tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN August 11, 2023 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
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love, it's what makes subaru subaru. >> tonight on 306, 360, so much for lazy summer days. the first big moment of the election case, the judge warns donald trump to watch what he says and says to her he is just another defendant. and a special counsel appointed to investigate hunter biden and others. who are those others? plus, we are live in maui where the death toll rose sharply. some especially powerful new video is coming in which we will bring to you along with exclusive reporting on how hawaiian officials may have underestimated the risk of a tragedy like this and missed key opportunity to prevent it. good evening everyone. john burrman here for anderson. and how the judge will be handling the most important trial this country has ever seen and the most singular
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criminal defendant ever. someone who is running to reclaim the highest offense in the land. on top of that, he is donald trump. the venue outside a hearing on how he may have handled evidence that prosecutors will be turning over to them. specifically what they are allow today make public. on that, the judge granted some though not all of what each side was asking. on the former president himself, though, who has been talking at times ranting about her and the case and the special council, she was unequivocal. she says he is first and foremost a defendant which comes with certain restrictions including what he can say and post online. what she did not say was when on this crowded calendar the case will be tried. the government wants january, team trump wants after the election. earlier tonight on the situation room, one legal expert told wolf that given manhattan da alvin bragg's
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openness to postponing his march trial, late march looked interesting to him. as for what happened today, cnn's jessica schneider joins us now. jessica, walk us through what the judge laid out today with the protective order. >> yeah john, this isn't as broad a protective order as the prosecution wanted but it does restrict trump from publicly disclosing this so-called sensitive information handed over to them. this is sensitive information that includes grand jury process information. information about search warrants. and this protective order, it also governs how trump can get access to this information. he can't have his phone or any recording device when he views this information. and john, there is a lot of it. prosecutors said at the hearing, they are prepared to hand over 11.6 million pages of documents that also includes recordings of witness interviews that trump also will not be able to share or post on social media and the judge says
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she will be scrutinizing everything he says. >> what did the judge say about the proverbial elephant in the room. he is not just a former president. but a front runner in the current election. >> reporter: she said though trump is a political candidate, she said in her words he still has to yield to the administration of justice. so she said if that means that his political speech has to be somewhat limited, that is just how it's going to be. the judge said that trump, she put it bluntly, does not have the absolute right to free speech as a criminal defendant. he has to play by the rules here to make sure the jury pool isn't tainted and to make sure witnesses are not intimidated. >> what about the time line? did the judge tip her hand at all? >> she is signaling repeatedly she is ready to move quickly in this case. and she said that the danger to tainting the jury pool is really a big reason here. and she warned trump, she said
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him an his team, the more comments you guys make about this case, the greater chance that she'll have to order a quick start to this trial to ensure a fair jury pool and john, you mentioned it. special conciliates team has proposed that january 2nd start date. trump's team needs to put in a filing next week to propose their possible start date. likely like you said, they won't want to start until after the election. >> some time the day after never perhaps for the trump team. jessica, great to see you tonight. thank you so much. with us now, katelyn collins who anchors the source at the top of the next hour. jeremy fogel. the executive director of the berkeley judicial institute. she tipped her hand about her overall attitude of donald
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trump. me is a defendant here. so how is the trump team processing that? >> yeah. this is the first time they were ever in the room from front of her. before it had been a magistrate judge. this is the first time they were in front the judge trump has been attacking. his allies have been attacking. they suggested they may ask for her to recuse herself. now they are in the room with her. she is not treating him as a former president or a 2024 candidate. but as a criminal defendant. and essentially, as they were trying to make arguments about him being on the campaign trail, that is basically his day job. >> i thought that was one of the most telling comments she made. >> the whole thing was really, it shed a lot of light on what the next few months could look like and how she is going to proceed on this. that is what we are looking for. we did it with judge cannon. the judge, looking the see what will be her style. that will determine the scope of this. this is a pretty routine thing asking for this protective
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order. it's not a gag border. she amended it to go with what trump's team wanted. but this just shows you that they are going to be so many battles like this going forward. >> so, sensitive material restricting donald trump. what he can say about sensitive tell which are materials containing personally identifying information. what does that look like in practice for someone like donald trump? >> well, john, it's five, six categories of materials that they have designated as sensitive. and what that looks like, it is grand jury materials. it's the key evidence really that they are going to use to prove the case against donald trump. they are legally required to provide that to him. and, in practice, what that means is, his lawyers will show him the most important information. they will talk to him about it. they probably are not just going to leave anymore a room
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to read. he will be able to react to them. but if he hears the danger, the red line, if some of that information is trapped in his brain, that isn't otherwise public, and then he lets it out in whole or in part, in a social media posting, in a speech at one of his rallies. that is when they will say donald trump will breach this order. and there is potentially very serious penalties for that. so with an undisciplined individual like trump, there's danger that is breached and danger of those penalties. >> so what happens then if donald trump does cross one of those red lines? what options are available to the judge? >> well, i think most judges in a situation like this would use what people would recognize a progressive discipline.
