o your heart's desire with the l'or barista system. a masterpiece in taste. thank you so much for joining me tonight. "cnn primetime" starts right now with a lot of news. >> quite a lot of news as usual around here. thank you, kaitlan. good evening, everyone. i am abby philip. welcome to a special edition of "cnn primetime." a blockbuster new turn of events tonight in the historic legal peril facing former president donald trump. the special counsel is now

leveling more charges against the former president in the classified documents case. you'll recall he has already been indicted with one of his other aides and now another aide, a third, is a defendant being charged as well. here is what they are accused of doing according to the superseding indictment. trump ordered his aides delete mar-a-lago's surveillance server to evade investigators and prevent evidence going to the grand jury. keep in mind trump's aides are accused of moving boxes of classified materials all over the property to hide them from investigators and even from his own lawyers. that is the new obstruction part of this indictment. in addition to that jack smith's team now confirms that trump indeed possessed a top-secret plan to attack iran and he did show it to people who did not have the security clearance necessary to see it and by alleging this prosecutors are calling one of trump's defenses

a lie. >> there was no document. that was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about iran and other things. it may have been held up or may not but that was not a document. i didn't have a document per se. there was nothing to declassify. these were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles. >> knowing what we know from this indictment, remember trump's own words here. >> in my administration, i am going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law. one of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information. we also need the best protection of classified information. >> if all of that isn't enough

for one day, trump's lawyers also met with the special counsel today in a completely separate case, the one focused on his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. it appears an indictment there is likely as well and the lawyers made a last ditch plea to jack smith to avoid it. we'll get to that in just a moment but let's start first with the new charges in the mar-a-lago case. with us now is paula reed. this is really extraordinary. in some ways we've been talking to lawyers for weeks. many did not necessarily expect more coming for trump in particular but not only is it more, but so much more detail here as well. >> that's right. not only new charges but also a new co-defendant. here they're adding a one count of willful retention of national defense information and then two additional counts of obstruction because these prosecutors allege the former president and two of his employees tried to destroy surveillance footage. now, that surveillance footage

has really been at the center of this investigation not only as evidence for prosecutors as they try to piece together where these boxes containing classified information moved throughout the property but we also know they've been pressing witnesses about whether anyone tried to prevent them from obtaining the surveillance footage or if anyone tried to destroy it. but it was interesting when we got the first indictment. that didn't show up. we know they have continued this investigation down in florida, so now we're seeing it all come together in this superseding indictment. also notable that according to prosecutors, the two trump employees allegedly wanted to destroy the surveillance because, quote, the boss wanted it deleted. the boss of course being former president trump, one of the big outstanding questions in the investigation is the extent to which the former president was directing any of this alleged conduct. but of course also getting a new

co-defendant in addition to trump's long time aide walt nauta who was charged in the first indictment they are now also charging another mar-a-lago employee, carlos deoliveria a maintenance worker at mar-a-lago and has been seen on surveillance footage moving boxes with walt nauta. it has been a question about whether he, too, would be charged. today we got our answer. >> paula, tell us what we know about this third co-defendant now, carlos de oliveria, the head of maintenance at mar-a-lago. how did he get wrapped up in this? >> the boss wanted something done, right?so unique about thi investigation is through our reporting we've seen pretty much every single employee at mar-a-lago has had to talk with special counsel investigators at one point. there were a few who really stood out as possibly having criminal exposure. walt nauta being the first. we know he was pressed to flip and did not do that. here we have carlos.

as you noted his job is in maintenance but he came to our attention because we learned he was also seen on the surveillance footage moving boxes with walt nauta. the surveillance footage was handed over to investigators and one particular piece of surveillance footage that stood out was when he helped nauta move boxes out of a storage closet right before one of trump's lawyers was searching the same closet for classified material. now we know that carlos has spoken with investigators and we also know his phone was seized. he has a lawyer like many of the witnesses in this case who is paid by a trump affiliated political action committee. his lawyer had no comment on the charges but they are expected in court for initial appearance next week. >> we'll talk a little bit about that lawyer and what the indictment says about that coming up with our panel, and paula reid, thank you very much.

