my cholesterol is borderline. so i take garlique to help maintain healthy cholesterol safely and naturally. and it's odor free. i'm taking charge of my cholesterol with garlique. >> and thank you so much for joining us. "cnn primetime" with abby phillip starts right now. hi, abby. >> and thank you so much for joining us. "cnn primetime" with abby phillip starts right. now hi, abby. >> hey, kaitlan. thank you so much, and have a good night. hello, everyone, i am abby phillip. it is shaping up to be one of the biggest criminal trials in

american history, literally. today was the very first televised hearing in that georgia case against donald trump and 18 of his allies. district attorney fani willis and her team revealed three big things about the election interference charges. first, they want to charge and try all 19 codefendants together. secondly, this trial could last for months. and thirdly, they will call more than 150 different witnesses. that means that the former president of the united states could spend a third of the next year sitting in a courtroom. in just one of his cases, while running for a second term. it is just extraordinary. and we are getting a preview of the tensions to come. two of those codefendants, trump's legal advisor sydney powell, and the so-called architect of the coup plot, kenneth chesebro, they want their trials to be separated, even though, through their lawyers, they, today, started pointing the finger at each other, essentially over who is less crazy. >> she was fired before this conspiracy actually even started up. because she said something -- was it crazy? and the trump people got rid of her. >> the evidence will show she was not the driving force

behind that. >> in the end, though, the judge did deny the requests. so, it will be tried together. joining me now is jim schultz, former trump white house lawyer, and elie mystal -- and columnist for "the nation" magazine. -- even the judge is skeptical that you can hold a trial for all 19 as soon as next month. but it makes me wonder, is this going to basically ensure that we won't even see this, even in the next year, because of how sprawling this all is? >> look, i think you can see perhaps those two tried on the 23rd. but i think you also have to take into consideration the rights of the other defendants there, and not looking, asking for their speedy trial rights. so, i do think it is very unlikely you are going to see a trial on the 23rd, with all 19 defendants. i think that is virtually impossible to. do i do think there is going to be a lot of pre trial motions. you have 150 witnesses. you are going to have a lot of motions related to evidentiary issues, a lot of motions to dismiss. and, quite frankly, as clean as jack smith's case was, this one is just a mess in terms of trying to manage, it from the judges perspective. sure, there have been cases around the country that, all the defendants, in that number, have been tried before. but i don't think it is likely

to happen in this, case given all the complex issues. i think you are not looking at a georgia case until next year or the year after. >> so, elie mystal -- >> -- when i say next year, i mean 2025. >> right. the next year, after the presidential election. elie, the former justice department prosecutor, andrew weissmann, he says that it really is absurd. over trying a case is never a good thing for the government. there is, in a way, a principle here, of trying to get a conviction, not just trying to make a point. is he right? >> no. we only talk about overtrying a case when we have white criminal defendants in the courtroom, right? -- we never talk about it when it's a drug king pin. we never talk about it when it's a terrorist. what we saw -- and i'm glad that the american people got to see -- what is a rico trial. and yes, it is large. it is complicated. but you see why we have the rico statute. because what happened in that courtroom today? within minutes, all the

defendants, it oh, it was not me, it was -- i don't know anything about -- right? they all started pointing the finger at each other. and the reason why you have a rico statute is so you can try them altogether so they can't get away with it, so that frankie five angels does not have to know what luka roxie was doing, if they are all part of the same criminal conspiracy. i fundamentally agree with jim that it is going to take a while, although i don't really think that it is going to happen until 2025, because the nature of rico is messy. but i don't think that, because we are doing a rico trial, that necessarily means that anybody is being overcharged or over prosecuted. they all, potentially, allegedly, or part of a conspiracy to overthrow the election in georgia. and so, we are going to try them all together. and that is what rico is for. >> jim schultz, you brought up a -- >> you might even see -- >> yeah, go ahead. >> so, you might even -- see look, these determination still have to be made by the federal judge, in the folks that have said they need to be tried federally. so, that is going to delay it even more. those are issues that are going to be taken up and decided and are going to delay this thing for the down the road. >> so, jim -- >> -- are still live. >> go ahead, elie.

