good evening, breaking, news just a short time ago special counsel's office announced new charges against the former president in the classified documents investigation. a month after indicting him on

dozens of felony counts. in addition to more obstruction charges, the special counsel was not charging former president with the willful retention of a national defense document. according to this indictment, it is the one he mentioned during a taped discussion two years ago it with biographers working for former white house chief of staff mark meadows. none of whom, all of the people in the, room again according to the indictment, none of them possessed a security clearance. here is that recording. >> these are bad sick people. >> that was your crew, you know, against you. >> it started right at -- >> when millie is talking about -- they were trying to do that before you were sworn in trying to overthrow -- >> with milley, let me see, that i will -- he said, that i wanted to attack iran. isn't it amazing to have a -- just look. this was him.

they presented me this. this is off the record. but they presented me this. this was him. this was a defense department and him. >> wow. >> this was him, this wasn't on, my me this was him. all sorts of stuff. pages long. wait a minute, let's see here, -- i just, isn't that amazing, just this totally wins my case you know. except, it is highly confidential and secretive look at this you -- >> hillary would print that out all the time. >> she would send it to anthony weiner. the pervert. by the way, isn't that incredible? i was just saying, we were talking about, it and he said, he wanted to attack iran -- >> he said, you did. >> this was done by the

military given to me. >> i think we can probably -- we will have to see. >> declassify. it cs president i could have declassified, it now i can't, this is -- >> isn't that interesting. it is so cool. look you probably almost didn't believe me but now you believe me. it is incredible, right? it brings some folks in police. >> so now if you remember, after that was released, and after the original, indictment former president came out and said that was not a classified, think it was bravado. now the indictment today, says that document was a quote, presentation considered military activity in a former country, unquote. also the former president showed, unquote, the document of the biographers in that, meeting what is particularly interesting about, it is after the indictment weeks ago, the former president made a number of -- claiming the papers he was

waiting around and had on his desk were not classified. he called it bravado to some reporters on his plane, with these new charges, it is now clear not only to jack smith know the former president was showing how side diamonds, they likely have the document. the new superseding indictment that was released today, also includes charges against a third, person carlos the olivia, right ahead of maintenance at almost trump's former stay at mar-a-lago. his indictment ties back to the new obstruction charges against the former -- president according to this, not just involve his violate to -- and other things, and also involve the head of maintenance there. in one instance, the indictment lays out a timeline in late june of last year, detailing how the government believes the now three indicted men -- and the former president who have all been indicted now in this classified documents, case that they try to delete security camera footage that had been requested just days

earlier by the department of justice in this investigation. if this is true, it is stunning, a former president of the united states trying to destroy evidence after being served a subpoena. i'm quoting now from the indictment he told someone listed as trump employee number for that their conversation should remain between the two of them. this occurring after the subpoena was already sent. he asked trump's point number four who was in the i.t. or security office, how many days the server retained footage from security camera images at mar-a-lago. trump employee for responded, he believed it was approximately 45 days. then the maintenance guy olivia told -- that the boss, unquote, won it the server deleted. trump employee number four responded, he would not i know how to do, that and he did not believe he would have the rights to do that. trump employee number four told olivia that he would have to reach out to another employee who is a supervisor security for trump business

organization. the head of maintenance then insisted to trump employee thats wanted the server deleted and asked what are we going to do? senior justice correspondent evan perez joins us. now evan, just from, that it seems like employee number four has talked to the department of justice. >> that's right, anderson. we understand that that employee was one of the many employees at mar-a-lago who had provided testimony either in interviews to the fbi, or the grand jury. we know that everybody who worked at mar-a-lago ended up becoming a witness in this investigation. to go through just again, what you just laid out, the former president is now being charged with three additional new charges. two of them have to do with the attempt that the prosecutors described as the part that you just read, had tried to delete the surveillance footage. one other charge relates to the willful retention of that document. this is the 32nd document previously he was charged

willful retaining, he was actually 31 documents were listed in the indictment, now there's a 32nd document listed. that is a document that is referred to in that recording, where he is referring to mark milley. we also see from the indictment a description of a effort that happens after all of this comes to a head, when the fyi comes, and does the church of mar-a-lago and retrieves more than 100 additional classified documents. what prosecutors described is that a few weeks after this, back out again in august of 2022, while it's not a who was one of the other ones who is charged here, he reaches out to another employee of mar-a-lago and says someone just wants to make sure that carlos de oliveira is good. this is a reference to carlos de oliveira. there is a reference then to a signal to where people describe that they believe carlos de oliveira is going to be loyal. at the end of this, prosecutors say that trump called carlos de oliveira and told him that trump will get carlos de oliveira an attorney.