joining me now are former federal prosecutors as well as cnn opinion contributor and former house republican investigative committee counsel sophia nelson and a former trump white house deputy press secretary sarah matthews. so, joseph, so much more detail in this indictment, but really at the end of the day this is about trump. this is about trump directing what really is a conspiracy that goes beyond just his closest, trusted aide, but now has entangled a third co-defendant in an effort to obscure and hide and even get his lawyers to lie to the federal government. >> it is a shame about the junior employees in trump's employ. it seems like he has this way of entangling people in his problems and then casting them aside. he'll pay for their lawyers as long as they keep their mouths shut but that is basically the deal. >> as you bring up the lawyers and trump paying for it there is part of the indictment that is

really telling about how trump approaches this. it says here that just over two weeks after the fbi discovered classified documents in the storage room in trump's office, nauta called trump employee number five and said the words to the effect of someone just wants to make sure carlos is good. carlos is the third defendant now. and in response that employee told nauta that carlos de oliveria was loyal and would not do anything to affect his relationship with trump. that same day trump called de oliveria and told him trump would get him an attorney. >> yeah. conflict of interest there perhaps? right? i mean, look. trump is free to pay for his employees' attorneys. but he is not free to tell them what to say, to expect silence, or to put any kind of pressure on them in leveraging the paying of that attorney. so i think a lot of these folks might say at some point, trump is not looking out for me.

maybe i should get my own lawyer. >> what do you make of the fact that there is so much more evidence here of trump being as described in the indictment -- >> being trump. >> -- the boss. yeah. it is almost this elaborate scene out of some kind of mob movie. >> when i was a federal prosecutor with my good friend here, one of the most wonderful charges was obstruction of justice and the reason it is a great charge is you can be innocent and still commit obstruction of justice but here we have great underlying evidence, allegations of violations of the espionage act, but the obstruction of justice shows the consciousness of guilt. i have to say paragraphs 75 to 91 of this indictment, if they are true, are absolutely devastating and help a prosecutor. >> tell us what those paragraphs describe. >> well, 75 to 91 talk about the

doj attorney called one of the attorneys for donald trump on j get a grand juryubena for security footage. the next day, walter nauta changes his travel plans instead of going to illinois he goes to mar-a-lago and the rest is history. >> there is a part in that section there where he is texting people telling them he is going down to florida and he is using the shushing emoji to describe the secrecy with which he is doing all of this. which as we often in the legal world talk about people's state of mind. clearly folks around trump knew they were doing something surreptitiously that was probably wrong and maybe even illegal for trump. >> i completely agree. i think this goes to show that trump knew he was in the wrong for keeping these documents when he had no right to hold on to

them. and now unfortunately his staffers are taking the fall as well because he required them to engage in potentially illegal activity, obviously, you know, this is just an indictment right now. he needs to be proven guilty. but the facts in the indictment are pretty damning >> i think what jack smith is doing is brilliant. he is taking it step by step and giving us a little at a time so we digest that this thing is bigger and more awful than we probably know by the time we get to the january 6th indictments. and i don't want to jump ahead but i think that what you say is right, gene. those paragraphs are devastating and it really goes to who donald trump is. i grew up in south jersey so this guy has been a staple in my life forever. i'm old enough to remember seeing him on the "inquirer" magazines and everything else. this is who he has been forever. he is for lack of a better way to put it a mob boss. he tells you what to do.

dominions do it and don't stop to think about their liability only this time they are playing with as you said espionage and federal crimes and this is really serious stuff here. very. >> he has been broadcasting for a long time, right? this argument that i don't believe i did anything wrong. i can declassify these documents. they're not kept any old place. the secret service is there guarding them. well, if he really didn't think he did anything wrong what we've now learned today decimates that. why are you deleting surveillance footage and having boxes moved? why are you hoping your lawyers will kind of lie for you, wink, wink? i don't see how he maintains that argument which already had problems. now it is toast. >> it has worked for him his whole life is my point. there is a pattern and practice with donald trump that starts way before the white house with how he runs his business, cuts his deals, gets out of things, explains things, doesn't pay people. this is not new, folks. america, you got to wake up. >> sarah, in terms of trump's

