much of the fanfare is thanks to what serena and her sister have done for the sport for more than two decades. >> they also encourage d a whol generation of youth to play the game more. it's not just women, but also men. >> reporter: not lost on fans at the stadium named for the only black man to named singles titles and the australian open are the number of players of color vadvancing at this year's open. >> sports have been opened up to more people. usga has made a concerted effort to expand the presence of tennis without different communities. it's working. >> reporter: it's clearly working for this 9-year-old player. >> do you hope to be some day like those you see up here? >> yeah, my dad always says that when we were up there and everybody was cheering for coco,

one day that's going to be me. "cnn this morning" continues right now. >> u.s. secretary of state antony blinken is in kyiv right now meeting with ukrainian officials. >> this is going to be very much about taking a fresh message back to washington, but also to the united nations. as they seek to hold support together for this in this 19 months. >> special counsel jack myth is accusing the president of making statements in the january 6th case. >> we don't have the opportunity to watch the judge. whether this case should be broken up into smaller cases. >> and you have mark meadows trying to get over to federal court. fani willis took a big bite here. now she has to deal with it. >> the longest sentence yet for january 6th insurrectionists. 22 years, that's how long the former proud boys leader will be

in prison. it's not the first time we have heard defendants suggest that trump is behind what they did that day. >> we can tell you it wasn't even here that day. the importance of this sentence was one of deterrence. >> the community is on high alert as the search expands now. >> this is a dangerous game of tactical hide and seek. >> the moment of, oh, my god, this guy is down there. >> senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is expected to talk to his caucus behind closed doors about his health. >> what you're seeing is something very specific. >> who is ready replace him and step in? >> i hope he can. good morning, everyone. we're so glad you're with us this morning. d.c. is back. >> the senate is back. the fall has started. the school year has started. we're keeping an eye on international news because the secretary of state made a surprise visit to kyiv. we're going to keep you updated on that as the morning

continues. we want to start with a new development this morning in the federal election interference case against former president trump. special counsel jack smith says trump's daily extra dishl statements are threat tong taint the jury pool. >> this allegation is part of a court fight that remains largely under seal, meaning the public doesn't get to see it, that the special counsel has been sparring with trump's team to get on the public docket. the judge ordering both sides to submit their arguments next week. what is this all about? elie honig is at the table with us this morning. let's begin here. i think your take on this is that prosecutors need to tread carefully here. why? >> there's competing interests. on the one hand, any defendant does have the right to criticize his prosecutors and his prosecution, even the judge. you have broad first amendment rights to stand up for yourself. you don't have to demure if you have been charged. on the other hand, there's a line that can be crossed. the most serious line is when you get into the realm of

potentially intimidating witnesses or victims. there's a specific bale term he can't do that. there's another line when you say things that are so inflammatory you might affect the jury pool. they are just regular civilians. it looks like doj is trying to find a way to do something to reign trump in without i object infringing on his first amendment rights. >> you can tell if this makes no sense. is this because they feel like they have to in this moment or because they want something done? >> it's a good question. i think they feel like they can't do nothing. it's really hard to sit there daily, these statements in an ordinary case, some of these statements would cause prosecutors to go to a judge and say we need to up the bail conditions or lock this person up. i do not believe that's going to happen here. i think any notion of trump being locked up on a bail

violation is just a fantasy. and to be clear, a normal person might be, but this is not a normal person. this is a person running for the presidency. >> trump wants this in d.c. did you want jack smith have to be careful that he could later argue, look, you have made this jury pool unfair by doing this and now you have to move it. >> if prosecutor rst going to argue to a judge he's tainting the jury pool, trump's team is going to say that's why we have jury selection. it will weed out people who are undually prejudiced. let's fast forward a couple weeks. donald trump is going to say i need to get out of d.c. 95% of the people in washington voted against me. >> now you didn't let me say what i want to those people. >> this jury pool hate mess. jack smith is going to say that's why we have jury selection. we weed out people who are

