[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. and thank you so much for joining us tonight. cnn prime time with abby philip, starts right now. hey kaitlan, thank you so much. and good evening everyone, i'm abby philip. welcome to cnn prime time. the clock is now ticking. donald trump and 18 codefendants have just ten days now to turn themselves in,

after being indicted in georgia on serious criminal charges. the former president is accused now of being the head of a criminal enterprise to overturn joe biden's victory in that state. and tonight, a local sheriff says that he is expected to be -- out of fulton county jail. so, what is going on right now in trump's world, with just ten days to go until surrender? we also have news on mark meadows, making a last-ditch attempt to get the case against him in georgia dismissed. we will dig into all of that tonight. plus, the 45th president united states, now faces a stunning 91 criminal charges amidst for separate cases. and will be tied up in multiple courtrooms throughout his presidential cycle, all of these running for a second term so what should the gop do, if their front runner has now been indicted four times over? we will talk to new hampshire governor chris sununu, one of the former president's most vocal critics in the republican party. and it, was one of the most

defining images of the civil rights movement, a 15 year old elizabeth -- one of the little rock nine making her way through an angry mob as they integrated that whites only a high school. and now, 66 years, later there is a new battle over black history in the state of arkansas. we will talk to little rock school board member tonight, about all that. but let's begin that with trump, in the world scrambling with just ten days to surrender to the george authorities. here is me now is cnn -- former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, former federal prosecutor elliott williams, and former trump attorney tim parlatore. tim, i want to start with you. you have a special insight into this of course. we are learning tonight about what could happen in the next ten days or so. a surrender to fulton county officials. the sheriff says he's gonna have to go to a county jail, basically. what do you expect to happen, if you are his attorneys, is it something you get over with, or you wait until the last second here?

>> i think that they're probably going to want to wait to the last second, just because what we've seen consistently throughout these cases is, the game of -- trying to delay it out a little more. and so if they have ten days and you surrender on the first day, if you're trying to drag the case out past the election, when i take the extra ten days. if it wasn't a case where you had an election, i would put my client in today. but, that's different, that's a different calculus. >> yeah and of course, between today and the very last possible day, which is next friday, there is a presidential debate. but, another topic just today on the legal front. we have mark meadows, he is indicted in georgia. and now, his attorneys have now filed a motion to have this case -- to a federal court. what do you make of that legal move? and you think it will be successful? >> i do. i was expecting this kind of

from the beginning, that i think donald trump and mark meadows will both file removals to have it taken to the federal court. if you look at the attempt to move the alvin bragg case to federal court, and you read the decision by judge -- their. he lays out the standard. and when you read it you alvin bragg's case needs to stay in the state court. but, fani willis's case actually does belong in a federal court, because it really does deal with these two federal officials, related to things that they were doing while in office. and he is physically in the oval office as he is doing this stuff. so i suspect that will be successful. now, that doesn't remove fani willis from the case. it is still the same prosecutor, still the same defense, still the same defense attorney, still the same indictment. just a different, building different judge, different jury pool. >> what do you make of that, andrew? >> i think, i think for president trump, mark meadows, and also jeffrey clark will be crazy not to make that move. i think they probably have a good chance of succeeding. but not a guaranteed shot at succeeding, particularly the

former president. i mean he has to, under supreme court precedent, he has to be able to show not only that he was an officer of the court, but that he has a -- federal defense. i think are some questioning whether or not the defense, if he predicates that on a claim of federal immunity, i think it's questionable as to whether or not federal immunity would cover his actions, as described in this indictment. clearly, he was not acting under any federal authority, it was likely far beyond the scope of his duties as president, in meddling with the election in georgia. so, it's not a guaranteed win for him, but they will absolutely make the motion, and they could succeed. >> and perhaps maybe the more surprising thing is that meadows was the first person to do it, and not trump's attorneys. tim, just broadly speaking, the charges that that he is facing here in georgia, putting aside the issue of which venue it is tried in. if your his attorney, which you are not anymore, for a number of reasons. what would you say, to mount this defense of this former

