so i'm not surprised at all to see a backlash by certainly by conservatives, actually, you, know there might be more backlash coming as more people see the movie. but i do think most people understand that it's a movie. and it's meant to be fun, and it's meant to be entertaining. and that is really how most people are going to see it and break that fits, and barbie dream houses, and all of that. but, you know, any excuse to have an opportunity -- some, you know, what do your, point something we just want to go to the movie and in pink and have a little. fun sharon waxman, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> and thank you for joining me tonight on cnn prime time, i'm abby philip, and cnn tonight starts right now with sara sidon -- hey, sarah. >> we become an average nation, i think, that was a really good -- >> we are both just gonna be in our pink, it's okay, it's all good. have a good show. >> thank you.

>> good evening to you, i am sara sidner, welcome to cnn tonight. the grand jury investigating donald trump and his allies were -- efforts to up and joe biden's election victory, it's expected to meet again tomorrow -- cnn exclusively learning prosecutors are asking witnesses about a never forward oval office meeting in february 2022. what donald trump praised election security protections. then just a few weeks later started spreading all this voter fraud conspiracy theory. what else has jack smith learned? and will it lead to trump's third indictment? that is tomorrow's news, tonight. also ahead for you, a momentous time in u.s. history, finally getting its due, president joe biden expected to sign a proclamation tomorrow establishing a national monument honoring emmett till and his mother maybe till-mobley, on what would have been emmitt's 82nd birthday. till was kidnapped, tortured,

and murdered at the age of 14, in 1955. his death shocked america, it also helped fuel the civil rights movement. when his mother insisted on an open casket funeral so that everyone would know what hatred and racism can do. tonight, i will talk to emmett till's cousin about what all this means for the till family. also, driving while black. unarmed black truck driver pulled over and attacked by a police dog even though he had his hands up and was surrendering. the whole disturbing episode was caught on camera and i want to warn you that the video is very disturbing. and horrible to watch. do not release the dog with his hands up, do not release the dog with his hands of.

-- we'll have much more on that disturbing video and what happened there head, but let's begin with tomorrow's news tonight. the grand jury in the special counsel jack smith's investigation of efforts to overturn the 2020 election is expected to meet tomorrow. as we are learning about that oval office meeting with donald trump praised american election security. here to discuss all of this, former trump white house lawyer jim schultz, and cnn legal analyst karen freeman. agnifilo -- i knew i was gonna mess that, up girl, i'm sorry. gia, cnn's exclusive reporting, we just talked about it, that trump was praising the election security in that oval office meeting. even suggesting the fbi and the department of homeland security hold a press conference taking credit for. what can prosecutors do with this? or glean from this? as later on, a few weeks later, he said that it was a fraudulent election, and someone stole it from him. >> look, they are looking for every shred of evidence that

can establish that donald trump truly believed that this was a fair election, and that his claims that the election were stolen or bogus. so of course they are gonna look at meetings that he had prior to the election. meetings that he had after the election. claims that he made, things that people told him specifically about fairness of the election. documents that he may have seen relative to other institutes and lawsuits. that went on as it relates to the election -- looking for every shower riddance that kid show that he either thought in his mind that that election was stolen, or, and that he was perhaps making of the fact that the election was, making up the fact that the election was stolen. >> okay. so they are looking at all of these, efforts, karen trump did criticize election security, of course in the months that followed, and i want people to listen to what he said, some of what he said. >> i don't want to see a crooked election, this election will be the most rigged election in history. they know it's going to be

fraudulent, it's gonna be fraud all over the place. >> i have been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are disaster. >> all, right so that was in september, 2024, before the election happened, it was this whole idea that he was sort of getting people to the point where they thought, oh, this is rigged. before it even happened. and then after, of course, he went on and off. can trump just change his mind? can prosecutors say, okay, well he believed this then, now he believes this. but can they argue in the defense, a, he changed his mind and he learned something, and now he actually believes that he lost, i didn't lose. >> at the end of the day, whether he believed it or not, it's gonna be helpful information, but even if he did believe in his mind that he won, despite all of the evidence that i'm sure jack smith will show, that is to the contrary. even if he says that he did believe it, it is still not giving him the right to

