>> they are sometimes charged by themselves and the other one, the possession charge, the 922g is often charged for themselves but not for the subsection that deals with drug addicts. the most common one is a felon being in possession of a firearm but that's frequently charged by itself, but, you know, it's -- this one provision because it's so uncertain and so harder to prove is the one you don't see very often. the penalties vary. it really depends on the person's prior record, and it really is on a sliding scale of what the -- the criminal activity was, what kind of gun it was. if it was a particularly dangerous firearm, if it was used, discharged. in this case with hunter biden having a regular handgun for a brief period of time, not using it or discharging it in any other way, having no prior convictions on his record, at least as far as i know. he would be looking at not very

much time, maybe around a year, 12 months, could be even less than that depending on whether they consider the gun to have been possessed for sporting purposes or collection, and i don't know if he could make a case for that or not, but, you know, we're talking about probably somewhere in the 12-month neighborhood i would think. >> jennifer, please stay with us. we want to reset for our viewers if you're just joining us on "cnn news central," an historic decision by the department of justice. they have filed charges against the son of president joe biden, hunter biden, three different charges, two of them related to lying on statements in an effort to buy a firearm. the third charge for actually possessing that for imas a prohibited person. a reminder, the case being brought by special counsel daniel weiss is based on hunter biden's purchase of this weapon as he wrote in his form that he was not using narcotics and later in a biography wrote that

he did. we have a team of reporters and analysts with us to break down this news. first to paula reid. you're getting some new reporting about what's going on. >> yeah, i've been speaking to a few people in hunter biden's camp. even when the plea deal fell apart they felt like the judge would approve it and when that didn't there's quite a bit of despair because he's facing millions and millions in legal debt from his various legal issues, and it's very difficult for him to find employment right now or raise money, so these charges today, i am told they came as news to their team. they have not scheduled an initial appearance or how exactly he's going to turn himself in, right? will he be arrested? typically you arrange a time to turn yourself in. they have also been asking a lot about his relationship with his father and with the white house, and i'm told by multiple sources that he's still very close to his dad.

they talk frequently, but they don't talk about this criminal case a lot. i'm told that hunter doesn't want to burden his father with it. >> they shouldn't be talking about it, right? >> right. >> they should not be talking about this. i want to go to kayla tausche at the white house. as you're seeing reaction there, tell us what you're getting. >> reporter: well, brianna, we are hearing from the white house counsel's office who as expected when asked to respond to the news of the indictment today said that any questions should be referred to the department of justice or hunter's personal representatives given that this is an independent investigation. that's been the official line from the white house ever since this began. the white house has pointed out that trump appointment of david weiss as essentially legitimatizing the investigation back when it was expected to result in a plea deal, and also suggested that the five-year nature of the investigation

meant that whereof it was going to end up was going to be done in a way that evaluated all of the facts at hand. certainly it has taken a different turn than the white house, than the president had expected. the president was -- was said to be relieved when this was headed towards a plea deal, and that when the plea deal fell apart there was quite a bit of uncertainty and frustration that entered the situation, but when i spoke to some people who are close to the white house about, you know, the efforts by republicans to try to tie the president to the actions of his son, they said, you know, at this point the only thing the president is guilty of is loving his son and coping him close and that aides within the white house know that. they know not to cross the president when it comes to issues involving hunter, that he remains extremely close, as paula said to his father. the two men speak regularly. hunter is still invited to official white house events. he's invited on the president's

plane, on his vacations and it's bite these legal troubles the president has not been willing to keep hunter at a distance, so that is the nature of this relationship behind the scenes at the white house. there is said to be some frustration that this did not end the way that it was expected to end just a few weeks ago. >> jessica dean, to kayla's point there's a political backdrop. the former president is facing four trials, right? there are allegations on the hull that biden, though they presented no public evidence of this, was somehow involved in hunter biden's business dealings, so you have republicans claiming there's a two-tiered system. you're trying our president in a way you're not trying. but the fact is this is the first time the justice department has ever charged the sop of a sitting president, and it happens to be joe biden's sone. do you believe that politics intervened from the other direction, that the doj or the special counsel or david weiss, the prosecutor, felt political

pressure that the deal that they made and were signed on to was too soft and, therefore, they had to go tougher? >> look, i think the doj and you all have followed this so closely, the doj, the attorney general have done everything they can to keep this as non-partisan as possible. they have tried to do that in a hyperpartisan world that we live in. >> true. >> everything has political implications. this, of course, has political implications for a variety of reasons. you'll remember our polling that just came out. 55% of americans believe that president biden acted inappropriately around the handling of this investigation into his son. again, as you mentioned, there's no evidence that the president has done anything wrong, but when you look at that and separate that out into democrats and republicans it tells a story that everyone is going to think exactly the story that we would expect, that democrats much smaller group of democrats think that that happened. it is the republicans a much larger swath of republican voters believe that president biden has acted inappropriately here, but the fact remains that

