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♪ ♪ on every occasion i'm telling the truth, that is what rudy giuliani is saying as he's on his way to georgia right now to be arrested, joining the flood of other co-defendants turning themselves in today. donald trump says he will proudly be arrested, those are his words, and now we know he planses to do it in prime time. >> it is debate day in america. republican presidential candidates preparing to battle it out on stage, but the front-runner won't be there and now another candidate may miss the event tonight. why? a basketball injury. i'm sara sidner with the unflappable kate bolduan and john berman all coming in right here on "cnn news central."

♪ ♪ right now, rudy giuliani is on his way to georgia, not on a midnight train, but still. the former trump lawyer is headed first to the fulton county courthouse to formalize his bond agreement. after that, the man once called america's mayor known for taking on the mob as a federal prosecutor will himself head to the county jail to be arrested. giuliani faces 13 state charges for trying to overturn the 2020 election results there, the most of anyone charged in this case alongside trump. he spoke to reporters in new york as he left this morning. >> i don't know if i plead today, but if i do, i plead not guilty and i get photographed. isn't that nice? a mug shot for the man who probably put the worst criminals of the 20th century in jail. you find a prosecutor who has a better record of mine in the last hundred years, i'll bet you don't, or mayor and they're

going to degrade themselves by doing a mug shot of me. like people won't recognize me and they can fingerprint me, and i've been fingerprinted 150 times. this will turn out exactly like the fbi search turned out. they're lying, i'm telling the truth. >> also this morning, two more co-defendants, indicted have surrendered to the jail. former campaign lawyer ray smith and the architect of trump's fake elector plot in the state kenneth chesebro, they turned themselves in. the co-defendants have until noon friday to surrender. nick valencia isse outside the fulton county jail. what more are you learning about giuliani's plans today? >> we know giuliani is on his way here to georgia where he is expected to surrender. the first stop will be to the courthouse right behind me where his team will negotiate a bond agreement with the district attorney and then he can surrender to the fulton county

sheriff's office where he will be fingerprinted and also have his mug shot taken. traveling with him today, he has a small contingent. his spokesman is coming with him and he's expected to travel with be bernie carric. he's been helping giuliani find a lawyer. among his legal debt goes unpaid, he's had a difficult time finding a lawyer to represent him in this case. all me needs is someone with a law license who can sign the bond agreement and it is unclear if this individual is willing to represent him throughout this case. now giuliani could soon get a little more money to pay those legal bills. he is going to have a fund-raiser thrown by former president trump. as cnn reported last week, the former president has agreed to do fund raisers for him after giuliani made an impassioned plea to help him with his legal debt and the first invitation

for his fund raisers is now out. that could help giuliani pay down his debt and still unclear if he can afford a lawyer to help him throughout this entire case. paula, stick with us. nick, talk to me about what you are learning about the booking process for the other co-defendants so far. >> well, kate, it's been a revolving door of activity outside the fulton county jail and we've had multiple defendants turn themselves in the last hour. ken chesebro turned himself in and he's the architect of the fake elector scheme, and chesebro has argued that he's never stepped foot in georgia on behalf of the trump campaign and he did surrender earlier today. joining mihm is smith, who prosecutors allege was in the room when fake electors met in 2020 and he was vocal about spreading misinformation about

voter irregularities and they join david shafer and kathy latham. shafer is the former gop head in georgia and was in the fake elector scheme and he said he acted at the direction of donald trump as well as other federal officials and kathy latham, the former chair of the gop who was a fake elector herself and also instrumental in the alleged scheme to access -- illegally access voting data in coffee county. we've been talking to defense attorneys in fulton county and they say that their clients who have bond much like these defendants in this case are treated much differently. earlier i spoke to jimenez who is a defense attorney in a rico case in atlanta right now and i asked him about the treatment of the defendants in the trump sub version case. >> believe they're getting preferential treatment because like any celebrity and any person they cannot be put in general population.

