if you violate the law, you're going to be charged. the fulton county district attorney has asked the judge to set a trial date for march 4, 2024. it's unlikely that will hold. but if it does, that will mean the former president's trial in fulton county would begin just one day before the super tuesday primaries. thanks for watching "the whole thanks for watching "the whole story." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪

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misses this first one. i don't thin m the first onone is goi do huge dama to him. wr what i' whsothe reig first round bye. yp yoyou bring all these the debate, lethen the thresp threthreshold is h donaldonald trump can thresp threthreshold is h donald expected t in. f h if h not show up toto totor toto andeba different question. >> that makes sense. wwp what dowhat do you thi polipoli thisp is iscounty or? t>>r >p the surrender m much bigger. ir it'p it's t it to n in atlapin atlanta si surrend surren top the fact debate in person -- you're making the right decision not to come to the debate. i think he's making the wrong collection by the way he's collecting his counterprogramming. he's to going on with a fire talk show host on a failing

platform. he's donald trump. he should have a rally. that's what he does best, not sitting around wining with tucker carlson. he needs to go to iowa the first day, have a big rally. he would blow out the debate. that's me as a strategist. i'm not protrump obviously. i don't support the guy. he seems like he's being more interested in being petulant and punishing fox news, going on twitter with their ex-star. what he ought to do is worry about winning the election, not about punishing fox news. >> well, in part, this could be one in the same, right? part of his strategy -- and i think you're right -- in terms of it's more peak than point really. but when you look at the consequences of this indictment, of one of many indictments, he has had some gains as a result of it because it seems as though the campaign strategy up until now has been, look, i'm an outsider. the government is weaponized. i'm essentially your last line of defense. they're really after you, but they're going to go through me first. if that's part of what he's doing and what he's talking about. i can see the political moment of his benefit saying, look, here i am once again with my back against the ropes. and what did he dance to on his inauguration night? "i did it my way," frank

sinatra. of course sinatra had a famous mug shot. if that's going to happen on thursday or friday, that will be a whole new ball game. >> that is the mug shot i think of every time we talk about this question, should he do a mug shot. elliott, he knows that an arrest is not a good look. if this is going to be the political moment of the week, is there a way for him to spin this and make it work for him politically? >> of course there's a way to spin it and make it work for him politically. this is the world of the politics people. his numbers haven't really been affected despite four indictments and multiple engagements with the criminal justice system. the bigger question in all of this is how special is donald trump as a defendant? we hear repeatedly from the folks in atlanta and elsewhere, it's just going to be like any other case. he's going to be treated like any other defendant. we know that is nonsense. even this mug shot question, like you're saying, it makes sense. he's the most popular famous person on the planet. you don't need a mug shot to

identify him. but frank sinatra, wesley snipes, tom delay, lots of famous people got mug shots. why is donald trump the one who is getting this special accommodation? >> that's going to be a question in fulton county because at the federal level they didn't opt to do the mug shot. but to elliott's point, can you really have a former president who doesn't get special treatment? i mean, what do you think? >> i mean, this is going to be a former president who has, unlike most defendants their attorneys, some of whom are going to be appointed by, you know, the state, if they are indigent for some reason. you're going to have secret service coordinating on his behalf. you also have, to be fair, some of the significant national security or security risks of having him walk through the front door as any other person, being exposed, so to speak. fingerprints, for example, never having been a president of the united states -- yet -- >> yet. >> i was going to say! man i was going to say -- thank you all for that moment. but never having been the president of the united states,

i don't know if having fingerprints of a former president is somehow some sort of breach of some kind -- if there are any risks of doing so. i don't know if having him in general population would be something all dharcht than a notorious or high profile criminal, who is accused of a crime and kept separate from everyone else. there might be reasons to keep him separate. but rolling out a red carpet, asking him if he would like a cappuccino as opposed to rolling his thumb, a very different scenario. >> doesn't feel like the cappuccino kind of sheriff's office. that could be my impression from the outside. >> absolutely not. it's a notoriously tough prison system. it's a fair question, and laura raises an important point. presidents of the united states, regardless of what you think of them, get 24 hour security system until the day they die. that involves strict management of where they go, who can shake their hand, who can pat them on

the back, and whatever else. and it's hard to -- we've all learned -- we've been in prisons at various points before, as attorneys. but, you know, certainly they're not places that are necessarily easy to control. no matter what full ton county says, it's still a chaotic environment. and you have to think about how you protect a secret service protectee at that point. >> at the debate, is it wise for the candidates to call attention to the surrender, to trump's legal problems, or is it better to focus on what they have to offer voters? >> i think if you're the type of republican who is tuning in, you're probably still shopping around. maybe you like donald trump. you're not necessarily tuning in to hear a bunch of people throw punches at donald trump. but you want to see what else is on the menu. maybe i'll choose something different than the usual. at the same time, these candidate versus been so averse to going after trump, and they're all in single digits. he's just eating their lunch. at a certain point, don't you have to change up the strategy?

what do you have to lose? >> i'm curious to see what happens. everyone stay with me. we'll have much more on the republican debate and the impending surrender of former president trump this hour. but first, we want to update you on hilary, the storm, which is inundating southern california with unprecedented amounts of rain. the storm is wreaking havoc on air travel, with hundreds of flights cancelled. but the rainfall could do far worse to a region that is just simply not equipped to deal with a tropical storm. and in fact hasn't seen one since 1939. kyung lah joins us now. what is it like where you are right now? >> reporter: paula, what we've been seeing throughout the day in san diego is you'll have these moments of lighter rain like we're seeing now, then a bit more wind, and then periods of very heavy rain. it's been very unpredictable. it is extraordinarily rare for

it to rain in san diego? august. so, what the city has done is they have tried to block off areas like this. this is a roadway that typically floods. so, this entire street is shut down. they have blocked it off to traffic. and this is just emblematic of some of the preparation that the city of san diego has taken part in. the worst of the storm has really been in the desert area just about an hour away from here. there have been some mud slides. and part of it is that the infrastructure isn't designed to take on all of this water. so, what you're seeing here is, you know, something that you might be used to in your neighborhood, is water going down the drain. but when we're talking about a region like southern california that is not used to all of this in august, this can create major problems. so, the school system here in san diego, as well as the school system in the los angeles district, they have both shut

down, saying that they simply do not have the staff to go check school by school to see what the damage is. we are hearing reports from other school districts that some schools have sustained some damage. so, it's really going to be piecemeal, paula, on what exactly happens overnight. city officials are warning people to remain at home because this is still a very unpredictable situation overnight, paula. >> kyung lah, thank you. and coming up, eight 2024 gop hopefuls will step out in front of the debate lights on wednesday night. for some, this will be the first time voters have even heard their names. and they are all hoping the attention won't be taken by someone who won't even be there. all that ahead when cnn special coverage continues. hungry forr breakfast favorites? when you want america's biggest breakfast starting at $7.99... at denny's, it''s diner time. now open really late.

