that. >> nice to see you as always. everyone, good evening, i'm laura coates and welcome to cnn tonight. breaking news tonight, pennsylvania state police say they have confirmed now a sighting on this very night of the escaped killer, danelo cavalcante. a trooper telling cnn, quote, there has been a confirmed sighting tonight and it is still being investigated further. we've got a live report coming up. plus, the legal challenges coming fast and furious tonight as donald trump's team is battling the criminal charges against him on multiple fronts. and, in washington, he wants the federal judge, tanya chutkan, to recuse herself from the 2020 election subversion case. the one that it's brought, of course, by special counsel jack smith. he is arguing the public will not accept the outcome of the case if she doesn't recuse herself. meanwhile, in georgia, he's also asking the court to dismiss several criminal charges against him in that election interference case. let's not forget, tomorrow is the deadline for one fani

willis to explain how all 19 cases there would possibly, or could possibly, be tried together. that is a tomorrow's news tonight. plus, what is the strategy of those 19 defendants behind the scenes in the georgia r.i.c.o. case and are they getting a little bit of a preview of the government's case? we'll tell you all about it. and, listen to what georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger told anderson cooper tonight. we've got much more to come everyone, on all of that, but i want to begin with all of the fast moving developments tonight in the criminal case against donald trump. joining me now is former trump white house lawyer james scholz and georgia prosecutor chris timmins. i'm glad to see you both here, gentlemen. let's begin with you here, jim,, because trump's lawyers are honing in on this comment that was made by judge chutkan in a case of a rioter from january six. does that argue meant stand up? the filing says this, the bugle

mob that capital were there in fealty and loyalty to one man, not to the constitution. it is a blind loyalty to one person who, by the way, remains free to this very day. people who exhorted you and encourage you and rallied you to go and take action and to fight have not been charged. i wonder what you think about that statement there and what she is saying. are you seeing that as a caused justify the request from trump's team to recuse herself? because, frankly, jim a lot of judges on this very docket have had to grapple with and preside over cases involving january six defendants. is it's enough to recuse her? >> this is why it is very difficult to get a judge to be removed from the case. it is going to be largely in her own discretion to make that determination and i think that there is not by chance that she is going to recuse herself from this case. i think she is already asked

for expedited briefing on this from jack smith's team and they're going to put it in context, right? they're going to put it in context and the way that, in such a, way that these comments were made in response to claims that were made by folks who are being sentenced in those cases. and they deserve the response and she made inappropriate response, and i think that is how it is going to be. it is how it is going to be portrayed by jack smith's team on it, i think it will give her that roadmap and context to what she said and i think, ultimately, she is going to be the one hearing the case. >> you know, it is likely of course that she is not going to recuse herself for that very reason. again, as i mentioned, there are so many judges and the d.c. federal courts who have had to preside over the many cases already. but, chris, in another filing trump is asking the court to dismiss several of the state charges that he is facing in the fulton county case. he's arguing there that the states case is deficient and also saying that maybe to move decide to a court. we are going to see a lot of these motions, first of all.

what is the likelihood of success in georgia? we know that mark meadows was already not successful so far, how about trump? >> laura, the motion that he filed today is kind of a metoo, taking on to raisman's motion that was filed by don spaniel who is a prominent defense attorney in atlanta. don's motion essentially says that the enterprise in rico is too broad to really be appropriate here for a r.i.c.o. charge. what he is really trying to do, laura, is he is trying to gain sympathy for his clients both nationwide and among potential jurors by alleging that anybody who thought there was election fraud and did anything about it could potentially be swept up in this rico conspiracy enterprise. i don't think it is going to be successful, i think the judge can see through it and i don't think it was a mile voting that was filed for the court, it was for the public. >> kind of reverse of the audience of one, now the audience of the public on this notion. mark meadows is asking the 11th circuit to intervene, depaul's the decision that says that he