you want to get them in and out as fast as possible especially if they have a bond. there are inherent dangers by putting someone famous, a celebrity with general population because they may create a risk for others and they may create a riot, somebody might try to attack them. >> pat labott said he will treat everyone equally when it comes to this case. it remains to be seen if that will be applied to the former president when he is expected to surrender tomorrow. kate? >> nick valencia, thank you. thank you both very much. >> the lineup for the first republican debate is in question this morning and that's because the governor doug burr numb had to be taken to the emergency room after playing basketball. he is okay and out of the hospital, but we don't know if he'll join the other serve candidates on the debate stage tonight. one candidate we know will not be there, donald trump will

appear in a pre-taped interview with former fox host tucker carlson. david chalian, no surprise, the timing of donald trump doing an interview with tucker carlson, that's going to take some of the air out of the room, i'm sure. what are you watching for tonight with eight, maybe seven of the candidates? >> yeah, well, as you mentioned, with donald trump not on the stage, sara, i am looking to see how much of a presence he still has in this debate. it is, no doubt, the fox hosts have sort of previewed in some pre-debate interviews questions about donald trump will come up. that seems pretty certain. how much time is spent on it and how much percentage the other candidates see in talking about donald trump versus taking the attacks to joe biden, trying to introduce themselves to the republican electorate and largely tuning in for the first time in this race to make the case why they are the best

positioned to beat joe biden next fall. >> when you look at this group of people, is this something that you see as a moment where you're going to start people fall off that don't do well during this debate because the front-runner is clearly donald trump by 20 points in polling. >> yes. there is no doubt he is the dominant front-runner and if you look at polling especially in early states like iowa and new hampshire, roughly half the party is looking at the alternative for the former president. that is the mission for these seven or eight candidates who will be on stable tonight to begin the work as trying to present themselves as the singular person that can bring that coal igsz of republican primary voters and those open to not being with the former president to their side. that is the opportunity tonight, but there is no doubt that the guy who won't be on the stage, donald trump, is the front-runner in this case. >> i have one more question.

you see one and two and they have the highest polls there next to each other and do you expect there to be a real battle between ron desantis and vivek ramaswamy? >> well, ron desantis' team think it will be a pile on desantis night and one key thing to watch tonight, sara, how does ron desantis handle that heat, being the center of the stage if indeed those attacks are coming and how he handles that will be telling at this moment in his candidacy. >> david chalian, always good to see you there live in milwaukee as you wait for the debate and to give you the great analysis. >> with us now is the wonderful washington bureau chief for "usa today," susan paige who has also moderated the debate between kamala harris and mike pence last time around. in that vein, there were two candidates, separated by plexiglas, i remember. there are eight candidates.

what's the challenge with moderating a debate like this? >> the challenge isn't asking good questions. the challenge is getting a candidate to answer them, to respond to the question asked. you know from all of the interviews you've done that politicians are very skilled at answering the question they wish you had asked as opposed to the one you actually asked and when you're doing a one-on-one interview you can follow up and you can persist and insist. harder to do in a debate especially when you have eight candidates up there on stage, john. >> so you've noted of these eight candidates and assuming doug burgum limps up on to the stage. they have different interests and different goals. success for ron desantis may be different than success for mike pence and vivek ramaswamy. talk about that a bit. >> not to mention chris christie. ron desantis hopes to come out of of this debate as the clear number two. he's been the clear number two

to trump and that's been called into some question especially with the surprising agility of vivek ramaswamy. so i would expect some attention between the two of them and chris christie has a different agenda entirely. he is in this race to call to account donald trump who say he ought to be able to answer for his actions on january 6th and his actions in trying to overturn the election and he'll do it in that new jersey way. the way of a former prosecutor that is very hard to ignore and just ask marco rubio who was the subject of christie's wrath the last time around in the 2016 debates. >> so you got a terrific call on that where you note sort of the five different things to look for or to guide the candidates in this debate and there are a couple i want to talk about. you mentioned the danger of oops. what do you mean? >> well, is there anyone who doesn't remember rick perry

saying oops when he failed to recall the third government agency he had called to dismantle and by the way, the energy department he later led in the trump administration. this is a totally self-inflicted wound and sometimes we only remember one thing from a debate and in that case it was the oops moment. in the vice presidential debate last time around it was the fly that landed on mike pence's head. so you do not want to be the victim of the viral moment from a debate. >> you'd much rather be the fly in that scenario. what are the other things that have come out is that a debate like this, particularly a multi-candidate debate, it's the most powerful jobs fair in the world. what do you mean? >> well, you wonder if some of these candidates really think they can be nominated for president this time around. maybe they do think they can be a cabinet official in a new trump administration or maybe

