storm, we understand there have been bodies everywherech am it's been almost impossible to get help in. the storm had we also understand about 23-foot waves that came through. there had not been a warning across libya so people did not have a sense this was even coming, and this is what -- right, and this is what we have here right now. joumanna, again, she's now called in for the third or fourth time and i know it's frustrating for all of you as well it is for us but it does actually give us a sense of what's happening here, which is how difficult it is for anyone to get help, never mind being able to touch base with us. we're going to continue to try to reach her. she will be on this network later this hour. for now let's hand it off to "ac 360." tonight on "360" what happens now the president's last surviving son is now the first

son of a sitting president charged with a federal crime? in georgia the first gets a break that could help imin his trial there. and tonight meet the american caver who came close to death 3,000 feet underground. he told me about his dramatic rescue, when he plans to get underground when he recovers. good evening. thanks forgyning us. we begin with breaking news on a history making day. never before has a sitting president's child been indicted until now. early this afternoon we learned hunter biden had been charged in delaware by special counsel david weiss on three gun related counts. this follows the collapse of a plea deal as you know on those and other tax related offenses. it comes, of course, in the middle of a presidential campaign. and consider this, the same justice department now prosecuting president biden's son is also prosecuting president biden's leading opponent and new developments in one of his cases tonight, but we begin with hunter biden charges. cnn's kara scanel joins us now.

>> these are three felony charges and all relate to the purchase of a gun in 2018. specifically what hunter biden is charged with is making false statements on the atf form someone has to fill out to buy a gun. what prosecutors say was false is he checked the box saying he was not addicted to or using any illegal drugs. and hunter biden has written in a memoir he was addicted to using crack cocaine. the statements was given to the gun dealer and the third count he was charged with possessing the gun while using or being addict today the illegal drugs. so three serious counts, and as you say this is big reversal from what he had a deal where he would have avoided any prosecution on the gun charge if he had abided to certain condition. so what has changed since then is that, you know, there were questions there about that deal. the judge wasn't sure it was constitutional the way it was structured, and then a number of republicans have called it a sweetheart deal. they were very critical of it. after the judge said she wasn't

sure of it, she asked the prosecution and biden's team to see if they could amend it. then from there the u.s. attorney david weiss who was appointed by former president trump and stayed on, he then asked attorney general merrick garland to make him a special counsel. that happened and that's led us to this indictment today, anderson. >> what is hunter biden's legal team saying about it? >> abby lowell has pointed to the special counsel's team he says caving to political pressure. in a statement tonight he says evidence in this matter has not changed in the last six weeks, but the law has and so has maga republicans improperly and partisan interference in this process. hunt biden possessing an unloaded gun for 11 days was not a threat to public safety, but a prosecutor with all the power imaginable bending to political pressure presents a grave threat to our system of justice. we believe these charges are barred by the agreement prosecutors made with mr. biden, the recent rulings by several federal courts that this statute is unconstitutional, and the facts that he did violate that

law. and we plan to demonstrate all of that in court. so his team saying that they are going to be fighting these charges, anderson. >> and what are the next steps? >> so in this case the next step would be hunter biden to appear in court for the arraignment. he'll be asked to enter a plea on those charges. but also looming in the backdrop are the tax charges. he had that dealt where he would have pled guilty to two misdemeanor tax charge. that is off the table, and prosecutors plan to move with charges either in washington, d.c. or california where the alleged crimes took place. the question here is whether those will be felony charges, misdemeans or some combination. that is still looming, and the statute of limitations on one of those years is expected to run next month. otherwise we're looking at this case, this gun case could be heading to trial while hunter biden's father is seeking re-election. >> here with me now the former manhattan chief assistant district attorney, mark namera,

and andrew mccabe, former director of the fbi. what do you make of these charges? >> i think they had to bring this case because the statute of limitations was running, and when the deal fell apart it was either you walk away from it or you bring the case in order to preserve the status quo. i do think there'll be some significant legal hurdles they face by making the decision to bring this case, however. there's a real constitutional question about whether these charges can stick. there's at least one, potentially two appellate courts that aren't binding on delaware but that have already ruled this infringes on second amendment rights, and the supreme court has been -- has been saying some restrictions like this are potentially unconstitutional, different restrictions but restrictions on the seconds amendment nonetheless. so i think there are some legal hurdles this will face and i think some factual hurdles as well. i mean the prosecution still has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and that'll have to include, for example, he