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it's crunch time for eight 2024 hopefuls. here with the gop candidates who have qualified for wednesday's debate so far. former president vice president mike pence, entrepreneur and author vivek, dougburg ram, asa hutchinson, and former new jersey governor chris christie. and if you're wondering where the front runner will be, donald trump has just confirmed he will not be attending the debate. he will likely be participating in counterprogramming with former fox news host tucker carlson. joining me now to discuss is former democratic south carolina state representative and cnn political commentator bakari sellers and former white house communications director under

trump, alyssa farah griffin, also a cnn political commentator. alyssa, let's first talk about your former boss. he's not going to be at the debate. we didn't expect him to be. but he's there in spirits, right? how long do you think before he's brought up on that debate stage? >> i suspect that he'll come up pretty quickly. if not -- there won't be opening statements, but i can see him being one of the first questions. the fox hosts that are leading the debate have previewed that they are going to ask about donald trump and his legal woes. he looms large over everything. he won't be present, yet he will take up a lot of the oxygen in the room. i never really bought the theory that he would turn himself in on wednesday. but thursday makes a lot of sense. if nikki haley has a really good performance, what better to do than take all the oxygen out of the news cycle than by turning yourself in. that's classic donald trump. >> classic, indeed. here's how asa hutchinson says

he is going to address trump. let's take a listen. >> i'm not going to defend donald trump. i will be a prosecutor. i will be telling the truth on donald trump. and whether he's there or not, he will be a focal point of issue, both what happened on january 6 but also how he will not lead the republican party well into the future. >> chris christie also expected to take a similar approach. those two are going to be pretty much the only anti-trump or trump-critical candidates. what do you think of that strategy, bakari? >> well, i actually think that chris christie and asa hutchinson probably have the ability to perform the best at this debate. they come in with this prosecutorial experience. both of them have led states. both of them have won elections multiple times over. so, i do believe that legal background is going to bode them well at this debate. we all know that the individual who has kind of the most to gain and the most to lose in this

outside of donald trump's just looming presence is ron desantis. and i think ron desantis trying to go up against either one of those two, asa hutchinson or chris christie, is not going to go over well in this debate. so, i think that strategy, if you can thread that needle and talk about your conservative values or your conservative bona fides and also kind of skewer donald trump while he's not there and he's live tweeting or live truth socialing -- i don't know how you actually make that a verb. but while he's doing whatever he's doing, i think actually can go a long way to boost your stock in the gop field. >> and alyssa, to that point, let's take a look at some of the recent polling on where the field stands. trump you can see, by far, the front runner. desantis sits at 17%. vivek ram swamy has 6. the rest of the field, though, has less than 5%. who has the most to gain? is it those folks who are polling so low? is this their opportunity to try

to seize a share of the pie here? >> listen, i agree with my friend bakari on this. i think that it's the candidates who are willing to take on trump that probably have the most to gain. asa hutchinson can burnish his conservative credentials but also litigate against trump. all fire is going to be directed at governor desantis. the theory is whoever can usurp the position of the number two spot has the potential to kind of rally the donors around them, try to get as many delegates, and try to, as quickly as possible, make it a one-on-one fight with donald trump. there's not a lot of data that suggests that is going to happen, and we're going see the a major shakeup. i do expect to see governor desantis to keep falling. i would note how stark those poll numbers. harry enten has pointed out, there's no historic example of somebody overcoming that big of a margin to go on and win the nomination. >> for some of these candidates, this is going to be the first time anyone who's really heard

their name. for example, doug burnham is really leaning into that. this is a really huge opportunity for him. let's take a listen to what he says about this debate. >> we're excited to be on the debate stage, the least-known candidate on there. i trust that if we can show that we're a credible alternative that we can deliver the things that americans are looking for because americans do want this country to move forward. they want presidential elections to be about the future, a vision for the future. then we have to offer that. >> so, bakari, what do you make of his comment there? is that what he needs to do to go get more supporters? instead of focusing on trump, to lay out his vision for the future. >> i mean, he should probably be doing something else with his time. i don't know, running a state or, you know, becoming a fox news contributor, writing a book maybe, or going on a speaking tour. he doesn't have a lot of political talent. he's very, very wealthy, so i don't want to say the man

doesn't have any talent. he just doesn't have that political talent, and i think he's going to vanish on the stage. most people don't know him before the debate. they won't know him after the debate either. i do think that range ofm swamy unique. much of what he says is nonsensical. when you watch his interviews, he seems to have not much depth. but i do think people are interested in whether or not he is a herman cain type figure or a andrew yang type figure. at the end of the day -- i think alyssa may agree with me on this -- one of the most talented people on the stage is going to be nikki haley. and i think she's going to probably have the best night of them all. >> alyssa, i'll let you have the last word really quickly. >> i expect nikki haley to come out the winner, but unfortunately we're not living in a world where the best policy positions for the future are what win the day. she has a lot to overcome

head-to-head with donald trump. >> bakari sellers, alyssa farah griffin, thank you. and still ahead, new signs that mark meadows is trying to distance himself even further from his former boss, as he joins trump as one of the 19 codefendants charged in georgia. cnn special coverage continues next. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right messe at the right time, every time. ( ♪ ) constantontact. helping the small stand tall. here's how tommy lost 30 lbs on noom weight. i'm tom. noom helped him use psychology to lose weight. the mindful aspect made me feel more conscious about what i was eating and why i was eating it. it's actually working. lose weight and make it last with noom weight.

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♪ the new summer family meal. starting at $24. only at el pollo loco. ♪ welcome back to cnn special live coverage. a source says donald trump will turn himself in thursday or friday to face charges in georgia. now, the sheriff in fulton county said the former president will be received at the jail like any other defendant. now, our panel is back with us. and look, paul, let's take a

look at the calendar, right? it's getting awfully crowded, both with campaign events but also possible trials. we have a few scheduled so far. the former president's lawyers say it's unfair to put him on trial before the election. do you agree or do you think voters have a right to see the resolution of at least some of these cases? >> he has to stand trial. i don't know if it will be before the election or after. judges will decide about the timing. the interests of justice come first, not your job. and his job right now is to run for president. by the way, his political strategy is his legal strategy, right? we were just discussing that. he goes around the country, says to republican primary voters, i'm oppressed. he's a billionaire, okay? he's a former president, but he's oppressed. he runs on his grievance, and his voters love this. he said this, if i get another couple indictments, i'll just walk back into the white house. the problem for republicans is, as trump gains strength with these indictments in the party, he loses strength in the general