unduelly influenced. that's a bigger fight about where the case goes. i would be careful about arguing. he's prejudicing the jury pool. jack smith is going to want to make that argument. >> jury selection is going to be fascinate ing. i don't know anyone that doesn't have an opinion. >> i think the jury pool here in new york city, we thought that was hard. picking one for donald trump is going -- everyone has heard of him and has opinions. our system can do it. >> that's why it exists. elie honig, thank you so much. proud boys leader er enriqu pena nieto he was ban ned from entering washington. sara murray joins with us more. so significant here. >> it really is. the judge handing down the

longest sentence we have seen for any defendant related to the attack on the u.s. capitol on january 6th trying to send a message about the importance of the peaceful transfer of power in this country and sent a strong signal this is a der ternt for anyone who may think about doing something like this in the future. more than two decades behind bars for the man u.s. district judge called the ultimate leader behind the january 6th attack on the capitol. in tuesday's hearing, kelly said former proud boys chairman enrique tar row was motivated by zeal. before being sentenced, tarrio apologized for the pain and suffering that was caused. quote, i'm not a political zealot. inflict ing harm or changing th election was not my goal.

tarrio also adding, i held myself morally above others, and this trial has shown me how wrong i was. tarrio was not in d.c. on january 6th. having bye-bye arrested days before and ordered by a judge to leave the city for burning a black lives matter banner and bringing high-capacity rifle magazines into the district the previous month. but the judge said even though tarrio wasn't there, proud boys leader had an outsized impact on the events of the day. during the months-long trial, prosecutors showed tar row was readying for a revolution and helped create a command structure within the proud boys in the run-up to the insur insurrec insurrection. make no mistake, we did this, he said. during tuesday's sentencing hearing, the prosecutor called tarrio the leader of this experience, that targeted our entire system of government. tarrio's attorney promising an appeal .

t>> tarrio's attorney said the sentence caught them off guard. even though he faces the longest sentence of any of the def defendants, it's well below what prosecutors asked for. they asked the judge to put tarrio behind bars for 33 years. >> sara murray, thank you. right now, we're going to show you live pictures in kyiv, where secretary of state antony blinken is there on a surprise visit to the country. he's set to meet with volodymyr zelenskyy at any moment now. this trip comes at a critical moment in the war. ukraine's counteroffensive is struggling to breakthrough. president biden is pushing for more funding. the american people are less than convinced. the kremlin weighed in on this visit. >> vladimir putin's spokesman told reporters that blinken's visit will not change the course of the war, and the u.s. is

intent on keeping the war going into the last ukrainian. as we continue to watch the live pictures and look at the images, kiley atwood joins us. a surprise trip, his third since the war broke out. and a critical phase. >> yeah, a really critical phase. the war has been going on now for more than a year. and the secretary of state already making remarks this morning talking about continuing the u.s. commitment to the war in ukraine. it's a really pivotal moment, a strategic moment for the secretary to be on the ground for a number of reasons. americans are headed back to school, headed back to work after the summer getting caught up on the news. having the secretary of state in ukraine sends a very clear signal that the biden administration is still prioritizing this war. it's also at a moment when there's going to be a funding fight again in congress with the president putting forth $24

billion in proposed new funding for this war to congress. there has been some criticism continued in congress about new funding. and it also comes as the u.n. general assembly is later this month in new york. as you know, that's when world leaders are going to convene. according to a senior state department official, this is an opportunity for the secretary of state to meet with ukrainians ahead of that pivotal meeting in new york, and to really align as to what the message is going to be. when it comes to the counteroffensive, that has been a grinding, troublesome moment of breakthrough for the ukrainians in recent weeks in the south and the east. but the secretary of state wants to be on the ground there to assess what the ukrainians are actually seeing. what they are hearing, what their plans are in the coming weeks and monthsen opt the counteroffensive. and we should also note he's expected to announce about $1

billion in new u.s. support for ukraine humanitarian support, economic support, military support, all of these things while he's on the ground there, he will be meeting with president zelenskyy, that should be coming up soon. he will be headed to lay wreaths at a cemetery for fallen ukrainian soldiers. so there's a number of thing he's going to be doing there, meeting with u.s. diplomats, who have been on the ground and really learning what those on the ground are seeing and what the future of this war could look like. >> kiley atwood, we're going to be keeping an eye on these pictures. that meeting between secretary of state antony blinken and volodymyr zelenskyy, you're looking at top state department officials. you saw the ukrainian ambassador to the u.s. who is back in kyiv for this meeting. >> a close eye on that. also the first televised hearing of former president trump will take place today. it's going to happen in georgia.