interfere with the election, to disenfranchise 80 something million voters who cast a ballot valid vote for joe biden. and trump just didn't like the result. and so he doesn't have a right. i mean, that is the very foundation of our democracy. right? you win or you lose and you accept the consequences of that. and so what he believed at the end of the day, i think jack smith is going to be able to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no way that he could have believed it. but i think that it also doesn't give him a right to interfere with the election. >> no matter what it, is he believed. jim, i want to go with, we are learning that the special counsel got thousands of documents turned over by trump ally and former new york police commissioner bernie quranic, this is relayed to efforts with rudy giuliani to try to find voter fraud. and remember really coming out and sort of talking about that.

what do you think jack smith is zeroing in on in that part of the case? >> look, if you recall, they were doing investigations to try to bring a lawsuit, in particular, states states like pennsylvania, my home state, to overturn and tempt to overturn the outcome of the election based on voter fraud. that information, the results of those investigations, you know, they resulted on the cases getting tossed out almost immediately, for lack of any evidence, right? so that is evidence that they could use against the. former president. in their case that he was attempting to overthrow, that, one he wanted to overturn the outcome of the ballot election. two, that he knew he was up to. >> that'll make sense, i have a question, there are several people that we expect to testify. including bernie kerik. but he's gonna be testifying for the grand jury as we understand it. and in a month, like, next

month. does that mean we are really far away from actually seeing whether or not donald trump is indicted? can you continue to do this after indicting him, or no? . >> so we don't exactly know what is happening, because everything that happens in a grand jury by law is secret. but yes, the answer is yes. we don't know if jack smith is going to bring a sweeping indictment or a very limited indictment. you know, this could be an indictment of many defendants, including people like mark meadows, rudy giuliani, john eastman, strict -- there are lot of people who were part of this conspiracy and jack smith might be bringing this multi defendant sweeping indictment, or he might do a very limited indictment, which is donald trump and the three crimes that were listed in the target letter, we just don't know. but we do know that there are multiple investigations going on, and that this is the special grand jury that is going to continue past tomorrow. so it is possible that there could be a little bit of a discreet indictment of donald trump for the conduct of january 6th

-- and continuing investigations in the grand jury for other individuals, other crimes, other potential defendants, even potentially other charges against donald trump and potentially even a superseding indictments. so, yes that's good, that doesn't mean that we have to wait for an indictment. >> interesting, that it can continue to go along, because you don't know how far they are going and whether they will charge one case and then another. at a bunch of other people. we know that donald trump has gotten character, jim. we know that rudy giuliani after this point up to this point has said that he has not gotten a target letter. and nobody else has come forward saying that they have got a target. later what does that tell you? >> look, i think what it tells me is that they were putting former president on notice, right? they were zeroing in on him in this particular case. we don't know if anyone else is receiving a target letter, it might not be in their interest to tell that they have received

popular. those folks may be cooperating. so there is a lot of things that we don't know, because of the secrecy of the grand jury. and i think it's entirely plausible that other people may have received that. i would be really surprised that they would bring, that they would, that jack smith would bring an indictment that didn't have all the facts locked down as it relates to the former president. we saw the way that he brought the last indictment, it was a very compelling indictment. specific facts. the former president caught on tape. those are the kinds of things that you need in order to bring a case like this against a former sitting president. >> this is, you know, it could be huge, and if it is a very big sort of all encompassing case, this could take a really long time to try. could it not? >> yes, absolutely. and it probably would not happen before the election, if this is the big sweeping huge case of many defendants. i, mean there is many reasons i