>> i was just saying, the federal issues are still very. lead the federal issues are still live. we don't know what -- judge jones is going to do about that case. i don't think meadows has a great case to remove it to federal court. however, because of the nature of rico, if you start taking one defendant out and removing them to federal court, you have an argument. this came up in the hearing today. maybe you have to remove the whole case to federal court. so, there is still a lot to play out. and, again, that means we are unlikely to see sort of -- this is not going to be a snappy law and order resolution before the commercial break. this is going to take some time. but, you know, the wheels of justice to move slowly. but they do move. and what we saw today was the start of movement to hold these people accountable for their alleged crimes. >> look, fani willis is the one who says that she wants to do this quickly as well. some of the defendants have asked for their speedy trial

rights. but she said, i am ready to go, next month. it sounds like, based on the case that she put together, it can't possibly be as quick as that for all of these codefendants. jim schultz and elie mystal, standby for me for a moment here. also, new tonight, one of donald trump aides's flipping on him, that mar-a-lago i. t. worker who is threatened with prosecution in the, cases cooperating with prosecutors now. and as a result, he will not be prosecuted in this case. that comes as trump is saying he is willing to testify in his cases. >> if you have to go to trial, will you testify in your own defense? >> oh, yes, absolutely. >> you will take the stand? >> that i would. that, i look forward to. >> now, if history is any indicator, don't hold your breath for that. like, that time he declined to testify in the e. jean carroll case, or the time that he refused to testify in the

january 6th hearing, or the time he declined to testify in the investigation of his real estate empire, and the time he refused to testify in the hush money case. also, there is the time he would not testify at his own impeachment trial, or the time he did not sit down with robert mueller even though he said that he would. >> i am looking forward to, it actually. i think, yes, they are talking about two or three weeks. but i would love to do it. >> you see the trend here. jim and elie are still with. me elie, who is he kidding? >> not me, jack. look, trump is a liar. so, he is lying. and the fact that he is lying is one of the reasons he cannot testify. because, if he testifies, he will lie. and he will catch himself

another indictment, this time, for perjury. joe isuzu is less of a perjury risk than donald trump, putting him on a stand. no lawyer -- no lawyer who has been through, i would say, three months of law school, would dare to put trump on the stand to lie some. or so, no, he is not going to testify. he knows he's not going to testify. is lawyers know he's not going to testify. all of this is another lie from donald trump. >> jim, you know him. you also have the distinction of being a former lawyer for donald trump. what say you? >> so, look. i think this is just more donald trump bravado, right? there is no chance that he is going to testify at these trials. there is no chance that his lawyers are going to agree for him to do that. so, i agree with everything elie is saying there. i don't think there is any chance he testifies.

and there is no lawyer in the right mind would allow him to testify. >> so, we were just talking there about the mar-a-lago worker who struck that deal with the special counsel's office. he has agreed now to testify in the classified documents case. in exchange, he is not going to be prosecuted. but, jim, i wonder, this idea that, if you turn on trump and you don't get prosecuted, can the other codefendants or, even unindicted coconspirators, hang

their hat on that? that, if they flip, they escape all consequences here? >> it depends on the conduct and the allegations that have been made against those particular defendants in those cases. so, you can't -- you know, there may be some break that they are given. they may not be given immunity. but, i will tell you what. they all have to be flipping over their shoulder right now, looking at the, looking at that, at what that former defendant in the case did, and the deal that he made in saying, maybe i should be doing the same thing to save my skin. that has got to make trump really nervous. and the other defendants in the case nervous, because they are going to be looking around and saying, who is going next? >> yeah, and elie, from a purely psychological perspective, there is a huge impact. how big of a deal is this for

the special counsel's team? >> i think the real issue here is that trump does not have any more pardons to sell. he is not the president. he can't dangle pardons in front of these people. he can only say that, if he gets elected president again, maybe he will pardon them. but even that does not work for georgia. so, i do think -- look, one of the reasons trump has been able to avoid accountability, prosecution, whatever for so long, is that most of his people have stayed amazingly loyal to him. roger stone, paul manafort, people have taken the wait for donald trump. right? this might be where it all starts to break down. and once his own people start turning on him and start telling the truth to prosecutors and to the states, things are going to get even worse for a person who is now under four or five indictments. >> i have a feeling there will be quite a few more twists and turns in this case. you have in, at least the documents case, two individuals

who have attorneys who are tied to trump. that, in the end of itself, is a big source of potential problems down the road for those codefendants and perhaps or trump as well. jim schultz and elie mystal, thank you very much, both of you. and, up next, a watchdog group sues to keep trump off the ballot, citing the 14th amendment. that group's director makes his case, right here, next. plus, an obama campaign veteran calls his party a bunch of bed-wetters and tells them to -- about biden's chances. hours later, we are learning hunter biden is about to be indicted. and we are now seeing video of how an inmate escape that prison as the man hunt intensifies by the hour. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪

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banned from the ballot? a new lawsuit tonight is trying to make that argument. a watchdog is now suing on behalf of six republican and independent voters in colorado to keep trump of the 2024 primary ballot there. their argument stems from a rarely used provision of the 14th amendment that bans insurrectionists from holding public office. colorado secretary of state, jena griswold, a democrat, said in the statement said that she hopes this case will provide guidance to election officials on trump's eligibility as a candidate for office. the executive director of that watchdog group, citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, noah bookbinder, joins me now. noah, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> so, noah, i really want to put you to a test here on some of this, because, while i understand what is so appealing about this for a lot of people, frankly, this is really, really untested. i do wonder, though, first of all, why choose the state of colorado, which biden won pretty handily by almost 500,000 votes? >> colorado really emerged as our lawyers looked through it state-by-state as a particularly good first place for this kind of lawsuit for a couple of reasons. first of all, different states have different laws as to how you can challenge the

qualifications of a candidate for office. and colorado has a statute that says the secretary of state is required to remove from the ballot anyone who is constitutionally unqualified. it also has a law that citizens can go to court to challenge a candidate who is not qualified. so, it has a procedure built in. it's a quick procedure. and it is relatively early in the primary calendar, so that the case would be ripe earlier than inside of other cases. you also have another terrific group of courageous plaintiffs who are willing to make a stand on this. so, for all of those reasons, we thought this was a good first stop. it won't be the last up. and we had others will bring other cases as well. >> so, just days before trump launched his presidential bid a year ago, over a year ago, you

warned him in a letter that you would pursue this very thing, and disqualify him from holding public office. why did you wait a full year to file? >> we wanted to bring the case when the court was going to consider it to be ripe, when a court could not throw it out as premature. and also because we are ready to go in with witnesses, with evidence to put on a full case and prove that donald trump is constitutionally disqualified. that takes time to get a team together, to get all that evidence together. that is what we have been hard at work on for a year. >> so, one of the sticking points here is that the 14th amendment does not have any context about what the due

process is for what people who might be subject to it. who does get to decide who has violated the 14th amendment? >> as you said, this has been -- used and that's an unfortunate thing, because we have not had a lot of infections in this country. but, it has been used. there is case law from the 18 60s after the civil war. and there is also a case my organization represented new mexico residents in a case last year against the county commissioner, couy griffin, who was an organizer of the january 6th insurrection -- >> can i just jump in there, on that, for the -- in our viewers, the cases against in the civil war era, in -- and the case you just mentioned about 2022, that individual was actually convicted of playing a role in january 6th. what is missing here for trump is a conviction. >> it's interesting. so, couy griffin was convicted of a misdemeanor offense, eventually essentially trespassing. he was not convicted of insurrection. and, in fact, none of the post civil war cases involve people who were charged with or convicted of insurrection. there is actually a whole lot of case law saying that this is a totally different thing from criminal cases. this is not a criminal punishment. it's like a qualification.

it's like the constitution's, as you've got to be at least 35 to run for president. and you can go to court and if a 23-year-old runs for president, you can go to court and say this person is not constitutionally qualified. you have to establish with evidence that they are, in fact, 23 years old, and not 35. and, if you do, they are off the ballot. it is the same thing here. obviously, the substance is much more serious. but, if we can go to court, and it is a civil trial, and you prove by preponderance of the evidence that there was an insurrection, that this person, in this case, donald trump, engage in that insurrection -- and we did that in the case of couy griffin in new mexico, totally apart from his misdemeanor conviction -- and in that case, a judge ruled that he was disqualified. that can happen here as well. >> i don't want to hold you too much to your case of the qualifications on age, because it's pretty clear those are not really that comparable. this is a question of who gets to decide, a, what an insurrection is? whether someone's conduct

constituted engaging in an insurrection, whether that should be applied in a particular area -- it is really, actually, quite different. and i will say, because, frankly, you can prove from a factual perspective how old a person's. those are the questions are difficult. but what underlies a lot of this is that the american people are being asked here to say, okay, we are going to let judges decide that. do you understand why some people might not be comfortable with that? >> i certainly do. i would say that, look, deciding difficult issues, particularly difficult constitutional issues, is why we have courts. that is what our courts do every day. i take your point that somebody's age is obviously a much simpler question. but the american court system decides questions of what does the constitution mean and what does it apply to on a daily basis.

