-- someone like a former president is going to be arraigned tomorrow, taking those precautions, that comes as long forsman officials tell, cnn they are also monitoring for potential, threats, protests and online chatter. i should, note where trump is going to be tomorrow for this arrangement which we are told is going to happen at four pm eastern, is the same courthouse in washington where you have seen so many of the january six defendants prosecuted, of course. thank you for joining, us cnn prime time with laura coates starts right now. >> wow, that was a really

fascinating interview. we've all been leaning into see what bill barr had to say. a lot of us, waiting to figure out what he would think about all this. i'm laura coates. everyone. and thank you all for joining me right here in washington, d. c.. it's the capitol on high alert tonight. why? because the nation is bracing for the arrest and arraignment of a former president. shall i say, again? the third time in, what, three months? he will appear in court tomorrow, as expected. in now his third indictment on charges of trying to overturn an election. and we've learned at cnn that the secret service is already done a walk through of the courthouse and law enforcement is now monitoring even potential threats. meantime, everyone, we are getting an early look at what his potential defense strategy might be. including what's called, this is not my term, but the delusion defense, that he actually believed his own lies. plus, suggestions that he's about to throw his legal advisors under the bus. i can't imagine that happening. and just moments ago, trump's former attorney general, bill barr, spoke to cnn with his very first reaction to this new

indictment. >> at first, i was not sure, but i've come to believe that he knew well that he had lost the election and now, what i think is important is the government has assumed the burden of proving that. the government, in their indictment, takes the position that he had actual knowledge that he had lost the election and the election was not stolen through fraud. and they are going to have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. >> which is a high bar, of course. >> that's a high bar which leads me to believe that they were only seeing a tip of the iceberg on this. >> you think jack smith has more? >> oh yes, i would believe he has a lot more. >> well, in the case of this magnitude, one would assume he would. he also poured cold water on the first amendment defense that some trump allies have already been floating, including, i might add, trump's

own lawyer. >> as the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants. he can even lie. he can even tell people that the election was stolen when he knew better. but that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. all conspiracies involve speech and all fraud involves speech. so, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. >> i mean, just because you have said something does not mean that you are totally immunized and inoculated from ever being held liable for it. we will talk about the specifics of those comments in just a few moments, but i've got an amazing group of legal experts standing by to dissect and walk through all of this. but first, i want to begin with cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid. paula, look, bill barr said up today's development. so, i want to know, what we now know tonight about what the plan is for trump to build a defense?

>> we are starting to see the broad contours of a legal defense here and they are really trying to hit on this idea of infringing on his freedom of speech, and saying that, here the, government has allegedly criminalize political speech. what that fails to take into consideration is the fact that the indictment outlines exactly how this went so much further than just words and laying out the specific series of alleged actions that the former president took. now, in the alternative, they're also arguing this good, faithfully by the former president really believed that the election had been stolen. but prosecutors were one step ahead of him, laying out, in the indictment, multiple instances where he either admitted that he did lose or that he had officials telling him that, in fact, there was no basis for these claims. >> paula, stick around. we need your insight tonight and right now, also, i am joined by david aaron, a former federal prosecutor with the doj national security division. we've got sophia nelson, cnn contributor. pain contributor.

and also former house republican investigative committee counsel, beta johnson's also here in associate professor of law at george howell university. and on kuch could or, is a former federal prosecutor as well. in other words, we've got his panel and i'm glad that you're all here because the number one question i keep getting, including at the grocery store today, was, what's up with his whole free speech discussion? the political speech notion. is it true that as long as trump was saying something about his views on the election that he's protected? what do you think? >> well, yes and no. the attorney general, the former attorney general said it best. you can have free speech, you can say what do you think. you can even lie. but you can't engage in a conspiracy to commit fraud and do other things that are crimes. that is the line that jack smith is going to have to walk. >> i mean, the network, and that's a great point because

you know, first of all, we already have laws that say if you say certain things, you're going to be liable. i mean, if i were didn't to try to hide or hire a hit person with my actual words, because i said it, i'm not protected, right? defamation also a part of it. i mean, there are threats, a great example of it. why is this having legs? is it because people believe, what? it's so nuanced, it's political, can he criticize people? >> i assume it's people who have not read through the indictment and see all the actions that are being alleged, that the former president trump actually took to bring about his plan to overturn the election results. i mean, if you look through what is being alleged, there are actual concrete steps like trying to line up the slate of fake electors. so, there are certainly things beyond just words here in this indictment. >> so, is the fact that the