election. he may well be unbeatable in the primaries and unelectable in the general because i mean, i just saw voting from navigator, a democratic firm, 28% of republicans believe trump committed a crime. we have to get 95% of them. the 60% who don't, he'll steam roll through the primaries and win. but when you're losing a quarter of your part -- they just don't think he's rude on twitter. they think he's a criminal. by the way, 61% of independents do. so, it's a really impossible situation for the republican party. so far great for trump, but he's a very nearsighted guy. for the party long-term, it could be catastrophic. >> kristen, what do you make of that. i talked to trump voters in fulton county, and there was clearly trump fatigue. when i asked, who are you going to support, they didn't have a name. why is that important to him? >> that's why the debates are potentially important. something like the debates are the opportunity to shop around. but absolutely true that donald

trump is a risky proposition for a general election. and yet polling that came out today from cbs news showed that 61% of republicans think that donald trump would definitely beat joe biden. so, that actually happens to line up, i think, almost exactly if had their poll with the percentage of republican voters who are voting for donald trump. these things are very related. this argument that he's not electable, right now a lot of republicans don't want to hear it. the question is if court appearance after court appearance after court appearance start wracking up, do some republicans who like him, think he's being charged unfairly, start going, maybe he is vulnerable. that could change things. if we definitely are going to get at least one trial, which is what voters are entitled to. we can't do all four trials, that's not going to happen. which one or two do you think are most important for voters ahead of the election? >> why do you have to ask a question like that? >> that's my job. >> look, i'll say as a former prosecutor, they're all critically important. but i would say -- and i push back a little bit -- it doesn't

matter what voters think. for the purposes of the criminal justice system, what the goal is there is to deter conduct from people who have broken the law, stop other people from breaking the law in the future, and punish people who have done bad things. and that exists on a scale and timeline totally separate from our political calendar. do the question of what's most likely to come to trial, there's something getting in the way of every one of the four cases. in mar-a-lago down in florida, there are significant legal questions around handling classified documents, right? in atlanta, a state case, you have questions about whether it should be brought to federal court, and they're going to litigate that for a while. it's hard to see, frankly, any of them making it to trial in the next year. but, again, they're all critically important. they're crimes, and they ought to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. >> do you agree they're all important, even the manhattan case. >> no, i think that for voters -- yes, taking a step back, a grow with elliott.

every time there is a crime committed, there is an offense against the society at large. having said that, i think when it comes to voters, they're going to be very keenly interest in what took place leading up to january 6th. we are 400-plus days away from another presidential election, which means we're about -- i'm not going to do the math here -- more days than that up to another inaugural event. so, if what the crux of the activity taken place and alleged involves someone preparing for a presidential election to undermine the authority of either state officials, false slates of electors, or to disenfranchise collectively the american votes. that's going to be very serious. i think it reflects in the decision prosecutorially of jack smith. think back to the mar-a-lago case, compared to obviously what fani willis has done with a number of defendants to the one defendant streamlined indictment against donald trump in washington, d.c. i think the reason for that is in the hopes it'll be taken

seriously and because the judge also has said, judge chutkan, look, in her prior statements -- by the way, other judges in the federal court in washington, d.c., they've all tackled different issues, have talked about the urgency of these matters. i do think that's going to be very important. however, whether the judge's calendar says that is very different. to your point, paul, look, if i had a dollar for every person who was a defendant who said, i'm sorry, i've got other things to do, i have things going on, it's like a juror who says, i really don't want jury duty right now. it wasn't my plan for this month. you get kind of a so what, too bad, too sad. the allegations are there, and i doubt a judge at the federal level is going to look at that and say, okay, we'll wait until it's convenient for you. >> a judge i used to appear in front of all the time whrks jurors would say exactly that, the judge would say, you know, cemeteries are full of indispensable people. there will be a way you can get your butt into that seat. and if it were anyone other than

the president of the united states, we would figure out a way to have the trial. i think the idea that somebody's job makes them unable to get into court is nonsense. >> judge chutkan appears to be moving this quickly. as you noted, it was designed to move quickly, just one defendant. but the two sides are over two years apart in terms of their preferred trial date. we'll see what judge chutkan says. i do think this question about the presidential candidate, is that the same as a juror? i think that question is right for the supreme court and may actually get there early next year. everyone, stay with us. still ahead, after the bright debate lights go dark and all the pundits go home, what happens next? will the field shift, or could it even solidify? more of cnn's special coverage ahead. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e#e*trade from morgan stanley. wake up, achievers.

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♪ wednesday's debate could turn out to be the "hunger games" of the election season. eighth candidates in the arena, one prize. the only difference is the man who is the current favorite to win that prize won't be on stage. so, the eight republicans may just be competing for second place. but could this debate make a difference? i want to go back to our panel. all right, kristen, we know trump has always wanted a crowded field. that prevents too many people from surrounding one candidate. given the fact there's going to be eight people on stage, has he won before the debate even starts? >> with a lead this large, it would be easy to say, this is insurmountable. everything else that's happening is just side show, and let's just get to the convention. that's at least what trump would want you to think. it is true. a lead this large, i don't believe historically we have many examples of it being surmounted. we do not live in normal times. that's why i'm not ready to say

this is over yet. we've got a long way to go. as the trump legal situation unfolds, if republicans change their mind -- they don't currently view him as terribly risky, but if that begins to flip, they'll go shopping for another candidate. >> some are not household names. but vice president mike pence, former vice president, that's not one of those people. and he's currently polling at 4%. what would your advice to him be at this point? >> he doesn't have much of a chance. he doesn't. because the few republicans who don't like trump don't like vice president pence because he served him loyally. the people who love trump don't because he refused to do what trump wanted on january 6. for all of them, though, chris christie, asa hutchinson, the prosecutors, they want to prosecute trump. i get that. a few others maybe just want to defend them. this is what they need to do. free advice. don't say he's innocent because that just helps trump.

don't say he's guilty. first, it prejudges him. and second, voters will hate that. say he's distracted because he is. i've never been under indictment, but my guess is when you're under indictment once, it probably occupies your mind. how about 90 charges? so, i think they should say, look, trump was great when he was talking about building a wall and being tough on china and creating jobs. he doesn't talk about that anymore at all. all he talks about is himself and his legal woes. that may be prudential. they may be wise for mr. trump, but i'm going to be fighting for you. even if joe biden locks up donald trump, it won't create a job, it won't educate a child, it won't crack down on china, it won't stop a smuggler of fentanyl. i think there's a lane here none of these guys and gals are occupying. trump is running an ad now attacking the prosecutors. his political campaign ad is, i

hate fani willis. >> let's talk about that. not only ads, also on social media. we've seen him attack judges, district attorneys, prosecutors, also mentioning the grand jury and witnesses. we haven't heard any gop lawmakers push back on that. what do you make of this? seems like a potentially very dangerous situation. >> it's potentially very dangerous situation and it's also potentially a crime if you knowingly try to prevent or hinder or get in the way of someone's testimony before court. so, you know, what do i make of the politics of it? clearly they're scared of the fact that going after the former president might come back to bite them in some way. but, again, it's -- i can't say enough how much it is conduct that strikes at the heart of our system, and it cannot function if people are attacking witnesses or jurors. >> but these judges seem like they're in an almost impossible situation. if you try to restrict him, right, that furthers the martyr narrative.

