david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education.

two cities and two stories with a big impact on politics and our democracy. in atlanta, all eyes are on th giuliani, the guy once called america's mayor is expected to sur ender as we are learning more about former president trump's own plans to turn himself in. >> and in milwaukee gop hopefuls for the presidential nominations face off in the first debate of the '24 campaign, each one with their own goals and one goal that may be out of reach, winning nomination.

and we are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to cnn "news central." >> intense legal battles playing in in atlanta ahead of the first republican primary battle in milwaukee. donald trump is the clear gop front-runner but he won't be at that debate alongside his rival, instead he's hunkered down in new jersey on the eve of his surrender on rico charges in georgia. so far six of the co-defendants have turned themselves in at the fulton county jail. and today one of the architects of the fake electors plot, ken kenneth chesbro is booked.

paula, it's a little bit different than the other defendants so far. giuliani is planning to work out his bond terms and surrender all in one day. >> that's right, brianna. a source tells me he wants to get this all done today before form are president trump comes to town tomorrow. right now we've learned that jul rudy giuliani is huddled in the courthouse behind me. once the bond agreement is in place, then giuliani can surrender. the process will involve fingerprinting and a mug shot, considering a he was one of the most powerful law enforcement officials in this country when he was serving as a u.s. owner

in new york. now he's a criminal defendant in a rico case in georgia. it's unclear if he has an attorney who is going to help him throughout this case. all he needs today is someone with a georgia license who can sign that bond agreement. we were told he has secured that person but we know because of his significant legal debt. he owes millions of dollars in legal fees to various legal entities that have helped him through his other legal problems. so as of right now, brianna, other lawyers are not willing to help him until they get paid. when he came to georgia, he didn't fly into hartsfield, jackson, he flew private, came in on a private jet. it's unclear where he got the money to do that, unclear if it's his money or somebody pro

individu provided that service for him. just last week he said he didn't have money for his legal bills. that's something we're definitely continuing to dig into today, who is willing to help him fly private down to georgia. >> that's certainly not cheap. do you have any more insight into how the process with the former president is going to go tomorrow. >> of course he is truly unlike any of the other defendants. not only as former president, he has secret service protection. logistically it was inherently a little more complicated for him. his lawyers were in fulton county earlier this week to hash out the terms of his bond agreement. that is in place and he'll go through the surrender process. and our colleagues, we have learned that he's going to surrender if the evening. that is after rush hour traffic here in atlanta. anyone who has tried to drive down here in atlanta traffic knows it's quite difficult to get around. to accommodate some of the

logistics, this will happen later tomorrow. he will travel here from bedminister, new jersey, he is expected to surrender if the evening and it's also expected to be a pretty quick appropriate. it's not going to be an overnight. but watching that process, brianna, we expect because the district attorney has said all. defendants in this case will be handled just like anyone else. that would mean fingerprints and a mug shot. in the other three criminal cases that he has faced, they have opted not to do a mug shot as of now. we expect that he will have a mug shot taken. those so far have been released pu publicly but, again, that's our expectation. something we're really watching. this would be the first time we see a mug shot of the former president, not only the first time in his legal issues but the first time in the history of the united states. >> yeah, it will be extraordinary. paula reid, live for us in

fulton county, thank you so much. let's take you across town to the fulton county jail where zachary cohen is. more surrenders today, more arrest reports. walk us through the latest details that you're getting. >> there's been a revolving door here and it started if the predawn hours of the morning when two co-defendants, kathy wisdom and david turned themselves in followed by two lawyers who turned themselves just in the last few hours, ray smith, a local georgia lawyer for the trump campaign and ken chesboro, he's been described as the architect of the alleged scheme and a core part of the broader effort to overturn the election. we expect a steady stream of

more than these defendants to show up and turn themselves at the fulton county jail. obviously rudy giuliani is the biggest name that we know of that we anticipate showing up here today but it's clear these defendants are trying to surrender before the former president arrives in atlanta and is expected to turn himself in. >> all right. we'll be looking for that. cesar zach cohen, thank you so much. >> norm eisen served as judicial counsel during president trump's first impeachment trial. so i want to play his defense and get your reaction. have a listen. >> they're destroying my right it counsel, my right to be a lawyer. it's not accidental they've indicted all his lawyers. never heard of that before in america. >> i blow john eastman's phrase