this is what prosecutors are describing as one of the obstruction that the former president is doing. he is trying to make sure that carlos de oliveira his, been skies, stays on the team, having now the fact that the fbi is aware of all this. fbi is aware of all this. fbi is aware of all this. fbi is aware of all this. >> journalist, use long for threes as well. for those who conversations -- >> it's also an app that was banned by the white house, the trump white house, because they didn't want people talking on encrypted channels. leaking information to reporters. the >> fact that they have signaled communications, would seem to indicate that someone on that signals communication, headed some of that stuff over. >> that's, right we know that on that communication, was nauta, as well as another employee of mar-a-lago. and someone who's identified as a pack representative. previously, we reported that this woman is a political action committee representative, who was essential in trump's orbit. so, that we know, that person was also privy to some of these communications. we know, anderson, that the fbi seized they oliver's phone. we also know that we have the wasn't she the one who -- that allegedly showed another sensitive docket of to a map. >> the alleged in the allegation also showed her what is believed to be a classified. map. it appeared to picture of the former president believe just to be, -- who didn't have the clearance to see them. >> actually, you can make the argument needed care, he wanted to boast and show these diagrams,. not carriageway.

>> do we know, is this pack representative, she has testified before. the grandeur, as he not? >> my understanding, anderson, from our own reporting, she's testified probably at least half a dozen times. again, where we believe that this is in interviews. with the fbi. and not clear if you actually went to the grand jury. we know she's testified, or she's provided testimony previously. >> evan, stay with us. i'm joined by by national correspondent kristen holmes, the former president's bedminster golf club in new jersey. i don't know if team trump was expecting a different indictment today, or this, i don't doubt as the indictment they were expecting. what is your reaction been? >> yeah, this was a complete surprise for them, anderson. remember, we were all focused on january 6th, they had that meeting with his lawyers earlier today and the department of justice. then it was essentially radio silence. i've been talking to a number of trump lawyers and advisers, who said there is almost eerily silent. they were waiting for something to drop. that's something, they believe, was related to january 6th, the 2020 election. not related to the mar-a-lago documents case. just moments ago, we heard from

the former president, he gave an interview where he reacted to these new charges. this is what he said, he said, its election interference at the highest level. they're harassing my company, they're harassing my family, and by far at least important level, their harassing me. then he says the charges are ridiculous, they know it better than anyone. anderson, i do want to mention, he also says he hopes the republican party will do something about it. trump tomorrow is going to be in iowa, standing alongside a number of these other candidates. he's running an election, he's running a campaign, with these legal battles looming over him. no, it seems as though it's going to, once again, suck up all the oxygen in the room, in this 2024 presidential primary

campaign. that's what we believe, you know, these candidates will be asked about on the trail. really, after take a step back to remember just how unprecedented the situation is. the fact that he is in his third presidential run, at a time when he's facing multiple charges, multiple indictments, and they still expect to get at least another indictment, possibly to, if you include january 6th, that would happen in fulton county, georgia. this is the time in which it is really unprecedented. but the more we talk to voters, it is just unclear, this is going to impact him in that presidential race. of course, we're gonna keep an eye on the polls. as we have seen, every time

there are more charges, every time there's another indictment, his poll numbers go up, as does his fundraising. >> kirsten holmes, thank, you back with us evan perez. i'm joined by a legal analyst, elie honig. jessica, roth elliott williams, carrie cordero. also with, his former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe. a lot to get to, we're gonna focus on this, a lot, obviously. elie, i mean, this is an extraordinary document that was released today. the timeline of these alleged crimes, when it is, if, not hour by hour, day after day, it paints a very clear picture of communications, between these three now alleged coconspirators. >> it really does, anderson. john donny trump is now in way worse position that he was two hours ago. the big headline to, me they had the documents. that was the single most important mystery from the first indictment. that scene at bedminster, donald trump is out of the white house, he's talking about this very sensitive documents, showing -- >> that just happens to be,

there by the. way >> oh, look at this. >> if you shuffling papers, and one of the big questions is, is he actually showing them a classified document. he has since denied that, to fox news, he went on there any said, there was no document. >> yet again, an example of the former president putting his foot in his mouth, by talking about an ongoing investigation, an ongoing case. >> in a way that can be used against him. in court, you can play that clip of him telling fox, there was no document. >> let's. let's just toss to that. >> there was no document. that was a massive amount of papers, everything else, talking about a reneged or things. and it may have been held, up it may not. that was not a document. i didn't have any document, per se. there was nothing to declassify. these were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.