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if it happens once, they would try to understand why it happened. and what the motivation was. whether it was inadvertent or intentional or if it was a violation. if it happens repeatedly, then it becomes more intensive an inquiry. you have to look at what the nature of a breach is. if it is critical. like witness intimidation or revealing information which is clearly confidential. and, the defendant knows it is confidential. that is pretty serious. that affects the integrity of the process. what the judge is trying to do here i think is balance mr. trump's rights as a defendant. and every defendant has the same rights to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence. trying to balance those rights against the need for the integrity of the process. and prevent things like confidential information being leaked. jury pools being tainted. witnesses being dissuaded or intimidated. that's the balance she is trying to strike. if a defendant does something
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that is particularly egregious or if they do things over and over again that are clearly prohibitive, the judge has the option of imposing sanctions. sanctions could be a fine. the most extreme sanction could be revocation of release. the defendant could go to jail. i think the chance of that happening are very remote at this point. but it really depends how things play out. >> i want to go back to this day job comment when the judge said running for president is donald trump's day job. she also said to the defense council, you are conflating what your client needs to do to defend himself and what he wants to do politically. so do you think that donald trump and his defense team that they understand and or care about that distinction? >> i think the point of frustration that we saw from trump's defense attorney was over mike pence. obviously, he is at the center of the january 6th investigation. and he had raised this idea of mike pence being on the debate stage. and trump defending himself. and the judge really dismissed
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that. she did not even, she did not say that was, she said it was giving her more concern he was raising that kind of a point than it was alleviating her concerns. so i think that is something that you can potentially see. and going back to what information does he learn from these documents? they could get transcripts. that is where the issue will be. he could be on the debate stage with mike pence. he has been attacking mike pence, pushing back on his claim. i mean, they were very frustrated at those points in the hearing. >> one way to look at that day job comment is that if the iowa caucuses are your day job, there is nothing special about the iowa caucuses. her saying if this guy keeps speaking out, i will start the trial more quickly, how is she disposed to plan the trial
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date? >> she will set this trial down on the calendar in the first part of 2024. that is clear. number one, there is a legal presumption under the speedy trial act. 70 days. that gives us october. number two, she said she cannot and will not factor the effect on political campaigns, john. that means she will treat him like any other defendant who has a day job. and then that comment, the more inflammatory remarks there are, the faster i'll schedule this trial because of the potential effect on the jury pool who makes more inflammatory comments than donald trump? all indications are that we are going to see this trial. i think probably the first of the major criminal trials of donald trump that will take place. >> thank you all for being with
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us. and a quick reminder, katelyn's guest at the top of the hour is abby lowell. the naming of a special council in the hunter biden probe. and what it could signal aere about prospects of a trial. we'll take that up next. that interview will be fascinating. breaking news out of maui. the death toll climbing steeply. new images from the scene we will bring you along with new reporting. at what may have been missed opportunities to prevent this growing tragedy. i remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. i would watch the flight attendants. if they're not nervous, then i'm not going to be nervous. financially, i'm the flight attendant in that situation.