president? >> you know this case, more so than some of the others, i think when i read through the indictment, as i saw a lot of potential legal attacks. before even get to the merits. the use of the rico statute, in this instance is unique. and, i think that they're gonna have some problems, especially if they give it over to the federal court. because rico has an element of continuity to it. where you have an organization, an enterprise that is engaging in a series of racketeering acts, as part of a continuing course of conduct. like a mafia family, or an organized crime game it seems that. but here, it's all focused on a singular event, which is the election. and so i think that, when you do bring it over to a federal court, and they start to apply some of the federal rico stands to it, that's going to become problematic. also reading through the pattern of racketeering activity, i think there are ways that you can attack that, really on a motion to dismiss on the structural side, before

you even get to the merits. and so, i want to see how much he could cut away there. you also have the issue of fani willis, she's a county district attorney. a lot of the stuff didn't happen in her county. coffee county, there's a separate da for that. >> yeah but, as she pointed out, there's stuff in the indictment that happened in other states. and that's not the say that their charged specifically with all these things. but that, they are part of the conspiracy. and i see elliott frantically -- [laughter] >> she needs to use the rico before that. >> what's your take on that defense that you heard from tim? >> i think, you do have a continuing course of conduct. and i think a court could find that the course of conduct started back in june of 2020, culminated in the election, and continued on through, certainly the january 6th and even today. so, there is at least an argument that, there is continuing course of conduct. look i'm with you, that it is

an aggressive way to charge an individual. but, i think we have in our heads that rico racketeering, if it's corrupt organizations and prosecutions, are for mafia families and so on. and the way the georgia statute is written, it's broader than the federal statute, as we also heard talked about here. and perhaps, all these things can be brought in. but all these questions, including that removal of the federal courtroom, which i'm not totally agree with either view on either. it may actually end up staying in georgia state court. it's just, a complicated legal question that no one touched yet. and, it's going to be litigated. >> can i just say for the record? when you listen to that phone call asking for those 11,780 votes. it sounds an awful lot like mafia case. >> yeah. >> and that is for a jury, a kind of crystal clear piece of evidence. >> i've represented gangsters, they're a lot more vague than that. [laughter] >> but even if it's not mafioso talk or whatever, that is not a president of the united states.

it is a candidate for office, it is an individual who is running for office. now, this question of moving it to federal court requires shim to be acting in his capacity as president. now, where the president ends and the man begins, the candidate begins, and the president ends, is blurry, in a court is gonna have to sort that out. by just something it's entirely cut and blot dry -- >> jamie, i want to give you a moment here for rudy giuliani, who was all over this indictment as well. he is being charged in a rico statute, which he basically pioneered. and then on top of that, we hear today that he is basically broke. these legal fees are piling up. what has happened to the man once known as america's mayor? >> he also said today that he hasn't changed, that he is still the same man. i interviewed rudy, as we called him when he was mayor, many times. if rudy has not changed in all these years, we didn't know him very well back then. look, i have several close friends who worked with him, he

is a different person today. and this is, he was a character when he was mayor, and he was a tough guy. and he liked to litigate, so he was, he was always an interesting person. but not the person we're seeing today, and i think this is tragic, actually. >> one of the most unforgettable moments of the saga is that press conference at the rnc, with giuliani, with sweat dripping down his face. i mean it was just such a moment. and actually interestingly enough, it's in the indictment in georgia, part of the evidence against him in this case. thank you all for being here tonight. and coming up next for us, what should the gop do about a front runner who is now facing 91 criminal charges across four separate cases? well, governor chris sununu is here to weigh in, next. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all.

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oh, booking.com ♪ somewhere, anywhere... ♪ ♪ i just want to lie motionless in a chair! ♪ booking.com, booking.yeah ♪ ♪ >> we're following the latest reaction in the republican party to the stunning fourth indictment of former president trump by a georgia grandeur. now, trump's biggest critics of the 2024 primary race offered mixed reactions today. i want to bring in one of the former president's most outspoken critics himself, the new hampshire governor, chris new. so, governor sununu, thank you for being here. what was your reaction when you looked at, i don't know if you've read all 98 pages, this

indictment coming out of georgia's fulton county? >> well, i'll disagree with you on one thing. i don't think a stunning. i think we all knew it was stunning. even the former president said, you know, fourth indictment would only help. and so, from a political standpoint, i don't think many folks on the republican side are shocked by this. i don't think abuses numbers anymore. and he kind of has a lot of that building sympathy vote there. but his point, it helps some, because this is all the medias talking about. as long as you guys, not you, cnn, the media, and understandably so, from eight pm to 11 pm every night saying his name 100 times and not really giving any air time to these other candidates, that's exactly what the former president wants, because he was want to have to talk about issues, he doesn't want to talk about going forward and healing america and all these things for the rest of america wants to see. he wants to relitigate the past, and we're kind of letting him do that, which is unfortunate. i think -- changes as we hit the debates. >> i hear what you're, saying but i think the question was actually more about the conduct alleged in the indictment. if you look at the sheer number