could get a -- motions that are, made any defendant has their own martian that they want >> to make >> , some issues apply to one another >>'s >>, so i think if the goal is to have a trial before the election, i think we might see a limited, a very discrete limited case coming down. >> they bring charges after that, but they do is very sort of limited case and say oh, the grand jury also found this, this, and this. is unusual? >> it just depends, right? it just depends, yes, you could, you could bring multiple indictments of multiple, you know, the same conduct and the same incident should probably be brought together. but if there are other incidents that they look at that could be brought separately, or other defendants. >> karen? jim? thank you both so much for your analysis here. it is very interesting as tomorrow the grand jury meets again. okay, let's talk about all of this with senior political commentator scott jennings. and mark mckenna, former

adviser to george w. bush and john mccain. mark, i am minister with you. he was aware that great had, and i love to see it, the grand jury is expected to meet tomorrow as i mentioned. howdy. it has been eight days i think since donald trump got his target letter from the special counsel. and trump's closest rivals are sort of tiptoeing around, they are not going for the jugular, except for with the exception of chris christie. how does this help them in the primaries? >> it doesn't, they are trying to have it both ways, and it just never works. and, but they're afraid of turning off trump's face, which unfortunately -- it is a significant part of their primary voters. so their fear is that they are gonna turn off the voters that can elect them in the primary. so there are them to say do damage if they don't, but i just think that ultimately what may happen is that as strong as he is, a lot of this is just

about sort of defending their guy. as soon as we see enough public polling overtime, and there is a 34th indictment, they are gonna start to see that this guy is not gonna win a general election. that he is gonna be a loser as the nominee. and i think that ultimately that that could affect his numbers going into iowa. >> scott, do you agree? >> yeah, i do, actually, i think what the other candidates are hoping for, frankly, and i don't know hope is not a strategy, but i think they are hoping for, is that eventually the weight of all of this just tracks trump down to mark's point, to the point where voters say, look, i love, the guy i love everything, he didn't jump to do it again because he is so damaged he can't win. and so they want to put themselves in a position to be able to pick up the pieces. and i think by not alienating trump's orders today, they might be able to do that. but this is a total, you know, bank shot kind of strategy, a lot of hope and prayers that things fall your way. and you don't really have control over. it one issue i think, plaguing the campaigns. if they don't know anything. i, mean we know what is

reported, we know that indictments may come at sometime. but you are not seeing charges. we don't know the evidence. and you remember all the documents case. some campaigns got out there and got ahead of it and commented on it >> and then the evidence came out of the indictment. and then we had to rollback with the issue and what was said, advice to campaign will be to maybe keep your powder as dry as possible until you see what is in there because one thing about our reporting tonight is that we didn't know about this meeting and it makes me wonder what else does jacks mitt no that we have not? and if you are running a presidential campaign, you don't want to comment on something before you about really seen what the public's gonna see. >> i want to mention something that donald trump has posted on truth social, last night he lashed out once again writing we are in the middle of a major political campaign for president of the united states. have they looked at recent poll numbers? why didn't they bring these ridilous charges years before? why did they wait to bring them now? virtually unheard of scenario, prosecutorial mix conduct, election interference, we've seen this before.

what do you think about? this is this just him doing the thing he always does which is fight back no matter what the, what is going, on the matter with the other events is against him. >>, listen this is the first time that i have heard anybody including donald trump suggests that this has been slow moved. i, mean for god's sake, we have a january six commission, we have four different prosecutors in the state federal jurisdictions. going -- that's a very unique point of view that donald trump has just laid out, and it's because of polling that it's affecting the timing on all of this, in a way that, you know, i mean, i would just say that he prior to this, criticism has been that there's been too much prosecution too soon. >> scott, i do wonder if donald trump sort of as a point in that. he knows that the timing of it

actually is really important. because it needs to kind of be before the election. is that how he is trying to spin this? >> well, he, look, this is the glue for the people that he has to hold together. to win this primary. as long as this thing stays fragmented, as long as you have half the party that doesn't want to do trump again, fragmented among nine, ten, 11 people, this kind of rhetoric is the glue that keeps the half of the party that like from together. the idea that this is all being done to persecute, him to prosecutors orders. so this sort of rhetoric is his political strategy. and has been noted many times. winning the election is his legal defense. the campaign is the defense. the defense is the campaign. and this is all part of that and as long. is there is no consolidation in the field, getting his group to stay together and not peel off of him is the name of the game. and so far there is really no evidence that they are. and so i would expect that they will keep seeing those strategies that has kept them together so far. >> i want to quickly ask you, yes or no question to both you,