was zealous advocacy here. a lawyer cannot recommend illegal action to a client. what's the standard of determining what legal advice is unacceptable? when does bad lawyering in effect become illegal or criminal? >> because of the extraordinary power that lawyers have in our system, there are boundaries on how far you can go. so it crosses a line if the advice that you're giving to a cloun client is so nakedly illegal, so far beyond the pale that you become a co-conconspirator. that's what fani will sisis is g here. we have john eastman say this alleged attempted overthrow of the 2020 lelection was a coup i

search of an allegation. the allegation that fani will sis making is that that lune from legitimate legal advice may be aggressive legal advice to recommending criminality that that was crossed by giuliani and the other lawyers and that's why you're seeing so many lawyers who are a part of this case. >> understood. another question is the role of mark meadows in this and was in these meetings, he was on the call. the call to georgia state election officials, trump asking to find votes sufficient to overturn the vote. and i want to get your thoughts on he's cthese comments. have a listen. >> i think it's fair to say mark was a ring leader of much of the events that happened around

january 6th. he was somebody who the president sought to find additional attorneys who gave advice different than without council and it was very central to the events that happened on that day. >> he goes on to question the fact that meadows not named in the federal indictment by the special counsel named here, we know that meadows has attempted a balancing act between what he provides and does not provide. does that give you an under case that he might be cooperating with the special counsel's federal case? >> there are indications that mark meadows must be cooperating to some extent with the federal case, jim. you'll remember in that case trump is charged, unlike fani willis, special counsel jack smith did a narrow, laser-like focus. he wants to get to trial fast. we'll be covering that battle next week. he wants to get to trial at the beginning of 2024.

f fani willis has a slightly different schedule. so meadows was not really mentioned very much. he wasn't one of the six unin unindicted co-conspirators. he's the fourth defendant named in the complaint with eastman and giuliani and trump himself. you know what mark swartz says seemed to be backed by the public record. we have the recording of that january 3rd call after the election was done, counted, recounted, signed, sealed, delivered, trump said just find 11,780 votes. that's not how it works. >> it's not based on someone's regulation of those events. we've heard the tape many times. brianna. >> we are following breaking news out of pittsburgh. police say they're engaged in an extremely active situation, that's what they're calling it, with continued shots -- pardon

me. it's a situation with shots that are continuing to be fired. all of this after an attempted eviction. i want to bring in cnn's brin gingrass. >> allegheny deputies were serving an eviction notice in the garfield area of pittsburgh when that escalated into a shooting. i want to show you the video from an affiliate of our newsroom. [ gunshots being fired ] >> you can hear that rapid

succession of gunfire in that neighborhood, of course alarming that entire neighborhood in a huge police presence still remains there. we actually have learned from an affiliate this there was a neighbor of that house when an eviction notice was being served and was working in their work-from-home office and tried to rush down to their businbasement in their own home. police are telling them to stay in their homes and they would go to them and evacuate them safely. the gun fire has slowed down just a bit. again, a huge law enforcement presence from local, state and federal authorities on the scene. in the meantime, brianna, there are hospitals in that area that have heightened their security while this remains an active situation. brianna. >> pretty dramatic moments.

thank you so much for the latest there. jim? >> as the legal drama continues to unfold in florida, eight candidates are there. might it be seven candidates? >> and a number people are unaccounted for is san diegoly going up. -- sadly going up..

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or if you prefer to just pop in? do you. and if you wanna even tack on a covid-19 vaccine to your flu shot, feel free! and speaking of free? our flu shots are... well... free. really? yes, really. healthier is getting a flu shot on your schedule. cvs. healthier happens together. and we have some breaking news out of fulton county, georgia. i want to go to paula reid who is outside of the courthouse monitoring the very latest for us. what can you tell us? >> well, brianna, giuliani's legal team just arrived here at the fulton county courthouse to a hash out the terms of his release. he has a georgia-based attorney who has just arrived here to

work out these details. he needs to have a georgia-based attorney to sign the bond agreement. i asked mr. tevis if he's going to represent giuliani throughout the case. he said it remains to be seen if he'll be his trial counsel. we also asked if he was getting paid and he did not respond to whether he was getting paid. it unclear if mr. tevis will represent him beyond today. even lawyers that have worked with forever, as long as i've known him are no longer working for him right now as they wait to get paid for their services. last week a lawyer for giuliani said they don't expect him to get any more help with his legal bills, though we do know that former president trump will be hosting a fund-raiser for him in a couple weeks. so more money coming in.