of people charged in the georgia case, you are talking about 18 trump allies, including trump himself, and they're accused of racketeering, and at least one related crime. there's a lot of conduct alleged here, including trying to tamper with voting machines and actual voting information. what is your take on the actual information contained this document? >> so, a couple of things. i'm not a lawyer, but i will say, this is incredibly similar to the federal indictment, right, that jack smith is doing out of doj. other than as you brought up, there is now 18 people involved. that's a much bigger swath of individuals. and something that i think republicans need to take note of, this is a grand jury in a very conservative state that said this guy needs to be indicted. this isn't just the department of justice in the idea that it's all politicized. this is the grand jury in georgia, of all states. which again, kind of doubled down on the idea that this guy can't win in november. we might give him the nomination, i hope we don't.

but this guy cannot win in a state like georgia. he cannot win in a state like arizona or new hampshire, or the swing states that you absolutely have to have. and last time i checked, you can't govern if you don't win. this is going to be another sub story for donald trump. and he's gonna crush the republican ticket going down. so, i'm very hopeful still that they're owns as a whole make us our choice and find that one or two candidates to go against him by the time i want to hunter hit. >> trump is the nominee, what republican voters do, in your opinion? i mean, for indictments in, he will probably be an at least one dose trials. what should they do? what will you do if he's the nominee? >> well, look, that reality wouldn't come to bear. if it did, and i don't think it will, it won't come to bear until about a year for now. so, the whole political dynamic is going to change. is joe biden even on the taken by? then what have the democrats done by then? what are they alternatives by land? -- there will be all these other what ifs, what if this, what if. and then each voters would have to decide. that's actually the beauty of our system. we might completely disagree

with voters, even sometimes in our own party. but it's their choice to make. and it's america's choice to make. >> one of the candidates in the race, ron desantis, is saying that this indictment is helping trump. and he may be right. if you look at some of the polling, a pullen marts show that trump and desantis were just about four points away. and more recently in the new york times, a cnn poll found that trump had a massive lead over desantis. it's only grown. but i wonder, do you think that's true, that the indictments are the reason that he's winning? or is the failure of candidates like desantis and others to -- >> of course, of course. >> or is it the failure of other candidates to launch a strong campaign against him? >> well, look, i think, i think there's too many candidates in the race. i think most people would agree. i think it's diluted message. i think a lot of them have a hard time, not just -- they spend time defending themselves and policy, i think they're missing about their. they need to show leadership,

inspiration, something people can galvanize and get excited about, right. they have our interest, not to have to get us excited as republicans in the party. but there is no doubt that these four indictments have definitely built a lot of sympathy for the former president. he knows how to use the media to his advantage incredibly, incredibly well. i'll give him all the credit in the world on that. he knows how to take something bad, make it good, build sympathy and empathy onto himself. he plays this victim role. the guy is literally a victim, right, at this point, which is crazy if you know his background understand who he really is. but he's been able to play that very well. and national, i mean, it's not so much new hampshire and iowa, because the polls locally here are very different and what you see nationally, but nationally, the average republican is just seeing what they see on the news, and they're not seeing any other candidates. no one is giving the other candidates airtime. no one's given the other candidates -- >>, while i disagree with you on that. >> i have to disagree -- >> other candidates are getting plenty of airtime, it's a question of what are they doing with that airtime. >> no, they don't get any air time.

