false. it was]( dated 2020. this is your client writing, although the president signed a verification for the state court filings back on decembereç 1st,e made aware some: of the evidenc by the experts has been inaccurate. that was filed in federal court despite the knowledge. how do you then reconcile that with ethical bounds if he knew the underlying evidence was false and phone any, how is this a defense?, >> there was a suit filed and later on there was a suit filed in federal court. there was a period of time where

they department think the state court was moving fast enough. during that period of time, they discovered there were clerical errors. that shows attorneys were being careful to make sure that the filings that were made in the second suit, the federal suit took proper account of the mistakes they had uncovered. >> these are just a couple missed commas? >> two numbers were switched. the overall number of allegedz illegal votes wasn't accurately represented. this is my understanding. the two'ú numbers were switched. so the overall number of illegal votes was correct, but two

categories got switched. that's what they were trying to account for. that's what that was. >> a broader question here, your clients still believe the election was stolen. dozens of cases went nowhere. there was no evidence of widespread fraud. how much does that belief fact how you defend him? >> i think there's two things. at the former public defender, the courts can get things wrong. but more important ly what eastman focused on was not so much the fraud aspect of this, but the#rlegality. which means not necessarily criminal fraud, but votes being cast in violation of the manner of the election prescribed by constitutional underpinnings. but the second thing is the issue that's going to be presented to a jury.

but it's going to be focused on were the arguments thatúìc% challenged the election made in good faith. i'm confident they will see they were. one thing being involved in this case have very serious concerns about the election and still have them today. dr. eastman is one of these people. >> some of these efforts from your client, i want youe to listen to another of his attorneys in: describing how he approached the defense and how he approached these filings on behalf of donald trump. >> his role was 100% that of a lawyer trying to come up with creative ideas that pushed the margin of the law in order to reverse the electoral college count. so he's on trial for being a lawyer who was coming up with creative ideas.

>> the margin of the law, what did that mean and how does that differ from breaking it? >> it differs. it goes back to my first point. nothing heed a vo caughted for was the supreme court precedent or other binding authority. that's important. that's critical. what he was referring top(=z■ax was the fact that we would never deny that eastman's theories were aggressive and cutting edge. they were creative. certainly there are counterarguments, but÷ñ that mas them h unpopular throughout our history. women in military academy, integration of schools, there's list. you might say those ideas were good, and i think eastman's ideas were bad, buth whole point. many innovations were criticized ande. ridicule d at the beginni. and eastman's advocacy was well placed within that tradition.p >> one more here.

the federal case, eastman is named as a t has there byeeen any conversatis has there byeeen any conversatis with cooperation wi

lawyering. you're allowed to make ridiculous arguments and arguments that you believe will lose. heaven help us if it became a crime for lawyers to make losing arguments. sometimes you say this i-don't think it's a winner, but the best i can do for my client. the challenge for prosecutors is they have to show something more than that. they have to show something that shouldn't be resolved in the ethics court that goes beyond, and you pinpointed, eastman was part of knowingly submitting false information to a kourlt, that crosses a line. now he had a response whether that's credible or not will be up to the jury. >> that was a great conversation. one of the things that was striking to me is the argument near the end equating to the virginia military institute and saying a lot of these arguments were made that people thought were out there. i'm paraphrasing. they change d america.

that decision was an equal protection 14lnth amendment argument. can you equate this like that? >> that was saying it's not legal to have men allowed into a school. >> we would be in big trouble. let's make up an analogy. what if one of the lawyers submitted false information knowingly to the supreme court, data about the student body, data about applicants. now you're potentially crossing a line. the other thing that prosecutors will point to is john eastman's involvement in the fake elector scheme. the submission of these forms where trumph electors said we ae the duly elected lelectors, whih they were not. the fake electors, that's the two hooks that prosecutors are going to have to use to say this is not about lawyering. this is about criminality. as you just showed, this is not an easy case for prosecutors.

again, let let's note knot get to the point where this was terrible lawyering. all the smartest lawyers disagree. that's not a crime. they have to show something more. they think they have it. maybe they do. >> thank you. donald trump's rivals will try to seize the spotlight at the presidential debate tonight. he won't be on the stage michael smerconish is up early for his take. covid cases on the rise, and more health experts warn it might be time to mask up again. dr. sanjay gupta will break down ththe latest guidance. ♪ fastsigns. mamake your statement. how white do you think your teeth really are? let's try the tissue test. ooof, still yellow. whitening toothpaste can only do so much. there's toothpaste whi, and there's crest 3d whitestrs white.