was an addict at the time or that he was using drugs, you know, narcotics, controlled substance, all the items listed on that form during those 11 days or at the time of those 11 days, and i think it's going to have to prove that he was addicted to those types of drugs. >> has he already admitted that as part of a plea deal? >> well, he admitted aspects of that, yes. he said yes, but it's unclear whether that is admissible because it was part of a plea bargain. in fact, i think he has an argument to say he could enforce that. he entered a plea with the prosecution about that gun. the judge said why are you involving me in this. that was one of the issues that day is why are you involving me in this. this is unconstitutional for me to be involve. this is an agreement between the two of you and he had already started. he hay be able to say, look,

we'd already had an agreement and now you're backing down on that agreement. >> it is the first time the justice department has charged the child of sitting president. what kind of considerations would have gone into that decision? >> well, the fact he's the child of a sitting president shouldn't have any bearing on it. they should be looking at the facts and the law. nevertheless, there's always an element of prosecutorial discretion, and in this case on these facts it's a little bit hard to understand how they're seeing clear to drive those three significant felonies. the fact is people are very rarely ever prosecuted for unlawful possession of a weapon at the federal level if that weapon wasn't also involved in some underlying more serious crime. there was interesting reporting in "the washington post" today that looked at federal charges for where the lead defense is unlawful possession of a weapon from last october until last march. october 22 through march 23 on circumstances similar to this, when that charge is based on

simply a statement on the application that took place only in 3% of the almost 4,000 cases that were brought. so it raises some really serious questions about how they decided to apply these pretty serious charges on a fairly weak set of facts. >> mark, how strong of a case do you think it is? do you think it's weak? >> i think it's weak. i think it's very weak. it's starting to sound like an exam question where you have to consider the political side of it, the son of a president. then you look at crimes that literally in 40 years of doing this i'veceiver seen of anyone or heard of anyone charged with that criminal offense. again, firearm by a convicted felon, easy. easy to prove he's a convicted felon, but when you're going to try to prove something under this statute to say he was addicted at that time, and i think they are limited to those 11 days, it's going to be virtually impossible even though he talked about it in his memoir, even though it may have

been referenced in the plea agreement, which by the way i agree is probable enforceable and certainly going to be this argument of how can you use that information now against me. you know, i think mr. weiss is a great lawyer and a great prosecutor, but you can't deny there's been some political overtones to this because if the only variable that makes any sense as to why this one person would have been charged with a crime that i've never heard of being charged before. >> you said you've never heard of it in all 40 years you've been doing criminal defense? >> literally. and i was prosecutor for a couple of years doing criminal defense. i did federal work for i guess 36 of these years, and no, i've never heard of it. when you're in possession of a firearm and you're a nonconvicted felon or if is used in commission of a new offense, then they tack on the fact you had a gun. but, no, i have never seen someone who violated the 4473 i think it is, you fill out this

form to get a gun that say, hey, are you an illegal alien, no. hey, have you ever been addicted to drugs, truly i've never seen anyone answer that question yes. and i've never seen them prosecuted. >> karen, the constitutional battle about this you mentioned there's some irony in there because it's gun rights advocates who are -- those court cases have been in support of the second amendment, so the idea hunter biden's attorneys might be arguing something which i guess would go against the politics of his father. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean that's exactly right. and that's the thing if this goes all the way to the supreme court, you're going to have have the same supreme court that ruled last year basically saying the licensing scheme in new york was unconstitutional because it's too restrictive. it's interesting the direction of the supreme court has been to rule in favor of the second

amendment. and it'll be interesting to see it in this kind of situation what they will decide. >> and andrew, hunter biden's attorney told erin burnett last hour he thinks the charges violate the plea agreement made with the government. they did have this plea agreement. i guess it wasn't signed off by the probation department although i guess the probation department had agreed to it but hadn't actually signed it. is that where they hung being able to dismiss the plea agreement on? >> i'm not sure the position of the probation department would be dispositive here. i think the fact he's been complying with the agreement and having visits with a probation officer i think is a strong point on his side of the argumentmism i think the better argument against enforcing the agreement is the fact the judge never accepted it. so that one is really a ball in the air case. anderson, it's a tough one to call, but nevertheless it will be a significant issue at this