in a general election this is going to be an issue, and it is going to come up. i covered president biden's campaign in 2020 and it was already coming up. the hunter issue came up again and again and went back to what we're hearing that this is a president who loves his son and he's struggled, and the question is to voters is -- is the cake baked with biden in the sense that you already factored in hunter and you've made your decision on -- on how you feel like everybody has behaved there, or is this -- is this going to be a new layer? >> also, how do you compare the current legal troubles facing the former president biden if that is the choice in the end? >> right. >> there are allegations that you can make in public unproven, still make the allegations but to prove them in court is a separate issue. >> and the politics of this is playing out on capitol hill with kevin mccarthy and his impeachment inquiry. the white house is directing questions to doj, but there is some separation between how the white house has approached this very quietly. joe biden not talking about it

very publicly to the way hunter and his legal team have been approaching it. they have been certainly more aggressive. >> this has been fascinating to watch because earlier this year, the hunter biden legal team decided to take on a much more aggressive strategy and did this over objections from the white house. there are senior advisers in the biden white house who would prefer that hunter stake his licks, stay quiet and don't engage but it got to a point where hunter and one of his lawyers said, no, we don't want to do that anymore. we want to punch back. he brought on abby lowell and he's been working with longtime friend and lawyer. they have been firing off letters to the hill and they filed a white house against a former white house trump official who they accused of hacking into his iphone and the backup for his laptop. again, this is a -- it's not clear if it's going to be successful, but this is a much more aggressive forward-leaning

strategy. it makes waves. it makes headlines, and it makes some people at the white house a little crazy. they would prefer that this not be the approach, but hunter biden and his team said we need to do something, can't just sit here so this has caused tension with some white house advisers, but, again, every source that i've spoken with and our colleagues have spoken with all agreed that the president and his son are extremely close and he has his support, but the people around the president, they are not so sure about this. >> the president lost his other son. >> yeah. >> you know. i mean, it's just one of the many factors you have to throw into that relationship. >> i want to get back to evan. evan, bringing you back into this conversation. let's remind ourselves how long this has taken, right? five years. >> right. >> no, i think that's actually a huge factor in why you see so much -- so much drama around this investigation, right? this is an investigation that began -- this is now the third -- the third attorney

general that is having to deal with this investigation. it began before bill barr took office under the trump administration. he is the up that decided that david weiss, you know, was going to keep this case. there were different aspects of this investigation that were other jurisdictions, and he decided near the end of the administration -- of the trump administration that david weiss, the u.s. attorney in delaware, was going to keep this investigation, and, of course, when joe biden took office, he let david weiss stay in his -- in his position in order to -- to help oversee this. so here we are, again, five years after this investigation began, and this is the first actual criminal charge we're seeing, and one of the things that -- one of the reasons why you see so much frustration and why you now have the whistle-blowers who have been talking to republicans on capitol hill is the frustration of why this investigation has taken -- this is not that complicated. you know, this certainly --

certainly this gun charge, if you wanted to bring it, could you have brought it, you know, a couple of years ago when certainly cnn we reported two years ago that this was part of the consideration of what was being looked at, so we knew that this was being done, and yet here we are just days before they really had the deadline to bring it is when david weiss, the special counsel, the now special counsel, is bringing it. that's going to be part of the story that you are going to see play out over the next coming months as republicans begin their inquiry trying to figure out or trying to find evidence that they believe exists, that ties the sitting president to some of the dealings of his son and other members of his family. what you're going to see a lot of, of litigation and certainly a lot of testimony from people inside and behind the scenes is the infighting that has opinion going on behind the scenes, the sort of disagreements about this

case and why it has stretched out to five years. a lot of times the criticism of the justice department is that you have a lot of lawyers there who are hesitant to make big decisions or major decisions because they don't want to get criticized and then they punt these things down the road, and that's a criticism you hear a lot, and i think you're going hear that a lot more going forward because there is really no good answer as to why this has taken five years. >> and on that question, let's take a step back. david weiss, the u.s. attorney, has been a figure of intense focus, of intense scrutiny during the entire investigation. he reportedly appeared to be willing, according to the "new york times," to end the hunter biden probe with no charges earlier this year and then things changed. walk us through the entire process to where we are now. >> reporter: right. i mean, this investigation has been under w for five years and

it was wide-ranging. you know, there is some back and forth -- what has come out through come of the testimony of agents that were working on this case, that have given tim to house committees in which they talk about meetings and discussions about how and where to bring these charges and that one of the issues, that you know, they had the irs which investigates tax crimes, they wanted david weiss to bring felony tax evasion charges, and they also recommended some misdemeanor tax charges. you know, that has evolved as there often is. there's disputes and back and forth between investigators and prosecutors about what they can prove, and then there was also presentations to the main justice and the tax division which generally, you know, sees every tax case because they want a consistency in how the tax laws are applied to citizens, so there was some skepticism, some pushing back as we have reported about the strength of the evidence in this case on -- on

