democratic deadline strontium. i recently gained out here the

looming conflict between donald trump's trial schedules and the election calendar. there is no time in the next 15 months that he will not be needed both in court defending against foreign indictments and on the campaign trail competing for the nomination. it remains to be seen whether trump can continue to a stand or benefit from his legal perils. a different type of scheduling trouble looms on the democratic timeline. consider this, despite the record about which democrats are proud, joe biden remains unpopular. hill latest gallup approval stands at just 42%. even many democrats don't want him to run for re-election. a recent poll found that 75% of americans don't want him to run again. that is higher than trump, of whom 69% said the same thing at the end of july a poll found that 75% of democratic leaning voters want the party to nominate someone other than biden. why? largely, it is age. the ap poll found that 77% of

adults think biden is too old to run. when asked what words come to mind when you think of joe biden, 26% said, old, outdated, aging or elderly. another 15% said slow, confused or bumbling. mitch mcconnell did not help the cause when the 81-year-old had his second apparent freeze in a month. that and dying -- a dianne feinstein will have impact. if biden stays in the race, he will need to convince the country that despite the concerns that people have about him now at age 80, he is still the best choice for the nation when he is finishing at 86. if the opponent is donald trump, that might work. what is next spring the rate of the prosecution finally causes a republican reshuffling. he would be replaced but democrats will still have biden as their standardbearer against the wishes of three quarters of

their own voters. the collapse of the hunter biden plea agreement is another consideration. hunter may be indicted for multiple felonies related to guns, china, ukraine and texas. where he was engaged in dealings while traveling with his father at the time he was vice president. this inquiry is no longer separable from the president. that is distracting and damaging as well. nevertheless, the present has announced his re-election. and he's open headquarters in wilmington. the questions persist as to whether he is in it. even among democrats, almost all are smoking -- speaking off the record. the conversations keep happening. white whispers on the sidelines of events, text, email and phone calls as top democrats and donors reach out to those seen as possible replacement candidates. in conversations to several of the people involved, despite

what he has said, despite the campaign he has announced, joe biden won't actually be running for re-election. i feel like time is already running out with the lack of a more robust campaign activity that they want to see his assignment his heart is not in it. part of the problem is that his vice president is not a ready- made solution. kamala harris standing's is worse than biden's. her approval is about 40%. she was tasked with voting rights and dealing with border security issues but has little to show for her either. many have not forgotten that she left the 2020 nomination race before a vote was cast having distinguish herself in an attempt to take down a biden over busing. biden's rationale was that he was needed to defeat trump. that rationale is weak. people want someone else. biden is not polling ahead of trump. in a poll published today in the wall street journal, trump

is at 40 and biden is up 39. it confirms what other major polls have found that they are neck and neck within the margin of error. he has gone from being the one democrat able to beat trump to being the one democrat who might not be able to be trump. if biden is to stand down, how does he do it and when? in 2016 biden gave thought to running but having just lost his son to the past, obama did not endorse hillary clinton until june, two days after she clinched the nomination. when biden did run in 2020, obama sat it out at first. offering advice to all the candidates but not endorsing his vice president of eight years. remember, biden went on to place fourth in iowa, fifth in new hampshire, second to bernie sanders in nevada. he saved his candidacy in late february with a win in south carolina due to the support of james clayburgh. obama did not endorse his

former vp until april, a week after bernie sanders had dropped out and after sanders had endorsed biden. biden said to bristle about the late embrace, which might make them more inclined to be supportive sooner of his own vice president. then for democrats a large part of his legacy is that he defeated donald trump. he prevented eight straight years of trump. if he decides not to run, you will want to leave his party in the hands of whoever has the best chance to beat trump, should trump be the 2024 gop nominee. gavin newsom seems to be doing what is necessary to keep his prospects alive, going so far to degree to debate ron desantis. we will see if that comes to pass. surely, he is not the only other democrat besides rfk jr. that can compete for the nomination. the longer joe biden is announced candidate, the better it is for, harris that any

