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thank you so much for joining me tonight. "cnn primetime" starts right now. hi, abbie. >> good evening, everyone. i'm abbie phillip. thank you for joining me. this morning hunter biden woke up thinking he had a plea deal. tonight not only is he without one, but he is still under active investigation. now the president's son had expected to plead guilty to tax and gun possession charges after making a deal with the justice department. but the judge today raised some concerns about the deal, calling it unusual and tangled. in fact, at one point, she asked is it even constitutional? how prosecutors and biden's lawyers fought back and forth and eventually he changed his plea when the judge said she could neither accept nor deny

the deal in its current form. so now ahead of his father's re-election run, no less, the politics just got messier. it is giving republicans a new reason to keep pounding on their investigations and to cry foul over the alleged sweetheart deal that the president's son allegedly received. now i want to begin by bringing in former justice department prosecutor, former trump white house associate counsel, cnn political commentator and cnn political commentator and former republican congressman charlie dent. joseph, i want to start with you because this is so confusing, i think, for the average person. usually you think it's a plea deal. they have hammered it out in advance. they go into court. it gets more or less rubber stamped and they go about their business. that did not happen today. why did this fall apart? but really why did it fall apart now? >> it is funny. there is one lesson i was told when i was a junior prosecutor.

it was have your ducks in a row before you get in front of a judge. both sides didn't benefit their side, whether it was hunter biden's lawyers or the prosecutors here to go in and to -- you know, there was the question of whether they were lenient. the constitutional point was whether the diversion was immediate. it came down to a meeting of the minds as to whether or not this was the full scope of the prosecution. could hunter walk out and say i'm done? and clearly the prosecutor said well, no, we're going to keep investigating. there are other potential crimes coming. the defense counsel said, absolutely not. to see this unravel in front of a judge, it must have been an amazing spectacle. >> sometimes it seems like the judge did hunter biden a favor by clarifying that. >> yeah. she said it doesn't seem like you know what you are pleading to so i can't accept this deal that doesn't appear to be knowing and voluntary. but what was shocking to me and

i think what a lot of republicans took away from this is that it seemed like, yes, there was the written deal that we all know about, but was there some sort of unwritten deal, a wink and a nod deal about we're not going to prosecute you for other charges. and the judge asked the prosecutor in this case, have you ever given a similar deal, this sort of circumstance to any other person? and the prosecutor in the courtroom said no, never. never before. and i think that was this, what is going on moment? >> what a royal screw-up by both the prosecution and the very high-priced defense. not to know the scope of immunity walking in this, could he be charged under fara, they didn't know that? i mean, maybe if this script is right, they need an independent counsel to go after this. >> you raise a good point. i have seen enough. we need a spial prosecutor who has jurs tix over any and all biden family investigations. this is a charade, get rid of

the u.s. attorney. in some ways, if you are a democrat, if you are the biden white house, that -- that wouldn't be the worst thing to have an umbrella for all of this stuff, all of these wild accusations about hunter biden and the foreign dealings and the influence peddling and just have someone independent look at all of it at the same time. >> i think what isn't the worst thing, abbie, is this continues to underscore how obsessed the republican party is focussing on this push by their maga extremists who have a strangle hold on republican leadership in congress and how obsessive this is about going after hunter biden. hunter biden is not in office. hunter biden does not work at the white house. hunter biden did not get one vote. he is not running for re-election. the american people understand that. to me as a democrat and as a voter, the more that republicans sickly obsess over hunter biden

and talk about some ridiculous two tier justice system when the special prosecutor is trump appointed, when the judge is trump appointed, it just doesn't fall on any kind of reality. and i also think it gives a chance for democrats to underscore and highlight the massive hypocrisy when republicans are trying to talk about the special deal that hunter got in passing on his family name and trying to benefit from it when the trump kids who worked at the white house enrich themselves by billions of dollars through the chinese, through the saudis right there in the people's house. i think this is a huge loser for republicans. and if that's where they want to focus their energies, bring it on. >> yeah. i think this is -- this might shift the feeling, the general feeling, which i think you definitely capture, which is