mark, and you, scott. mitch romney has an op-ed in the wall street journal where he basically says that tre are so many people in the seal thathey are going to make it so that it is impossible for anyone to win but trump. that is the gist of what you are seeing there on your screen. is he correct? we'll start with you, mark. >> well he is correct theoretically but he is one wrong >> practically >> >> which never happens. thought? >> yeah -- he is right, fragmentation is. donald trump >>'s fast >> ramp >> getting much responders to reuniting thing research really impossible. so godspeed. he's right, i don't know how -- you pull it >> off >> [interpreter] appreciate you. >> thank you. >> all right, now to this, the israeli government passed a controversial law today that is dividing the country. and flooding the streets with protests, as we will have a report from jerusalem, as to what is going on in israel.

major developments out of israel tonight. a newly passed law is stoking significant division and outrage throughout the country. with tens of thousands taking to the streets to protest for and against legislation that curtails the supreme court's power to block government decisions and check prime minister netanyahu's power as well. let's go to senior international correspondent fred pleitgen who is in jerusalem. i spent quite a bit of time living there in jerusalem, i don't think i have ever since 2012 at least seen crowds this large standing out and standing

up for what they believe in. he specially up against the israeli government. can you tell me what this is all about? and what you are expecting tomorrow? >>, first of, all i think you are absolutely right, sarah, i think is -- determined as well. a lot of israelis believe democracy in this country is under a threat. they think that the law that was passed today, but also a flurry of other laws that the government wants to pass as well, which, you know, slowly we are supposed to curtail the powers of the supreme court. but not only, that it is also supposed to then make it easier for the government to change the makeup of the supreme court in this country as well, legally, that that is something that is something that is really been bad for israeli democracy. it really goes to the fundamentals, the foundations of israeli democracy. and marginalizes lot of people, by the way, as, well who are at protests today where we saw tens of thousands of people turning out. but also a lot of minorities turning out as well, for instance, the lgbtq community here in israel saying they fear

they could be in trouble if the government is unchecked. he specially with the far-right government that is in power right now. so to a lot of people this goes to the core of what israel's, and definitely -- balance of power in this country. >> a really unusual moment in israel's history. i do want to talk to you a bit about what is happening when it comes to military reservists. you are reporting that more than 10,000 reservists say they will refuse to serve in the military. what people need understand is that your military service is required. men and women are both required to serve as israelis. how could that have an impact on israel security. >> massive impact, i think this is gonna have one of the, could have one of the biggest impacts. something we also talk to protesters, they also said that this was a dangerous moment for israel. in terms of readiness. in case israel gets attacked. i spoke to one young man who said that he was close to going to military service, -- mandatory service here. he said, look, of course, there

is a big war, and israel is attacked, everyone is going to show up. however, in general, our are people going to come out and -- a longer feels for them, or the governor they feel is trying to martialized them. there were protesters who told me that that was an issue for them. he took about this 10,000 reservists who came out and said that they were going to refuse to serve. he'd been ripped to by benjamin netanyahu, also by the chief of the military here as well. there is some other politicians who are also calling on people to still show up for their service. but today when we were at these protests, sarah, we saw a lot of military reservists wearing those t-shirts, other military reserves to where they were the protesters on the ground. some of them even getting into fights with police officers. >> highly unusual situation, i can't say that enough. the israeli, they have been protesting for about six months now. why is netanyahu doing this? what is a mean for the ordinary israeli? >> well, for the ordinary israeli, the massive implication as far as the laws

in this country, are concerned. but also as far as moving this country further to the right is concerned. one of the things that many people here are afraid of, are concerned about, and that the government of the, day the government currently in power could make fundamental changes here in this country that could impact all of society without being kept in check. and i think that one of the things that people really need to realize is that israel does not have a written constitution. and so the supreme court really in many ways was sort of the keeper of what this country should be about, and about a lot of those fundamentals. we need to look at, for instance, that the law that was passed today is a law that will make it impossible for the supreme court to stop a lot of these legislative measures that the government wants to push through. or any government watch the push through that is in power here in israel, right now of course, you have benjamin netanyahu with the far-right government, with some ministers that many people believe will do things that are going to be highly to trundle to certain parts of society. and that is why so many good lore going out in the streets.