it's possible mr. tevis could end up representing him but they're here, they'll negotiate the bond agreement and then mr. giuliani will surrender to the fulton county sheriff's office. mr. giuliani did not appear to be here. we did not expect him to attend this meeting but he will be of course the one who will have to show up later today or tomorrow at the fulton county sheriff's office. brianna, a source tells me giuliani is keen to get all of this squared away today so he can leave town ahead of former president trump's arrival tomorrow. >> as you mentioned, he's very much in debt because of legal bills and yet he still came in on a private yet. who paid for it, we don't know. still very interesting there. paula, with the latest there from fulton county, we do appreciate it. >> we do have this breaking news just in to cnn. that is the wagner mercenary

chief has been listed among passengers on board a plane that crashed just north of moscow. you may remember that he and his wagner group led a mutiny crew, on his way close to moscow before turning around and now two months later cnn is reported that the chief is listed among those on the passengers of this plane that crashed north of moscow. our fred pleitgen joins us. i don't need to say this is shocking news. prigozhin had enormous power inside russia as head of the wagner military group. tell me what you're hearing about this and the significance. >> reporter: we are in the early stages but this could be huge

news with prigozhin on that passenger list. we are hearing some from russian state media. i want to read you some of what russia media is quoting from the federal russian aviation administration, quote, an investigation has been launched into the crash of the embra aircraft which occurred tonight in a region north of moscow and south of st. petersburg. according to the list of passengers, among them is the sur name of yevgeny prigozhin. we are also hearing possibly ten people in total were on board that air crash, embra air 160, like that owned by prigozhin's company so possibly this could be very big news. the russians are treating this

as very much as possibly yevgeny prigozhin being on that aircraft. we do know that prigozhin was traveling abroad, jim. we do know he was in africa at least a couple of days ago. there was a video he released saying his forces, his wagner forces were now working in africa, that it was very hot there, that he was on the ground there as well claiming those forces were fighting against isis. as you very correctly stated, yevgeny prigozhin started that m mutiny, which failed and was then called back and many were wondering about prigozhin's safety and whether or not there could be pay back from vladimir putin or from the russian security services. again, still very much unclear what exactly is going on, what exactly happened there. certainly this potentially could be very, very big news coming out of russia, jim.

>> you mentioned that video from two days ago. we could play the clip again in which he spoke about wagner's exploits in africa as making, in his words, africa freer. the wagner group has operated really as a private military for the russian president vladimir putin. prigozhin close to the russian president. he was known for a time as putin's chef, though his role much greater than that. he also played a role in the 2016 interference in the u.s. election, leading the group that helped interfere and spread false news here in the u.s. you cannot mention today's events as russia state media reporting he was on the list of passengers that went down. can you not mention those events without mentioning vantevents w months ago when prigozhin unsuccessfully led a coup. >> what is the fate going to be

of prigozhin. there's going to be a lot of questions about what has happened here and about how certainly this is going to maybe affect the dynamics of a war that we are seeing fought in ukraine by russia. i do want to bring in nick paton walsh. this is quite a bomb shell that prigozhin is listed as the passengers on board this plane that has crashed north of moscow. >> reporter: yeah, it's important to remind people, though, that him being on the list passengers doesn't equate to him being there. russian state media is not

evgenief -- evgeny's friend. his name on the list doesn't mean he had to be on the aircraft. we are dealing with the question that so many have asked, how does this man, yevgeny prigozhin, who led that coup, how did he stay alive that long? those that half bothered putin, and he was seen in africa a matter of days ago. so many kremlin watchers were wondering how precisely did he manage to survive? was a deal cut? we knew of a deal that i

essentially turned wagner's troops around on the way to moscow but what happened next was going to be an exceptionally difficult question to answer. we've heard today that one of the russian generals thought to have been close to wagger and prigozhin have suddenly been removed quietly from their post. and so this fate potentially comes at a similar time as that. but it's important to point out to people we know little at this time. this is a moment potentially where people might suggest that yevgeny prigozhin now disappears for a while. we don't know. does he emerge shortly and say he's fine? did he get back from africa very quickly and find himself on this private jet? a lot of questions to be answered here. it's important these were media