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republican lawmakers got a they have long been asking for if not as quickly as they wanted. hunterbiden got a heap more to worry about and the prosecutor investigating the president's son got a new title. special council david weiss. what's more, literally, he asked for it. here to explain, cnn's sarah murray. what do we know about why attorney general garland decided to elevate david weiss to special council. >> reporter: frankly, there are not a lot of straight answers on this. we saw merrick garland gave this press conference where he cited the extraordinary circumstances around this case. and of course the president's son being investigated is extraordinary. but this has been going on five years and he said david weiss came to him earlier this week.
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and requested this special council designation. we saw there was a plea deal for hunter biden who was essentially going to get slapped with tax misdemeanor charges and have this diversion program to avoid a gun charge. but that still doesn't fully explain why at this point in the game, weiss wants the full powers of a special council. it would allow him to bring charges in any venue he wants. not just delaware where he is the u.s. attorney. >> what is the new special council saying about the status of the hunter biden case? as we said, hyraces minutes away. hunter biden at one point a few weeks ago was perhaps minutes away from completing this plea deal. >> reporter: yeah. and then things spectacularly fell apart. and what we learned in court filings is the newly designated special council saying behind the scenes, they have not been able to reach a new plea agreement with hunter biden's team. so weiss plans to go to trial.
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he is not doing that in delaware. likely dc or california. where crimes were committed or hunter biden has been residing. once you are designated special council, you can investigate anything that comes up. there has to be concern on this potentially ballooning as it goes on. >> sara murray, thank you. perspective from evan osnos. the life, the run, and what matters now. ashley allison who served on the 2020 biden campaign. how big is this news? the appointment of the special council? that plea deal negotiations have collapsed? >> substantively, it shouldn't change things. they have investigated this
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case for a half decade. it is a little bit puzzling what garland has done here. he could have appointed special council from day one if he wanted to do that. it is just not clear what has changed here. and actually, interestingly, the better designation would have been to make him a special attorney under the doj rags which gives him the ability to go to other venues. special council is usually someone chosen from outside doj. because you want the point to be an appearance woman impartiality. of impartiality. that is not the normal pick. it is pretty puzzling what is going on. >> the main reason we are told is david weiss asked for it. evan, president biden is
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obviously running for reelection. how is this going to be for him not to address this on the campaign trail? >> yeah. you know. just his nature. personal or political challenge or setback. he talks to the public. he will talk to columnists and authors and this is a case where his instincts essentially are not allowed. you know. he has been vigilant about not talking about this case. and anything but the most personal terms, just talking about the fact he supports his son who has gone through a difficult period. as the president often says he has put it behind him. the reality is you will see him draw a brighter line between making those kinds of personal statements as a father. and not wading into the questions of criminal justice in the same way he hasn't waded into the questions of criminal justice around his opponent donald trump. that's a line he has to be vigilant about not crossing. >> he says he has given garland
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the special counsel now. he has been very supportive of hunter biden as his son throughout this. congressional republicans, many of whom had been calling for a special counsel are now criticizing the appointment of u.s. attorney david weiss as special counsel. so what do you think is driving this? >> well the challenge for republicans is they continue to move the field goal so they say they want something. then they get it and then it is not good enough. the reason why i think they are doing that, though, is because their 2024 political strategy is to sow doubt in the american public about the value of our institutions and they were able to do that in my belief without credibility. but they were doing that before there was an equal special council on both sides. so the department of justice
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said fine. if there a question that weiss has had any issue with being able to run the investigation the way he wanted to be, if it gives people that comfort, that takes the wind out of the republican sales and that substantial. and so, they continue to move thefield goal and say that is not enough. >> it is worth saying weiss was a trump appointee. i want to go back to the notion that at one point a few weeks ago, hunter biden's team reasonably thought they were minutes away from this being over. how do you get from there to here and is this a failure over a defense strategy? >> i don't think it is a failure of a defense strategy. you have to put the blame on the prosecution here. that plea deal, there is an ambiguity as you know about what was really covered for