they can get a big job in politics or maybe they can become a co-host on cnn. so there are a lot of good things that can happen to you if you make a credible, good impression in a presidential race even if you don't end up moving into the white house. >> they'll have to stand for a long time. susan paige, as always, wonderful to talk to you. kate? >> comfortable shoes or not, you can still do it. >> coming up for us, we're keeping a close eye on the fulton county courthouse as the parade of donald trump's defendants turn themselves in and when the president will join them. two of trump's co-defendants are ma making last-minute moves to keep from getting arrested and a look at what sets them apart and whether it will work. we'll be back. with flexible multi-cloud servicices that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovatate and grow.

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remain in fulton county, georgia, until fani willis' deadline for donald trump and co-dfs to surrender. so far six people have done that. as for the rest, we know rudy giuliani is right now on his way. trump says that he will turn himself in tomorrow and mark meadows is kind of hoping he never has to. trump's former white house chief of staff is seeking an emergency court order to avoid being arrested, he wants his case to be placed in the federal courts and he's not the only one. both meadows and ex-doj official jeffrey clark want their cases moved. with us now former assistant deputy attorney general tom dupree. thank you so much for being here. so more trump defendants, you

just heard jeffrey clark there joining meadows in trying to move his case to federal court. will this work? i don't know how quickly the court is going to respond to this? they have only two days left to turn themselves in. >> sure. this is an 11th hour emergency request and my guess is it's unlikely to succeed, if i were advising mark meadows i would say all well and good to make this request and maybe you have a last-minute reprieve and you need to be prepared to surrender and the d.a. has pledged that she will issue a warrant for his arrest on friday afternoon. needless to say as a lawyer you don't want your client to have a warrant and he hopes he get his last-minute ruling from the judge and i wouldn't bank on it and i would be prepared to go to atlanta by the end of the week. >> fani willis has said i feel like i gave them plenty of time, and if they violate this then i'm going to make sure that they

face the consequences of this, but i do want to ask you about the merits of the case that mark meadows has tried to bring forward. does he have a case that could potentially go to the federal courts? >> my sense is he has a colorable argument. i don't think he's ultimately likely to succeed on it. what the federal judge is going to be deciding is whether mark meadows or any of the co-defendants who are trying to get these cases into federal court is whether or not meadows was acting in his capacity as a federal officer when he did what was alleged in the indictment and whether he has a colorable federal defense to make. my sense is these arguments on meadows' part are not frivolous, but i do think there's an uphill battle and there's a good chance that while you are charged here, you exceeded your official duties in trying to tamper with this election. so my sense is it's probably unlikely to succeed, but i understand why he's making the

argument because as i said, it's not a frivolous one. >> i want to turn to tom eastman. he was booked and mug shot taken as will happen to every single person, including the former president, but i do want to ask you about what he said. he defended his actions after the 2020 election. here is his response after he came out of jail. >> they target attorneys for their zealous advocacy on behalf of their clients and something their attorneys are ethically bound to provide and which was attempted here by formally challenging the results of the election through lawful and appropriate means. >> do you still think the election was stolen? >> absolutely. >> absolutely still. no question. >> so he's making the case they're just going after attorneys who are doing their jobs. does that hold any water? >> well, it's a bit of a stretch based on what was alleged in the

indictment. look, everyone understands and agrees that attorneys do have a duty to zealously defend their clients' interest and to pursue whatever remedies are permissible under the law and if you are making that arguments that you know are totally unsupported by the law or you're doing things that goes outside the law such as bringing unproper pressure to bear on state officials, and that does exceed the notion of what an attorney can do even within the sphere of legitimate advocacy. tough argument to make, but i understand why he's doing it and if you're a lawyer in this. >> you are innocent until proven guilty and he's making an argument that he would make in court and it will be interesting how this plays out with all these 19 defendants in this case. thank you very much, tom dupree. always a pleasure. now to you, kate.