change comes late. that way, the potential field is frozen. she is better placed to be a quick stand-in. if biden wants to foster competition, he will have to remain neutral with harris in 2024 as obama was with him in 2020. he will need to stand down with enough time for others to raise money and get on primary and caucus ballots. that clock is ticking. amazingly, the first filing deadline for primary candidates is october 16, six weeks away. it is nevada. a key state that biden won by fewer than 34,000 votes back. hillary clinton won by only 27,000. another swing state, michigan has a december 8 deadline. many states have yet to finalize their filing deadlines including the three early states of south carolina, iowa, and new hampshire. by years end, at least 13 more will have locked in their slates, including 10 with primaries on super tuesday,

march the 5th. unless rfk jr. suddenly surges, that does not leave a lot of room for a new candidate to launch a campaign, assemble a team and make a real run for it. but the calendar makes clear is that time is running out for a biden alternative, other than kamala harris. as donald trump tries to figure out how he can be in two places, a courtroom and a campaign trail, president biden needs to make sure he is in this. i want to know what you think. go to my website and vote on today's poll question. will joe biden be the democratic nominee in 2024? joining me now to discuss is ron brownstein, cnn editor of the atlantic where he has just published this piece, why biden just can't shake trump in the polls. ron, always great to see you. you argue that there are two things hindering biden that

don't enable him to distance from trump. what are those two things? >> reporter: good morning, michael. interesting analysis. i think there are four core factors that are shaking the environment that have change the world since trump and biden face each other the first time. the two big factors that are hurting biden, as you said, the concern about his age. three quarters of americans and he's too old to do the job for a second term. and concerns about inflation. i talked to stanley greenberg, a pollster since the 80s. he has pulled for parties all over the world. he points out that the destabilizing effect of inflation does last longer in the minds and the finances in the average voters then political leaders often recognize. there are two factors on the other side that are weakening trump. one of those is abortion, the

majority support indicating legal abortion. the second is insurrection. the belief that the majority that his actions after 2020 were illegal and unconstitutional. when you take agent inflation on one side and abortion and insurrection on the other side, what you see right now is that some is astounding. >> with regard to biden, here's what you wrote in part, the other big change we can democrats is that biden is older as many as three quarter of americans say they think biden is too old to serve effectively and fewer express a concern about trump though he is only three years younger. images of biden walking stiffly are intermingling his sentences, which is prone to do. many in a state of anxiety fearful the president is one step away from political disaster. are you convinced that he will

be the democratic nominee? >> reporter: look, we don't know what is going on in his mind. i think the vast majority of democrats believe that biden is going to be the nominee and have to figure out a way to make this work with him on the top of the ticket. first of all, biden has been a more effective legislative president that almost anyone. he looks at those accomplishments and says, i still have my fastball. second, him and the people around him are much more worried than you suggested that a fight six exceed would tear apart the democratic party, precisely as it needs to go up against what virtually all democrats and many non-democrats with a threat to democracy. third, people don't -- hand over power as president very often. who was the last person to not

run for re-election? i think it would be calvin coolidge. there are lots of reasons why he should consider stepping off of the stage but there is also some powerful ones for why he would stay in them. i think most democrats believe it will be the latter and they have to figure out a way to make it work. if you look at the 2022 results, despite the problems that biden faces, they were all present there in 2022 as well. in the states that will likely decide the winner of next year, arizona, michigan, wisconsin among them. abortion and democracy did outweigh inflation and concerns about biden in those races. >> ron, i fully recognize that many are watching will not appreciate my analysis. they will not appreciate the commentary. my effort to game out what might happen and i have spent the last several weeks talking about trump and all of his legal impediments.

what if donald trump's nomination collapses under the weight of the indictments? the argument that joe biden is the one who did and can be trump goes away. if there is another republican nominee, democrats could find themselves locked in with the president of the united states. >> reporter: there is a lot of concern about biden running again with a different republican, especially one who is younger. democrats thought desantis was a tougher candidate to be ben trump. many of them are not so sure right now that desantis is actually tougher than trump. biden's vulnerabilities are real. there is clearly a majority of the country -- in his first term, especially with the trio of economic related bills. that is real. democrats are frustrated and a little unnerved by how sustained that resistance has proven in polls, despite all of

