freedom. >> my goal is to make everybody proud of me, to live my life in the proper fashion. >> that was then. this is now. more than two years later, weinstein has just been charged in a multimillion-dollar fraud scheme. prosecutors say his crimes were brazen and sophisticated. he allegedly used a fake name to make false promises to investors about deals for baby form largs covid medical supplies, and first-aid kits that he claim were going to war zones in ukraine. according to the prosecutors, it seems he, quote, picked up right where he left off. thank you so much for joining us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow night. cnn prime time starts right now. hi! >> hey, i've got one of your blazers on. >> i love it. i'm letting you take that mantle tomorrow night. i'll be back tomorrow with a bright blazer. >> thank you very much. we have a jam-packed show for you tonight. the deadline is coming.

the one for donald trump to respond to the doj's target letter just a short time from now. we're all waiting to see if he in fact will respond today, according to the deadline. we're also learning one of his advisers abruptly left grand jury testimony today when he was asked about their interactions while trump was still in office. all that is ahead. but first, the politics and gnarlization of misinformation. that's a mouthful. it was also on full display in congress as republicans gave a platform to a noted conspiracy theorist as he's being called now. robert f. kennedy jr. he's also a democratic presidential hopeful and candidate. he testified during a hearing that was focused on the federal government and censorship. but then after going under oath, well, the train, it fell off the tracks promptly. cnn's fact checker senior reporter daniel is here. kennedy said today that he has

never voiced opposition over using vaccines. listen to this moment. >> i have never been antivax. i never told the public to avoid vaccination. >> and yet, that seems to obviously not be true, daniel. >> both the general claim and the specific claim there are totally untrue. he said he's never been antivax. we know he is one of america's most prominent antivaxxers. i'll get into that in a moment. he said he's never told the public to avoid vaccination. as an nbc news reporter, first noted on twitter, kennedy publicly said less thank not two years ago that he had personally confronted strangers, just random people he encountered, and told them not to get their babies vaccinated. listen to what he said on a 2021 podcast. >> our job is to resist and talk to everybody. if you're walking down the

street, and i do this now myself, i see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby and i say to them, do not get them vaccinated. you hear that from me, if he hears it from ten other people, maybe he won't do it. maybe he will save that child. >> of course, there is a whole lot more. for years, kennedy has been the most famous promoter of the debunked notion that there was a link between childhood vaccines and autism. he has spread all manner of info. he even asserted that the 1918 spanish flu pandemic was not a in a but caused by vaccine research. of course, it wasn't. it was a influ. this is a very famous antivaxxer under oath trying to convince people that he's not an antivaxxer. >> the information was readily available. it blows the mind to figure out

how he didn't think that would be followed up on. also, just before that exchange that we just saw, rfk jr. said, quoting him here, he's never uttered a phrase that was either racist or antisemitic. unquote. what are you finding? is that true and does it hold up? >> i don't think it is up to me as a fact checker to decide what is racist or antisemitic. i can say that he's made comments that jewish groups and asian groups have described as hateful. he recently said that covid-19 was to attack. that they said every aspect of his comments reflect some of the most abhorrent antisemitic conspiracy theories throughout history and contribute to today's dangerous rise of antisemitism. groups fighting antiasian hate described this nonsense as hateful and offensive. and this was not his first remark to be forcefully denounced by jewish groups.

last year, kennedy made a truly ludicrous comparison to the holocaust while making some bizarre comments about what he claims was a risk to americans and everything from vaccine passports to 5g to low orbit satellites. this is what he said. >> even in hitler germany, you could cross the alps into switzerland. you could hide in an attic like anne frank did. >> anne frank was killed, of course. she was one of 6 million jews killed by the nazis. he apologized later that week but he seemed to deny under oath that he had made the comments at all. i don't know what to tell you. >> thank you for the fact checking. so illuminating. joining me now, daily beast columnist matt lewis, author of the brand new book, it is called filthy rich politicians. also, karen finney, cnn contributor sophia nelson, a

