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the new summer family meal. starting at $24. only at el pollo loco. >> tonight on three 60, questionnaire that the former president, as they work to overturn the 2020 election, quote, my decision. also tonight, an exclusive look at the security on land and on water as world leaders including president biden gather in new york for the un general assembly. and later another exclusive, cnn clarissa ward on dangerous ground in the central african republic. the russian wagner mercenaries are still making money, even though their leader, yevgeny

prigozhin, is that. good evening, thanks for joining us. with me tonight with a legal and political to for, how the former president may have undermined the likely defense in his federal election subversion case, and potentially alienated supporters on a central issue too many evangelicals. one could cost him votes, the other perhaps, his freedom. both from a single interview with nbc's kristen welcome which aired yesterday. on the legal side, he made it harder for his defense attorneys and the january six election subversion case to claim that he was merely acting on advice counsel and trying to overturn the election that he lost. >> you called some of your outside lawyers, you said they had crazy theories, why were you listening to them? were you listening to them because they were telling you what you wanted to hear? >> you know who i listen to? it was my decision, but i listen to some people, some people said that. guys like bill, barr he was a stiff, but he was not there at the time. he did not do his job. he was afraid. >> what someone asked why he relied on his, council she said he did not rely on advice of

counsel, he relied he says on himself. it was my decision he said. he also claimed that georgia secretary of secretary of state brad raffensperger said he didn't do anything long and that call when he asked him to find him 11,780 votes. a dozen false claims he made in the nbc interview which is not exactly news of course. but what is news is the answer he gave when asked about abortion, and his position on a proposed ban on it after 15 weeks pregnancy. >> if a federal ban landed on your desk, if you are reelected, would you sign it? >> are you talking about a complete ban? >>, people are starting to think a 15 weeks, that seems to be a number that people are talking about right now. >> would you sign? that >> i would sit down with both sides, and i would negotiate something, and will end up with peace on that issue, for the first time in 52 years. i'm not going to say i would solve it overnight, desantis is willing to sign a 5-week, and 6-week ban. >> we'll be talking about this with our political panel coming, up the first constitutional -- laurence tribe joins me --

to head a presidency, the power of impeachment. so professor tribe, did the former president undermines our defense by saying it was his decision to go -- ? there's been a lot of talk that he may argue a trial that he was just listening to legal advice. >> i think he's through his own defense, not just on a robust, but under a freight train. and it's very hard to say that i was relying on legal advice, as a defense of trial. when you tell the world through kristen welker, aaron nbc that he was relying on his own advice. it said sometimes that only a fool hirers himself. as a lawyer. i don't think trump is a fool, but he certainly a narcissist. he just has to say that he is responsible for everything. he does not depend on anybody. it's all very, nice politically, but in the courtroom, he's just blown that defense, the defense

that i was just relying on on lawyers, and therefore i did not have a state of mind that it takes, to commit these crimes. he's just blowing that out of the water. >> he did sort of had a little bit, he said while it was his decision, he also said he quote, listened to some people. does that give him wiggle room to steal attempt the advice of counsel? he also said that he did not trust, and did not respect the lawyers who are arguing the counter argument, which would basically the white house counsel, and legitimate attorneys. >> well you, know he can say he relied on skip -- and he relied on other people, all kinds of people. the ship specifics defense that says i was just following the directions of my, lawyers it's a very narrow defense. it's not just like saying i read the papers, i listen to

everybody. that will not do. if you are accused, of the various crimes that jack smith has obtained indictments for, and you say that well, it may be that i did these, things but i was innocent because i was basically upon following my lawyers instruction, that's not an easy defense under any circumstances. but when you have said publicly what donald trump said, then that defense is just not going to fly with the jury, especially if you're not willing to take the stand. he has a right not to, but the only way he could explain all of that to the jury is by giving up that right. and taking the stand. it's not likely to, because everyone knows that he would perjure himself. he's really gotten himself into quite a corner. >> the former president's defenders argue that if he genuinely believed the election

