intersections so that they have what they call a floating bubble of protection using the outriders. so it looks like a lot, but every vehicle has a purpose. two ambulances this time, one in case there's a medical emergency with the protection of donald trump. the other because when they did this the last time they had a motorcycle officer go down, and they want to have with that many motorcycles a spare ambulance. >> just in terms of the legal battle ahead for the former president, there was a pretty major development that hasn't gotten a lot of coverage, a legal move by one of the 19, chesebro, who's labeled as the creator or person behind the false elector scheme. explain his legal maneuvering and why it has such a big impact on the case. >> so this is a very big deal. there are 19 defendants charged in this case. kenneth chesebro, one of the defendants has demanded his

speedy trial rates. georgia has a strict speedy trial law that essentially says if a defendant wants to be tried quickly, he has the right to be tried what amounts to this case by november of this year, 2023, not 2024. the trial has to start by then. and the d.a. has agreed to this and the judge has agreed to this. now, the question is will any of the other defendants be pulled forward to have a trial that quickly. the d.a. fani willis has said i'm ready to try all 19 of them in late october 2023. the problem, though, is she cannot force people who don't want a speedy trial. she cannot force defendants who do not want -- >> obviously the former president does not want a speedy trial. >> tactically what this is going to do is lead us to a situation where we're going to have at least two speedy trials, maybe more. you get to see the government's whole case. you get to see the witnesses take the stand. you get to see cross-examination, what worked, what didn't. it's a very important move by

kenneth chesebro and effect how this all plays out. >> and donald trump's lawyers came in right behind that saying if this motion is granted we want a severance. >> they want to separate. >> exactly. they said if any other defendants asked for the same, they want to be separated from them as well. >> it's a good question for what's the tactical advantage for kenneth chesebro. it could be he's hoping the d.a. is not ready to try this case. candidly, when i was a prosecutor we were worried about this. i would guess she is ready and maybe he wants a speedy trial. the reason we have speedy trial protections in our constitutions is because people aren't supposed to have cases lingering over them for longer than necessary. or it could be this is a sort of coordinated tactical maneuver where it was basically decided someone go first, be the canary in the coal mine, get out there, force them to do an early trial so the rest of us can sit back and watch. >> i think this is precursor to

what we're going to see play out with all these indicted individuals. they're all going to have different legal strategies. there's only one person to parlay this into running for president. 18 other folks are going to get train wrecked. they're going to lose maybe their life savings, lose their careers. this is horrible situation, and every american watching this almost with no exception would call this the worst day in their life. not only because they're indicted, not only because it's the fourth time in four months they're indicted but 18 of your closest advisers are now going to possibly lose everything because of your selfish behavior not wanting to admit you got smoked by joe biden in an election. he's at this point without a single ounce of proof and yet he's proud in this moment, but everyone around him isn't. >> i would just point out that this is vindication for a lot of people. you know, we're kind of so used to this -- it's almost a ritual now. every other week we have to sit here and kind of watch this

thing, but this is a special case because of the election workers and the people whose lives were destroyed by these lies. these lies had -- these lies were like bombs being dropped on ordinary people, just election workers and ordinary people who were trying to do their job, trying to do their duty, who were being real patriots. and all of a sudden the president of the united states starts saying these people are liars. rudy giuliani, one of the most famous people in the world, starts calling these people crack dealers and everything you could possibly imagine. they'll never get that sense of safety back. they'll never get that sense of belonging, and so prosecutors stood up for those people and said you can't do that. and today -- and by the way, this is a stable system working appropriately. you don't see riots. you don't see troops in the streets. you don't see mass demonstrations like you would in other countries. this is a stable system working appropriately when people in office abuse their power and other branches stand up and say there are lines that should not

be crossed. so there's some vindication here. we shouldn't get too used to it. this is stable system working and i'm proud of it. >> i think that's very well-said, van. any word of caution is for people basically waiting two years for some sort of justice in this process. this may not play out in the election, the variety of different cases. and i think nobody can take to the bank we may know the former gop front-runner is in fact a convicted felon when they have to cast their votes in the election. >> although if there is a speedy trial for kenneth chesebro, it is going to be interesting to see this. i don't know if cameras would be in the courtroom for this. >> yes, and that's actually important. >> to hear what the state's case is against chesebro but essentially the former president. >> exactly. all this evidence will come out. it will be public. we'll be able to see it, and by the way -- >> sorry. this is the inmate number for the former president of the united states. p -- i don't know is that a zero

or an "o." the former president of the united states has an inmate number. and it's p501889. >> i think it's worth pausing we've been through four of these arraignments, indictments our system has held up. there are questions people will say can we, should we be trying a former president in a civilian criminal court? can we sustain that? and now we've been through this four times. i remember the first indictment here in manhattan is there going to be a january 6th-like incident? is there going to be a lone wolf? there's a long way to go, but i think it's a testament to our criminal justice system, the people who protect it, the people who work in jails, courthouses and prisons that we've done this four times and it's gone the way it should. >> we also have to remember there's going to be a defense here. and the defense is as you see people ask to be separated and severed. you know, the defense had planned to be a unified defense which starts off with, one, we were receiving in the campaign