words are part of the action? i mean, it's not like you're saying, maybe he was trying to avoid a first amendment defense, in many respects, right? lays it out and says, he's got every right, i'm paraphrasing here, to say these things. but they were likely prepared for the first amendment, but is the action you're talking about that, look, i'm putting these words in here to show you this, part of the oral conspiracy, is that right? >> i think that's right and i think it's absolutely right, in the special counsel saw that this might happen because some of the first page is where he lays out what, you know, the fact that donald trump had every right to talk about and even to lie about what he believed we took place with the election. >> what do you think? >> every time sort of significant legal news pops around trump and indictment, or some investigation, there is always a few days where they're, like, test driving these really bad arguments, right? then they eventually kind of settle on one or two that maybe will sort of carry them

through. we are in sort of the test driving face. i think this is kind of a crazy argument because, like, i used to prosecute financial fraud cases. they are all about speech, right? when someone calls you on your phone, you get a spam call, someone's trying to get your icloud credentials or get you to turn over your credit card, the fact that they are speaking to does not somehow make that protected by the first amendment. it is a crime, right? >> you are saying, they are, saying it's political though. this is obviously a campaign and one of the things that the lawyer said yesterday was, hold on. this was kind of a forward thinking, what about-ism, which i love that sort of creativity after a long day of news. it was the idea of, what if one day joe biden says something that you don't agree with? is that going to be colonel eyes?

this is different. >> it is. i do think that the political character of the speech is what is giving this theory the legs that it has. i also think it's a theory that's probably -- toward the public men out a judge or at a jury and a lot of the members of the public, as well written and concise as the indictment is, a lot of people are not going to read it. they are just going to hear about it. and the fact that the speech was political in nature, i think, will lead a lot of people to attach that first amendment idea at least temporarily. >> sorry, sofia, political in nature? you have to shrink, i'm going to -- what's going on here? >> no, no. >> you stopped dead in her tracks right now. all i was going to say was political in nature meaning, it's coming for a politician's mouth? >> correct and it's hard to a political process. doesn't make it any less

fraudulent. doesn't make it any less dangerous. but because it's not made, you know, in the course of financial fraud or -- >> i think for the public, we should define what is political speech and why it's different from regular speech. political speech is probably, correct me if i'm wrong, the most protected or the one that we really look at, want to guard, because you are saying something that has to do with an election or your opinion, or your assessment, or your analysis, or you are saying how you feel about it, right? he did all of that, for sure.

but he crossed the line. as the former attorney general said, and that's what i think the public needs to get. i think we are all telling you, yes, he can say what he wants. but there is a line of criminality that none of us can cross with our words. >> i'm hearing some amen nodding over here. >> yeah, i think the key point was the one that you made which is, it's not just words. the words were intended to produce actions, right? and i think calling this political speech, i understand that. and there are real first amendment issues around criminalizing certain types of speech. i don't want to just be flippant about it. but the first amendment is designed to promote truthful public debate, right? and so, it's for that reason that the first amendment doesn't protect fraud, right? and yes, it's political speech. but in this instance, it's not just like talking about his position on a bill or something, right? we're talking about speech that was aimed at overturning the election, right? we are talking about the most dangerous form of, quote, unquote, political speech, right? supporting our democratic process. so, i think like i said, i mean,

there are throwing things against the wall. in my estimation, we will see what sticks. >> i'm surprised that a panel full of lawyers, not one of us that the word allegedly. so i will say the word allegedly to give -- all the things that we just said. but let me just play for you, for a second, what bill barr had to say, in terms of how he felt about jack smith's integrity. listen to this. >> he's an aggressive prosecutor. he's the kind of prosecutor, in my view, that if he thinks someone is committed a crime, he, you know, hones in on it and really goes to try to make that case. there is no question he is aggressive. but i do not think that he is a partisan actor. he, personally. >> you think he's treated trump fairly here? >> i don't know whether he's treated trump fairly. >> from what you've observed, i guess. >> yeah, from what i've observed. i don't know him, but i know a lot of republican lawyers who have worked with him over the years, and they tell me he's a tough, hard nosed prosecutor, but that he's not a partisan prosecutor.