the tax charges and that there were, you know, questions about how this was going to be resolved. i mean, this investigation was very -- it was under investigation for a long time. it seems as if there was a lot of debate about how to get to the finish line and whether they would bring a case of the ultimately they did believe it a they could bring a case and there were plea negotiations that got under way. part of what we've been discussing is because of the nature of their charges, that he's paid back $2 million in the taxes, is that sufficient before it's criminally handled? and then there's the constitutional issues that have risen more recently. these are all parts of the factors that were under discussion and under the table and a deal was struck that everyone agreed to and own when it was under scrutiny before a charge who asked a lot of questions we both the deals, did

hunter biden real understand that he would have immunity from in terms of prosecution because the question was essentially, you know, if there is a change in administration and a new justice department, how far back could they look at hunter biden, what was he really going to be protected on under this deal? there were questions there. it seemed like it had fallen apart. the justice department and hunter's team came back together in agreement on what this deal would be and the deal said she wouldn't approve it because she had concerns about the constitutionality of the gun dole as well as the scope of the immunity that he would receive and the structure of the tax deal. i mean, then from there, you know, as we've been talking about, there was no agreement between hunter biden's team and the depart of justice about how they would try to renegotiate what was on the table in terms of taxes and guns and david weiss, a trump appointee who has been overseeing this investigation from the start, he then went to merrick garland, the attorney general, asked for

special counsel status saying that he had reached the stage where that was necessary. one of the questions here has been jurisdiction. where did you bring this case in the gun was purchased in delaware. that was squarely in the delaware u.s. attorney's jurisdiction and then the question of taxes, you know, it would either be l.a. or washington, d.c. where hunter biden lived and where his taxes were filed and that was a question of how that would be brought. i mean, when it was negotiated, that was an issue that they negotiated away, that didn't matter, but this is the next stage of the investigation of where will the tax charges be brought and the special counsel at weiss' office do look like they are going to bring but what exactly will they charge? one thing we see from the indictment today, the plea deal essentially on the gun charge is no prosecution is part of the diversion agreement, it was just on the poe serbs and today hunt irbiden is indicted on three counts, two counts related to false statement, one on the form

that he filled out saying that he was not addicted or a user of a controlled substance, in this case crack cocaine and a false statement that he made to the gun dealer in which he made that same affirmation. the third count being that he possessed while he was an addict and, you know, this charge here is from october of 2018. he held this gun for 11 days, and at the time hunter boyden has been open about that he was using drug, you know. he wrote in his memoir about his drug use, so those are the three charges that he's facing ranging from a maximum of five years in prison and one of the counts to a maximum of ten years in prison on two of the counts so certainly serious charges, boris. >> paula, a lot of allegations are going to get mixed up in the same pot here, right? a prosecutor has charged on gun charges here, has not made a decision on whether to charge on the tax charges, may very well be heading in that direction. republicans are alleging that president joe biden is involved in bribery and business dealings

with hunter biden. there's been no public evidence presented yet. what have prosecutors and investigators found that we're aware of that tie hunter biden to the current president of the united states, right? because what we're going to hear and is hearing already is a merging of all these various allegations regardless of what the facts show. >> at this point there is no evidence from the justice department that has been put forth to suggest there is a connection between the president and his son and his business dealings. now this investigation went on for five years. they looked at a lot of different things. for a time they did look at questions of possible foreign lobbying, things like that and when they came to have to decide on what charges they were going to bring to potentially pursue this plea deal, they believed the strongest case, the case that they could support with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt if it went to trial would be the tax charges and then they are diverting this gun charge, and i think as many have said you have to look at this and say

whether this case would be brought against anyone else and hunter biden's attorneys believe it would not. they believe for a person who failed to pay their taxes for the first time and paid them back with penalty and fees, that that is not a criminal federal prosecution that would be brought against other people. >> yeah. >> the gun charge, it's really interesting to watch how that is changing almost in realtime because the fifth circuit recently ruled on this issue something that hunter biden's legal team was watching very closely that people with prior drug use should not necessarily be barred from owning a firearm, and they believe that if that ever went to trial that they would be able to win it. laws that expand gun rights, something his father hat fought against, could actually end up helping his son here. but they would argue to me, they have argument to me, that this is not a case that would have been brought against anyone else but when a trump -- appointed prosecutor came to present his case, the plea deal he had was

focused on tax crimes and a gun charge, neither one of which had nothing do with president biden. >> for a time, the prosecutor agreed or at least made a deal that would not have led to charges here. for a time. >> yes. >> and the judge said not good enough and they went back. >> proceed guilty to it. >> yes. >> interesting we just got word that james comer who is the republican chair of the house oversight committee has called the charges a smart start which is pretty -- pardon me. can you repeat it in my ear, a small start? yeah, a small start i believe is what -- >> correct me if i'm wrong. >> well it matters and it really does matter because republicans have been very critical of david weiss, right? let's remember he's truffle-appointed, he stayed on, but at the same time -- and there have been some questions i think of timing and when he decided to ask for special counsel status, but there's also