>> a republican debate happening in wisconsin and a critical state when it comes to 2024, and what the numbers say on that. the fulton county jail will be busy and rudy giuliani, the co-defendant alongside donald trump. go. gobble gobble. i've seen bigger legs on a turkey! rude. who are you? i'm an investor in a fund that helps advancece innovative sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants. before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com. ♪ with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world is getting smaller because of my sight. but now, i can open up my world with bysmo.

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all right. just in. we have learned that attorney sydney powell who is at the center of a lot of the con tro veshl meetings and strategies of the 2020 election, she has struck a bond agreement for $100,000. she is the latest person to reach that deal. this means she will now report to the jail, go to jail literally, be processed and released. so add sydney powell to that list. that's the legal circus today. in terms of politics, just in, we have a burgum bulletin. it is unclear if north dakota governor doug burgum will take the debate stage tonight. he was injured in a pickup basketball game and had to be taken to the hospital. so with or without burgum, the debate will take place and it will take place in milwaukee which is in wisconsin, which is no coincidence because the republican convention is there, too. also not a coincidence, why? cnn's data reporter harry is with us now.

wisconsin seems important, harry. >> wisconsin is very person, mr. berman. so i want to give you an understanding. wisconsin is the tipping point and what do i mean by that, exactly? okay. say that we shifted the national vote back in 2020 say by .3 percentage points more republican. what would we be looking at at the electoral college vote and we'd be looking at the republican candidate getting 262. the democratic candidate getting 266 and that would mean that wisconsin, whoever won wisconsin would be the winner of the presidential election and this idea of this tipping point state, that is wisconsin being the ultimate arbiter of who wins the election held true in 2020 and it held true in 2016, as well. wisconsin is a very important state for both the republicans and the democrats. >> so goes wisconsin, so goes america. it used to be no republican could win without ohio. now it's no democrat can win without wisconsin. the fact of the matter is the last time the democrat has won the presidency without wisconsin

was 1960. so the idea that republicans think if we can win wisconsin, we can win the press dnsy. the democrats can't win without it. >> it's been going back and forth and back and forth. >> obama won wisconsin by seven. trump won it by a point and then biden won it by a point. so the fact is that whoever has been winning wisconsin has been winning the presidency and that is a big reason why republicans are betting so big. >> it's close in the presidential race and we've seen plenty of evidence it's super close to other races, as well. >> look at the 2020 midterm elections, right? we had a split. governor evers won by three points. look in the u.s. senate, ron johnson winning by a point. wisconsin was split just as the nation was split in 2022 and just as we've seen on the presidential level where wisconsin was split in the last two election cycles. >> and it's not just the debate that's there, the republican convention will be there. >> exactly.

republicans are putting all these eggs in their basket. we will hold the debate in wisconsin and our rnc in wisconsin. will this actually make a difference at the end of the day? sort of. on average, you've seen that republicans have done one point better where the rnc has been held and you might expect given the recent elections and it will not make wisconsin so much more red. i do think the party operatives do think it will be a little something and the democrats will be in milwaukee, they suffered there and it is important-ish to them. wisconsin is so close. >> harry enten, good to see you. >> thank you, boys. joining us the former governor of south carolina mark sanford. got to see you, governor. thanks for coming in. you are in milwaukee, the aforementioned milwaukee, wisconsin, who are you watching most closely this evening?

>> yeah. i look forward to it. i'm watching everyone closely. i just landed and wish i could be over there with you. didn't quite make it, but i'm here. i'm at least in town. >> that's all that matters. what do you think -- there's a big debate of how much do you take on donald trump on the stage in his absence and how much do you turn the focus to anything other than trump though he's obviously front and center in this debate because he is the front-runner far and away. what do you think is the best strategy? >> you better go after him. the nature of a campaign is saying what you believe, but also saying why you're better than the other guy in addressing issues that are important to people's lives and what i haven't heard in almost, you know, with the exception of chris christie and maybe asa hutchinson is a lot of, okay, here's what i believe and here's why trump won't get you there. i think we need to hear more of