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i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? pretty sad. and i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. we set up the patriotic kenny foundation to give mobility scooters to veterans. it has changed my life tremendously. none of this would've happened without tiktok. the first republicanñk deba is tonight. eight hopefuls will stand on the stage. ron desantis and vivek ramaswam@

share the center of the stage, but the main attraction,@t dona trump will not be there. he's going to counter program. happy to be with a special appearance. it's always,s a big morning wit you get michael smerconish. it's a big morning if you're with us. what are you looking at tonight2 >> nice to see you. is it going to be a circular firing squad? s it'sol5 an odd situation wher you have the prohibitive favorite not on the stage tonight. he's four times indicted, and yet, 6 of the 8 on the stage tonight have hereto for been unwilling to go after him for those indictments. if you sized this up, you would think it's bizarre. it is. the reason they won't go after him is they are afraid of alienating the base.

so tonight, what's going to happen? are they going to fight for table scraps? going after ron desantis and vivek ramaswamy, or do they finally go after the big cheese? and one of the things to think about is 120 minutes divided by 8, there's not much time for each of these candidates. >> you're considering the time. do they get to policy? they were hoping that we get some policy. this is early in the process. the first debate, not in one of the earlier states or do you expect they will get to the meat of the issues? >> i thinkd0q will be a combination of both trump2 focused, whether they want it or not, chris christie and asa hutchinson and the debate moderators have said they are going to address the elephant not in the room. there will be policy considerations but in 60 seconds, the format is such that you only get 60 seconds for a

response tonight. my commercial breaks are like 4 minutes long. it's just not much time. as much as we think we want to hear substance, it will be the fireworks that make the headlines. i have an idea. here's how they could do it differently tonight. you remember mad mutually assured destruction? how about in the green room, they all come to terms and say, look, we're all afraid to go after trump because we don't want to alienate the base. but if we all go after trump, no one of us is going to be held accountable. that's really what needs to happen. !ñ?åú8wbu$o is with me? let's do it. >> how many had hands do you see going up for that? >> the brave. >> christie and >> so to your point, about a 3t; me think. if they do that and kill one another, that justji makes trum stronger, doesn't it? it's less likely to elevate

someone aboveá trump. >> yes. and the data shows all of thesei polls are consistent that he's benefitted. his+> approval rating among republicans is enhanced 10%.í: during which time nothing else has happened except he's bye-bye indicted. it's not as iféç you can say donald trump put forth a policy statement. no, the only thingk4 of consequence that has happened is he's been indicted and his numbers amongh republicans have gone up. that's why the others were afraid to take him on. >> he did puwç a tariff on everything. so there's that. i would love to see them debate bha that would mmmean. but i doubt we're going to get to that. >> from my days in radio was the call-in eggment where people would tell you what they are looking for. what are you hearing from your listeners? >> i think people are just most

eager to see them altogether and size them up. because we have seen them individually in drips and drabs. most of the oxygen has been focused on trump. maybe it's a good thing in that respect that he's not there and others will get their opportunity to make their pitch. but it's as if the preseason has come and gone and we're ready to really begin this process in earnest. i think that's what i most hear and sense from callers. >> they are open minded. >> well, some are open minded. i happen to believe there were a significant number of republicans ready to abandon donald trump, but to do it on their own terms. i they don't want to be told what to do. i equated this on my own cnn program with a domestic disturbance and when the police arrive, all of a sudden the family fighting within themselves, they turn on the outside source. i think the gop might have sorted this it out, but the perception is among republicans that these indictments are

political. therefore, they rally around the flag and the flag is donald trump. >> michael smerconish, thank you. you can watch "smerconish" here on cnn saturdays at 9:00 a.m. eastern. how are democrats planning to respond to the debate tonight? the chair of the democratic national committee will tell us, next. need. we call it “the subaru love promise” and we are p proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom.org. it's just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. subaru. more than a car company.

