- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. tonight in washington americans leaders are fighting for style over substance. all because chuck schumer directed the senate sergeant in

arms to no longer enforce the chambers formal dress code. it is seen, at least partially in response to john fetterman's preference for wearing shorts and a hoodie around the capital instead of his suit. some lawmakers, a-rod republicans that we heard from, are not on board with this change however. -- called the decision terrible, chuck grassley said it stinks, and susan collins even threatened were a bikini to work although she said she wouldn't actually do that, noted that she could. as to weigh in on the fashion fight fetterman said, quote, oh my god if the republicans thinks that i'm going to burst through the doors and start break dancing in shorts i don't think it's going to be a big issue. we'll keep you updated if that happens. thank you for joining us a cnn prime time with abby phillip starts right, now. >> we'll see how long that one lasts. i don't know, once they start to see those sorts who knows what's going to happen. good evening everyone, i'm abby philips. we begin tonight with some breaking news, and more

possible evidence of witness tampering, and obstruction by donald trump. now according to reports, his former assistant told investigators that trump told her, to say that she didn't know anything about the boxes of classified documents over at mar-a-lago. but that was after we learned that the feds wanted to speak to her. the assistant also ledges that trump would right to do lists on classified papers, that he would then give to her. now tonight, a trump spokesperson responded to that report, in part blasting quote, illegal leaking. but remember, one of trump's other aides has already flipped on him, telling investigators that trump ordered him to delete tapes. let's discuss all of this with cnn legal and political analyst john avlon, an attorney to -- the and -- tim -- thanks for being here. look, you don't know anything about boxes, that's the quote. how damaging is that? >> i think it's incredibly damaging. i mean, molly michaels i think is going to be a critical witness in jackson's case. one, it's -- the charges, right.

it's putting documents in trump's hands, that's where he's writing these to duellists, that's critical. the second point is going to be that obstruction count, as you are talk about. the obstruction point. and what that does is it puts the jury in the mind of the former president. that is always tough in a criminal case. how do you show knowledge and intent, as is required in the law? and with here, and that's evidence that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and he intended to act with criminal intent. and that's going to be a critical, and for any cover-up, that's going what a jury is gonna love to see. that's what people understand. everybody knows what he means, i lie -- it shows what you are doing is wrong. >> and not for nothing, this is part of a pattern. in a lot of ways, but perhaps the most significant, at this moment, is that people are coming forward with their stories, and in the jury will decide whether it is the truth or not. but how significant is that, that people are deciding you know what, i've got to tell what i know, and they are coming forward to the special counsel? >> it's incredibly civic.

and what i will note here is, it is important to talk about credibility. this is not some democrat out of, nowhere with a political opposition to trump, this is his personal assistant. she stuck by him through impeachment one, impeachment, to the january 6th attack. she was with him, she is someone who has shown loyalty to him. and at this point, she broke. but that is important that a jury is going to look at that and say, why wouldn't she lie? she has no bias, she has no incentive to mislead here. so that is going to be a critical point, for the credibility that she has. unlike a lot of witnesses that we had an urgent investigation, they were republicans, they were handpicked by the former president, and they all said, this guy did something. wrong >> and i think that's the key point. that's something that you all did very methodically, in that january six hearing is, republicans, who worked for donald trump, who were saying that this was wrong, that we have indications that bad things were happening. and that can help the polarize the debate around. this is not going to be successful with a third of the

republicans who believe donald from the matter what he says or does. but the fact that now you have people who are taking oaths, who hadn't testified previously, who were in position, snow even after he left the white house, i think it's enormously significant, for all the reasons you stated. >> one of the other things about this, the new york times is reporting that she told investigators that trump would scribble notes, to himself, on documents, give them to her. she would return them over, and realize that they've got classified markings on them. one of the interesting things about trump's, as you know well, as a january 6th investigator, is that he doesn't often write things down. he's not emailing, he's not texting in the same way that other people would do, in modern times. but how significant is that? >> i think it's entirely, and as you said, oh it's significant, because it's putting again, that's going to be a piece of evidence, you could put on the big, screen in front of the jury. and you can say, these are his

words. >> and you are right, we often don't get him going as far or all the way. if you think about the call to the georgia secretary of state, he talked to in that mob boss style language. you don't get him saying that final act. but with this writing, here you have pieces of evidence, where he is putting his hand, his writing on a document, and have to explain why he had that document, and where he had it. >> well, we don't know what he wrote down. in fact, there is some indication it may have been to do lists. what i think is significant is that when she flips it over, it's classified documents. >> that's the thing. >> and that just goes to speak to the absolute sense that the law doesn't apply to this person and, the former president. that he is acting with such callousness towards classified information, that he is writing to do lists on the back of them. >> look, if there is a piece of evidence in a trial, that is a black sharpie on the back of a classified documents, that seems to me to be pretty powerful. >> significant. >> visually, for a jury to consider. john -- thank you both.

and now, on to the chaos over on capitol hill. so pew asked americans to describe the state of the united states politics, in just one. row and i want you to listen to some of the most common responses. and i have to warn you here, some of these are not kid friendly. >> divisive, chaos, corrupt, massie, crazy, that, sad, dysfunctional, broken, disgusting, ridiculous, petty, partisan, embarrassing, hypocrisy, -- hellish, crooked, sucks, fractured, circus, liars, joke, self centered, crap, nasty, toxic, deceit, farcical, convoluted, rig, combative, dumpster fire, aggressive, extreme, poor, disaster, disgrace, unproductive, and,, left.

