my blood pressure is borderline. garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps maintain healthy blood pressure with a custom blend of ingredients. i'm taking charge, with garlique. tonight the u.s. secret service is conducting a sweep of the federal courthouse here in washington. typical for what they do when someone like a former president is going to be arraigned tomorrow. taking those precautions. that comes as law enforcement tells cnn they're also monitoring for potential threats, protests, and online chatter. i should note that where trump is going to be tomorrow for this arraignment, which we are told is going to happen at 4:00 p.m. eastern is the same courthouse in washington where you've seen so many of the january 6th defendants prosecutes.

of course, thank you for joining us. cnn prime time with laura coates starts right now. wow, that was a really fascinating interview. we've all been leaning in to say what bill barr had to say. a lot of wanting to see what he had to say. thank you for joining us here in washington, d.c. it's a capitol on high alert tonight? why? because the nation is bracing for the arrest and arraignment of a former president. should i say again the third time in three months. he will appear in court tomorrow as expected, and now his third indictment on charges of trying to overturn an election. and we learned on cnn the secret service has already done a walk through of the courthouse and law enforcement is even monitoring any potential threats. meantime, everyone, we're getting an early look at what his potential defense strategy might be including what's

called -- this is not my term -- but the dilution defense, that he actually believed his own lies. plus the suggestion he's about to throw his legal advisers under the bus. i can't imagine that happening. and just moments ago trump's former attorney general bill barr spoke to cnn with his very first reaction to this new indictment. >> at first i wasn't sure, but i've come to believe that he knew well he'd lost the election. what i think is important is the government has assumed the burden of proving that. the government in their indictment takes the position that he had actual knowledge that he had lost the election and the election wasn't stolen through fraud. and they're going to have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. >> which is a high bar, of course. >> that's a high bar. now, that leads me to believe that they -- we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this. >> you think jack smith has more? >> oh, yeah, some -- i would believe he has a lot more. >> well, in the case of this

magnitude one would assume he would. he also poured cold-water on the first amendment defense that some trump allies have already been floating including i might add trump's own lawyer. >> as the indictment says, you know, he -- they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants. he can even lie. he can even tell people that the election was -- was stolen when he knew better. but that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. all conspiracies involve speech, and all fraud involves speech. so, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. >> just because you've said something does not mean that you are totally immunized and inoculated from ever being held liable for it. we'll talk about those comments in just a few moments, but i've

got an amazing group of legal experts standing by and dissect and walk through all of this. but first i want to begin with cnn's foreign affairs correspondent paula reid. paula, bill barr setup today's developments, so i want to know what do we now know tonight about what the plan is for trump to build a defense? >> we're starting to see the broad contours of a legal defense here, and they're really trying to hit on this idea of infringing on his freedom of speech and saying that here the government has allegedly criminalized political speech. but what that fails to take into consideration is the fact the indictment outlines exactly how this went so much further than just words and lays out the specific series of alleged actions the former president took. in the alternative they're also arguing this good faithful leap, that the former president really believed that the election had been stolen. but prosecutors were one step ahead of him laying out in the indictment multiple instances where he either admitted that he

did lose or that he had officials telling him that, in fact, there was no basis for these claims. >> paula, stick around. we need your insight tonight. and right now also i'm joined by david aaron, a former federal prosecutor, sarah nelson, a cnn contributor and also former house republican investigative committee council. and -- johnson is also here. and a former federal prosecutor as well. in other words, we've got us a panel, and i'm glad you're all here because the number one question i keep getting including at the grocery store today is what's up with this whole free speech discussion, the political speech notion? is it true as long as trump was saying something about his views on the election that he's protected? what do you think? >> well, yes and no. the attorney general, the former attorney general said it best. you can have free speech, you can say what you think, you can

even lie, but you can't engage in a conspiracy to commit fraud and do other things that are crimes. that's the line that jack smith is going to have to walk. >> i mean the indictment -- and that's a great point because, first of all, we already have laws that say if you say certain things you're going to be liable. if i were to try to hire a hit person with my actual words, because i said it i'm not protected. defamation is part of it, threats a great example of it. why is this having legs? is it because people believe it's so nuanced and political, and can he criticize people? >> i assume it's people who haven't read through the indictment and seen all the actions that are being alleged that former president trump actually took to bring about his plan to overturn the election results. i mean if you look through what is being alleged, there are actually concrete steps like trying to line up the slate of fake electors. so there's certainly things beyond just words here in this indictment.