trial. and i think, you know, just to tail onto what karen said, the idea that president's son might -- and that's if he's convicted and chooses to appeal, his appeal could potentially lead to the dismantlement of the brady act, which has been the core of the federal efforts to keep guns out of the hands of people like convicted felons and people fleeing, you know, fugitives. it's just indauchlhensible but here we are. >> thanks so much. karen is going to stick around. i want to talk about today's big development in one of the four trump criminal cases. first, the conversation i had just before airtime with new york democratic congressman and former federal prosecutor dan goldman. >> you heard what hunter biden's attorney is staying. what do you think of this? >> well, look, it is a crime in

my ten years as a federal prosecutor i've never heard of being charged. the facts of it seemed to be he had a gun for 11 days and he lied in making that application for a gun, and that is the letter of the law. i am somewhat concerned as they are that they're -- that what changed the prosecutor's mind may have been some of the political influence. but at the end of the day, anderson, if hunter biden committed crimes, he should be held accountable for those. but those crimes and that investigation should remain in the department of justice in the court of law. hunter biden is not the president, and whether or not he committed crimes is not ground for an impeachment inquiry that we're now going into. and that is all that the house republicans have. they have no evidence linking joe biden in any way to hunter biden's business dealings. >> but just to be clear as a former federal prosecutor, are these charges you would have

brought? these are not charges commonly brought? >> they are -- i've never heard of this charge being brought. i understand it as occasionally brought here and there. but in the discretion -- i was in the southern district of new york. we -- we looked for felons who were in possession of guns. we did not look for people who were subject to substance abuse for 11 days in the possession of a gun. so this is unusual, and when you hear of the two-tiered justice system i would argue that hunter biden is getting worse -- the worst of it because his last name is biden, not the other way around. >> so as a democrat, are you concerned about this -- this indictment hurting the chances of the current president? >> no. i think that, you know, we as a democrat -- i as a democrat think that the department of justice needs to deal with criminal investigations on their

own without any political influence. and if hunter biden committed crimes, he should be held accountable. you don't hear republicans saying that if donald trump committed crimes, he should be held accountable. because we care about the rule of law. we care about our criminal justice process. we care about our democracy, and the republicans are purely political at this point. this impeachment inquiry is purely political theater designed to help donald trump's re-election in 2024. >> it's an impeachment inquiry, which the speaker has pointed out, but do you think it's inevitable that it'll be an impeachment? >> well, once the horse is out of the barn it's hard. because if they do not impeach him, that of course is an admission that their investigation was a total flop. it is a flop, and there's no basis to move from a standard

investigation into an a impeachment inquiry other than to kowtow to marjorie taylor greene and donald trump who want this impeachment. and so now we're going down this road based on no evidence that changed in the last several weeks, and they don't have anymore authority than they did before. so is different other than calling it an impeachment inquiry, but now it's turned into a very hyper-partisan and unfortunate political game they're playing when we're facing a shutdown in three weeks. >> do you think speaker mccarthy keeps his seat? >> i don't know. i cannot figure out what is going on with this republican party. you have the extreme fringe right of 20 or so people who do not acknowledge they're operating in a divided government with a democratic senate and a democratic president. and they think just because they want something that they should hold the entire government hostage to get everything they want, they're willing to go forward with a shutdown?

that's not the way anybody governs. you can't sit there and say it's my way or the highway especially when you're 20 out of 535 plus the president. >> congressman, thank you. >> thank you. next tonight how a judge's ruling today in georgia could make life easier for the former president's defense. and also the rescue efforts in libya with thousands dead and many thousands unaccounted for. (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... .in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence.

