. and that's it for me and cnn prime time. cnn tonight with jim acosta starts right now. hey, jim. >> hey, abby, thanks so much and

good evening, everybody. i'm jim acosta. and what happens next week will be, to use one word, historic. a string of former government officials, including the former president, his chief of staff, his lawyers, a top justice department official, campaign lawyers all expected to surrender in what fulton county georgia district attorney fani willis alleges was a criminal conspiracy to overturn 2020 election. a senior law enforcement official tells cnn former president donald trump is expected to turn himself in at the fulton county jail at the end of next week, on thursday or friday. trump's surrender and arraignment in georgia are likely to look different from those in his previous three criminal cases. the fulton county sheriff has suggested he wants to treat trump and the others named in the indictment similar tany other defendant. that could mean that they would have mug shots taken and be fingerprinted. and all of this will happen just a day or two after the first republican debate, which the front-runner is planning to skip according to multiple sources. we've got a lot more to come on all of that.

plus, we've got a brand-new update this hour from the national hurricane center on hurricane hilary and fears the storm could dump over a year's worth of rain on parts of the southwest, including the los angeles area. so stay tuned for that. now, i want to get right into it with cnn political commentator van jones, former adviser to george w. bush and john mccain and executive producer of the circus. john, let me start with you first. trump is now set to surrender for the fourth time late last next week. this time the world could get a mug shot for the former president. you worked for richard nixon. can you put next week into context? >> well, i can. it's not the first time that high-level government officials have had mug shots taken. but it will be the first time a president, if they indeed do that. so watergate, of course, was the

history that got the presidency off the rails initially. then it was back on, and trump is a guy who's gotten it off the rails again. so we're going to see it play out and whether it's by regular order or special treatment, we'll know next week. >> and we've seen trump motorcade in and out of his previous court appearances, john. do you think this surrender could hit trump a little differently than the ones that came before in that this is -- i mean somebody who is kind of the master of the spectacle. i don't think this is the spectacle that he really wants to see or be a part of. >> no. the jail he's going to surrender at is a hell hole. it has been -- it's received a lot of negative and national attention. i think any of the defendants in this newly charged case who get a whiff of that place may think twice about whether they want to stand trial or try to work out a deal. i don't think trump will do

that. he's always the double down guy. i hope they do treat him like any other person and don't give him special treatment. but he does have a secret service detail that has to protect him. so that will make some exception. >> yeah, it's going to be a wild scene, mark and van. mark, let me go to you. if 18 people get mug shots and trump does not and he somehow manages to not get a mug shot next week, although from what the sheriff is indicating, it sounds like this is going to happen. but if he doesn't, how is that going to play? >> well, i think if the other 18 are, then he's likely to. what we're seeing from this judge increasingly is she doesn't intend to treat him any differently than the rest of the defendants. the thing that's unprecedented and fascinating about next week is that on the one hand, we're going to have a national republican debate where trump will not be onstage. and yet just the following day, he will be in a federal

courthouse where we may see a mug shot. so we may see a mug shot of donald trump, but we won't see his face on the national stage in the debate, which is an interesting diametrically opposed visual we're not used to seeing with donald trump. >> van, what do you think of that? this is just going to be wild for the entire world to see and really just a global embarrassment at the same time. >> absolutely. also, you know, i'm not sure that trump is as sad about this as my colleagues. you know, he is the master of the spectacle. it's a situation where that mug shot, you might call it the $10 million, $20 million mug shot because i guarantee you he is going to raise a ton of money off of it. he's developed something new in american politics where the worse he does by any normal measure, the higher he rises. you know, i don't think most republican voters would give a job offer or a job interview to

somebody with 91 felony charges against him, but they're willing to give him the white house. he's doing something here. he's playing some kind of a game here, but, you know, as much as a normal person would not want a mug shot, i'm not sure that he's not planning on turning it into billboards. >> yeah. i mean, to that point, mark, does it almost not matter? i hesitate to say this, but does it almost not matter what happens at this debate on wednesday if donald trump sucks up all the oxygen one day or two days later? >> i think it does matter. debates always matter in political contests, especially presidential elections. this is an opportunity for somebody to break out, and somebody will break out next week, and because donald trump's not going to be there, it won't be him. i think this is a real opportunity for somebody, and, you know, contrary to van's acce asse assessment, i think he's going

to get a lot of attention. but i don't know a political consultant on either side of the aisle that would suggest that the best strategy is to get an additional indictment. it may play well in the primary, but i guarantee you it's going to hurt him in the general election and already is. >> and, john, i mean i do want to bring up this point, and all three of you can weigh in on this. the trump campaign sent out this email earlier today calling the d.a., fani willis, a fascist. he's been attacking her and jack smith repeatedly on truth social. where is the line, john dean? is there a line? are we setting up a scenario here where he essentially can just say anything he wants and he is not just going to get thrown in the slammer over it? he's not going to be found to have broken any of these rules? he can just do and say whatever he wants? >> i've not seen the statement. you said it's from the campaign, which somewhat shields him from making a personal statement if the campaign issued it. he can theoretically deny that he had anything to do with it.