channels and the state telling us he was on that private yet. that may not have happened by accident. we're still trying to work out what really happened here but if state messages were clear, there may be a bid to suggest that prigozhin was on that plane. >> no question. it's important to inject that question. we don't know for certain he was on the play. we do know that state media is reporting he was livested as th passengers on board. and we should note the russian president has not hesitated to kill his opponents in a number of ways. he used radiation to killed littman in london and teamed to kill navaly, another one was famously shot quite close to the kremlin. matthew chance has also covered russia extensively, joins us on

the phone. matthew, to that specific question, washington state media are reporting that he was on board. what is the significance of russian state media reporting that he was on this plane? >> well, i mean, first of all it's something that makes it as close as we can possibly get to an official confirmation. and it clearly shows that the authorities are fully aware and fully across these very dramatic developments that we're seeing unfold in russia right now. look, one of the great unanswered questions about the episode of yevgeny prigozhin that he leads in june when they staged that uprising, an attempted coup that got to the outskirts of moscow, one of the questions was how was it that vladimir putin given his record

of dealing ruthlessly with his critics allowed prigozhin to live? how come he allowed him to go into exile in belarus and maintain control over the wagner mercenary group that he runs? i mean, look, i don't want to get into cliche but clearly the leader believes revenge is best served cold. i'm not suggesting he has anything to do with the downing of this aircraft but it's highly suspicion that that aircraft carrying not just prigozhin but other senior officials as well, has now officially crashed. >> there has been a u.s., western intelligence view that

putin emerged stronger from this attempted coup based on the view that he tried and failed and now giving the opportunity to go on a hunt, in effect, to those who are not loyal to him. there is a saying if you take a shot at the king, one best not miss. >> and that's part of the reason why we do not know exactly what has happened here. we know yevgeny prigozhin is on the passenger list of this plane the status quo following that short-lived coup in june seemed very odd. >> and temporary. >> and temporary. it seemed very questionable about how long it was going to hold. i want to bring in david sanger with "the new york times" to talk about this. yevgeny prigozhin to be clear, one of vladimir putin's arguably biggest enemies here recently, david, what do you make of this

and what questions does this reporting raise for you? >> well, brianna, to begin with, we've all got the caution that what we have right now is a name on a list. we don't have a confirmation of the fact that this is on a state-run news organizations and being reported by organizations that are obviously under putin's control certainly suggests that there will be a confirmation that could be following here. the mystery from the start has been that putin met with prigozhin shortly after the uprising. he then went to africa, an area where putin clearly needed the wagner group to be doing his bidding and yet all through all of this we have been hearing from u.s. officials, sometimes publicly, that they would not be

taking out life insurance on prigozhin. jim, you and i were at an aspen security forum a month ago where we're heard secretary of state blinken almost jokingly that he was concerned that moscow had an open windows policy. certainly american official himself been looking for this and the big question is did putin need just a month or two to sort out how he would replace the role that the wagner group played for him and that prigozhin played for him and then move on to both dismantle it as he's been doing and then deal with prigozhin. >> no question. and to your point, enormous influence in the russian military and primary operation right now, which is of course the invasion of ukraine, much of those wagner forces left in recent months, they played a major role in the fighting of

bakhmut. he's called putin's chef because he had some of the biggest military contracts in that country, including feeding the trumps but he ran the i.r.a., when i was so highly involved in the russian disinformation campaign. we're also joined by cedric layton, senior military analyst. what is the effect on russia's military without the wagner group specifically? ukraine? wagner forces were some of the most brutal but also some of the most effective there. >> yeah, that's exactly right, jim. one of the key things about this is this is going to have real impact if it is indeed prigozhin on this plane that crashed north of moscow. that's going to have a profound impact on russia's ability to fight the war in ukraine, remember the center of attention, almost the center of gravity of the russian war effort was for many months for

about ten months centered on bakhmut and the first and the forces that were actually running that show for the russians, that was prigozhin. and he was responsible in his own brutal way for that one bright spot from their point of view in that war effort. well, what's happening now if he has indeed been killed in this play crash and the wagner group is being decimated by all accounts in many respects, that could have a significant impact on the ability of the russians to carry out their war effort. and i think it would potentially have some negative impact, especially on their ability to carry out the operations on the north eastern part of the ukraine and on the eastern front especially. >> i also wonder, colonel, let's look at the big picture of where vladimir putin is in this war. we are seeing these drone strikes in russia.

