it was the slap seen around the world when actor will smith struck comedian chris rock at the academy awards ceremony in 2022. longtime friend of rock, let's leave jones, tells people magazine that rock was so humiliated that he sought counseling with his two daughters who witnessed the attack as did chris rock's parents. smith slapped rock after a comedian made a joke about data pinkett smith's bald head which is caused by alopecia. do the backlash, will smith resigned from the academy as you may recall, which has barred him from the oscars for

ten years. that's it for me, cnn prime time with laura coates starts right now. he. laura >> a pam, nice to see everyone, good evening, i am laura coats. welcome to cnn tonight. we've got news on the trump legal front, including what may be a major case of foot in the mouth disease, everyone. now, he says that he didn't actually listen to his attorneys who told him that he lost the 2020 election because he did not actually respect them, which may turn into a very big problem, of course, for him in the court of law. not to mention in a possible second term i'll explain just why in a moment. plus, this is a step back everyone. new tonight, president biden is now framing's age as experience. something that he is not really shied away from talking about. >> i've been doing this long time, i know i don't look that old. [laughter] i'm a little under 103. i get it.

try being 110 and doing it again. think about it, think about it. i know i am 198 years old. >> i guess he is in, is it a political joke or not? well, geraldo rivera is here to weigh in tonight and the cofounder of rolling stone magazine has a new book that people are talking about. but, actually not in a good way. not even about the book, really his commentary. it has got interviews with a seven rock and roll geniuses from macgregor to john lennon to bruce springsteen, but not a single woman or person of color. now, his explanation for why he did that is adding fuel to the fire. we've got a lot of thoughts on that tonight as you can imagine, but let's begin with donald trump everyone because, well, oops. he did it again. there is a reason that lawyers tell their clients to stop talking. it's not just that whole you have a right to remain silencing, either. it is the next part that comes after that, that your words can

and will be used against you in the court of law and that goes for the words you say outside of the court of law as well, as things you might say on television. now, up until now, his lawyers had been falling on their swords. also, trump was the one may be holding that sort. now, i have been following my attorneys i would say. the attorneys told me to do it, they gave me advice, i was just being a good client. well, he just told us that he was the one actually pulling the strings. listen to this. >> you hire him, you never met these people, you get a recommendation, they turned out to be rhinos or not so good. in many cases i did not respect them, but i did respect others. i respected many others that said the election was rigged. >> were you calling the shots than, mister president? >> as to whether or not i believed it was rigged, sure. it was my decision. >> jack smith is somewhere salivating at this point in time. the lie is actually pretty incredible,.

to he doesn't actually respect them or trust their advice, but others who told them what he wanted to hear he did. think about who's in that list of people. his own attorney general, the top prosecutor in the country who of course served at his pleasure, respect their? if that is the case, why are your attorneys then saying that you did rely on that? >> you are entitled to believe in trust advice of counsel. you are leading constitutional scholars in united states, john eastman, say to president trump that this is a protocol that you can follow. president trump was following the advice of his lawyer. what he is being indicted for, ultimately, is following legal advice from an esteemed excuse color, john eastman. he had an advice of counsel, a very detailed memorandum from a constitutional expert. >> well, if you are relying on

your attorneys for advice and didn't respect them, then who really did call the shots there? whose advice for you actually following? does that mean that your communication should actually still be privilege then, because you didn't actually follow it? are they now free to testify about the advice you didn't take or even listen to? if you don't respect them, should they still now feel loyal to you? let's talk about all of that with litigation attorney ace got bolden, and -- jennifer, of council to george w. bush. gentlemen, think about this. we know, we never want our clients to be talking in front of the camera without a side by side, or if ever. he essentially maybe gave the keys to the prosecutorial castle in some ways. if you are wondering whether trump was the one to direct something, he calls the shots here. so you've got to wonder how does that bode with his advice of counsel defense. what are your thoughts? >> he walks away from it. but i imagine with some of that interview, what is lawyers were watching it saying oops, there