former house republican investigative committee council, and go the former chief of homeland security and tense for washington, d.c. well, all your reputations precede you. i love that you're here today. the fact that he was there at all has made many democrats say, what are republicans thinking? they tried to go into executive session. they didn't want him to come in the first place because of these facts. yet he's polling still very high. not close, close to biden but as a democratic hopeful, it's there. >> those numbers have been relatively consistent and i do think a lot of that is his name. and he knows it. if he wasn't a kennedy, he wouldn't have even been invited to come to the hearing today. so let's be very clear about that. i do want to say, i'm going to say it to take a step back. you know, covid should never have been politicized ever, ever, ever period, full stop. but that's the environment that we live in. right?

>> and we're still in. >> people are still dying from covid. i think it is important to remember that. and part of what is so outrageous about the comments that he made. they're just dangerous. so for the republicans to provide a platform for someone to be able to promote conspiracy, he lied, essentially, under oath, by saying he never said it. i consider it a lie, i should say it that way. given that we have the proof he has said it. the republicans knew exactly what would happen. they knew that's how he would use this platform. and frankly, there was a little conspiracy between them. because rfk jr. knew exactly what the game was. >> this was a hearing that was supposed to be about censorship and that was what he was there for. the idea, it started out, jim jordan with a request to have the administration tweet taken down about his thoughts surrounding this very issue. he was kind of saying, look, if you censor me now, you're proving the point. did they? >> i do think, stepping back

even further, i do think that this, there is a larger debate that is important. i think republicans are obviously playing politics. they're trying to score points. but i think there's a deep, deep debate and attention taken with misinformation and censorship. and think of it this way. on one hand, misinformation can be incredibly dangerous. people can die because of it if they don't get vaccinated. and it's so much easier to spread misinformation because of social media. there are no get a keepers. on the other hand, we should have a media that welcomes contrarian opinions. the lab leak. we don't know if the lab leak was extra. it's unclear. but tom cotton, a republican senator, was accused of basically being a conspiracy theorist when he posed that theory. so i think there's attention here that we'll have to grapple with probably for decades

because we're in a brave new world. >> i think though, i want to pick up on what daniel has said. i was at auschwitz two weeks ago. these words aren't innocuous. it is antisemitic and when you blame or not blame some people for getting covid or not getting covid, it may not mean anything to rfk jr. but there are people who are very sick and very demented online. at a time when we have the highest rate of antiasian crime, crime against those of the jewish faith, those words mean something to some people. so i know there's tension taken with what you can say. the first amendment which you can say. these are hateful words and to give him a platform. >> there's politics hear. the republicans are weaponizing

rfk jr. against president biden. why? if you look at the poll numbers, we know that this house of wentives run by kevin mccarthy, these republicans are very beholden to donald trump. they're in his camp. there can be no question. if they can weaken joseph biden a little bit by using rcmp fk jr., that amazing name, the name that carries a lot of weight with a lot of people. particularly over 60 years of age no matter how wacky he may be or appear, i think it is about raw politics. can we weaken biden? biden is still up in all the polls. >> he invoked his golf course, the late president, and his father. knowing that, talking about the idea you're calling me, these conspiracy theorists, you're telling me i'm not a true democrat either. and i'm adhering to things i believe in. do you even doubt that he truly is running truly on a democratic ticket? or is he a kind of red herring? >> i think just to pick up on

what sophia said. the republicans were using him to legitimize a process that has been pretty flawed, i think it is fair to say. >> which process do you mean? >> this weaponization committee. at the same time, he was using them, too. he knew exactly what that platform would afford him. and he knows that in terms of this issue about trying the weaken president biden, he's participating in that. i think, i suspect he believes that he is a democrat. i think it is very telling that his whole family, most of his family has actually denounced what he's been saying -- >> his wife! she distanced herself. >> he's saying but others in the kennedy family and part of that legacy have really taken great pains to distance themselves. and i think that should say something to us. the look. as you and i discussed, i think as democrats, we have to take it seriously. he certainly could create chaos in the democratic primary.