state of mind here, i think the superseding indictment adds more lawyers to just the curiosity about what would have prompted him to take all of these extra steps? as you pointed out, right after he first learned there would be a subpoena for the documents, he basically has walt nauta move the boxes and then has them try to delete the surveillance footage. do you think there is more here about why trump really didn't want the feds to get the documents back? >> i think he had a right to hold on to them. the fact is these are america's top secrets and he was storing them in a bathroom in mar-a-lago. they had no place to be there with him. it is one thing if you accidentally, mistakenly take classified documents in a move and obviously we've seen from trump and his team they've tried to conflate the issue with, you know, former vice president pence accidentally taking classified material, president

biden taking classified material. the thing is they returned that material once it was discovered. with trump, he thought he had a right to hold on to this. wanted to avoid giving it back. and then directed his employees to hide it from the federal government. i think that just goes to show he knew he was doing something wrong and he is going to throw out every excuse, you know, out there to try to shift the blame. >> gene, how significant is it do you think that we now believe it looks like from the indictment that the doj has this document, that he was allegedly waving around at the bedminster meeting that refers to attack plans against iran? it did not show up in the first indictment. they referenced it but never charged him with that document. they have now charged him. how significant is that? >> it is very significant because he had an interview i think with sean hannity or somebody on fox where he was saying it was a bunch of

newspapers, articles, magazines. and now you have the document, the corpus delecti and it was the document he was holding up and showing to people. that to me of all the things he has done allegedly, and he is presumed innocent, of all of the things he has done allegedly, is he is showing war plans, nuclear secrets to people who have no business having top-secret clearance or hearing top-secret information. that to me is the worst. but i got to follow up on something joe said. this goes to what michael coen said. donald trump has an amazing ability to find people who are vulnerable. who will do whatever hsays. michael cohen said this several years ago. it's a brilliant, evil skill of his. and he picked on nauta and he picked on this carlos de

oliveera. he found employees who will do anything for him and that is a crime in itself. >> and they put in the superseding indictment the transcript of the interview that the fbi had at carlos de oliveira's home. you read it and you see someone who is leaping, before he is even asked a question, he says, no. he is lying before he is even asked. that was so interesting to me about just the conduct of someone who is embroiled in a very serious case and his willingness to go there for trump. >> it's sad. i don't even know if he understands the magnitude of what he has gotten himself into now. note that the lawyers didn't fall for this. most of us lawyers are pretty good about to try to cover ourselves and not be coerced by a client to lie in their behalf. they knew better. i see it as a shame these junior level individuals who are not attorneys or trained in the law

will take the fall for this guy and it is a sad situation. >> and trump, it also explains why you have to charge the person who is the ring leader. >> it is also the power imbalance. they are enamored they are working for donald trump. he's been around, celebrity apprentice, all these things. just help me out. i got you. maybe this will open a door for me. i think people get caught up in the cult of donald trump and i think that is really the danger of him to your point >> i think what worries me, too, is we saw what happened with cassidy hutchinson in the january 6th committee hearings when she had a trump-appointed lawyer. they were paying for her legal fees at the very beginning and trying to coerce her testimony to be in favor of trump. obviously she did the right thing and fired that lawyer and hired a new one actually representing her best interests and told the truth to the american people about what happened that day. i hope his employees do the same and look out for their best interests not trump's. >> we will see. perhaps there is still time for

a lot of that to unfold. everyone stick around for me. coming up next one of trump's republican 2024 rivals joins me here live. plus i'll speak live with a former trump official that said he witnessed trump mishandling classified documents while in office. this is cnn's special live coverage. i hired lolocal talent. if i k knew about upwork, i would have h hired actually talented people from all over the world. instead of talentless people from all over my house. -grandpa... -shh.. shh.. shh.. -but... -shh.. shh... shh... -but... -oh... ♪ this is how we work now ♪ introducing the all-new 2024 chevy trax. ♪ ♪ helps you stay connected, ♪

safe ♪ and charged. ♪ the all-new chevy trax starting at $21,495. the possibilities are endless. was also the first time your profits left you speechless. at the counter or on the go, save 20% with the lowest transaction fees and keep more of what you make. start saving today at godaddy.com ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪

my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy.