numerous reports of suspicious activity, fraud, and so on. two, we didn't have the resources of the fbi or a large agency to investigate it, so we got people to look at it, we got all these reports in. we had all these suspicions. three, we took this evidence, which wasn't fully baked but it's what we had at the time, and to try and slow down a process we went to courts and dozens of them refused to hear us either on the evidence but mostly on standing. then we went to legislative bodies. so their overarching argument is going to be it doesn't matter if we won or lost, it doesn't matter if we're right or wrong, it doesn't even matter if we lied in a press conference. when it came to using the system, we went to the courts, we went to the legislative bodies, and we believe we did it by the book. now, you have a special prosecutor in washington and a district attorney in fulton county who say there were things that weren't true, they knew they weren't true, this was

actually a calculated fraud, actually a racketeering exercise. but the only -- i've been involved in a million investigations as a reporter and as an investigator and annalist and police departments and the fbi. you never really know the full story until you hear it all in court and both sides put all their evidence out on the table even if you think you do. >> i do want to point out two things can be true at the same time. there are things that are unconventional that trump did but they're not unlawful. there are things that he did that were unlawful. now, it is unconventional for a candidate to take it as far as he did, to play out all these extra innings. the constitutional outs for all these extraine innings papass the vote with the electoral college and state legislatures and all sorts of stuff, it's unconventional. in a hundred years that -- that's not unlawful. it's not unlawful to play in the extra innings. it's unlawful to cheat in the

extra innings, and that's what he did. >> the question here as we watch this play out is what impact is this going to have politically on the primary? because we're unlikely to see a trial before that. maybe we do, maybe we don't, but is it going to have any impact further than tonight and tomorrow? are voters going to rethink -- are primary voters going to rethink their vote when they go to the caucuses in iowa, when they go to polls in new hampshire, when they vote in south carolina? i mean that's to be determined, and, you know, still got a long way to go here. fani willis and others have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he did all these things. the question is what political impact does it have inif trump gets convicted after the convention what happens? there's so many different iterations. or if he's going to the convention, someone mounts a floor fight like ted cruz is going to do in 2016 and we don't think presidents should be doing this, there's going to be a splintered group of the party

that tries to do that. i think that's for republicans last night they asked who would vote for trump, everybody shot their hands up. we'll see if there's more scenes like this in court testimony and others. >> we should also point out the former president may be speak before getting on his plane at the airport. if you remember at the last -- can't remember which one it was, he did speak briefly. we're not going to carry that live. we're going to listen to anything newsworthy that he says and we'll bring that to you. >> keep in mind at this point the former president's poll numbers have gone up with his indictments at least as far as the primary numbers go. georgia is unique because there would likely be cameras in the courtroom, so the public could see the case pliout and actually know what the facts are, what the arguments are. that's likely not the case in any of the two doj investigations, so i think the idea of public sentiment majorly changing primarily hinges around this georgia case. but we don't know the timing on

it. >> i think this continues to make the political math even tougher. i hate to keep picking on the guy because i've done it for a while now, but it creates a herschel walker moment where you create this primary candidate that is an impossible win in the general. there's not a single person that was with donald trump in 2016, turned their nose up to him in 2020, walked away from him that's looking at this video of the fourth indictment, 91 total indictments and saying you know what i was wrong about this guy, i'm going to come back into the fold and vote for him so i'm going to write him a check and support him. so the guy winning today is joe biden. he's probably on the beach out west or somewhere out west eating an ice-cream cone again today, giving a press conference that's eight words long. >> just in terms of the actual cases what is the next -- what's next on the calender? >> well, here you have a september 5th, i think, arraignment where you get all of these people back in the fulton county courthouse and then they start to go through motions.

>> so two big motions. there's a motion we talked about the speedy trial date. how many people are going to go to trial in this october, november 2023 time frame. >> by the way, is that a set date now i mean october -- >> the judge has said, yes, i'll be trying at least kenneth chesebro on october 3, 2023. >> i've got to write this on my calender. >> the other big motion pending right now is two of the defendants currently mark meadows and jeffrey clark are trying to get their case pulled out-of-state court and moved to federal court. they both made this motion i shouldn't have to surrender. the judge predictably denied that. >> you can see they're at the private terminal at the airport already. >> the judge is going to hear mark meadows motion next week on october 28th and jeffrey clark's motion after that. donald trump is very likely sitting back to see how those go, but he's going to make the

same motion, and the gist of the motion here is if you can show the charges relate to your official duties as a federal officer, big question mark whether they can make that showing. but if you can make that showing, then you get your case pulled out-of-state court over into federal court, so there's a lot of moving parts here. >> and to david's point about this whole idea let's say we come up to the convention this coming summer, he gets the nomination or there's some kind of effort for a brokered convention on the floor. i was there in 2015 when ted cruz and folks tried to do that. it is an incredible uphill battle. it's not something you can do easy, something you can do quickly. and someone with sky high approval ratings with the base of the party doing his delegate math now and spent years investing in that, there's virtually no scenario -- >> i'm sure the rest of the team they've got delegate finders and know to a person who's voting for trump on the floor. >> if donald trump would have stood up and said i think this election was rigged, and he