>> i mean, that seems to belie some of what we're going to be hearing about this language of the weaponization of the government and that, i think the word was deranged, that trump used on truth social. >> one of the night awards. >> it was one of the nice words, right? which, is saying something. but i mean, this idea, the partisanship of a prosecutor. it's always causing the question, whether they have some sort of ax to grind. we hear about it all the time. but is there any evidence to support this talking point? doesn't mean there won't be legs, but other evidence to support this for you? >> absolutely not. jack smith comes in from the g -- career job at justice. he's a classic product of those institutions playing it down the middle, going very aggressively when he believes that someone is guilty and that he has the evidence to prove it. staying within the ethical lines, for sure. i just don't think there's any evidence of that at all and i was going to say the same to -- >> there is also another clip he talks about where he was asked about who's paying it, right? the old, where is this money coming from? who's paying for the legal fees?

listen to what he had to say. >> i find that sort of nauseating, this guy claims to be a multibillionaire and, you know, he goes out and raises money from hardworking people, small donors, and tells them this is to defend america and to, you know, take care of the election. he didn't provide any significant support during the 2022 elections. and a lot of this money seems to be going to his legal fees. >> well, he's nauseated. i want to ask you, david, because you've been and also received public defenders. we were talking about people who, as much as discussions that are happening in politics right now about this haves and have-nots, a tale of two justice systems, which i think is true.

the haves and have-nots are in stark contrast, in terms of what they're able to access for justice. but that conversation doesn't really contemplate something like this. >> well, i think that is what is interesting about this case, is that it took so long to even be brought. i mean, what everyone saw on january 6th was truly mind-blowing and we it really is the most dangerous kind of act for our country to try to undo the election results of american voters. and so, the fact that it took two and a half years for there to be charges, i, think is really just the surprising part. so, that's what my answer to some of the questions about, you know, whether this is a political prosecution. but every day in superior court, were both you and i have practiced, we see the poorest people, the people with elise social capital, prosecuted by the department of justice. and so, for the rule of law to mean anything, there has to be people with power and donald trump had the most power of anyone at the time, who get prosecuted when they crossed lines. i mean, otherwise, the rule of law doesn't mean a thing. >> i mean, he was, at the time, they are alleging so many things, the head of the executive branch of government. his job is, of course, to enforce the law. look at this civics lessons civics lesson happening on wednesday night at 10:00. everyone standby, we have a lot more to talk about including more about these donations and what bill barr has to say and others. i want to go back quickly to paul reed, though. paula, trump has set to appear in court tomorrow. what are we expecting to take place tomorrow? >> laura, we are expecting a

former president to come here, to washington, the sea, to attend this hearing in person. it's unclear if we are actually going to get to see him. there is no cameras in federal court. and this particular courthouse is very accustomed to dealing with vips. people's security details and you can easily drive into the garage underneath the courthouse and not be seen at all. but once he is inside the courthouse, he's effectively under arrest. he will be processed, we expect they will take his fingerprints. we don't, though, expect that he will have a mugshot. this is an issue they dealt with in manhattan and florida. the consensus is that mug shots are used by law enforcement as someone goes on the line, but everybody knows what former president trump looks like. now, the hearing itself will be pretty quick. procedural. we expect he will hear the charges that been filed against him, have the opportunity to enter a plea. this hearing also is not going to be before a judge chutkan, she's one who oversees this case in a possible trial. instead, this will be before a magistrate and will likely have another date on the calendar for his first hearing before the trial judge. >> in case you're all wondering, yes, paul reed, does in fact, live in this building and reports all the news from here constantly, all the time. everyone, we are going to go back to the table right now, i want a bit of a round robin because the viewers, i told you, they are asking questions. one of the quick questions they're asking is, look, can he serve if he's convicted? >> yes.