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ú paying attention, so we'reai gog to uearn it in the state of iow. >> it would be a job fair on the stage in the5/ debate rather th to be asñ place where the truths told, honest differences are aired out, and the public can

make an informed decision. >> the best advice i have ever got is don't make it boring. >> tonight eight republican candidates will try to do that, not to make it boring, without donald trump there. they will take the stage in milwaukee, but the dnc and president biden's reelection campaign hope to provide some counterprogramming. that i can a look. >> i feel like joe biden understands people like me. >> all of the things that biden fought to get passed help the middle class. the people i deal with on a day-to-day basis are getting a pay rise. what president biden has accomplished is helping real people. >> that ad is part of a larger $25 million television and digital blitz highlighting the president's handling of the economy. joining us now/p is jamie harrison. good to see you. let's start here with what this ad campaign is aiming to accomplish.

>> first and foremost, it's set ing the contrast between the two parties right fou. this contest in 2024 is really going to be a battle between hope versus fear. unity versus division, versus chaos. we will see that on the the t with all of the republicans that are running for president. they are running to be the most extreme, running to be trump-like in many ways. so that contrast is stark between who joe biden is. joe biden believes that our better days are ahead of us and notten behind us. republicans believe our best days are behind us. so we are going to paint that picture tonight. get your popcorn. it's going to be a circus. >> let's talk about the economic message that mentioned in that ad. our cnn poll from earlier this

month shows that despite some of the positive narratives that are in these ads, 63% of americans disapprove of the way the president is happened lg the id8his campaign has focused on economy. it does not appear to work. why? >> you have to keep going out people connect. becauser they are happiéejt because of his policies. consumer confidence is up. job satisfaction is up. unemployment at a record low right now. we just heard the head of the position talk about manufacturing like he's never seen before. that's all of the policies of joe that's all buzz of7 booidmentic. th infrastruc

the bridges, connect that with the person who actually got it done, which was joe biden and kamala harris and our democrats in the house and senate. >> you talk about the things going up. gas prices are going up. 25 cents over the! 1 last month. a nickel off the price a year ago. the mortgage rates are going up. 20-year high, more than a 20-year high. and the administration did such a good job of explaining several years ago about how that's outside of the president's control. we get that, but this is what people feel. is there a vulnerability in tying the president's reelection campaign, using his name with economics when so many people feel so sourly aboutzxy+ñq the economy? is this a as a res-- is that a vulnerability for the president? >> what we have seen over time is@4)y we see this in contrast o

every / in the world that america is, again, at the head of the line.s we fight back on inflation. because of the inflation reduction act, we have seenpb a precipitous drop in terms of inflation. so every economicss shows we're not going into a recession. we areuf roaring back into the future on this economic message. so we're going to keep going aá it and constructing the roads and more bridges and keep employing people, making sure q just the minimum wage jobs thzz republicans want to restrict the american people to. and at the end of the tgday, th american people will see there's one party fighting for them, there's onecé party fighting ju for themselves and their own z]

>> part of the case that president biden has taken to the american people over hisy campaign and the first we heard of the administration has been about the cruelg and critical inflection point that america's democracy that the country finds let's listen to the president. this is philadelphia in 2022. >> while democracy is real, i want to say it's clearly as we can we are not power lless in t face of these threats. we are not bystanders in this ongoing attack in democracy.à there are for more americans, far more americans from every background and belief to reject the maga ideology than those that accept it. >> we understand the delicate