was, stolen and there is no corrupt intent. >> is that that simple? >> it's not that simple. you can believe that money was stolen from me, but it does not give you the right to break into fort knocks and take an equivalent amount back from the government. even if he did genuinely believe that he had won the election, which is pretty hard to believe, given what everybody was telling him, and given that there are instances where he actually said i cannot believe i lost to that guy biden, even if he actually believed, it it would not get rid of his criminal liability. but, again and the only way he could possibly convince even one juror, that he was just an innocent guy who convinced himself that he was incapable of losing, the only way he could do that was to take a stand, and as to fire under earth. i think even though he says he would love to testify under, oath he's always said that, he's never done it in any of these proceedings.

we'll just have to see. >> you have been vocal in arguing section 3 of the 14th amendment, or as the former president from even appearing on a ballot in 2024, because he incited the january 2026, initially agreed with that, with you. he's now echoing an argument made by former -- which is essentially the phrasing of that section, specifically quote, officer under the united states, does not actually refer to a president. can you just explain for non lawyers what that's all about? >> it's pretty hard, because it does not make any more sense legally than it does logically, or in terms of common sense. the constitution in its appointments clause does talk about the presidents power to appoint officers. those people are not elected, they are appointed. where it refers, in a totally different part of the

constitution, and acted not as part of the original constitution, the way hit the appointments clause was, but as part of the 14th amendment, after the civil war were it refers to civil, or criminal officers of the united states, and obviously includes the president. the president is an officer, what else would he be? >> the constitution in article 2 uses that work to describe the presidency, 9 times. there is no reason to think that just because officers are appointed, rather than elected, in article 2 of the constitution, which was enacted in 1787, and then became the law in 1789, no reason to believe that because their

officers does not refer to people like the president, that somehow the president is exempt from the disease -- . it sort of like a king complex, he says everybody else has to abide by an oath, everyone else who takes an oath to the constitution and then engages in insurrection against the constitution he never again hold office, except if it's the president. that just suggests that when we rebelled against king george, we really intended to have another kind of came, above the. lost somebody who can take an oath to the constitution with his fingers crossed, then try to overturn it and say -- so, it does not make sense. why mr. calabresi changed his line on this bizarre basis, probably the least persuasive of all possible reasons to doubt the applicability of this disqualification clause, is quite beyond me. it's not a new argument, there

are people who made this quite silly arguments about the president not being an officer years ago. it was not, new and somehow mr. calabresi says well, i now buy that argument. >> i appreciate, it rhonda scent is just responded to the former presidents abortion remarks, and his refusal to commit -- should he be reelected. florida's governor telling -- i think all pro-life should know that he's preparing to sell you out. joining us to cnn political -- , and melissa fairy, griffin alissa, a typical republican candidate refusing bashing a strict abortion law like ron desantis signed, would lose support among even injured yelling calcaterra videos. does this impact him there at all? >> they probably fundamental does not. it further underscores how donald trump has just upended all of the rules of republican politics.

at the end of the, day even him coming out and saying something closer to 15 weeks in criticizing, at the end of the day, voters are going to remember that he put 3 conservative justices on the supreme court that led to the overturning of roe. i actually think that donald trump or what is being a bit politically expedient, in reading the tea leaves, and knowing that landing on something like a 6-week ban would be political suicide in a general election for republicans. he got some criticism, some other pro-life, groups but it won't fundamentally -- at the end of the day, he's about 40 -- -- or general, election i think it would, in trump lies about the lies that he lies about. this is just not. he literally is the reason that we don't have roe v. wade, he

was bragging about it, but now he's looking down the road, and he's seeing republican they -- lost their shot at taking the house because of, this you're seeing red states purple states, everywhere this is in banana peels, the cars running over. them so trump, to your point is trying to get out of the. way i think the democrats are doing a pretty good job of pulling his feet to the fire. all of this abortion extremists, he is the author of, the champion, of the legal enabler of. he can get away from it. >> in the embassy interview when he was pressed about a federal ban, and he said it could be, state it could be federal, i don't frankly care. do you think he's actually being honest? there he does not actually really care? >> i'm not sure he has any personal conviction around to the issue of abortion. i would actually guess that he's probably personally pro choice, but he's not since he