the troubles going for trump. you know, if you kind of consider the overall landscape against anyone other than trump, it could be difficult but trump looks like a commanding favor right now. >> quick final comment to the republican race. we showed that wall street journal poll that shows trump maintaining his grasp on the gop. is that reflection of an inherent to him or a reflection on the field that we all saw on the debate stage 2 weeks ago? >> i think it is more the former than the latter. i think what trump has done it successfully convince them that the majority of republican electric to view the indictments the way he wants them to see them as an attack on him. his message from the beginning has been that i am be wall that will protect you

against all of the forces in society that he alleges and many republicans believe are trying to marginalize. he has basically made this just the latest manifestation of that. supporting him in the primary becomes a way to stand up to the liberal establishment and all of these other forces. it is worth noting that -- >> i think you're right. two there are a majority of voters who say they do not want donald trump to be president again if he is convicted of a crime. you have two candidates who are defined more by their weaknesses and strengths heading into this potential rematch. >> ron, your piece is terrific. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. social media reaction. catherine, what do we have? i'm sure people are laden with my opening commentary. shut up, why are you spreading fear of biden and harris. biden is in the 2024 race. i

expect the result of the poll question that people say, yes, joe biden will be the nominee in 2024. you know what my eye is on? what is the percentage of those who believe he won't? i don't look until the end. the second responds i have is to say, everything i offered today was fact-based. there was no hyperbole whatsoever. very little opinion. i was looking at polling data any nomination schedule and saying, maybe this will change. i do want to know what you think. go to my website and answer the poll question, will joe biden be the democratic nominee in 2024. up ahead, the statue of harriet tubman has toured 19 states to much acclaim. would your response to be affected by the fact that the sculptor who made it was white? that has caused a fracas here in philadelphia and i will explain. there is a new covid variant and a new rise in cases. health officials asked us to

where mass again. would people listen? who better to ask than dr. anthony fauci, he used to work for this guy? >> when i am back in the white house i'll use every available authority to cut funding to school, college or airline or public transportation system that opposes a mask mandate or a vaccccine mandate. al ice creau e that will never mess with y your stomach. lalactaid ice cream. ♪ ♪ start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist commended vitamin and supplement brand. was so the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com

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there is an uptick in covid cases, a new variant, some three and half years since the pandemic was first identified. if public health officials feel it necessary to ask america to massive again how many would comply? the website this morning at the headline, not again, mask up in new york. lead story at cbs news this morning, covid hospitalizations on the rise as u.s. enters labor day weekend. the past several weeks have seen reports from all over the country of a rise in cases and the cdc reports covid-19 hospital admissions are up more than 19% in the most recent week . and if you school districts this has led to cancel classes

and sporting events. a handful of companies have responded to outbreaks on their premises by reinstating mask mandates, among them several hospital systems including kaiser permanente in northern california. morris brown college and alanna, dillard university in louisiana, lions gate film studio in santa monica. so far, so far, those have been the few exceptions. this graph shows how the rise and hospitalizations compares to past surges, less than half the numbers of this time last year and still lower than they have been up for about 80% of the pandemic. if things get worse, and maybe get hard to reverse to caution. according to gallup, public confidence in the healthcare system has dropped from 44% to 34%. donald trump took to truth social to make the issue political, accusing the latest outbreak to be hype designed to impact the 2024 election. >> to every covid tyrant that

wants to take away our freedom, hear these words, we will not comply. don't even think about it. we will not shut down our schools. we will not accept your lockdowns. we will not abide by your masks mandates. we will not tolerate your vaccine mandates. >> joined me now to doubt -- to discuss this is anthony fauci. nice to have you back. how worried are you that people will not follow advice to where masks, if -- big f -- if we get to that? >> that is a very good question. we are starting to see a surge of cases, as you mentioned about an 18 or 19% increase and hospitalizations. charlie going in the wrong direction with what looks like a late summer and into the fall surge. how about it will get, we don't know. this is a very unpredictable virus. it has shown us that over the

last 3 1/2 years. i am concerned that people will not abide by recommendations. we are not talking about mandates or forcing anybody but when you have a situation where the volume of cases in society gets to a reasonably high level, particularly vulnerable, those who are elderly and with underlying conditions, are going to be more susceptible and vulnerable, if they do get infected to get severe disease leading to hospitalization. we know that. that is a fact. i would hope that if, in fact, we get to the point where the volume of cases is such an organizations like the cdc recommend -- the cdc does not mandate anything. it recommends that people wear masks, i hope they would abide by the recommendation and take into account the risks of themselves and to their families. we are not talking about forcing anybody to do anything.