what should they do? >> well, you know, judge chutkan talked about the idea of not, you know, demonstrating a fear. but instead, this is going to jump start my willingness to make this trial date come even sooner, right? that's a reverse judicial psychology that's happening at one point in time. we know from just within nine months ago, we heard from the department of homeland security in their bulletin, they talked about political grievances being one of the biggest threats that we face domestically in this country. is there anyone who's more of a poster child of political grievance than the former president of the united states and those who have followed. remember there was an attack on an fbi building. there was a man shot in utah who was wanting to shoot the president of the united states. you had judges being attacked. one supreme court justice had a man near his home prepared to assassinate him. now, i'm not suggesting in any way these are all somehow provoked by donald trump exclusively or if at all, but this is a climate of political

vie grans. so, that's what we need to be concerned about. not the least of which is we all watched what happened on january 6th. i will say when it comes to mike pence, who was a noted victim of january 6th, i think he's the one person on that stage who, unlike others, are not vying to be the vice president of the united states again, right? everyone keeps saying, oh, that person's really running because they just want to be in the good graces of donald trump. i think mike pence is legitimately running not to be the vice president under the front runner donald trump. >> definitely probably doesn't want that job based on experience. everyone, stay with us. we'll have much more of this coverage of this historic week. but first, we'll bring you the latest on hilary, as the storm drenches southern california. that's next. hungry for all your breakfast favorites? when you want america's biggest breakfast starting at $7.99... at denny's, it's diner time. now open reaeally late.

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find your passion and create your future at contra costa college. start today at contracosta.edu the peach state will be back in the national spotlight this week. former president donald trump is expected to surrender at the fulton county jail after being indicted for election interference. the historic 41-count indictment handed down monday accuses trump and 18 other codefendants of being part of a broad criminal enterprise in an attempt to overturn georgia's 2020 election results. fulton county district attorney fani willis issued a deadline for all 19 defendants to

voluntarily turn themselves in by noon on friday. this all comes the same week as the first republican presidential debate, which former president trump is skipping. we'll have some final thoughts from our panel in just a few minutes. first, we want to do a final check on what's going on with hilary as the powerful storm barrels into southern california, bringing the potential for catastrophic flooding. you can see the rushing floodwaters ripping away part of the road in santa clarita. the los angeles unified school district, the nation's second-largest, and san diego unified school districts, are both cancels classes tomorrow. more than a year's worth of rain is expected to pummel southern california. so let's go straight to cnn meteorologist chad myers in the weather center. chad? >> paula, already a half a foot of rain has fallen in the mountains just to the east of san diego. and i know it's been raining

there for a while, so these numbers are probably already higher than what we're showing here, about an hour or hour and a half old. the rain has been falling ought night long. flash flood warnings in effect from los angeles proper on up into the mountains. san bernardino, ventura counties, all of you are under significant flash flood warnings right now. it is still raining. the waters are running off the top of these mountains. here's what's going to go on. still raining right now. heavy rain. some spots, this is the heaviest rain you've seen all day because it's been slow to get to you. later tonight, it does begin to calm down. it starts to die off and all of that rain goes all the way up to idaho. this is a big, big storm that's going to go all the way to the north. but 2 to 4 more inches on top of the 6 inches that have fallen in spots, making significant flash flood problems tonight. it would be best, especially after dark, to not even start to drive around. these roads could be completely

washed out. i've already seen pictures now of burn scars and mud debris flows coming down the mountains not that far from palm springs. these are the areas, especially on top of these mountains, where all of the water is right now. in case you haven't been paying attention to the atlantic, we have emily and franklin and another storm in the gulf of mexico that could become something by tuesday for the western part of the texas gulf coast. but the first, franklin, any plans for the dominican republic or haiti, check this out because it certainly could be a hurricane by the time it does make arrival. still forecast to be a t.s., a tropical storm. the water's very warm down from, paula. >> chad myers, thank you. and up next, a collision of the justice system and politics this week as the 2024 gop hopefuls make their pitches to voters at the first gop primary debate and trump faces a bed line to vender in georgia.

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deal and profound for our system. one would think that the party would attack him over it, it looks like they're not going to. i'm looking for who besides chris christie pulls that punch. >> does anybody do anything courageous and defying expectations? a lot of what i hear sounds like 2016. "well, i just need to get it down to a one-on-one contest with donald trump and i'll win." we've seen that movie before, we know how it ends. see if anybody's bold enough to shake things up. >> naive but this is a head of an executive branch. i want to know what you think about weaponization of the bath water and whether you'll throw out the baby with the bath water because somebody was indictmented. >> donald trump is the greatest hit dog ever. you always know who he's afraid of by who he attacks. the morning after the debate, i think he's going to attack chris christie. i think he's gaining in new hampshire, he's the toughest, smartest person on that stage, and he knows how to get under trump's skin.

the way to win this is get trump to attack you. >> let's talk about headlines. thursday morning, what is the headline? is it the debate or something trump did? >> trump. it's always trump. because he'll say or do anything. anything. these are all impressive people. but they're normal homo sapiens with the kind of normal manners of a human being. trump is not. he will do or say anything to command the spotlight, and he'll get it. >> i hope it's not that beg ram swami rapped eminem again. i hope it's along the lines of policy positions that were advertise cussed. actual substantive principles giving the vote areas chance to decide who they might want in that seat for the rnc nomination. >> i believe the headline is likely to be, more people will watch the debate than the trump counter-programming, but all washed out by him showing up in georgia to turn himself in.

>> if it's not about donald trump, it's either ramaswamy, berg ham, asa hutchinson doesn't drool on ims himself. the expectations are so low for most of the people on the stage, anything they do we see as a victory. >> we see trump debate at all before the november 2024 election? >> i think so. >> if his numbers start falling. or if he's bored. >> fair enough. >> it's irresistible, i think he will, but on his own terms. >> his numbers won't fall, he won't debate. >> really? >> it's over. >> not even with president biden? >> no. >> not even trying -- >> i don't think biden should debate with him. >> that was my question, does he get biden on the stage? >> no. it was a disaster. foss good for biden. he gained votes. i don't think the country was edified by that. that's getting way ahead of ourselves. tennessee has overcome this kind of a lead. hilary was up 28 points on an unknown senator barack obama, he beat her. 28 points is not 40.

these candidates are not barack obama. >> paul "put a fork in it" begala. >> republican strategist, giving him some points tonight. >> i can't help it, it's my nature. >> this has been wonderful. thank you so much. elliot williams, kristin stoltz anderson, thank you for joining us. thank you for joining me this evening. i'm paula reid. we'll have coverage of former president trump's vender in georgia all week, as well as coverage of the gop debate. join us on wednesday for the republican presidential debate postgame analysis hosted by anderson cooper and dana bash at 11:00 p.m. eastern. "giuliani: what happened to america's mayor?" is up next. mayo r, rudy giuliani. - today, i am officially announcing my withdrawal as a candidate for president of the united states. ladies and gentlemen! >> america's mayor. >> rudy giuliani!