>> fred pleitgen, thank you so much for breaking that down. for all of us in your -- my old haunt, jerusalem, appreciate your time. thank you to the crew as well. president biden signed a proclamation today establishing a national monument honoring emmett till, up next, i will speak with phil's cousin about what this moment means for their family. ♪ if you struge. ♪ and struggle. ♪

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this week, as we saw -- outcry from people concerned that the history of slavery in this country is being whitewashed in florida or the state's department of education. a claim denied by florida officials, including the

governor. there is a move to honor and recognize the pivol role, the tragedy of one black american family had on our world. tomorrow, president biden is expected to announce the establishment of a national monument dedicated to emmett till. till was visiting family in mississippi in 1955, one to white man pulled him from his bed and marched him out of his home after a woman accused emit of whistling at her. thys later, tills bloated and mutilated body was pulled from a tallahassee river. when it came time for e funeral, his mother mamie till mobley said he wanted to see what racist hate had done to her son. that decision, and his, case was a pivotal moment that helped spike spark the civil rights movement, nearly 70 years later, several states will not have monuments built to remember him and his family. joining me now is emmett till's cousin and cofounder of the emmett till legacy foundation, debra watts. thank you so much for being here, debra.

>> thank you for having me. >> debra, i know you remember, this we met in minneapolis, it was a chance meeting during the weeks-long protest after george floyd was killed by her police officer. obviously the fight for silver it's not over,. but can you tell me what this moment means when you hear that there will be now recognition in public spaces of this momentous importance of details family and their tragedy? >> yes, well, you know, it's an exciting time. and it is one that i think will overdue. we have been in our own spaces, our foundations, our cousins, and other family members. taking it upon themselves to recognize that history, and to make sure that people are aware. for now at this level, at the highest level of our country. our leader in this country has decided that these are

pivotable, i'm, sorry i can't even say right. pivotal places that need to be recognized and served. and protected, i think that is what is really important. so we had nothing but destroy gratitude towards all the hard work that has gone on to starting with a family and others who have come on board these organizations that are gonna make sure what is happened to him -- you know, we are excited also, because we know that it is time that we even have a seat at the table. that our family has seat at the table, so that the erasure, the reimagining, of the truth. it's not retold in a way that it removes the dignity, the sacrifice, and the horrific nature of what happened there. because we don't want that. we want to make sure that we

have that opportunity to sit with those that are making those decisions about what these narratives will be saying, and be in enforcement places. and there is so many others as well to, sarah, in mississippi, that will be even traveling to this august on the 68th anniversary of emits murder. to make sure that people understand what those places mean on that journey that heats up. >> you mentioned something, deborah, that is a very salient thing for the time we are in. now there is a lot of discussion about what is happening with florida school board. with what is what is happening -- what some people look at as whitewashing the horrific nature of slavery. what do you worry about now, and in the context of the fact that now your cousin emmett till will be recognized for what happened going, and even to this day the sort of march

towards civil rights? >> well, you know, we have always understood that that march and that struggle needs to continue. that the stories need to be told. at the voices, so important to have more authentic voices telling those stories. eyewitnesses and those that are part of the family and others. that is important. and so, that has not been in the textbooks as of our today's educational system. so we know we will have to continue doing all of the hard work that was done before. even though there is a resistance to make sure that this is part of the curriculum in our education system. there is a resistance to the unmitigated truth about what happened back then. so we have to continue to do all of the work that we have done before. we know that the struggle continues and so we can't ignore the resistance. but we definitely have, i think, the energy and the inspiration behind us with --