and, in this case, whether you look at what the house select committee on january 6th found or what conservative scholars, professors baude and paulsen, two major conservative scholars, who wrote a major piece about this -- people all across the political spectrum are looking at this and saying that the law and the facts are actually very clear here. now, it is true that, certainly, when line of criticism is, shouldn't the american people get to vote? and one of the rejoinder's to that is, that's what happened in 2020. the american people got to decide whether they want to vote for donald trump. they did not vote for him. he refused to accept the results of that election. and, actually, incited a violent attack. there is no particular reason that the result would be different this time. so, the idea that we sort of just trust it to democracy, when we are talking about someone who has literally attacked democracy, i think, is not particularly satisfying. >> one of the things you just mentioned that is that you are

gathering evidence to go to court, basically, to have a trial on this subject. just explain to us here -- are you suggesting that, basically, you are going to put donald trump on trial in all of these different jurisdictions, and litigate the factual question of whether or not he participated in an insurrection? that sounds, to me, similar to the question that is being investigated at the federal level, by jack smith -- it sounds to me similar to the question being investigated at the state level in georgia. you all are going to do that, state-by-state? >> we are starting in one state. and we may well do others. and these are not criminal trials. we are not trying to have anyone go to prison. this is just a question of qualification. but we are ready to make a comprehensive, factual showing. and then we will see what happens from there. that may enable future court cases. it also may empower secretaries of state who can make these constitutional decisions on their own. but they may not want to do that before a court has had the

opportunity to look at evidence -- >> well -- >> they may be able to go ahead and do that without the same procedure -- >> look, a lot of secretaries of state, including jena griswold, we write her statement, and spoke yesterday to the michigan secretary of state as well. they believe this is going to the supreme court. this is a really conservative supreme court. donald trump has appointed several of its members. what makes you think he would be successful at the supreme court level, if this goes there, as it might, eventually? >> i do think that this is something that, obviously, is of tremendous national importance. and, certainly, it's very possible it would end up in front of the supreme court, and it's always hard to predict what the supreme court will do. i will say that this is a supreme court which, actually, has been pretty strong in taking the position that donald trump specifically is not exempt from it, is not above

the law, and it's object to oversight. it took that position in cases that came before it about whether congress could conduct oversight of donald trump. it is not a court that has, in any sense, seemed to want to condone the kind of insurrectionist activity we saw after the 2020 election. so, i think -- and i also would point back to the really impressive conservative scholars, including a prominent former judge, j. michael luttig, who said that the facts and the law are clear here, who said that donald trump is disqualified under the 14th amendment. we think that we are going to be prepared to make a strong argument to the supreme court, if it gets that far, and that they would be willing to listen. >> all right. we will see how that turns. out noah bookbinder, thank you

very much for joining us. >> thanks so much for having me. >> and up next -- hunter biden, to be indicted? a senator dares republicans to impeach the president. and a former republican governor says, if trump loses the 2024 will race will be the last election, quote, decided by ballots rather than bullets. dana bash is here to talk about all of this and more.

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here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. a brand-new court filing from the special counsel investigating hunter biden reveals plans to indict the president son on gun charges by

the end of this month. hunter biden had previously reached a deal involving a gun possession charge, which would have allowed him to avoid prosecution if he met certain conditions. but that deal fell apart in court last month. cnn anchor and chief political correspondent dana bash joins me now. dana, this is clearly a legal problem for hunter biden. but if you're the white house or the president's campaign, how much of political problem is this? >> it's certainly not a welcome development. let's make that very clear. just a state blatantly obvious, abby. it's one thing for republicans in congress, particularly those who have control of the house of representatives, to be waging investigations into hunter biden, making claims

that they haven't yet proven with any kind of evidence about hunter biden and his father. it's a whole different thing when the biden justice department, through a special counsel who became a special counsel last month, but, yet it is still the biden justice department filing charges, and what will likely see will be an indictment. of the presidents son. now, is this a major issue in the grand scheme of things? no. this is a gun charge, as you mentioned. it is a charge based on the fact that he signed a form when he bought a gun saying he was not under the influence of drugs. and that was not true. he was taking drugs. he was now very open about the fact that he was addicted to crack cocaine. hunter biden legal team, they insist this is something that they are going to be able to figure out. and they will maybe be able to dismiss it down the road. if this president state, it is certainly not great news. for biden in any way.