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visit purple.com or a store near you. we're still keep ing an eye on kyiv where secretary of state antony blinken hz made a surprise visit. he will be meeting shortly with volodymyr zelenskyy. >> also happening today, the first televised hearing in the case against donald trump and 18 co-defendants. this is in the georgia state election subversion case. it's the first televised proceeding for any of trump's criminal cases. it has to do with the critical issue of that busy calendar. a d.a. pushing for all defendants to begin facing trial october 23rd. former president trump is opposing that speedy timeline. many of the defendants want to break up the case. with us at the table is jennifer

rogers, elie honig, john avlon and erroll louis. jennifer, does this mean everything is going to be on tv? >> pretty much. there's some things that are going to side bar, but everything that is public that would happen in the courtroom in full view of people who could walk in off the street will be televised, which is terrific for all of us. we can see the wheels of justice turning. >> what do we see today? >> the judge has to get everybody together and set some dates. so he's got to impose some order on the skchedule sorks they are going to want these two defendants early in october where they are going. i think she's going to ask for one trial date and then start to thin that herd. the low-hanging fruit will plead out. some cooperators will plead out and they'll want to end up with 6 to 8 defendants.

>> i want to go between the legal and political because they are so intertwined as we have all discussed. the poll of voters do not think the charges against trump are relaevant to his fitness to be president which he's the leading republican contender by 1 to 60 points. etspecially when you line it up it's going to be on tv. people are going to be watching. what's your read? >> i think you'll start to see some of those numbers change. because we saw this with the january 6th committee hearings. you start watching it and going through the fd that's allowed or not allowed and ongoing discussion and conversation on national news about what has been happening piece by piece. i think people will be a little more informed about it. the flow through the to the polls and people's decision making. at the same time, what you're going to see is a number of

people who have decided i want to be with donald trump. i don't really care about these legal charges. however, that same poll, the latest cnn poll shows they think it's very serious if the gets convicted. will he be able to actually serve. and then it starts to really start to matter. so you can believe he's innocent and the charges are bs. you can decide you're going to support him say in the primary. but if he gets down the road towards conviction, people start to think about it. >> there's an interesting legal and political overlap here, which is let's say we have two sets of trials. we're looking at the early trial and the later trial. a big advantage for trump. want to go second, want to see all the evidence come out early. you can scout it and see what worked and what didn't. if there's a televised trial of chesebro or sidney powell, it will be collateral damage. meaning he's taking shots from those witnesses that may resinate.

>> i think that's exactly right. this poll is fascinating. one of the things it reenforces is you have 37 to 42% of republicans who are hard core donald trump supporters no matter what. that's still a lot of folks moved to a road. we have 20% who aren't going to support him no matter what and you have folks that are persuadable. it shows there's an emerging top tier. including tim scott, nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy and desantis. the other thing that's striking is trump's support is under the rubric of i support his po policies. and i do think as that starts to collide with basic values, peaceful transfer of power, that could have a further negative effect. >> thank you. >> i want to switch topics here. enrique tar tarrio.

the judge yesterday in the sentencing of tarrio said you were the ultimate leader. you have some thoughts on this. >> yes, i don't think tarrio is the ultimate leader. he was a leader of one of militia groups, the proud boys. the fact the leader of the oath keepers have been convicted of seditious conspiracy is incredibly significant historically. that's a very tough charge to prove. but the ultimate leader according to the people who were told to stand back and standby, the people they thought they were doing this for and the expectation of the case, it was donald trump. and i think the judge had a lot of clarity in his comment around the sentencing yesterday, which was very tough. but the ultimate leader, nobody was storming the capitol for tarrio. >> i was just glancing back. just thinking about a republican president in that moment in this country at that time at this

juxtaposition. it's very striking. >> the decision by jack smith, people refer this as the january 6th trial. it's not. it's about everything leading up it and after it. but to that point, why not? >> i think one of the great misconceptions about this case at large is that it was all one nice, organized conspiracy. and i think this was the error in merrick garland's initial approach. he said we're going to start at the bottom and work our way up. what we have here is multiple conspiracies separate from one another, but with a similar goal. tar row never conspired with donald trump. they never met or spoke or had any indirect connection. donald trump was run ning his on conspiracy to try to steal the election. most of which happened before the actual date of january 6th. then you have these other people clearly acting on his behalf at his urging.