>> so it's the fact the words are part of the action. it's not like you're saying -- and i think maybe he's trying to avoid a first amendment defense in many respects. lays out the defense he's got every right and i'm paraphrasing here to say these things. the action you're talking about that, look, i'm putting these words in here to show you it's part of the overall conspiracy. >> i think you're absolutely right. the special counsel saw this might happen, because it's in some of the first pages where he lays out the fact donald trump had every right to talk about and even to lie about what he believed took place in the election. >> what do you think? >> every time, you know, sort of significant legal news pops around trump, an indictment or some investigation, there's always a few days where they're like test driving these really bad arguments. and then they eventually settle on one or two that may carry them through. we're in sort of the test driving phase. i think this is a crazy argument because i used to prosecute financial fraud cases.

they're all about speech. when someone calls you on your phone, you get a spam call, someone's trying to get your icloud credentials or get you to turn over your credit card, the fact they're speaking to you is not protected by the first amendment. it's a crime. >> they're saying it's political. this is obviously a campaign. one of the things the lawyer said yesterday was -- this is a forward thinking about what aboutism. it was what if one day joe biden says something you don't agree with, is that going to be criminalized? this is different. >> it is. i do think the political character of the peach is what's giving this theory the legs that it has. i also think it's a theory probably more of the public than at a judge or jury. and a lot of the public as well written and concise as it is a lot of people aren't going to read it, they're just going to hear about it. i think it will lead a lot of people to attach that first

amendment idea at least temporarily. >> political in nature you don't have to -- all i'm going to say was political in nature meaning it's coming from a politician's mouth? >> correct, and it's tied to a political process. doesn't make it any less fraudulent or dangerous. because it's not made in the course of a financial fraud. >> i think for the public we should define what is political speech and why it's different from regular speech. political speech is probably and correct me if it's the most protected and one we want to guard because you're saying something that has to do with an election or your opinion, or your assessment, or analysis or how you feel about it. he did that for sure, but he crossed the line. yes, he can say what he wants but there's a line of criminality that none of us can cross with our words.

>> i'm hearing some amen nodding over here. >> it's not just words. the words were intended to produce actions, right, and i think calling this political speech i understand that. and there are real first amendment issues surrounding criminalizing certain types of speech. i don't want to be flippant about it, but the first amendment is designed to promote truthful public debate, right? and so it's for that reason the first amendment does not protect fraud, right? and yes, it's political speech. but in this instance it's not just like talking about his position on a bill or something, right? we're talking about speech aimed at overturning an election. we're talking about the most dangerous quote-unquote political speech, subverting our political process. they're throwing things against the wall in my estimation. >> i'll say the word allegedly to cover for all the things justin said. let me play for a second what

bill barr had to say in terms of how he felt about jack smith's integrity. listen to this. >> he's an aggressive prosecutor. he's the kind of prosecutor in my view that if he thinks someone's committed a crime, he hones in on it and really goes to try to make that case. there's no question he's -- he's aggressive. but i do not think that he's a partisan actor, he, personally. >> and you think he's treated trump fairly here? >> i don't know he's treated -- >> from what you've observed, i guess. >> if from what i've observed. i don't know him, but i know a lot of republican lawyers who have worked with him over the years, and they told me he's a tough hard-nosed prosecutor but he's not a partisan prosecutor. >> i mean that seems to belie some of what we're going to be hearing of this language of the weaponization of government, and i think the word was deranged trump used on truth social. >> one of the nicer words.