so we take it seriously at the same time, i think in a real match-up, i don't think he would win more than a few percentage points. once people are clear about what he's actually doing. >> i wonder about the trend. donald trump was the first mover advantage. he shows up being this very different kind of politician and basically, i think, hijacks the republican party. now, but the democrats though, they really have their leaders. like nancy pelosi has the house in lynn. and they nominate joe biden, this sort of main stream kind of centrist democrat. and now we're seeing, maybe it is a lagging indicator. not just robert kennedy jr. but there are other potential democrats now running. >> an indicator of what? this is not the match-up people want to see? >> that, but i think we have opened this can of worms where kind of contrarian eccentric

candidates are running. it was donald trump first in the republican party. now we're satisfying it in the democratic party. i don't know if it is traction against joe biden. >> that's the point i was going to make before the plug for your back. politicians who get rich. this is a good way for rfk jr. to not just wreak havoc but to make a whole lot, not that he might need a lot more money but this pays. misinformation and disinformation, it pays. it makes you famous all over the globe. it is a stunning place we're in and it's not good. >> yeah. he's he's tapping into something we've seen in the last decade. the degradation of truth. when the average person doesn't know up and down. if you believe in misinformation, conspiracy theories, you're not listening to this conversation. you're getting your news from the darkest deepest parts of the web, a outlets that are fading you what you want to hear. >> we're the swamp.

>> who wouldn't want to watch laura coates? >> you're telling the truth. >> they don't want to hear that. >> everyone, stay with me right hear. we are less than two hours away from the dead lane for donald trump to respond to jack smith's letter. will he? one of his advisers left the grand jury room abruptly today. i'll tell you why. plus a new theory on how the gilgo beach suspect left guard his victims. and we're learning what was taken in the murder of tupac shakur's murder and whose home was searched. i was told my small business wouldn't qualify for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront t cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to o go. yeah, i think i'll get a second d opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. no.

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that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com all right, everyone. just about 90 minutes from now, the deadline is up for donald trump's legal counsel to respond to jack smith's target letter. the one where he asked them, well, do you plan on coming in to testify for a grand jury investigation? that's not actually how he phrased it. but spoiler alert, i wouldn't hold my breath too long. it's unlikely that he will choose to appear before a grand jury. but stranger things have indeed happened. tonight, we're learning that one of his advisers appeared before the grand jury today and when that adviser was asked about his interactions with trump while trump was still in office, he left to seek counsel from his lawyer.

we're back at the table right now. first of all, the clock is ticking. we know that he's been asked in this letter, an invitation to appear before the grand jury. you're not required to give out a letter but they have. they put the country on notice. do you think that there is any world where donald trump says, all right, put me in, coach. i'll testify. >> no. >> she said no. >> what he will do is he will put it out there. he will put whatever testimony we don't want to hear out on truth social media. he will fundraise off it and make a lot of money off it. >> the fundraising is so important. first of all, right now, as long as jack smith is not saying anything, trump can milk it. he can tell his story. he can elongate this process. look at the number. the spikes he gets from being

charged, from being arraigned. this is on no one's bingo card until the last several years. but the fact of e matter is, there is now an even me a focus on fundraising, and what it means for the people who are voting. they're not fickle in the same respect maybe. they are looking at very different things. and they're focusing on him being a kind of champion for those who support him. >> definitely. i think that we're talking about it in the last segment. i think a lot of the things that happen in politics follow the money. whether it is people saying irresponsible things, follow the money. and then the politicians, in my book, filthy rich politicians, will find a way to take some of the money and put it in their personal pocket as well. that's the other side. money helps you win elections and take power. but more and more, you know, first of all, it's rich people running for office. the average member of congress is 12 times richer than the average american household.