can't move to federal court and take up an appeal on an expedited patient. i sure by the public of course that the supreme court assigned the 11th circuit to -- is clarence thomas. interesting perhaps turn of events, but here a georgia prosecutor, how long could this process take and what happens to those who are currently pursuing the state charges? are they in limbo? >> well, we have got a speedy trial defending on two of the defendants so i think no matter what those two are going to be headed to trial on october 23rd unless they ask for a continuance and plead guilty. the thing that is really up in the air, though, is who is going to be with them laura and a lot of it depends on how quickly the 11th circuit acts. also, the further we get towards october 23rd without any sort of ruling from the 11th circuit the less likely we are to have anybody but the two going. but, i think of are the judge in this particular case, knowing that i'm going to have to tie up my courtroom for

probably nine months to a year or just trying one trial, looking at that times two and then thinking about the thousands of other cases that are going to be held up, or at least 1000 cases are going to be held up all those cases are pending, that is going to be problematic. you've got people who are in jail, you've got people who want it to get divorces, none of that can happen while the courtroom is being tied up with these trump defendants. >> it's great point, jim, that obviously it will take a lot of resources. 19 defendants, it's not the first time in georgia that this is happened. you've got other cases that fani willis has tried, one involving school officials and administrators, one involving a rapper and those who are alleged to be a part of a criminal enterprise as well. not unheard of to have multiple defendants. they might whittle down obviously to a smaller number by the time it actually goes to a trial and, right now, as chris said it's only two. but, i'm wondering what impact the idea of the appellate process will have because he will remember last week at the hearing at the judge mcafee said, look, are we sort of kicking the can down the road? are we prolonging the

inevitable here? because people are going to want to appeal and, as one says, let me have my turn, maybe it does there is next and we will wait and see. >> i have said since day one, as clean as jack smith's case is, this case is just messy. and it is necessarily messy because it is a r.i.c.o. case, there are a lot of defendants in the case, there are going to be a ton of motions filed, we are probably two years out from any real trial on this thing other than the folks who have availed themselves of the speedy trial provisions and you're going to see the motion practice and emotion practice. as it relates to the meadows matter, i do think there is a good chance that the circuit court may try to ask for expedited briefing on that because they're going to want to address that issue, take it up, and either overturn it or send it back down so that they can do what they need to do at the state court level. >> gentlemen, the court was pretty clear and deciding not to have meadows and to be able to have his case removed and it's really about mark meadows. a kind of extrapolation for every other case, or every other defendant, but you can

foresee a time, can you not, 11 will say it is my turn to prolong this. we know at least one person does not want to go this year, so tomorrow, chris, it's going to be very consequential. the briefing will be very important to figure out whether to convince the judge can all be done logistically. but the real question in georgia that everyone is wondering is, okay, say if fani willis is a team comes back and convinces the judge, look, i've got it all covered and i can logistically do this in case of 19 people at once. look at this lovely e-book photo we have right here of all these different people, assuming they all go forward with a trial. if they are able to convince the judge of that does the fact that two have already asked for their speedy trial and hat on october 23rd date mean the other 17 could actually have to go on that date? >> that's what that means laura. i'm sorry, i apologize jack. >> look at this beautiful chivalry of running right now.

it's wonderful to see, my heart is warmed just now. chris, you go, and then jim if you want to respond just for the whole notion here. go ahead chris. >> jim, my apologies. anyhow, laura, i think that if you are the judge you want it all to go at one time. the big wildcard here is that the federal removal and potential double jeopardy. i don't think that anybody completely understands, will they know what jeopardy attaches, that was when the jury is sworn in and the first witness is sworn in. but the question is that if jeopardy attaches at the state level and then the cases removed from federal court do you have double jeopardy at that point? so the judge seemed concerned about that at the initial hearing and i think he still has those concerns. i don't think anybody is completely answered that question yet. >> jim, real quick? >> no, i think it will be really difficult to try all of these at one time. i think other folks have not invoked their speedy trial rights, i think they're going to continue to file motions and i think that she is going to