>> according to prosecutors, that is the face of a lawyer. he saying it with his, following his brow, looking intense. according to prosecutors, that is what he looks like when he is lying. >> he says, in that clip, -- one >> of the many ways you look for these lines. he >> says in that clip, that was not a document. guess what? that was a document. he is showing a classified war plan to those journalists, to those rioters. and his country club. the >> government has that dog. >> they have that, documents so damaging, they have the document. they've donald trump's lies that we just saw. all of that is in play. >> presumably, they have the testimony of the witnesses to whom he showed the document. we're gonna shore up that was in fact what was happening. >> it would seem impossible to imagine, given the number of people in that room. and the vulnerability of those people in that, through some of them were not cooperating. >> well i would imagine they are cooperating. that they perhaps already

testified before the grand jury. i don't, i'm spoken to the prosecutors. the fact that there is the recording of that encounter, makes it a very strong charge, if they now have the document. it's going to be easily understandable to a jury, because now this is not just him holding on to information at his residence, post presidency, this is him actually disclosing it to people. and it's on tape. >> quick word about evidence. audio recordings, as evidence, are incredibly evocative and powerful. people hear them, they bring in the room, you hear the papers wrestling. it's a powerful thing. prior to today, it wasn't quite evidence that may have been shown a trial. now it is actually quite relevant evidence that a jury is going to hear. they're going to hear the president's voice, in fact, if

prosecutors have that document, that could be quite devastating. anderson, you know there's two competing things going on here, as a matter of evidence, what this indictment presents about donald trump is quite devastating. point by point, laying out number one, the number knowledge of criminality on the part of both the president and the people around him. cut some statements such as, keep this conversation between us. let's talk about weather surveillance -- >> just in the timeline, it's incredible. june 3rd, fbi agents at mar-a-lago collect documents. june's 22nd, the doj emails -- for the business organization, a draft of a grand jury subpoena. requiring the production of security camera footage, which they, the doj learned about, with it when they were there on june 3rd. the very next day, trump called the oliveira, the head of

maintenance, a man who, i'm sure he knew, but i doubt spent a lot of time talking with over the years. they spoke for approximately 24 minutes. the day after they get the subpoena, the following day, another call from the department of justice about. the same day, a trump attorney spoke with trump regarding the subpoena, now to get a text message from a coworker, indicating trump wants to see walt nauta. walt nauta russia's back to mar-a-lago, meets with oliver. it's all here. >> any prosecutors never tried an obstruction of justice case, salivating at this. the timeline of, again, knowledge of an investigation and delivered attempts to try to obstruct. now, to be clear, let's put something out there. this case is not getting tried in may of next year. it's scheduled at present to go to trial in may. but, now with a more complicated indictment, with more defendants, this is going to take a long time to litigate,

and get to that point. that said, it's really devastating, powerful evidence. >> carrie cordero, honoring, your thoughts on this. >> well, a few different things, anderson. one thing that stands out to, me the indictment points out, again, the grand jury opened its investigation into this case in april 26th, 2022. so, what we're seeing now, the result of 15 months of investigation. and the fact there are so many people have testified before this grand jury. this goes back to some of evans reporting at the top of the hour. where there is so many individuals who have gone under oath. different then the video of the former president, that we showed a few minutes ago. which is just on television. but there are so many individuals with knowledge of all the different events that transpired, people who potentially maybe had criminal culpability or exposure, at least themselves, to

individuals who had firsthand all itch. and so many of those individuals with knowledge of different aspects of the way that these documents were handled. in the way that the former president, and those around him, appear to have obstructed this investigation took place. so, what we're seeing, just more and more of that evidence, and that extensive investigation, and that so many people who have testified before the grand jury is now becoming more apparent. >> andrew, this new indictment details how the former president and his employees allegedly conspired to keep classified documents, and allegedly, attempted to delete surveillance footage at mar-a-lago. it's extraordinary to, me i guess i don't know why obese are prized by this, but that one of the most powerful or formerly the most powerful men on the planet, the former president the united states, would reach down to the lowest level employees he has, and involve them in a criminal conspiracy, which of the government is correct, henry like destroy the rest of their lives. not just with time served, just

involving them in this mission. it's incredible to me. >> it is incredible. it also totally believable. this is someone who we know is consumed with his own success his own survival. to the extent that he completely disregards the health and welfare and well-being of everyone around him, including loyal employees who are willing to allegedly commit crimes on his behalf. it should also point out, anderson, that this particular crime, and the way it involves trump with his hands on the very mechanism of destroying evidence that's been subpoenaed by the grand jury, sure, it's an additional count, and it's a serious thing. and it brings the prospect of additional criminal liability. it also frames him in such an incredibly negative light. it raises the question of, why would you go to these lengths? why would you rope in all these