goes the defense and that is relying on council, despite what the program that you ran. he is a walking admission against your interest machine. his campaign is his criminal cases and his criminal cases are his campaign. as a result, they are inconsistent with one another. he can raise money and run for office, but the criminal justice system is going to dominate this and drive this, which is why every time you talk about this case you may be able to raise money, but i think he's making party admissions. i think that you can get those party admissions in through a hearsay exception, including that we're not arguing for the truth of the matter of subject there in, i'm arguing the fact that he said this. the prosecution may be able to get that on a direct case, but certainly in a rebuttal case. >> when you talk professorial -- i love it. but it's a little bit more nuanced as well. he didn't respect all of the attorneys, he was talking about

this one. he was talking about the constitutional memo and that is where he really had the rubber meeting the road. is that enough to say, look, i didn't believe the rest of, you but then i found that diamond in the rough, i found that one lawyer who i said you've got something kids, all listen to you. is that one of? >> that's what it looks like he's trying to say. i didn't listen to the rhino lawyers, any of the bush administration -- who happen to bring in, my attorney general, no, i relied on john eastman. this constitutional scholar that he is. that's the guy relied on. i also relied on the head of my civil division who's going to make the acting attorney general, until everybody told me that they're going to quit if i listen to him. those are the two i listen to, everyone else, forget them, they're a bunch of rhinos, no nothing lawyers and i'm never gonna listen to them. >> we have to learn the art of the pivot, right? you're going to have to make arguments in court, sometimes a judge could look at you and say i don't buy it, you've got to have something prepared to pivot to.

you may have a juror who is looking at you with a bit of a side eye, you have to pivot accordingly. how do lawyers pivot here? how do they do it in a way that preserves the ability to make a valid defense because everyone is held to a defense, even donald trump. you have to have one, be able to have lawyers who will do it. how do you pivot? >> well, i think that you make the argument that you just made, that he did listen to eastman, he did listen to the scholars, and of course he was interviewing the lawyers back and forth and he liked some, he didn't like others. but this admission on his part is even more powerful because he is owning the criminal conspiracy. he is owning the political criminal organization, he is charged with r.i.c.o., right? in that interview he just owned it. >> i don't want to cut you off, but it's a good point. we're talking about four different indictments, right? obviously to have to do with the very topic or talking about. is it immediately clear that he means the georgia case versus january 6th and beyond? he could likely make an argument, i am sure, to suggest that this was more of an ambiguous statement. >> the federal case is the

january 6th peace and the state case, in many respects, is the local state case, but they are very comparable. want to be in the r.i.c.o. case and the january 6th federal case by jack smith is not so, but they are very comparable and, if you think about it, their partner cases. this happened at the state level, which is part of their conspiracy. at the federal level, that was the broader piece where they were trying to get pence to not do his constitutional duty. so i think you've got to look at them through one legal prism and his statements and him owning the political crime boss as he did in that interview, that is detrimental to the federal case, as well as the state case if you ask me. >> i think she missed an opportunity to ask who ordered the code red, you all know we wait for it as a lawyers for that moment. we know it's not a comparable case, although it may made to feel like that. a lot of the talking points in conversations in this so-called two tiered justice system, as

it relates don't, that is hunter biden of course. he has indictment right now, there are three very different contacts, but he is now suing the irs because he says that the whistleblower essentially, or the irs, failed reject his private records and the agents illegally released tax information. he's looking for 1000 bucks for each disclosure and attorneys fees. when you hear this, to see if a case? >> i don't think, so he's throwing a lot of sand and the gears. it's true that tax information came out, but they reported to congress. it was a congress, the committee released their testimony that out into this whole thing. they are going through the processing, we don't think that things are happening properly at the irs. this was a legally appropriate route for them to follow. >> the whistleblower's, you're saying? >> exactly right, and not appropriate than for them to be sued as a result of that. this will be a contested case, but in a lot of ways this is hunter biden throwing sand into the gears. i didn't think i was going to get indicted, now indicted,