ran in 2016 that he had to do what was politically expedient. there was this famous interview that he did that said something along the lines of women who get abortions should be punished. and pro-life groups were like whoa wow, that's not only. believe he sensed that it's been learning what republican order to gutsy it -- but he can read the tea leaves well enough to know that 15 weeks is kind of the safe place to be in a general election. if i can just point out, this shows how different the -- in the post roe era. i come from the world of republican politics for someone like mike, pence or even a donald trump said, 15 weeks is reasonable for abortion access, that would've gotten you thrown out a few years, ago that's -- in 2020, to this was a big

issue that brought people to the polls. do you think it's gonna be that in 2024? >> i think, because there were a lot of democrats in 2020, to who did not think, i talked to nancy pelosi about, this she was a person saying that this is the issue to run on. i think that when you have something, and you take it for granted, when somebody takes it from you, you take it personally. i think that's what happens. people for 50 years, whatever it was, there was no brainer of, course without the right to control their own bodies. and when it got taken, away people got very concerned, and also, these stories about what happened to real people, women who have -- and have to go to states away, and there is a hole -- this is not going, away it's getting worse and worse on the

ground, with real people. it's going to be a motivator. >> you agree with us? >> i would just, mention i think republicans were behind the ball in the messaging of, if you are going to see your power, life you're gonna need to be the most pro -- unit access to adoption care, for paid family, leave that -- (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence.

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so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ but americans held 4 years in iran, due to it in the washington area in the overnight. ours there are armored from qatar, where they were -- securing that freedom, involve the swap for 5 or on his held in this country in 6 billion dollars in frozen in iranian assets. the deal is coming under criticism, mainly from republicans, including former vice president pence who said that he's like the president quote, we will never ever pay ransom to terrorists, or terrorists. it's becky anderson joins us live now. becky, you were on a tarmac when all this, happened 6 million, what you saw today. >> yes, you are right, anderson tarmac just behind me, there that's doha international airport, not flight from tehran, and caro's flight arrived, they are at around late afternoon queretaro, more and 10-30 am

eastern time. the doors opened and out k those 5 u.s. detainees, plus 2 family members, and if i said that this was emotional, i would be really under so stating what happened there. there were, smiles there were hugs, there were tears as the u.s. ambassador to qatar met those individuals. let me show you what evolved. >> smiles, hugs in tears. as 5 americans detained inside iran for years. they are finally freed, and on their way home. , among, them see amok namazi, he is arrested in 2015, while on a business trip to iran he was charged with having relations with a hostile state. after nearly 8 years in prison, he was iran's longest held

american prisoner. feeling abandoned by the u.s., earlier this year here appealed directly to president biden, in an unprecedented interview with cnn from inside the notorious oven prison -- >> honestly, the other hostages desperately need -- president biden to finally hear us out, to finally hear our cry for help, >> also, freed dua marion american citizens, mired -- and ahmaud -- thomas, an environmentalists, was arrested while on a trip to iran in 2018. a businessman who moved with his wife to iran, from the u. s. in 2017 was also detained in 2018. on similar charges, to that of namazi. >> for, years there -- between the 2 -- but the help of a common,

friend in qatar, breakthrough diplomacy brought us to this. iran freed the dual citizens, in a deal to release 5 iranians held in u.s. prisons. and to our block 6 billion dollars in frozen iranian funds from south korea. that cash, moving from seoul to switzerland, before being transferred to doha. after the biden administration last week issued a sanctions waiver, clearing the way for the money to move. >> the role of qatar, now changing from mediator to guarantee. >> ensuring washington's demands that iran's billions are strictly controlled. and spend only on humanitarian goods, like food and medicine. critics worry, even with the house oversight, the monies could be spent however theron