other people to destroy evidence? other than the fact that it shows his guilty knowledge. he is destroying evidence, he's trying to keep evident away from the grand jury, he knows he's done the wrong thing. and that's a cover-up. it's an incredibly damaging picture that it paints for the jury. as they grapple with issues of, like, why would a former president do the sort of things. now we see, elise t cell occasions, exactly how he did it, and why he did it. >> also, to your point, andrew, they go through, in this indictment, all the various ways that previously we knew the former, according to the government, the president had attempted to do this, suggesting to his attorney, oh, just pluck out anything that's not good that you find, and make it disappear. telling people, oh, that attorney in the past, he did his client right because he said, he was the one who is guilty of this. suggesting, where's my roy cohen essentially. there are plenty of examples

prior to this, superseding indictment, in which they are detailing all the ways he suggesting criminality of other people. >> and no question. those examples, he's a little bit more removed. >> destroying the tapes. it's so obvious. >> it's so obvious. he's no longer just sitting back and pulling the puppet strings, or suggesting to his attorney, you know, illegal things to do. he's actually reaching, out having a 24-minute phone conversation with the head of maintenance at mar-a-lago. and then, undoubtedly, and emanating from his questions, you have all these pressure -filled suggestions of how was carlos, is he okay, is he loyal? this is right out of a really low rent mob movie.

>> exactly. yeah, that was my thought. when i say he's, okay, houses are moshe well-being. if you get a standup guy, is it gonna stick by, me no matter what? >> this game is incredibly unimpressive. i mean, it's upsetting as it is, it appears they actually didn't delete the footage. so, it was just an attempt to do something, and a very sloppy way. and getting to what angela suggesting, this is suggesting consciousness of guilt. why would you destroy the videotape, if you had every right to retain these documents? and you had done nothing wrong? >> there was a subpoena saying, don't destroy any videotapes. >> it is the most direct form of obstruction of justice that alleged in this indictment. everything else is a little bit more subtle, as you are suggesting. >> also, to andrews point of it being, sorry, i don't have -- him hand it is the right word, your head of maintenance, to the i. t. guy in the security office, and have your head of made it have to ask, how long are the cameras, how long is footage recorded for? >> it's abbott in costello. it is the level of simplicity of this scheme, here if you want to call it that. in terms of how that played out.

to use andrew's term, a low rent mafia, or movie. to an extent. the other thing that's accurate, this is also low level individuals taking the fall, in effect, for someone much higher up on the on the chain. he's charged with crimes to. but these are individuals who, why is the former president calling, as you said anderson, the head of security, the head of maintenance at mar-a-lago. whose life is now significantly on upended. >> he's not calling donny junior or eric, or ivanka. he's calling the head of maintenance, and now, that guy has an attorney paid for by him. it's stunning to me. >> right, well, anderson, one of the things that stands out to me, certainly, the first indictment stops when the fbi comes and picks up the documents. again, in june, and then you

jump to the subsequent search of mar-a-lago in august. what this indictment, superseding indictment, fills in the blanks on, how essentially, the justice department prompted new crimes to be committed. the way they prosecutors are describing. by simply asking for the surveillance tapes. what happens after they ask for the surveillance tapes, it is a whole host of new activity, where trump and according to prosecutors, his codefendants, basically kick into action to find ways to try to hide things. what they're after when they ask for the surveillance tapes, they want to see about the movement of boxes. they want to see what's going on. and what happens next, according to this new document, is the commission of new crimes. which is the former president asking now to, and the oliveira, essentially, to try to delete the surveillance tapes. you see this often investigations. they certainly, andy mccabe talking about this, where sometimes the fbi is onto something. and they do something to try to see, take on the wire so to speak. that prompts the people that they're watching to commit new crimes that allows them to make

this case. you can tell, here, what happens as a result of some of this interaction, they're reaching out to additional people, who then become witnesses, and tell the fbi about. >> andrew, to that point, suddenly, once the trump folks are informed, don't destroy any tapes. there's all this scurrying around by the former president and deploying nauta to scurry back to mar-a-lago and talk to carlos de oliveira. >> the indictment reads like, you can almost sense the hysteria. the panic. that the arrival of the subpoena for the videotapes inspired. as you said, anderson, you had walt nauta, who immediately, his plans to travel with the president to illinois the next day get changed immediately. he's put on a plane that night. he goes back to mar-a-lago. he's immediately to mar-a-lago and coordinates with carlos de oliveira. you have carlos de oliveira walking around in the tunnels with a flashlight, trying to locate the surveillance cameras. they know they have a real problem now, because the government knows about the cameras, and there's going to be footage of people moving documents and boxes of documents in an effort to