that in the debate tonight and if people stand out you've got to run that very, very thin line of not alienating trump's base, but going after trump. you've not heard that people try to be trump light, and if they're trump light why not go with trump? ? chris christie had a pretty direct opinion of who he thinks he's already lost even before they take the stage. let me play what chris christie said last night. >> i think the big loser tomorrow night's debate has been determined and it's donald trump because he didn't have the guts or the respect to show up on that stage and defend his record and advocate for the future of america. >> that is -- that is, you know, a classic chris christie. it is also a good line for a politician who is trying to run against trump and you're no fan of donald trump, but do you think donald trump is losing rid now in not -- loses in not showing up and being on the

debate stage? >> beauty is in the eye of the behold or that one. to a lot of people i do think there is a basic level of respect to the democratic process. it goes with being a part of the debate. i've always had a problem in every one of my races whether i was ahead of that or not and i figured i owed it to the electorate to be a part of the debate so we could have that contest of ideas. i think from a big "d," democratic process, it's a mistake, and as with many things with trump, sort of flies in the face of certain american ideals. as a pure campaign strategy standpoint, i get it. he's got the lead and he doesn't want to fumble the ball to be in the debate stage is to risk fumbling the ball. >> i want to ask you, you were -- in attendance when tim scott launched his presidential

campaign. scott has distinguished himself in the primary by his optimism and by projecting optimism in the more hopeful vision of america than for donald trump, for one and you see that he is really liked and his likability, they're on the rise and they have been high, but after donald trump, governor, do you think likability matters in the republican party and do you think nice will work on the debate stage? >> i can only hope so. i think that there's a thirst in this country for the ronald reagan approach for the caring of ideals and the fact of the matter is they would want a drink with tip o'neal, though they saw the world at, and at the end of the day, it's ail about he just turned down the

other side. our republicans can't stand if that is the way that we advance political ideas. i am hopeful about tim scott, and i think his optimism has brought him thus far. i hope that the american public gets to see a bit of what we've seen in south carolina over the years in term of his youthful optimism and this notion of a bright, shining city on a hill and being an example to others and shining something other than slashes, burns, cuts and insults which has been the way of late. >> let us see. it will be good to hear your opinion of it all after it all goes down tonight. governor, thank you. >> sara? >> interesting conversation, kate. here's something else right now, we are seeing is a stream of co-defendants into the jail. as the friday deadline to surrender gets closer and closer and just a couple of days and an hour left to go, rudy giuliani is now on his way and former

president trump says he will be there tomorrow surrendering and how the sheriff is preparing for these high-from fprofile arrest. that's ahead.. subway's slicing their turkey fresh like on the titan turkey. piled high with double the cheese and more meat. i proffer freshly sliced turkey. it's my vorite mouth guard flavor. i proffer freshly mmmm.d turkey. now availae at subway. the sub, not the mouth guard. automatically responds to snoring. so, no more hiding under your pillow. because this system actually detects snoring then adjusts to help reduce it. for a limited time, save up to $700 on select tempur-pedic adjustable mattress sets.

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everything is covered. there's so much you're missing by not having hearing aids. we'll find you a hearing aid that fits your lifestyle and budget at one of our over fifteen hundred locations. call miracle ear at 1-800-miracle and schedule your free, no obligation hearing evaluation today. new this morning, donald trump put out a statement that said he will proudly be arrested tomorrow in georgia. the county sheriff said the president will be treated just like every other suspect, but due to his high profile, the secret service is working hand in hand with local law

enforcement. just a reminder here, this was the advice that trump gave to police in 2017 about what they should do when they deal with suspects. >> please don't be too nice. all right. that's another matter, obviously. joining us now is retired secret service agent ray moore. he was in charge of atlanta's secret service field office and is a personal friend of the fulton county sheriff. great to see you. thank you so much for being with us. what is the secret service most interested in in this process, in this surrender? >> well, thank you very much for having me. the secret service is most concerned about the security of their protectee, former president donald trump, making sure he gets from point a to point b, safe and secure. >> the security of the protectee which in this case is donald trump. i can't imagine that when any of