been this need of republicans to kind of not like david weiss for their purposes, their political purposes, and they -- this isn't satisfactory. his whole approach is not satisfactory to them as they are the ones pursuing this impeachment inquiry. >> after they asked for well over a year i think, months and months and months, for a special counsel, and then they get that, and it's not -- it's not enough. you know, we heard there were a number of republican senators that signed a letter that were asking for this, and then as soon that is was granted to david weiss it was like, well, this is terrible as well, so, yes, they -- it's never quite been enough to your point, brianna, and that is -- look, they continue to push forward with this, as my colleagues on the hill have been reporting with this impeachment inquiry and where they are trying to go with this and they believe this is what they should be doing right now, but the bottom line is we're hearing that the biden team -- hunter biden's team

thinks no other person would be prosecuted and republicans are saying it's not enough. they should have gone further here so there is a lot of politics, especially on the hill. >> we could look at the record. >> you could look at how many charges there are filed for the cases like this. we've asked our lawyers and they say that generally no, but there are cases so there's a record. >> let's get more of a political perspective with two former congressmen, congressman charlie didn't and francis rooney. congressman didn't, to you, as a former republican congressman, we just heard jessica dean point out how hunter biden has become like a pinata for congressional republicans. what do you make of these latest developments? >> well, this whole hunter biden situation is a hot mess politically i think for president biden. look, i think republicans have to be really careful with this. i think they have to watch that they don't overplay their hand. i mean, if the issue is -- they have a great political issue with hunter biden. you know, i'm not going to say this is an issue that's going to drive voters in the upcoming presidential election, but, you

know, with the $80,000 a month on the gas company board, you know, the dealings with china, the shell companies and now all these charges, there might be foreign agent registration issues, fara issues so this is a real mess, but at the same time i think a lot of voters also look at the biden family in context and they will say, yeah, he lost his wife and his daughter decades ago in a terrible car accident. he lost his son beau to cancer and now has had a son who admittedly has had substance abuse issues so there might be sympathy there, too, so republicans need to be really careful. i think they made a mistake going down the impeachment inquiry path. i don't think that's going to help them because they haven't tied any of this to joe biden directly, but hunter biden will be a pinata for the gop, and i suspect that this is something that the democrats would rather not be talking about. it's out there now that he's been charged. >> they are hoping as they whack this pinata that joe biden comes out of it is what they are hoping. so far that's not been the case. congressman rooney, you know,

what do you think? >> well, i think as usual they are jumping into specific charges which are not nearly as important as the larger scale issue that charlie referred to which is the slimy influence peddling of hunter biden and whether any of that slime rubs off on the president. none of it has of yet, but i've been on the board of four oil companies and i've never made more than one-third what they paid hunter biden in the ukraine so it was definitely influence pedling. i understand that there have been numerous phone calls and visits with biden, not talking about business, but that's influence peddling to me, and i think that's what the republicans ought to be going after. >> i think you really hit the nail on the head. look, even during the obama years you saw there were officials in the obama white house raising questions about some of the activities of hunter biden, not nicely because they were illegal but the appearance

of them that they were so terrible and that's something that's definitely something that he may have had to reckon with him. they were then concerned about, congressman, and they are concerned about now you see it washing up on the shores of this administration. >> there's a can none of legal ethics, avoid even the appearance of impropriety and i think that's a standard we ought to be able to hold our highest elections officials to, but we don't. >> we certainly don't with members of congress who buy and sell stocks and there's been allegations and some prosecutions of acting on insider information and with the children of presidents, if you bridge the administrations going back to the trump administration, we know there's been a whole host of activity by children with financial implications, right, whether ethical or not, i'll leave that to the experts. >> not the obama administration and not any bush administrations just recently. >> just talking about the most recent two. michael moore is with us as well i believe, and michael, trying

to defer back to the lawyers where i can here because a very basic question. i asked this of jennifer rodgers and i'm just curious in your experience, would you or i or folks watching who did something similar here be likely to face charges like this? how often are these -- these both deal with lying on an atf statement when you buy a firearm and also being a prohibited person, someone currently use illicit drugs when they purchase that firearm, how often are those things charged? >> well, i'm glad to be with you all. i don't think you would have seen this very often, and we didn't use it very often in this kind of case. i mean, the facts obviously dictate, the charging decisions on each individual circumstance and the facts of this case are not compelling for bringing the charge of i mean, sometimes you might use the gun charge in connection with other crimes that you're charging but somehow to go out and suggest at at particular time that you said