>> today i'm officially announcing my withdrawal as a candidate for president of the united states. >> very difficult night for rudy giuliani. >> we are going to make our country great again. >> giuliani sees one thing. opportunity. >> trump is clearly the best choice. >> he thought, this will put me back in the spotlight. >> what i did for new york, donald trump will do for america! >> i moved in on her, actually. and i failed. i'll admit it. >> whoa. >> i did [ bleep ]. she was married. >> breaking news, right now david farenholt of the "washington post" got his hands on a tape. when the "access hollywood" tape dropped, i was on air. >> donald trump and billy bush had something of a raunchy conversation. >> when you're a star, they let you do it.

you can do anything. >> whatever you want? >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> he's bragging about committing sexual assault. so i was just stunned. absolutely stunned. >> there is a political storm that has erupted. >> already a parade of republicans has either condemned trump's comments, withdrawn their support completely, or called on him to step down. >> any truth that you're dropping out? >> no. >> kellyanne conway, reince priebus, others were scheduled to be on the sunday shows. all of them canceled their appearances. the one person who went on to defend him in wake of that was rudy giuliani. >> joining me now is former new york city mayor and donald trump supporter, rudy giuliani. >> rudy giuliani, top advisor to donald trump -- >> thank you. thanks for having me back. >> that was a moment for rudy giuliani to really step and up show that he was willing to be donald trump's number one defender, number one attack dog. >> men at times talk like that. i don't know how much he was exaggerating. i don't know how much is true. he's a different man now than he

was. men say stupid things in locker rooms. we should move on. >> rudy giuliani bet on trump when very few people were doing so. he stuck with trump after the "access hollywood" tape. shameful, but you know, you do this because you're expecting the reward. >> i guess there are a few perfect people, but in my view, there's only been one. that was jesus christ. >> cnn can report that hillary clinton has called donald trump to concede the race. >> i'm enormously excited for the country. i believe donald trump will be a truly great president. this is probably one of the greatest victories for the people of america since andrew jackson. >> the election of donald trump

to the white house shocks the country from coast to coast. >> i'm so proud to call him the president of the united states. >> even people who are pulling for donald trump are amazed that he won. >> it felt like this incredible period of uncertainty. >> who is that, is that the mayor that showed up? rudy? >> the morning after the 2016 presidential election, if you're rudy giuliani and donald trump had just been elected president of the united states, you're feeling that there's tons of opportunity ahead. >> what's your role expected to be? >> i have no expectation. all i do is give my advice. i've done my friend for 28 years. my work on behalf of him has been out of great loyalty and friendship to him. >> whatever rudy wants, rudy gets. he was the guy who stood by trump. >> whatever he said, bill clinton did much worse. >> his top pick is secretary of state. >> is this true?

you want to be secretary of state? >> whatever i want to be, i'll discuss with the president-elect. >> rudy's developed a network of contacts in countries across the world in the wake of anyone anyone, and his geopolitical rock star status where he's treated almost like an ex-president as he traveled around the world. >> i think he thought being secretary of state would be a good way to stay in the game. >> you're not president, you're not vice president. secretary of state is the most prestigious job in the cabinet. and i think that he saw that as an alternate to the presidential ambitions that were never going to be fulfilled. >> john would be a very good choice. >> anybody else? >> maybe me, i don't know. >> what was happening behind the scene s is concerns about rudy and whether he was up for the challenge here. >> trump talking about rudy giuliani, may not actually be a lock for the position of secretary of state.

>> there's one moment in trump tower where jason miller comes out of the bullpen of his team and says, we need someone to go in there and just lob questions at rudy to see what he says. everybody scatters. the aide who does get picked is horrified by what he hears. a question about, when is the last time you've traveled to the middle east? that question comes with enough stammering that they have a follow-up meeting. the aide asks rudy giuliani, you told me yesterday you hadn't been to the middle east for a year, are you sure about that? are there any other trips you can remember? giuliani's face goes blank. turns out his secretary had said rudy had just been in the middle east a month ago. >> if you talk to people who were talking to trump at the time, they say he was never seriously considered for it. which is probably more revealing

in and of itself of the dynamic of the relationship between the two of them. >> the relationship between trump and rudy is really a fraught one. it's one where trump really values giuliani's defense of him. >> hess the best mayor in the history of new york -- >> shows his appreciation, shows his love for rudy with backhand and criticisms. >> he ran for the presidential reserve why i and it totally went up in flames, so for donald trump, he's a loser. >> steve mnuchin, his new treasury secretary, is getting married in washington. giuliani is very excitedly talking. and trump stops him. "rudy, you're spitting all over, go stand over there." and rudy does. >> rudy thought trump was going to appoint hem secretary of

state, and that didn't work. so he keeps around the margins in any way he can trying to get back to the center of the action. >> one has to really appreciate to understand the arc of rudy giuliani how intoxicating fame and power are. for a politician to lose relevance is gutting. what happens to political and media figures when they fear irrelevance and go off the deep end to become relevant again? >> i don't think he really got over losing the race for president. he misses the action. he wants to be a player. >> we've got some major news that we're still absorbing as we speak right now that broke overnight, a bombshell report from "the new york times" claiming that the fbi launched an investigation into president trump to see if he was working

for russia and against the united states. >> most of trump's first two years in office are overshadowed by allegations of colluding with russia to try to tilt the 2016 election, and those eventually land in the lap of the special counsel, robert mueller. >> i said, "you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story." >> the president needs a fighter. he needs somebody who he thinks will push back against this investigation, against the press obsession with the investigation with the same zeal that he would. and that is why he calls up his old friend rudy giuliani and says, "i need you to fight for me here." (andi) it's our right to let the dishes soak overnight. (rob) and to mow the lawn... tomorrow-ish. (ben) we proudly declare that yes, we are still watching that. (ariel) and no, we won't be cooking tonight.