>> many of them have been on this very channel. >> every station tonight and the next night and the next night will say trump to -- trump's name 100 times. and you have one candidate on there, one candidate there, he's getting 98% of the attention. let me ask you this. look, next week, trump says he's going to hold a press conference about the george indictment. he says he's going to prove that there is voter fraud. what should the response of the other candidates in this race be to that? it is 2023. trump is going to hold a press conference next monday about the 2020 presidential election. >> so, i honestly don't believe from a purely political standpoint that their responses want to move their numbers one way or a another. i just don't. these candidates have to make their own news. there to show you something about who they are in terms of leadership. and if it's only based on donald trump, and again, they're giving trump all the airtime. they're only creating themselves in based on his

image and his likeness and how they compare to that. so, trump love that. your playing right into his hand if you think every candidate should only be out there taking outside on trump or not. they gotta be themselves -- >> it's not that they're taking a side. i don't think it's about taking a side on trump. it's a question taking a side on whether what he's saying is true or false. before you go, governor, just a final question, i mean, we were getting at this earlier, four indictments in, if trump is the nominee, will you vote for him? >> again, i don't think he's going to be the nominee. and that's a question from a year from now, when 100 other variables will come into play. i don't say, whether i vote for him or another person for him, i'm not a candidate. so, that doesn't really matter, if i may. what matters is what happens v now and then, how we narrow the field down a bunch of republicans, how we get the majority of republicans in the country a very clear choice as opposed to 11 candidate trump. so, that's all that really matters between now and then. and how these candidates, to your point, stand on their own, create their own news, create

their own inspiring moments that people say, you know, what there is the one, there is the one individual we can narrow this down to. trump can take his 40% of the vote and go home. we'll take a 60% with the southern candidate and actually have something for the future of america. >> you are not a candidate, you're right, but you are a citizen, like so many others, watching this program. and i think it is interesting that you won't say that you will rule out voting for trump, even though you are making such a -- >> because i don't know. >> even oh you're making such an argument. >> i don't know. are you going to vote for joe biden? are you want to vote for joe biden if he's indicted on bribery? >> [laughter] well -- >> i mean, so much could change between now and next year. >> well, that's one way of looking at it. governor chris enugu, thank you for joining us, i appreciate it. >> there you go. >> as the tale have two indictments, two different approaches to indicting the former president. the state charges over georgia, over in georgia, over trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. and then over there, the federal charges, also for trump's election subversion efforts. we'll discuss the difference

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a georgia grand jury indicted former president trump over his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election there. this latest indictment is quite different from what special counsel jack smith brought down in the january 6th case earlier this month. let's take a closer look at why. first, there are the sheer and were people implicated here this year's sixth case. only trump is named as a defendant at the federal level, while in the georgia case trump and 18 other defendants, including allies like mark meadows and rudy giuliani and also john eastman are named as

well. next there is the difference in the charges being brought. the january 6th case only lists for, compared to georgia which has a whopping 41. and finally, there is the conversation around potential pardons. now, if donald trump wins the presidency in 2024, there is a chance that he could try to pardon himself if he is convicted in the january 6th case. but those pardoning powers, they don't extend to state crimes, meaning he couldn't pardon himself if he's convicted in georgia. and the state's government couldn't pardon him either. for more on this, i want to bring in democratic congressman jamie raskin, he served on the january 6th select committee. congressman raskin, think of joining us tonight. look, these indictments are so different, 45 pages versus 98 pages. a veritable tome in georgia. willis really is alleging this broad conspiracy, over 100

different acts that are allegedly in furtherance of that conspiracy. jack smith basically took a very narrow path, he focused on trump himself. i wonder, do you have any concerns that the georgia indictment just might be a little too broad? >> well, it is broad in terms of the number of charges when you are talking about 41 charges. but it is really identified the crimes down at the molecular level, false statements to the government, false documentary submissions, forgeries, solicitation of public officials to violate their oath of office, conspiracy to do defraud the people of georgia of their election and so on. it is very specific and dense in terms of what the charges are and linking those to specific acts. there are more than 150 specific actions that were

already alleged as part of the indictment. whereas in the federal case of course you had the more general statement of the conspiracy to defraud the american people and cheat us out of our election. the conspiracy to interfere with the federal proceeding and the conspiracy to violate everybody's civil rights, specifically the right to vote and choose our own leaders. so, i view it more as the federal indictment being much more of a macro statement of what was going on with the conspiracy, and then the rico charges relating to the conspiracy in georgia being a far more dense and molecular reconstruction of exactly what happened and how it violated the state laws for the people of georgia. >> while you are on the january 6th committee, you all had some run ins with the former chief of staff, mark meadows. he initially cooperated and then stopped, basically, cooperating. why do you think it ended up

that fani willis was able to charge mark meadows in her indictment, but special counsel jack smith didn't? either he chose not to or believed, perhaps, he could not for some reason. >> well, i don't know the answer to your question, but i am suing that they have a lot more factual information and testimony about what his role actually was. interestingly, a few hours ago, i believe that mr. meadows petitioned for removal of this case under a statute which allows federal officials in certain circumstances to remove cases from state court to federal court, if they were acting under the color of federal law in execution of their federal duties. so, what is curious to me about that is that he has to be, essentially, alleging an argument that he was acting on presidential orders to do everything that he did within the confines of his job.