ukraine doesn't always claim responsibility for them but it app appears ukraine is taking the war to russian soil. you have a general being stood down here just before hours of news where this plane where you have prigozhin on the passenger list has crashed. and even as we are asking questions and it appears a little bit muddy, i wonder sometimes looking at the mounting death toll, wondering if vladimir putin may have some vulnerabilities, if they might send a message to anyone who might be considering internally exploiting those vulnerabilities. >> yeah, i think so, brianna. and one of the key things about this is i think we're seeing potentially a power struggle and historical analogy might be what happened in china with mao and

the guy who was challenging mao's -- >> oh, we lost -- you're back, we lost you for moment there. complete the thought. >> yeah, so basically just like what happened in china, this might be what is happening to prigozhin and his organization, the wagner group, and given that very fact, we're seeing an internal power struggle in russia unfold right now and putin is trying to assert himself is what looks like at the moment. >> nick payton walsh, who remains in ukraine now, looking at the reporting and as you noted, this is russian state media with enormous influence and control by the russian state, it says the legacy was at

a cruising at tolt after -- altitude, which would seem to speak to a sudden loss of the aircraft. are you hearing any reaction where you are in ukraine to this news? >> reporter: still frankly digesting news, one soldier on the front texting saying maybe it is time finally for good champi campaign. this is not a man who stood up to putin. he fought a crime with the top boss and suggested the war should be in a more brutal fashion. there will be no tears shed at all if he has died. we know he's on the list. if he were yevgeny prigozhin

now, he probably would not pop up in public any time soon. we don't know if this plan was shot down or brought down deliberately who was behind that. we've been reporting on ukrainian drones being in russian air space. one question that may not be so hard to answer is the impact on the war on ukraine. i think it's fair most western officials saying they've been reduced and replaced and their role is kind of a van guard, the sort of championed warriors, brutal on the battlefield, they got the most extreme russians for the move they made toward moscow. this doesn't necessarily register a change in the battlefield but it will remind people of the vulnerability that putin faced on that weekend had

one of his closest people essentially ended up, perhaps without realizing it, leading an armed march against the kremlin. he might have thought he was going against the russian military but he kept going before changing his mind and it will of course also remind people, too, that putin has potentially, if indeed it turns out that prigozhin here was somehow killed, possibly chosen the ultimate sanction against someone in his inner circle. all of those are questions to answer but it's a moment of weakness that putin had but one that should be memorable of the chaos surrounding the kremlin's inner circle over the past weeks. >> you're raising such important questions there, about what we know for sure here. we know he was on the manifest.

we know media outlets controlled by the russian state and controlled by vladimir putin are telling us almost as much as prigozhin is dead, that he was on this passenger list and certainly raising that specter and that message being sent is very clear. i want to bring david back into this conversation. when you look at the war here, david, and vladimir putin's calculus and his long-term plan that he wants to keep going, he wants to see what might happen certainly in america moving towards this next election and we've reported this out at cnn and i know you have at the times, that maybe he is going to see, he hopes, american support and that alliance between america and europe be cracked a little bit depending on the outcome of the election, he's really trying to hold things together. and i wonder how you see some of these latest developments including this reporting from russian state media playing into that.

>> well, brianna, you're exactly right. the calculus for putin at this point is to play for time. there are three ways he would win. one is that the ukrainians run out of ammunition. that day has been put off now by the u.s. giving cluster munitions and nato coming up with some more. the second would be a crack among the europeans, who of course have done better than we expected without russian oil and gas at the levels that they had been before. and the third is that president trump or someone with president trump's views that the united states should not be a part of this war decides to pull out. all of that just requires that putin hold the line. and there are many american officials i talked to who believe that putin thinks that's in entirely doable. he maintained a low-level war

between 2014 and the full invasion of ukraine, after he invaded crimea and sustained that at relatively little cost. if he could do the same here, he might well be able to just outlast the united states and the nato allies. now prigozhin was getting at a separate issue, which was whether or not putin's military leaders were prosecuting the war correctly and he was willing to put up with that until it got to the point of an armed uprising. now, even if this was an accident and perhaps it was, it will be hard for people to believe this wasn't putin securing his base. >> if this is the day that prigozhin died, if he was indeed on board this play, it would have taken place two months to the day after he attempted that coup against the russian president, that on june 23rd, cnn covered that extensively.