but it's obviously done in his name, and there really is no line that he's not willing to walk up to although i think he's been somewhat chastened recently, jim, because he's backed off on holding this press conference next week where he was going to explain to the world how he had evidence that totally exonerated him from all these charges. lawyers got to him and said, listen, you're just digging a deeper and deeper hole. and maybe he realizes he is digging a deeper hole. so we'll see how he personally plays this. >> and, van, as we were just discussing, he's not going to be at the debate next week. but his primary opponents are taking kind of a mixed reaction on all this and his ditching the debate. let's listen to this. >> if you've qualified for the stage, which trump has, not showing up is completely disrespectful to the republican party, who has made you their nominee twice, and to the republican voters, whose support you're asking for again. >> i think you owe it to the

people to put out your vision, to talk about your record, and if you're not willing to do that, then i think that people are not going to look kindly on that. >> i do expect president trump to show up down the line, but i think it's fair game for him to miss the first couple. >> how does this play out, van? what do you think? >> look, if you're vivek, you're probably glad trump's not there because he's the new guy. he's the rising star. he's the young buck. he's a young gun. so he has a chance to have the stage to himself. he's going to be more for trump than trump himself, and he's going to try and take it to chris christie. chris christie is going to try to take it to him. if you're vivek in particular, you probably want him not there. that's why he's not criticizing him. look, i'm looking for tim scott to rise a little bit. there's going to be a lot of punches thrown. there's going to be a lot of pyrotechnics. but i think nobody is going to throw a punch at tim scott, and it gives him the opportunity to

put forth that sunshine optimism. you'll see is there any appetite for that in the republican party, or do they just want the fisticuffs and the name calling and the nonsense that's going to go down between a chris christie, between a desantis, between a vivek? that's what i'm looking for. >> mark, one of the things i wanted to ask you, and i try to ask republican strategists when i have them on from time to time. it's just this strange dynamic that we're seeing play out in the republican primary process where you have now the ex-president with four different indictments, and the other contenders just seem to be, you know, tiptoeing through the tulips and not really taking him on and hitting him over the head with all this legal trouble that he's in. is it possible that we're going to see this debate play out in a way on wednesday night where they sound like they're auditioning for posts in his cabinet more than really going after him despite the fact that he's in all this trouble? >> i think we'll see both. i think the people who really

think that they've got a shot and not just a shot to be number two or somewhere in the cabinet, are increasingly going to be walking a strategic line where they can talk about trump in a way they say, listen, you know, he's been the tribal leader. he's been very popular. there's a lot of things he did that were good for the country, good for the party. but he's a loser. the fact is he lost the 2020 -- they have to admit that he lost the 2020 election and not just the election for his re-election, but he lost the house. he lost the senate for the first time in 100 years, not since grover cleveland. and with these increasing legal problems, he is increasingly problematic and more likely to be a loser in the general election. so they can damn him with faint praise and say, listen, he's not the guy that's going to be able to win next year, and it's got to be somebody else. >> all right, gentlemen. thanks so much. really appreciate it. >> thank you. a potential trump conviction before the 2024 election is raising a host of constitutional

questions already. but as my next guest writes in a "washington post" opinion piece this week, some legal experts think trump has already disqualified himself from being president under the 14th amendment. "washington post" opinion columnist jason willic joins me now. jason, this caught my eye earlier this week. you cite this paper written by two originalist law professors who say that trump may have already disqualified himself despite the fact that he wasn't convicted in the senate during that impeachment process. can you lay that out for us? >> yeah. so the idea is that the section 3 of the 14th amendment, which was intended to disqualify confederates from serving in government after the civil war, could apply to trump because it prohibits anyone who engaged in insurrection from serving. and so on the idea that the january 6th riot was an insurrection, these law professors are arguing, and i suspect this is going to get into the liberal bloodstream in