he lit the spark and stormed the capitol. and that was sort of the way i viewed it from the start. the way a that it's been charged has played that out. when the judge says tarrio was the ultimate leader, that means of the oath keepers, of the people who physically stormed the capitol. but trump was still the spiritual leader. >> stand back and standby. >> that's what i mean. >> circling back to the point you think there already defendants of trump's that plead out. michael cohen, the former president and one of his lawyers and fixer said something interesting last night. here he was. >> my recommendation for them would be speak now because as soon as the guy next to you or the woman next to you starts speaking and spilling the beans, your information is not as important or significant.

so the person really who starts to speak first is the one that will get the benefit. >> so that's true here like it's always true, but not as much because, first of all, we were talking about this earlier. there's not a lot of cooperation that they need here or that they are going to get to be honest. some of these people might want to cooperate. i think they will use a couple of thesm. but it's not like they are going to have i was in the room with donald trump. we lost this election, how are we going to steal it, that's not the kind of evidence you're going to find. they want to get people out of this case. can't do all these trials. they will thin that herd and get a couple cooperators and they are going to plead people out cheap to a lesser offense. >> they used to move the indictments. where you go, we better hope one of these guys flips. i agree. i don't think that's the case here. i think cooperation will be

lovely, but i don't think they need it. >> we had a few cooperators. tougher guys than this. >> that sounds interesting. she was a good chief. >> we will be carrying that hearing live here on cnn starting at 1:00 p.m. it's been nearly a week since convicted murderer made his escape from prison. we're learning details about the strategy law enforcement are using to try to find him. also the disgraced lawyer convicted of murdering his wife and his son now his defense says they have new evidence and they want a new trial.

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this is a dangerous game of tactical hide and seek. this is a dangerous, dangerous man. he has nothing to lose. i can tell you this. his desperateness will not outlast the resolve of our law enforcement officers here. >> you were listening to the deputy for the u.s. marshal service highlighting how dangerous and difficult the search for an escaped murderer in eastern pennsylvania has become. he added that the goal right now is to, stress him out of hiding.

two school districts are still closed today and 200 law enforcement officers are aist issing in the search for the manhunt that's entering its seventh day. danny freeman is outside the prison. you have been covering this throughout the course of the last week. some developments yesterday, what's your sense of where things stand this morning? >> reporter: well, frankly, we're still trying to read some of the tea leaves to see where police are devoting most of their attention as this manhunt continues into its seventh day. we have reason to believe this maybe expanding, but i'll get to that in a poemt. i want to go back for a second and explain how he got to this point. yesterday, police told us that after they had already established a two-mile radius south of the prison, it turns out that danelo cavalcante was able to slip that perimeter. he was caught on trail cameras in longwood guardens, a popular sprawling, large tourist

attraction. it's a little further south of that two-mile radius. and the picture was eerie. we saw it yesterday. he was pictured shirtless with a duffel bag and a backpack. police believe that means he's been skavageing and trying to perhaps burglarize homes or gather supplies from cars in order to extend him being on the run. but then the perimeter extended south. i want to describe what we have been seeing this morning. at this same time yesterday, we drove around longwood gardens and that area. there was a pennsylvania police trooper on every corner. their lights were on, there was troopers standing outside with long guns. today we drove around that same area, and there weren't any troopers in that specific area. instead, we have seen troopers towards chads ford searching along baltimore pike and brandywine creek. that manhunt has expanded.