if you struggle. ♪ and struggle. ♪ and struggle with cpap. you should check out inspire. ♪ no mask. no hose. just sleep. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com more on breaking news

tonight, with donald trump facing new charges in the classified documents case including accusations he ordered aides to delete the server of mar-a-lago's surveillance video. if that sounds familiar it is because of this. >> where is the server? how come the fbi never got the server from the dnc? where is the server? i want to see the server. let's see what's on the server. now i don't know how the fbi can investigate something if the dnc, the democrats refuse to give the server. where is the server? i want to know where is the server? what is the server saying? she set up this illegal server knowing full well that her actions put our national security at risk and put the safety and security of your children at risk. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena, you get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails.

and then you acid wash them or bleach them. i'd like to see the server. i think it is very important for this country to see the server. >> joining me now is one of donald trump's 2024 republican rivals former texas congressman will hurd. we played that really to illustrate how much this has been a part of the public life and now to see in this indictment pretty clear evidence, allegations here that trump was the one who directed his aides to try to delete surveillance footage, delete the server so federal investigators would not see what was on them. >> abby, i've never been indicted and i am not a lawyer, but if you are deleting evidence it is because you know you are committing a crime. anybody who supports this, anybody who defends this, is complicit in endangering america, endangering men and

women putting themselves in harm's way every single day and every single night in order for us to enjoy these freedoms. let me be clear about this. donald trump is not running for president to make america great again. donald trump is not running for president to defend our interests overseas. donald trump is not even running to represent the people that voted for him in 2016 and in 2020. donald trump is running for president in order for him to stay out of jail. these are serious crimes, serious accusations, and donald trump is a national security risk and he needs to be beaten in a primary so we can be done with him once and for all. i hope i can be on that debate stage in order to have these conversations but i need everybody's help. i need folks to go to hurd for america.com and help me do that. >> so many of your colleagues who are also running in the 2024

race are running against trump and say they would support him if he were the nominee. do you think that given the conduct in this indictment he should be in the oval office again if he is elected? >> of course he shouldn't be in the oval office. this is just more example of how he doesn't care about people. look at his two aides he has tossed away and made him do their dirty work. the fact anybody else thinks this guy is fit for office is disappointing to me. i do believe the best way to finish this once and for all is to beat him in a primary but this is a guy that, the question that he has not answered, why is he trying to keep all these documents? >> what do ung the answer is? >> look, i do not know. when you look at the information that he has, this is information from the nro, this is the folks that handle all of our satellites. this is from the nsa. people that handle our signals intelligence. this is from the cia, special

access programs, some of our most classified documents. why are you keeping these? why are you lying about these? these are not your documents. these are the documents of america and the american people and if they got into the wrong hands that hurts us. when you look at the number of events held at mar-a-lago, donald trump still has not told us what security he put in place in order to protect these documents. it is not the secret service's responsibility to protect these documents. it was his. he has not explained to us why he had them. he hasn't explained to us why he was keeping this stuff. this guy is a national security risk. you know who is loving all of this? you know who is laughing right now? is our adversaries -- the chinese government, the russian governments are reveling in the fact that the -- one of the leaders of, you know, the primary candidate in the

republican party has so much baggage and so much issue and he is more worried about not dying in prison than he is in doing what is right for the country. >> is that hypocritical for republicans to chant, lock her up when it comes to hillary clinton and also say in this case when it comes to trump that he shouldn't even be charged or scrutinized in any way because he is a candidate for the presidency? >> of course it is hypocritical. anybody who is defending this behavior is complicit in eroding the trust and the faith that we have in the men and women that are trying to protect us. >> you were involved with the clinton, looking into some of these issues when it comes to clinton. in your assessment, which is worse? what trump is alleged to have done here or what you investigated when it came to clinton? >> the volume of the classified documents, the different locations that they came from,

the actual attempts to erase evidence, to get people to lie, to try to force your lawyers to lie, this is a level of criminality that i don't think we've seen before except maybe, maybe richard nixon. this is another reason why donald trump should not be president and we need to make sure we do everything to prevent him being the next president of the united states. >> one of the documents we've been discussing for a little while now is the one that he had in bedminster. he was waving it around. it was an iran attack plan. we now than document was a classified as top-secret. he was charged in the superseding indictment for withholding that document. what does it tell you that now we know the classification level of that document, about the seriousness of what was contained in there? >> he is spitting in the face of

all the sons and daughters and spouses and brothers and sisters who wear a uniform to protect our nation. he is spitting in the face of all the people in dark alleys trying to keep the homeland safe. he is spitting in the face of the people willing to put themselves in harm's way in order to ensure the united states of america stays the greatest country on the planet. why would you wave this around to prove you are some cool guy or tough guy with someone? how many other people has he done that with that we don't know of? how many other people had access to these documents that we may not know of? we know the chinese government, the russian government is interested in knowing these secrets. we know they are running ops against people close to important former elected officials. donald trump hasn't explained anything about how he was able to protect this information.