the coming months, trump is disqualified based on an original meaning of the 14th amendment, section 3. i don't agree with it, but i think it's something that's going to start being debated more and more if former president trump continues his march to the nomination. >> and how could this be used by activists, opponents of the former president? when could we see this theory be introduced in court? i suppose as the primary process plays out, you may start seeing some court challenges in key battleground states, that sort of thing? >> yeah. so the process varies from state to state, whether it has to be another candidate challenging someone's eligibility, which state official can challenge their eligibility. but i wouldn't be surprised, you know, the primaries start in january. we're in august. we're a few months away from ballots starting to be printed and have the names of the candidates on them. i wouldn't be surprised if we start to see state officials try to remove trump's name from the

ballot, especially in blue states, especially partisan, democratic secretary of states. now, if that happened, there would be a legal challenge, and we would see it then go to the courts, and it would start to be litigated. then, of course, the question is, you know, this just takes one state secretary of state and one state to try to remove president trump from the ballot and to get the go-ahead from the state supreme court, and then it goes to the united states supreme court. so i think we're going to see, if this idea starts to get momentum among democrats, it's going to start rising very fast in this 2024 election. >> and we should note these are originalist law professors. if they believe this, logically, one might, i guess, presume that perhaps a conservative on the supreme court or multiple conservatives on the supreme court might agree with this line of thinking. what do you think? >> you know, i think it's unlikely, but you never know.

liberals have generally disagreed with originalism because they've said, so what if that's what it meant hundreds of years ago. we live in the real world. we have to take into account political realities. if the original meaning of the constitution requires us to not have paper money or something that's just totally unworkable in modern society, well, we have to interpret it in a way that's consistent with how our society works. you're right that originalists say we have to follow the text no matter what the implications are. so i do think that these are influential law professors. you know, depending on how these trials play out, how the mood of the country plays out in the coming months, i think it could be taken more or less seriously. but i think we could for sure see some strange new respect for originalism among liberals and some skepticism of this originalist logic among conservatives. >> and potentially some lawyers representing the former president in a different kind of court case. all right, jason willic, thank

you very much for your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you, jim. all right. coming up next, the battle over african american studies in arkansas. why the little rock school district is going against state education officials. we'll talk about that in a few moments. ed up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide.

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good thing adding lysol laundry sanitizer kills 99.9% of bacteria that detergents leave behind. clean is good, sanitized is better. ♪ ♪ in a short break from arkansas education officials, the little rock school district has decided it will continue to offer a.p. african american studies for credit. the decision comes after the state department of education announced on monday that the course's content might violate the state's new learns act. that law championed by governor sarah huckabee sanders bans, quote, indoctrination in schools. joining me now is allie nolan. she is representing two plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the learns act. very much appreciate you being with us this evening. thanks for making time for us. as a point of clarification, the

school district has decided to move forward with its plans to teach the course. tell us more about this. is it going to count toward graduation? do the students get punished in some way by this? >> it cannot count as a graduation requirement. that is part of the state's decision not to count it. but we are still offering the course. we are still weighting the grade so it will count as an a.p. grade. though listed as an a.p. course on the student transcript, and we are coming up with ways to pay for those student a.p. exams because the state is refusing to pay for them for this course even though it pays for all other a.p. exams. >> so the students can take the course this year. it won't count toward their high school graduation. what about universities? can they take this course into account as something that's on the student's record?

i guess i'm just kind of curious what do the kids have to say about this? >> so the university of arkansas system, which is by far the largest in the state, has already said that it is accepting this course for college credit if a student passes the a.p. exam. more than 200 other colleges and universities have also said they will accept the course. and in terms of our students, they are eager to take the course. there has been an outpouring of support. we have even had adults in the community who have said, this is history i need to learn. how do i take this course as well? so there's a lot of interest right now in making sure that we do not erase this history. >> i was wondering if the governor is inadvertently making this course more popular. >> well, there's definitely been a lot of talk about how the next section of a.p. african american studies may have a chapter on exactly what's happening right now. >> i bet. and in of the school

district's decision, the arkansas department of education says in a statement, until it's determined whether it violates state law and trains teachers in critical race theory a indoctrination -- this is according to the state depame of education -- the state will not move forward. the department encourages the teaching of all american history and supports rigorous courses not based on opinions or indoctrination. that word "indoctrination" coming up over and over again. what's your response to that? >> this course is not indoctrination. this course takes students through 400 years of history and helps them use original source documents to prompt discussion and to really encourage debate so that they can develop critical thinking skills on their own. that is the opposite of indoct indoctrination. in fact, governor sanders and her administration have had months to review this course, and they can't point to a single example of indoctrination or crt in the course. the framework for the course is