what can i do to confuse the situation. it's very much a donald trump move. >> the whistleblower's themselves are not named as defendants in this action, likely for reasons you're talking about. the protection there. but, i wonder, just because you gave it to congress, if you were disclosed in the first place -- i will say that if you think about the reasons for doing this, is it because he is trying to cloud the issue and he's trying to make it up? >> not to cloud the issue, he is going on the offensive, if you will. the irs is going to do what they're going to do in work with the doj prosecutors, those special prosecutors. then we're going to give irs something to on. i'm going to sue you for violating those privacy law that says you can't disclose the stuff. on the other hand you have the irs protocol, the doj protocols, before they disclosed it to congress under the subpoena, under this lever that they were submitting to, they had to know that they were protected and it had to be cleared by the irs. but, abbe lowell is a really

aggressive white-collar criminal defense lawyer and litigator, and he's going to fight to the very end. he is going to give hunter biden every bit of a fight that he needs, deserves, and can't afford. >> the best defenses offense, they say. there you go scott bolden, jaffer, thank you very much for both of you. coming up, president biden tonight touting his experience as a rebuttal to all of the many questions about his age. the question is, though, what do voters think? what california governor gavin newsom weighs in, a cnn exclusive interview with our own dana bash. (dad) we got our subaru foforester wilderness to discover all of the places ththat make us feel something more.

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so, tonight, president joe biden says it's not about age, everyone, it is about experience. commenting behind closed doors at a fund-raiser on broadway saying, quote, a lot of people seem focused on my age.

believe me, i know better than anyone. the president used his experience as rationale for his reelection adding, quote, when this nation was flat on its back i knew what to do. now, in a exclusive interview with cnn's dana bash tonight, california governor gavin newsom addressed concerns over president biden's age. >> there is something else that americans are concerned about. a new cbs news poll shows only one third of american voters think joe biden will stay in office through a second term. i know that you are downplaying concerns about his age, but, do you believe voters don't have any reason to be concerned that he would be 86 years old by the end of the second term? >> they have every right to be concerned, but -- what the world needs are the qualities of youth, not a time of life, but a state of mind. a quality of imagination. i mean, i couldn't imagine 30 years ago that this president could accomplish so much in

such a short period of time. i mean that. if this a political season is all about a celebrity, with all due respect we have celebrity for four years. it didn't go well. so, i want a season pro that knows how to get things done. i'm a little old-fashioned, i want a guy that produces results and the results are in. it has been a master class. there is simply no administration in my lifetime that has been more effective in producing more substantive results. >> let's take it now former fox news host geraldo rivera. geraldo, is nice to see you this evening. i'm curious to see what your take is, this notion of a season to pro. something reminds me about what we heard early on for a number of politicians who would look at the likes of, say, in aoc or the squad members and they would say, you don't know enough yet, you are not part of the establishment and, therefore, you have to be really more entrenched to have credibility. is it working now for biden to say that? >> i don't think so. i mean, i like to think of

myself as an 80-year-old with deep experience, the problem is i can't remember them all. i think that gavin newsom, you know, when you see mondavi, he looks like he could be trump's son and biden's grand son. it is remarkable to me how frail biden looks when it is pointed out that he is befuddled about going in this direction or that direction and trump, even though he is only three years younger, gets the credit of being more vibrant, more alive, the polls suggesting that, overwhelmingly, that he will finish his term while president biden, so many of them's ear that he will not finish his term. and kamala harris, a very unpopular, i don't know if that's a functional word, but with the widely ridiculed vice president, whether that is a factor also.

people are fearing that biden won't be around, people don't seem to be buying that notion. at least in the polls. it is early, maybe people will get inspired and energized, but it seems that biden is not going to get any younger, even though he is only eight months older than i am he looks like an old guy. with the life expectancy is only in the mid 70s, you start to worry. >> you know, i do wonder, to eastern extent, how much of it is seed planting. it's the benefit of planting seeds, they start to come to fruition and things become a prophecy. in the sense that if i tell you someone looks a certain way, they are vibrant, i might see through that lens. if the polling does say what you're talking about, but here is the thing, geraldo, when you think about it, it was not because of his age was a secret when he ran this last time. most presidents, except for this last one, have about an eight-year term.