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visit jabraenhance.com so tonight the federal justice department is devoting two special counsel, several grand juries and countless lawyers and staff to prosecuting both the former president and current president's son. the cases obviously not comparable except for the fact the names trump and biden both appear on federal court dockets. in georgia today the former president appears to have gotten what could be a break from the presiding judge. cnn's paula reid joins us with the latest on the decision that could give the defense a sneak preview what they're up against. explain what the judge had to say about the former president's case. >> that's right. today the judge ordered two of the defendants in this case will go to trial in late october, but former president trump and the other 16 defendants, their trials will be pushed back. they may not even schedule them until later this year.

anderson, what that tells us unofficially is that the former president is unlikely to face trial in georgia before the 2024 election because the fulton county trial is expected to take between 4 and 8 months. if you look at the trials next year, there's no place to put a trial of that length. so now it is expected the former president will not face charges in georgia until at least after the 2024 election. but the fact that two defendants are going ahead in a few weeks, i mean that's not great for prosecutors because they're effectively going to preview their entire case for those other 17 defendants. >> that's if they can get a jury empanelled and ready. what's next for kenneth chesebro and sidney powell for their joint trial? >> to your point jury selection. the judge said today he expects jury selection to take about two weeks. again, the prosecutor says cites going to take four months. the judge says i don't know a case like this could take up to eight months.

they're working through right now some of the logistics, the administrative burden on the court. interestingly sidney powell's attorneys say they are seeking out certain messages that they believe would help their client and help to show her alleged effort in votings -- and breaching some voting systems in coffey county, georgia, that that was something she was directed to do. and anderson, i think we're going to see a lot of that over the next few months as some people take plea deals and you're going to see people pointing fingers. it's a rico case and 19 defendants. that's to be expected. >> the judge also appeared receptive to a motion from the defense. why did the defendants want to speak to them? >> they say they wanted to speak to the grand jury to find out more about what happened during those proceedings, witnesses, and in their words if this grand jury was really, quote, independent. prosecutors have expressed concerns because this grand jury has been through a lot. their names were published in the indictment. their identities, some of them have been published online. they've been doxed.

so they were concerned about opening them up to this. but the judge remember georgia's estate where they don't have much secrecy around grand juries, the judge said he would allow it, but they want defense attorneys to give him the questions, and any grand juror has to do so voluntarily. >> busy night for cnn analyst, and joining us former jordan state senator jim jordan who gave grand jury evidence in this case. karen, how significant is the former president that it's going to be officially severed, how important is that? >> i mean i think it was expected. i don't know anyone who didn't expect it. you can't force the 17 to go to trial as quickly as those who elected to have their speedy trial, but it does give him a preview of what the evidence will be. i think even more interesting will be his january 6th trial with a lot of the same witnesses will likely be going on at the same time as this 4 to 8-month trial in georgia. you could have witnesses testifying in georgia and then

flying to washington. >> wow. >> and so that will be i think an interesting -- an interesting thing about this happening the way it is. >> probably not flying on trump's plane, though, i imagine. how much of an advantage will the former president and 16 other defendants have in watching the powell and chesebro trial? >> look, there could be an advantage. at the end of the day the judge had to do this. there are due process concerns with making those that have these type of allegations against them go forward in a trial when they're not ready. there are -- i can't even remember the number of terabytes with respect to the discovery that's been turned over. so the judge understood that really, you know, if chesebro and powell wanted to do the -- you know, the speedy trial, that's fine, but he cannot force the others to do so. in fact, if he did that, he probably would be injecting error into the trial. >> how difficult, karen, is it

going to be for powell and chesebro to actually put on a defense so -- so quickly? >> i mean the facts are what they are. and yes, it's quickly they're putting on a defense, but it's not like the crime just happened. they've had years now, a cup of years to think about this. there's been lots of motion practice. there's been january 6th hearings, so it is quickly in terms of when the indictment was brought, but i do think the facts are what they are, and their defense is going to be what it's going to be, so i don't think it'll be that difficult. >> jim, what happens if the judge decides the group of 17 defendants just too big to try at once? would they be divided up into groups and tried at the same time before different judges is that the same thing? >> no, not before different judges. i think possibly what the judge could do is really look at the indictment and determine based on subject matter, right? so you have allegations that are around the communications, the call that trump made to raffensperger and then all the

communications to put pressure on different officials in georgia, that's kind of one kind of bucket of allegations. then you've got the coffey county allegations. that's another bucket. and then you have going after the election workers. that's another. so there really is a dividing line in terms of the subject matter of of the allegations, where the court could go with that, if that is what he chooses. but it really would be up to him ultimately at the end of the day, and i have no doubt that if he wanted to go down that road, that the -- that the defendants would go with him and agree to it because obviously they don't want to be all bunched in together either. and particularly they don't want to be with trump, right? >> how does it work, karen, if one witness on the stand -- do all the attorneys get to ask questions? >> yes, absolutely. if you say all 17 go to trial at once, you'll have 17 opening statements after you have the prosecution's opening statement if they choose to.

