districts, kind of activist class, that's really who's driving this. i think about the michigan electors, you know, those are people who michigan was one of the states where you saw kind of trap wing really rise in the state party there. those are some of the same people we see get charged today. the kind of trumpism that's been at the core of the republican apparatus and that's what we've really seen in the last couple of days. >> what's so surreal, kaitlin, about seeing the former president on, you know, at campaign events is if you ask anybody, what is he actually running on? i think would be very hard pressed to actually hear any policies. i mean, all these other candidates can try to talk about policies and differences between them. he's just running grievances. he's just running the same playlist he ran before. >> and that's, you know, as rhonda sanchez has been criticized for his missteps and he's trying to kind of have this inflection point in his campaign, and they're focusing on his policies, and they're unveiling them and kind of got this whole scenario planned out, but then here, they have today, trump gets a target letter. he makes it public, he's waiting to be indicted, potentially, as he's made clear, and that is what -- all these candidates are being asked. >> the former president's biggest policy claims you can end the war in ukraine in 24 hours, which is not only just ludicrous, i mean, it's nonsensical. >> also his other one is that he's being indicted for his supporters. i mean, that's what he was just saying that --

>> right, he's a jesus-like martyr. >> he said, i'm being indicted for you. it's better me than you, right? is what he's essentially saying and i talked to governor kemp of georgia about this, who said he would still work to help get trump elected visa nominee. so clearly, not super anti trump person, and i asked if that's a winning message in georgia. he said, no. the idea of running on the 2020 election, you're going to lose the state of georgia. >> -- >> going to come back. everyone else, thank you. remember, you can see caitlin at the top of the hour on the source. just about half an hour from now. and next, here's dr. nathan in the half hour. next breath, the phony electors. they signed certificates falsely claiming donald trump won the state of michigan in 2020. these are actual human beings who did this. they are now facing multiple felonies. details, ahead. that's video of them, actually, there they are. also an extraordinary images out of ukraine just moments ago, as russia launches another -- strikes for ukraine taking ou one of their key supply lines. that bridge, a live repo from he scene. - ancestry's helped me really understand my family's immigration experience and what life must have been like for them. and as i pass it on to my daughter, it's an important part of understanding who we are.

♪ ♪ we're reinventing our network... ...with smarter, more efficient routes... ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire hey, stop, stop, stop. found it. ( sfx: thud ) was that good? i couldn't tell. there's no such thing as out of bounds. find adventure at the lexus golden opportunity sales event.

( ♪ )

- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. >> michigan's attorney general is charged 16 fake electors with multiple felonies for trying to overturn the 2020 election in favor of then president trump. now, several are republican officials, including a current mayor. it's the first time any of the

fake electors had been charged with a crime relating to the scheme. the group of fake gop electors was turned away from the michigan state house back in december of 2020. that's the video right there, while the actual group of democratic electors was meeting inside. the plot to put forward fake pro trump electors and keep battleground states is, of course, being investigated by special counsel, jack smith. joining me now is michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. secretary benson, appreciate you being with us. what's your reaction to the charges filed today? >> i think it's, well, one, i'm very pleased to see these charges brought because this was far more than just a ceremonial attempt. this was an actual, actionable effort to undermine the will of the voters. one that we fought at the time

successfully and now we need to see justice for those who attempted. and secondly, i think it's a really strong, bold statement. rooted in facts and evidence, and the law, that says, it is not okay for you, for anyone to try to block the will of the people from coming to fruition in any election, regardless of the winner. and if you attempt to do that, in any election, there will be consequences. >> are you concerned or is there a chance, in your opinion, that the new state charges and michigan might impact or impede the special counsel's investigation? >> no. i think facts are facts and law is the law, and certainly, the violations of michigan law run parallel to violations at the federal level, if there are any, and certainly, any other states that saw similar issues occur leads to sort of federal conspiracy charges. so, i think both cases can proceed simultaneously. i think the bottom line is, we had a michigan law that was michigan's chief election chief law enforcement officer acted

accordingly, to ensure our michigan laws were followed. >> i mean, it's remarkable to me that some of the 16 people charged and included current and former state gop officials, republican national committee member, a city mayor, a school board member. i mean, what is he saying that these are the profiles of the people who believed not only claimed to believe the former president won the state of michigan, but were willing to lie and take this action? >> break the law and furtherance of that belief, which is not okay. it's not how democracy works and it's an extraordinary statement. it's such an important point to make that these were not just sort of random individuals. these were deep party insiders, but -- y to -- went into the basement of the party headquarters to get oath of secrecy and then signed those documents. so, the'lots of evidence here, if you read through allegations, to suggest that this wasore an just a ceremonial act. this was knowingly trying to break the law to overturn the will of the people. led by people at the center of the republican party.