at the time there were general questions about whether he was carrying out a genuine and credible threat to the russian president's power and in the two months since then there's been an enormous amount of not just speculation but western assessments of not just putin's strength but the future, as you say, david sanger, of prigozhin himself with u.s. officials speculating in public as to, whether, well, in the words of antony blinken, they should stay away from windows or balconies. russian emergency services are saying the embraer aircraft belonging to yevgeny prigozhin came down near a village in a reej to the northwest of moscow. there were ten people on board including three crew members. all on board were killed

according to reports. they say they're conducting search operations and it's reported among those on the passenger list was yevgeny prigozhin. that doesn't mean he was on the plane but he was on the list. and fred pleitgen has spent a lot of time with us discussing the russian leadership. in your experience, fred, when russian state media puts out a report like this, including details about the emergency response, that resumes raugs government involvement in the coverage of that story, doesn't it? >> well, it certainly seems to unde indicate the russian government knows. i think nick pointed out

russia's been very fast with detail. apparently they've already recovered four people from that crash. we have to keep in mind that crash site is north of oblast. a little about two-thirds of the way from moscow to st. petersburg. that's a pretty remote region. it's very difficult to conduct forensic work and sift through debris quickly. so information coming out very fast in all of this. so hard to really see what exactly happened. certainly right now i'm sort of speaking to folks inside russia and some of them are saying that they believe that this plane was taken down. of course not that they'll say who was responsible for taking this plane down but people are saying they don't believe something like this can be or would be an accident, especially

if the plane was at cruising altitude. one of the things that seemed to be transpiring when you look at some of the messages coming out from russian state media but also quite frankly from social media channels affiliated with yevgeny prigozhin, they're saying they can't get in touch with him, aren't able to reach him. and state media coming out with a lot of the details and that certainly seems to indicate that prigozhin might have been on that plane. and one of the other things is there were seven passengers apparently on that plane. were any of yevgeny prigozhin deputies on that plane? and also to a great extent his

associate running the operation and how many of them and his deputies were on that plane and will that mean the organization itself is going to change? one of the things that one of the sort of russians that i was speaking to says, look, right now wagner is completely changing at this point in time. it's going from an organization running those operations in ukraine, those really tough battles in ukraine, to going back to essentially conducting what they called counterterrorism in africa. they're right in the middle of a huge change. what is this going to mean for that and what is this going to mean also for russian influence in africa as well the companies making that transition. just a couple of days ago we saw yevgeny prigozhin on the ground in africa saying his forces were sta starting to take charge with counterterrorism operations. a lot of open questions and a

lot of information coming out surprisingly quickly from russian state media. >> and we should note, to fred's point, we do have new video coming in. this is of the apparent crash scene. you could see the burning wreckage there. this is the apparent crash scene of where the private jet belonging to yevgeny prigozhin, the wagner chief went outside of moscow in russia's tevare region and prigozhin was on the passenger list of that plane. to fred's point, we've witnessed in the weeks since the attempted coup two months ago to today wagner essentially put in its place to somewhere degree. forces removed from ukraine and downsizing of operations and reports of business operations because it was a big money

earner, we should say, for the russian president and some of those being downsized as well related to the progress of yevgeny prigozhin in the russian power structure. >> that's right. when yevgeny prigozhin appears in this very recent video talking about how wagner is going to make africa more free, we should be clear this is also about earning a lot of revenue, which was part of the question about what was putin going to do with the yevgeny prigozhin problem in the wake of that coup because wagner is incredibly important. but i think we should also note the general who suffered incredibly in stature when it came to vadladimir putin, we ha not seen him, who stood down in recent hours. we don't have all of the facts pinned down here but you do have russian state media saying this crash you are looking at, can i

parents to be the crash scene of this jet that prigozhin is on the passenger list, you have a lot of developments at onc are playing out very poorly for enemies, real and perceived or perceived of vladimir putin and that is going to be raising a lot of questions. >> which he has a long history of not hesitating to kill, not just on russian soil but off russian soil. he triedo kill alexa anivalny. that is not a crash that you would expect anyone to survive and russian state media is reporting now they have recovered four bodies from the wreckage. >> of ten. seven passengers, three crew

members. i want to go to general wesley clark. what do you think as you hear of this development? >> hard to believe it's a real accident. you know, maybe they couldn't get prigozhin close enough to a window. maybe he knew the methodology, but eventually if you cross vladimir putin, it seems that your days are numbered. we'll never get to the truth of this. maybe they'll say it's a mechanical failure, but it's a lesson. what it does say, brianna, is also that those who were speculating that rebellion that -- that prigozhin led against putin might have been just a fraud, just an effort to see who was disloyal. maybe it was more than that. maybe it was a double play by putin. we just don't know. he did get sorokin out, he got