decides. there's also concern this latest deal enables what many critics have dubbed, toronto hostage diplomacy. >> but, for the freedom arrogance today at least, politics will likely be a secondary concern. they finally get to go home, after years of mental, and physical anguish. >> what more do we know about how the deal came about? >>, that's fascinating, it absolutely fascinating, it's been in the works over a couple of years now. in direct, on and off talks, between the u.s. and iran. these are indirect of course, brokered by qatar. the cutter where i am now. it was only in the last 7 months that this deal materialized, and only in august that the steal was actually signed off on. i'm told that the negotiations around the release were relatively straightforward. it was the negotiation around the release of the money, the 6 billion dollars from the south

korean account into the swiss account, that ultimately it here today to -- in doha. that was the really difficult part, that according to original source. anderson. >> becky anderson, thank you so, much -- the other his possible republican, only 3 years younger. tonight, carry on 10 joins us to talk about how voters assess the question of age after the former president made some gaps of his own. later an exclusive look at how new york monitors -- including the president -- gathered for the u.s. -- now

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biden's age has been one of the main attack lines of republicans in recent months the former president who was just three years younger than biden, it may have undermined that recently when he repeatedly said biden wasn't old, who was an issue of competence. a day later this past friday the former president appear to be confused biden for former president obama and stumbled over how many world wars there had been. >> the country is very divided, and we did with obama, we won an election, everyone said couldn't be one. >> we have a man who is totally corrupt, and the worst president in the history of our country. who is cognitively impaired.

in no condition to lead. and is now in charge of dealing with russia. and possible nuclear war. just think of that. we would be in world war ii. very quickly, if we're going to be relying on this man. >> as we've said, there's been a lot of reporting over concerns what president biden's age, what about the former president? for that we turn to harry enten, biden is 80. president. former president trump is 77. what are americans thinking about the h factor for the former president? >> i mean the one thing i should, say whenever i talk to people who were outside the news industry about this race, the one thing they say is these guys are old. these guys are old. fox news, they asked the question is trump mentally sound enough to basically serve as president of the united states? majority of voters said no? they said no, 52% said no.

just 46% said yes. and that number has been pretty stable over the past few months. you know we talk about biden all the, time the fact is, trump, if he was the guy and that cites younger democratic nominee. i think we'd be talking more about trump's age. >> -- new polling on how many voters think biden and trump would actually complete a second term. >>, yes this polling is not pretty for president biden. in, fact last and majority in the 30s think that biden would complete a second term. at least trump is over 50% on this method. of course, i was interested, comparing it with a president from years past to a lot of people thought was old, remember ronald? reagan running for a second. term basically made fun of his age. i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i will not exploit my opponents youth and inexperience, everyone cheered. the vast majority of voters thought ronald reagan would finish a second, turn into the 70s. the fact that biden is in the 30s on this metric, is something that is truly unusual, truly different, and should be truly worrisome. >> how have voters attitudes regarding the current presidents aide changed over time?

>> yes, when we compare it now, versus where we were back in 2020. what we see is that we have seen clear, movement in terms of the percentage of americans, percentage of voters who say biden does not have the mental soundness to serve as president of the united states. that number has gone up by 20 points since 2020, so this is something where voters have been looking at joe, biden looking at him being president, they are not liking what they're seeing. i think that's one reason why, at this particular, point joe biden and donald trump or even in the polls. despite the fact that president, trump or former president has been indicted four times. age, to me, is the biggest issue for biden in this particular poll. >> okay, thank you very much. tomorrow president biden addressed as un general assembly in new york, we're also beginning with leaders in israel and brazil, thursday, he meets with ukrainian president back in washington. president zelenskyy arrived here in new york today, visiting wounded ukrainian soldiers, recuperating at a hospital in staten island. so many world leaders descending on new york's huge security challenge, tonight in three 60 exclusive, john rylan