>> one of the nicer words, right, which is saying something. but, i mean, this idea the partisanship of a prosecutor, it's always called into question whether they have some sort of axe to grind. we hear that all the time. is there evidence to support this view? >> absolutely not. jack smith comes from the manhattan d.a.'s office and career job in justice. he's a classic of those institutions, staying within the ethical lines for sure. i just don't think there's any evidence of that at all. and i say the same about his team. >> there's also another clip he talks about where he's asked about who's paying for it. who's paying for the legal fees. listen to what he had to say. >> i find that sort of nauseating. this guy claims to be a multi-billionaire and he goes out and raises money from

hardworking class -- hardworking people, small donors and tells them this is to defend america and to, you know, take care of the -- he didn't provide any significant support during the '22 elections and a lot of this money seems to be going to his legal fees. >> he's nauseated. i want to ask you because you've been and received public defenders. as much as discussions are having about haves and have notes and a tale of two justice systems. which i think is true. the have and have notes are in stark contrast in terms of what they're able to access for justice, but that conversation doesn't really contemplate something like this. >> i think that's what's so interesting about this case is it took so long to even be brought. what everyone saw on january 6th was truly mind-blowing, and it really is the most dangerous kind of act for our country to try to undo the election results

of american voters. and so the fact that it took 2 1/2 years for there to be charges i think is really the surprising part. so that's been my answer to some of the questions about whether this is a political prosecution. but every day in superior court where both you and i have practiced we see the poorest people, the people with the least social capital prosecuted by the department of justice. and so for the rule of law to mean anything there has to be people with power -- and donald trump had the most power of anyone at the time -- who get prosecuted when they cross lines. i mean otherwise the rule of law doesn't mean a thing. >> i mean he was at the time they're alleging some of these things the head of the executive branch of government whose job it is of course to enforce the law. look at this civics lesson happening on a wednesday night at 10:00. everyone, standby. we've got more to talk about include more about these donations and what bill barr to

say. i want to go quickly back to paula reid. trump is expected to appear in court tomorrow. >> we're expecting the former president to come here to washington, d.c. to attend this hearing in person. it's unclear if we're actually going to get to see him. there's no cameras in federal court, and this particular courthouse is very custom to dealing with vips, people with security details. and you can easily drive into the garage underneath the courthouse and not be seen at all. but once he's inside the courthouse, he's effectively under arrest. he will be processed. we expect they'll take his fingerprints. we don't expect, though, he'll have a mug shot. this is an issue they dealt with in manhattan and florida. the consensus is mug shots are used by law enforcement if someone goes on the lam, but everybody knows what former president trump looks like. now, the hearing itself will be pretty quick, procedural. we expect he'll hear the charges that have been filed against him, have the opportunity to enter a plea, and this hearing also is not going to be before

judge chutkan. she's the one that will oversee this case in a possible trial. instead this will be before a magistrate and likely have another date on the calender for his first hearing before a trial judge. >> in case your wonder, yes, paula reid does live in this news building and reports news constantly all the time. we're going to go back to the table. the viewers are asking questions. one of the questions they're asking is, look, can he serve if he's convicted? >> yes. >> yes. >> there's the answer. the answer is yes, america. number two, if he were to go behind bars for any of these alleged crimes could he be elected from prison? >> yes. >> yes. >> wow. >> go back to the eugene debbs case. wow, that's where we are. >> it's surprising to people and i want to unpack a little more. it might surprise people to know when we talk about all the different kwoifgdss it takes to

get hired in most professions and the résumé building and all the things going on. when it comes to the presidency the constitution governs. and it didn't contemplate perhaps this scenario. contemplate a little bit why the constitution doesn't say, no, he can't run if this happens? >> maybe it wasn't contemn plated as a possibility. there is in the fourth amendment some provision for disqualification on very narrow grounds related to insurrection, but that's about it. >> otherwise he's qualified based on age. >> 35, 14 years and you've got to be a natural born citizen. we were talking about i was born in germany. i wrote to secretary of state when i was in the eighth grade, and he said you can be president because your dad was in the military and you were a citizen born abroad. like john mccain. >> well, when i turn 35 -- i don't know why you guys are laughing. question number three. number three is if trump was elected -- and this is a question that came up early, of