then once people get elected. insider trading, opening a hotel in washington, d.c. -- >> as an example. >> a son-in-law who takes $2 billion from saudis. >> they find a way to funnel the money back into their pockets. it is a very dirty, swampy, dare i say, existence. >> it also incentivizes people to stay. what draws you there, why you want to stay, maybe the moral compass starts to go in a different direction. you've been sounding the alarms for a long time. even about january 6th, obviously. you were talking about this. you were warning people. what does it say to you that the fundraising is there. that this could happen and being charged, or even the prospect of being charged, and it makes the money go up. >> he told us this, right? 2016, he can shoot someone in the middle of manhattan and people love him.

we should believe him. there is a segment of the population that donald trump could do no wrong for. those are the individuals that support him, that stand by him, that will help fundraise for him. and i'm not a political guru. i'm a homeland security person. but there is obviously a portion of those individuals that are radicalized and they're not going to be deradicalized. not by going to jail for january 6th. we saw one of them who was prosecuted for going to january 6th and fighting, circling obama's house a couple weeks ago. these folks are at it. they won't give up. >> i might change it to say guru. we often hear president biden say the comment, judge me against the alternative. that's his commentary. there was a moment today where lisa murkowski was asked about the prospects of a rematch between biden and trump, even in spite of all of these conversations. listen to what she had to say.

>> would you support him if he decided to run? >> i'll tell you. if it is a match-up between biden and trump, i know exactly where i would go. i would go with, i would go with joe manchin. i am one who doesn't like to use my vote for the lesser of evils. i want to be proactive in who i think could do the job. i think manchin could do the job. will our system allow for that? that i don't know. >> are you surprised? >> so joe manchin is not running, we should say that. from the great state of west virginia. that answer, that was such a political answer. and it ties into what we were talking about on the fundraising on the trump side. that radicalized base that you're talking about. they have a stranglehold on the republican party. that no one in the republican

party has had the courage to stand up to, with any force. that answer from lisa murkowski was a political congratulations. you can almost see it in her head of, i don't want to say anything bad about trump. i need those trumpy voters to get reelected. and i don't want to say joe biden, so i'll just split the baby and say somebody who is not actually even running and who is, would potentially be running on a third party ticket that we don't even know what they stand for. >> well, in new hampshire, a no label conversation. chris christie who has been -- >> they don't count. >> why not? >> they're considered rinos. but lisa murkowski is an independent. she had to do the write-in and all that stuff. she's definitely a renegade. susan collins sometimes. the part of conversation that you didn't hear, that we didn't play, was where she talked about

the republicans in the caucus who were very turned off and are saying, they have no courage to say the publicly but they're i don't know how much longer i can be in this party. i think it's radicalized. i think it's gone in a direction i'm no longer comfortable with. it will be interesting to see joe manchin. anyway. >> where do they go next? is it that an independent runs. >> it is very difficult for an independent to win, as we know, in our system the way it is now. a lot of people are trying. a lot of movements but none of them have caught on. rank choice voting is something we think may help in the process but right now it is really hard for a third party to get above what. ross perot got what? 19%? that's the best we've seen since teddy roosevelt. >> let's not forget barry johnson and joe stein who gave us three states. that's how hillary clinton lost. and will let's talk going ralph

nader in 2000. i think part of the question is why won't republican leaders stand up? >> i don't know. the reason that children, middle school children in the state of florida are going to be taught that black people actually, there were some personal benefits to slavery for black people because of this very radicalized faction of the republican party. ron desantis trying the play to with his jenld as governor. >> we're going there next with what's happening in florida. just to bring it back to your book which is incredible. "filthy rich politicians." there is no money in all of a sudden becoming independent, i would suspect. >> as a republican, that's totally right. everyone kind of can tell. it's a free market. everyone takes their business to

the popular restaurant or whatever. it's very clear if you want to get in the republican party the way you play the game. the democratic party has a game, too. i would say rate now it's not as toxic. >> we'll talk more about this. thank you all. there's also now a chilling development tonight in the gilgo beach serial killings involving where the suspect likely committed these heinous acts. plus, it's now clear whose house was searched in the cold case of tupac shakur's murder and what was found, next. ♪ this time we traded in n a car and nexext thing i know, our new car was here and our trade-in was gone. ta-da. - [narrator] buy your car with carvana today. #1 isn't a status earned overnight. it's earned in every wash, and re-earned every day.