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- it's divorce number three for rudy giuliani, new york city's former mayor. and at a hearing today, it became clear that things it's divorce number three

for rudy giuliani, new york city's former mayor. and at a hearing today, it became clear that things are taking a nasty turn. >> since 2016, you see him without any of the tethers that guided him in more productive directions. >> peter powers was rudy's closest confidant since their boyhood days. if anyone could center him, it was peter. was anyone who could calm him down, it was peter. and when peter died during the trump campaign, rudy lost his lifeline. >> and i think that's what happens to him. he's more alone than early rudy was. >> rudy giuliani is finally an official member of the trump team. the former new york mayor now joining the president's legal team. >> he wants to do battle the way he knows how to do battle, which

is on twitter and on tv. >> he is treated differently and unfairly. >> i have no problem with that. >> he's innocent. >> he wants giuliani the prosecutor to prosecute the press, to prosecute the prosecutors. >> you got a hysteria going on in the media that interprets everything against donald trump. >> there's no hysteria here. >> and that is what takes giuliani all the way through the trump years. >> wait, wait. jake, jake, we are so distorting the system of justice just to get donald trump, it's gonna hurt us. >> he was spending a lot of time in the west wing. he was somebody who was constantly on call for the former president to reach out to. and i think this kind of brought back together this on-again, off-again longstanding bromance between the two, of these tough, of-a-certain-era new york men. >> he has this direct access without any of the responsibility or any of the accountability. >> as a skilled professional who figured out who to climb his way up in the legal world and then up in the political world, that he figured, "okay, now i'm in the trump world. what do i need to do to succeed in this world?"

and in this world, loyalty is 100%, obedience is 100%, and he just decided, "well, this is the world i'm going to be in, and i'm just going to do this." >> almost immediately, as giuliani joins the team in a formal way, he's doing a lot of press. >> when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's gonna tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly, because it's somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation about -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go, like -- >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. the president of the united states says, "i didn't --" >> truth isn't truth? mr mayor, do you realize what -- i mean -- >> there's a moment inside the white house where trump aides start criticizing what giuliani has said on air, and trump barks at them all and says, "at least rudy's out there defending me." >> when did you find out? >> i'll tell you what. rudy knows it's a witch-hunt. he started yesterday.

he'll get his facts straight. he's a great guy. >> in 2018, joe biden is clearly gearing up for a presidential run and is widely perceived as the front-runner. remember, in 2007, when joe biden was making his second run for the presidency and rudy giuliani was making his first, joe biden famously, in a democratic debate, just dismissed giuliani. >> there's only three things he mentioned in a sentence -- a noun and verb and 9/11. i mean, there's nothing else. there's nothing else. >> giuliani never has gotten over that, ever. >> rudy giuliani called former vice president joe biden a moron and mentally deficient idiot. >> i believe that he always needs to define himself through an enemy, right? so, catholic school, he was

good, and there were other kids who were bad. and then he's a prosecutor and he's gonna lock up the bad guys. and then he's mayor and he's gonna lock up the squeegee guys and jaywalkers. and now it's biden. >> rudy starts kind of, from what i can best say, fancying himself as like, you know, the new roger stone. opposition research is as old as the game of politics, but it's the lengths he went to. this is the former mayor new york, this rah-rah, pro-america kind of guy, who was looking for dirty tricks to try to harm an american political opponent of his friend donald trump. >> giuliani's been doing business all around the world, and one of the places on the map where he started developing relationships is ukraine. and who was the obama administration point person for dealing with ukraine? it was joe biden. just think about how rich an opportunity that is for rudy

giuliani, who wants to prove himself for donald trump. >> giuliani had one aim and one aim only, and that was how to [ bleep ] up joe biden. >> you can't make this stuff up. joe biden's son, hunter biden, was making money off of a company owned by a ukrainian oligarch. if giuliani could somehow find a connection between joe biden taking official action to help his son enrich himself in ukraine, he thinks that's gonna be a golden moment for donald trump. >> over the beginning of 2019, i start getting texts from rudy about ukraine, texts about how hunter biden was corrupt in ukraine and people need to look into this. >> at this point, giuliani has really left truth and facts to the side. he has fully joined the conspiratorial mentality of president trump and his

administration, totally signed on to that. >> rudy wants to build a case, so he goes to get evidence. now, one of the problems is, is he falls into this murky world of russia and ukraine and all sorts of competing agendas. and he demonstrates very little discernment as to who is a reliable source and who isn't. the problem is, this wasn't some back-room deal in queens. this was about democracy in ukraine surviving. >> as rudy is ramping up this campaign in ukraine to try and get these investigations, he starts feeling like he's running into this roadblock, and that is the us ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch. >> i heard very, very hard things about her for a long period of time. not good. >> yovanovitch was recalled by president trump because rudy giuliani accused her of hampering efforts to dig up dirt on joe biden.

>> rudy giuliani was saying that she was the corrupt one, even though she was there pushing back on corrupt figures in ukraine. >> the taking down, the smearing, and the attempt to destroy the career of a career foreign service official for this obscure political personal errand. it was the early warning signal. it was the shocking moment of clarity that should have been but wasn't. >> the idea that rudy is this powerful international wheeler-dealer and that he was going to go over to ukraine and he was going to pull the strings of power, this whole thing was shambolic, it was crapulous, it it was just -- it was going to be exactly the [ bleep ] show it turned into from the beginning. 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max challenge. ♪ ♪

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- when you make your decisions based on your pride or based on your ego, you can do very damaging things to yourself. when you make your decisions based on your pride or based on your ego, you can do very damaging things to yourself. and so rudy took that to the fourth power. >> "the new york times" reporting that the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani,

is pressing a foreign country, ukraine, to take actions to help trump get re-elected in 2020. this is giuliani talking. "we're not meddling in an election. we're meddling in an investigation." >> "there's nothing illegal about it." >> what giuliani and trump want to happen here is an investigation into hunter biden. both of them view an investigation as politically advantageous. it doesn't really matter what the outcome is, as long as they can use that as a political cudgel against the son of joe biden who, at this point, is clearly the biggest threat to a second term for president trump. >> he's running around representing himself as sort of an arm of the state department, a representative of the president. >> giuliani and the people who are trying to help him started building relationships with the people they thought would be in power. >> in the meantime, ukraine elects a new president. >> volodymyr zelenskyy, an actor best known for playing the president of ukraine, was elected to lead that country. >> i think, at this time, president zelenskyy was a relatively unknown player on the

world stage. he had won this election in ukraine, but he had this background as a popular comedian. zelenskyy parlayed this role, in which a kind of new i don't have but well-intentioned schoolteacher becomes the president of ukraine, into becoming the president of ukraine. this throws a wrench into the interests of rudy giuliani. >> that election creates a whole new dynamic that giuliani then tries to navigate and game out. this is a fragile new government. obviously, recent events show that there is an external danger to ukraine that they cannot ignore. the dangle from rudy is, "we could offer you a public show of support to get a meaningful investigation of hunter biden." >> rudolph giuliani was not a diplomat. rudolph giuliani was not an ambassador. rudolph giuliani was not the secretary of state.

rudolph giuliani was a hired political gun working to advance donald trump's partisan electoral interests. >> this scandal is a scandal of major proportions. >> all right, are you done now? because you haven't said anything -- >> no, i'm not done now. >> but you can't just talk the whole time. >> mueller, that july, testifies in a very clearly lackluster performance to congress. >> the finding indicates that the president was not -- >> trump not only felt this sense of exoneration, he also had this sense of vengeance. >> i think robert mueller did a horrible job, both today and with respect to the investigation. >> he did nothing wrong, that he wasn't involved in collusion, that he wasn't involved in obstruction. >> it's in this mind-set where, that morning, trump picks up the phone for a call with president zelenskyy. >> the president says, "there's a lot of talk about biden's son, so if you can look into it, it sounds horrible to me."