watched us in georgia go through recount after recount and finally got to that moment and said i'll come back to this again, i'll move on. we wouldn't have had january 6th. we wouldn't have completely soiled the republican brand maybe for decades. peoples lives wouldn't have been train wrecked to the point they are. >> and his approval rating. >> by the way, a bunchfous were advising him in those final days go around the country, tout accomplishments and get vaccines in the arms for as many americans as you can, and he'd be in a much better position to win a general election right now. >> just intersecting with the political and legal here. because i get asked this every day i think it's worth stressing none of this will disqualify donald trump when you're indicted. theoretically you can run for president from prison. the other thing i think surprising for people is if you convicted of a felony in this country you can in many states lose your right to vote, lose

your right to sit on a jury, definitely lose your right to have a firearm. but you can run for president. >> getting 91 indictments should disqualify you for running as republican for president. >> in terms of the legal battles he's facing how much of a person's time is even up just dealing with this stuff? >> so a couple things. while you are on trial in a criminal case, you have to physically be there. so whichever trial goes first whether it's in florida, d.c., new york, or georgia, donald trump has to be there. that's in contrast we saw with the civil trial involving e. jean carroll. he was a no show. he has to physically be in the courtroom. >> why does he have to physically be there? >> it's a rule of criminal procedure. he has to present his own defense. >> can somebody waive those rights? >> generally, no.

>> is he willing to waive those rights? >> only in extreme circumstances but i've never seen. listen, that would actually be -- >> the most extreme circumstances. >> i will say, though, if i was his lawyer i would beg him not to do that because you have a jury who's deciding your liberty, and they do not take it as a sign of respect if you don't feel the obligation to at least show up. the other thing is preparing for a criminal trial as a defendant ordinarily is a full-time job. you are working around the clock with your lawyers. you have a constitutional right to assist in your own defense. you are helping your lawyers understand the documents, identify the witnesses. now, it's up to donald trump and his lawyers how much of that they want to do and how they want to split that up, but usually this is all consuming for one case, never mind four. >> i want to point out again going back to the equal justice point, regular peoples lives were destroyed just by the charge -- just by the charge. here we go.

>> we're just going to be monitoring his remarks and bring it to you. >> you can begin to understand how some people they don't have a lot of exposure to the system. other people because of the circumstances of life, they're exposed to it a lot. just when the handcuffs go on, you're going to be out-of-pocket 20, 30, $50,000 that you do not have or you're going to have a public defender who's going to have 30, 50, 1 00 other people o try to help you. you're going to do a gofundme. you're just trying to keep your apartment, just trying to keep your job. innocent or guilty your life is destroyed by the charge. and this is the system that people go up against. and so if people are thinking to themselves, jeez, man, donald trump and his 19 friends are going to go through all this sort of stuff, jake tapper interview somebody that said each one of them is going to spend a million dollars.

>> a million dollars that they don't have. >> that they don't have. if you think it's terrible for those 19 people and donald trump, think about the people right now in that jail where there's apparently lice infestation and bad ventilation, and they don't have the $50,000 or $20,000 to get themselves out. this is why both political parties have come together to try to fix the system. and if you don't -- if you don't like what you're seeing because you're republican and think it's not fair or you love what you're seeing because it's happening to donald trump. when it's happened to ordinary people, this is not the best way to get to the right outcomes we want to for people innocent or guilty. >> van, you and have talked about how donald trump doesn't see things the way people do sometimes. you would think a fourth arraignment, flying down to georgia, getting arrested, getting a mug shot for the first time would be a maybe sobering moment. i make this parallel to when he had covid and went to walter reid and did a drive by. he wanted to wear a super man shirt and wanted to be seen even

though that meant secret service advance teams press his doctors. he saw it as an opportunity. he knew the media was focused on him. that was a win even for bad reasons. again, he chose 7:30. he chose prime time to turn himself in because the spectacle of it all he sees as a win even if it's for something horrible like committing crimes. >> by the way, he commented on the tarmac he continued to make dishonest claims about the election. we're not going to play it. it's not worth hearing. you've heard them all before. not many of the claims just not true. he's back on the plane ready to take off. and on this case in particular if they have to go -- they will be going to trial in october, apparently, at least with chesebro. does -- do you believe that fani willis is ready -- i mean is a prosecutor ready for that? >> you are supposed to always be ready as a prosecutor.

i was trained if a judge said when you want to go to trial i would say tomorrow on all of them, and that's what he shaz said. she took a long time. one of the criticisms, i think va valid criticisms is this took 2 1/2 years for fani willis to investigate and bring the charges. and i have to presume she's competent, and all indications are she's confident she's ready to go in just this scenario. >> one thing i learned a second ago is how much time. i didn't realize he had to be in the courts for all these different hearings. hanging out with all these lawyers i learn so much more. including van, i found out you were a lawyer. how do you campaign? do you have an extra 30 minutes a day? >> to be clear you have to be there for your trial some of the hearings. some of the intermediate hearings just about the evidence and motions, that the defendant can waive, can give up his physical appearance. >> the former president is on the plane waiting to take off. let's go back to kaitlan collins