to me as someone who spent most of my adult life protecting this country, being connected with national security, putting myself in harm's way, working with people putting themselves in harm's way, this is disgusting that someone who thinks or who was a president of the united states is willing to do this. >> the last thing before you go, the trial for this case is set for frankly in the middle of the republican primary. should this case be tried and reach a conclusion before the 2024 election? >> i think that is up to our judicial branch on figuring out what is within the realm of doing this. the best thing that could happen is making sure that we beat donald trump in the primaries. people like me get on the debate stage, and people can help me going to hurd for america.com and making sure he is beaten

before this happens and it is up to the judicial branch to figure out when the actual trial happens. >> thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you. i want to bring in two more key voices now. cnn's senior political commentator adam kinzinger who served on the january 6th committee and also myles taylor a former trump dhs official who wrote anonymous an op-ed and is the author of a new book called "blow back." thank you both very much. congressman kinzinger, i want to start with you on this extraordinary superseding indictment that really adds a lot of meat to the bones about trump's role in leading an effort to obstruct this investigation. what did you make of the details that we learned tonight? >> here is the interesting thing. i know this is probably not why it was done this way but almost perfect that the former president came out and said i was just showing newspapers and clanthen it is like a

few weeks later like hey look. we have proof that is not the case and it is like yet another lie that the former president is caught in. i think what is very clear here is jack smith is taking this very seriously and going where the path leads and if i was donald trump and frankly i think donald trump is very afraid of what is going to come out of this and oust the january 6 and jack smith has shown he is going to pursue this to the ends of the earth. >> myles, you worked in this trump administration and you've said you've seen trump mishandle classified documents. what did you see? >> well, let me say one quick thing first to pick up on where adam was at on the iran revelations here. i want to be very, very clear. when this was happening during the trump administration, when there were conversations about the potential attack plans related to iran, i was on the staff at the department of homeland security.

i was read into some of the most sensitive programs in the entire federal government. even i was not allowed in the room to understand what was happening in those conversations. it was one of the most closely guarded things that happened during the entirety of the donald trump investigation. i remember there were even different names for what those meetings were when they were happening in that building and for donald trump to treat those discussions with the carelessness of a dirty kleenex is the type of thing that gets people thrown in prison not just for a few years but for the rest of their lives. this is the type of thing that puts soldiers, spies, and civilians in danger. it gets people killed. this is an absolutely damning superseding indictment and, yes, this is, abby as you know not a one off. this was a pattern of behavior. i will tell you we were responsible for advising him on the homeland security of the united states. >> i think we lost --

>> do you have me back? >> i think we have got you now. you can finish up, miles. >> there we go. sorry about that abby. i was just saying, look. we were his homeland security officials charged with helping him protect the united states and even we didn't know if we could trust the president with classified information because he shared secrets with our rivals and he showed reckless disregard for the handling of that information in the oval office in front of his own staff and in front of outsiders who did not have clearance to see that information. >> congressman kinzinger, even tonight republicans including some of trump's closest allies on capitol hill are defending him. that is probably not a surprise to you. but this superseding indictment really shows a willfulness here and also perhaps a disregard as well for people who worked for him. are you surprised to see this

continuing in your party, just an unwillingness to grapple with the real reality of what is being alleged? >> you know, i am surprised. like i guess i'm not surprised. there is no surprising but i am still surprised people don't have a red line. i always thought like growing up going to sunday school and even when i got into congress that like everybody has a red line of dishonesty and honesty they are unwilling to cross. there is always an art in that particularly in politics but there is always one thing. what i have come to learn is people do not fear, they don't fear death in life particularly in politics. they fear getting kicked out of their tribe. they feel having -- they fear more than anything their base turning against them and having to feel the kind of attacks both miles and i have had to field for a long time of good friends saying things like you are a traitor to your country. they don't have the courage to do that. i saw lee stefanik tonight come out in support of donald trump. i've seen everybody that