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hunter biden. would he be exposed in the future. ambiguity would have been good for the defense. they could say this violates the plea deal. it's the prosecution that needed to make sure they were very clear about what they were doing and they weren't able to answer the judge's inquiries about that. and that is why it collapsed. it places hunter biden in a difficult position. because it looks like they are amping up potential other charges to try to force him into pleaing. the issue here though is he is begging to plea. his defense team seems to want to take a plea deal. and it is just unclear what is really going to be holding that up. and so again, i really think this is an example of doj not having gotten their ducks in order and they could have done that. >> evan, how hard will it be for the biden team to come up with the strategy to deal with this? >> part of the reason they are in this moment is if you go back to the period we are talking about, 2014, 2015, when hunter biden was embarking on these business activities and
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unraveling personally, that was a time when some of his advisers didn't feel they could talk to the vice president about it. it is a very sensitive issue personally. but that is a different period now. and obviously they will have candid conversations about what is the political strategy. how do you be clear about your responsibilities as a father supporting your son and not playing into what ashley described as this effort to try to create an equivalence on republican side by saying their candidate is engulfed in investigations. but to date, we have to remind ourselves there has been no evidence that any of the business activities or anything that hunter biden was involved in benefited joe biden or he did anything to benefit those processes with the power of government. >> do you hear from any democrats getting nervous about this? >> no. just like donald trump's indictments actually increases polling numbers, i don't think
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it will be a detrimental effect. it is about his son and a father is allowed to love their son. >> thank you all very much. the breaking news out of hawaii. the death toll has risen to 67. we will take you to hard hit town of lahaina next. relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! ♪ ♪ ♪
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the state of hawaii's deadliest natural disaster. the death toll rose again 67 now confirmed dead. the government says that the fire is not yet contained. one of the hardest hit towns, of course, was lahaina. bill weir made it there by boat. this is his report. >> reporter: the trees that you guys see behind you, this was all from the tornado that came through. we have never seen a tornado in hawaii. >> reporter: in a place so familiar with weather extremes. maui locals have never seen anything like the fire storm that obliterated lahaina. >> within five minutes the whole thing was engulfed. there is nobody there to put anything out. >> we are pulling into lahaina now. getting our first glimpse of
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this town. it is worse than you can imagine. it looks like a world war ii set. like a bomb went off here. just utter devastation everywhere. melted boats in the harbor. what was once the capital of the kingdom love ohio, one of the most well preserved towns in the nation is ash. including bill weiland's famous art gallery. he says he escaped the flames on his harley davidson. trapped between fire and ocean. >> it was, i mean, flames were shooting over the top coming out. i didn't want to look behind me because i knew they were behind me. >> and there is nowhere to go. >> you are just pinned. that is what happened to all the people i think. all the cars that were waiting for someone to move in front of them. you were dead in the water. they all jumped in the ocean. a lot of them didn't make it. >> i'm sure if the winds are 80 miles per hour, the surf must have been. >> it wasn't just that. there is diesel fuel in the
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water as well. and the coast card couldn't come in too far because of the reefs and a lot of people can't swim that far. a lot of people died of smoke inhalation as well. they were inundated. >> i know a lady that stayed in the water eight hours. >> reporter: this is the historic banyon tree. at the center of the lahaina town. it looks like it may have survived. for the people looking at the damage, this is such a sign of hope that maybe their iconic tree will have lived when so much is gone. right over here was the library. it is just now a stone shell. of scorched blocks. fleetwoods.
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his place is gutted out with flames. it is unrecognizable. it is scorched like a bomb went off. farmer eddie garcia lost a fortune in crop damage but the bracing for much bigger losses. >> when i was down there early. there were uncles and people i know in the street. trying to get to the end of the street. they say hundreds of people jumped in the water. >> you personally lost crops? >> i lost nothing compared to what people lost. i lost farm stuff and food. and whatever. tiny little things compared to what people lost. people lost their family. they lost their houses. everything we have seen. all the landmarks we have seen. history. it is all gone.
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>> it is all gone. bill joins me now. residents of west maui will be allowed back in the area today. what have residents done without access to their homes? >> it certainly ramped up the uncertainty and fear. this is what it looks like since they opened up lahaina now to residents. miles long line of cars here. and this sort of sheds a light on the difficulty of the evacuation. when the grass was burning. over here, we have a sample of what was the fuel of this fire. invasive grasses and what was years, years generations ago, tropical forest here. but with those massive winds turning this into a blow torch bringing down power lines. blocking roads. they are really preparing for the worst. we have seen this when you don't have information. people fear the worst.