outside the jail. >> reporter: thanks, anderson. yeah, we've been watching as a few people that were here behind us, the trump supporters, a few protesters has been dying down ever since the former president left. he was here very briefly on the ground. i'm joined again by sara murray but also the former mayor of atlanta keisha lance bottoms. what is it like to see the former president come to the fulton county jail and be arrested, have his mug shot taken, and have this booking sheet? >> this is surreal, and i don't think that there's anybody who loves our democracy that's happy about this. nobody wants to see a former president booked into a jail, but that being said i think it's a testament to the fact that everybody is being treated equally. if you commit a crime in this state, then you will be held accountable. i used to sit as a magistrate judge inside of that jail, and it's all that you expect a county jail to be and more. it's not a pleasant place,

whether you're there for five minutes or months, i'm sure. so it -- it doesn't give me any joy to see the president of the united states booked into -- or former president of the united states booked into the fulton county jail but for the sake of ruby freeman, shaye moss and so many others who have just been subjected to all of that has happened, has transpired. i think this is a testament to the fact that our justice system is fine. >> and of course you're referring to the election workers who were targeted not just by the former president but by so many members of his inner circle at the time, people who have also, you know, walked into the fulton county jail to be booked and arrested. what's that like, do you think, for those election workers who were just doing, you know, their civic duty when they were harassed and bullied and

intimidated and threatened? >> well, i had an opportunity to meet them when they were honored at the white house by president biden, and they really are salt of the earth women, very warm spirits. and they seem to be very humble in watching their testimony, not attention that they wanted at all. i would assume that this has to give them some comfort, but i don't think that there's anything that will erase the pain and trauma that they were subjected to. but i do hope that the fact that the district attorney of this county seems to remember what happened to them and to not push it aside because of who these people are, hopefully that gives them some comfort. >> reporter: you're mayor of this city, you've been a long time resident of this city. when trump posts something like what he did earlier going after -- talking about the crime rate here, talking about -- he said why is there so much murder

in atlanta? why is there so much violent crime? people are afraid to go outside to buy local bread and all these other wild claims essentially saying fani willis, the district attorney, should not be prosecuting him given that. what's your response when you hear something like that? >> fani willis was elected district attorney to do just what she's doing today. and it's not just donald trump and his intererage. there's a popular rapper, young thug, many popular rappers. so she's not discriminating. if she sees that a crime or thinks that a crime has been committed, then she's going to pursue a prosecution. and the thing that people have to remember she's not an administrator. she's not a pencil, paper-pusher. fani willis worked in the district attorney's office as a senior district attorney trying some of the most notorious cases

in our county, so she knows what she's doing. i've worked with fani for many years. as young attorneys we started out together at the kendall law firm. very young attorneys, we worked together as prosecutors in the solicitors office, so she has grown into this role, and she's prepared for this. and at the point that fani sought an indictment i thought that there was struggle for the former president of the united states. >> reporter: why'd you think that? >> i knew she wouldn't pursue an indictment if she didn't think there wasn't something there. >> reporter: how do you think she endures the level of veecveitreal not just from the president who's spoken about her publicly but also his supporters. >> well, fani was built for this. fani was raised primarily by a single father. i've heard her joke that his idea of daughter-daddy time was for her to go work on files and help him with his cases.

and i think that the harder they try and intimidate her, the more they try and intimidate her, i think the more she's going to dig in. she's not going to be easily intimidated. she has dealt with bigger and badder for sure. she prosecutes murderers and rapists and really the worst of those amongst us. so this effort to intimidate her, she's not going to get flustered. when you see her looking very stoic in front of the camera, that's not an act. >> reporter: i should note from watching here this is trump's plane on the tarmac. the busiest airport in the world waiting to take off. it doesn't get the priority it used to when he was air force one, and did clear the tarmac to take off. speaking of fani willis what you're referencing is not just coming from trump and his inner circle but what he said from his people, and we saw supporters

out here earlier who when they saw security lining up were chanting lock her up and chanting her name. >> when i pulled up they thought i was fani and started chanting at me as well. and just walking through the crowd there was a lot of hatred out here. >> reporter: they thought you were fani willis? >> they thought i was fani willis. imagine that. a lot of hatred and really bad energy out here, but, you know, this is -- when you sign up for public service you don't get to pick and choose your good days and your bad days. i have full confidence in sheriff labat. sheriff labat was actually the corrections chief for atlanta when i was mayor, so i know them both very well. i saw sheriff labat just yesterday. he's doing great. you know, there are tough days that come with these jobs. i don't think that anybody wants to be subjected to threats, but that being said it's part of the job. and if we give into that, then

who are we as a country that people don't serve because they fear for their lives? i mean that's a threat to our democracy in and of itself. >> reporter: what do you make of -- of it's not even just the threat level of this. it's the political level aspect of it, too. you know this obviously when you were working at the white house and this is something they're using to their advantage to fund raise off of. trump said i need one more indictment and i'll have the nomination locked up. >> i think it's really unfortunate. as i've served as mayor i worked with governor kemp. i know that didn't always get the attention. when we did get along, that got the attention. but we worked very closely together. i worked closely with many republican leaders, and that's what people elect us to do. they want us to put aside our political differences to be able to get things done. so when i see what's happening right now during this election