>> trump spends the call asking zelenskyy, very specifically, to help him investigate hunter biden. >> white house notes of that call show that when zelenskyy asked for a shipment of anti-tank missiles, trump countered with these words, "i would like you to do us a favor, though." >> what zelenskyy doesn't realize is that inside the white house, trump has put a hold on several hundred million dollars of aid to ukraine, in anticipation of zelenskyy agreeing to these investigations. >> many of those who are close to donald trump think that none of this would have happened without rudy giuliani. ukraine was giuliani's deal. these were his connections. these were his sources. this was his rogue foreign policy. >> i don't know that i think the average american at that time understood why it was so important that we give the security assistance to the ukrainians. i think now, in 2022, when

russia's invading ukraine and slaughtering innocent ukrainian civilians, our longstanding ally, we understand why we had a role and an obligation to do that. >> zelenskyy held firm, and it was a weird preview that this young guy, who they thought was a trifle -- they thought, "oh, he's a punk. he's nobody. he's a comedian. you know, he's an accidental president." he's turned out to be a greater leader, in a time of terrible, terrible crisis, than either trump or rudy. [ speaking in a non-english language ] >> the curtain was lifted today on an anonymous whistleblower's explosive complaint against president trump, detailing his ask for political help from ukraine's president. >> giuliani is mentioned in the whistleblower complaint more than 30 times. >> pointing that july phone call between president trump and ukraine's president. >> that was a perfect call. an absolutely perfect call. you know it. they all know it.

>> i'm announcing the house of representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. >> and everybody's attention started turning to one man, and that was rudy giuliani. rudy's influence led to trump's impeachment over these ukraine issues. >> it's again this moment of everybody working to sort of contain the rudy influence and keep him away from the president, and yet the president keeps seeking him out. >> rudy giuliani is not a guy who backs down. rudy is a guy who doubles down. >> whenever giuliani was on the defensive when he was mayor, his response was to attack. >> i don't remember him ever apologizing, saying, "i shouldn't have said that" or "i overreacted." >> and you see that throughout the impeachment process. >> what you just said is totally wrong. it's completely wrong. >> this was a period where all his friends were kind of begging him to lay low, to stop going on

tv and pressing this case, and he couldn't do it. >> i've got the documents, i've got the proof, and i've got the witnesses. >> one person i spoke to who met with him around that time described driving around in a cab with rudy, and rudy, on two occasions during the same drive, rolled down his window to high-five construction workers who were waving at him. even at the height of the ukraine investigation, when you were having all these administration officials testify about how horrified they were by what rudy had been doing abroad, he just seemed to having the time of his life. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows.

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- about 10 days before the 2020 election, this clip gets released of the borat movie. - you can give me your phone number and your address. about 10 days before the 2020 election, this clip gets released of the "borat" movie. >> you can give me your phone number and your address. >> put down your crumb. she 15. she too old for you. >> it's sort of another blow to rudy and to his credibility. >> i had to take off the electronic equipment, and when the electronic equipment came off and i tucked my shirt in -- i assure you that's all i was doing. i realize now that this is a setup, and then, all of a sudden crazy sacha baron cohen runs in with a cape on and he's yelling and screaming all kinds of stupid stuff. >> i do recall thinking, at some point, as things went along, that this was not the person i

knew. many of the things that he was doing were just baffling. >> it's election night in america, and a nation in crisis is at a crossroads. >> rudy giuliani was one of donald trump's most trusted advisers on election night 2020. to get there, you had to be somebody that told donald trump what he wanted to hear, not telling him the truth. >> the first exit polls just coming in tonight. president trump at the white house this evening. >> rudy giuliani understood something on election night 2020, which many of donald trump's other advisers did not, which is that donald trump meant it when he said he wasn't going to accept the results of the election. >> trump's second election night goes much differently than his first one. this one, for starters, is inside the white house. it's a who's who of trump world, and that guest list, of course, includes rudy giuliani. >> for the early portion of the evening, some fairly prominent reporters were texting me,

saying, "wow, it looks like he might do it again." >> i can't wait to get the results in. >> and if he doesn't win? >> that's not even an option. >> i think he's gonna win by a lot. that's my interpretation. >> four more years! four more years! >> i was in the east wing when the arizona call came. >> fox news called arizona, and that angered all the people around the president. >> and the mood changed, fundamentally. >> giuliani is furiously scrambling to figure out how to help the president. all of the people yelling suggestions. trump not knowing what to do. until one moment when rudy giuliani pipes up and says, "just say you won." >> giuliani once said a pretty remarkable thing. he said, "you could throw a fake." and what he means is, in politics, you can embellish,

exaggerate, maybe just, you know, throw something out there that you don't have any real basis to believe is true. and that's what he did. >> we were getting ready to win this election. frankly, we did win this election. we did win this election. >> make no mistake about it -- donald trump himself is delusional. rudolph giuliani helped to contribute to those delusions of grandeur that exist within donald trump's head about the election being stolen from him. >> i think that he felt like the 1989 election was stolen from him, that the voting system was rigged. >> a few of my advisers and other people that actually came to see us, to urge me to contest the election, and they presented us with what they regarded as evidence of voter tampering, voter fraud. >> we see an early premonition of what we're gonna see years later. >> we were living through, i believe, the worst voter-fraud

scandal in the history of our country. they steal elections in detroit. >> representative, you'll have an opportunity to ask a question. >> and they steal elections in new york. >> president trump has put his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, in charge of his campaign's election lawsuits. >> giuliani becomes a real central figure for trump as trump is beginning to devise any strategy to hold on to power. >> giuliani, who's been on the road in four states, leading the president's election challenge. >> his team has already filed lawsuits in michigan, georgia, and pennsylvania. >> we are going to continue the lawsuit here, we're gonna bring a second one, and then we're gonna bring a federal lawsuit. >> i don't think he believed that trump won the election. i don't think he believes that trump was a great president or a lousy one. i think this is immaterial to him. what's material is that he's standing up there talking about donald trump before thousands of people. >> giuliani -- he's on television constantly. he's holding bizarre press conferences, like the

never-to-be-forgotten four seasons landscaping press conference. >> trump tweets that there's going to be a press conference by his attorneys at the four seasons. >> two minutes after that, he deleted the first tweet and started over. "big press conference today in philadelphia at four seasons total landscaping." oh, that four seasons. of course. he means four seasons total landscaping, located just down the block from fantasy island adult books and video store and across the street from the delaware valley cremation center. >> it's so embarrassing, you couldn't even write it. >> 700,000 votes that disappeared. pshoo! >> giuliani is insisting that they will continue to fight, when a reporter interrupts him and tells him that the election had been called. >> who was it called by? >> all the networks. >> oh, then -- oh my goodness. all the networks. wow! all the networks.