in other words who is not acting as a campaign volunteer after hours on a lincolns, but rather was executing the orders of don trump. so we will see what happens, he may have a plausible case for getting it removed. it is interesting that he once to get out of state court and fly back to the safety of the federalist society packed federal courts. in any event, i believed in the 11th circuit where the court is considering another rico action, which was donald trump's rico lawsuit against hillary clinton, which was thrown out of the district court level, which is now being considered by the 11th court. but we are getting so much donald trump litigation and prosecution where he has other defendant, the plaintiffs might argue different sides on the same legal issue in different cases that are appearing in

various circuits. he is a one man crime wave and he is going to be in his own law school seminar one day. >> one of the other things i want to ask you about, i know that you dealt with as well, this is trump's speech on the ellipse on january 6th. fani willis called that speech an overt act of that conspiracy, that rico conspiracy. is it a risk to go there when it comes to criminal charges? doesn't veer into free speech territory? if she raises what he said on that ellipse that day? >> if that is all she was hanging her hat on and that's the only action being alleged, then it would obviously invite the first amendment struggle. of course, under the brandenburg decision, incitement to imminent lawless action is not protected under the first amendment. in any case, that's not the only action by a long shot. they have got 161 different specific actions that are alleged and, of course, speech

makes up the course of conduct constituting a lot of crimes. for example, if you think about it antitrust collusion conspiracy, where businesses get together to set prices, that cannot take place without speech. when you think about insider trading and people conspiring to give secrets about what is taking place inside company, that can't take place without speech. so you don't zero in, microscopically, and just look at the speech. you see it's part of a pattern of conduct that adds up to violation of the law. she is alleging a lot of different criminal actions way beyond his speech at the ellipse, which as i said before, is not necessarily itself protected under the first amendment because, to my mind, it did incite imminent lawless action.. and the proof of that is the fact that 150 of our police officers were bloodied and wounded by the mob that he sent down at the capitol. >> congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much for joining

us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> and 2024 candidates are reacting to this latest indictment of former president trump, what they are saying, next. so i called innovation refunds. their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. listen up, you dogs with allergic itch! today's talking lesson is just one word: apoquel. ap--o--quel. ♪ you can't teach your itchy dog to talk... ...so, talk to your vet about apoquel. apoquel is for the control of allergic itch in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs with serious infections. apoquel may increase the chances of developing serious infections... ...and may cause existing parasitic skin infections

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rival, ron desantis, is once again refusing to go after him for his ongoing legal troubles. when he was asked about this on a new england radio station that desantis called it an example of, quote, the criminalization of politics. a lot of trump's other 2024 rivals are singing basically the same tune. let's bring in cnn senior political commentator and former republican congressman adam kinzinger, and also former white house communications director kate bedingfield. so, kate, i want to ask you about what a presidential candidate chris christie also said this week. basically, christie has been one of the people most strongly criticizing trump, but here's what he said about this latest georgia indictment.

>> i'm uncomfortable with what i read last night. i think that this conduct is basically covered by the federal indictment. election interference is election interference, it's been charged by jack smith. i would have less of a problem with this if she decide, okay, i'm not going to charge donald trump here because he's been charged, essentially this conduct, by jack smith. but giuliani and meadows and others have not been charged at the federal level. that would be a more defensible indictment, i think. >> did that surprise you, to see chris christie taking that stance? >> well, the digital bit. because these comments and obviously the comments of governor desantis and many of the other candidates who are running, republican candidates who are running for the nomination, sound like people who are resigned to donald trump being the nominee. i think, this really underscores how much this is donald trump's party. we have evidence over the course of the last, you know, a

couple of years that show just appalling behavior by former president. and you have a handful of elected officials who say they want to be the standard bearer of the party in 2024 who are unwilling to take that on. i think there's certainly a moral component that. but also from political standpoint, from history teacher standpoint, the dynamic of the race is not going to change unless someone takes it to donald trump and really meaningful way. and this is an opportunity to do that. it is the governor christie sort of back off as some of the tougher things he said about don trump over the past few weeks, few months, i think shows you where the republican party, where these candidates believe the race is going. >> adam, do you think there is a path here for republicans to address this directly head on, as kate said, while also getting vote that they need to potentially become the nominee? >> well, if they all did it and actually lead, like the word