continues to do this. i don't understand it. i guess if you've given so much of your soul it is like sunken cost. you just have to keep on going. but it is sad to watch but i am surprised because i thought humanity in particular some of my colleagues had a red line. >> miles, as you talk in your new book, your book is really about what a next trump term could look like. when you see the conduct in this indictment that is alleged what does it make you think about how he governs, how he leads the people around him? what is your assessment about what we should take away from that? >> i think this superseding indictment tonight, abby, really firmly finishes the story of the fact that donald trump operates like a mob boss. we've seen with this indictment that he keeps his family close. he demands loyalty.

he intimidates the people around him. he uses intermediaries and cut outs to do his dirty work. he has other people bury the bodies for him or in this case birr bury the boxes for him and they call him the boss. a man like that is dangerous in any context in a cartel criminal ring but especially dangerous if he has his finger on the nuclear button. we've seen it. he is reckless with handling our nation's nuclear secrets and in "blow back" i talk about the department of homeland finally gave me the authorization to say publicly that because of donald trump we had to do the first real life preparations for the possibility of nuclear war against the homeland because we were so worried about his mishandling of the situation with north korea. i don't have confidence in the security and stability of our republic if he is returned to the white house, abby. >> adam, can i give you the last word here. do you have confidence the republican party will be able to

address this in the primary as you heard will hurd say that they have to if they're going to beat trump? >> no. i mean, certainly not. look, i am optimistic on the republican party long like 30 years from now, 20 years from now, maybe ten. they'll have to lose more and morays unfortunately i think. i hope there is an awakening. people like will hurd, chris christie, saying the truth. that is important out there. but donald trump is popular. it is a cult. i mean it is a cult and he is a cult leader and it is tough to break people from that spell but we have to keep trying. >> miles taylor and adam kinzinger, thank you both very much. up next, another major development today, trump's lawyers meeting with the special counsel as he awaits a third indictment involving efforts to overturn the election. hear what happened in that meeting and what it means for his legal peril. this is cnn's special live coverage. to reel in the fun and serve up great times.. to help you get readyy

your aspen dental team is celebebrating 25 years of affordable caree with an epic summer of smiles event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while these summer savings won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner

that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here... ...may put you in one of those... ...or even worse. too much? that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider

about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com this is remington. he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed him kibble it just seemed like the thing to do. but he was getting picky, and we started noticing some allergy symptoms. we heard about the farmer's dog and it was a complete transformation. his allergies were going away and he just had amazing energy. it's a no-brainer that remi should have the best nutritious and delicious food possible. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. ♪ get started at longlivedogs.com

that's why comcast business de is launching theal. mobile made free event. with our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. it's our best internet. powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99.9% reliability. plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities.

the new trump charges in the documents case is not the only big development tonight. his lawyers today meeting with jack smith, hoping to avoid or at least delay another criminal indictment. this one is over trump's efforts to overturn the election ahead of january 6th. the meeting ended without them getting any new guidance. i am back now with our panel. gene, it is not entirely surprising that they requested this meeting. that they were granted it at the 11th hour. but is jack smith really all that interested in what trump's lawyers have to say? >> well, when i was at the department of justice when attorneys came in to do a meeting i was always interested in what they said only because i was probably going to indict them and they were giving information on what their defense will be. jack smith was interested in what they had to say. did it change his mind? probably not. >> and, sarah, one of the big

arguments we've learned in our reporting that they made was that this would be tumultuous for the country and of course it would but i think the whole crux of the january 6th case comes down to how tumultuous the accusations are, that trump tried to subvert a free and fair election. how do you think that plays out on balance? >> it is really ironic to hear them say him being indicted over this would be tumultuous when i thought that january 6th was tumultuous. i thought trump denying the results of a free and fair election and refusing to this day is something horrible for our nation's democracy. what is really sad is that he has convinced his supporters this is the case. obviously not all of his supporters but a large swath of them believe this and they believe this was a fraudulent election when there's been no evidence of that. he has even tried to pursue this in court and failed time and time again. and so i think that if they have