and her courage to move us forward. >> can you tell us what you remember, you know, back when you were around, maybe. what do you remember about her, about all of the things, the family sort of 13. what did you go through? what are your mother go through? >> you know, it was a, i believe, for me, it was, and our family just were in awe of just her dignity, her courage, and it was her story to tell. it was her struggle to fight. she lead, and i believe laid this blueprint for all of us to be in all of it, to watch, and to watch firsthand before crowds of people, to tell her truth through her pain and her tragedy. then also moving forward towards just --

it was nothing but pride and, you know, me was my she-ro. and i believe it is for a lot of people as well. particularly those entails generation. so she, i think just took that, you know, took those rings. move things forward for this country. made some decisions that i think will cup america. you could not deny what was happening back then, because of her decision to have open casket funeral. so, you know, nothing but pride, nothing but just you in awe of her. and also just understanding that her fate pushed her third as well. and her village provided those opportunities for her to take the spotters and stand in her truth. >> yeah, seeing the mother's pain, any mother, can matter what color, can understand what that is. and she certainly did it with

grace. but also was a heavyweight for the family for so. long i know you are looking for justice, and justice never arrived. but i thank you for coming on the show, and discussing this with us. and we will be waiting to see what those monuments, are they are gonna be in three different places. and i am sure that you will be -- we will discuss that with you when that happens. >> okay, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> all right, now to the disturbing account, 23 year old black truck driver in ohio with police and their canine. what happened when the truck driver dropped to his knees with his hands up? we have the video and a robust discussion about driving while black. coming up next. but at the end of f the day, you know you have a team behind you that c can help you. not having to worry ababout the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

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there is growing outrage after the release of police body camera footage of a traffic stop that led to a police canine attacking a driver in ohio, i need to warn you that this footage is really disturbing. all right, here it is. it shows an unarmed black driver being mauled by a police dog after dropping to his knees, with his hands. authorities in ohio pulled over this 23-year-old truck driver on july 4th after a lengthy police chase that allegedly started over a missing much flap on that 18 wheeler. the driver of the truck told emergency dispatchers that he thought police were going to kill him, so he was slow to pull over. once he is out of that vehicle with his hands up, you can hear a surgeon telling the officer that has the canine not to release the dog multiple times. but canines released anyway, cnn's isabel rosales has more details for us.

>> i was about to fly with them. they had their guns drawn out for whatever reason. >> a newly-released 9-1-1 call made by a semi truck driver during a lengthy police chase, it reveals why he wouldn't exit the vehicle. >> i don't know why they are trying to kill me. >> they are not trying to kill you. >> but they are, they're -- trying to slow the tire. >> officers attempted to stop 23 year old darius rose in a commercial semi truck on july 4th. because of a missing man flap. according to a case report by the ohio state highway patrol. >> his -- police car behind me. and now -- >> the video shows roasted initially pull over, but didn't get out of the truck. and instead continued back onto the highway. with multiple law enforcement cars seen joining the chase. eventually, rose pulls over and exits the truck, surrounded by multiple officers. and in a circleville police canine unit that stopped to assist. you can hear contradictory verbal commands from the

officers. to not release the dog. >> despite warnings from the officers before it's not clear if the canine officer could hear the warning. [screaming] >> rosa cries out, as officers are yelling for a first aid kit and he is later seen being treated by the officers. he was taken by the hospital and then released. the police department and mayor confirmed in a statement that the review board was convened immediately, and is reviewing the incident. his attorney declined to comment to cnn. president of the naacp branch --

quote barbaric. >> those young people don't understand the meaning of a dog being released on a black person. it is history as this country watched as they released dogs and hose on black people because they are marching for the rights on this country. >> the county prosecutors office tells cnn that rhodes was released from custody on july 7th, that is three days after his arrest. right now that office is working still, it, ellis to gather the evidence and to determine whether to move forward with a charge against rose, that charge would be failure to comply with an order or signal by a police officer. that is a felony. sarah. >> thank you to our isabelle rosales. you just heard darius rose telling it is patrick is not pulling over because he did not feel safe and his fears were realized. joey jackson and john miller or here with me. i want to know what this tells you, about hold on, we will get an answer from the both of you