>> that's a short answer, there you go. the answer is yes, america. number two, if you were to go behind bars for any of these alleged crimes, could he be elected from prison? >> yes. >> go back to the eugene debs case in the 19 twenties, right? socialist, got, what, 1 million, 1 million -- votes, i mean, that's where we are. >> it's surprising to people. just unpack it a little more because it might surpris people to know, as we talk about all the different qualifications that he takes to get hired in most professions, right? the resume building, all things that are going on. when it comes to the presidency, the constitution governs and it didn't contemplate, perhaps, this scenario. just unpack a little more about why the constitution doesn't actually say, no, he can't run if this happens? >> maybe that it wasn't contemplated as a possibility. there is, in the 14th amendment, some provision for disqualification on very narrow grounds related to insurrection. but that is about it. >> otherwise he's qualified, he's -- >> 14 years and you've got to be a natural born citizen. we were talking about i was born in germany, i wrote to the secretary of state when i was in the eighth grade and he said, -- because your dad was in the military, you are a citizen born abroad. like john mccain. so yes, i did. >> when i turned 35, i -- [laughter] >> i don't know why you guys are laughing at. that question number three. number three is, if trump was

elected, and this is a question that came up early, of course, in his own initial presidency and the first term, could he pardon himself? >> i don't think anyone really knows the answer to that question because it's never happened before. no president has attempted to pardon himself because no president has been charged formally with a crime. but i do think it is possible that we could see president trump sworn in behind bars and then pardon himself, to walk out of prison. >> can i just add one note to that? i totally agree that as a theoretical matter, a legal matter, it is unclear. as a practical matter, who's

going to stop him? this is a problem. he would be coming in at the start of this presidency, statute of limitations would've run on the offenses while he's in office. his own justice department is not going to do it. i don't think anyone else would have standing, even, to raise this issue, potentially. so, i think as a practical matter that will be the bigger problem, even on the sort of abstract. >> laura, i also think that his republican rivals would have to take a pledge that if they were, like, let's say nikki haley was the nominee. i think she would have to make a pledge that donald trump would get a pardon. i really believe they would have to take a blood oath on this that if it was somebody else and trump does get, you know, found guilty and go to jail, i think they have to pardon him. >> we are already hearing that from ramaswamy, we are hearing that from i think desantis alluded to that is well, that's really the litmus test of what he would do next, hala, nixon. although this is a very different scenario in a very different world we live in today. everyone, standby. because next, we take a look at the judge who is presiding over trump's case, including her experience with the january 6th defendants. plus, we are breaking out the van diagram. yes, we are, to show you the variety of reactions from his 2024 rivals. and we will speak with one as well. and coming up, an exclusive interview. i talk with a family of travis king, the man you are seeing here, the army soldier who went into north korea.

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and gives you a real offer in seconds when you're ready we'll come to you pay you on the spot and pick up your car that's it so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way at carvana >> so the, federal judge presiding over january six criminal cases judge tanya chacon, who by the, way is already overseen tons of cases against january 6th rioters. paula reid is back with me now. so, paula, what do we know about her background? >> she's an experienced judge. season on the federal bench since 2014, when she was nominated by then president barack obama. she's a former federal public defendant. as you can, she was confirmed 95 to 0 by the senate and she has been overseeing january 6th cases. dozens of them, so, she's very familiar with the subject matter they are going to cover here. >> so, how has she handled some

of those cases? many judge on the bench right now, especially in d. c., have had a draw some of these cases. they've been assigned cases. none of them as a stranger get to that. what has she been saying? >> she has been tough. look, this is a tough judge for anyone charge related to january 6th because statistically, she's issued some of the harshest sentences. nearly a dozen times, she has gone beyond the sentences recommended by prosecutors. she's overseen dozens and dozens of these and she has consistently been the toughest judge, when it comes to sentencing. >> i mean, 31 defendants already. she has sentenced. i mean, they've exceeded recommendations from the prosecutors nine times. that's pretty significant. >> exactly. she is tough. if you had to pick a judge, if the defense attorneys for the former president were looking at the lineup, she probably would've been at the end of their list. this is very different than what we saw on the mar-a-lago case, where you have a judge that the former president

appointed, who is already been bench slapped for being so deferential to the former president. so, this is not an ideal job for them, but it will be up to the jury. >> you know what? they're going to have the same level of scrutiny. i will tell you -- of course, chutkan, what they are going through. let's go through the experience of trump specifically with this particular judge. because she has referenced him or reference at least the idea and -- about him through the course of her rulings and sentencing. >> yeah, he tried to withhold certain documents from his time as president from the january 6th committee's. something that was litigated and she wasn't having it. i mean, this is one of the most famous quotes from that opinion. presidents are not kings and the plaintiffs is not