the evidence to prove there was criminality for him trying to overturn the election and criminality with january 6th and the planning of that then he deserves to be held accountable. >> politically, sophia, january 6 is something a lot of republicans on the hill would love to forget. and some of them actually are trying to sort of completely rewrite that history. but no matter what if there are charges that stem from this, this country is going to relive all of the events leading up to it. >> a couple things. 147 members of congress republicans voted not to certify the election after the fact, right? >> yeah. >> that is a stunning thing right there. then it goes back to something sarah said, which is to this day donald j. trump will not acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election. from my standpoint jack smith

has no choice based on the evidence we've all seen but to go forward and indict. if he doesn't, tumultuous isn't even the right word to what happens to this country and democratic republic we have that we all love that we'd like to see stand another 250 years. this moment is going to be written about a hundred years from now. it really will be. we won't be here but your daughter will be here. she'll be old but she'll be here. and their generation will look at us and say, what were they thinking that they let this go on and didn't stop this man? it gets back to all the worst analogies of the worst figures in history that, you know, i won't name because i don't want to be incendiary but at the end of the day trump is a pretty dark figure and history is going to bear that out. >> this is certainly history playing itself out. if you are jack smith o. he is writing a lot of chapters of this history book. what we saw with the superseding indictment in the mar-a-lago case, does that give you a hint as to his tactics as a prosecutor, that he might put an indictment on the table in the

coming days or weeks and that might not be the end of the story for trump or for his associates? >> jack smith was head of public integrity unit in department of justice and that was a unit that looked at corruption among public officials. and from whey know, he is methodical, he is incredibly bright. he is tenacious. he is organized. he's fearless. if this indictment is returned either next week or the week after, i don't think it'll be this week, it is going to be no pun intended war and peace. it is going to be a hundred pages long. it is going to be a novel. i had a trial february and march of this year. i represented a young oathkeeper who is 21 years old. i can tell you the evidence that was presented at my trial for my client went all the way up to donald trump. if it is indicted, the one thing that could save him is that they

transfer the case out of the district of columbia. that is the only way he will avoid a conviction. >> very interesting. all of you, thank you very much. coming up next for us former congressman and former presidential candidate tim ryan joins me live on new charges against donald trump. plus we will talk about another questionable moment today involving an older lawmaker, senator dianne feinstein, confused during a vote. we'll discuss that next. office [typing] focusing on a little blue-sky thinking. i'll b be taking meetings with family and friends. and checking voicemail as my activities permit. i'll connect with you after reconnecting with me. ♪ get 1.9% apr for 36 months plus $1,500 purchase allowance on a 2023 xt5 and xt6 when you finance through cadillac financial. ♪

tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sound) he does. mom: we're having triplets. no, what does that mean? it means you're gonna need more tide. -see? -baby: ah. more likes? more tide. the more adorable? more tide. everyone's gonna need more tide.

♪ you're gonna need- more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. for your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. ♪ (laughing) nice smile, brad. nice! thanks? crest 3d white. 100% more stain removal. crest.

tens of thousands of customers wrote about carvana being easy in their five star reviews, including eric. the whole process was really simple and easy, and this is my third time selling to carvana. so i can practically do it from memory now. you just enter your license plate or your vin, answer a few questions. boom, you get a real offer. true story. it's still shocking how easy it was to sell my car to carvana. sell your car to carvana today. more on the breaking news of the charges against donald trump, joining me now to discuss this is former democratic congressman tim ryan. he's also the founder and chairman of we the people. so, congressman brian, this is

yet another chapter in the saga of indictments against donald trump. this time we are learning a lot more about his role in directing his aides to obstruct, it looks like, the federal investigation. what do you make of what we learned tonight? >> well, one of the reasons why i started we the people was to have a home for the exhausted majority of the people in the country and i think, watching your broadcast tonight, it is exhausting. donald trump clearly has been doing this for a long time, i don't think anybody is surprised, and he is a gangster. there is no doubt about it. it is pretty clear and we have to figure out, as a country, how to move on past this hate, anger, division that has come from his movement. we have got to figure out how to unify. but everything that you reported, i am not surprised about any of it. he would order around the