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all right, as we just saw in our last segment, an unarmed black man with his hand in the air was attacked by a police canine, despite another law enforcement officer repeatedly telling him not to release the dog. let's bring in cnn's law enforcement and intelligence analyst, john miller. also, cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson. first, before you jump in here, i wanted to play a part of his 9-1-1 call, let's listen to that. >> i don't know why --

i'm going to deliver this load, they tried to throw lights down. i don't know why. >> you need to pull over or you are going to get yourself more trouble than you are already in. >> i don't know why they're trying to kill me. >> they're not trying to kill. you >> yes they are. >> okay, so he says i -- we understand this was over a mud flaps, so he may not have known what he was being pulled over for, obviously. does the dispatcher listen to you, have a duty to tell the officers on the ground, hey, this guy is worried he is going to be killed, he is very fearful, do they get that information from dispatch? >> they may get some of that, it depends what she is typing, if it is coming out on the screen or she's putting it over the radio. we actually have not heard that part, but, you know, we have arrived at the middle of a bad judgment convention where everybody is playing. you have somebody driving an 18 wheeler who is getting pulled over for a mud flap by a police agency whose exact job is to do

that, it is the state police truck inspector who's supposed to be looking for safety violations. instead of pulling over, he continues for 35 minutes and speeds up to 70 something miles an hour. so you have to factor in, before we start at the end, which is the dog is released and bites him, we have to factor in what is going through their minds and what is they're going through their minds as questions of why is there a truck driver driving a massive vehicle, who's trying to evade us, and refusing to stop. when we -- he does stop he takes off again. when we throw down spike strips and disable him, he gets out and is very slow to follow his commands. their minds are racing for what is really going on here, and what is the threat. and then, as he is complying, of, course the canine officer releases the dog. that is wrong, but it is wrong at the end of the story. and you see somebody saying, don't release the dog while his hands are up. but, he is 125 feet away. we are hearing him on the microphone with the body

camera. those two officers by the cab of the truck were yelling the commands are screaming different commands at him. so, what you have, here is a tactical situation where there is not one person without command and control. >> nobody is in command, nobody is in charge, everyone is in charge which is the problem. >> it is a mess. >> so, joey, as a defense attorney, i'm going to turn that person now. is there a case here for this gentleman who, you could hear it all the confusion going on, but he did not stop. >> i don't think there's any question that there is a case, and here's why. number one, it is a mud flap. he is not leaving the scene of a crime in any particular way, i understand what john is saying, it informs the judgment with respect to him continuing to go and not complying, but, at the end of the day, they do to get compliance. he gets out of the truck, he has his hands up, and you have him calling the police on the police. clearly he didn't stop because of the fact that he did not trust the police officers.

what does that say about the state of play right now? and so, when you have a person who is compliant, not a person who is aggressive, not a person who is given the indication that he is going to attack the police, that he is going to engage in vicious behavior towards the police, what becomes the justification for unleashing the dog? you have to justify what you are doing, it doesn't make sense tactically, does it make sense from a common sense perspective, does it make sense at all, from any perspective? i think not. when you are situation where it is, when you're the situation room where a person's hands are up, where they do not represent a danger, where other police officers are saying don't do it, it becomes a problem. it should not have happened, and boy, it is without question it needs to be accountability. >> something is awry. >> john miller, thank you. >> did i just lose a case to joey jackson? >> i actually think -- >> john doe and doesn't lose

cases. >> let me tell you where this is going, they will not pursue this prosecution. this is joey jackson to do. this they will not pursue the prosecution in order to get his cooperation against the police officer in a disciplinary project, which is starting up right now with their use of force. they don't need. >> and there will likely be a similar case, which they may well settle as often happens. because i've been covering that. >> joey jackson, john miller, i appreciate both of you. thank you so much for watching, our coverage continues. ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) -awww. -awww. -awww. -nope. ( ♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. i'm sholeh, and i lost 75 pounds with golo.

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