they don't have to, but this is what they could choose to do. and then it the prosecution puts on a witness and does the direct examination. and you could have 17 defendant attorneys cross examining those witnesses, and as a prosecutor i've done multiple defendant cases. i've done one with five defendants, and by the time the fifth defendant cross examined one of my witnesses, they'd forgotten the direct, and, you know, i'd lost anything i had gained because it had been so long, and that's part of a strategy. so it can really hurt a case, i think, if you have so many defense attorneys. but they could also agree to say you know what i'm not going to ask questions, this person doesn't have anything to do with my defendant, it doesn't hurt me, so i'm going to step aside and not ask questions. it sort of happens depending on stylistic and substantive decisions during the trial. >> karen, appreciate it. jim jordan, thanks so much. coming up former president trump gives an interview where he seems to suggest the impeachment for president biden is in retaliation for his own

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former president trump sat down for two new interviews. he told nbc's kristen welker that he did consider pardoning himself at the end of his administration. we'll play that in just a moment. the other was with former fox news host mag megan kelly at times a combative interview, their first since to16. at one point they relitigated a

republican debate and also this moment when the former president seems to suggest the impeachment inquiry into president biden was in retaliation for democrats impeaching him twice. >> i think had they not done it to me and i'm very popular in the region and they like me and i like them, the republican party. perhaps you vnt have it being done to them, and this is going to happen with the indictments too. >> joining me now to discuss is maggie haberman. he's basically admitting it's retribution and there'd be more retribution on indictments. >> it's not like he's been particularly subtle retribution would be coming if he comes back into office, but that is something people hope he would avoid saying around this biden impeachment inquiry because it does make it seem oisz less on the level and makes it harder for republicans going to get drag into this to sell this in districts. >> how much is he pulling the

strings on this impeachment stuff? you mentioned marjorie taylor greene he met in bedminster and he met with elise stefanik as well. >> our understanding is he's not aggressively twisting kevin mccarthy's arms. as you know he doesn't really have to do that sometimes. he can just toss out a suggestion or he can ask about it. and i think in some of the conversations it's been that way, but he's made very clear as he has publicly that he favors this. and, you know, he has going back several months, and i expect you'll hear more of it, but that was a -- a surprisingly candid statement that one person who is an ally of his described as a confession to me about an hour ago. >> i want to play something that trump said about self-pardoning. he told nbc he would think about it. let's play this. >> mr. president, if you were re-elected, would you pardon yourself?

>> i could have pardoned myself. you know what? i was given an option to pardon myself. people said would you like to pardon yourself. i had a couple of attorneys that said you can do it if you want. i had some people that said it would look bad if you do it because i think it would look terrible. let me just tell you i said the last thing i'd ever do is give myself a pardon. >> a self-pardon never been tested in court, but if he got back into office is there anything he would not try to do to avoid prosecution? >> i think what we have seen with this campaign so far he sees his freedom at stake, and so i would be really surprised if he got back into the office and said, yo know what i'm not going to try that. but we don't know what it will look like, what the cases will be. i'd be surprised if any of those lawyers were people actually employed by the office of the president as opposed to outside voices. >> he also spoke with megan kelly for her podcast about the incident that we all know about now where he was waving around

classified documents. let's play this. >> what were you waving around in that meeting because it certainly sounds like -- >> i'm not going to talk to you about that. i'm allowed today have those documents. >> but once you get a subpoena, you're supposed to turn them over. >> i know this. i have a right to have those documents so i don't really know that. >> do you believe every cia document that came to you as president was yours to keep no matter what. >> it's interesting he says i'm not going to talk about it but he does talk about it. >> as you and i know there are times he can't help but defend himself and that has been his defense to keep saying these are my documents, and he repeatedly says -- it is notable he's steering away from answering the question more fully. >> he rarely does that i'm not

going to answer that. >> he rarely does that unless he feels he's entering danger territory. he was more on guard in this interview than i think people realize. just in tonight a milestone in the wake of cnn's reporting on sexual assaults of the coast guard community covered up for years. richard blumenthal has just launched a former inquiry. the subcommittee now wants to see all documents from the coast guard's own investigation, details of which were kept under wraps until cnn began digging. coming up a top libyan official fears what he calls a high magnitude of deaths after this week's massive flood. that would be on top of the at least 5,000 people already believed to be dead. live report from the hardest hit area next. here, anywhere... ♪ ♪ i just want to lie motionleless in a chair! ♪ booking.com, bookiking.yeah ♪ ♪ somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi.