balance. he's running against donald trump and doesn't want to feed into the narrative of using video as a political persecution. how do you balance that with abandoning the argument that he took to the american people about the importance of reject about the importance of reject ingñ how do we find that balance? does he fall into the same xiu)urjz as the republican primary opponent where they stay away too? >> this is donald trump. he's running against what we have seen the republican party that is celebrating people like putin. he's fighting back against this extremism that we have seen in the republican party that believe as a rule of law doesn't

apply to everybody. regardless if it's donald trump who ends up being the republican nominee or a nikki haley or vivek or tim scott or chris christie, they are allb9÷ extre. all are rotten and we need to make sure the american people understand that. not rolling back those freedoms and rights that we fought so hard for in this country. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. take care. just into cnn, rudy giuliani expected l others are to surrender today at the fulton county jail in georgia. this is according to multiple sources. giuliani ishr among the 19 chard in the scheme to try to overturn the 2020 election. this is a big developmentk because as of last night, rudy giuliani didn't even have a

lawyer in georgia to handle this. >> reporter: that's right. it seems things have moved pretty quickly on the rudy giuliani front. we are learning he not only plans to come to georgia and meet with fani willis, he also plans to surrender today. he wants to do it in one go. sources are telling me and my colleague he wants to do this because he wants to get this done before donald trump comes to town. this is unusual because most co-defendants have been spread out over this process. they have negotiated their bond agreement one day and turned in the next. rudy giuliani seems to be a little bit of an exception in that regard. he's not the only one to surrender to the fulton county jail today. we're learn ing that former trup official mike roman, who was also charged in this indictment, he's expected to surrender. and several others could show up today. >> thank you for the update. we'll watch for that. covid numbers are going up.

you have probably seen more people around with masks on. is it necessary to mask again? dr. sanjay gupta is next. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! onlyly pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies n't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimt daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonas all good. - custom ink helps us motivate our students with custom gear. we love how custom ink takes care of everything we need, so we can focus on the kids. - [narrator] custom ink has hundreds of products to help you feel connected. upload your logo or start your design today at customink.com when nature and science get together... pretty sweet things can happen. like our senokot laxative gummies. to relieve occasional constipation, senokot starts with the natural senna plant that science transforms into a yummy gummy! sweet!

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with covid cases rising, some people are masking up. you have probably seen that in your naubd. what does it mean for you and for people at higher risk of severe illness? dr. sanjay gupta is with us with more. i keep thinking when i see people with masks on. am i making a mistake? what should we do? >> let me give you the good news

first. if you look at the country as a whole, you look at the map of the country, look at the cdc recommendations, most of the country is considered low risk. it's mostly rgreen. you have a few spots of yellow and a couple spots of orange where it's highqr risk, but gre means low hospital admission rates, which is the criteria for looking at whether or not we should go back to masking. if you're in the green area, it means that recommendation is not that you need to mask, but you still can mask for what you pointed out, if you're high risk or going to be around high risk people. i recently visited my parents in florida. i wore a mask. i tested ahead of time to try to keep them safe. if you're one of the lower categories, then depending on what you're doing exactly, it )jju you need to mask as well. so that's where we are. we're at an inflection point. we talked to a lot of 3experts

over the years who said he's gone back to masking. ;>":ichael osterholm is about t start masking. president biden should probably be masking.ñd so he's considered huer risk.r we're at this inflection point. numbers have been going up. the weather is going to get cooler and drier and they are probably going to go up more. if you have tested positive, if you have been exposed to someone with utcovid-19, those are the situations you should mask. >> you mentioned testing. it's beenñn awhile. my tests have expired. how should we be using these tests and doiú they work agains >> let me make this as clear aso possible. if you have some reason for suspicion, you have been exposed feelingñ symptoms, you should test. the way to test is you should do a test and then wait 48 hours$é and then test again. that would be the ideal way to do things. why? becauseqñ it can take sometimes

for the virus to develop a load clear and that may not be the case. on the second point, there's a lot of mutations. so people say will the old tests still work. a lot of the mutations occur around the spike protein. it's something that people know about. but the tests are actually tested for a different protein within the virus and that's typically stable. so the bottom line is it should still work against the new variants. really important point. there's not as many tests and you have to pay for them. but they still work and people should test, especially as we go into the cooler and drier weather. >> and check the expiration dates. thank you so much. vivek ramaswamy told our kaitlan collins that his comments about the atlantic