president. so, that was one of the really significant rulings as of january six committee was trying to obtain evidence. the former president was throwing any privilege he possibly could, trying to see what would stick, and when it came to her, things were not sticking. she ruled against him. it was one of the more significant blows that he suffered during the january six committee investigation. not with jack smith. >> and of course, she referenced that one point 41 person, she was -- that person did not go to the capitol. added that love for the country, he won for one man. obviously, talking about donald trump. we will see what happens up here, but as you mentioned already, tomorrow is part of the magistrate, not her. we will hear a lot more, especially the motion. thank you, paula. and here's a question, everyone, for all of you out there. should voters know the outcome of all, and i, mean all of these cases before, well, the voting begins? we are going to ask one of trump's 2024 rivals next. plus, barack obama's private warning to president biden about what is coming in his battle for reelection. retired right? am i? ya! save up to $500 on the new sleep number® smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number®.

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the reactions from trump's rivals to his now third indictment, well, let's just say they are wildly different. for that, i put together a van diagram because, what else would we do this evening? on one side, of course, you've got the arrivals who are defending trump and yet basically, they are basically claiming, by the way, that this is joe biden weaponizing the government, who is in that section of the venn diagram? i'm talking about ron desantis and vivek roth suwannee and, of course, tim scott. now, who has adjusted, by the way, that candidate pledge to pardon trump. now, on the other side of this venn diagram, you have the obvious reactions from rivals who, well, they are no fans of donald trump. they have made it known. chris christie, isa hutchinson, with whom we are going to speak in just a moment, and also will hurd who says that trump is only running for president maybe to run away from jail. and look, you get in the middle this blurry section.

things get a little bit blurry your, shall we say? nikki haley, she has condemned the first indictment, but now it seems a little bit exasperated by the, quote, distraction that is tough language being used. now, pence to, who plays a big role in this new indictment, he denounced the first one, but in this one says that anyone who puts themself over the constitution should not be the president of the united states and then seemed to suggest trump, quote, this is his word, crack pot, unquote, lawyers share the blame. then you've got doug burgum, everyone. he doesn't like to talk about the indictments at all and francis suarez, he jumped into the race after one of trump's indictments and happened in his own city. but he suggests that he pardoned trump to heal the country. now joining me now is one of trump's presidential rivals, former arkansas governor, isa hutchinson. thank you for joining us this evening. i'm eager to hear your perspective, in particular, as one of the hopefuls for the --

nomination. one thing that's been suggested, governor, has been that voters ought to be able to know the outcomes of these cases before the voting begins. the calendar might not cooperate with that, but is that the right thing to do, that voters would be able to know what's going to happen? >> we sure. the more information to the voters, the better. and so, in an ideal world, these cases would be concluded and the voters would have all the information they need. but as a practical matter, the criminal docket is not going to allow that to happen. voting will take place in iowa and new hampshire before these cases are concluded. and so, it puts the voters in a terrible situation and that's not good for the more information, the better. we would like to see them to have that. the fact is, candidates who are running for 2024 nomination on the republican side, they've got to take a stand on this. either you are for accountability and the rule of law or you are for donald trump and chaos, and i think you can't take the middle ground on that. this case, whenever you look at

what happened on january 6th, i think clear, donald trump is morally responsible for that. >> you have been quite clear but also it's clear that people are not necessarily budging. people are not and i can't imagine that anyone had on their strategist bingo card. you may not get an opponent who -- three indictments and two impeachments, and i can't use any of? it i can't capitalize or seize on any of it? why do you think there is that hesitation? i'm using that term generously here. why is the outright refusal, in most instances, to try to use this, even as a part of one's campaign to talk about the issues that i know you've also want to actually discuss? >> we well, that is what we do. i just came back from new hampshire and the voters there are asking me about affordable housing. they are asking me about the challenge of the economy and high interest rates, and so, that is what we are talking about on the campaign trail. now, the fact is that they are overwhelmed with the information on the trump charges. it's going to be an issue in the campaign. you think about the charges and

whether he's found guilty or not guilty is another issue. but here, the special prosecutor says that he actually knew he lost the election, so he tried to over turn the election anyway. and the defense says that, well, he actually believed that he won the election. so, if you believe the defense, you've got a candidate who wants to be president who is delusional. and if you believe the special prosecutor that he knew that he lost the election and tried to overturn it anyway, then it's criminal conduct. and so, it's going to be a campaign issue. i want to get on the debate because this issue will come up in the debate. the difference between the candidates and their approach to this, how they're handling this, and the rule of law will be an issue at that debate that comes up in milwaukee in august. >> you certainly describe the consummate rock in the hard place, or the lesser of two