course, in his own initial presidency in his first term -- could he pardon himself? >> i don't think anyone knows the answer to that question because it's never happened before. no president has attempted to pardon himself. no president has been charged formally with a crime. but i do think it's possible that we could see president trump sworn in behind bars and then pardon himself to walk out of prison. >> can i adone note to that? because i totally agree as a theoretical matter, legal matter it's unclear, but as a practical matter who's going to stop him? the statute of limitations would run on the offense while he's in office. his own justice department is not going to do it. i don't think anyone else would have standing to even raise this issue potentially. so i think that would be the bigger problem even in the abstract. >> i also think his republican rivals would have to take a pledge if they were -- let's say

nikki haley was the nominee, i believe they'd have to take a blood oath on this if it was somebody else and trump was found guilty and has to go to jail, he'd have to pardon. >> we're hearing that, and desantis as well. that is the litmus test on what you would do next although this is different scenario and different world we live in today. everyone, standby because next we're going to look at the judge who's presiding over trump's case including her experience with january 6th defendants. plus we're breaking out the ven diagram, yes we are, to show you the variety of reactions from his 2024 rivals. and we'll speak with one as well. and coming up, an exclusive interview. i talk with the family of travis king, the man you're seeing here, the army sole yr who went into north korea. this as kim jong-un's regimes sends some pretty eerie messages. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes toto do it all.

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get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. but, you also can't leave covered in hair. with bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. bounce. it's the sheet. so the federal judge is going to preside over trump's january 6th criminal case is judge tanya chutkan, who, by the way has already overseen dozens of cases against january 6th rioters. paula reid is back with me now. what do we know about her background? she's an experienced federal judge. he's been on the bench since 2014 when she was nominated by then-president barack obama. she's a remember foller federal public defender. and as you can see she was

confirmed 95-0 by the senate, and she has been overseeing january 6th cases, dozens of them so she's very familiar with the subject matter they're going to cover here. >> so how has she handled some of those cases because many judges on the bench right now especially in d.c. have had to draw some of these cases, assigned some of these cases. none of them are a stranger to that. what has she been saying? >> this is tough judge. statistically she's issued some of the harshest sentences. nearly a dozen times she's gone beyond the sentences recommended by prosecutors, and she's overseen dozens and dozens of these. and she's consistently been the toughest judge when it comes to sentencing. >> i mean 31 defendants already they've sentencedch they exceeded recommendations from the prosecutors nine times. that's pretty significant. >> exactly. she is tough. if you had to pick a judge, if the defense attorneys for the former president were looking at the line-up she probably would have been at the end of the irlist because it's different

from what we saw at the mar-a-lago case where you saw a judge already appointed. >> they're going to have the same level of scrutiny. judge cannon and chutkan what they're going through. let's talk about trump specifically with this particular judge because she has referenced him or referenced at least the idea and intimated about him through the course of rulings and sentencing. >> yeah, he tried to with hold certain documents from the time he was president from the january 6th committee. this was something litigated and she wasn't having it. this is one of the most famous quotes from that opinion. presidents are not king and the plaintiff is not president. those are one of the really significant rulings as the january 6th committee was trying to obtain evidence and the former president was throwing any privilege he possibly could trying to see what would stick. and when it came to her, things were not sticking and she ruled against him. it was one of the more significant blows that she

suffered during the january 6th committee investigation, not with jack smith. >> and of course she referenced at one point for one person one person did not go to the capitol out of a love for our country, he went for one man, obviously talking about donald trump. we'll see what happens from here. as you mentioned tomorrow tomorrow is in front of a magistrate, not her. we'll hear more in the motion. thank you, paula. and here's a question, everyone, for all of you out there. should voters know the outcome of all -- and i mean all of these cases before, well, the voting begins? we're going to ask one of trump's 2024 rivals next. plus barack obama's private warning to president biden about what is coming in his battle for re-election.