cycle in this republican primary season, it concerns me for our democracy quite frankly that we are giving into our -- the worst of who we are in many ways. >> and i wonder if this kind of indictment and sweeping nature of it, obviously it goes beyond people who directly threatened ruby freeman and shaye moss. i wonder if the district attorney is trying to send a broader message about what happens if you try to disenfranchise thousands and thousands of voters and particularly minority voters. >> and i think that's extremely important. we'll have many more elections. there'll been many more close elections. i won the mayors race by less than 1,000 votes. i lost a mayors race before. that's what happens when you run for office. you win some, you lose some. but i do think it's important

that we send a message very loud and clear that you will not stand for this in the state of georgia, that if you try to intimidate election officials, if you try to intimidate people who are working the polls, that there will be a price to pay. >> reporter: i mean before trump boarded the steps to the plane he's on now what he said to reporters, which we didn't air live, but what he said was he's still claiming -- he said he had every right to challenge the election. but it obviously went so much further than that. it wasn't just as even his own attorney general has pointed out trying to file court cases and what thought, he went so much further than that when it came to trying to directly overturn it, not just dispute it. >> you do have a right to challenge in the election. there's a process to challenging an election. but what you don't have a right to do is intimidate poll

workers. you don't have a right to unlawfully influence the secretary of state. there's so many things that they did where they crossed the line. and as attorneys you have a responsibility to advise your client not to do illegal things even if your client doesn't know what they're doing. >> and a lot of people were telling him that. >> absolutely. and it's unfortunate -- i'm an attorney. it's unfortunate to see even the attorneys have gotten caught up in this. you don't have the right to do illegal things on behalf of your client, so i am not celebrating today. there is nothing to be -- nothing to celebrate about today, but it is reassuring to know that no matter who you are, if you break the law, if you try and intimidate people and try and deny people their votes, that their votes be counted,

that there will be a penalty to be paid. >> reporter: and one thing sarah and i have been talking about and reporting on throughout the day is trump's new attorney that he met when he got here just an hour ago. i know you know him and know of him. he's a renowned criminal defense attorney here. given what you know about him, given what you know about fani willis do you shink she has an airtight case here? >> i'll put fani willis up against anybody any day. i wouldn't be surprised if there's not an attempt to negotiate a plea. he's represented a lot of high profile people obviously, but he does not have a flawless record, and fani is a darn good attorney. so if fani is putting this case up, i think that everybody should bring their a-game to the

table. >> reporter: how do you think she's watching all of this? do you think she just goes about her normal business as the city is kind of shutdown for the last few hours waiting for his arrival and having him come here? >> knowing fani willis as i do, she's not losing an ounce of sleepover this. and you have to remember even while all of this is going on, i mention the trial with young thug that's going on. there are other trials happening within the fulton county courthouse. there are other cases that her staff is preparing to try, so business is continuing in the courthouse, but i don't think fani is losing any sleepover this one. >> reporter: i imagine she's also trying to make sure the rest of the codefendants have actually turned themselves in. i mean 18 codefendants -- i've lost track how many and i think there's just a couple stragglers who have not been processed through the jail.

and i think most of them have had these bond agreements in place. >> reporter: one thing they had also is a mug shot. i should note we're waiting -- we do have trump's mug shot we believe. we're waiting on it to be able to post that. but he is just without the doubt of the motorcade and what you're seeing now, he is treated like most other criminal defendants in what happened in the sense of that jail. >> yes and no. most other criminal defendants wouldn't be out that quickly. most defendants would come in and it would take hours to process them. i think it's going to be interesting to watch what happens to harrison ford who showed up without posting a bond today. he very likely will be there at least until tomorrow morning because he will need to have a first appearance hearing. i don't know if he's out or if the district attorney did something to process him out quickly, but under normal circumstances you show up, usually you don't have a bond,

you have to wait overnight in the fulton county jail. you're given a bond the next day after your first appearance hearing. those are the cases or that's what i used to preside over as i would sit out here as a judge. and then hopefully you are granted a bond if you are a defendant and then you are processed out. but it usually takes several hours if not a day or so to get a defendant processed out. >> reporter: and mark meadows is one of -- i mean trump's former chief of staff who surrendered, he's trying to push this. he has a hearing monday trying to get it moved from state court to federal court, and he was essentially arguing i shouldn't have to meet that deadline from tomorrow, they pushed back on that saying fani willis' argument when she responded was i've already given you two weeks as a courtesy saying that's more than what a typical defendant would get. >> and that's accurate. for those who have not turned

themselves in, i don't think they want to wait and find out what's going to happen if they don't turn themselves in. i can tell you what's going to happen. >> reporter: what happens? >> sheriff labat is going to be out looking for a warrant for their arrest. so i think if they want to get in and out of here quickly, and the last thing you want to do as a defendant is get booked into the fulton county jail on a friday. you're there until monday, and jails get really crowded over the weekend. and when i used to represent clients and even when i prosecuted, people would say, please, don't send me over to rice street. it's not somewhere that you necessarily want to be if you don't have to be here. when i would sit here presiding over cases and sometimes i would have to stay in the jail overnight to sign warrants, where literally wanted to shed my clothes when i got in because