>> totally understood. there is a perception out there by many, how many, i don't know -- that they don't work. and that the data concludes that they did not work in the first go around. respond to that on masks . >> that is not so. when you're talking about a population level that the data is less strong than knowing that if you look on a situation as an individual protecting themselves or protecting them from spreading it, there is no doubt that masks work. different studies give different percentages of advantage of wearing it but there is no doubt that the weight of the study -- and there has been many -- indicate the benefit of wearing a mask. >> i will refer to one of them. i have heard about it from a number of radio callers. bret stephens and the times talked about cochran. put that on the screen. most rigorous and comprehensive analysis of studies conducted

on the accuracy of masks for reducing the spread of illness, including 19, was published last month. it said tom jefferson, the lead author, they were unambiguous. there was no evidence that they , masks, make any difference. he told the journalist, full stop. hold on, what about the n-95. what about cloth ? it makes no difference, he says. they oppose mask mandates. they were convinced by nonrandomized studies, flawed observational studies. how do we get be on that finding of that particular review? >> there other studies that show at an individual level. we about the affect on the epidemic or the pandemic, as a whole, the data is less strong. we talk about it about an individual basis of someone protecting themselves or protecting themselves from

spreading it to others, there is no doubt that there are many studies that show there is an advantage. when you look at the broad population level like the cochran study, the data is less firm with regards to the effect on the overall pandemic grid were not talking about that. were talking about individuals affect on their own safety. that is a bit different than the broad population level. >> dr. fauci, look back and reflect and tell me, how would you do differently with regard to kids ? i am of the opinion that we aired on the side -- this is probably in artfully said -- of physical health, not emotional health. putting our kids within parameters with the pandemic was not in their best interest. do you share that perception? if not, why? >> are you referring to the closing of schools and the negative impact it has on development? >> yes. i am. >> when we were dealing,

michael, with the tsunami that we saw earlier on the pandemic -- when things had to be shut down because you're having hospitals that were overcrowded and freezer trucks in front of possibles in you dork -- in new york, that was a dramatic situation that needed something immediately to stop it. the question is how long should a shutdown have been? i think there is a bearing degrees of differences in matt. i agree that if you look back at the things i have said, we should try as best as possible to keep the schools opened and the schools that are close to get them open safely by any number of means, including increasing the ventilation in schools. making sure the people around the children are properly vaccinated. i agree. there was a point where we had to shut down. the duration of the shutdown is

something that is questionable. i think people, rather appropriately, should be examining whether or not think should have been shut down. the initial shutting down was something that really had to have been done we were in desperate situations and. >> people are saying there is no way i would mask up again. a final thought, if it comes to it, might a better pro se, let us protect the most vulnerable and allow others to lead their normal lives. final word is yours. >> mandating i don't think will happen. there may be local mandates and people keep thinking that the federal government is going to mandate that you wear a mask. that will not happen. there may be individual institutions, organizations that will say, if you want to come to work, you have got to wear a mask.

nothing the federal government can do about that if they want to do it locally. i think people need to realize it is unlikely that you will see a mandate, for example, on the cdc. they have no authority to mandate anything with regard to masks. they can only recommend it people can do what they want to do based on their own evaluation of their own risk. >> dr. fauci, thank you for being here. >> good to be with you. thank you. >> social media reaction from the world of youtube. what to be happy? folks who raid, inquire or watch a fox won't mask or where the vaccine. i don't think it will be limited to those who are in the silo. i have seen too much data from different outlets suggesting that there is a belief among many that questioned the efficacy. as i point out the cochran study to dr. bacci. there are a lot of studies out there that you can find one with a different conclusion. don't want to be alarmist either.