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on the campaign trail, look, the reactions from trump's rivals to his now third indictment, well, let's just say they're wildly different. and for that i've put together a ven diagram because what else would we do this evening? on one side, of course, you've got the rivals who are defending trump and yet they're baselessly

claiming, by the way, this is joe biden weaponizing the government. who's in that section of the ven diagram? i'm talking about ron desantis and vivek and of course tim scott who has suggested, by the way, candidates should pledge to pardon trump. on the other side of this ven diagram you have the obvious reactions from rivals who, well, they're no fans of donald trump, and they've made it known. chris christie, asa hutchinson with whom we're going to speak in just a moment, and also will hurd who said trump is running for president maybe to run away from jail. and look, you've got in the middle this blurry section. things get a little bit blurrier, shall we say. nikki haley she has condemned the first indictment but now seems a little exasperated by the, quote, distraction. pence, too, he denounced the first one but in this one says anyone who puts himself over the constitution should not be the president of the united states. and then seemed to suggest

trump's, quote, his word, crack pot, unquote, lawyers share the blame. then you've got doug burgham, everyone, doesn't like to talk about the indictments at all. and frances suarez jumped into the race after one of trump's indictments that happened in his own city, but he suggests he'd pardon trump to heal the country. joining me flow one of trump's presidential rivals, arkansas governor asa hutchinson. i'm excited to hear your particulars of the nomination. one thing that's been suggested voters ought to know the outcome of these cases before the voting begins. the calender might not cooperate with that, but is that the right thing to do, that voters would be able to know what's going to happen? >> sure. the more information to the voters, the better. and so in an ideal world these cases would be concluded and the voters would have all the

information they need. but as a practical matter the criminal docket is not going to allow that to happen. voting will take place in iowa and new hampshire before these cases are concluded. and so it puts the voters in a terrible situation. and that's not good for them. more information would be better. we'd like to see them to have that. but the fact is candidates who's running for 2024 nomination on the republican side, they've got to take a stand on this. either you're for accountability and the rule of law or you're for donald trump and chaos. and i think that you can't take the middle ground on that. in this case whenever you look at what happened on january 6th, i've been clear donald trump is morally responsible for that. >> you have been quite clear, but also it's clear people are not necessarily budging. i can't imagine anyone had on

their strategist bingo card. you mean i've got an opponent who now has three indictments and two impeachments, and i can't use any of it? i can't capitalize or seize on any of it? why do you think there is that hesitation? i'm using hat term generously here. why is there outright refusal in most instances to try to use this even as a part of one's campaign to talk about the issues that i know you also want to actually discuss? >> well, that's what we do. i just came back from new hampshire, and the voters there are asking me about affordable housing. they're asking me about the challenge of the economy and high interest rates, and so that's what we're talking about on the campaign trail. now, the fact is that they're overwhelmed with the information on the trump charges. and it's going to be an issue in the campaign. you think about the charges and whether he's found guilty or not guilty is another issue. but here the special prosecutor

says that he actually knew he lost the election, but he tried to overturn the election anyway. and the defense is that, well, he actually believed he won the election. if you believe the defense and you've got a candidate who wants to be president who's delusional. and if you believe the special prosecutor that he knew that he lost the election and tried to overturn the anyway, then it's criminal conduct. and so it's going to be a campaign issue. i want to get on the debate because this issue will come up in the debate. and the difference between the candidates and their approach to this and how they're handling this and rule of law will be an issue in that debate that comes up in milwaukee in august. >> you certainly describe the constant rock and a hard place or the lesser of two evils, and i'm not sure which one keen voters want to attach themselves to. you do want to be on that debate