and all of this is extremely stressful for neighbors as we enter day seven. take a listen to what one had to say just yesterday. >> everyone in this area just hasn't slept. i can't imagine the people and what they went through now that he's gotten out. we have a sense of how they were feeling for the last three days. it's tiring and exhausting and your nerves are on edge and you second guess everything. >> reporter: nerves on edge, tiring, exhausting, police are still asking these residents who have been asked of so much during the manhunt to stay vigilant, make sure you're locking your doors because this man, this dangerous man is still on the loose. >> a week in, danny freeman, thank you. to south carolina now. there's a new push for a new trial for alec murdaugh, the

disgraced attorney accused of killing his wife and son. his attorneys have filed a motion with the court of appealing alleging jury tampering. randi kaye o'is following all of this. walk us through the new defenses. >> good morning. the defense is arguing that jury tampering denied their client a fair trial. as you said at the ernt of it all is this clerk. here's some of the allegations that the defense is alleging. they say that she instructed jurors not to be fooled by murdaugh's testimony. also she allegedly had frequent conversations, private conversations with the jury foreperson in the bathroom in the jury room that she asked jurors their opinions about the guilt or innocence of alec murdaugh and she came up with this fake facebook post in order to get a juror removed, who she believed was going to vote not guilty. that juror was removed on the last day of the trial.

the defense is alleging she pressured the jurors to colt up with a quick verdict saying they were going to have to take a hotel and couldn't take smoking breaks. the defense did hold a brief conference yesterday. here's how they explain ed alec murdaugh's reaction to these allegations. >> when i shared with him the affidavits, he's a lawyer, he was astonished. he was shaking. he was in disbelief. >> reporter: so the question is why would a clerk do this. the defense is saying she did it all to get a book sold. she wrote this book about the trial and was trying to profit from it. if there was a not guilty verdict, she wouldn't have been able to secure a book deal. we have reached out to her. no response yet. >> what does the defense say they have here? >> the defense is saying a this they have at least three sworn affidavits. one from a juror who was dismissed. they are also using excerpts

from her own book published this summer. >> what does the attorney general have to say about it? >> reporter: the attorney general in south carolina has ten days to file a reply. we did reach out to his office. we got a statement from the attorney general saying we are currently reviewing the defense's latest motion, and we will respond through the legal process at the appropriate time. and we also reached out to the south carolina law enforcement division, who was critical in gathering evidence against alec murdaugh. they said they did not have any response at this time. it's worth notie ing that even he does get a conviction, he is facing dozens of charges related to financial crimes, many of which he admitted to when he was on the stand testifying. so he will stil spend the refs of husband life in bars. >> randi kaye, thank you. secretary of state antony blinken is on a surprise trip to

ukraine. still waiting meetings right now between blinken and toppen ukrainian officials, but polls show support for aid is waning. we're going to ask chris murphy about how congress can continue to authorize more funding despite shrinking support. stay with us. you u know you are retired right? am i? yaya! the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is nowow only $999. plus free home delivery when you adadd an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number.

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we're continuing to follow the breaking news. you see saecretary of state antony blinken taking a seat at a surprise visit to kyiv. he's set to meet with volodymyr zelenskyy and top ukrainian officials. it comes a the a critical moment

in the war. joining us now is senator chris murphy of connecticut. he serves on the senate foreign relations committee. senator, appreciate your time. the timing here of the visit, blinken has gone two or three times up to this point, but it seems notable there's an administration request to congress for more funding. the counteroffensive is grinding on. do you think that's the intent here to send a message both publicly at home and internationally? >> well, i think it's really important for secretary blinken to be directly engaged. these visits are often intelligence gathering efforts, but no doubt, this is part of the administration's attempt to convince republicans not to abandon ukraine at a moment where, i would argue, this offensive is no longer grinding, but actually breaking through. reports in the last four days

suggest that the first time since the offensive began the ukrainians are making significant progress. this would be the worst possible time for congress to get involved in a debate as to whether or not we're going to stick with the ukrainian people. ukraine has a lot of needs. the continued military aid, we have the global artillery shortage and we have to be creative to get them more help, but i think blinken is going to be announcing today economic and humanitarian assistance because we still need to help the ukrainian people survive the government stay afloat. our aid needs to be nimble to help them win this war. no doubt, part of this trip is going to be an attempt to explain why this aid is so important and why we can't doubt as to whether we're committed here. >> i think it was really notable to hear your senate calling on