maintenance guy at mar-a-lago to move boxes of highly classified information. it is insanity that we are even dealing with this right now and there's anybody defending him, and clearly there still are a lot of people defending him on that side, with and his movement. but i think the vast majority of the people in the country arrayed move on from this. >> look, you're from the state of ohio, that is a pretty red state at this point and you probably have a lot of constituents, or former constituents of yours who believe this idea that trump is being treated unfairly. what do you think democrats should say to those voters who believe that this is unfair treatment, that trump is somehow being targeted here? >> i think that if you are in that camp or you think that this is a conspiracy, it's a deep state, it's unfair to donald trump, are you going to believe me or you're lying eyes? i don't think those people are ever going to vote for joe

biden or any democrat at any point, and they probably are not going to vote for will hurd, adam kinzinger, chris christie, or anybody else. the key is how do we get a majority of the people in these swing states to say that is unacceptable. i'm not talking about tax cyeducation policy, i am talking about democracy. what this one person would do if he got the levers of government again and how dangerous that would be. so those people i think are not going to be eligible for another option within the political system, so you've got to focus on the reasonable people in the middle, and i think in ohio and other places there are a lot of those people. >> there are lot of people on the right warning about what an indictment or conviction of trump could do to the country. do you worry about that at all? >> there will be some pushback, but i will tell you that the people from january six and the people involved in the insurrection, they have been

prosecuted. i think word is out that you could not do things like that. so i will think there will be some noise, i hope it is not a whole lot, but i hope it stays kind of isolated in certain areas on social media, but i hope that most reasonable people saying that he was trying to destroy the tapes at mar-a-lago, why would you do that if you are innocent? why do you have the maintenance guy moving the stuff around? why are you ordering people to fly? some of that stuff is so obvious but like you said there are gonna be people who will defend that until the end, there will be some, but i hope not a whole lot. i think it is a call for us, abby, as a country to wake up, to say we are coming up on the 250th anniversary of the united states of america. it's a miracle we made it this far, how are we going to make it another 250 years? it's going to be ensuring responsibility and reform, and

maybe this is an opportunity for us to wake up and do that. >> when you ran for the democratic nomination you talked about generational change and we've been talking a lot about the ages of politicians this week, whether it is biden, trump, or even senators like mitch mcconnell. he had a scary moment yesterday that really called into question his health. but today there is yet another questionable moment when 90-year-old senator diane feinstein had to be brought in to vote after she looked confused in a senate appropriations hearing. i want you to watch this moment. >> i note the presence of the form, we will vote to -- favorably subject. >> senator feinstein. >> you say i. >> pardon me? >> i would like to support a

yes vote on this. it provides 823 billion, that is an increase of 26 billion for the department of defense and it funds priorities submitted -- >> just say i. >> i. >> in a statement her okesperson says, quote, the senator was preoccupied and didn't realize the debate had just ended and a vote was called, she started to give a statement and was informed it is a vote and then she cast her vote. congressman, the constitution gives us a minimum age to serve in the house and senate, but do you think there should be a maximum age as well? >> well, i'm not sure. let me just to say. i think we have to separate our humanity here, where we see people in that situation that

is embarrassing and they are confused and we should have sympathy and compassion for those people. at the same time we're trying to run the most sophisticated democracy in the world with the challenges, and so the people of california or others should say that we need a generational change here. we saw different instances this week with mitch mcconnell and diane feinstein, it's not here to be brash or arrogant, but just to say what are we doing here in the united states? we have got to have capable people running for office and people who understand the complexities and problems. look, i've been in committee hearings with a lot of people, it is a free-for-all sometimes. and you don't always know what is going on, what a vote, what amendment, and so we should be overly judgmental in this particular instance, but just to say whether senator feinstein or mitch mcconnell,

we need generational change and there are a lot of young, dynamic people in this country that need to come into those leadership positions. so we should all question people who are not able to lead this country in the fashion that we needed to be led. the competition with china, the globalization, climate change, our education system, mental health, veteran suicides. there are so many complicated issues that we cannot have people who are confused. it is sad to say, and we should have humanity here and compassion, but at the same time we need generational change in our government. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having. we >> thank you for joining me tonight on cnn prime time, i'm abby phillips. cnn tonight with alison camerota starts right now. >> hey abby, great to see you. good evening everyone, i'm alison camerota welcome to cnn tonight. a new charges against donald trump in the classie