online on the college board's website. everyone can look at it. >> and the governor, sarah huckabee sanders, she's push be back on criticism over this last-minute decision to not allow students enrolled in this course to receive credit toward graduation. let's listen to what she had to say, and i'll get your response. >> we've got to get back to the basics of teaching math, of teaching reading, writing, and american history. and we cannot perpetuate a lie to our students and push this propaganda leftist agenda, teaching our kids to hate america and hate one another. it's one of the reasons that we put into law banning things like indoctrination and crt. >> yeah, what's your response to the governor? >> so it was said this is an attempt to erase history. this is our history as

arkansans. this is just a shameful political stunt that robs our students of important educational opportunities. i wish the governor would quit playing politics with our students honestly. >> yeah. well, and, of course, if she'd like to come on and talk about it, we're happy to have her on. we've had a chance to talk to her about other things in the past, but let's talk to her about this. like to do that. allie nolan, thank you so much for your time. keep us posted on how things go out there in arkansas. it's an important topic. we though stay on top of it. thanks so much for your time. >> i appreciate it. thank you. the southwestern u.s., heads-up. it is facing the threat of massive rainfall from a hurricane churning off the coast of mexico right now. southern california is on a level 4 threat, the first time it's ever been issued. hurricane hilary could dump more than a year's worth of rain on at least three states in a matter of days and spark catastrophic flooding.

let's bring in cnn's chad myers to talk about this. chad, it's kind of strange to talk about a hurricane of this magnitude heading towards southern california. how bad could it be? >> this will be a once in a generation or maybe longer type of storm. this will do infrastructure damage. this will wash out roadways. it may take out bridges and put an awful lot of water in places where people live. this just isn't a desert system. so 130-mile-per-hour storm. the latest advisory, the 11:00 advisory just out. the hurricane hunter aircraft is on the way to make sure, to check it out. also what was a tropical storm watch a few hours ago has now turned into a tropical storm warning for southern california from point mugu all the way south, even south of san diego. to the south of there, hurricane warnings because they're going to get hurricane conditions. i don't think we're going to see hurricane conditions in california, but it's going to be pretty close, especially on top of some of these mountain ridges. you could get some hurricane gusts. the big story i think is going to be 40 or 50 miles per hour in

most locations, but that's not the story with this storm. this storm is still now a cat 4, barely, but it is. then it will turn into a category 1. then it will into only a t.s., a tropical storm as it crosses over into california. so the winds may not be what they are now because of this colder water. but this is still going to carry all of the moisture. it's going to carry all of the humidity of a major hurricane right over this area that will have between possibly 7 and 10 inches of rain. think about that on top of these mountains. all of that water is going to come down. think about that on a burn scar. those are going to be just areas of water just rushing across the roadways. this is going to be a weekend to not go to the mountains, not go to the park, not go to the national parks because some of them are even closes. but it's going to start early. this is moving a little bit faster than i think forecast earlier in the day because we're going to see rain in the

morning. we're already seeing rain now across parts of really las vegas, but that's not even part of this yet. the thing is, jim, this is going to rain for 24 hours, and there's going to be an awful lot of problems here. this is really a major, major catastrophic event. >> well, and, chad, i know i've spoken with you so many times about these kinds of systems heading into the gulf of mexico and hitting the gulf coast. people have the temptation to blow it off and say, no big deal, tropical storm. a lot of times it depends on whether or not that storm is slowing down. if it slows down enough, it could dump a lot of rain. is that the potential for what we're looking at for southern california? is that why they need to be careful with this? >> it's just the amount of water that's in the air. the amount of humidity all the way from the surface to the top of the atmosphere is four times what it should be this time of year. that's just four times more rainfall than can even come out during a regular monsoon event. look how widespread this is. hundreds of thousands of square

miles of rainfall deeper than four inches all having to get down into the same valleys, into the same gullies, into the same lakes. not just one storm on a map in a county. that's as big as pennsylvania. that's a lot of rainfall coming down. >> a lot of rain. people need to be careful. chad myers, thanks so much. really appreciate it. the philadelphia eagle suffering multiple injuries, including two players being carted off the field on stretchers for major neck injuries. this is pretty early in the season. we're in the pseason. what's going on with the team? what's going on with the sport and this happening over and over again in the nfl? we'll talk about that next. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number.