legally or politically. >> yeah. it's a really good point. potentially a double edged sword for biden. this is all happening on the same day that jim messina, who led bronco bombs 2012 reelection campaign, is sending a message to democrats, basically saying, don't worry so much about the presidents reelection chances. he's arguing that biden is in a better position and most people realize. first of, all the polls say otherwise, dana, i know you and i both remember in 2016 when another obama lawyer basically making the same argument about trump. and, you know, we ended up with donald trump as president of the united states. >> they were wrong. >> yeah. >> that's right. you're exactly right. also, you and i both know, telling democrats not to be in jim messina's words, bed-wetters is like telling the son not to rise in the east and telling the ocean not to have waves come up on the beach.

just not gonna happen. again, this is democrats who admit this over and over again. the big argument that messina made in this series of slides in the slightly made was about the economy. and arguing the economy isn't that bad, he used statistics, talking about the so-called misery index. it actually in a better position than it was when barack obama was reelected, missing a renew at -- in 2012. one of the things that has not gotten that much attention in messina's presentation, abby. was the idea that a third party candidate and over a pretty serious challenger within the democratic party could be someone the democrats need to pay much more attention to. he noted, just when you look at the primary challenge, jimmy carter was challenged, didn't win reelection. george h. w. bush was challenged, didn't win reelection. and on the flip side, the third

party, if it is so incredibly tight, as we expected to be, any little bit of erosion when it comes to joe biden support could help donald trump, and he's talking about people like cornell west, or maybe no labels organization, which is still very much flirting with a third party run. >> yeah, that seems to be the thing that a lot of people in biden world are keeping their eye on, and most concerned about. dan, i want to get you to respond here to this. this is from former arkansas governor, mike huckabee, who today, made some waves when he said this on a show. >> people in power use their police agencies to arrest their opponents for made-up crimes in an attempt to discredit them. bankrupt them. imprison them exile them. or all of the above. and if you're not paying attention, you may not realize

that joe biden is using exactly those tactics to make sure that donald trump is not his opponent in 2024. here's a problem, if these tactics and of working to keep trump from winning, or even running in 2024, it is gonna be the last american election that will be decided by ballots rather than bullets. >> i, mean you can call it loose language, but honestly, then, it's just seems really irresponsible. >> it's part of a pattern, abby. never mind the former president, who has used similar language, not just pre january 6th in 2020 in the beginning of 2021, but even recently as a candidate, and other republicans. that is what is so dangerous.

this isn't a one-off from a former governor in arkansas, a former presidential candidate who knows better. but it is in increasingly -- that you're hearing from people who are trying to make the argument against joe biden, making the weaponization argument, the justice department argument. taking it so much further than they know is responsible to do. especially given the fact the fact that we have to look at january 6th to see how this kind of rhetoric has consequences. we already know what the consequences are, unfortunately, dana, thank you so much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> great to see, great to be here. >> he crab up a wall, he pushed his way through razor, where he's got a fence, and more to escape prison. see the video next. and a new twist in the murdaugh murders case, that no one saw coming. stay with us.

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tonight, a dangerous killer is on the loose, after daring to escape from prison, and we are now seeing how he did it. just look at this video of convicted murder, then yellow cavalcante, crab washing between two walls and chester county pennsylvania. police say that once he climbed those walls, the man pushed his way through two layers of razor wire and incredibly another inmate at that same prison made the same mistake just four months ago. he was captured within a few minutes of his escape. he has been on the run out for a full week. joining me now, kevin moville, the sheriff in franklin county,

new york. when two convicted murderers escaped from prison there in 2013 15. that help from a former prison employee, he was enamored with the man. she smuggled weapons and help break them out, one of the inmates was recaptured, the other was killed in a shootout. with police. kevin, the president warden here in pennsylvania is calling this basically a failure on the human side what you see when you watch that video? abby, i think it goes to show that inmates just because they're in jail doesn't mean they're not an intelligent person. does it mean they lack initiative or the fortitude this is obviously a man who does not want to be incarcerated and he would do anything to get out. it's almost ninja like. it takes a real planner to look at something like this and be able to pull it off. >> i mean, and he almost makes it look easy. the thing is, just four months ago, another prisoner basically did the same thing. not only escape from the same president, but used the same

climbing method. the president added the razor wire to try to block access to the roof, but can a prison ever really be made completely escape proof? >> well, when -- escape from clinton, they were the first ever escape from that state facility. as the franklin county sheriff, i ring the franklin county jail. you talked about him inspections, and you always try to plan for any given scenario. but you're competing against people have nothing else to do, 24/7. but to plan their escape and plan their, plan what they want to do. >> this search now has been going on for a week. there have been multiple sightings, vazquez even spied footprints today. when you lead the search for these two murderers who escaped from the maximum security prison, that took three weeks. do you think, in this case, the manhunt could take that long? >> they're dealing with a lot smaller area than we had. i'm sure they're using as many or even maybe even more resources. and resources are gonna be the key, the other key to this is the public. if you see, something say,