so wasn't this contemplated before in the same critiques that happened four years ago were also there, you have the track record of an accomplishment now? with that be enough to undermine what some of these polls are suggesting? >> i don't think so. you know, time is inescapable. it tolls regard-less. and, for years is a long time in the life of an eight year old, i can attest to that. it is. i'm an eight year old looking for a job, so i hope that biden's message resonates. this is a situation where i believe that this will, the frailty of the incumbent president is trump's best weapon. he may cheat at golf, but he's still the club champion. he bounced on the stage, he walks up railings without a holding on to the rail, you know, i think that trump wins. he looks like it each joe biden on stage. he looks like a different kind

of creature, now i don't think he should be president, i think that he forfeited the right to be president to donald trump when he form ended the insurrection and unleashed the rioting of january 6th. but, there is also the issues that joe biden faces. not just with the economy, immigration is really heating up. there are other international issues at there is a sense of unease. i think, and the survey shows, this is the first time i think that the trump, the kind of scarlet letter of presidential candidates and former presidents, that he is now leading within the margin of error, but he is now leading joe biden. it is extraordinary that donald trump has survived all of the primaries and desantis and everybody else and is getting three fourths of the republican vote and now has surpassed the

incumbent president. it is remarkable to me. the worst fears are being realized, this is real. this is the first time, that is a historic graphic you have operate there. the fact that trump now leads biden's reality that everybody has to come to grips with. >> as you mentioned, the margin of error, but also the proximity of the numbers, but also mention this point already, geraldo. the idea that it is still very early and there are many people were skeptical. whether it is in the favor of the candidate you want or not, it would be, perhaps, a mistake to be that singularly all these polls in either direction at this point. 400 something days away from the election, but your point is well taken about what they demonstrate today. but, there are things that could really change the course of any election and, prior to the dobbs decision, naturally, it was the abortion debate. always in kind of invisible ink on every single ballot. i want to get your take on the abortion debate, particularly

in the republican party, so. how this is all going to land when it comes to the wide swath of voters in the general election, not just the primary, but how will all of this land? >> i think it's a great question. here in ohio, in cleveland ohio, in august we had a referendum on whether or not abortion rights would be enshrined in our state constitution. this is a state, ohio, that has become a red state. trump -- the issue to enshrine on the state constitution 58% 42%. it's the most potent issues that democrats have by far. if i were in charge of the democrats i would hit that every day, your rights have been taken away. you want these old grumpy man to have jurisdiction over your

daughters body, every day hinted, it did. that is the biden hope, but, then again, trump now has immigration and the new york times showing pictures of thousands of thousands of south americans coming to the darién gap and walking up the central america and mexico, pouring over the border. the images are so frightening. i think this is going to be a very emotional race in, the next 400 days are going to be wildly crazy. i don't think that you can even rely on the fact that biden trump will both make it to the finish line, 400 days for now. it is a grueling, a grueling task for a much younger man. i'm not so sure that you'll be seeing a gavin newsom or ron desantis at some point down the line resurgence or changing their minds. or, whether or not they're going to run. it is fascinating to me, we've never had a situation like this, we've never had someone who is

going to be 86 years old, for goodness sake, which is considered to, warren buffett beside, it is considered a way, way, way over the distant pills. but, listen, they are both a very accomplished. i want them both to succeed, both the country that we're all rooting for, what happens now is going to determine a lot about the rest of our lives. i just hope that biden's health holds up, i hope both of their house hold up wilson to mentioned are a, fishing for a compliment. do you still look great for your age. thank you. >> thank you. i was totally waiting for you to say. that >>, so i said it to you because you mentioned it more than, once i've got you. >> i know you are a skilled lawyer, but not your skilled. reporter >> ambassador, laura coates, whatever would be. next i want to thank you so much. former president trump, of course, is criticizing his