leadership means, to lead, and told the base of voter that donald trump is corrupt, which we all know, they all know, they all know he's corrupt, they know he broke the law. everyone kind of jump off the cliff and tell the voters the truth, yeah, there be a path, because people would listen to them. but instead, i mean, it's amazing to me when people are sitting around reading the stuff about donald trump and they're probably open to maybe this was wrong, maybe this is corrupt. and they see ron desantis stand up and say this is a weaponization of the doj. of course they're going to believe it's weaponization of the doj, because they trust ron desantis, they trust him scott, they trust these people. these people that are running for president are failing their voters. they're not leading their voters. every day that goes by, when i watch people like desantis and tim in everything say, oh, this is just weaponization, it just

blows my mind. i'm like, why are you even running? just endorsed donald trump, work for him, and trying it in the cabinet. because you know this is corrupt. the people that vote republican, i think their hearts, obviously very good people. but they have been so misled that, you know, yes, everyone's responsible for they believe. but to an extent, i'm like, if all your leaders are telling you the doj has been weaponized, i guess it's fair to believe it. >> one of the things about this grand jury indictment in georgia is it actually lists the names of the jurors, the grand jurors, who are part of it. it's not meant to be secret in that state. and predictably, on truth social, there's all this chatter about these individuals. adam, quickly, i mean, what do you make of that? i'm sure you can imagine what is being said about these individuals online. >> oh, look, i look at the stuff online, i see what's that about me, i can see what's said

about them. this is really dangerous. and i get it it's the georgia law. but these people need to be very careful. and they shot security around them, because it doesn't mean that everybody that loves donald trump is going to go out and be violent, but if just 0.5%, or 0.25% think violence is the answer, they're gone to go after these folks. this is very scary if you see what's being said on social >> kate, awe look at the counter he, e first republican debate is just about week away now. and you, know trump has to turn himself in by friday. earlier in the program, tim parlatore, one of his former attorneys says he's probably not wait until the vy st second, which would be after that debate. i wonder, if you are the biden caaign, what's the strategy here? is it just to let this all play out? is it to weaponize this in some way? >> well, i think what the biden campaign will do is just continue to demonstrate the contrast. i mean, i will tell you what we saw on the campaign in 2019 and

2020 consistently in polling and focus groups in our internal data on the campaign was that people were really put off by the sense of chaos around donald trump. and you know, particularly independent voters, swing voters, to the extent that there are really swing voters left in this moment in our politics. but people really put off. and so, the best thing the biden campaign can do and what i imagine they will do is let it play out. because, you know, whether donald trump is physically at that debate or not, he will be at that that debate. the specter of donald trump will be hanging over that debate. and when you're preparing for a presidential primary debate, you're thinking about what are the one or two narratives i could possibly grasp moving out of the debate, coming out of the debate. there are only a limited number of headlines available, sort of the way this works. so, every candidate is trying to think through how they can land their moment. and so, donald trump is guaranteed to be one of those storylines coming out of that debate. whether he's on the stage or not. so, the rest the candidates

going after work through how they can steal a moment for themselves. but the biden campaign, the best thing they can do, and what i expect they will do, is to stand back, let it happen, and let people see whether looking party stands for right now. >> yeah, and of course, that's part of the calculus, with trump saying maybe he'll be there, maybe he won't. kate bedingfield and adam kinzinger, thank you both very much. >> thanks, abby. >> and up next, in arkansas public schools, to now being told by the state department of education that this new ap african american studies class may not meet the graduation requirements in the state. up next, i'll speak with a little rock school board member who opposes that abrupt change. so why do we leave so much untapped potential on the table? this is a next level bed, for a next level you. my circadian rhythm is kicking your circadian rhythms butt! it's not a competition. i know, but i'm still winning! so, it is a competition.