conceal them. so, they embark upon, if you, know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. and that is exactly what seems to happen here. i should point out, also, employee for an employee five, i, mean these are people who are clearly providing substantial testimony to the government already. employee for, his conversation with carlos de oliveira, is laid out in the indictment. he has testified to that, that testimony is in the book, it will likely come up at trial. the very expensive efforts that the fbi has conducted here to interview everyone, associate with mar-a-lago, that work has paid off for them. they have uncovered some dip very damaging witnesses. >> what we really see here, anderson, obstruction, on top of obstruction. the first layer is moving these documents out, getting them away from a lawyer. keeping them from the grand jury. and they realize, oh boy, we were captured by the surveillance videos. and then they tried to tamper with delete this surveillance video. two different layers of obstruction. all of this bolsters the overall strength of this case. i'm really struck by the

substantive power of this case. because a lot of times in the federal case, your case, as elliott jessica know, will rise or fall on the testimony of one cooperating witness, who himself was a criminal. this case, based on the indictment is based, on texts, whatsapp messages, photos, audio recordings, and testimony from a lot of witnesses, who are lay witnesses. not themselves involved in criminality. that is a really tough case to be. >> everyone stay with us. i'm joined our democratic congressman, adam schiff. to manage the first impeachment against former president, was a member of the house select committee on january 6th. congressman schiff, your reaction tonight to this news, the former president is now facing additional charges, and with a third person involved. >> well, the evidence was already strong and the original indictment. in this superseding indictment, now you just see how much more evidence the special counsel has. there are evidently, cooperating witnesses.

there is surveillance footage of some of the figures in the superseding indictment, including the oliveira, meaning surreptitiously with others. some night meetings, some morning meetings. meetings in an audio cabinet. -- to discuss the plot to destroy the surveillance tapes. it just shows what incredible body of evidence the special counsel has. it also shows, just how much consciousness of guilt there is on the part of the president. the overlapping efforts to obstruct the investigation, if part of his earlier defense, which is he had the classify this information, or he had the right to declassify it. if any of that was true, of course, he wouldn't need to go to these extraordinary efforts to destroy evidence. so, it is i think very powerful, again, and shows just how much evidence there is. but also, i think it's gonna put enormous pressure on this newly-indicted the oliveira, to cooperate. as well as on nauta to cooperate. i would not be surprised to see one or both of them ultimately decide, it in their best interest to do so. >> by the way, on the notion of where him saying, all these things were declassified, he himself in the audio recording points out, this is a classified document. he doesn't have the power to declassify. it he himself stepped on his own lies, which were the initial response to these charges, and the search warrant. you mentioned carlos de oliveira, who told another trump employee, that they wanted the server deleted, and attempted to do that. how problematic do you think that is for the former president? >> i think it's very problematic. that you have yet another person implicated, someone who apparently had a direct conversation with the nd finding out that he' l cou ag it january 6th investigation, where you had the use of trump paid for council, essentially, trying to count sole witnesses not to share everything they knew. and this is like a mob strategy. but i think it's gonna be very

unsuccessful here. because there is such a strong body of evidence. >> in an interview tonight, the new former president called the -- election interference. if i were leading by biden by a, lot and wasn't republican amani, it wouldn't be happening. for accuracy sake, the latest national poll out this morning from marquette law school has trump and biden tied at 50% among registered voters. i'm wondering, what do you make of his latest comments? do you have any doubt that the reason he's running is because of these charges? that he believes to be his only hope? >> you know, i've always thought a big part of his running again for president was

to stay one step ahead of the jailer. that is certainly a much more pressing reason now. i also think it's about money. running for president has been a lucrative proposition for him. so, i think in part, it's about money. but i certainly, the legal jeopardy he faces, all of the efforts his team is making will make to delay the trial, until after the election, in the hope that if he gets elected, he can use the power of the presidency to make it all go away. and then, you know, there is

this recurrent theme in donald trump of projecting onto others what he himself tries to do. this is the man who, more than anyone else in the history, tried essentially to interfere in an election.

to overturn an election. now, he's accusing joe biden of that. so, very consistent, he's playing the victim, blaming others. when you can see, in this indictment, again, how it's the presidents own conduct that, time after time, gets him to trouble of the law. sadly two, it has been a system that has failed to hold him accountable. that has encouraged his repeated lawbreaking. >> congressman schiff, thank you. appreciate it.