>> you said that today's charges are, quote, the first in an ongoing effort to not just seek justice for the wrongs of the past, but to ensure they do not happen again. what are you doing to ensure that this does not happen again, in your state? >> one of the things are to see consequences because we need to be very clear going into the 2024 election cycle that any attempts to overturn a subsequent election result, people disagree with, though accurate, any attempts to try to intervene with the counting of violet -- block people from voting will be met with consequences and serious ones, at that. we are going to take every instance of actionable election interference seriously in the state of michigan. and so, we hope, and i expect, this will have a deterrent effect for any plans that are afoot. and it certainly gives us the ability to say, look, whatever

your planning, don't do it because it's not going to work and we will see consequences against you if an attempt is made. >> michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, thank you. >> thank you. >> breaking news now from ukraine, where the for the second night in a row, russia is launching a retaliatory airstrikes in the city of odessa, leaving ukrainian air defenses -- repelled russian attacks. the head of odessa's military administration is urging residents to stay away from windows and seek shelters, as alex marquardt joins us from that city, odessa. what have you been seeing and hearing tonight? >> well, anderson, as you know, this is the second night running of a major attack by russia on this city.

tonight was far bigger than when you and i spoke 24 hours ago. just an extraordinary display of firepower. i really can't overstate that. i really never seen anything quite like this. we saw tracers flying up into the sky from those anti aircraft guns. we saw glows in the distance. we saw impacts in the sky, appearing to cause explosions and those objects, whether they're shahed drones or

anything else being shot out of the sky. we do believe russia carried out a strike using those iranian-made kamikaze drones that are called shaheds as well as calvert cruise missiles. that's just what we can see. and what we could hear, anderson, was this insane cacophony of those anti aircraft guns firing into the sky of these massive explosions, presumably from the missiles either making an impact or being shot out of the sky. it's very hard to tell. i want to play a clip of what we saw earlier tonight, so that our viewers cannot just yet, but really hear what we experienced. [sound of artillery] [sirens] [sound of artillery] [sirens] [sound of artillery] >> and anderson, that incredible footage shot by our

photo journalist, scott mckinney, you know, when we spoke 24 hours ago, i could've told you how many blasts i heard. we could count how many impacts had landed. tonight, we lost count very quickly. it was just happening so fast, so much was happening over the course of about an hour, i would say. it has been over also for about an hour. it has been quiet. we are keeping eyes on the sky because really, things can change at any moment. those alarms could start up again, those tracers could fly back up into the sky. but anderson, this does appear to be a direct response, direct retaliation for that strike by ukraine on the church bridge that connects russian annexed crimea with the russian mainland. earlier today, the kremlin said that last night's attack was a direct retaliation. we have to assume that tonight 's is the same. russia had warned that there were still exploring options for a response. it appears that tonight is part of that response, whether it continues remains very much to be seen. this is an extremely fluid situation, anderson. as mentiearlier, there involving specia o specia o th, our ears connect us to the moments that matter. give them the nutrients they need with lipo. it's formulated with ingredients clinically shown to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and even hearing loss. never miss a moment with lipo flavonoid. this is how tosin lost 33 pounds on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a... huge impact on your relationship with it.

visit noom.com and start your trial today. ♪ pets are raw. raw curiosity. raw love. raw energy. no dog ever thought, “what if someone sees me like this?” no cat ever asked permission before taking up residence on your keyboard. raw is all pets are, and raw is all they need. raw attention. raw affection. and raw food. like what we make here at stella & chewy's.

>> well, we went -- to the former president faces charges for trying to overturn the 2020 election, there the 37 counties already facing. the special prosecutors of the case, the mar-a-lago classified documents case. you will recall highly sensitive documents were found in stacked boxes located in -- bathroom, the ballroom, the

bedroom, as mentioned earlier in the program, at a court hearing in florida today, federal judge aileen cannon, who is a trump appointee, signaled a willingness to push back the trial date, due to what she called voluminous discovery in the case. former president was at the hearing, his codefendant, was not a, his body man, was. so cnn's paula reid, who joins us now from the courthouse. so, talk about what happened. >> anderson, this was already going to be a significant hearing because this is the first time that trump's attorneys and special counsel prosecutors were going to appear before judge aileen cannon. she's a trump appointed judge will oversee this case, but then it also happened just hours after the former president revealed that he had received a target later in the special counsel's other probe. so, all eyes were on the judge and looking to see just how receptive she was going to be to this trump legal strategy, to delay, delay, delay. now, from what i saw in court