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he's cocky for a nineteen year old. two philadelphia eagles players had to be carted off the field on stretchers after suffering neck injuries during thursday's preseason game against the cleveland browns. the eagles say wide receiver tyreke cleveland and -- both have movement in all extremities but you can't help but be reminded of that horrible scene when buffalo bills star damar hamlin suffered cardiac arrest

on the field in january. joining me is christine brennan. it's great that the nfl is back, we're in preseason, but all of a sudden here we go. multiple injuries, some terrifying incidents already. first couple weeks of the preseason, and we're seeing these devastating injuries. >> jim, as you know well, this is a violent game that americans just love. >> yeah. >> and we can't get enough of it. but the very definition of football, it's tackling, it's hitting. you know, anyone who has ever been in the stands at a game, you know, hit 'em, synonyms for hit, tackle, that is a part of the american lexicon. this is where we are. in both cases from looking at the videotape, these were athletes who are doing football things, you know. jumping for a ball, landing the wrong way. you can see, again, the reaction. you mentioned damar hamlin and just the fact that this just

brings that all back. that was january 2nd or 3rd. and then again, just trying to make a tackle, a defensive lineman. >> it's scary. >> it is, but with all the rule changes and all the things that the sport has tried to do to make it safer, no more horse collaring quarterbacks. you know, can't lead with your head. all those things, the reality is this game still can produce moments like that. >> is there anything that can be done about the preseason? i hate to put something out there, you know, that the nfl is going to say, no way we do something like this. but should we have this level of hitting, this level of competition during the preseason? i mean this is every fan's nightmare, losing a big star player during the preseason. >> in the case with both of those players as you mentioned, they're concussed. so even though they're okay thankfully and we did find out quite quickly that the extremities, they could move their extremities, and so that

concern was off the table. but how quickly will they come back? once you've had a concussion, you're much more likely to have another one as we know. the preseason is where, again, as all football fans know, you get a chance to see that one person who is going to be the diamond in the rough. remember babe laufenberg, always played great, everyone loved him. >> there's always those preseason fan favorites. >> that's the nature of this. you do want to see how these guys can play. >> every team has to analyze. i some of the star quarterbacks end up resting because they don't want them to get injured, and they use the preseason to analyze the players trying to make the roster. we all remember when damar hamlin experienced cardiac arrest on the field back in january. it's just a miracle. he's back playing again. >> he is. >> which is an incredible test ta ment to the kind of medical

miracles they do inside the nfl with these players. >> and the stories we're aware of, of the high school kids who weren't able to get that attention. those horror stories of kids playing where thankfully again, the cpr, training, defibrillators, and that is what hamlin is starting a national conversation, has been over the last seven, eight, nine months. i think it's wonderful more and more communities are realizing they have to have that. >> is there any way to make this game safer? >> you know, they've tried every which way. >> no way to make it safe. >> right. well, the anecdotes of like a jim otto, the great from the raiders, double zero, who couldn't get out of bed and had, what, 50 knee surgeries. gayle sayers, one of the greats of all times, who had to end his career. all these things are much better than they would. but if we love football, dand

i've covered it for years and loved it. >> it's tough in d.c. >> you've lived a long 30 years here. but i think the bottom line is if we love our football, then we've got to come to terms that this is exactly the kind of thing that is going to happen. but they certainly have tried. the nfl and others have tried to do a better job of keeping people safe. but you can't ensure things like this will not happen. >> and it's a sport that makes a fortune. they have to keep investing in technology and the equipment to make sure these players have the very best equipment, medical professionals, everybody on the sidelines, and that kind of mentality has to filter down to the college and high school ranks as well. >> it does. >> i'm glad you made that point earlier. it has to be safer at those levels as well. christine brennan, thank you very much. in the meantime, an unknown singer skyrocketing to the top of the charts. why is north of richmond becoming an overnight sensation? politics might have something to do with it.