these secret service agents signed up for the job and got in the protective detail that they ever thought one of the things they'd try to be arranging is the arrest of a former president, in this case, not just one, but four times. have you thought about what that must be like for them to be in this moment? >> i'm sure that is wearing on them, but they're going to do their job and their job is to build a 360 umbrella, a protective bubble around the protectee anywhere and everywhere he goes. so going to a jail would just be like traveling to a hotel. you're just making sure you crossed all your ts and dotted all your is. >> where do the interests of the secret service and the fulton county sheriff, where do they align and maybe where do they not align perfectly? >> i think they're aligning perfectly. pat labott and steve basal, from

the atlanta field office know each other very well. they belong to metropol so they're not meeting each other for the first time so they know what the issue is and making sure president trump is securely brought to the jail and subsequently processed any hiccups and i'm sure they made a cohesive plan to make that happen. >> one of the things we heard from officials is they want to treat donald trump and the other 18 people here just like any other suspect, but how can you not treat a president differently? in what ways necessarily will he have to be treated differently? >> well, he will be coming into a secure arrival point. there won't be any other prisoners and any other extemporaneous jail employees and he will come into a secure location. if he has to go upstairs, go through a secure elevator, walk down a secure hall, go into a processing room that at some point may have been full of

people where he will be the only person getting processed in that room. >> and in terms of the jail itself, you said a jail is just like any other place that a former president would go. jail has to be fundamentally different. i mean, first of all, you're not going to want that former president inside with the general population, are you? >> no. they're not going to walk him into where the general population is. i believe the general population areas are in close proximity to the processing room will be placed placed on lockdown. he will be in an area that is totally secure and you won't even have extra jail personnel in those hallways. they will make it safe and secure for him because they have to protect former president trump and the secret service agents and they have to make sure the sheriff's department personnel is safe, too. >> ray moore, thank you very much for lending your expertise

today. kate? >> we are standing by to see rudy giuliani arrive in georgia and head to that county jail. the parade of defends now turning themselves in and giuliani already making clear he's not going quietly and deadly wildfires are scorching greece, forcing towns and hospitals to evacuate right now. we'll take you there. that's next. tourists photographing thousandnds of miles of remote coral reefs. that c can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so resesearchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. vil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels.

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right now has also now triggered wildfires. in northern greece we have now learned firefighters discovered the burned bodies of 18 people

in a remote village. several communities have already been evacuated including two hospitals full of patients. emergency officials say more than 21,000 acres have been burned since monday. cnn's elainy giakas has been in all day. what are you seeing? >> root now what i'm seeing is what should be beautiful lands of athens, what should be greenery and instead we're seeing dystopia, a burned forest. the wildfires, kate, have ravaged an important carbon basin for the city of athens. we are in the outskirts of athens. you can see homes that were burned and we witnessed so many homes burned to the ground. many residents defiant, not wanting to leave their livelihoods and their homes and a lot of volunteers and we can see some of them here that are trying to put out what is remaining of the fire to try and

ensure that it doesn't flare up again. there have been 208 fires in the last 48 hours in greece. that's according to the civil defense ministry and there's been criticism from political parties saying that government hasn't done enough. there's been criticism by a lot of the locals, as well, saying there should have been more. what we have witnessed, however is a lot of the firefighters, the planes that have been towering above us doing what they can working tirelessly in what has been a herculean task to try to put out these fires. we have been air hour and a half of light left today. that means in one and a half hours, if the wind picks up again, that is the big risk. the fires are under control right now in some areas and there are three main fronts right now and you can hear the airplanes up ahead of us. we don't know what the wind will do tonight, but people remain optimistic, kate, that this is not going to spread further and already so much damage, so much

heartbreak that we've witnessed today. >> yeah. yeah. it's terrifying to think if this spreads in the middle of the night how terrifying that is. eleni, thank you so much. sara? >> now to something a little more uplifting and turning to history made in india today and a big celebration as their space agency became the fourth in the world to successfully land a spacecraft on the moon. following the u.s., china and the former soviet union, earlier this morning the chandrian-3 landed on the south pole and it was india's second try and after rush's spacecraft didn't make it. it crashed into the moon. narendra modi praised it, saying the success belongs to all of humanity. as they say in india -- which means congratulations in hindi. >> it's remarkable and

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♪ ♪ ♪ two people have surrendered and 13 more to go. for trying to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. trump's take, saying he will proudly be arrested tomorrow. rudy giuliani about to land in atlanta to surrender at the fulton county jail.