there is an obsession with hunter biden. >> uh-huh. >> i think republicans have been trying to say, no, no, no. it is not hunter. we care about joe, and we care about this, you know, doj lack of fairness. and when you see today that there is some sort of investigation that hunter biden is scared enough about probably relating to foreign business dealings, now you have got some questions that bring in the irs whistleblowers. now you, i think, can start shifting that narrative to joe biden. >> i disagree. there has been no connection, no real connection that republicans have been able to make. >> maria, look, i agree that republicans will overreach on hunter biden, and i'm no trump guy. but i have to say, looking at this hunter biden situation, a guy getting paid $50,000, $60,000 a month to serve on a ukrainian gas company board who is admittedly addicted to drugs. this smells. it is nothing illegal, but it stinks. it smells of influence peddling. and, again, i'm not saying joe

biden did anything wrong. i'm saying it smells bad. same with the chinese deals. i'm not going to defend anything trump did, but people with asking legitimate questions about how does that happen. >> i want to ask joe a question here going back to what happened in the courthouse today. why is it that the prosecutors would not have been clear about what else is being investigated here, especially if it has to do with the foreign registration part of this, which is a more serious allegation. why would they not have sorted that out before getting into this courthouse? >> i want to put on my conspiracy hat. >> go right ahead. >> i will say that prosecutors planned to keep the investigation open so that hunter biden could assert his fifth amendment rights and not be called before congress and the prosecutors not be hauled before congress so they could say the investigation is still going. but when the judge picked at that and said, wait a minute, why are we still here then?

and then we put the prosecutors at that point they said well, actually, yeah, more charges could come down the road. so i think that everyone was perfectly willing to let the investigation stay open with the hope that it would quietly die in the vine in the next couple of years. when the judge called it out and shown a spotlight on it, they said, yeah, we are going to keep going and fara is possible and that made everyone real uncomfortable. >> i do want to move on to something else, but the die on the vine point is something that transcends administrations here. it was allegedly die on the vine under trump. now under biden. and there is still no explanation as to why that happened. i do want to talk, though, about what's going on with her friend rudy giuliani, trump's former attorney. he's now conceding that he has defamed these two georgia election workers. it's an admission that seems to come at an opportune time when he's trying to shed illegal

exposure here. >> yes. in this lawsuit, so these are the two election workers said to have brought suitcases of ballots, turns out they were not suitcases, they were hidden bins of ballots, not good. so they already settled with one person news. rudy giuliani says that the statements were falsed. he didn't admit to a couple of things. he didn't admit he was negligent in making them. i still think you have to prove that in the defamation claim. and he says he will make a first amendment defense which makes a lot of sense because in the political process you have to be able to make political statements. i don't trust the elections. so he's going to try to make that defense. hey, these ladies brought suitcases worth of ballots. does that fall under potentially chilled political speech? maybe not. but, yes, he seems to be at least shedding himself of the discovery into his e-mails, into his texts about whether he knew the statements were false. >> i want to remind people what

moss testified during the january 6th hearings. it was really sering testimony that she went through as a result of some of those lies. >> i felt horrible. i felt like it was all my fault, like if i would have never decided to be an elections worker, like i could have done anything else, but that's what i decided to do. and now people are lying and spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. i'm an only child, going to my grandmother's house, i'm her only grandchild. and my kid is just -- i felt so bad. >> you know, it's kind of crazy that it's two years later that giuliani is finally acknowledging the way that he put these women through all that. >> and it is so heart wrenching

that these women went through something like that because of some insidious lies that somebody like rudy giuliani was talking about, only so that trump could overturn a fair and free election. and i think what that reminds us of is trump can do it again. maybe not with rudy giuliani because hopefully he's not going to be allowed to ever do anything like this again. but he'll have others. he'll have others that will believe that he is going to be, you know, cheated if he doesn't win, which i don't think he will. so who else is going to be now going to be victimizing people like shea and people who focus on trying to run elections and do essentially the work of our democracy. >> if you are giuliani, joseph, and you are looking at the january 6th investigation on the special counsel's side of things, starting to wrap up around former president trump and then you also have georgia