have a hard time making the case that all of them should go at one time in that short timeframe that we are looking at. >> jim schultz, chris timmins, as always thank you so much. listen, my next guest argues that the 19 defendants in the fulton county case actually have a bit of a coordinated strategy behind the scenes. this former assistant watergate prosecutor and he joins me now. i'm glad you're here because there's been a lot about r.i.c.o., which is this criminal enterprise statute. but you say that there is not any thing illegal happening behind the scenes, but that these 19 codefendants lawyers, they are not on islands on to themselves, are? they >> of course not. i have been in multi defendant cases before and, what you wind up doing in those cases is entering into a joint defense agreement with all the other lawyers to protect the privilege and also to come up with a strategy and a way to go after the government's case. to somehow tried to mark it up and try to make things

difficult for the government. >> people here are agreement and they think is it a signed document, does the judge have to look at it and agreed to it? who has to sign off on this joint defense? >> first of all, it doesn't have to be signed document. the court is saying it's preferable that needed to be signed, but it can be oral. they can agree to do this, it is totally proper. and they come up with a strategy, it is pretty obvious to me what the strategy is here. >> what is it? >> it is to try to break up this trial anyway they can into multiple trials so that they, essentially, cause the government to have to try this case more than one time. right now, it is possible they could be trying it two times because of the two people that have demanded speedy trials. and i think what they really have to do, the dea has got to be very firm that she is prepared to go ahead with all 19 defendants in october, that the two people who have demanded speedy trial are basically doing it on behalf of

all the other defendants to try to break up the trial so that the government has put through the burden of having to do this twice, that they get a preview of the case, that they are put in a position where the government has to go under the burden of doing this and then, being in a position where they may have to make better deals with individual defendants. >> on the point, in terms of thinking about the why, why they would want to break it up. you want to have a preview of the defense, you want to be able to say show me what you have got. obviously, the more times a case is tried a prosecutor would like to think they get better and better. but there might be room for error or motions that were successful that went against the government in some way. maybe there is that brady exculpatory evidence that might come into play. but if you are talking about having to prove the criminal enterprise, right, if you are fani willis's -- team >> you've got to do it every time. >> so what is to stop a jury, for example, from saying hold

on a second? where is everyone? why is everyone not here and how do you force them if they are not ready to go to trial yet? >> you force the defense, the judge has to be firm. the judge has to say there are two people who say that they are in a position to go ahead with a trial in october. and use that basically as and emission against all the other defendants. if these two people can do it, the rest of you can do it and you are all going to be here in october 23rd and i guarantee you that, if the judge does that, all of a sudden these two people, jazz borough and powell have asked for a speedy trials, are suddenly going to withdraw those two demands. >> it is interesting, we have heard a lot about this thing about antagonistic defenses. a short way of saying that we're going to point your fingers at each other in some way and maybe try to confuse a jury for a variety of reasons. is that part of what this joint defense agreement seems to be? what does that about? >> it is not antagonistic defenses here.

>> they said as much last week. >> they may have said that, but there is nothing antagonistic about what they are going to do. i have been in various, multiple defended trials. i have never been involved in and into hygienist defenses between clients in a multi defendant case, he just don't do that because then you are having point fingers at each other and it is bad for all of the defendants. so it never happens. there is no such thing as a real antagonistic defense among multiple defendants. that is not going to happen here. >> it is interesting because it is one of the criteria that the judge used to determine whether you could actually suffer. if you have antagonistic defenses, that kind of finger pointing, confusion among the jury, and then the idea that the judicial -- so he was pretty honed in on that. he did not think it was a valid argument being made and the defendants conceded. but you can imagine that jurors might be saying to themselves who is more at fault and are

they eventually going to point the finger at one another because that is kind of what happens when somebody flips? >> that is if they flip. if they flip, it is a whole different story. but, there is no reason to think that any of these people right now are going to flip or turn on the others and these are all of the hard-core, maga people, the trump fans, the trump sycophants, they are all going to stick by him. >> you really think so? all of them? >> absolutely. i think they all think that somehow donald trump is going to take care of him, that they are going to take care of the legal fees, despite what everybody is saying. they are all hanging in there and they have no other choice at this point because they are all in this together. there are eight different basically schemes among this r.i.c.o. account and it is very easy to compartmentalize people here. there is not real finger-pointing if you are accused of stealing data in