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a lot of people turn up okay. folks here are bracing for this not only to be the deadliest fire in hh history, but the deadliest in american history. >> let's hope it doesn't get there. bill, thank you very much for all your work. behind every house and store front burn, there is a story, a family who lost a home full of memories. a business owner whose years of hard work literally went up in flames and my next guest suffered that loss. ruby mazer known for the first mouth and tongue created for the rolling stones featured prominently on the tumbling dice record sleeve in 1971. he was about to open a new gallery front street. 100 of his paintings were los. ruby joins me now. thanks for taking the time to talk to us. we are so sorry for everything
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you lost. can you explained what happened tuesday. your sons were at your gallery on front street preparing for its grand opening right? >> correct. we have been waiting for this maui location right next to fleetwoods. we moved a gallery from waikiki over to maui. we shipped over 100 paintings here. i live up in kula, up country. and my three sons have been working in the track lining and the painting tanned building. hanging the paintings. monday night, they were in the gallery. and people were coming in already saying i want to buy
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this. i want to buy this. and my son said you know what? my dad is going to be here tomorrow night. you bought from him before. you would love to say hello to you. come back tomorrow for the grand opening. tomorrow. so he said okay. and, the next day, i was up in my house and the winds were like 100 miles per hour. and i have 150-pound mastiff that could barely walk. and my son called and said dad, it is really getting bad. i said better come on back here, it is not looking good here either: they tried to get out of lahaina and they were closing down the road because
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of the flames. they got out. it was a miracle they got out. they came up to my house and they saw all the furniture on my deck. everything was being thrown around like toothpicks. dad, we have to go now. if it's going to get really bad, let's get a hotel room. not one hotel had a room available. we were calling 15 hotels. not one room. so my other son said you know what? , let's get a u-haul. i said okay. we got two u-hauls, we went to wal-mart, bought blow up beds, we had four dogs in the car. we bought two blow up beds, blankets, sheets, pillows. bottles of water. and we went, took the two u- hauls to the parking lot of the
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airport to sleep there. and the next thing we knew, lahaina was gone. lahaina was completely gone. my lifelong work of 50 years, painting rock stars, gone. and i have been having calls from people from all over the world. and last night, one collector called back and she said this painting we bought from you a couple of years ago, we paid a lot of money for it. we would like to send it back to you so you can sell it and get some money. people are amazing. >> i can't imagine what it is like for you now. when you saw the images of front street. not just your gallery in ruins, but all your art work gone. what went through your mind?
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>> well, john, they gave me six months to live. and i had a bout of throat cancer so i figured if i could beat cancer three times, nothing could take me down. and then, losing my life's work, and almost losing my three sons on front street, it's a lot to take. a lot to take. and a little ray of sunshine as i went up the back road today to see if my house was in ashes as well. and i pulled up around the corner and it was smoky and stinky from the fire. and there was my house
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standing. it did not burn down. among all the downed trees and power lines. and my house is still there. >> we wish you all the best. i know that so many of your fans will rally around you in this time of need. so all the best to you, ruby. to you and your family, be well. >> john, thank you very much. one final and terribly important note here, how to help. you can find out all the information in one place on cnn.com/impact. again, that is cnn.com/impact. coming up, with a record breaking death toll, questions are mounting on could more have been done to prevent this disaster and were there warning signs missed? cnn's investigative unit digs into that next. al offer.