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>> it's the latest conflict

over the teaching of black history america. the arkansas department of education told school districts that the ap african american studies course may not meet graduation acquirement. state tells us it's because it's a pilot course and is still undergoing revisions. but going to new york times, the education department is suggesting that this course may violate state law, after legislation known as the learns act was passed back in march, that expansive law encompassed a wide range of provisions. it prohibits, quote, teaching that indoctrinate students with ideologies such as critical race theory. now, the state's governor, sarah huckabee sanders has been a vocal critic of what she calls indoctrination in schools. >> we have to make sure we are not indoctrinating our kids and these policies in these ideas never see the light a day. we should never teach our kids to hate america, or that

america is a racist and evil country. >> and joining me now is attorney and school board member for the little rock school district aly nolin. she's representing two plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the learns act. ali, thank you for joining us. i wonder, do you believe that this apr freakonomics studies course does violate the text of that new state law, the learns act? >> absolutely not. this course is an essential an important part of american history. but what it does is provide students with original documents so that they can learn the critical thinking skills to be able to interpret and make their own decisions about these topics. so, it is the opposite of indoctrination. >> now, cnn spoke with the communications director for governor huckabee sanders, and she pointed out that this is a

pilot class, that african american history, a separate class, is already offered in arkansas schools. she tweeted something to that effect yesterday as well. do you think that is the real reason that this course is not basically being endorsed by the state for students to get credit towards graduation for? >> no, i do not. we have seen this course piloted in arkansas last year successively. the students who took it last year were able to use it for graduation credit. this change came abruptly this weekend. you know, the weekend before school started in arkansas. and in fact, in a statement yesterday, the arkansas department of education specifically said they are prohibited topics that can be taught under arkansas law and cited that language. so, i believe that that is actually what this is about, the fact that this is an

african american studies course. >> this is obviously unfolding in arkansas, and little rock is the home of the central high school. that's the scene of this major battle over school desegregation. hopefully, students across the country are learning about the little rock nine. i wonder, what has been the reaction in the state to black history becoming the subject of this kind of controversy? >> the people i've spoken to are extremely frustrated and angry. this course, we had almost 100 students enrolled and ready to take this course at central little rock high school this school year. and we have -- you know, we want to provide our students with every opportunity. other students and other states are able to take ap courses and gain all the benefits, things like obtaining college credit and waited gpa is. and here in arkansas, now

because of this decision, the only students who might be ill to take this course are students who can afford to forego a graduation credit for a yearlong course like this. and so, especially here, i cannot think of anywhere that it is more important to study this history that in the classroom and little rock central high school, a national historic site based on its role in american history and a civil rights movement. >> all right, ali no land, thank you very much for joining us tonight and sharing that perspective. coming up ahead on cnn, cnn tonight with laura coats. she sits down with hollywood legend morgan freeman. they're gonna discuss his latest project on the original black panthers. that's next.

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>> that's it for me on cnn prime time. cnn tonight with laura coates starts right now. take it away, laura. >> so nice to see you, abby philip, always a great show. and good evening everyone, i am laura coates. and tonight, the explosive fourth indictment of donald trump and 18 of his allies in georgia. it's moving pretty fast, and they have just days to turn themselves in. it's coming up next friday. we've got a great lineup of smart and thoughtful voices, jamele javid, kara swisher,

matt lewis, when he's fleming, daniel dale, and my interview with the one and only morgan freeman. but first, an ironic twist everyone. before 9/11, and of course, before becoming trump's wing man, a man by the name of rudy giuliani made his name for putting mobsters behind bars. he did so, i might add, using the very same laws that are being used against him. twdecades ago, he actually wrote on his book in leadership, and i'm quing here, i dreamed up the tactic of using the federal racketeer influence and corruption organizations act to prosecute the mafia leadership, unquote, otherwise known as rico, for those following along. at the time, the law was actually relatively new. giuliani, well, he popularized it, making it the model for state and federal prosecutors for decades to come when it comes to large groups

attempting a type of conspiracy, including, i might add, fani willis. the fulton county d.a. is now trading rudy giuliani with several crimes for his efforts to allegedly overturn the election, including racketeering. now, the rico law, something that he has, while, he's championed for years but. >> the upper level people are not used to being convicting, and they're certainly not used to being convicted on racketeering. >> charging them a violation with the federal racketeering acropolis as a shunt statute, the rico statute. >> this is a new way of doing business, and much more effective way to really crush them. >> if you look at all the racketeering indictments, if you look at our other racketeering indictments, we do it in all of the cases. >> the two together would make an excellent rico case, that i used to bring against the mafia. the clinton foundation is a fraud. the clinton foundation is a