coffee county and then you are accused of being part of the fake electors, which has nothing to do is stealing the data in coffee county. there's not a lot of finger pointing to be done here among the defendants. they really are very distinct schemes within the enterprise and all of this is considered to be by the jury against all the defendants. there is really no reason not to try them all at the same time and there is no reason why, if two can be prepared to take on all of this evidence at once, why the others can't do it at the same time. if i was a judge, i would assume that is just an admission by two of these defendants that they can do, it why can't everybody else do it? >> you know, i think the judge is quite clear that if they can make this convincing argument, but here is where we disagree. i have got to tell you, i don't know if i've a 20-dollar bill on me or not to bet you, but i bet there is every reason that at some point, because trump is not paying everyone's bills, he is not going to be the person

who is holding all of the person strings, i hear you when you say that there is a likelihood that people will stick together but you and i have seen stranger things and people realize that jail time might be at hudson's they think things differently sometimes. >> that depends, when you get closer to trial and you realize this problem somebody could flip, there will be witnesses but that's part of the joint defense agreement. certain things can't be used if people do that, but the case goes ahead and the rest of the people go ahead in front of a jury with no one pointing the finger you're hedging, i get to right. now thank you so much. >> thank you. >> okay, listen, coming up our breaking news. a confirmed sighting of the escaped inmate noella cavalcante in pennsylvania. the latest, tonight.

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well there's breaking news, tonight everyone, the pennsylvania state police are

confirming tonight another sighting of the escaped murder the velo cavalcante. joining me now, cnn's brian todd and former fbi director andrew mccabe. and retired fbi special agent daniel bruner. thank you all for being here. i want to begin with brian, who is out there. this is another sighting tonight, again? it's in realtime? what do you know? >> pretty much in realtime lower we just got word short time ago from pennsylvania state police that he has confirmed there has been another sighting of danelo cavalcante. we can tell you that within the last two hours my team and i saw and moved through some visibly ramped up areas of ramped up police presence. that was in the area of east midfield township. and that was the area where danelo cavalcante, according to local residents, and police, ditch deval and that he was stolen. he ditched that, vent leads that are. day stolen earlier from a dairy

farm. that very area, where he ditched that from behind a barn is the area that we're talking about. when we saw around to police a short time ago, we could also tell you that the pennsylvania state police, just moments ago, issued a series of reversed 9-1-1 calls to all the residents in that area. i'm going to redo the contents of this reverse 9-1-1 call. standby here. calling it up. this is from the pennsylvania state police. it says the pennsylvania state police are receiving reports of an escaped convict, danelo cavalcante in the area of ridge road, camel tree dull road, and the seidel road in east nantucket meal township. residents in the area are asked to lock external doors and vehicles. remain indoors. please reveal your surveillance videos and contact police if you observe anything suspicious. if you see this individual, do not approach him. call 9-1-1. very significant, they're lower, because they are saying that danelo cavalcante, possibly has

a weapon. up until this point, the police have not confirmed that he as a weapon we have asked them repeatedly over the last week whether you have any indication that the as a weapon and they have said no, we do not have any indication, this is significant not only exciting but that he possibly has a weapon on him and in the area where he allegedly ditch that van on saturday night. this is the second confirmed, basically the third confirmed sighting of him in the last 48 hours. on saturday night he was captured on to ring doorbell cameras that are connected to former work associates of his. police say he went to those residents on saturday, seeking help, he did not get it. he did converse with someone over the ring door and audio speaker there in portuguese. asking for help. that person was not able to help him. and the other person he tried to get help with was not home. so three confirmed sightings in the last 48 hours, this one tonight and now a reverse 9-1-1 call, the local residents saying that he possibly has a