that's still outstanding, what are you worried about tonight? >> oh, i'm worried about personal exposure, right? it's clear donald trump has an m.o., which is that when people are no longer helpful to him he discards them. that's where i see rudy right now. he's not getting any support from the former president. if i was rudy, i would be saying, look, i would be a lot less worried about donald trump and more worried about my personal exposure whether in new york, florida, whether washington, d.c. right here because there is a number of different ways that, you know, some of these charges could follow rudy personally. >> so many of these people who made these false statements, including rudy giuliani, they knew better. they were being told by republicans that, you know, you lost the election, and they had plenty of evidence. the fact that -- you know, the question for rudy giuliani is did he knowingly make those statements that were false? or did he find that out after the fact? but i'm sure that these guys were all told that they had evidence that these were not stolen elections, stolen votes.

>> absolutely. >> now they're going to pay a big price. i knew ruby giuliani when he was a powerful effective mayor, and to see where this man is now, it is heart-breaking to see this. >> all for one person. >> yeah. >> well, you know, i -- the way in which some of these folks like ruby and shea were picked out of obscurity, just people posting videos online and then maligned like this, i mean, you don't have to have a file and information to know that -- >> their lives were destroyed. >> -- that it is wrong to do that. but maria and charlie, thank you all for joining us for this. coming up next, ron desantis says he would consider anti-vaxxer rfk jr. to lead the fda or cdc. plus, a serious question tonight about senator mitch mcconnell after he froze mid sentence and had to be escorted away during a press conference. and chris wallace joins me on how more and more republicans are pouring cold water on the

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the nda this week. good bipartisan cooperation. and a strain of -- >> you okay, mitch? let's go back to your office. do you want to say anything else to the press? i'll take it from here. >> mcconnell later said that he was fine when he was questioned about the incident. joining us now is dr. megan rainey, the dean of yale's school of public health. i have watched that video now

several times. and every time i watch different parts. his body swaying, his eyes, the way his speech slows as he stops. what do you see when you watch that? >> so it's difficult to know for sure what happened without being there. but i noted the same thing that you did, that gradual slowing of speech, the way his eyes stayed still. i did notice he was still able to walk and move his hands. it leads me to a couple diagnosis. one being mini stroke for transient ischemic attack. the other being a partial seizure. both are serious. there are other things as well that happened. what i took away most of all is he needs a good medical workup to figure out what happened. >> to that point, he stepped away from the podium for about 12 minutes. were you surprised that he then came back, both that he came back and also that he seemed to have resolved, to some extent,

and was able to continue the conversation? >> i was surprised that he came back, assuming that this is a new thing that happened. either a tia or a new diagnosis of partial seizure would need a workup. if i had been there, i would have sent him to an er to get a full workup. the only reason that i can imagine that he came back is it was a manifestation of something that had already been going on. we know he had a concussion months ago. concussions can lead to seizures. so i can't help but wonder if this was something he's already been experiencing and that's why he was so quick to come back and not be rushed off to an emergency department. >> that's an interesting point. i want to ask you on a separate topic about republican presidential candidate ron desantis. here is what he said in response to a question about whether he would consider making robert f. kennedy jr. his running mate. listen. >> yes, the medical stuff i'm

very good on that, so that does appeal to me. but there is a whole host of other things he would probably be out of step with. in that regard it's like, okay, if you are president, stick him on the fda if he would be willing to serve or on cdc. >> this is an individual who is well known for spreading misinformation about science, about vaccines. ron desantis there saying he would consider putting him on one of the major federal agencies that deals with public health and safety. what is your reaction to that? >> so, first of all, he is unqualified. it would be like putting a medical doctor in charge of the u.s. treasury. second, as you point out, he's not just unqualified, but he's well known for spreading mistruths, partial truths and frank lies about things ranging from vaccines to antidepressants. this is an absolute disservice to the institution of public health, to the institutions of the cdc and the fda who are working so hard to project the

american public. i also have to say note governor desantis' language there, about sicking him on these agencies that do so much to keep us safe. right now we need to defend public health workers under attack across the country. to imply that someone like him would be qualified to lead one of these agencies is almost laughable to me. >> dr. megan rainy, thank you so much for your expertise on all of that. >> thank you. and after two years of everyone predicting a recession, surprise, the fed now says it is unlikely. chris wallace will join me next on how this puts republicans in a pickle going into the election season. plus, remember when donald trump used to rail against mail-in and early voting? well, tonight he's apparently chained his mind.