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there is a disturbing development tonight in the gilgo beach murders. a source telling cnn, investigators are operating on a theory that the suspected serial killer murdered the women inside of his own home. we're told the disappearances happened during time when his wife and his family were out of town. it suggests that he may have lured victims to his home for dates of some kind with these very women. that would have given rex hourman access to the crime scene materials. our reporter has been all over this story. take a listen. >> he's laying on his bunk. he's been extremely quiet. not really talkative to staff. >> reporter: the accused serial killer rex heuermann alone and under suicide watch behind bars as the investigation into his alleged killings expands.

>> i think in the coming days, as we continue to gather evidence, anything is possible. >> reporter: his wife of more than 27 years now filing for divorce. in a statement, her attorney said the sense you have the nature of her husband's arrest is taking an emotional toll on the immediate and extended family. >> if you ask me, i don't believe that they knew about this double life that he was living. >> reporter: a week after his arrest, the investigation spans three states. authorities are searching not only his long island home but also his office and nearby storage facilities. two las vegas condos he purchased, and in south carolina, where he owns land. sources tell cnn, their agents towed his truck which they say connects him to one of three murders he's charged with exiting more than a decade ago. authorities are combing through evidence. >> so we're looking for potential trophies, souvenirs,

jewelry, anything that can be attached to the four women or other women that he might have been involved with. >> several departments are reviewing cold cases to see if heuermann is connected. this as more women are coming forward saying they, too, were solicited by him. >> i had a really bad feeling. my gut was telling me i needed to get away from him. >> reporter: hourman's logs. how he used burn every phones to taunt victims' families and research this case as reasonly as last month. >> it tells me that he was concerned, trying to take a look at where do we stand as an investigative team? do we have someone that we may be looking at? i'm sure that would have scared him. >> reporter: the new york city architect has pleaded not guilty. a friend of one of the victims

believes police got it right. >> it made me mad. he's such a big monster. >> reporter: authorities say after heuermann's arrest, all he did was ask for an attorney. he was very quiet. the ride with authorities from manhattan to the jail where he was taken, about an hour and a half. he's been very quiet in his cell as well. not accepting any visitors at all. a very stark difference from what his attorney said happened after he was presented with the charges in the case where he said he was distraught. cnn, new york. >> unbelievable to think about that case and how it has now been reopened. the question now, are we closer to finding out who killed tupac shakur? there are new details tonight on the search warrant executed this week in nevada, of all places. property records show it belonged to the wife of down a

keith davis. we're told items that were seized include a copy of his memoir about gang life. i want to bring in c nmpnn's reporter sara sidner. last week, authorities searched the home. what have they found? >> this is the search warrant. i printed it out so you can see what it looks like. what it details is a lot of electronics, computers, hard drives that have been taken from that home. as well as a couple of other things that sort of pique your interest. one is a vibe magazine that has tupac on the cover. there were quite a few, by the way. there was a copy of a become called compton street legends and a few other things like black tubes containing photographs, and a documentary.

so it's interesting to look through what is in here. the thing that stood out the most is there is a name in this. many of these items belonging to him. the name is duane keith davis. he has said in the time when all this happened in september of 1996, that he witnessed tupac's murder and he is the uncle of orlando anderson who was initially a main suspect in the case, but who said he did not do it and he was never charged. it's really interesting to note that initially, he said that he witnessed this. but all these years later, 27 years later, since the murder of tupac, there is still no suspect that has been named. but now we're seeing the police have certainly not closed this case. >> i can't believe this, in 27 years, first of all. thinking about when is he was killed.