party over the messaging on abortion. morning some republicans will not win on this issue in 2024. trump, said he could negotiate a deal between democrats, republicans, on abortion restriction and called governor ron desantis six-week ban on abortion in florida a terrible mistake. in fact, tonight, the governor is pushing back. >> anytime he did a do with democrats, what their was on but, did what there was on the criminal justice first step act, they ended up taking him to the cleaners. he's going to make the democrats happy with respect to the right to life. and i think all pro-lifers should know that he is preparing to sell you. >> talking about it, now with cnn political commentator, and former republican josh walsh. the host of white flag protests. glad to both of you here. so. we saw that both of you were looking at the bit. so go ahead, give me a reaction to the conversation before i

get anything. else gone karen. tom. >> i was just thinking, if joe biden had the makeup and the hair that geraldo had for the ten bed or the comb over that trump, that maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation about his age. i don't know. >> you've got it, out your turn. joe i knew it was coming. >> laura, if geraldo was gonna tell us that he was almost 80 years old one more time i was going to scream. look, you know how you feel. he's looking for. job well you know high philip of trump, he's an next essential threat to our democracy but this evening with biden, the only way that it goes away is if joe biden directly mexico away. i think biden needs to lean into the age thing, have fun with, it i am 80 years. old this isn't america. look what i've done. i take a nap every day. big deal. i'm getting the job done. he's got to lean into. it >> all the child, that was geraldo's point. his point was that even one leaning into the experience aspect of it, at the end of the day, many of the democrats and

republicans want to have a bigger tent, including younger voters. is that enough? >> here's the thing, talking about joe biden's age has become talking about hillary clinton's emails. it doesn't surprise me. because he needed the point in your interview. he said he was told in 2016, in 2020, and as kevin yosemite the point look at what he's been able to accomplish. but again we keep talking about it so it's not surprising when you ask voters if they were to, bought it when they ask stories asking about. it sure. and i'll tell you that all that i've seen it when you look at it when voters go to the poll, they are voting for joe biden, they are voting for democrats 2020, 2022, and that recent special election in ohio. so, you know i think it shows that when it comes down to the agenda people are supportive of what he's trying to do with the country. and i agree with him. i, mean remember, he and kamala harris have been presiding over

a country in crisis since they won. it was only a couple of weeks after january six when they took the oath of office. i remember walking through the capital and mom -- they were still terry died and emotional for him to be there. >> his age is a concern, but i agree with karen. he could swat this away in a nanosecond. if he were just more informal about it, and i think fun about, it because look at all he's gotten done. in the bed-wetting, among democrats biden needs to say, look, i am running again. come on everybody. get on board. and enough of this. >> well you are. and what about the issue on abortion. there are number of issues. we talked about the platform in the policy positions. what are the areas aside? i've got to be honest, i'm sure he's tired of talking about his age. he started talking about all of. that we want to talk about what he's actually doing, hasn't, done or maybe issues that voters are going to actually circled the little bubbles, about or push the buttons. one of them will be abortion,

in many respects. and i'm wondering what to make of the democrat's position and the republicans position on abortion. i'm gonna play, for the secretary of, again what trump said about a federal ban on abortion just yesterday. listen to this. >> he is willing to sign a five-week, it's a quick. bang >> so do support that? >> i think what he did was a terrible thing, a terrible mistake. i think the republican speak very inarticulately about the subject. other than certain parts of the country, you are not going to one on this issue. but you will win on this issue when you come out with the right number of weeks. >> so what does that look like? is that? no, it's not, because the whole conversation, and governor newsom talked about in the interview, he has moved on to a conversation. it is not about weeks. it is about a woman should get to decide, with their doctor. because no government official has any idea what goes on in