stage. i'm sure you've heard executives joined in efforts on that debate. so far he's saying he's not going to give oxygen to the other candidates. what's your response? >> well, whether he's there or not it's going to be a very good debate. i'll be prepared either way. if he's there, there's a lot to talk about. if he's not there, just think about the debate between the candidates and there's differences in policy. we're going to talk about real issues people care about in our pocketbook. if you want me to be on that debate stage, aasa2024.com is hw people get there. >> let's talk about that road to getting there because there's some interesting warnings that president obama actually privately gave to president biden. and one of the comments he made apparently was not to underestimate trump's political strength. by jumping into the race and so many of the candidates who were

hoping to best him in spite of the polling we are seeing, and it is still early, is there any underestimation about his political strength and the scope of the base that supports him still? did you underestimate him? >> i don't think i underestimated him, but the hold that he has and the loyalty of the base and how they've accepted everything that he's said, they have followed him to the ends of the earth and it's to their detriment whenever you look at the fact he's misled them. but there's still that loyal bond there, and i don't know what's going to break it. and i acknowledge he's at a very high level and you've got other candidates in single digits. we'll see where this goes, but this is a fight for the soul of our republican party and the future of our country. and it's a fight worth having. and that's why i sense that in iowa and new hampshire, these early states people are paying

attention and they care about this. and they want to look at the alternative candidates. they want to look at the debate and make a good decision, so it is wide open. it is early, and we can't -- and this is the most unpredictable political environment i've seen in my lifetime. and so let's see how it plays out. let's give the voters a chance, and all the facts we hope will be on the table in regard to this case, the pending cases that are against donald trump. >> by the way, governor, really quick. if for some reason you do not find yourself on the debate stage or qualifying in that run, would you consider running as a third party candidate? >> well, i want to run as the republican nominee. that's the only thing that i'm considering. i expect to be on the debate stage, and i trust that everybody will help get me there, and that's the only goal that i have right now is to be on that debate stage. >> governor asa hutchinson, thank you so much. >> thank you.

great to be with you. thank you. >> let's get back to the table here, and i ask you the same question in terms of the timing. we already know the calender. i'm not going to put up another ven diagram to suggest. we know the calender is not really on the same side of getting everything resolved in maybe the schedule you like. do the voters deserve to know the outcome of these cases? is that part of what ought to be contemplated? you're nodding. >> absolutely. i think this goes to the very heart of our democracy of this republic and whether or not it sustains itself going forward. and i know that might sound like hyperbole, but it's not. donald trump has been indicted now for the third time. this new indictment goes to the fact like asa said either he's deluded or crazy and everyone believes what he told them it wasn't true or he's diabolical and unhinged and he tried to thwart democracy and get his supporters and his vice president to do things that were

unlawful and unconstitutional. so either way it's bad, so people should know. >> well, as a legal matter they actually do. the speedy trial act, which governs how judges are supposed to set trial schedules, includes specifying it's not just the defendant's interest in a speedy trial but the public has an interest in a speedy trial, twenty-two. about a month ago in politico we actually did a poll coming over the indictments and we asked people should the trial occur before the republican primary or the election? almost two thirds said it would occur before the general election. almost half of the republicans. >> if there's one case in particular you ought to know the outcome of which one is it? >> it's this one. it shows how donald trump behaved as president during an election. there couldn't be anything more important than that. and so for the american people

to have the opportunity to watch the evidence against him, to see his defenses, to evaluate him potentially as a witness, i think that's really important. >> do you agree? >> i think so. this is -- the nature of the charges are fundamental to the job description. >> everyone, thank you so much. we'll talk about all this ahead. michael cohen joins cnn on whether he thinks the coconspirators may flip against trump. and up next my exclusive interview with the entire family of travis king, the u.s. soldier who mysteriously fled over the line, they say, into north korea and might very well be currently detained. why they noticed some strange signs before he walked across the border. huh, huh, so did their dog roger. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest t stuff smelling fresh. (light acoustic music plays) (eagle screeches) (energetic music plays)