15 other russian generals identified as being disloyal. he displayed wagner to belarus, putting more russian forces into belarus and he cleans the slate with the prigozhin crash. it's a remarkable set of intelligence operations as it's unfolded. >> no question. as we look at this, i'd spoken to u.s. officials in the wake of prigozhin's failed coup against putin, who had what you might call a surprising view but that putin, they theorized, would emerge from this stronger in that, one, the coup didn't work and, two, given the opportunity to smoke out any potential ri rivals or those disloyal to him, we dent know fodon't know for c

he was on that jet. he was at least on the passenger list. do you see a stronger putin emerging from all of this? >> i see the end of a potential rival. and we know that putin is very insecure. so if prigozhin did have popularity, there's no threat from prigozhin now. but i think the message to the west is that putin's very much in command. and there were some who were saying that putin, you know, this prigozhin crew, things were shaky, he's still got the levels of power and so this should tell those in the west who are making the assessment saw putin still in charge, he's going to stay in charge and he'll do anything necessary to remain in charge. >> questions of course, general, of how worried putin was in the wake of that coup and certainly so much speculation, including from the ukrainian defense minister and, honestly, countless others about what that coup meant, all of this talk

about does this show that putin is weak. and you can only imagine how that was received by vladimir putin. >> right. but i think that, brianna, if you look at the inside intelligence speculation on this, people would say he engineered perhaps the whole thing. he got rid of prigozhin. he found the disloyals, he redeployed forces out and into belarus. he brought in lukashenko closer and at the end he got rid of prigozhin, a rival. so maybe it was just happenstance, maybe he's just taking advantage of circumstances, but it all has a smell, to me, of a very sophisticated russian intelligence operation. >> again, we just have some new video. this is video we showed you

before. we have another clip of video again purporting to be from the crash scene. there you see it. by the way, if you follow that -- >> this is the new video right here. >> it appears to show the plane summarily falling from the sky. if that is indeed the jet involved here, that does not happen to planes flying level at altitude by accident. >> because the flight data showed, and listen, this is the information, that the embraer legacy registered to prigozhin was at cruises altitude before it stops. >> i did just reach out to a senior european official for reaction. my sense reaching out to officials is they are still assessing what they know here but one of them just said to me when i asked for significance,

revenge is a dish best served cold. we had heard an enormous amount of speculation prior to today's events that prigozhin might not be safe and the secretary of state as david sanger was referencing a few moments ago said that in so many word just last month. so the question about prigozhin's safety and the safety of his group going forward had been ones that u.s. and western officials publicly raised very hard questions about and now we are seeing a crash scene here, which russian state media reporting is a jet that had on its passenger list. our nick paton walsh remains in ukraine. i wonder if you're hearing more reaction to this there. >> yeah, look, no surprise, jim, indeed if this is the case. in fact, even the possibility there might be the case is leaving troops on the front line in a state of giddy joy, frankly, but doesn't distract

from the larger challenges they're facing. it's important to point out how little really we know about the fate apart from himmin being on this list. they may be reacting to the information as best that they had been given it. it may not necessarily mean that we're hearing all the stuff that prigozhin is on that plane. important to point out, too, this is not a moment of putin suddenly looking okay again. he's been through the rockiest period of his entire time in power in the kremlin because of what prigozhin did and the fact some may say that he feels he had to indeed, if this was the case of what we're seeing right now, the fact that he had to move against prigozhin in this way is again possibly a sign of him feeling threatened. we know so little about what happened at this point but it's really important to remind

people how we've seen russia messy, unjoined up and we might be seeing some of that now given we don't know what happened to prigozhin or this crash. catastrophic. it appears to be in the skies. >> just in to cnn, the transponders of a prigozhin linked plane stopped transmission at 6:13 p.m. local time. this according to flight tracking data. cnn we should note has previously reported on this particular plane based on its transponder signal plane, which, according to cnn's reporting has previously been linked to prigozhin's companies and that same plane had been used in the past to ferry prigozhin, which became the headquarters for his attempted coup, that's where the tanks an