>> thank you. >> more on the breaking news on the mar-a-lago documents case, what we've learned about the meeting today to the former president's lawyers and special counsel jack smith. as another indictment, possibly looms in the special counsel's 2020 election case. that's what the meeting was about today. ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go... ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ don't goooooo! ♪ ( ♪ ) ♪ don't go away ♪ get a free storage upgrade when you pre-order at t-mobile. ♪ please don't go ♪

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the new charges against the former president in the classified documents case came hours after a mysterious meeting between the former president and his defense lawyers and special counsel jack smith. involving his 2020 election investigation. possible indictment could be announced soon, in that case, cnn's paula reid joins us now with more. what do you know about what happened behind closed doors at this meeting today? >> anderson, it was a busy day for the special counsel. on the january 6th probe, we saw the grand jury that here's evidence in that case, was in today. we spotted several of the key prosecutors at the courthouse. by the end of the day, no indictment was returned. arguably, the biggest development of the day happened a few blocks away. where trump's defense attorneys met with special counsel prosecutors.

we're told that they requested this meeting with the special counsel team. as we, know they're quiet has received a target letter. informing him that he is a target of this investigation, he was also offered, as we, know an invitation, to appear before that grand jury. he declined invitation. it's notable, his lawyers are meeting with prosecutors. all of these things suggest that an indictment is imminent. at this point, anderson, it's unclear if the grand jury will be returning tomorrow. they typically meet on tuesdays and thursdays, that schedule, it can be amended to suit the needs of prosecutors or the court. some people have questioned whether an indictment would come this soon. we know from our reporting, the special counsel has at least three more witness interviews scheduled over the next four or five weeks. so people have questioned whether they would file charges before completing those witness interviews. but we saw today, in florida, they can absolutely file some charges, and then continue gathering evidence and file additional charges if needed. so, it does appear again, an indictment in the january 6th

case is likely coming soon. how soon? unclear. >> cnn as previously reported the former president argued against a meeting between his legal team and the special counsel. because he believed an indictment was inevitable. is it clear what changed his mind? >> look, it's a good thing to do. it least show up, if for no other reason, then on appeal you can say, look, we met with them. we try to change their minds. but we're told that the trump legal team didn't really expect that they could change the trajectory of this investigation. they hoped, at the very minimum, they could delay this. of course, delay, that is trump's love language, when it comes to all kinds of legal problems. if he is charged here, anderson, we know that will continue to be a strategy. on a day here, a week there, that adds up. it is likely that their goal here was to delay, that is something that the boss would likely be amenable to. >> paula, stay with us. i want to bring back our panel, andrew, i want to start with you. you've been a part of these

kind of meetings before, both as part of the doj, when you are with them at the fbi, and someone who's investigated by the doj. what can you tell us about what these meetings are like? >> anderson, these meetings are really not so much about conversation or debate between the two sides, as it's really more of an opportunity for the defense team to come in and make a presentation. typically, they will make, or maybe legal arguments about attacking the strength of the case, arguments as to why the case should be brought. or make general kind of interest of justice sort of arguments, like it wouldn't be fair, or proper, to bring a case under the circumstances. doj, typically, says nothing. they let the defense team make their presentation. at the end of it they say, thank you very much for coming in. we'll continue what you told us. we'll get back to with our decision as to what we're gonna do at some point in the future. not surprising to me at all, the defense team left without any real sense of whether or not the indictment would be forthcoming, or when that might happen. >> belly, cnn is reporting that the former president, his attorneys, didn't argue the facts of the case. and it was a relatively short meeting. does that tell you anything?

>> it tells me that they're just try to make a record here. you're not going to convince prosecutors not to charge without any facts. you're not going to convince prosecutors not to charge just making some sort of emotional plea. i think we have to call out, donald trump does this over and over again, we have to call it out over and over again, with a language putting out there on social media saying, it's dangerous, it whatever people apart. that is dangerous. that is irresponsible. we know that people respond to donald trump's language. all we can do is continue to call it out. these meetings, and he's exactly, right prosecutors sit back. give us what you got. very, very rarely, can you change prosecutors mind. without any facts, i don't see it. >> also, in that statement, he

not only, it's that sort of call to action, it's really a warning that the public saying, look, this might put the country apart. i think it's a wink nod to his supporters. it also says, i was relying on the advice of my attorneys, saying that i got information from attorneys. i think that's a preview of the defense you're likely to see from, him all these people around me, and my time as president, telling me all of these things. i was just doing my best, i'm just a simple country lawyer. all these people tell me what to do. i think that's what they'll present at trial. >> jessica, do you think this meeting has any impact on the timing of an indictment? >> i don't, realistically. this struck me as a pro forma meaning, so short. i think it only because the robust presentation of the facts of the law in one hour. it may have been an effort to by just a little bit more time, they're thinking being that, the department just have to at least, in good faith, evaluate the arguments in the presentation that was made. so it'll be unsealed to indict today. likely, if jack smith didn't seek the indictment today, he was not planning to seek the indictment today, regardless of