today, she's definitely open to delaying this trial at least until next year. she told prosecutors that their proposal of doing this in december is just too soon. she said, that was, quote, a compressed timeline and in cases like this, they take a lot longer. now, she's not necessarily leaving willing to leave it completely open-ended. she did tell defense attorneys that she at least made needs to know from them, all right, how long is it going to take you to go through all this evidence? and at least be able to propose your own trial date. so, again, she's definitely sympathetic to the former presidents argument that this just cannot go in december, which is a little good news for the former president today. >> the hearing was initially sought by prosecutors to go over how the classified documents involved would be handled, was progress made in that front? >> not much progress. certainly not as much as the . li they're concerned that as it takes longer and longer for the two sides to agree to stipulations about how to handle classified documents, that is the impact, anderson, of further delaying when this can go to trial. what was also notable about today's hearing is both sides were really focused on this idea of trump as a candidate

and how that should impact the timing here. prosecutors argue, look, he's no longer president. he should be treated as, quote, any other busy, important american. but as his attorney said, no, he is a candidate. that does make this different and in order to be fair, this has to be pushed until after the election. but anderson, the judge was not interested in this question at all. she said, look, we're not litigating that right now. instead, she's really focused on the mechanics. how long is it going to take the lawyers to do the work they need to do, to at least get some sort of trial date on the calendar? i thought that was noticeable. she's not really getting into the constitutional questions. she's just looking at the mechanics, which is probably a very safe place for a judge under this much scrutiny to be. >> paula reid, thank you. elie honig is back with me, joining us as well, former federal judge, nancy gertner, who is now a senior lecturer at harvard. judge corner, what do you think? is it a reasonable amount of time for both sides to prepare?

>> it's hard to say in the abstract. but one of the things that has to be done is the date has to be set. typically, what would've happened here is that the judge would say, okay, we will say december 11th. then as the months go on, and it could be clear that there is this impediment, this obstacle, then you would extend, it you would extend it by a month, than another month. the notion of trying now to predict whatever the issues are in advance is very, is really a fools errand in a way. she could keep december 11th and make it subject to delay when delay makes sense. one of the things i think is clear she won't do, it sounds like from the hearing today, is to say, an indefinite postponement. there isn't a defendant in the galaxy that wouldn't like an

indefinite postponement to a trial. in addition, one of the things i want to know is how fast trials typically go in florida. now, this case is not the usual case. but it should be very variations on the usual theme, as opposed to a completely different template. >> so, elie, not certainly not a good day for the special counsel's office. >> yeah, i think disappointing for doj if they want to get this thing to trial before the election. two reasons. first of all, as judge gardner said, they don't have a trial date right now. we have a floating trial date. trial dates only move one direction. they only get later and later. they never get moved up earlier. and i think the tables set now for trump's team to drag their feet and get this to the election. the other thing is, as paul reported, they didn't even get an agreement on how we are going to handle classified documents. until that is in place, you can't even finish discovery and motions. so, that's two losses. >> that was one of the criticisms of the special counsel had put forward in court documents, i think it was last week saying, look, they're only two lawyers that have ever been on the trump team that have even applied for the process to be, the process of getting -- those documents. >> yeah, trump's team is using that classify documents issue as a vehicle to drag their feet.

and they also took their time sort of registering and signing up to get their clearances. so, doj's right to call them out. they're using classified issue to try to slow the sound. >> judge corner, there was some rambling in the courtroom today about whether or not the case was politically motivated. the prosecutors of the doj pointed to the point of the special counsel in the enactment by the grand jury. do you think the indictment is strong enough on its own to prove there wasn't any political influence? >> the indictment was a

speaking indictment. the indictment on its own lays out what it seems to be an open and shut case. in other words, documents were found, they were illegitimately in his, you know, at mar-a-lago. he had no right to have them. you know, there are variations on that team. did he have a right to have them? did he know that they were there? what was his intent? but it seems to me the reason why the special counsel began with this is because this is by far the clearest case. i agree with what elie said a moment ago, which is that you would've thought that at the very least, what should've come out of this hearing was, here are the procedures to deal with classified documents. the special counsel went out of his way to turn over documents, non classified documents, at the outset in ways that prosecutors never do. to try to hasten this. so, there really is no excuse to not at least set a trial date and not at least sit down

the procedures for dealing with classified documents. >> so elie, now there has to be, what? another hearing in order to figure out how to handle classified documents and whether, i don't know if with the timing, would it be settled at that hearing as well? >> yeah, so there needs to be another hearing if i'm trump's lawyers, i'm just going to say no, i don't agree to anything. then the judge has set a motion briefing schedule. that can take as long as a month, six weeks for each of three rounds of briefing that have to go into emotions. and then presumably, there will be a trial date. the other problem, let's remember, we have a state trial in manhattan for the hush money payments already taking up the end of march. that will go into april. so, that's blocked off to. so, the options are narrowing here to get this thing in, realistically. >> all right, elie honig, judge nancy garner, thank you so much for. time coming up next, one of 2024 republican presidential candidate, will hurd. let's get his take on the former president mounting legal problems. the special counsel digging to efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we're all able to do things as a family. ♪ get started at betterforthem.com