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david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education.

want to go for the latest on the massive flooding and the massive loss of life in derna in north eastern libya. i want to show you this report from cnn's ben wedemen. >> reporter: days after disaster struck derna they're still collecting the bodies. egyptian rescue workers lower one full body bag to the pavement and go back for another. the death toll is still unclear, but there's no doubt thousands were killed in the floods and thousands more remain missing. this survivor recounts what he

saw. the children died in front of my eyes. my neighbors died, he says. it feels like a nightmare. until this hour i still can't believe it. and the nightmare isn't over. the magnitude of this disaster is more than this doctor interviewed on libyan television can take. the numbers, he says, are awful. in a country consumed by years of conflict and hijacked by rival foreign powers, simple things like the weather service were neglected, says the head of the world meteorological organization. >> if there would have been a normally operating weather service they would have issued warnings, and also the emergency management would have been able to carry out evacuation of the people. >> reporter: in derna the authorities urge caution and imposed a curfew before the

storm, but there were no evacuations. and this is the result. ben wedemen, cnn, rome. >> there's been so much loss of life. the actual number at this point still really unclear. joumanna karadsheh from cnn has just arrived in the affected area. she's joining us now. joumanna, talk about where you are, what you've been able to see. joumanna, it's anderson. you're on the air. if you can hear me, talk about where you are and what you've been able to see. we're having trouble obviously with that connection. we'll try to re-establish it. obviously it is a very difficult situation on the ground there. as you can see just the devastation is all throughout the region there in north eastern libya particularly in derna. we'll have more on that.

also when we come back we're going to talk to an american caver named mark dickey who the video is just extraordinary. he started having internal bleeding when he was about 3,000 feet under the surface of the ground. 3,000 feet in a cave in turkey, had to get blood brought down to him. he thought he was going to die. i'll talk to him about his remarkable rescue ahead. with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long l lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache andnd nighttime pills. you know, these kids grow so fast, cherish every little moment you get with them. tyler, he's 10, and little day, he's 12. being a single dad, it is hard, really hard. i've been there nce day one. i know how it is, you know, not to have nothing. i don't really get paid much.

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as you may have heard an american caver named mark dickey spent more than a week trapped in a cave deep in turkey some 3,000 feet below the surface of the ground. dickey reportedly began suffering from gastrointestinal bleeding when he was more than as i said 3,000 feet underground, became too weak to make the journey back to the surface. a whole rescue operation of about 200 people were involved to get him out. dickey's condition became so severe at one point rescuers gave him transfusions while underground. we're happy to report that he survived. he's in much better condition, and he joins us tonight from the

hospital. mark, thank you for being here. i am so glad you're alive and in the light. i have been freaked out by this entire drama that you have been, imagining you so deep underground in these -- first of all, how are you feeling? >> i appreciate your asking. definitely feeling much, much better than i have been. you know, every single day steady improvements, and i hear you on the freaked out. it's a crazy thought to be that far underground just thinking about how much rock, earth, and just everything that's piled on top of you and how far away from the surface you are. so, yeah, freaked out a good term especially for when things started to go wrong. >> so when did things start to go wrong? how deep were you at that time? >> how deep was i at that time? i actually was even deeper in the cave. i wasn't at camp which is where i was stabilized for some time.

i was farther into the cave in a location i was exploring. i actually was with jessica. we were about to start climbing a lead. >> jessica is your partner. >> yep, that is my partner. >> and she's in the room with you. >> and we were both there. she is. >> hey, jessica. >> hello. >> and you had internal bleeding. what did you feel -- what did you feel was wrong? >> so it was -- it turned out to be internal bleeding, which i figured out after i got down on the ground. jessica got down behind me and she called out what do you need, and my response was just privacy, because unfortunately i was having -- i needed to go to the bathroom and it was a crazy fast on set, dizziness, nausea, hot and cold.