evils. i'm not sure which one voters are keen to attach themselves to, but you do want to be on that main stage. in the meantime, i'm sure you've heard the fox news executives that had dinner with trump last night and effort to convince him to actually join in on that debate. so far, he is saying he's not going to really give oxygen to the other candidates. what's your response? >> well, whether he is there or not is going to be a very good debate. i will be prepared either way. if he's there, there's a lot to talk about. if he's not there, just think about the debate between the candidates who are there. there are differences in policy. we are going to talk about real issues that people care about in their pocketbook. and so, if you want me to be on that debate stage, a set 2024. com is how you help me get there. and i think people want a vigorous debate there, whether donald trump is there or not. >> let's talk about that road to getting there because there was some interesting warnings

that president obama actually privately gave to president biden. one of the comments he made apparently was not to underestimate trump's political strength. by jumping into the race and so many of the candidates who are hoping to best him, in spite of the polling that we are seeing, and it is still early. is there an underestimation about his political strength and the scope of the base that supports him still? did you underestimate him? >> i don't think i underestimated him, but the hold that he has in the loyalty of the base, and how they have accepted everything that he said. they have followed him to the ends of the earth and it is to their detriment. whenever you look at the fact that he's misled them, but there is still that loyal bond there and i don't know what's going to break it. i have knowledge that he's at a very high level and you've got other candidates that are in single digits. we will see where this goes, but this is a fight that is for

the soul of the republican party, the future of our country, and it's a fight worth having. that is why i sense in iowa, new hampshire, these early states, people are paying attention and they care about this. and they want to look at the alternative candidates, they want to look at the debate and make a good decision. so, it is wide open, it is early, and we can't, this is the most unpredictable political environment i've seen in my lifetime. and so, let's see how it plays out. let's give the voters a chance and all the facts we hope will be on the table in regard to this case. the pending cases that are against donald trump. >> by the way, governor, really quick. if, for some reason, you don't find yourself on the debate stage in qualifying in that run, would you consider running as a third party candidate? >> well, i want to run as a

republican nominee. that's the only thing that i've been considering. i expect to be on the debate stage and i trust that everybody will help get me there, and that's the only goal that i have right now. to be on that debate stage. >> governor asa hutchins in, thank you so much. . >>. thank you. great to be with you, thank you. >> let's get back to the table here and, you know, i ask you guys the same question, in terms of the timing. we already know the calendar, not going to put up another van diagram to suggest. we know the calendar, though. it's not really on the same side -- everything resolved according to maybe the schedule you would like.

do the voters have a right to know the outcome of these cases? is that part of what ought to be contemplated -- >> absolutely. i mean, i think this goes to the very heart of our democracy, of this republican, and whether or not it's the saints itself going forward. i know that might sound like hyperbole, but it is not. donald trump has been indicted now for the third time. this new indictment goes to the fact that like asa said, either he's delusional and crazy and he believed what everybody else told him wasn't true, including 60 lost lawsuits, et cetera, or worse, he's evil, and he's diabolical and unhinged. i'm going to be kind. and he tried to thwart democracy and get his supporters and the vice

president to do things that were unlawful and unconstitutional. so, either way, it is bad. people should know. >> well, as a legal matter, they actually do, right? the speedy trial act, which governs how judges are supposed to set trial schedules, includes specifying that it's not just the defendants interest in a speedy trial, but the public is interested in a speedy trial to and, you know, about a month ago, over at politico, we actually did a poll coming off the last couple of indictments, and we asked people, should the classified document trial occur before the republican primary, before the general election? almost two thirds of the respondents said it should occur before the general election. that included nearly half of the republicans. >> should it be? i mean, is this one of the cases or, if there's one case in particular that you ought to know the outcome of, there are a lot of cases going on, which one is it? >> this one, absolutely. it shows how donald trump behaved as president during election, right? there can be anything more important than that. and so, for the american people to have the opportunity to watch the evidence against him, to see his defenses, to evaluate him, potentially, as a witness, i think that's really important. >> do you agree? >> i think so. i mean, this is the nature of the charges are just fundamental to the job description. >> everyone, thank you so much.