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subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why subway's proffered by this champ. and this future champ. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. he's cocky for a nineteen year old. well, the mystery is deepening tonight. the one about the u.s. soldier

who ran across the border into north korea. now, in just a few moments i'm going to speak with travis king's entire family in their first interview since his detention. but first the state department is now confirming north korea did reach out to the united nation's command at the demilitarized zone in the last 48 hours but says it was not a substantive call, and they don't see it as progress. now, you'll recall back on july 10th king was released from the south korean detention facility. he was expected to fly back to the u.s. just a week later. but after king passed through security, he apparently told his staff that his passport was missing. he was then escorted back outside as far as we know. then the next day he had reservations for a joint security area tour, joining other tourists it seemed as they went into the dmz that separates the north from the south. now, during that tour he apparently broke off from the group and ran off across the

border into north korea of all places and has not been hard from since. the united nations command says that conversation with north korea began just a few days ago on july 24th. and that gets us really to where we are right now. tonight king's family continues to search for answers, any answers about his welfare, his whereabouts. and they say they just want to see their loved one brought back home safely. king's uncle, myron gates along with king's sister join me now in an exclusive interview as well as another relative, myron's wife as well as travis' grandparents. we have conversed in the past. there are so many unanswered questions, myron. it's been two weeks already since travis they say ran across the border into north korea. i have to know what this has been like for your family to be

getting the reports like this, and then i understand radio silence. >> it's been very, very devastating to my family and i. and for it to be two weeks we feel like we should know more right now as what's going on. is he safe? we don't know nothing. >> do you know right now where travis is exactly? is he alive? is he in the custody of north korea's government? is he somewhere detained? do you know sitting here today where he is? >> sitting here today i don't know where he is. the only thing i know is there's a picture of him on the news from the backside, and they're saying travis king ran across the border. that's the only thing i know. i don't know nothing else. >> so you don't even have confirmation it sounds like that that in fact was your relative,

was travis your loved one that even crossed over that border? >> no, i don't. i don't have -- i don't know anything. the only thing i was told was that they're talking to them, and they acknowledged that they have him, i guess. but i still don't know like if that's -- if he's even really over there. i don't know if he is over there -- i don't know. it's frustrating. >> frustrating, of course. and this is your brother, and as you hear myron talking about i wonder when was the last time you spoke with him. as we talk a little bit about the time line the world seems to understand is he was supposed to get on a flight to return to the united states, did not go on that flight, ended up then in some sort of a tourist area to try to do a tour to cross over the border. had you spoken to him before that? when was the last time? >> as far as like recently, i

guess i heard from him around july 15th. but me personally i don't believe that's him talking to me on messenger. there's a lot of reasons why. i know my brother. i don't know. it just brings tears to my eyes. i don't know. it's frustrating. he's my baby brother, so, yeah. >> why don't you think that it was him communicating? i know you say you hadn't spoken to him, put there was some communication, right? some messaging -- >> exactly. he's not the type. every time -- every time i reach back out to him, like, you know we're 15 hours apart, so at nighttime it's daylight there. so i work third shift -- well, i was working third shift and at the time i'm like call me and

he's like i can't talk now, i can't talk now and weird stuff and stuff that's not him. like the rat videos, it was all like suicidal attempt stuff that i feel like personally leads up to this where i'm his older sister so i personally feel is he's innocent. we don't know if he ever was, you know, in their custody to begin with because in all actuality we lost contact with him when he left fort something -- texas. is it fort worth? >> something texas, it start with an "f." sorry, but we lost contact with him when he went to korea. it's like he had an american phone allegedly, which he really did and he lost it. and that's basically how we cut ties. so i was asking my mom do you talk to him, have you heard from