something that was wrong and had it for a short amount of time. that was not a situation where you had a convicted felon in possession of a gun. that esa totally different case than it is filling out a form like the questionnaire and whether or not it's time he was using drugs or addicted to drugs at the time which i gives some room, a little bit of a squishy answer perhaps at that particular moment he filled out the questionnaire. we just wouldn't have done it. so it is in fact the law. that's -- that's the truth but most of the time we spent the resources we had and were always looking for more resources. we were looking for things like child sex traffickers, whether or not there were civil rights violations, those types of cases where i think the money of the federal government is -- is better spent. i have more concern i think about the nexus and the status of the case given that there was an agreement to resolve all the charges. >> yeah. >> and then suddenly the case was brought back to life. lawyers don't like that to do that because it certainly weighs

on your credibility as you deal with other lawyers in the future and whether or not they can count on your word and so i think that -- that will be an issue that will be raised later. >> obviously, there are the legal implications. let's see-saw back to the political implications. we have cnn's kiss trend holmes with us who is in frequent communication with folks in donald trump's camp. kristen, is it fair to stay that the trump campaign is happy to now conflate hunter biden's ongoing legal saga with what the president is facing in congress and impeachment inquiry? >> two things going on. one have you to know. of course, they will be somewhat happy about this decision to indict hunter biden. they think it makes joe biden look bad and everything they do is political, but other part is the argument that they have been making for over a year, really since donald trump was in office, particularly lately on all these legal challenges which is that it's a two-tiered justice system that. it's unfair, that the only

reason the department of justice is indicting trump and these multiple investigations is because of the fact that he is running for president. he called various district attorneys democrats and saying that this is all partisan. this takes away from that argument. what i'm watching for now is to see how exactly they manage to square this indictment with what is happening with donald trump, and the argument they have really been making for two years. if they are indicting the son of joe biden, does that mean that they are not politically motivated? those are the questions that they are going to have to answer now, and that's what people are going to push back. well, they indicted hunter biden, you've been saying this is election interference. you're saying because hunter biden has not been indicted and donald trump has, that this is unfair political and that joe biden is pulling all of the strings when it comes to the department of justice. the other thing i want to point out here. it's not just donald trump. it is republicans as a whole. when we talk to so many republicans, members in the house, they talk about the

department of justice as though it is the deep state, that it is independent and rogue. it's interesting here to see how exactly they are going to marry this, because, again, they say it's run by democrats. i think what you're going end up hearing is what we heard from representative comb ker, that this is a small start, incremental responses here, but this is years of messaging that they are now going have to figure out how to rewrite because the messaging has been that this is only happening to donald trump because it is political. now you are seeing it happen on the other side, and they are going to have to navigate that. as we know, donald trump, we're not talking about just legal options here, legal ramifications, legal challenges that his team is making, we're talking about the court of public opinion which is where donald trump likes to play in, and that's the argument that he has been making for years. >> i do want to bring in former congressman charlie didn't and francis rooney back into the conversation. congressman reason, i mean, the political part of this, that's what it's about for republicans

obviously. this is about 2024 has they are trying to draw links to the president that's so far not here, that are really not here that we're not seeing. at what point do you think this sticks, and how much do you think it's already sticking? >> well, you know, they have a habit of outrunning their skis. i mean, this impeachment thing as charlie alluded to, i think he's absolutely correct is not a good move for a variety of reasons. they don't have anything. they got three committees working on all of this. if they can't figure it out and get the evidence out to the american people, why have one more process to do it? it makes us wonder why they have house committees in the first place if they can't get their job done. that's a separate question. the other thing, is you know, swing districts, you know. as paul ryan used to say, hard core conservative districts knock the rinos and things like that and without the ri nos you won't have a ma skwlort and charlie can speak to that because he was from a swing

district and i was from the other kind. they have just put a lot of republicans in some serious jeopardy i think. >> wharly, what do you think? >> house republicans represent districts joe biden won so at least with respect to the impeachment inquiry this is terrible for those members because they are getting hammered every which way. they are getting called in their offices right now from the right saying, you know, you're a rino a squish, a bed wetter, don't have the votes, getting calls from the left saying you're a maga republican. they are in a terrible situation. they don't want to be talking about any of this, a lot of swing district republicans. this is just bad for them. what i arlgded, hunter biden, it's a bit of a sideshow. yes, this whole thing is mal odorous and speaks to influence peddling which is very bad for biden. do you think that's an issue driving this election? i don't think so. if you're trying to draw a contrast with donald trump who is very corrupt and ethically

and legally challenged and you've got this the situation with hunter biden that certainly muddies the water. again, republicans always have this problem of overplaying their hand on these investigations, whether it was benghazi, fast and furious, the clinton impeachment, and now here we are again with the hunter biden situation. they don't know how to take a political issue and use it. i mean, it's mal odorous enough with all the money from the gas company and the chinese business dealings. that's all they have to talk about. they don't have to go down the impeachment road but that's what they have done and it's not going to help them in the elections. >> congressman rooney, devil's advocate question here, and you know better than me given your political experience. it may not pay off in the voting booth, right, but -- but it may succeed in creating a reality, right? we saw that with the false claims about the stolen 2020 election. most republicans believe that today, you know. that lie has worked. doesn't look like it paid off in the mid-terms in 2022.