weapon. that's pretty significant, laura. >> yes, it is, andrew i'm hearing of this 12 days now and his appearance has changed. he is bold enough to go to people to actually communicate, asking for help as well. he now, maybe possibly armed. did this change a lot in terms of the collaboration? >> well, laura, what i think it does is that it indicates that kind of elevated degree of desperation on the part of mr. calvin conte. i mean he is engaged in a nonstop hunt for resources. that's right, he cannot stay where he is. he's gotta get to. way and to do that he needs transportation, he needs food, he needs shelter and clothing periodically. and so he is constantly 24 hours a day on the hunt for those items. he improved the situation over the weekend by changing his appearance, he changed his clothes, he acquired some transportation but it seems like he ran out of gas with that ben. and now he's been in the same area for it least 24 hours,

which tells us that he's not acquired new transportation. if he has armed himself, with either a gun, a knife or any other sort of weapon that elevates the concern of law enforcement significantly. because his next interaction with a citizen whose home, maybe he approaches an effort to kind of get those things that he needs could turn violent. we know this is a person who's used violence before. he's killed twice before. and he desperately does not want to go back to prison. so they are looking in the right places. but it is the desperation that's elevated. >> when you got someone with their back again against the wall, the desperation, the idea that he has been convicted of a horrific homicide, two young children might now be armed and they've been able to triangulate a little bit, it sounds like, by having this reversed 9-1-1 call to warn

residents about the area he might be. and what is sticking out to you about this? >> well are what's really sticking out to me is that he is really, as andrew was saying he is at this point desperate. he is moving at night. and he is getting seen by the community, whether the tip came in from someone looking at their security camera or whether he prepped up and was seen by law enforcement. and they were able to see the fire arm. at this point he is getting desperate. the fact that law enforcement is pushing into this area with all their assets that are available, you have k, 90 of air assets, you have infrared moving into the area and pushing in really hard at this point. you're going to get him running backward as andrews stated this point can get really dangerous because if he is armed there is no reason why he won't go all out into a house and create a barricade situation, which then

causes a situation where civilians may get caught in the cross fire. >> early on, we heard cross fire wanting to stress, him wanting to encircle him in a way he felt as though the walls were closing in on him, of course then the question becomes what happens if there cannot be, in his, mine a peaceful surrender. i also wonder if he's watching the news knowing that his pictures out there. he chained disappearance. he now knows to come clean, she, even and beyond. brian let me go to you here. i'm wondering about the stolen ban that's being mentioned. what do we know about the van? have we learned anything? >> we have learned some details lore. we know that the van was stolen on saturday, from a dairy farm. the lieutenant colonel of the pennsylvania state police told us, today, that the people who own that van left the keys in it. so he took advantage of a opportunity there. he still litany headed for several hours before he detected. they were indications that he was running out of gas.

he parked behind a barn. we went live from the barn, earlier this evening. it seems like a very random and remote place for him to have driven. especially so far away from the area where he's previously, where they had a church parameter previously along with guards. that is about roughly 20 miles away from. they're also about 20 miles away from the prison itself. it's a long way to drive. it is a long, again, a series of meandering random roads out there. the fact that he chose that place to ditch the van, it could be that he ran out of gas. it could also be that there's another reason he ditch the vendor. but if indeed, he's been inside in that area, this is suspicions that he has another vehicle, not saying that he has but maybe that he did go off on foot, maybe he's still in that area. it's also very, very dark out there. and if anyone has seen him, as we've been told there's been a

confirmed sighting that is pretty extraordinary. it's pitch black in that area. >> it is, and, daniel bryan, andrew. thank you so much all of you. there's so much to unpack. a lot of maybe, salon of conversation around the desperation. at the end of the day, this man has still not been caught. he is supposed to be serving life without parole. gentlemen, thank you so much. stay with me. former president trump, everyone, is hitting the campaign trail. he's telling voters to fight or to lose the country. and giving a hint as to maybe how he might keep the country in his power.