we'll talk about that ♪ i wish politicians would look out for minors ♪

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♪ livin' in a new world with an old soul ♪ ♪ these rich men north of richmond ♪ ♪ lord knows they all just wanna have total control ♪ >> that song has been rocketing to the top of the charts, becoming a conservative anthem

seemingly overnight. rich men north of richmond channels the previously unknown singer's frustrations over the state of the country and has garnered praise by right wing figures like kari lake. joining me is the author of "red necks and blue necks: the politics of country music," and there is politics in country music. it's very true. chris, great to see you. what in the hell has happened here? how has this song done this? what's driving the overnight success of this? >> well, you know, there's been a lot of speculation about is this organic? is this some kind of industry plant or right-wing conspiracy plant? certainly he had some help in marketing the song from people on the right, who got it in front of the right eyes of people like kari lake and people like that. but i think, you know, progressives dismiss it as some

kind of plant at the peril of ignoring the fact what this song speaks to and what people on their side need to be speaking to more. it's a once in in a lifetime phenomenon in a lot of ways that this guy, up until ten days ago, had probably never played for a few dozen people in a bar is running neck and neck with taylor swift for number one. >> wow. >> and he lives in a trailer on a farm. he really is who he says he is in terms of a working class guy who's worked in manufacturing and all of this. but when we say it's a once in a lifetime phenomenon, also there's this kind of instant deja vu where it's a twice in a month phenomenon because, you know, we have the protest song of the generation. they were just saying that three weeks ago about jason aldean's "try this in a small town." different thing. this is a complete unknown. but this kind of repeatable phenomenon of a song that really

appeals to the right wing zooming to number one on the charts. >> chris, he says he's nonpartisan, so why is this being mainly praised by people on the far right? if you look at some of the lyrics, i suppose some of those lyrics might appeal to folks on that end of the spectrum. but what's your sense of it? >> yeah. i mean, he has said in a video he put out that he's always been a right down the center guy. i think at some point you're going to be known by the fans you keep. so if your song is only being embraced by the marjorie taylor greenes, matt walshs, ben shapiros, newt gingrich has gotten behind it. you do think about, okay, why is that? and i've seen a lot of progressives say, you know, what he says about economic dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement would have been democratic talking points a generation ago or seen as such in that part of the country. and now they are seen as right-wing talking points. and i've heard a lot of people

say, you know, from the left, you know, i was with him in the song until he started punching down and talking about fat women milking welfare, who are 5'3" and 300 pounds. at that point he loses a lot of people by sort of appealing to the welfare queen thing. >> we've got some of those lyrics. let's listen to this. ♪ i wish politicians would look out for miners ♪ ♪ and not just minors on an island somewhere ♪ ♪ lord, we got folks in the street, ain't got nothing to eat ♪ ♪ and the obese milkin' welfare ♪ ♪ well, god, if you're 5'3" and you're 300 pounds ♪ ♪ taxes ought not to pay for your bags of fudge rounds ♪ ♪ young men are puttin' themselves six feet in the ground ♪ ♪ cuz all this damn country does is keep kickin' them down ♪ >> what do you make of those

lyrics? >> it's an odd kind of conservative dog whistle to throw in a reference to jeffrey epstein and child sex trafficking, which i think is what has made people think is this a qanon thing? it's just kind of a random reference to throw in there along with the welfare queen stuff. 80% of the song is kind of this free form, free floating resentment of fat cats in washington that probably most people could kind of sing along with. but then he throws in, you know, these kind of odd things that feel like signals to the right to a lot of people. so it's hard to know whether to take him at his word that he's a centrist guy or whether he is sort of trying to be this populist while at the same time being what has turned out to be extremely partisan in the way it's being received. >> i mean, are there other songs that we can draw some, i guess, some thoughts on in terms of --

or thoughts from in terms of where he lands on a lot of this stuff, or is it just this one song that everybody is trying to read into? >> it's funny because you look at his other songs, and there's a lot of stuff about -- he's apparently been a big pot guy. but he's also seemed to have some kind of religious epiphany where he talks about being a high school dropout with a ged, who has kind of drowned his mental health issues in substance abuse and now has seen the light. so when he did his first sort of big public concert a week ago, he opened it by reading from the book of psalms for about two minutes, albeit the psalm about striking down the wicked. and yet he seems like this really friendly guy. he doesn't seem as angry as, say, a jason aldean just kind of looks angry when you look at him. so he has this kind of friendly face beneath the huge red beard.

so i think people are still a little puzzled about where he's really coming from, and maybe she's just a simple guy like he says he is who hasn't really figured it all out yet and maybe doesn't know that he's thought that much about these supposed dog whistles he's sending out. it's hard to really know. >> we'll have to keep listening to find out. chris, thank you very much. interesting stuff. appreciate the time. >> you bet. >> all right. we'll be right back. (female announcer) attention! medicare has expanded dexcom coverage -for people with diabetes. -if you have diabetes, getting on dexcom g7 is the single most important thing you can do.

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