i think we made it clear that there is reason for concern, for the reasons i identified. no one is saying that we are on the verge of there being a mask mandates. what if it takes a turn? given the polarization the country they and the sentiments people have about the handling of the initial phase of the pandemic, would they go back and comply? i doubt that they would. social media, what we got? no? okay. guys, you are confusing me. i will read the prompter. i want to remind you. go to my website and vote on the poll question. will joe biden be the democratic nominee in 2024? stay classy. up ahead, this statue of harriet tubman drew crowds when it toured across america the past few years. so much that philadelphia decided it wanted to commission the sculptor to create a permanent version work in the

city. controversy ensued because the sculptor, wesley wofford, happens to be white. he will be here to tell us the story next. [clock alarm] ♪ morning. ♪ ♪ life after student debt is within reach. refi at sofi.com. you could save thousands and get to your goals faster. sofi. get your money right.

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question, when creating art that represents specifically culture or ethnic groups, should artist for the same groups be given preference? questions of cultural appropriation keep popping up of late and all kinds of circumstances, tv, music, fashion and movies. the issues has cared into the world of public art, specifically a sculpture here in philadelphia back in 2017, wesley wofford, who is white, was commissioned by a private collector to create a sculpture of abolitionist heroin, harriet tubman. when he posted pictures

of the statue called, a journey to freedom, many asked if they could see it in person. since the terms of his commission did not allow a reproduction he created and artist proof of it and starting in february of 2020 went on the road with a tumor of 20 american cities. it was in philadelphia from 2022 in honor of the 200th birthday of tubman. the city asked to buy it. the contract with the owner met it cannot be sold. philadelphia commission wofford to the tune of about $500,000 to make a new work featuring her to stand in front of city hall. then the complaints began. artists and other committee members argued that the city should have used a public selection process rather than awarding a commission. part of the outrage was because he is a white guy. kelly lee, the executive director of the office of arts and culture, who is african american said this in a statement, philadelphia would not be commissioning this statue if not for the public's positive

response to wofford's temporary statue. it would be inappropriate for the city to bring in a different artist to re-create the artistic expression of wesley wofford. members of tubman's maternal family released this statement, we believe mr. wofford is an excellent choice for grading the statue of harriet tubman. a call to artist may have provided for an opportunity for an artist of color but support wesley wofford receiving the commission. ultimately, the city backtracked to the issued an open call for submissions and then received 50 applications and recently announced these five designs, all created by black artists. the public was asked to vote on its preference with that ball ending last night. the public feedback will be weighed in the final decision- making in october by committee composed of members of tubman's family, historians, artists, and others.

wesley wofford decided not to compete. he joins me now. he is on the board of directors of the national sculpture society. he has won both an emmy and oscar for his work of the field in prosthetic makeup. wesley, thank you for being here. i should underscore you did not ask for this controversy. you bought a traveling expedition to philadelphia. the city came to you and one to acquire it. is that correct? >> correct. michael, thanks for having me on and thanks for allowing this dialogue to happen. it is very important nuanced dialogue. >> what happened? what was the basis of the opposition or complaint that you most often heard? >> there was a lot of underscore. there was a lot of support for me, in general, and the work to happen. there is always sort of two sides to these conversations. i think both sides are valid. it is conversations that we need to have. of the sea, it came at the

elephant in the room with the color of the skin and my gender. and also the process, how these public works got acquired and it should be a call to artists. >> i get the idea that people say there should have been a bid . the way all came to pass with a traveling exhibition and the city not in the market for harriet tubman statue but falling in love with your work, that kind of explains why it happened the way it happened did the troubling aspect is the role of race. frankly, by that logic, the hit hamilton could not be on broadway right now with a black cast representing the work of our historical white figures. where would that end? right? >> right. i think it is twofold. that is one way to add to our public collection that is severely lacking in

underrepresented groups. 50,000 objects in the country and 10% of them represent underrepresented stories. call to artists is one way to get there. and other ways are direct commissions of artists or purchases of existing works. there are many artists that don't compete for call to artists because that is a different way to create art. there is that element of it. also, the element to what is an artist's role in society? are artists -- do we only talk about ourselves or do we talk about one another? different artist approach that differently. if a black community comes to me and says, we want to use your skill set to tell our story, of course, i'm going to embrace that proposition.