we will talk more about all of this ahead. michael cohen joins cnn on whether he think coconspirators may flip against trump and up next, my exclusive interview with the entire family of travis king, the u.s. soldier who mysteriously fled over the line, they say, intern with korea and might very well be currently detained. why they noticed some strange signs before he walked across the border. the border. and we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom.org. it's just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. subaru. more than a car company. eva's about to learn her fear of missing out leads to overeating. i totally eat stuff to not miss out. and that's just a bit of psychology eva learned from noom weight. sign up now at noom.com

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>> well, the mystery is deepening tonight. what about the u.s. alter her run across the border into north korea? and just a few momeni'm going to speak with travis king 's entire family in their first interview since his detention. but first, state department is now confirmed that north korea did reach out to the united nations command at the demilitarized zone in the last 48 hours, but says, it was not a substantive call and they don't see it as progress. now, you will recall back on july 10th, king was released from the south korean detention facility. he was expected to fly back to the u.s. just a week later. but after king passed through security, he apparently told his staff that his passport was missing. he was then escorted back outside, as far as we know. then the next day, he

reservations for a joint security area tour. joining other tourists, it seemed, as they went into the dmz, that separates the north from the south. during that tour, he apparently broke off from the group and ran off across the border into north korea, of all places, and has not been heard from since. united nations command says that conversation with north korea began just a few days ago on july 24th. and that gets us, really, to where we are right now. tonight, kings family continues to search for answers, any answers, about his welfare, his whereabouts, and they say they just want to see their loved one brought back home safely. king's uncle, myron gates, along with king's sister, jacqueline gates, join me now in a cnn exclusive interview behind him as well as another relative -- wife and of course, travis's grandparents. i'm so glad to see all of you

today. but i have to tell you, we have conversed in the past. there are so many unanswered questions, mira. it's been two weeks already since travis, they say, ran across the border into north korea. i have to know what this has been like for your family to be getting the reports like this and then, i understand, radio silence. >> it has been very, very devastating to my family and i, and for it to be two weeks, we feel like we should know more right now as of what is going on, is he safe? we don't know nothing. >> do you know right now where travis is exactly? is he alive, is he in the custody of north korea's government, is he somewhere detained, do you know sitting here today where he is? >> sitting here today, i don't know where he is. the only thing i know is there is a picture of him on the news from the back side and they are

saying that travis king ran across the border. that's the only thing i know. i don't know nothing else. >> so, you don't even have confirmation, it sounds, like that that, in fact, was your relative, was travis, your loved one that even crossed over that border? >> no, i don't. i don't know anything. the only thing i was told was that they are talking to them and they acknowledge that they have him, i guess. but i still don't know. like, if he's even really over there. i don't know if he is over there, i don't know. it's frustrating. >> frustrating, of course. and chiquita, this is your brother and as you heard myron talking about, i wonder, when was the last time you spoke with him? as we talk about a little bit, the timeline that the world seems to understand is that he was supposed to get on a flight to return to the united states, did not go on that flight, ended up than in some sort of a tourist area to try to do a tour, to cross over that border. have you spoken to him before that? when was the last time? >> as far as i recently,

allegedly, i guess, i heard from him around july 15th. but me, personally, i don't believe that's really him talking to me. on messenger. there are a lot of reasons why. i know my brother. i don't know, it just brings tears to my eyes. it's frustrating. he's my baby brother, so, yeah. >> -- why don't you think that it was him communicating? i know you said you hadn't spoken to him, but there was some communication, right? there was some messaging of some kind. >> because he's not the type, exactly. every time, like, every time i reach back out to him, like, you know, we are 15 hours apart. so, at night time, it's daylight there.

so, i worked -- while i was working third shift and at the time, i was telling him call me. he will be like, i can't talk now, i can talk now. you know, just weird stuff and then sending stuff that is just not him. like, the rap videos, it was all, like, suicidal attempt stuff that i personally feel like leads up to this where i'm 's oldest sister, so how a person feels, he's been -- we don't know if he ever was, you know, in their custody, to begin with, because in all actuality, we lost contact with him. when he left for something, texas, fort worth, is it fort worth? >> fort bliss. >> something, texas. it starts with f, sorry. but we lost contact from him when he went to korea. it's like, he had an american phone, allegedly, you know? as much as he really didn't he lost it and that is basically how we cut ties with him, you know? so i was asking my mom, like,

we talk to him? have you heard from him? holiday, after holiday, after holiday, she would just wait by the phone and hope and pray he would call. but i guess we all get something from his messenger, that's what doesn't add up because he never has social media and the first things first, he's going to do, like, he's always been doing, reach out to our mom and let her hear his voice, you know? he's not the type just disappear. >> where is your mother right now? >> actually, i really don't know. i have been calling her, so, i don't know. >> this must be extremely hard for her and what you said to her before, myron, i know you've communicated with her. this is very devastating for her. >> yeah, i want her to show up but, you know, she didn't come.