we'll see what it does in 2024, but does this successfully halt least create a reality that if not minds of some republican voters, and we see this in the polling, right that, there's a two-tiered justice department system or legal system here, right, that at least that skepticism is now -- is now baked in. >> well, i don't think they can count because what they have got, these things that you're talking about, these trends have created a very hard 35% bloc that can probably make sure trump gets the nomination or something but makes it very difficult to reach across and care the middle of the road people like charlie didn't's used to, that george bush carried and ronald reagan carried, and you can't get there with just the hard core fanatics. if it were me, i'd be talking about magan ho m you cans in a really good way and ignoring the fact that trump was the messenger because that's defective but i would be talking about how our national debt, our interest rate, our inflation and

our unemployment were lower before january 2021 than they are right now. that's the kind of argument that they ought to be making. >> i want to share with you a statement we just got from republican congressman andy biggs. he says, quote, the hunter biden indictment on federal gun charges is a move to make you think that the doj is fair. don't familiar for it. they are trying to protect him from way more serious charges coming his way. we can debate the potential for more serious charges. in fact, i wanted to ask evan perez if he's still with us about that. we know that special counsel david weiss is considering charges on tax-related issues, but i recall that one of the reasons that the plea deal for hunter biden fell apart is because there was disagreement between the prosecution and the defense over the potential for additional charges, specifically on the question of hunter biden acting as a foreign agent. do we know what other charges the special counsel might be investigating beyond the question of tax evasion? >> we don't, boris.

at this point we do not know. look, a special counsel, that's one -- that's one of the things that you always worry. certainly if you're on the receiving end of one of these investigations, if you're on the receiving end of a special counsel, you're always worried that they may spend time and additional resources trying to find things for -- you know, essentially for the reason that they exist, right, to come up with things, and so that's always one of the -- one of the concerns if you're on the receiving end of this. that's one of the reasons why donald trump was so mad about a special counsel being assigned to -- to look into his affairs. so we don't know whether david weiss is going to look beyond this. we do know that this has been an investigation that, again, over five years has gone all over. has looked at -- at the entire waterfront. they have looked at, again, the foreign lobbying allegations, and i should note that the -- that the foreign lobbying aspect of this was looked at by the fbi.

this was part of their investigation, and at end the -- the prosecution decided that there just wasn't enough there, and that's one of the reasons why that fell away. to me it was a bit of a surprise when -- when one of the prosecutors stood up before the judge in delaware and said that that was still a thing that was hanging in the air, right, and so certainly because everything that we've heard from our reporting is that that is not likely to add up to much in the end. we don't know what else could be -- could be looked at. certainly what the wording of the appointment letter for david weiss makes clear that he can look at crimes that are related to the ones that were already being investigated, and so that could be a lot of things. that could be -- again, just speculating here, but it could include things related to other members of the family who were involved with hunter biden's business dealings. we know that one of the -- one of the sitting president's brothers was involved in some of his business dealings, so, look, if you're the special counsel,

those are the things that you under the law and certainly under the rules you can start looking at. we don't have any indication that that's the case, but it is -- obviously this is something that i think republicans believe. they want more investigation. they think that there's more to find and certainly the investigation that we know that has looked at -- has been looked at for five years has gone over all of these things and arrived at in the end that -- that the things that they could bring were the tax charges and, of course, the -- the gun case. i should note that even for the tax cases, there are things that have expired for the statute of limitations, so because this thing has gone on so long, there are certain things that were being investigated that they can no longer charge because the statute of limitations in some cases for tax cases are six years. other crimes, other potential crimes, alleged crimes, could be five years, so some of those things have expired.

as a matter of fact, if they are going to bring the tax cases that we know they are looking at, they need to move quickly because some of those might expire as soon as three weeks from now in october. so that's one of the reasons why we certainly don't know what else david weiss could be doing, but if does beg the question because they have looked at every single thing that we -- at least from our knowledge, and this is where they have arrived. now, i should note that if you look at the testimony from some of the whistle-blowers, these irs agents, they think that they were prevented from looking into other things, including looking more closely at then vice president biden, now president biden. they believe that they should have been allowed to look at that stuff. i don't know whether there's anything there hand whether that stuff is even something that they could bring charges on right now. >> and that's something that some republicans, even republicans like nancy mace who

said they are concerned about where this whole thing will go politically, hope that this inquiry is going to lead them in the direction of that kind of data. we will see. evan, stay with us. everyone, if you could stay with us as well here on "cnn news central." ahead, we'll have more on our breaking news. the justice department indicting hunter biden, the president's son, on three gun-related charges. this is the first time in u.s. history that the doj has filed charges against the son of a sitting president. we'll have much more after a quick break. runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their r dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dodog, they often say that it feels s like magic. but therere's no magic involve. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. ♪