it's supposed to be a jail. it's not supposed to be a pleasant place, but it smells like a jail. it looks and feels like a jail. >> reporter: it's striking how people keep mentioning the smell of the jail. >> reporter: i hate to ask this, but can you describe it because it is something every single person we've talked to that's been inside that jail has mentioned the smell. >> i -- conjuring up the smell in my mind is not very pleasant. it is -- it's a stench. it's a combination of stale food and body odor and of course it's a jail so there are not open and even where i worked in the jail i was in a courtroom, a more please want area of the jail. but you can smell it as soon as you walk into the waiting room. >> reporter: what did trump see

when he went in there today? >> what he likely saw if he went in the normal way that clients would go in, you come in and there's a desk at the front. it's been a few years since i've been there, but there's a desk at the front, and then you go through a more secure area behind -- there was like bullet-proof glass there, and that's when you start going through the doors that lock behind you. and so that's likely what he saw if they took him through the waiting area. i'm assuming that the waiting area was clear today if he went through the front door. if he went through the front door, it's usually full of people there waiting on someone to come out or hoping to give information. and then you can go through a series of locked doors into the room where your mug shots are taken. >> reporter: and we know he did take a mug shot. we had that confirmed from the sheriff that you mentioned earlier.

of course the questions that going to come as soon as this plane takes off with the remember foer president onboard is what the time line of this looks like. and we've seen a flurry, a head spinning amount of activity in that today in the sense of one of the codefendants was asking to have a speedy trial. the judge granted that, and they set a date of october 23rd. and is that logistically possible? >> i think it's logistically possible. it's going to be interesting to see the pull-on the resources because as i mention you've got this yfl trial going on -- >> reporter: we did get this mug shot of the former president of the united states, and we're going to show it to our audience now. this is just a striking image to see the former president of the united states who was just booked into the fulton county jail behind us. questions remain even within his team as of this morning whether

or not this photo would actually exist, but there you see it with the mother marks just like every other codefendant that has come before him. i mean the former chief of staff, the former mayor of new york city rudy giuliani, and now to see the mug shot of the former president of the united states. >> yeah. when i look at that, i can't help but wonder if he practiced that pose. that's a very interesting look that he has there. it makes me -- it makes me sad. it makes me sad to see a former president with a mug shot. as i've mentioned earlier, i don't -- i take no joy in seeing him booked into the fulton county jail. it makes me sad that a former president has conducted himself in such a way where it's not one indictment, not two, not three but four different juries

convictions and now to be indicted in that fulton county jail is harassment and sheer torture of two women who did nothing but sign up to go and help people vote in their community. >> reporter: jake, i mean to see that image trump and his campaign once created a mug shot to use for fund-raising material, and now there is actually a mug shot of the former president of the united states. >> yeah, it is a stark and sad image. there it is on the left side of your screen. fulton county jail inmate number we see on the right side of the screen his boeing 757 about the take off from hartsfield-jackson international airport in atlanta, georgia, on its way back to newark, new jersey. dana bash, no doubt the trump campaign and his supporters will try to make sport, to make light

of the image on the left side of your screen. but the truth is the allegations and the conduct described in the indictment whether or not he's found guilty, whether or not you think it is a strong case, the allegations and the conduct are factually accurate. and tragic. and that image is what i think of when i think of those -- that conduct. >> and that is now an image that will be cemented in history. i mean how many images are there of donald trump? he is maybe the most famous person on the planet, but this particular photo with the fulton county -- you can tell me exactly what this is emblazoned on the corner there -- that is going to be iconic and infamous is probably a better way to say it. i think that you said that maybe

they'll make light of it. maybe some people will make light of it, but they are going to appropriate it. they are going to embrace it, and they are going to use it as -- as the ultimate example of his entire campaign, which is they're out to get me. it doesn't make it right. it doesn't make it accurate. it just makes it a very, very potent political tool and weapon that he very much intends to use. >> go ahead. >> we've already seen trump's allies, you know, marjorie taylor greene they're making their own fake mug shots using it as a badge of honor. but i think about the whole pattern of, you know, facts that we're talking about here, which is a former president, officeholder, top officeholder in this country trying to hold onto power and trying to do it by any means necessary doing so in a way that led to multiple

charges in multiple jurisdictions. now that former president is running again and his supporters and treating it as a badge of honor. that's not a good fact pattern for the united states of america, and it is incredibly sad for this country that we have to go down this road. the unfortunate thing is that, you know, other countries go down this road, too. this is just our turn to do it, and we've avoided this particular moment because until trump, there has been a tradition of handing over power when you lose peacefully and just doing it and showing up at the white house with the guy coming after you and shaking hands and sitting down and having a tea. and trump's refusal to do that, that tradition that's not bound in law but as part of our tradition is what has led us to this. >> and we should point out there have been numerous disputed elections in the history of this country, in 1876 between rutherford b. hayes and samuel

tildon, in 2000 between al gore and george w. bush. >> we've never gotten to this point. >> no, that's my point. i'm agreeing with you. ultimately, they have their day in court, they lost, and they can see the defeat. on that note donald trump on the tarmac on his way home this evening -- we did not bring you those comments, but just to tell you one of the things he said and i want to get your reaction jamie gangel. he said it's a very sad day for america and he said we challenged an election, you should be able to challenge an election. and later on hin izcomments he said we did nothing wrong. you should be able to challenge an election. and he has every right to challenge an election and the fact, jamie gangel, as you know he exercised those rights and then he went beyond it. >> he exercised it and he lost over and over again.