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we have to remember that it's a

democrat, judging their opponent nobody has ever said that they like. if that means that if i win, and somebody runs to run against me. i'll call my attorney general. and i'll say, listen, indict him. he hasn't done anything wrong. i don't know, indict him on income tax invasion. you'll figure it out. >> well look, i know that donald trump was likely being sarcastic there. we have to wonder if he really is under the impression, that the attorney general are waiting for an objection for the president of the united states. they are not. they are a political importante for the president but it doesn't make them puppets. but look, sarcastic or not, he is suggesting that president biden has somehow directed him under pursuing indictment on the republican front runner. not because he's guilty of a crime, but the simply heard his

political senses, and figure something out. and don't forget, a president actually cannot look, at and should not put his thumb on the skill and don't forget that department of justice -- [interpreter] there are more than 100 and thousand 50 employees over 1000 componency. of the criminal division, the civil division, the antitrust division, the civil rights division, national security division, the dea is under the umbrella. the fbi, the bureau of prisons, the u.s. marshal even interpol. and that only scratched the surface right now. so if you look at the department of justice's work, it comes down into two federal indictments against the former president. you really have another thing coming. and, you have to wonder, why the person asking to be the head of the executive branch, over that whole chart as to be the president again, by the way doesn't already understand that. but, then again, maybe he is

just being sarcastic. we want to talk about all of this, once again, with andrew mccabe the law enforcement analyst and former deputy director of the fbi and, andrew, look, you are a former fbi deputy director. and i have to say, how alarmed are you to hear our former president, and by the, way a current gop front runner float the idea of sham prosecutions that are retaliatory all over the campaign trail? >> yes, well, how do you start with this one. maybe we should just make a mention of the deep apoxsee of donald trump, the person who spent the last several months, year, whatever it's been -- and is basically telling the american voters that if elected that is exactly what he will do. i mean we know he has a plan in place, already to replace many of those department of justice,

career professionals, civil servants you just mentioned and all those different divisions and different ways they serve around the department to re-classify their position so they can be replaced with political appointees. so, the one thing i disagree with you on laura, i don't think he's being sarcastic at all. i think donald trump has been heartful about hiding his true meaning or giving himself a way out of what he is saying by seeing it in a way where he could always say, well, i was only joking. i don't think he's getting at all. i think what he's saying is what he intends to do if he becomes president. and that is to use the department, its resources, and its people to seek retribution against those who feel they have endured him in some way. so, it is completely un-american. and it totally undermines the system of justice and the rule of law that all of the united states citizens and person in this country depend upon every day.

>> speaking of that vast dependence that the american people had, every now and then i get the impression personally that people must think the doj is just waiting for instructions. to figure out, what are we gonna do next, with all this idle time on our hands what can we possibly be doing today? one of the real issues of being a prosecutor, and i've been one is that you are expected to be perfect, you have time to be perfect because the sheer volume of cases that you have is going to, before many people, exponentially greater than the time that you have to actually prosecute the case and you still must do it correctly. and the doj, as you, know is involved in hundreds if not thousands of cases every single month, they don't grab any headlines. and certainly not a matter to people safety. so the idea of a president thinking that the agency and these different components are only waiting to talk about political retribution, i mean human trafficking would not be focused on. the drug enforcement issues, the atf, and beyond.

it's just a little minor part of all that happens across doj. i mean to people does not understand, do you, think when they're clapping or applauding that that is a vast department? >> i think they don't. i'd like to think that people are just kind of getting caught up in the moment and the performative aspect of trump and everything that he does. but you are absolutely right. the biggest challenge, when you work for doj, or the fbi's resources. there is not enough people and time and money to do the things that you feel compelled that you have to do to protect the american people. they are buried in cases. and, the on those cases that the responsible for there are many, many more threats and problems and strategic issues that need the attention of the good people who work in the department of justice. and to tell american voters that it is all just politics, and the president can order them around we still need the

service to all those hundreds of thousands of people who do this work every day. we keep up faith, we tried to maintain the rule of law where we can all expect to be treated the same under the law. >> so are we not a perfect system? but the idea of reallocating resources for retribution seems entirely counterproductive, to the overall admission. andrew mccabe, thank you so much. >> things. >> well the former secret service agent to speaking up for the first time in 60 years, everyone. telling his version of what happened when jfk was assassinated. someone close to that agent is going to join us, next. you should check out inspire. no mask. no hose. just sleep. learn n more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