him, holiday after holiday after holiday she'd just wait by her phone and hope and pray he had called. but i guess we'll all get something from his messenger, and that doesn't add up because he's never done social media. and first and foremost he's going to reach out to our mom and let him hear his voice. he's not the type to disappear. >> where is your mother right now? >> actually i really don't know. i've been calling her, so i don't know. >> this must be extremely tough for her. and what you said to her before, myron, i know you've communicated with her. this is she didn't come, so i don't know. i know the first time she got on the news, she barely could put descendants together because this is really, really

hard on my mom. that is her baby boy. his roma is still in her house. i tell my mom all the time, mom, you have this big house. she won't downsize her house, that is her baby boy. she made it where, if we need somewhere to go, we could go back home. >> you, me, myron, the family, the american public, we are asking the questions of why, what does not add, up for the answers. does the government given you any indication they know more information? for example, especially this -- we know as much as you know. >> that strikes me as odd, that you would know as the family members very little about his whereabouts, and what happened. i have to be direct here, do you have any reason to believe travis would have intentionally run over the border into north korea to defect in that way? >> no. >> he had no reason to do that at all. >> had he been angry with the

government, the military? had he been angered the government, the military, anything like that? >> no. >> no. >> i understand the vice president -- vice president kamala harris -- >> he is quiet, to himself. he doesn't deal with people. >> i've been calling the d.c. office, the congressman's, senators. we get no answers. >> nobody has -- you've talked to -- are no vice president kamala harris is supposed to be in kenosha tomorrow, and i understand you have had contact with staff members, members of congress. what do you want the administration, the president to be doing? are they doing anything as far as you are presently right now aware to help find your brother, your loved one, your nephew, his grandson for his grandparents back there? do you know if they are doing anything right now to bring him home?

>> now. >> no. >> we wish they would come to our house to talk to us and let us know something. >> or let me get him, because i'm his big sister at this point. >> let me go get him. i'm his uncle. >> your family's working with an outside group. are they working with anyone besides the u.s. government to try to get those answers? is anyone else involved? >> working with a nonprofit organization called richardson's -- >> okay. >> he is a negotiator. he is going to help our family. >> i understand you've been contacted as well by the -- half they been able to get in touch with you to help? >> yes. his parents, bright and sunny, they've been giving us a lot of advice, and we really, really appreciate them. >> let's say, if he were listening right now, and knowing you were fighting for him, that you are looking for

him, your family loves him so much. he is important. he matters to you, to his family in particular. of course, as a member of our armed services, the entire nation is watching to understand what has happened here. what would you like to say to him if you were listening? >> i love you, brother. something i've been sending out on messages. i know -- if it was you, i love you. i want you to be home, you know? i really want you to be home, the same way you left. i want you to come back. if not, even healthier. all of these allegations and stuff, i don't believe them. >> myron? >> i'm a big sister, so. i always know. i just can't believe it. >> i would say, nephew, we love you, we are standing here strong, and we are going to continue to fight for you. we are not going to stop until you come home. >> a lot of questions are left unanswered. this seems like the beginning

of the story, and i hope that you get the respect of the answers soon. thank you for joining us. we will keep -- >> thank you. >> i am laura coates, everyone. and that was difficult to hear. thank you for watching tonight. everyone, up next, michael cohen is going to john alison camerota on this new indictment and donald trump's coconspirators. plus, geraldo rivera joins live on the executives meeting with trump after his indictment. don't miss it. do it all. with up to 13 camera v views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. kayaking is my thing.

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torr. he is facing for federal criminal charges, including conspiracy to defraud the united states. all in connection to his efforts to undo his election loss. a secret service as security will be at the highest levels. in a moment, i will ask former trump fixer michael cohen about the defense that trump appears to be using, and what he thinks will happen next to those six coconspirators. plus, our resident fact checker daniel dale goes through the 45-page indictment tonight to break down every one of the election lies laid out in it. former attorney general bill barr tells kaitlan collins tonight that trump knew he lost the election. >> at first, i wasn't sure. i have come to believe that he knew well he lost the election, and what i think is important is the government assumed the burden of proving that. the government, and they're tightening, takes the position that he had actual knowledge