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comcast business, powering possibilities. he's called ate fraud, a scam, a hoax, pick your adjective. but tonight donald trump is now changing his mind on early and mail-in voting. >> republicans must get tougher

and fight harder to cast our votes and get our ballots turned in earlier so democrats can't rig the polls against us on election day. we cannot let that happen. >> now, obviously those claims of rigging the polls are not true, but listen to all the years of trump telling republican voters the exact opposite. >> i think a lot of people cheat with mail-in voting. the biggest problem we have right now are the ballots. millions of ballots going out. that's the biggest problem. universal mail-in voting is going to be catastrophic and make our country a laughing stock all over the world. the ballots are out of control. you will never know when the election is over. because they have that long early voting in florida. it is so long. and so many things could go wrong when you have that long period of time, right? it shouldn't be mailed in.

you should vote at the booth and you should have voter id. >> lots of things will happen during that period of time, especially when you have tight margins. lots of things can happen. >> you will have problems with the ballot like nobody has ever seen before. >> it shouldn't be mail-in voting. it should be you go into a booth and you proudly display yourself. >> with the unsolicited millions of ballots that they're sending, it is a scam. it is a hoax. we discussed it yesterday, jeff, where they wanted all sorts of things having to do with mail-in voting. >> it is worth noting that many republicans cited trump's attacks as one of the reasons for their loss in 2020 and the underperformance in the mid-terms. one republican campaign official put it this way saying we can sit here and tk about mail-in voting and use that as an excuse, but that's like an alcoholic saying they're not

going to drink gin anymore, just beer. we have 99 problems and mail-in voting is one. in the wake of kevin mccarthy's comments on monday where he appeared to be warming to the idea of advising impeachment, many republicans in both the house and the senate poured cold water on the idea. >> this is impeachment theater. what he's doing is saying there is a shiny object over here. we will focus on that. we just need to get all these things done so we can focus on a shiny object. >> i'm not going to vote to impeach anybody because i don't like their politics. >> i think this is not good for the country, to have repeated impeachment problems. >> and joining me now to discuss this is the host of "who's talking to chris wallace," chris wallace himself. this is a real problem for

republicans as they go into the next few weeks. do they have the support of republicans to do something like this? what is behind mccarthy opening up this door in the way that he is this week in. >> well, there is certainly a lot of support among the right wing, the freedom caucus, a number of the hard liners. when you get somebody like ken buck, a republican in the house saying this is just a distraction, this is a bright, shiny object from all the problems that republicans have and then you see the total disinterest on the part of republicans in the senate, i mean, you know, the basic question you got to ask yourself is what is the high crime and misdemeanor that they are alleging that joe biden has committed? that's what the constitution says. high crimes and misdemeanors. mccarthy said, well, we have to have the inquiry to find out. it has a bit of an alice in wonderland quality to it. you know, i just -- they can talk about it.

i suppose they could open an investigation if they want. but if they were actually going to go to the floor and vote, this is a very hard vote, even if the conservative republican-led house for a lot of those republicans who actually won in districts that joe biden won. this would be a pretty hard vote for them to take. >> yeah. to your point, they have not really been able to show much evidence of anything that's directly tied to president biden. but the other context of this -- i think there is a politics of what mccarthy is facing in the house itself. the other part of it is just the big picture here. this is a republican party going into a presidential election in which the economy, which would have been a big issue, is now leveling off. you have inflation coming down from 9% year over year to 3% year over year. you have the fed now raising rates but then saying, hey, we don't know there will be a recession. maybe there won't be. do you think they have to kind