>> it is a sensitive subject and you don't strike me as a guy looking to be a culture warrior. it occurs to me they would love you on another network and would want to use you for their own purposes. what is it you most want to say? >> i think that, for me, over the past year, i was removed from that commission a year ago. it is only coming back up because the five artists presented their designs. i think it is really important for us to think about the role of artists in the world. i think that artists create connections, we are the connective tissue that are trying to pull us together as a society. so the empathy bridges that artists across, referencing different cultures, genders and races, that is our job. i think the task ahead of us, regarding underrepresentation in public spaces, is so huge that every living, working

artist needs to be working on it. it is not that only, you know, black artists should be sculpting black subjects. i think that we all need to get there together. there is too much work ahead of us. >> amen. wesley wofford, i encourage people to go online and look at your amazing work. thank you for being here to tell your story. >> thank you very much for having me, michael. i appreciate it. your best and worst social media comments and we'll give you the final result of today's poll question. go to my website. register for the free daily newsletter while you are there and tell me this, will joe biden be the democratic nominee in 2024? for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today. works hard at hohour one and twice as hard when you take it again the next day. so betty can be the... barcode beat conductor.

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no, what you have is michael having spent the last two weeks gaming out here on cnn, as i do every day on radio. how is her public nomination going to end? four times indicted. when the trial get going, if they get going before the nomination is concluded, can donald trump really withstand the crash of all of that negative attention? is the republican support dissipating? is that appropriate to do? i think i would say it was. today, the lesson was -- how about the democrat side of the aisle? joe biden approval stand that 42%. 75% of the country say, they don't want him to run for re- election, which is higher than 69% who say the same thing about donald trump. does that not worked a little explanation? maybe a little conjecture as to what happens if item really does not see it.?

is it kamala harris' or is there competition? i stand by that commentary and all the data that i quoted on it when making my presentation. what is next? anymore, catherine? joseph abrams, if item had a running mate who is perceived to be more prepared as a commander-in-chief, his age would be less of a factor. joseph, to your point, but concerned expressed about his age -- again, i quoted all the data, only shine an additional spotlight on his number two. every four years we talk about the importance of the vice president and the people go in and they vote only the top of the ticket. last cycle, they do not vote about joe biden. it was a referendum of trump and trump failed. this cycle will be different and i think there will be much more attention on both running mate because of the age. biden is 80 and trumpet 77. one more, can i do a whole hour this one weekend? art is a creation says bill snyder. does not matter who makes it. this type of controversy only breeds more racism. i can say i am embarrassed

about this story. i am so grateful that the sculptor was willing to come on the program. he did not go looking for this. he is commissioned to do a statue, puts it online. was like, that is awesome. he puts together a touring exhibition of his artist proof. when he gets to philly bay say, can we have this? we will displayed on the city hall apron. they are making a deal and now the word gets out and people are like, wait a minute, this needs to be publicly bid it. i kind of get that in the normal set of circumstances. but then the criticism was, he is a white guy. he cannot make a harry and -- harriet tubman statue. it does none of it any good. still to come, the final results of this week's poll question, you can still go vote at smerconish.com. will joe biden be the democrat? my eye is on the number of no votes. i think the yes votes will win, but how many are actually voting no? we're about to find out.

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we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. there's the result of this week's poll question, at smerconish.com, we'll keep it open, you can keep voting. three quarters say, yeah, of course joe biden's going to be the democratic nominee in 2024, but of nearly 30,000 voices, i find it significant that about a quarter, 26% say, no, when all is said and done, we howon't be. as of today, what's most likely? most likely it's a rematch of 2020 and it's biden and it's trump. that's what my head tells me, but emotionally another part of me says -- it says this.

there are people that we've never heard of, there are events we can never imagine that are still to play themselves out in the course of the next 15 months. truth is, we have no idea what's about to unfold unless you can look around corners. so, i wouldn't be surprised if when all were said and done it's none of the above. it's not a prediction, but it wouldn't surprise me. enjoy labor day weekend. of delightful carrots, and the rich touch of bok choy. knorr taste combos. it's not fast food, but it's soooo good. ♪ ♪

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