about 9/11 were misquoted. the atlantic released the audio tape and we have a fact check of all of it. and we aröw waiting to see rudy giuliani leave his new york city apartment before he heads to fulton county, georgia, where we learned he's expected to surrender today. more coverage, after this. (bridget) with thyroid eye disease i hid fromom the camera. and i wanted to hide f from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d. was beyond help... but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepea is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source not just the symptoms. in a clinical study more than 8 out of 10 patients takg tepezza had less eye bulging. tepezza is an infusion. patients taking tepezza may have infusion reactions. tell your doctor right away if you experience high blood pressure, fast heartbeat, shortness of breath or muscle pain. before getting tepezza, tell your doctor if you have diabetes,

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♪ audio refutes claims from republican presidential hopeful vivek ramaswamy who cold cnn that "the atlantic" misquoted his comments about 9/11. our kaitlan collins pressed ramaswamy on this quote from the article published monday. here it is. i think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents were on the planes that hit the twin towers. maybe the answer is zero. it probably is zero, for all i know, right? i have no reason to think it was anything other than zero. if we are doing comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9/11, we have a 9/11 commission, absolutely, that should be an answer the public knows the answer to. ramaswamy told kaitlan that's not what he said. danieldale joins us live this morning. we have some answers now about this, right? >> we do. the answer is that he was not misquoted at all. let's go through what happened. ramaswamy first told kaitlan he actually said something else to the atlantic i can that, he

thinks there were lots of federal agents in the field during the january 6, 2021, capitol riot and he believes the federal government lied in denying a saudi intelligence role in the 9/11 attacks. none of that explained why "the atlantic" had this quote about police and federal agencies on the planes hijacked on 911. so kaitlan pressed him on that. listen. >> are you telling me that your quote is wrong because it says how many federal agents were on the plane? >> when i actually -- this is just lifting the curtain how media works. i asked that reporter it send the recording because it was on the record. he refused. we had a free flowing conversation. there are lies the government told about 9/11. it's not the ones that somebody put in my mouth. >> "the atlantic" said he wasn't misquoted. so a he said/she said situation for a moment.

the only thing that "the atlantic" left out of that quote was a fraction of a sentence that he started but didn't finish. listen. >> i think it is legitimate to say how many police -- nhow man federal agents were on the plane that hit the twin towers. zero for all i know, right? but if we are doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9/11, we have a 9/11 commission, absolutely that should be an answer the public knows the answer to. >> so absolutely not a misquote. >> it was fascinating listening to that. it was four and a half minutes of audio that the atlantic released. i want to know what you heard from ramaswamy's campaign team when you reached out to them on all of this. >> yeah. so they are changing their tune but simultaneously claiming

vindication. instead of claiming he was misquoted. response was that the audio demonstrated that vivek was taken out of contest and the small snippet proves that, end quote. they want "the atlantic" to release more of the audio. it proves that the article had his quote in context. the article correctly said he was talking about january 6th and pivoted to 9/11 and then returned to january 6th. so even this campaign statement is nonsense. >> facts matter. thank you for the fact check this morning. also this big development this morning. we are waiting to see rudy giuliani leave his new york city apartment before he heads to fulton county, georgia. we learned in the last few minutes he is expected to surrender there today. much on this ahead. we handcry stearns & fofoster® using the finest materials, like indulgegent memory foam, anand ultra-conforming intellicoils®, for a beautiful mattress, and indescribable comfort... everery single night.

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♪ ♪ ♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. ♪ good morning. it is the top of the hour. glad you are with us on "cnn this morning." we begin with breaking news. moments ago sources tell cnn rudy giuliani will plan to surrender today in georgia at the fulton county jail. several of donald trump's co-defendants also have been turning themselves in. the former president is preparing to be arrested and booked tomorrow for the alleged schemes to overturn his election lossth