the meeting. it's more likely that probably just even more evidence to present to the grand jury, or gonna take more time, for the prosecutors to go through the drafting indictment, with the grand jurors. i imagine this is going to be a voluminous speaking indictment, just simply to go through what the allegations are, what the grandeur, and talk to them about what the law is, on the charges. it's going to take a considerable amount of time. my understanding is, there were no witnesses seem going into the grand jury today, it was just the prosecutors in the grand jurors. it's adjusts to me it could've been a time used, to actually present the proposed indictment. so, i suspect, if it's not already a true bill, and they don't has already been voted by the grand jury by the end of their session today, perhaps they'll be called back tomorrow, or perhaps tuesday. >> carey, i want to go back to the indictment that we did get today in the documents case, the new charges. given new charges, given a new person involved in this, carlos de oliveira, does that affect the timeline? judge cannon said may timeframe for a trial. do you think the movement on this today, the new charges, that push that back automatically? >> i think as a practical matter, it certainly can. and from the perspective of the

defendants, they certainly will use it as an argument to delay. you have a new defendant in place, who's going to need a lawyer. who's gonna be clearances. there's one new documents. that doesn't add a lot to the complexity that the classified information ads in this particular case. i certainly think it gives the defense arguments to make to delay it further. oh, we have new charges. that complicates the case. we should delay it even further. from the former presidents perspective, he wants to delay, he would want to delay this as soon as possible. also, anderson, i just want to emphasize how different these two cases and investigations

are. we are going back and forth between the classified documents case, where there's news superseding indictments, and that potential indictment in the january six cases. these are really, really different investigations. the classified documents case, so much of it is obstruction. that is obstruction of justice. those types of cases are things that the justice department actually brings routinely, classified documents cases aren't so common. the justice department has of auto experiences with them. so, it's not a very complex case, even though there's national security information involved, and that at complexity to it. the nature of the january 6th investigation is historic. and it's so different. the type of allegations that the justice department would, i think, presumably be making,

that there was a conspiracy to overturn the election, and has parts to it that spin entire different areas of the country, from state election officials to state legislatures, two attorneys who are advising the former president while he was president. they're just so many different pieces to it. the nature of it is so unique and historic. that the arguments that will be made, potentially, by the justice department and the future defenses, are just so unique and different. >> paula, we were just talking about the one new document. what do you know about it? >> incredibly significant, anderson, of course, cnn broke the story that former president trump was on a recording, seeming like he was showing

people who did not have security clearances, a classified document. he has subsequently insisted, he didn't have a document. he just had a pile of papers. some of his representatives told cnn, there was no documents. they want to look for this alleged document, they never found it. here, the special counsel is saying, it does exist, and now it's been added to the classified materials that he is charged with mishandling. it is also, i will note, a top secret document. really underscores the significance of that recording. now, prosecutors will be able to put his own words on that tape. and then show, the jury, a potential jury, this is the document that he was showing to people at his mar-a-lago club. bragging, even acknowledging, it was classified. then he could not declassify it.

that's a really significant, buttoning up. something that we saw in the first indictment. >> paula, about that document. is it known? do you know if prosecutors had that document all along? and just didn't mention it in the first, when the former president was indicted initially? in the documents case? and then the former president went out and said, oh, there was no document, and then they felt compelled to mention it? or did it come subsequently a new testimony? >> great question, anderson. something we're gonna be asking our sources. the first question, how di d you get it? the trump legal team has said, after they received a subpoena, asking them for everything related to general milley, that they were never able to find that specific document. they tell us, they did not

provided to investigators. so, the question is, well, was it found in mar-a-lago? did it travel from new jersey down to florida? is there some other way, did they go back to the intelligence community? at this point, unclear how they eventually obtained it. and when they obtained the specific information. as i said, it's notable that it wasn't in the first indictment, and it's been something that publicly, the former president and his legal team, have made statements that appear to be untrue. >> if it was something they obtained from the intelligence community, or intelligence agency, they would then have to confirm that the documentary from the intelligence agency was the document that the former president is holding up in that room. >> exactly. they have several ways to do that. he was in a room with at least four other people. we know two of his close aides, who we spoke in the special counsel investigators, and also to people working on an autobiography for former white house chief of staff, mark meadows. unclear if they've spoken with investigators. we know that margot martin, one of his closest aides, who was the one knowingly recording this conversation, she was in there. she would likely be asked about it. coming agaiexol d the new york times calls it oppenhe staggering.ificent. it's utterly enthralling and one of the best movies of the century.