a few months later, the timing of all of this. all the conspiracies that have circulated. all the interest in this so far. i want to go back to around that time. back in 998, a couple years after he was killed. there was an interview with duane d davis, known as keffe d. >> i was in the front seat. i could see my friend. >> did he see you? he looked right at you? >> you said the shots came from the back. orlando, who shot tupac? >> just came from the back seat. >> what can you tell us about this guy, duane davis and what

he knows, just watching that? >> he said he witnessed it. he clearly was not going to name someone if he did see that person. but he is also the uncle of the person who was the main suspect for a whale and who was never charged and not admitted to doing this in any way shape or form. on that day, three hours before tupac was murdered, he was in a fight inside the mgm grand. and there's videotape of that fight and the person he was fighting with ends up on the ground. he's kicking him. orlando, which is the nephew of keffe d. so there are a lot of connections here. and police have not stopped their search for tupac's murder. >> decades later. thank you so much. and please, be sure to watch sara sidner in the next hour. she has an interview.

that will be live, everyone, at 11:30 p.m. tonight. so stay tuned for sara sidner and that particular interview as well. everyone, schools in florida, you heard a little earlier in the show, they want to teach kids that slavery has some personal benefits. i'll speak with a teacher there, next. plus, on the eve of the bar barbie-oppenheimer showing. >> was the u.s. right or wrong to drop the bomb on hiroshima? let me be direct: you're doing tv wrong! you thought that other tv provider was good enough. now what?... you'll talk? you call this “watcng sports,” do you? ♪

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well, florida public schools now have a new set of standards when it come to teaching black history. the state board of education unanimously approving the controversial new curriculum that, by the way, includes a

lesson that teaches that slavery offered a personal benefit. we're talking about a benefit to the enslaved people. critics are now slamming the new standards as a big step backward. i want to bring in carol cleaver, a middle school teacher in florida who has a masters degree in african american studies. thank you for being with us tonight. this is for many people, unbelievable to think there would be a part of instruction that those who have been enslaved personally benefitted from it. what is this about? is that really what is being taught or will be taught? >> well, it's been a strand that was added on to our current standards adopted yesterday by the state board of education. and so i assume that yes, that is what they would like us to teach. that my problem with it, of course, is that the skills are

not inherently learned during slavery. slavery is not to be credited for their skills, of course. but it seems like that's what we're expected to impart to the children. >> so just so we're clear. when you talking about personal benefit, this is part of it. this is a document from the florida department of education website. it says that instruction includes how slaves developed skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. how do you expect to be able to teach this, a, with a straight face. and looking at students who are expected to believe this. and respect you in the end. >> right. well, i'm going to be honest and say i don't think that we will be able to teach that. it just isn't true. the truth is really that enslaved people had their labor

exploited and they were being held captive. there was nothing benefitting them from their labor. all people, of course, amass a set of schools during their lifetime but to suggest that these skills are especially developed because they were enslaved is particularly insulting. especially to the african american kids that i have in my class right now. >> and to anyone frankly who would want to be a student of actual history. but i wonder if you refuse to teach it, will you be punished? do you know what the consequence might be? have they laid that out? >> well, that's the particularly nefarious thing here. it hasn't been laid specifically out. we've been told that our licenses could be threatened if we don't follow the exact letter of the standards. if we're caught teaching things that are not explicitly stated.

if we have books on our shelves that anyone disagrees with us having on the shelves. so right now, there is certainly a culture of fear in florida classrooms where teachers are afraid if they step out of line a little bit, not just teachers but administrators. if they step out of line just a little bit, that the consequences could be losing your professional license. it's going to be difficult to know exactly how to move forward. >> this all comes in this mind-boggling concept to me. that you're not supposed to teach history if it could make somebody feel badly about what has happened. that's just a mind-boggling concept to me that doesn't seem to be in line with reality of how you teach any subject that is difficult and requires you to be a part of the global world at some point. carol cleaver, thank you for being here.

i don't know if i should wish you luck or courage or frankly, just the ability that maybe saner minds will prevail in what and how we teach. >> i'll just keep teaching with fidelity. i'll keep teaching the truth to these children and respecting them the best we can. >> how radical in 2023. thank you so much for being here. >> absolutely. thank you. well, now for a question that really looks at history and what would you do? the question is was the united states right or wrong to have dropped the bomb on hiroshima? chris wallace asked that question. (mom) the moment i i loved our subaru outback most...