the other side of the aisle lindsey graham, who went to ukraine in august, say if you think he's been critical of the afghanistan withdrawal, if you think get ting out of afghanistn was a mistake. pulling a plug on ukraine and allowing putin to get away with this is afghanistan on steroids. i think he's talking to republicans and republicans in the house, specifically the american public who are a majority no longer favor more aid toen ukraine. do you think he's right? >> i think there's a pretty significant difference between our interests in afghanistan and our interests in ukraine, but i do agree with lindsey that the united states has a direct u.s. national security interest in making sure that russia doesn't move on kyiv. let's just be honest. if the united states was to pull out, russia would have the ability to conquer all of ukraine. and the message that that would send across the world, in particular to china, is absolutely devastating. the united states has benefitted

from the broad post world war ii order where big countries don't invade small countries. the lid would be off that order if we abandoned ukraine and there's a direct security interest in keeping countries in their box. >> you talk about the funding and the support. my question is this phase and how long it's gone. if support is a concern, if the need to keep the western coalition has been critical, why not give them everything they ask for now? why not -- clearly, every red line that this administration was concerned about related to russia and what it may trigger, they have crossed over time and have not suffered consequences that they were concerned about. why not give them everything immediately? >> i think this administration has given ukraine everything that they need. and of course, we're transferring weapons systems to

them on a schedule that allows them to use those weapon systems. many of these systems are really accocomplicated. it would be irresponsible for us to hand those systems to the ukrainians without proper training or security procedures. we want to make sure that they know how to use these weapons systems and that they don't fall into the wrong hands. so we have to do this on the right schedule, but i think the biden administration has taken some real risks in transferring to the ukraineians some really serious systems, systems that could be use the in operations inside russia. systems that potentially risk escalating the war, but biden wants ukraine to win. i think that's been his north star from the beginning. >> i wanted to ask you, poppy picked up on this yesterday where you defended mitch mcconnell in terms of your sense of where he's at right now. reflective of what heard from republican senators and staff

behind the scenes, we haven't seen a lot of it publicly. can you just walk through the decision to do that. a democrat defending mitch mcconnell, not always the case. >> yeah, it's no secret that i disagree with mitch mcconnell's priorities. i think he's bad for this country. but at the same time, what i see is someone who has had a couple isolated instances. what you have seen is someone who generally is pretty in control of his caucus. i worked very closely with him just a year ago on passing the first major antigun violence measure through the senate. a measure that he ended up supporting. and so in the end it's up to the republicans whether they want mitch mcconnell leading them or someone else, this does seem to be likely a result of the concussion and with the exception of those kind of embarrassing moments, that he

seems very much the old mitch mcconnell that a lot of us are used to and use ed to battling. >> before you go, i'm interested in something you tweet ed about what was the most popular song in america just a few weeks ago. here's a little bit of it to remind people. ♪ >> we know fox news opened their first republican debate with that. and asked the candidates what they thought it meant. you tweeted progressives should listen to this because it shows a path of realignment. what do you mean? >> i don't agree with everything in that song. the singer seems to blame his problems on food stamps and taxes, which i think is just repeating right wing conservative tropes, but what he's also singing about is how

miserable work has become. how terrible wages are. how soulless existence feels for a lot of americans. there's a real potential for progressives, who actually have the answers for people who are crushed by low-wage work to reach out to folks and invite them to be part of our coalition. i saw a lot of my friends on the left just simply ridicule that song. there's a lot to ridicule in that song, but we would be better off inviting people who respond to that song, especially the parts of that song that complain about how difficult it is to be a working person in america today, and explain to them it's the democratic party that is going to control the accesses of corporations. it's the progressive movement that's been fighting for higher minimum wages. i just think that's a conversation we should be engaged in instead of seeing that song as an opportunity to just make fun of somebody or a group of people. >> it really certainly got me

and a lot of us thinking. we appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. a watchdog predicts a number that is not a welcome one. federal budget deficit to balloon to $2 trillion this year. that's extraordinarily confusing given this economy right now. we'll talk to jason fehr man about it, coming up. like indulgent memory foam, and ultra-conforming intellicoils®, for a beautiful l mattress, and indescribable comfort... every single night. stearns & foster® ... what comfort should be during our labor day sale, bring home incredible comfort with savings up to $800 on select adjustable mattress sets. learn more at stearnsandfoster.com from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank.