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former president trump facing new charges in the mar-a-lago documents case, including two additional count of obstruction, one county is accused of willfully retaining a top secret document about iran attack plans. former presidents once again calling an election interference at the highest level. his term. on capitol hill tonight, republican senator roger marshall sidestepped questions about from cnn's manu raju. take a look. >> this is the first i've heard of it. again, i'm locked in on andy able, that's where my mind is right now. i don't really think about it. >> are you concerned about his handling of classified information? >> i think to those questions before. that's all you want to talk about. there's other things going on, besides january 6th and donald trump in this country. >> the new charges against the former president come as he's neck a neck against president biden, in a new national poll, conducted earlier this month by marquette law school. each with 50%. i want to get perspective now from cnn senior political correspondent, david axelrod. a former secret visor to president obama. also former republican congressman, joe walsh. david, with a new charges, and the classified documents case, how do you see it impacting the campaign for the former president? >> you know, i have to see evidence, which i haven't seen so far, that it is going to influence it, at least in a negative way. that construct that you read of his, he has drilled it in again

and again and again, each of these indictments is an effort on the part of the deep state. his political enemies in the biden administration to stop him from running and to pry people of their voice. to his supporters, that's been a compelling argument. right now, ever since these indictments started, he's actually climbed in the polls. anderson, i need to see some evidence that this is going to be somehow different than that. >> congressman, you republican senator, roger, marshall sidestepped questions about the new charges. saying he hadn't even heard. trump ally, and member of the gop leadership congresswoman elise stefanik, is railing against the new charges tonight, saying our justice system is broken. do you think the cake is already baked with the majority of congressional republicans on this one? >> anderson, absolutely. david right. i talked to trump voters every single day. he's built this wall around himself, among his supporters, he's a victim. he's a victim, as david said, of the deep state. this is all a witch hunt. and his supporters, and voters, believe that. anderson, every new charge, look, trump deserves every new charge, and every new indictment. because he's a criminal. no one's above the law. but legally, i mean, politically, anderson, every new charge, and every new indictment strengthens donald trump within the republican party, within the base, because

they see this, they really do see this, as a piling on and a witch hunt. he's convinced them of that. >> david, it's so interesting how, just the hypocrisy on, there's a lot hypocrisy on all sides. but if this was president obama having done this, the response would be completely different by republicans? >> yeah, i mean, there's no doubt about that. also true that trump's whole political project is built around this idea that he is their tribune against this deep state. against washington. and the entrenched relive role bureaucracy, and so on. so, yes, it would be entirely different. yes, they would be coming after -- look, i don't know what's gonna happen with these congressional investigations against president biden. so far, they rolled out a bunch of candidates, and they lit the fuse, and a flag that says, pop comes out. it turns out to be less than they advertised. so, they would certainly go after a president for this. i'm not sure another president, or another presidential candidate, would survive this. it's donald trump particular fertile genius to build a turn these things to his advantage. >> congressman, do you see the a point where any of these other presidential republican

rivals start to get more aggressive? or start to just say, make a different argument against the former president? >> no. anderson, i think they're on a road that they're not gonna get off of. desantis, pence, haley, scott. none of them are actually trying to beat trump. they're just waiting. they're waiting for, as we've said before, a heart attack, whether justices system to take trump out. they want to be there standing. none of them, trump's gonna yell, deep state in which hunt, when this next indictment comes down. and if you're a republican candidate for president, and you want any shot at the nomination, you have to echo trump. so, that's what they'll do. >> david, in a new national -- >> go ahead, go ahead. >> a revenue thing interesting more. >> [laughter] >> this discussion we have every time. the same thing. >> it's the same thing, except a changes in that, rhonda santas, for example, was within 15 points of trump when he was a notion and people's heads in the fall, that he could be the guy that could take him out. when he became a real candidate, he's done nothing but falling. part of it is because his whole scheme, and i think it's an ill-conceived one, he'll just be trumpeter than trump, and when trump fails, when trump falls, when he implodes, he can pick up the pieces. well, trump's not imploding with the republican base. desantis continues to fall. we've seen these marquette numbers, but on the average, he's dropped into the teens. he's closer to third place than

first place. much closer to third place than first place. and he continues to make mistakes, this ridiculous suggestion today that he might make robert f. kennedy the purveyor of these ridiculous, ludicrous, dangerous conspiracy theories about pharmaceuticals and about diseases. he might make him ahead of the fda. or head of the cdc. this is a guy who purports to be a serious candidate for president of the united states. donald trump could not be luckier than to have an opponent like that. >> david, i was right to let you speak and not have asked the question. david axelrod, thank, you joe walsh as well. appreciate it. the news continues, that it for, us the source of can colin starts now.

>> tonight, straight from the source. new charges against donald trump, and a new codefendant. prosecutors say about how the boss wanted surveillance video destroyed, and why the audio of um