your body, in my body, or some other woman's body. and that is the reality of health and the way our bodies work. and so i think the country understands that you cannot have a law that just kind of blankets one, look at what's happened since roe v. wade has been overturned. the horror stories we've seen with women having different situations in the pregnancies. so, no, by the way they are not talking about. it mr. i killed roe v. wade? giving advice about how to talk about? it >> trump doesn't know what he's talking about. below, that's a guy who's known he has won the nomination. he knows he has to win the general. and he knows this issue is killing republicans. >> karen finney, dewalt, thank you so. much geraldo is going to appreciate your commentary by the way. he was not thrilled why. it >> is 80 years old, he's looking for a job. >> that's what i would say. >> i'm moving on right, now thank you very much. okay >> five americans everyone, were free from detention in a run and they are now on a plane

back to the u.s. as we are speaking today. some were held for years, and one of iran's most notorious prisons, and what it means once they're back on american soil, is next.

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in just a matter of hours, five americans with the u.s. say they have been wrongfully detained in iran, and will be touching down back in this country. time for the first time, today getting off of a plane into law after leaving iran they will be expected to arrive at a military installation close to washington d.c., i want to bring in contributing writer at

the new yorker, robin right to us in your article on this just out to night. robin, so good to see you today. you have been covering hostage taking of u.s. citizens in, iran since the revolution. what are the next few days going to be like for the soon to be totally freed americans? >> this is a period of adjustment, they will all get their medical checks, and they will get counseling on how to, adjust how to return to normal life. how to get over the many psychological, and in some cases, physical problems they've all entered fallen of long this the tories president. the sense of euphoria will be. great but there is also that sense of guilt, and they wrote about it this morning. he feels incredible joy, without being able to breathe free air. but he feels a sense of guilt, about the people he met, knew, and loved. while in prison he is still

held for very long prison terms. >> well you actually know him as well, personally. so the idea that this person, in particular is coming home, and gives them a kind of survivor skilled, it's something that might not occurred to people. how long he has been there and what it means to all the people who did not have opportunity to return for their home countries it's very significant, as this, robin because this is one deal. any americans who are brought, home is obviously a tremendous and wonderful thing. many are concerned that this might incentivize more hostage taking, do you see that we? >> absolutely, iran has been using this tactic for more than four decades now, and he has at various times how testimony as several dozen americans. a total of almost american since the revolution. this is a problem that affects americans all over the world, forcing the tactic increase in places like russia, venezuela,

syria. the many countries have detained americans because they know the united states values its freedom and values the individual rights i will go to that for all of them. and the wall street journal correspondent who are held in russia. all of these are traumatic for the united states, and for the american people because it is in violation of our basic rights. so there is a danger, that when we celebrate this release, there will be others not only in iran, held on the road because the united states is willing to do things to compromise and to engage in diplomacy. , and sometimes transfer of assets in order to free them. >> well the unfreezing here, really important point robin, thank you very much for joining us with their expertise i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> well, the cofounder of rolling stone magazine is facing a mountain of criticism over comments that he made

about women and black musicians. now he's been booted from his leadership role in the rock and roll hall of fame. rified reviews. that's better than the ham, and i've never said that. booking.com booking.yeah

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okay, so, the rolling stone cofounder whose name is jan weiner is not waterfront comments that he made in a new york times interview about his upcoming book is called the masters, by the way, it's full of interviews that he did with artists like john lennon in jagger. of course, he didn't include a single woman or person of color. >> in so far as women, there were just none of them that was articulate enough on an intellectual level. >> stop it, you can't say that. you're telling me join in mitchell is not articulate enough? >> it's not that they're inarticulate. grace slick, or janet, be my guest. black artists, yeah, stevie

wonder, these are genius artists. i mean, i suppose we need to use a word as broad as the masters, the fault is using that word. maybe marvin gaye. curtis mayfield. they just didn't articulate at that level. >> says the inarticulate person who would make that comment, but i digress. winter also said that perhaps he should have, quote, found one black and one woman artist, unquote, just to avoid criticism. isn't that special? he most certainly had a list of names to choose from in the lock and roll hall of fame -- chuck barry or maybe james brown, ray charles with aretha franklin, bibi king, janet jackson, jay-z, dolly parton, stevie nicks, i could go on all day. but we have got more to talk