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number. the federal budget deficit is said to double this year. this is a new projection from the committee for a responsible federal government says it will balloon to $2 trillion for the fiscal year ending september 30th. it can con direct to higher rates for you, impact spending priorities for the government. the timing is weird and confusing. here is why. deficits typically shrink with the kind of economic growth and historically low unemployment we have seen recently. this means more taxes coming in and less government spending on unemployment. the increase we are seeing now only happens in wartime, a deep recession or the covid pandemic, for example. in 2020 the deficit dropped by the greatest amount evertu toe a stronger economy and no new

emergency spending on covid, but now it's shooting back up. jason furman is top economic advisor to president obama calms it, quote, some weird freakish thing. he joins me now. i was struck by your commentsin "the washington post." why is this happening. >> you know, they don't actually fully know, but part of it was there were a lot of can't tall gains taxes collected last year. then the stock market fell, so there wasn't nearly as many capital gains this year. but that's only a small part of it. it will be a while before the government collects all the data. most of this is happening in tax collections being down. >> is this weird, freakish thing going on going to be bad for americans at home soon? >> look, i think you've got to

right. high deficits do put upward pressure on interest rates, raise the cost of mortgages for families, they can effect the ability of businesses to invest, and this is now a problem that i used to think that maybe we could sort of skirt our way through, making some nips and tucks around the edges. but with interest rates so high, that makes it even harder for the government to deal with its budget. >> what can we do about it? >> i mean, look, there are two answers here. you can raise taxes. you can cut spending. the truth is, the government is going to have to do a certain amount of both. tax cuts for high income families have been one of the contributors, one of the reasons we have this large deficit. so we need to reverse those and certainly make sure that when all the tax cuts expire in 2025, that we are not continuing them. but then i think we can also look at some, you know, smart, well designed spending reforms. >> the white house has asked

about this. >> deficits from year to year can be volatile. so that's kind of how we have tracked that. but the reality is the president has a real plan as we've laid out multiple times to reduce the deficit, and we don't see republicans having a real plan. >> and she says that includes legislation the president signed which will cut the deficit by a trillion dollar. is it going work, what they are laying out? >> look, if you pass the president's entire budget, you would make progress on this problem and you would do a number of other good things for our society. i think that budget was formed at a time when we didn't appreciate just how large the deficit was, how high interest rates had risen. so you probably need to do more than what they put down, but it would be a start. i agree with her absolutely.

look at what the republican house recently passed. they passed even more tax cuts that would make this problem even worse. >> let me end on had. it's not a direct analogy, but hear me out. i wonder your thoughts. i was thinking a bit this morning with why there is this big disconnect between what the biden administration notes are facts on the economy being pretty good and how people at home feel. not just republicans, but democrats, about their economic situation and what it cost them to live and provide for their families. i thought to john mccain in 2008 and the fundamentals that the economy are strong and it was different and that was a different time and the fundamentals were not strong. does the biden administration risk a moment like that if they keep messaging bidenomics without conceding we get your pain on groceries, on mortgages, on rent? >> look, i am not a message expert, but just the facts. households got into a deep hole because of covid, because of all the inflation that emerged.

they are digging out of that hole now. they are making progress in terms of wages, outstripping inflation, but they are not out of the hole yet how exactly you message that, i will leave that to others. >> jason furman, thank you very much for always giving us the facts. appreciate it. a new report out this morning confirms what we have been feeling all summer. this was the hottest summer on record. we will have more next.

good morning, it's the top of the hour. something pretty remarkable is going to happen today. we will see the first televised hearing in the fulton county case against donald trump and his 18 co-defendants who allegedly tried to overturn his election loss in georgia. t could give us a clue if the