something it's important that communication to the right people in the right hands. i know they've had sightings and that just indicates to me that they're getting closer. and the thing they have to do now, just keep pushing, him don't give him a chance to rest. keep pushing him. keep bringing in fresh, horses new dogs, new officers, just keep on the chase. it's important. we have to catch this guy before he hurts somebody. he's a bad man. >> all right. yeah. a convicted murderer here. kevin malvern hill, this is sheriff, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> there's new twist to the murdaugh family murders case. the court clerk is being accused of tampering with the jury. the coauthor of that clerks tell-all book about the trial is here to respond. next.

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one of the most watched trials of the year has a new twist now. attorneys for disgraced lawyer turned convicted murderer, alec murdaugh, are pushing for a new trial. they're accusing the clerk of the court of tampering with the jury. rebecca hill is accused of advising jurors not to believe murdaugh's testimony, and pressuring them to make a guilty verdict. they claim that she did these things to secure for herself a book deal. and media parents is that would not happen in the event of a mistrial. she coauthored that book with my next guest. it's called behind the doors of justice. the murdaugh murders.

hill is not responding to these allegations, but my next guest, neil gordon, is. neil, thank you for being here. i want to first get you to respond here to some of these allegations, one of the jurors said that hill instructed the jury to, quote, watch murdaugh closely, and to look at his actions and movement. that juror says, they interpreted those instructions to mean that murdaugh was guilty. did she say that? >> not to me. we spent four months together, working on the book. i asked her many, many questions about all of her duties, which included working with the jury, with the judge, with witnesses, with the media, with the public. we went through just a litany of questions. and nothing like that ever came up, whatsoever. i was not there at the trial. and did not meet becky until three weeks after the trial as well. >> one of the things he's also accused of doing is instructing the jury to not be misled by murdaugh's defense. i mean, you have spoken to her

recently, as the allegations have come up. what is she saying to all of this? >> well, i did speak with her this evening, as a matter of fact. she's been huddled up in her home with her husband, reviewing pages and pages of these allegations. and they're taking them one at a time through the affidavits, very carefully. she has attorneys that are advising her, these are very serious allegations. and she's gonna answer them one by one, and then passed them on to her attorney. and then the attorney will be presenting things, in terms of the response to her court filing. at that point, she'll feel comfortable responding to the allegations. but she's very anxious to respond. >> so, she didn't deny them to you when you spoke to her today? >> oh, she has said before, on a few conversations that have appeared on some cable websites, she simply said these are not true. i need time to respond to the allegations.

that's all that i can tell you. >> the filing also argues that hill pressured jurors to come to their conclusion in their deliberations quickly. even adding that smokers can't smoke, and take smoke breaks >> very interesting. walter burrow was considered to be like mayberry, and if walterboro's mayberry

becky hill would be much like can't be. i don't ever watch mayberry growing up around the reruns, the point of the matter is, i've never heard her raise her voice. i've never heard her pressure anyone. i don't think it's in her dna. certain people are just very reserved, very measured with their thoughts. that's how i would describe becky to a tee. so, i find that extremely hard to believe, just from the time that i spent with her. and i don't know too much, again, about the smoke situation that you brought up. but the way the court system works, with becky having so much overarching responsibility and all those areas that i described earlier, the chief bailiff really, his one role, was to carefully watch the jurors. and make sure that they were in the correct place at the correct time. so -- >> i do want you to, i want you just before you go here, you wrote this book with her. one of the allegations is that the whole point of her trying to get a quick verdict is that she wanted the notoriety that came with this book. that's also very serious allegation that would kind of

embroil you into some of this as well. >> very fair, abby. i take extreme exception to what our tour attorneys harpootlian and griffin said. they just got it wrong. the fact is, there was no book deal coming her way or our way. we spent $30,000 of our life savings together, our families, to be able to purchase books in advance and get editors and deal with attorneys and get everything that we needed to do to be able to -- and publish this book. so, not only do we not receive in advance and money, we came out of pocket. none of that made sense to me. >> all right, neil gordon, thank you for joining. us thanks for answering those questions. >> my pleasure, abby. just in, and surprise announcement from bruce springsteen, why he is suddenly canceling a month's worth of shows. ♪ ♪ ♪

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