about. i didn't even give you an exhaustive list of options, by the way. his comments leaving the rock and roll found a -- it led them in a statement through a spokesperson for the publisher of the masters winter told cnn, impart, quote in my interview with the new york times i made comments that diminished the contributions, genius, and impact of black and women artists and i apologize wholeheartedly for those remarks. unquote. i want to bring in colder writer trae johnson, is so good to see you this evening, trey. you've got the statement that was put out now, but this idea that i should have included a woman and a black to be able to avoid criticism, many people have criticized the whole methodology of how one chooses the, quote unquote, greats. this puts on full display the diminishing that people have criticized and with good

reason. >> absolutely. and, frankly, i think it is not surprising. winter is someone who, if you study's history, is someone who is in the founding of rolling stone has likely spent a lot of time cozying himself up to the people he admired the most, and that meant he had a very myopic view about who he felt like were the taste makers and cultural influencers in the realm of music. this latest work is just a continuation of that kind of fixation. the idea that he would do so at the active omission is, frankly, nothing surprising or new in american context. people have routinely dismissed and rendered invisible the contributions of black artists and or female artists through a long history around music. so, for me, this is just a continuation of receipts about his behavior that is not terribly surprising at the end of the day. >> myopic is the perfect word to choose. people do have their own personal preferences and tastes, obviously, what i might think

is on the top of my playlist might not be on yours, but the idea of suggesting that one could not be articulate enough as a musician or that they somehow should not be included is really about the gatekeepers and erasure and thinking about who gets to decide who is great enough to be called the, quote unquote, masters. but, just the thought that it would not come out until this last week with the new york times, that it would be the first time it would have occurred to him so that you could not only say that, but maybe not to have felt that way in a position of such power. you call this erasure. tell me why? >> well, it is a greater because it is a conscious omission of the, acknowledging the contributions of other people who have contributed to music. look, music is a deeply culturally symbiotic relationship with the artist, the public, culture, and people kind of are awash influencing each other and part of that

continual awash of influencing's acknowledgment that women and or black artists have long been regarding the idea of what the american soundtrack is. we're talking about this in the context of a two pretty significant moments happening right now. one, we are actively in the 50th anniversary of hip-hop and hip-hop as now, for many years, become the dominant soundtrack of the american experience and in how americans are grappling with a notions of things like gatekeepers and power. on a more granular level, one of the two biggest stars that we're talking about the summer, taylor swift and beyoncé, who have the two biggest tours happening around the country. they are record breaking for on the back end of two artists who have been record breaking already in terms of their careers. so, this type of commentary from someone like winter, look, this is the old guard trying to cling to a path that is a little nangarhar elephant. culture has receipts upon

receipts upon receipts about how music has had a broader sense of identity in contribution for impact. this is leaving out, like you said, literature. track very, prince, tina turner, whitney houston, joni mitchell, fleetwood mac, the list goes on and on. the idea that he would want to do this is not just about his own narrow thinking about also, i think this is about understanding this person's contextual history. this is someone who has spent years, decades coddling himself up to the very same subjects of his book. >> were commenting about jan winter today, but we would be foolish to believe that he is an island unto himself and his viewpoints given all of our conversation today. kierra johnson, thank you so much. >> no problem, thank you laura. >> well, the auto workers strike is starting to expand to more plants as we are now about to enter day five. now the walkouts are about to go international.

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now, before we leave, you here is tomorrow's news tonight. the uaw strike against the big three automakers is about and ruts fifth day. a source telling cnn that, long negotiations are ongoing there are no main table meetings with lead negotiators set for tomorrow. the next one for both sides are set for wednesday and thursday, but those of course could move off. there could also be a strike in canada against fort, literally any minute now. that as we are learning former president trump is planning to skip next week's gop presidential primary debate and, instead, give a speech in front

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