of find a plan b if they cannot run on the economy? >> well, they certainly will have to find a plan b, c and d. in having said that, the economy is still going to be an issue. yes, inflation is dramatically down from 9% year over year to now in the last reading i think was 3% year over year. but when you look at the polls, people still do not think that joe biden has done a good job on the economy. in a recent poll, the monomoth poll, 60% of voters, republicans and democrats said they disapprove of the way that joe biden has handled inflation in particular. so, you know, this is a sense sometimes people's perception of what the think is lags by a considerable amount behind what the latest numbers are. now having said that, we're more than a year away from the election. if inflation continues to bump along at 3% or even lower and you don't see us tipping into a

recession, that's going to be a harder case to make. there are plenty of other cases to make against joe biden without impeaching him for high crimes and misdemeanors when you don't know what those alleged offenses are. >> yeah. i mean, there are -- there are a lot of things between where republicans are now and impeaching the sitting president for high crimes and misdemeanors. i do want to turn now to what you got going on your show this week. a personal favorite of mine, brad paisley, is someone who was sitting at your table. you spoke to him about a recent trip that he made to ukraine where he actually performed and met with troops. let's watch that moment. >> why did you want to write a song that connects life here in the u.s. to what those poor folks are going through over there in. >> i was really affected when the invasion first happened, a year ago and change now. and the idea i had was, you

know, do we have these things in common? it just really does make me, i think, appreciate what we have more than i ever have in my entire life, knowing that it's fragile. >> i mean, you are really personally committed to this, aren't you? >> i am. somebody asked me the other day how did you wind up caring about this that much. the answer is i don't know. i just was affected so much in the beginning that the next thing you know -- and this has been the story of my life. write a song, and it winds up leading you places you never expected. >> i would love you to just play a little passage that particularly makes the point you want to make. >> yeah, yeah. i think, as we wrote it, as a kid from west virginia asking this question, you know -- ♪ how are things in california ♪ i hear the traffic's just

insane ♪ plastic people and paparazzi ♪ tell me, is there a bar on your corner ♪ where you buy each other beers ♪ and solve all the world's problems ♪ same here. >> i love that. i love brad paisley's voice. but it is so interesting that he decided to dive into this topic. politically i would say it's pretty polarizing still. why did he tell you this is something he wanted to go over there and see for himself and engage in from a musical perspective? >> well, it is controversial. and particularly a lot of country music fans tend to be on the right side of the political

spectrum, and there is some growing doubt and fatigue with supporting the cause in ukraine. you know, paisley said he has toured on a lot of these countries in europe and a big square with all the people. and to see a war now, the kind of thing we thought ended with world war ii where people in the capitol city of kyiv that he went to are running for their lives and people are dying in their homes just really struck him. and this isn't just he went on a trip and he wrote a song called "same here," the idea that the people there are just like us but they're going through something unimaginable, the process, that's the first single from his new album, the proceeds from that are going to build homes, the homes that have been destroyed by the russians in their invasion that's been beginning on for more than a year now. so he's putting his money where his wonderful singing voice is. and as a favorite of yours,

abbie, i got to make your jealous because throughout this entire interview, he sings a number of songs to us. to have this personal concert, to be right across the table from him with that voice and the guitar, it was very special. >> i am super jealous, actually. i really do love brad paisley, i have been listening to his music for many, many, many years. and it is cool to hear him talk and not just sing, actually. chris wallace, thank you so much, as always, for joining us. >> thank you, abbie. >> and don't miss "who's talking to chris wallace" every friday at 10:00 p.m. eastern. and as the summer of the strike intensifies, one hollywood star is making a demand when it comes to ai and jobs. after joseph gordon levitt joins me live next. plus, she led a complicated and talented life. tonight, the world remembers

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that was actor, writer and director joseph gordon levitt, the founder of hit record and he penned a piece in "the washington post" today titled if artificial intelligence uses your work, it should pay you. on july 14th, the sag actor union that represents about 160,000 workers officially went on strike after failing to reach a deal with hollywood's biggest studios. and the crucial demand is the future of ai or artificial intelligence. and the question of how it can be used to potentially replace the labor of real humans. he joins me now. to add to your list of titles, you are an actor, director and now author in "the washington post." this piece is a stark warning, though. >> thank you. i'm kind of star struck to be here. this is a new experience for me being on like a news show.