miller was given rare behind the scenes access to see how new york law enforcement prepares. >> this is a national security event, 170 or so foreign heads of state here with their spouses. responsible for protecting and i think in the last ten years it has united nations general assembly the largest one we've hosted. >> kimberly cheadle is a director of the u.s. secret service the agency that protects the president of the united states, but it's also responsible for protecting every or leader attending the united nations general assembly. the nypd is a key partner of resources on the ground, in the sky -- and on the water, to protect what is annually the largest gathering of world leaders anywhere on the planet. 151 heads of states, 41 foreign ministers, that's nearly 200 security detail. >> their job is to discuss the

future of our world and our job is to make sure they can do that without disruption. >> but appears in brooklyn, 315 police cars are gathered to be deployed in a motorcade that went through the city day and night. and that means traffic closures, frozen zones, and detours in a city that's already snarled with traffic on a good day. >> that's a lot of choreography, a lot of choreography. but we dance well. we have our federal partners, our intelligence bureau, constantly monitoring threats. quite frankly, we are always a threat level, one way or the other. we are always prepared to move to protect the city. >> at the nypd's command center, police access feeds from thousands of cameras, hundreds of license plate lee readers, even a map that tracks flight patterns and early warning systems in case a plane goes off course. and if there is an incident or

attack -- >> immediately, this room, as you can see, through its ability, our cameras and technology, it will immediately be pumping information out to our incident commanders on the field as well as skipping top level executives at the nypd inform. >> at the secret service, the protective intelligence cell scans all active threats not just to the president of the united states, but against any of the world leaders under their protection in new york. >> so, we are looking at the technological aspect of it. we are looking at the cyber aspect of it. and then, we are looking at the human threat itself. >> they have planned and practiced for every scenario, chemical weapons, biological attacks, even a nuclear device coming into the harbor on a ship. this nypd counterterrorism launch is the quipped with advanced radiation detection technology. >> so, this vessel is part of our fleet. we actually have three vessels. this vessel has radiation

detection equipment in the battle of the vessel. now, that will be able to detect any radiation emanating off of any object. the strategy is to be able to detect any anomalies, and to be able to address that and to check it out and see what it is and make sure everyone in the area is safe. we want to do that as far out as possible so that we can get a jump on anything and be able to clear the area, we strike down the waterways, you know, everything that we may have to do to neutralize a threat. >> joining me now, our chief lot for cement intelligence analyst, john miller, former nypd deputy commissioner for intelligence counterterrorism. he was actually in charge of new york city police department role in securing the un general assembly. first of all, i'm glad to hear they have a plan for a nuclear device on about. clearly, no one's gonna say what the plan is. as a citizen of new york, i'm glad to hear that. what is different now about this than when you are doing it? >> one of the things that's different today is, you know, two of the countries who are

visiting the u.n. are at war, that is russia and ukraine. one of them this time is not us. but anytime there is anything going on in the world there whipple reaches new york. and we've seen that again and again. doing -- actually, it was yesterday, the anniversary, but during the 2016 general assembly, we had bombs go off on the west side of manhattan during the u.n. conference. that was, you know, inspired by i.s.i.s. and al-qaeda, and those were the ripples of a different war coming to new york. you can lock down, you know, a box around the u.n. and those hotels where the world leaders are state. but you can't lock down a city. you remember that ended in a battle in new jersey where the bomber was captured. so all of this prep, the partnership between the secret service, the nypd, the fbi, the coast guard, the other agencies, it's all for good reason. >> john miller, really fascinating. thank you. coming up, another ac360 exclusive, russia's move to consolidate the operations of wagner group in africa after

the death of yevgeny prigozhin. our clarissa ward returns to the central african republic years after first reporting on walker there. she joins us next. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission

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>> now reporting only see on cnn from wagner clarissa ward now. the russian paramilitary wagner was left leaderless after its former boss yevgeny prigozhin died in a mysterious plane crash last month, two months after a failed coup. that left significant questions, not only about its military future in and around the quake,

but also it's often secretive and very lucrative operations throughout africa. the central african republic has been home to wagner forces for years now. clarissa ward actually reported other activities four years ago. she's now come back to see what prigozhin's that has gone to wagner lucrative mission there ncar. >> in the central african republic, the message from wagner is clear, it is business as usual. less than one month after their boss, yevgeny prigozhin, was killed in a plane crash, masked mercenaries still guard the president, and intimidating figure on the streets of the capital. faces covered as wagner protocol dictates they are unapproachable and untouchable. these are the first images of wagner fighters in the country since prigozhin's death. >> [inaudible] >> that presents runs deep. the markets are full of cheap

sachets of vodka and beer, made by a wagner owned company. the locals seem to like it. >> [speaking in a non-english language] >> they say they don't drink french beer, only russian beer. >> we have come back to the center of prigozhin's empire in africa, right as his death raises questions for the regimes he protected and the mercenaries whose loyalty he inspired. our last this it was in wagner 's early days here. run like the mafia, providing guns, fighters, and propaganda, in return for gold, diamonds, and timber. it's an intimidation and brutality along the way. that car full of russians has been following us for quite some time. we don't know why. we don't know what they want. >> but in this lawless war scarred country, one of the poorest in the world, that ruthlessness is celebrated by many. >> welcome to -- palace.

>> wow, that is quite the t-shirt! >> beautiful t-shirt. >> presidential advisor fadell says the nation is in mourning for wagner's gut leader. >> he was my friend, he was my best friend. he was a friend of all central african people. >> why exactly was mr. prigozhin so popular here in your mind? >> because our country was in a war. so mr. prigozhin -- mr. putin gave us soldiers with prigozhin. >> so, aren't you nervous now that he is a dead, that things might change? >> mr. putin called our president. he told him that everything will be like yesterday. nothing will be changed, nothing. >> [speaking in a non-english language] >> but according to a diplomatic source here,

hundreds of wagner fighters left the central african republic in july after prigozhin's failed mutiny. those that remain including his top lieutenants, have agreed to work for the russian ministry of defense. fighters have already been pulled back from frontline outposts to population centers in an effort to cut costs, the source says. what's less clear is what becomes of wagner civilian presence here. this is one of the last places that prigozhin was seen alive during his final tour across africa. it's called the russian cultural center. only, it has no connection to russia's official cultural agency, and was run, until recently, but prigozhin's closest associate here. photographs taken on that visit show a new face, a woman known as nafisa. after days of asking for permission to visit, we decide to film covertly.

>> you are here than when yevgeny prigozhin, when he was here and the photographs. there is the photograph of you with prigozhin together. >> oh my god, can you show me that? >> i think it was just over on that corner. >> yeah. >> here you are -- okay, that's good. and this is mr. prigozhin, though. >> yeah. >> how was he? >> good. >> do you think they were going to kill him? >> [inaudible] we don't know such things. >> what does it mean to work here? does it change anything? >> it doesn't change anything. [inaudible] >> she shows us one of their daily russian classes, as we step back outside, we see a wagner fighter. >> hi --

[inaudible] [speaking in a non-english language] >> you can just make him out retreating to the back of the center, where according to the investigative group, the sanctuary, the sentry, wagner sells its diamonds to the ip's and manages its timber and alcohol operations. >> [inaudible] >> can we steal what is there? that's weird. what are we going to see there? >> like most of wagner's activities here, it's clear there is still so much that is hidden from view. we pushed the visit far enough. it's time to go. >> [crowd chanting] >> no matter who takes over here, western diplomats say they don't expect much to change. at the local orthodox church, the greek lettering has been