61 out of 62 court cases in battleground states. the supreme court declined to hear his case twice. that's a court where he appointed -- >> he had some friends. >> -- a lot of justices. there were three recounts in georgia. and let's just remember his own attorney general bill barr on december 1st said that there was no widespread fraud. chris krebs who was in charge of election security, a republican was fired because he said it was the most secure election ever. white house counsel, republican after republican. i just want to say about his election denial again today this is why former congresswoman liz cheney and many other republicans who have -- there were so many who stood up to him, but those who did have said he remains a clear and present danger. when he says this over and over again, it is a campaign slogan,

but it also could lead to violence. >> and one of the things i think it's important for us to remember is so many of the witnesses in this indictment, in the fulton county, georgia, superior court, not to mention before the january 6th committee and on and on are not just republicans, not just conservative republicans. they are trump supporting conservative republicans like bill barr, like the former white house counsel pat cipollone. you live in georgia i don't think governor kemp or lieutenant governor duncan or secretary of state raffensperger, i don't think there's a chance in hell that if there had been evidence of fraud and otherwise that would have swung the election to donald trump, that they wouldn't have embraced it and stood by donald trump, every single one of them. >> i think you're right, but i do -- we talked about this earlier. you do remember they did change the election laws in 2021 after

the 2020 election under the guise there were some igregularities and things they needed to fix, changing places for drop boxes, changing who could deal with absentee ballots. they tried to capitalize and play on this idea, and now suddenly it appears they've grown a conscience. if you think about this indictment, and i kind of step back sometimes from the case because i do think that lawyers need to think about how to lose and even before the coming motion on monday and the federal judge will hear this. 154 of the 157 overt acts that are alleged in this indictment occurred while he was silting president of the united states. >> sitting president of the united states, 154. >> 154 of 157. >> that's staggering. so everything except for that last document that he sent in september 2021. >> and those are the two counts that occurred after he was president. so when you think about the enormity of the decision this

federal judge has to make about do we move this case, is this a federal executive? clearly he is. do we move it to federal court or let it stay in the state court? if this is not a case that merits transfer i don't know there could be one. >> and he's already facing charges at the federal level on similar conduct. >> let me ask you a question, andy mccabe. you were acting deputy director, you were acting fbi director. you dealt with donald trump when you were a law enforcement official. look at the image on your screen right now. did it ever occur to you that mug shot of donald trump? >> of course not. my interactions with donald trump, my personal interactions were early on in the administration. certainly didn't see into the future where we would end up. but i think the point that you make on the consideration of removal, there's no question that could be a very effective legal strategy. it is an obvious and momentous

thing for any of these similarly situated defendants to do, but i still think it's going to be very hard here. and i totally respect your tallying of the counts, but ultimately to make the case these acts were committed within the scope of their authority, they had to have been authorized under federal law. he had to have been acting under some authorization of federal authority. and the federal law gives the president of the united states zero role in the calculation of state election results, and that's ultimately what they were all doing. >> but it does allow the president of the united states to inquire about federal elections. >> sure. and inquire he did. >> so, when i think about was he the federal executive, i try to ask, at what point is he not the president of the united states?

he can't ride his bicycle and not be president. he can't take a -- if he has to have surgery for a minute, they have to bring somebody in. he's president 100% of every day. >> going back to where you live and where you practice in georgia, i'm also reminded of some of the things we learned during the january 6th hearings and since and other court cases in georgia about what went on in and around the then-president's circle. i mean, the intimidation of those two poll workers, the lies about the things that they were saying that they were stealing votes. never mind this slate of fake electors, which is the subject of several of these counts and questions about whether that move and the work that these characters did, presumably on behalf of the then-president, to

try to steal the georgia election from joe biden, which effectively is the opposite of what donald trump says happened. >> but this will be not about is there even probable cause that the indictment is correct or that there's enough evidence to move forward. this is just, is there a plausible claim that he was serving in his federal capacity? so, it's a low standard, to me. >> joining me now, our senior legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, who is outside the fulton county jail. paula, we just saw donald trump leave after being arrested and booked. when is he next expected back in atlanta, georgia? >> reporter: well, jake, it's going to be a busy next month in this case because the next step here is arraignment. remember, in his federal cases, he was processed and then he had his initial appearance and his arraignment all at once. but here in fulton county, things come in phases. first they negotiated bond.