i'm very excited. >> yeah, yeah. well, we're here to add to your resume. look, you are asking, basically, for ai to basically -- or not ai but the companies behind ai to pay the people behind all of the content that they put into this algorithm. who do you think should be paid for their work. and how would any of this work? >> yeah. how would it work? it would be a tall order. so the way these ai models work is they feed them a ton of training data, right? we herd of generative ai models, the chatbots, et cetera, but they can't generate anything until they have been fed all of this training data. and that is produced by humans. >> right. >> so the humans who produce that training data, i think, deserve compensation. it's as simple as that. >> not just actors and directors but like the camera folks as well and who else?

>> i think so, yeah, because, you know, eventually they're saying and i think it's probably true. i don't know how long it will take. but soon enough these ai tools will be able to generate an entire movie. and, you know, that's all the camera movement, all the costumes, all the set designs. that's everything. and all the camera operators, all the costume designers, all the set designers, their work, their skill and their experience is what is being mimicked and mashed up by these ais. they couldn't do that without that human labor. yeah. i think all of those people deserve compensation. >> someone will have to come up with a system to make all of this happen. the tech companies and even perhaps the studios will face new incentives to do this because they have to pay more people. so how do you envision this happening from a practical perspective? >> it's a really good question. and this is -- you know, you brought up this strike. i don't know that this is

something that labor unions can just ask for and get. i think this is maybe bigger than any single industry or any single union or a couple unions like sag and wga which is striking down hollywood. this has to happen in hollywood. and there is some encouraging sign of congress and the white house moving towards regulating ai. and in my opinion, one of the things that that regulation should address is this issue that big business should not be able to make all this money using ai unless they're compensating the people whose data trained the ai. >> do you think it is going to be prohibitively expensive to do this? >> here's the thing. these companies, what they want to have happen is they want to say, wow, now we have these ai tools so we can cut costs immensely. our profit margin can go from here to here. i'm saying maybe not. maybe your profit margins can grow incrementally and you can

pay all the people that need to be paid that put in the labor to train your ai and maybe it is okay if the growth doesn't skyrocket and the economy doesn't fall apart because everyone has lost their jobs. >> you raise a fascinating set of issues here in this piece. i encourage everybody to read it because it is thought provoking in a lot of different ways. thanks for making us your first cable news appearance. >> my honor. >> we're honored to have you. joseph gordon-levitt, thank you very much. >> cheers. and underway right now, senators are up late as democrats hold a talk-a-thon on the floor speaking out against tommy tupperville's blocking of nominees. and sinead o'connor. ♪ i love you

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a number one hit in 1990, earning her multiple grammy nominations. the singer made headlines in 1992 when she tore up a picture of pope john paul the second on snl, with a message, fight the real enemy. an outspoken activist, in recent years o'connor opened up about four shows with addiction and mental health. and she's also talked about the abuse that she endured as a child. >> my mother was a beast. and i was able to -- soothe her with my voice. -- use my voice to make the devil fall asleep. my father is the type of man that he didn't want anyone talking about what happened. and that's what was wrong with me. it wasn't talked about, even in the family. the cause of my own obese was the church's effect on this country, which had produced my mother. i spent my entire childhood being beaten up because of the

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♪ ♪ ♪ >> did you catch that? that was jason aldine's new music video, try that in the small town. it may look a little different after intense backlash. in the original video, on your left, local television footage of black lives matter protests in atlanta was projected over a courthouse. now, the video has been edited to remove all images of that protest. -- short video by about six seconds, but the -- aldine accused of promoting racial violence. now, i'll dean is standing by the song and blaming cancel culture for the -- his record label, bb armies group says that the protest footage was removed due to -- and thank you for joining me tonight on "cnn primetime". i am abby philip, and "cnn tonight" starts right now with sara sidner.