painted over. it's allegiance now is to the russian patriarchy. and even in the skies above the empire that prigozhin built, russia's dominance lives on. >> and our chief international correspondent clarissa ward joins us now. i mean, it is so fascinating to see you back there. now that wagner's existing leadership has agreed to work for the russian ministry of defense in the car, do russian authorities acknowledged control over wagner's activities in africa? >> no, they don't really acknowledge anything. what you have to do is kind of parse through the bread crumbs and try to work up with going on. so, we know, for example, that on september 1st, there was a large delegation, primarily, personnel from the russian ministry of defense who visited the car. they visited a number of other countries in prigozhin's african empire as well, among them the deputy minister of defense, but also interestingly, a senior spy master from the gru, that's military intelligence, who has been in

charge of an assassination squad. and so, you start to put the pieces together that, okay, this is gonna be some kind of collaboration. the m.o.d. will be responsible for parts of it. but military intelligence may also be taking a broader role. but make no mistake, anderson, it's still a fluid situation. nothing has yet been set in stone. >> it's incredible to see that. clarissa ward, thank you so much. coming up for, my champions for change. see how they turned their grief into action by helping other survivors amass shootings.

♪ ("un monde pliable" by jeongpill song) ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) (camera shutters) ( ♪ ♪ ) (camera shutters) ( ♪ ♪ ) ( ♪ ♪ ) ( ♪ ♪ )

>> now for champions for change, all this week, we are bringing stories about every day people who are lifting humanity up and changing the way things get it done. my champions for change are sandy and lonnie phillips, who helped survivors of mass shootings. they know the pain of loss firsthand. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> sandy and lonnie phillips have been on a journey for more than a decade that started the night they lost their daughter, jessie, in the aurora, colorado theater shooting. >> it received a phone call from a young man that was with her. and when i picked up the phone, i could hear the screaming going on in the background, and the chaos. and he said there's been a shooting. i said, oh, please, god.

tell me that she is not dead. >> and the line went silent. i lucked out a scream. >> and at that moment, i knew that my wife would never be the same. and i would no longer have a daughter. >> sandy and lonnie asked their son jordan to fly to colorado to bring his sister home. >> joining me now is jordan -- >> i met him the day after the shooting. >> we're gonna bring, our home celebrate her life with family and friends. all the lives that she touched. >> just five months later, another mass shooting that shocked the nation. newtown. sandy and lonnie flew into support other grieving parents. >> we saw the parents of those children walking in to the community center. and they were like, zombies. and i said to my husband, we can help them. we can do what wasn't done for us. >> how are you guys doing? >> what they've, done they've created a nonprofit called

survivors empowered. i first spoke to them about it for 60 minutes back in 2019. >> just checking in on you. >> the goal to help with everything from mental health resources to preparing survivors for media attention. >> it's so interesting, what you're doing, you're not trained therapists. you're not counselors, and yet, you have upended your lives and you have reached out and every individual way. >> yes, it's compassion. >> their efforts have taken them across the country. to some of the worst mass shootings in american history. with all the, learned they created the survivors toolkit along with gabby as an organization. >> what we're trying to do, to get every mayor in america. so they've got it on hand when, not if, but when this happens in their community. >> tragedy struck the community of uvalde ten years into the philips's journey. even for them, it was too much to bear. >> our first response was to

sandy hook. and for me, emotionally, uvalde was our last. uvalde took everything out of me. i don't know that i'll ever be able to physically respond to another mass shooting, because of uvalde. >> that was like bookends for us. >> they now focus on building up the next generation of survivors. >> five times, shoulder to shoulder, not one bullet touched me. >> i still don't understand. >> dion green's father was killed in a mass shooting, in dayton, ohio. >> sandy gave me her arm, she gave me her ear, and she gave me her shoulder to lean on. >> now he travels the country offering support. >> i followed her lead, to help others as well. >> we really tried to make our legacy, which was really just jesse's legacy.

all about the future. because we have found joy again. and i want other survivors to find that joy again. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> be sure to tune in saturday, eight pm eastern for champions when our special right here, on cnn. that's it for, us news continues, source of kaitlan collins is next right after a quick break, i will see you tomorrow.

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