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we have breaking news into cnn. hunter biden, president's son, has opinion indicted on three gun charges. federal prosecutors charge hunter biden with two counts for alleged false statements he made while purchasing a gun and a third count for possessing the gun while he admitted in a biography that he was addicted to drugs. we have an entire team tracking this story for us now. let's get a breakdown of the latest information coming from the special counsel. there was a deadline looming to file these charges, and now they are here. obviously it's an historic move by the doj. >> yeah, boris. i mean, this is the first time a

president's son or a president's child has been indicted on federal charges, and here special counsel david weiss' team has announced the filing of this throw-count indictment and two of the counts you said relate to making false statements on the forms that hunter biden filled out when he purchased this revolver in delaware in 2018. one of those was lying on the form tore saying that he was not addicted to a controlled substance at the time that he made this purchase, and the other, a second count on false statements relates to the filings -- the similar false statements made to the dearly of the gun who he bought the gun from. now the third count is another felony count where hunter biden was possessing this gun while addicted to crack cocaine, and he possessed this gun for about 11 days in october of 2018. now they had reached a deal where hunter biden would have avoided prosecution on a gun possession charge if he abided by certain conditions such as not using drugs or buying another gun over a 24-month

period that. part of this -- this broader deal that he had reached with the justice department had collapsed upped the scrutiny of a federal judge who raised questions about whether it was constitutional. now both sides went back to the drawing board, the justice department and hunter biden's team here, trying to renegotiate, but they ultimately didn't make a deal. instead, the u.s. attorney david weiss, a trump appointee, had asked the attorney general merrick garland to elevate him to special counsel status which would give him additional powers. that granted, and then the prosecutors from his office came to court and said that they would be bringing this gun charge because of issues about speedy trial and other matters before the end of september, so here we are today with the new indictment being filed. now, the big question here though is hunter biden's lawyers have already signal that had they believe that that deal they reached was still binding. biden was complying with it and meeting with the probation department as part of this arrangement so they are clearly signalling that they think that the doj was prohibited from

bringing new charges. we've yet to hear any charges from the biden camp yet since this indictment hit the docket about an hour and a half ago. you know, there is this question of tax charges. special counsel's weiss' team look like they are moving forward to bring certain tax charges. we don't know exactly how they will be fashioned. they did have a deal for misdemeanor. they are also -- they could also bring federal tax evasion charges. those are all possibilities on the table and that those charges would be brought, something that would take place in either washington, d.c. or california where there is -- where the alleged crimes would have taken place. so today is one strep in this broad investigation, but it's not over for hunter biden. we also still don't know when he'll make his first appearance that. has not been decided yet, but he will be facing these three charges that carry some serious prison time if convicted. jim? >> as we noted. >> we're already five years into this. kayla tausche is at the white house now. kayla, i understand president biden is going to speak soon.

>> he is. president biden just arriving in prince george's county maryland where he had planned to give a speech on bidenomics and the goal was to establish counterprogramming of sorts, to what they saw as a sideshow on capitol hill, as republicans launched an official impeachment inquiry and were barreling towards a government shutdown in just 16 days, but now the split screen will be one that the white house had not anticipated and certainly does not want. the split screen between the president delivering a speech on his policy platform against the backdrop of this indictment, against the president's son. the white house has referred all questions, all inquiries to the department of justice and to hunter's personal legal representatives noting that this is an independent investigation and one of a personal nature. the white house has engaged on this topic, it's began to great lengths to point out that david

weiss was first appointed to his role in delaware by former president donald trump and that the five-year nature of the investigation means that they turned over every stone possible and that it was conducted in a fair and independent manner. of course, that was largely when the investigation was going to result in a plea deal, and there was a sense of relief by the white house, according to sources that i've spoken with, that this situation was expected to be tied up neatly with a bow several weeks ago. that before the plea deal fell apart, and certainly there's been some consternation behind the scenes as there was a lot of uncertainty about exactly how this would go for the president's son who has continued to keep incredibly close and a member of his inner circle and has not shied away from appearing with hunter publicly. we're still awaiting for the president in maryland. we're awaiting further word from the president's inner circle about exactly how he's feeling and reacting to this news. this is certainly not the image that the white house hoped for today.