>> back to our top story tonight. former president trump saying he's been told by special counsel jack smith he's a target of criminal investigations into efforts overturn the 2020 election. that could signal charges that are imminent for prosecutors could decide not to charge him. will hurd, who also is seeking the 2024 republican presidential nomination, wrote on twitter, losing to joe biden was so humiliating, donald trump that he was willing to let people die for his lies about a stolen election. that was what january 6th was about. heard is a former three term republican congressman from texas, a former cia officer, and he joins me now. thanks so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me on. >> -- >> and for quoting me right. >> well, some -- i think i got it right. what's your reaction to the news of the day? >> well, it's more of the same. it's more baggage, it's more

drama, it's more about him, is more about, you know him, not protecting the constitution. it is shocking and it prevents us from talking about the real issues of the day. we had, you know, poor migrants dying in and drowning in the rio grande river, right? we had what's going on in ukraine and instead, we are talking about things that happened in the past. >> and that's not going to change. i mean, there's no way that that's going to change between now and election day. i mean, today wasn't just this letter. it was the court case in florida, it was the, you know, fake electors in michigan. >> look, the other thing is, like, shocking to me is how some of the other candidates in this race have responded. news flash, if you are afraid of donald trump, then you're not ready to be president of the united states. i don't understand how some folks like governor desantis is more afraid of transgender kids and donald trump, and cinderella, instead of doing and talking about how we should be stopping were criminals like vladimir putin. instead, he wants to discriminate against our friends in the lgbtq community. i don't understand that, but here's what i -- when i go to places like new hampshire and talk about the things that people are worried about, they are worried about this nuclear war with china, they're worried about, how is a. i., is a robot going to take my job? they are worried about making sure kids have proper education,

regardless of their age or location. and that is a message that we are taking to places all across the country. that's what people want to see. >> when you hear speaker mccarthy today saying, coming out earlier this morning saying, well, joe biden saw donald trump's poll numbers go up, so he weaponize the department of justice to get the former president, is that a responsible thing for the speaker of the house to say? >> look, i don't think the president has the capability to do something like that. >> it doesn't work that way? >> it doesn't and let's be honest, if donald trump is the nominee, the republican nominee for president, he will lose to joe biden. we are giving four more years to joe biden. let's go through this little exercise. what independent or democrat voted for joe but even in 2020 and then all of a sudden woke up and was like, you know what? donald trump is my guy. it does not exist. and so, look, i think your earlier panel was talking about how the reason we have problems if because of primaries. only 23% of americans actually vote in primaries. if we had more people voting in primaries, we would have better options in november. that is why i am hoping people that are watching your show want to see someone that's not afraid of donald trump and who has a vision for the future. >> why is it that it's only you, chris christie, former governor isa hutchinson, who have been willing to be tough against the former president? >> everybody else is afraid of donald trump and why that is,

they have to make that decision. you have to ask them those questions. and we need to be putting forward a vision of the future. we need to be, we have a real opportunity. seven out of ten americans do not want joe biden to be president. this is a chance for the gop to take our brand, to take our message, to places that it's never gone before. >> is it too late, though, for the gop? >> no. >> wasn't the time to do that on january, the night of january 6th and january 7th? >> look, anybody who is watching your show that is sick and tired of the baggage of donald trump, there is one easy way to deal with this. beat him in a primary, right? look, all of these court cases are probably going to last longer than anybody expects. but the opportunity and there is opportunity to win. this is not, everybody says, oh, he has a commanding lead. look, anything is possible. if you work hard, the numbers exist for him to be beat. there are more people that dislike donald trump in the republican party than like him. and so, this is the opportunity. we had 26 weeks to pull this off. i hope some of your voters go to --

help me get $1 so i can meet those requirements to be on the main stage, so that we can have a real competition of ideas because, and you know this, we are faced with a number of generational defining challenges and if all we are doing is litigating stuff in the past and dealing with donald trump's baggage, we are not going to be able to make sure that the rest of the century stays the american century. >> you think will be able to get on the debate stage? >> we are working towards that, working towards that hard. people appreciate someone who's willing to fight a vladimir putin, not, you know, poor lgbtq teams, right? people are interested in helping someone that cares about, how do we deal with things like technology and artificial intelligence?

and how that's going to impact every single industry. so yeah, we are working hard. i think it's about 35 days until that debate, but everybody has to -- heard for america and $1, that's all you have to do. >> will hurd, thank you, i appreciated. the news continues, the source with kaitlan collins starts now. >> tonight, straight from the source. donald trump tells the world he's got another target letter from the special counsel, this time in the january six investigation, a sign that charges may be imminent. we'll see what he said. plus, for the first time suspects have been charged in a fake electors me