so, i don't know. i know the first time she, you know, got on the news, she barely could put a sentence together because, you know, this is really, really hard on my mom, you know? that's her baby boy. his room is still in her house. like, i tell my mom all the time like mom, you have this big house, you know? but she won't downsize her house. that is your baby boy, she always made for him. if we need somewhere to go, we can always go back home. >> you, me, byron, the family, the american public, we are all asking the questions of why. what does not add up for the answers. has the government -- >> and how. >> has a government give you any indication that they know more information? for example, and especially this, myron. >> we know just as much as you guys know. >> but that strikes me as odd,

myron and -- that you would know, as the family members, very little about his whereabouts and what happened. i just have to be very direct here, do you have any reason to believe that travis would have intentionally run over the border into north korea to defect in that way? >> no. >> no reason to do that at all. >> anybody angry with the government, the military. had he been angry with the government, the military, anything like that? >> no. >> no. i don't believe so. >> vice president kamala harris -- >> he's quite, he's to himself, he doesn't even deal with people. >> i've been calling the d. c. office, the congressman, senators, we get no answers. >> nobody has, i know that vice president kamala harris was supposed to be in kenosha tomorrow and i understand that you have had contact with some staff members of members of congress. but what do you want in the administration, the president, to be doing?

are they doing anything as far as you are presently right now aware to help find your brother, your loved one, your nephew, your grandson, his grandparents are back there, you know if they are doing anything right now to try to bring him home? >> no. >> no. we wish they would come to our house to talk to us and let us know something. >> or let me go get him because i'm his big sister. or let >> or let me go get him. i'm his uncle. >> i know your family is working with an outside group of some kind. are they working with anyone besides the u.s. government to try to get those answers? is anyone else involved? >> we are working with a nonprofit organization called richardson's, bill richardson. yeah, he is a negotiator, so, he's going to help our family. >> i understand you've been contacted as well by the -- family, otto warren brings family, have they've been in

touch with you to try to help? >> yeah, otto's parents have read and -- given us a lot of advice and we really, really appreciate them. >> let's just say if he were listening right now and knowing that you were fighting for him, that you are looking for him, your family loves him so much, he is important, he matters to you, to his family in particular. and of course, as a member of our armed services, the entire nation is watching to understand what has happened here. what would you like to say to him if you are listening? >> i love you, bro, the same thing i've been saying on the messages. i know that wasn't you, the, but if it was you, i love you. i just want you to be home, you know? i really do want you to be home

the same way you left, i want you to come back. if not even healthier. but all these allegations and stuff, i don't believe them >> myron? >> i'm his big sister, so i always knew. i just can't believe it, for real. >> i will say the nephew, we love you, we stand with you, we are strong and we are going to continue to fight for you, and we ain't going to stop until you come home. >> byron -- a lot of questions are left unanswered. this seems like the beginning of the story and i hope that you get the respect and the answers soon. thank you so much for joining us. we will keep asking questions. >> of course, thank you. >> i'm laura coates, everyone. that was difficult to hear. thank you for watching tonight. everyone, up next, michael cohen is going to join alison camerota on this new indictment. and donald trump's coconspirators. plus, geraldo rivera also joins live on the fox news executives meeting with trump after his indictment. don't miss it. ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service.

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>> good evening everyone, i'm alison camerota, welcome to cnn. tonight donald trump is expected to appear in person and a washington d.c. couroom tomorrow. hes facing for federal criminal charges, including conspiracy to defraud the united states. all in connection to his efforts to undo his election loss. the secret service says, security will be at the highest levels. in a moment, i will ask a former trump fixer michael cohen about the defense that trump appears to be using, at what he thinks what happens next to those six coconspirators. plus, our 45-page indictment tonight to break down every one of our election lies laid out in it. and former attorney general bill barr tells us that trump knew he lost the electio