>> of course, it would end up like this, with rudy giuliani making an ass of himself while donald trump officially loses the presidency and is in the golf course. >> this legal team, aka the clown car of incompetence, has now lost close to 50 cases in a month. >> most of them, i mean, basically laughed out court. >> inside courtrooms, nearly every single attempt from trump, the trump campaign, and his allies are rebuked by judges, who wanted to see some measure of proof that simply doesn't exist. >> dismissals in michigan, georgia, nevada, arizona, and i'll tell you, it's rare to see courts throw out cases this quickly. >> we're gonna stick with this. we're gonna win this election. we've actually won it. >> and i believe biden and his crew tried to steal the votes. i believe it is totally fraud. >> i'm just not believing that biden won in any way, shape, or form.

>> everybody knows they stole it. >> recount! recount! recount! >> there's this drumbeat coming from trump, coming from rudy, coming from a lot of their supporters of, "this election is fake. we need to stand up for voters and for the integrity of our elections, and we need to stop this from happening." >> stop the steal! stop the steal!

- one of the clearest inflection points in that post election period for giuliani is that famous press conference at the republican national committee.

inflection points in that post-election period for giuliani is that famous press conference at the republican national committee. >> good afternoon. >> i mean, this is, i think, the clearest picture americans have gotten of rudy giuliani totally detached from reality. this, to me, is the button to that rise and fall that we talk about over giuliani's public life. >> did you all watch "my cousin vinny"? you know the movie? it's one of my favorite law movies because he comes from brooklyn. >> i don't like to mock people or anything like that. i actually do remember thinking in that moment, "why is his family letting him do this?" >> i prosecuted some of the most dangerous criminals in the world. i know crimes. i can smell them. >> this is a man who is a student of american history, who could have given you lectures

about our democracy and the need for a peaceful transfer of power. >> you know, we use, largely, a venezuelan voting machine, in essence, to count our vote. if we let this happen, we're gonna become venezuela. >> he's too smart to believe some of the nonsense that he's been spouting. you know, the monkey business with the ballots and, you know, venezuela being involved. i mean, this is just nutty stuff. >> fast-forward to hair dye running down his face. >> so, the only evidence rudy has uncovered is that he's not a natural brunette. >> i could tell you, the second he saw that line of makeup or hair gel or whatever the hell it was oozing off of rudy's head, that donald trump, a man with a more than passing acquaintance with makeup, immediately wrote rudy off.

>> you know your legal strategy is [ bleep ] up when even your hair starts crying about it. >> there's a lost capacity for shame. and shame is a self-regulating function. and in giuliani's case, earlier in his career, i think this actually served the public interest fairly well. that moment is now long gone, and he's just a man with lots and lots of pie on his face to go with the dripping hair dye and, you know, the general sense of, like, a corroded and decayed human being. >> the menace gets lost in the clown show. he's standing there perpetrating a big lie about our most sacrosanct thing, which is our democracy. yet, it actually is the genesis of what came closer to an american coup than we've ever had. >> we are the majority and trump won. trump won! trump won! trump won!

>> the night before january 6th, rallygoers had start assembling. >> and i can tell you to this day, donald trump won the election! >> they were so loud that trump could hear them in the oval office that evening. >> greatest nation on earth -- >> trump opened the doors on this chilly january evening and started calling aides into his office. "can you hear them outside?" he'd ask. "can you hear how excited they are?" >> i woke up that morning, and, you know, there was a sense of real menace in washington and there had been for a couple days. >> there is a new republican party on the rise. >> we're coming for you and we're gonna have a good time doing it. this is the greatest group of patriots ever put together. >> what does giuliani do on january 6th? >> please welcome america's mayor, rudy giuliani. >> he takes the stage at the

stop the steal rally on the ellipse just south of the white house. you can see the white house in the distance. and he fires up this crowd. >> this has been a year in which they have invaded our freedom of speech, our freedom of religion, our freedom to move, our freedom to live. i'll be darned if they're going to take away our free and fair vote! and we're going to fight to the very end to make sure that doesn't happen. over the next ten days we get to see the machines that are crooked, the ballots that are fraudulent, and if we're wrong we will be made fools of. but if we're right a lot of them will go to jail. so let's have trial by combat. >> rudy giuliani arguing that he wasn't literally advocating for insurrection when he spoke at a pro-trump rally in washington just before rioters stormed the

capitol. >> when i heard him say "trial by combat," that was decisive for me. he absolutely enabled an attack on our democracy and tried to overturn an election. and that's completely unforgivable. >> when you see him being one of the speakers leading into january 6th look at the footage of the police riot. when dave dinkins was mayor. that's who rudy was. he's just not able to finesse it like he used to. but that's rudy. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier,

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[all shouting] - trump and giuliani showed, as the whole trump presidency

showed, that a small, smaller than you think minority, trump and giuliani showed, as the whole trump presidency showed, that a small, smaller than you think minority could wreak absolute havoc with the american system. we want trump. - for somebody who once championed the rule of law and tried his cases in court, for him to be the instrument of--of essentially undermining the system of law and having people lose faith in our democracy is a horrible way to end your career. because of the damage that you have already done to our system and even greater danger that may lie ahead. [all shouting] - hey, giuliani, [bleep] you!

yeah, [bleep] you. - he's just fallen so far, and he keeps falling. so the only thing that kind of ties it all together is that people are still talking about him. whether he's going up or he's going down, he's in the conversation. and maybe that's what it's all about for him. now he once told a reporter, you know, whatever, whatever they say about me, i'll be dead one day, i don't care. and that may be true. but he's still alive and he still has to think about it. - my father would say to me, when you make a decision, the most important thing you've got to think about is, can you shave the next morning and look at yourself in the mirror and feel good about yourself.

- i do not think that rudy giuliani understands that there has been a tremendous erosion of his reputation that he has caused at all. he looks in the mirror and he sees the hero of 9/11. - and those of us who are here have to defend freedom by going about our lives unafraid. - i saw him walking down the street about two weeks after they raided his house. i looked out the side of the car and i said, here's giuliani. i didn't even roll the window down. it would have been beyond even me to be able to predict he'd

end up the way he's ended up. here's a man now who got there with divisiveness and polarizing, and by some luck, was able to resurrect himself to being the nation's mayor. got a second chance, and then he erodes it all. it is almost unthinkable. at the end of the day, rudy giuliani was not brought down by those of us that opposed him. he was not brought down by his critics. rudy giuliani was brought down by rudy giuliani. [somber piano music] ♪ ♪ - if rudy had left public life either after 9/11 or after 2008, when he dies in a few years, they would name high schools after him.

they would rename laguardia airport after him. he would go down as a complex, weird, funny, strange, highly accomplished guy, who at two key inflection points in history, stood up and offered powerful leadership. that man's gone, unfortunately. it's tragic. ♪ welcome to "the whole story." i'm anderson cooper. former president donald trump