>> kayla tausche, thanks so much. >> yeah. let's talk about that split screen that kayla was describing about what's going on with president biden, the impeachment inquiry happening with his son hunter and all of donald trump's legal woes because, paula, part of this, part of the impeachment inquiry certainly, has donald trump's fingerprints on it. i think republicans are eager to muddy the water when it comes to hint's legal issues and anything related potentially without evidence so far to the president. >> this is in the political arena as opposed to the internet is littered with images of the president's son engaging in what i would say deprave acts. he went through a time where he was addicted to drugs, engaged with prostitutes, holding weapons, posing for photos for all of this. those are all over the

interfete. sometimes it's easy to conflate those photos with the evidence that criminal prosecutors believe can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. and after investigating for five years, they were only willing to sort of engage in a plea deal for tax charges and potential gun charges that a lot of experts have suggested would not necessarily be brought against anyone. they are not commonly bought and his team could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. so there's no doubt this is a deeply flawed person, and there are photos everywhere that politically most voters would look at that and say of course this guy would do something wrong, ew. this is what they came up with, tax charges and a gun charge. >> there's a difference between scandal and crime. that's simply a fact. >> but you have to make sure if you're the biden re-election team, that you're able to make that point, that this is different. and, look, and trump team wants to play this out as kristen holmes noted in the court of public opinion, and that is

different than what wul is talking about, the legal barriers and what you have to rise to meet there versus all you have to do with voters is shake it up just enough that they're confused about it or they just get an kind of feeling and that is enough to sway some voters. >> most voters don't know he's been investigating for five years. they've turned over every single rock under the trump administration. most people don't know. >> you'll hear republicans say there still, though, needs to be more investigation, we do not trust the process. and so you have republicans and trump saying we are looking, we believe there is but they haven't found it yet links between hunter biden and joe biden. the thing to your point, jessica, even if they don't find that, there is utility for all of this for them as they look towards this impeachment inquiry which is now becoming entangled

certainly at least politically with what we're seeing here. >> you read the statement from andy biggs, the congressman, and we started tosee this esmessaging they're going to start to telegraph, which is so far the doj has been prosecuting only republicans. it's unfair they're coming after republicans. we've heard that from almost all the 2024 presidential candidates on the campaign trail in one way or another. but now this is happening just wait, this is to protect him. we are going to see an evolution of that language. that is something we hear from most of the candidates. >> you have to hold them to account. boss they move the goal posts repeatedly and now made a deal, the sweetheart deal and the deal collapsed and now they're actually charging him. michael moore, i'm going to go back to your sage legal analysis because there's another issue here which relates to the gun charge, and one of our reporters

referenced earlier he's being charged under because it's not clear that gun statute is going to pass muster with the current make-up of the supreme court. last month the new orleans based supreme court struck down this saying it violated the second amendment, this case involving a man convicted under it in 2022. that appeals decision says in short it supports some limits on an intoxicated person's right to carry a weapon but not disarm a citizen based solely on his esexclusive past use -- i wonder does it apply pressure for prosecutors to charge now, and will it stand up in the supreme court if it goes down the line? >> it may have some kind of pressure though i don't know it was justified in this case. the question is whether or not as he filled out his form as he was buying this gun and it said are you addicted to drugs, using

drugs today basically and he said, no. i want you to back up for a minute and think about it's like asking someone with a drinking problem are you an alcoholic or have a drinking problem, and they may say no because they don't believe they do. so the question is at the time he filled it out, was he addicted to drugs? and i think that's going to be a tougher thing to prove. so there is the second amendment challenge. there's an evidence challenge that will be made whether or not there's sufficient evidence to convict him of the crime. a prosecutor has to do two things. number one, you can't look like you're going too hard on somebody because of who they are. you can't look like you're going too soft on somebody because of who they are. here he's being charged with things you would not typically see in a prosecution. this is not a case he was a convicted felon, he's used a gun in a dangerous way, he's been

adjudicated of some crime in a bank robbery. this is not that kind of case which would certainly mandate and call for some intervention. this is different. so if you look at it you have to question why this case -- is it because he's the president's son? when you take that and couple it with the fact this prosecution was not commenced until now after the special counsel was criticized about it by republicans on the hill, you have to question was that the motivation as opposed to what the evidence was in the case, and it starts to smell at least like a political prosecution. whether or not it is, i think this is the appropriate time for mr. weiss to explain his decision making and if he wishes to do that. remember he's also a trump appointee. that doesn't mean anything other than he was appointed by a president. what does matter is because of these ongoing investigations, both the five-year investigation and the current change of status to special counsel, he gets to

extend his appointment, so he remains employed as a high level doj official because no democrat will remove him or ask that he be removed because it would look like it was a political pay back or retribution. he essentially insulated himself, and it's a good time to come and say i know this is not something we direct u.s. attorneys to do who are typically looking at terrorism and domestic terrorism and protecting america, protecting children, and protecting civil rights, those kinds of things. this is why i chose to use the course of this office in this particular instance, and i think that'll answer a lot of questions. >> to your point, what changed between when the prosecutor was willing to make that agreement and was politics. lisa's question, fair to ask whether politics was involved. >> we look forward to hearing from the special counsel. again, a historic moment in history. the department of justice

bringing charges against a sitting president's son for the first time. we are set to hear directly from president biden in just a few moments. we'll bring you his remarks from maryland when we come back. stay with us. and the snacack dad. all using chase to keep up withth their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she savedd for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. ♪ with fastsigns, brew signature flavor into every sip and sign. ♪ fastsigns. make your statement.

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