and the stool that came out was just black, tarry digested blood, and that was a -- that was a bad sign. >> so you realize you have internal bleeding and you're in trouble. jessica goes for supplies. it takes her -- was it 24 hours just to get out or 24 hours to get out and back? >> no, jessica, is spectacular. that was 24 hours for her to get out, coordinate a response, notify different organizations, get -- the medical supplies on the way, have them delivered to camp and then all the way back to me. no, she pulled off a miracle. >> did you think you might die down >> did you think you might die down there. >> it was a transitioning thought process. at first, it was, okay, this is pretty bad. i had no serious how bad it was. then it moved to, this doesn't

seem life threatening. i'm okay. and then the moment i started vomiting large volumes of blood, it was, this is life threatening, this is bad, i need serious assistance. and then the time period before jessica arrived was the roughest. there were -- i remember the transition, as my symptoms got worse, as my pulse was decreasing, as my blood pressure was decreasing, as it was harder to hold onto consciousness, yeah, i was in the range of, i'm probably going to die. >> and how long did it take for them to actually bring you physically out? >> so, once things started, i was very impressed by how quickly it went. there were virtually no breaks. i was transitioning from team to team. i would, maybe, rest for an hour or two in between one team, finishing transport the next

one, getting in, getting coordinated. that was a -- it was an interesting balance of, it's better to just keep moving, keep making that progress. but at the same time, it was taking a toll on me. i was already in really bad shape, and just that constant movement through the cave was rough. >> what was the moment like when -- was it day time when you got out, when you saw sun, when you breathed fresh air? >> it was not. my first sunrise was through the window of a hospital room actually after i got out of the icu. >> that's an even better place to see the sunrise frankly. >> i got to see the sunrise. yeah. it was nighttime, but trust me, up there on that plateau where there is absolutely no light pollution, those stars are -- they light things up. >> can you just -- just finally, can you just explain what is the appeal of it? i mean, i did, like, spe lunging

long ago, but going to these depths, what is it for you? what is the magic of it? >> that's always a question. every single person has their own drives. you know, it's -- in this case, i enjoy pushing the limits of human exploration. i'm never going to get to the moon. i'm never going to get to the bottom of the ocean. and other than those two, you're looking at caves. you're looking at caves being that final frontier where you're able to get to places no human has been before, see things that have never been seen, find species that are currently unknown, discover more things about the world. caving, for me, has that allure of you're pushing those human limits. not the limits necessarily of a physical standpoint. i'd much rather have a comfortable trip in, lots of

supplies. i'm not looking to push my body, but pushing what humans are doing. >> mark dickey, i'm so glad you are alive and on the road to recovery. and i'm so glad you got jessica because what she has put up with, i don't know what you're going to do to make it up to her. but seems like she's put up with a lot here. >> jessica, i owe you big time, don't i? >> mark dickey and jessica, thank you so much. i wish you the best. >> absolutely. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and just ahead, a new independent report that seeks to answer one of the biggest mysteries in the universe and explain encounters like this one. >> hey! got it! woo-hoo! ♪ ♪

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can be explained, but not all. the report follows a congressional hearing in july, as well as the official release of military videos like this one. >> hey! got it! woo-hoo! [ bleep ]. >> this was recorded by a u.s. navy plane in 2015. the encounter took place off the east coast. this one happened in 2004 off the coast of southern california. one of the pilots told us in her experience, whether people believe in extraterrestrials or not, they want answers. for that, nasa said it is directing its first director of uap research to collect more data. that's it for us. the news continues. i'll see you tomorrow night. "the source" with kaitlan "the source" with kaitlan collins starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, straight from "the source," the biden justice department indicts a biden, in the first charges ever against a sitting president's child.

we are also counting down tonight. when the clock strikes midnight, union workers could strike against the big three auto makers. it could upend not just the car industry, but the entire u.s. economy. plus a load of f bombs dropping on capitol hill as kevin mccarthy swears and dares the right flank to oust him. they just might take him up on it. i'm kaitlan collins and this is "the source." another historic indictment. not only is the biden justice department prosecuting former president donald trump in two separate cases, it is now also prosecuting the sitting president's son, indicting hunter biden on three criminal charges, all in connection with a gun that he purchased in 2018. the charges include two counts of lying on an atf form to buy that gun and possessing a firearm as a drug user. he allegedly lied about his drug use to buy a revolver in delaware, as he was strugg