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a former secret service agent

was kept silence for 60 years is now finally speaking out. in his new book, the final witness, paul and his claims that he found a bullet in the back seat of kennedy's limo. he said that after discovering the bullet he picked up, put it in his pocket, and later placed it on the presidents structure. now, if that booster, this could up and key facts of the official government investigation of what actually happened on november 22nd 1963. joining me now is james robinson, he's a lawyer, presidential historian, and contributor for vanity fair. thank you for joining us today, this is a huge and very significant moment if this is a true. i do wonder, the, why wait until now to say anything about this? >> yeah, i wrote an 8000 word vandy fair article that kind of explains it in greater detail but the thumbnail is that after the assassination paul landis,

who is the secret service agent, spent the week in tremendous turmoil taking care of jackie kennedy that entire week. and then, after, that he was assigned to take care of her. jackie kennedy could not sit down after the assassination. she was traveling all over the place. paul was having severe ptsd, he saw the president's heads explode, he was looping in his head over and over, you couldn't sleep. so he finally left six months later and did not want to look back. he read nothing about the assassination until 2014 and then, when he really looked, he saw that they had a critical fact wrong and he began his odyssey and a journey to write his book. >> so no one ever questioned him? he didn't have an interview of any kind and talk about this? in light of the significance of him being on the scene, nobody asked this detail before that? >> yeah, remarkably not. the warren commission did not

interview him and the fbi did not interview him. in fact, there are several agents in that follow up car who were never interviewed even though they were the closest eyewitnesses to what happened. paul was on the running vote on the right side of the follow-up car which was code named -- and he was a direct witness and then of course once he gets to parkland hospital he discovers the bullet and bullet fragments that are critical to what happened here and nobody talked to him. nobody questioned him. by the time he left jackie kennedy's service, the warren commission was not even out yet. nobody even heard of the single bullet theory and he just went on his way thinking he had left the bullet with the president and it was used in the autopsy. >> i read your piece in vanity fair and you clearly believe he what he has to say. if you think he is credible and what he is describing and is relaying as the facts. i want to take a step back in the significance of this because there is this magic bullet theory that has been

talked about. a single bullet not only struck the president, but also the governor in texas as well and this idea that it was able to cause all these injuries in this way, either through ricocheting or otherwise, has really been ahead scratcher for some people who have been following all of this. what would this story, if true, and you do believe, it what would that mean for that theory? is it gone? >> well, laura, first of all i am like you. i started my relationship with paul in may after his book was done. i had nothing to do with the writing of the book and no stake in the writing of the book, but i knew he needed help to get ready for the big onslaught that was coming. i was extremely skeptical and so i really think that the major thing here is that if the bullet lodged in kennedys back, superficially it did not penetrate and did not -- through his neck, then the single bullet theory is a dead

because it stops there. governor connally gets hit with in a second on this is a brutal film of kennedy putting his arms up when he gets there. and that is not enough time for oswald and his bolt action rifled caucus, reload, aim, fire. the commission figured it took 2.3 seconds to do that and there is only a second between them. so it is highly likely that somebody else was shooting and that connally got hit by a second bullet, not one fired by oswald. >> this is unbelievable. obviously the stories and the thoughts of surrounding the significant day in american history continues to this day to torment us all was a question of what really happened. james orban, all thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. ice works fast. ♪ heat makes it last. feel the powerer of contrast therapy. ♪ so you can rise from pain.

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>> tonight on 360, breaking news, new pushed by the former president to get the judge and his january 6th trial of the case, and his warning that the public will not accept the outcome otherwise. also, a search for survivors on the heels of one natural disaster, the earthquake in morocco, and tracking potential another your queen lee heading towards the east coast. plus, more than a week since he broke out of prison, how housing escaped killer managed to elude capture for so long? good evening, we begin tonight with breaking news, the former president calling out federal judge tanya chutkan to recruits herself from his case. that, a warning from his attorneys who say in their request, quote, only at this trial is administered by a judge who appears entirely impartial, could the public ever except the outcome as justice. as one of the federal