then he surrendered. then they scheduled this first hearing before the judge. and the district attorney, fani willis, said she would like to do these arraignments the week of september 5th. so, the former president and his 18 codefendants will all have to come back to fulton county for that arraignment. we can also expect, pretty much simultaneously to see legal challenges. mashlg meadows and -- have filed to move their cases to federal court. we expect the former president will likely do the same. rudy giuliani has also suggested on one of his podcasts that he intends to do that. jake, we also have to see these legal teams really solidify. this might be part of why the former president secured his new attorney, because they only have a finite amount of time after that arraignment to file certain challenges to that indictment. someone, for example, rudy giuliani, needs to figure out who is going to represent him throughout this trial. of course the lawyer who helped with his bond has been

non-committal about handling this entire case. so, it's going to be a really busy next month for this fulton county case. >> and the trial -- or the hearing, rather, on whether or not this should be heard in a federal court, this should be transferred from georgia to a federal court, that's monday. is that right? >> reporter: that's exactly right. for the mark meadows case, on monday -- that's the next thing that's really going to happen -- is a hearing for mark meadows and this question of whether his case should be removed to federal court. he is confident that if his fulton county prosecution gets removed to federal court that he can get dismissed. he argues he is protected under a law that protects certain federal officials from state level prosecutions. but yesterday the district attorney, fani willis, she weighed in and she fought back at that. she said, look, what you were doing has nothing to do with your role as chief of staff. instead, that was political activity. and jake, a real focus on monday is going to be that infamous

call with former president trump and the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. that appears to be what the district attorney really wants to focus on, based on the witnesses she might call. that's going to be the crux of her case to try to keep this in state court. but, again, he's not the only one who is trying to make this argument. jeffrey clark also has a hearing scheduled for this and others, including trump and giuliani, have all said they're going to try this too. >> just game it out for us. let's imagine that the judge on monday and the future, any other judges who want this to be heard in federal court instead of on the state level, let's say that the judge disagrees with them. does this get appealed all the way up to the u.s. supreme court? is that where this is headed ultimately? >> it's certainly possible. i mean, these are unique questions. i would expect someone, particularly like mark meadows, who has one of the best legal teams in this entire group of people, and he also appears to have the resources to file a lot

of legal challenges, he would likely appeal if he didn't succeed. whether it would make it to the supreme court, is it an issue of first impression, it's always possible? we've seen a lot of issues around the former president make their way close to the supreme court, if not make it before the bench. but the other thing is if he wins, right? potentially the u.s. attorney could be the same district attorney he's facing now. they could waive the d.a. fani willis, it would still be a case under state law, but it would be another jury pull. that's another thing the former president is angling for. fulton county is predominantly a democratic district. they believe even if they can't get the case dismissed at the federal level, if they could get the broader jury pool, that could be more favorable for the former president or any of his codefendants. but it's a very unique situation, and it's pretty fascinating to see how the legal system works and how everybody's trying to game it out here. but, again, eventually this case will find its way before a jury, likely either a jury from fulton

county or possible a federal jury. >> a federal jury. thank you so much, paula. and back with my team here. a federal jury in georgia, what does that mean? is that geographically different? obviously people feel as though the jury will be more politically diverse instead of as democratic as fulton county is. >> and that's probably the biggest upside for trump is that he does get to draw a jury from a larger part of the state. if the case stays the in fulton county, he'll draw his jurors from a county that went predominantly for biden. and he's probably not seen well there and he's thinking his chances are not very good. >> although there will be jury selection, voir dire, et cetera. >> we still have court process. we still have voir dire. you can still question about who you want to put on the jury. if it's transferred to federal court, his jury pool will be drawn from multiple counties around the north georgia area.

typically they would draw that jury from the atlanta division, metro atlanta counties in jor r jo. sometimes in cases where you don't think you'll get enough people from just that division, you may draw from the entire district, which would obviously mean even from the north georgia area where marjorie taylor greene is from and other people who might be favorable to trump. so, it expands even further if they need to do it. it wouldn't be unprecedented. they drew a larger jury in the arbery case in south georgia because they needed to make sure they had enough people who didn't have a preconceived idea about the case. that's what this is going to be difficult here. this jury selection could go on for some time, as they find some panel of 12 plus some alternates who have no feelings one way or the other about the former president. that becomes, i think, a difficulty. you can just look at the sort of public polling even on that. >> yeah. do you think this transferring

it to federal jurisdiction, drawing from wider parts of the state geographically means that ultimately the odds donald trump will at least have one juror -- because that's all you need, one juror -- who will vote to acquit? >> i mean, certainly the numbers are in his favor, or more in his favor if he gets the case removed to federal court, for all the reasons michael has said. i believe it's also important to emphasize, if he gets into federal court, he's halfway to getting this thing dismissed on supremacy clause grounds. so, he's got to get into federal court in order to make that next argument, which will be, you should dismiss this case because i was acting within the scope of my federal authority. and, you know, that's another whole argument. but that would be, i'm sure, any of these defendants' optimal result. >> right. although it's also possible that

you get 12 jurors who are objective and hear the facts and they all voted for donald trump twice and they still, ultimately, when presented with the facts, do their duty and vote the way they think is correct and not just according to whether or not they like donald trump. >> that's right. >> it's true. but, i mean, i think the fear for any prosecutor and any lawyer talking to a jury is, has somebody not been candid in jury selection and is sort of getting into the jury almost as a plant under the idea that maybe they're a patriot in some way? so, that's the concern. and you try to use the voir dire process to weed people like that out, but you don't always do it. and it just takes one. so, you can have 11 people who reach a guilty verdict or guilty decision in 20 minutes and that one juror can say, i'm never going to do it and suddenly he's found not guilty. >> yeah. i would suspect in this day of social media footprints and intense jury selection, organizations, that would be very difficult to do.

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