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he's cocky for a nineteen year old. as the death toll rises to 67 and the destruction of hawaii comes into focus, questions are emerging about not just what can be done to prevent the next tragedy, but could any more have been done to prevent this one? officials in hawaii underestimated the deadly threat of wild fires. meantime, a maui county report from 2021 acknowledged that while the number of acres consumed by wild fires had spiked, that the funds to fight
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them were quote inadequate. here is cnn's chief investigative correspondent pamela brown with more. >> reporter: cnn is learning hawaii officials underestimated the risk of wild fires in a recent report. even as other documents show officials knew they lacked resources to prevent and fight fires. >> we had advance notice coming into this summer, this week, the winds, the low humidity, and the fuels. any ignition would have sparked a pretty big fire. that is exactly what we saw. >> reporter: in a state report out just last year, ranking natural disasters, hawaii officials classified the wild fire risk to human life as low. in this color coded chart. the assessment, though, coming years after hurricane lane fanned the flames of fires in hawaii ravaging maui and owahu in 2018. the storm of conditions highlighted the threat and how unprepared officials in hawaii
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were dealing with such a disaster. with the county report in 2021 noting hurricane lane made small fires swell and stretch public safety resources. with strong winds grounding air support. that storm should have been a wakeup call according to this planning document. other state and local documents show hawaii lagged behind in preparedness for the devastating wild fires leaving countless people missing. a cruel deja vu for some residents. >> four years ago, we had another hurricane. and we lost their house in the fire. rebuild and what happened yesterday is killing me right now. we just lost our house again. twice in four years. >> reporter: a 2021 or makes
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the troubling point that despite the increasing number of wild fires, fire prevention was given short in a strategic plan. the plan included nothing about what can and should be done to prevent fires which it called a significant oversight. >> given how catastrophic this thing was, i think there will be a lot of pressure on the state and other organizations to improve their fire prevention. actions that they were taking statewide. >> reporter: it comes as maui has faced increasing drought conditions in recent years. contributing to warnings like this. in a may webinar with the hawaii wild firemannagement organization. >> hawaii has a being wild fire problem. >> reporter: now residents are
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left to rebuild again as the threat of future disasters looms with no clear plan in place. >> i know what i need to do and we have done it before. this sucks. >> reporter: it is unclear whether additional preparation or mitigation could reduce the amount of devastation and damage we have seen from these lahaina wild fires. as for responsibility, the governor of hawaii tells cnn the responsibility falls on all of us. john? >> all right, pam brown, thank you very much. iowa presidential politics next. and republican candidates search for the biggest as yet elusive endorsement there.
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the whole story with anderson cooper, sunday at 8:00 on cnn. former president trump and gov. ron desantis are set to attend the iowa state fair. at a campaign stop he said he was expecting to bring state lawmakers to the fair who have endorsed him. this comes days after sources told cnn the former president is expected to bring several republican congressman from florida who endorsed him over ron desantis, their governor.
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the most public endorsement in iowa has stayed on the sidelines. that is popular to turn governor, reynolds. >> reporter: governor kim reynolds reveling in the iowa state fair and the republican presidential race. she's at the center of both. >> this is a metaphor for all the candidates in the race. >> getting them to participate and do what they need to do. >> sizing up the field along the way but stay neutral, at least for now. >> it's really important that they feel that they have a fair shot there welcome here in iowa and i one i went to have the chance to interact. >> i don't think you should ever say never.
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we will wait and see what happens but i have made it clear. we are probably looking at neutral, especially at the beginning. it's naturally going to start to narrow and then we will take a look at where it's at. it's early for that. >> reynold wants republicans to find the strongest candidate to win the white house. she believes the race is far from settled. >> it so early, i can tell you it's not reflective of what i am hearing from iowans if i am traveling around. >> >> she invited the candidates to join her onstage at the fair.
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paul said yes except former president donald trump who has been lashing out credit for reynolds election and attacking her for not reporting him. reynolds, i was first female governor's mild and took exception to that. >> it's actually iowans who made the decision to elect me in a really tough year. 22 he was not a good year for republicans. i squeaked by. >> reporter: the 2018 midterms were a referendum on tron. trumps attacks on her are now part of an ad for desantis. her once close relationship with trump has grown more complicated. >> do you think republicans are wrong to see as the inevitable nominee? >> our job is not to pick -- >> the forme r
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>> i can tell you're talking to many of them here this week at the fair and for the last several months there are many republicans who are looking to turn a page. of course trump has many true supporters as well but five months before the iowa caucuses history will tell that there might be surprises as the governor said so trump here tomorrow, ron desantis as well. this race is heating up and voters are starting to pay attention. >> in queue. we will be right back. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active, she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family.
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