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at thefarmersdog.com/realfood as russia's war carries on and the world seems to become more unstable and more unpredictable, the topic of nuclear weapons is once again creeping back into conversations. and hollywood is adding fuel to those years with this week's release of oppenheimer, about the american scientist behind the atomic bomb. chris wallace is back with me now. chris, you spoke with one of the film stars, matt damon. take a listen. >> your latest movie is just out, oppenheimer, about the scientist to lead the effort to create the first atomic bomb. you play general leslie groves, who is the military leader of the manhattan project. why did you want to play this

role? >> the director, chris nolin, is why the best directors to ever live. he makes extraordinary movies. it plays like a thriller, like you're on the edge of your seat the entire time. >> anyone who deals with the suspect, and during the movie, i think ends up having to deal with a central question. was the u.s. right or wrong to drop the bomb on hiroshima? where do you come down on that? >> it's an impossible question. i remember talking to ban our flicks grandfather who is a marine and he said, when we heard about the bomb drop, we cheered. and he said, this is 50 years later that he's telling me, i live with the fact that -- but this is what they were telling us. that they're going to fight to the last man, and you covered in your book, between 250,000 and million. >> you read my book. >> which we should say is

called 1945, and it's available on amazon. >> not to be shamelessly plugging a book, it is great. what would you have done? >> i probably would have had a good head of gray hair. presidents hairs go white. it's funny because when you look at it you think there is really one choice to make, and yet you look at the people who made that choice. >> i don't think that groves ever lost a night of sleep about it, but oppenheimer and a lot of the other scientists, once they went through the tests they started going oh my god. it was like a shock wave going through them. >> that is so fascinating to think about, what a difficult question and you can see the way that this movie might be bringing out the conundrum and grappling with that.

but think about the real world implications, when we look at what we have done as a human race in our military endeavors and beyond. the hindsight is unbelievable. >> yeah, look, one of the things that comes out in the real story, and i've also seen the movie oppenheimer, is the technology leads us. in the end we cannot put the genie back in the bottle. when it became possible in the run up to and then during world war ii to split at the adam, it was going to happen. and there was an understanding that -- originally roosevelt was doing it because there's a lot of talk that they're not seas were trying to create, and a lot of the top scientists in germany, or trying to create an atom bomb. in nuclear weapon. and the u.s. certainly did not want hitler and they're not seized to get to it before him did. but you get to this deep political and moral question. on one hand we're going to drop

the bomb on the city in tens of thousands of innocence civilians are gonna be killed. on the other hand, if you don't drop the bomb, you are going to invade and probably more people are going to die and the war would go on for a year and a house. it's one of the great political and moral conundrums of our time. >> chris wallace, it is terrifying to think about how much this resonates today. but, also, i am fascinated that matt damon read your book. i love it, chris wallace. >> it was a shameless plug there, i'm embarrassed about that. >> that is what you should do, chris wallace. i love it all. you can see more of chris's interview with matt damon this friday on who's talking to chris wallace. you also talk to actor laura linney, that is this friday at ten pm. images and videos. social media, fine-tuned to suck them in. and steal them away. alone you can't stop it.

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- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. thank you all so much for joining us tonight on cnn prime time, i'm laura coates. cnn tonight starts right now with the fabulous sara sidner. hey sarah. >> a girl, good to see. you >> have a great one, looking forward to your interview. >> me too, i can't wait to share that with everyone. thank you, l.