>> no repeats there. and only one response can be considered a positive adjective, and that was, quote, good. well, it's hard to argue with many of those descriptions, and since next week, the government may shut down, again. republican hard-liners in the house are refusing to agree to a plan to fend fund the government, and they are demanding even deeper spending cuts. here is how one model republican is reacting to all of this. >> this is not a conservative republicanism. this is stupidity. these people can't define a win, they don't know how to take yes for an answer. it's a clown show. >> and joining me now is republican congressman ryan -- he is a member of the house appropriations committee. congressman, thank you for joining us tonight. >> great to be with. you >> first of all, is the government shutdown inevitable, at this point? >> not inevitable. but here is what's going on. the house agreed, or at least

the republican side, agreed that we would go through a regular order, this appropriation process, and really with two goals, let's curve the, spending and let's remove the wolf from our political point of view. and we did that with the appropriation bills, the defense bill is a 3% increase, it segregates out of the ukrainian support, which we deserve a discussion on what we are doing, goals, objectives of the ukraine, or where the money is going. but, this bill, there was just a handful that decided they would hold up the defense of our country. >> for those five who are against it, do you think there is anything that could get them to a yes, on a defense appropriations bill, that raises spending levels? >> well, you look at, i think a reasonable plan. we already had the va appropriations bill in the back. it was through the house, and that was done no harm to our veterans.

and we have the defense bill, which is plus three. but remember, inflation was greater than that. and -- ukraine, and lastly, it really is the border. bill if border security, and if you don't vote for these bills, and then i don't know what your a game plan is, because it's defense at our border, and our veterans. if you're going to hold it hostage. and believe me, i was secretary when we went through the last period of shutdowns. and you know, e five might not get us paychecks, might i get a paycheck. >> do you think the republicans will end up being blamed for? that you have lived for this before, will republicans take the blame if there is a shutdown? >> well i don't think the republicans will, but certainly five will. and remember, that no democrats voted for it either. >> but republicans are in charge right now. >> yeah but, what is in the buildup people object? to >> your colleague,

congresswoman nancy mace, says that without a deal with democrats, a short term funding bill just will not pass the house. are you open to reaching across the aisle to avert a government shutdown? >> i am always open to america first. and, when it comes to the three bills, the three appropriation bills that i think are key to this, you have our veterans, we have the border, and we have defense. look, if we can't agree on those three, i'm not sure we can agree on. and quite frankly, i think americans want congress to do the right thing, and defend the country. >> you know, the far-right of the republican conference in the house, and they seem to really constantly be in a state of revolt. or earlier this year, after speaker mccarthy went through five, 15 votes to become a speaker, he said it showed him how to govern. do you think that that is still the case? >> well you know what, what we agreed to is this, we agreed that we would go to a --

regular we would have 12 appropriation bills, and the appropriation bills would meet the objectives of curving spending. >> are you frustrated at all with your colleagues, who are holding all of this up? >> well, you know, i think frustrated. i would say more disappointed. because we need leadership, and in the case of the speaker, who else? so, give me an alternative. and i don't think there is an alternative, it's a tough job, and i think mccarthy is doing what he said he would. do >> speaker mccarthy has said that some of this is personal, that the opposition to what he is trying to do is personal. do you think that is the case? are people just trying to make things harder for him? >> well, there are certainly some bad blood and bad feelings >>. and my hope is that we rise above our personal feelings, and do what's in the interest of our country. that's our task, is that we

have 218 votes to move something across, it's a small majority, but also you put bills forward that you know will pass, and become the law. and the analogy of a football, all of your place shouldn't be touchdowns, you need to make some yards, in a lot of those yards, i think both sides of the aisle can agree that we can do better than what we're doing. >> do you think some of your colleagues don't understand that, the incremental nature of something that you have to do here? >> well you know, i can tell, you it's helpful being a former seal commander, because anyone can fight, but leaders fight and win. and i think those last two words are important. and winning is here, to make sure that we arm the constitution. i think we need to address our spending, because if we don't do that, the rest of this is not going to matter. and we need to defend our country, restore our border, so these are elements that many members on both sides of the aisle came to washington to do. so it's disappointing when

there are distractions away from where i would consider to be the core purpose. >> all right, congressman ryan zinke, we appreciate you joining us tonight, thank you. >> as always, and god bless. >> and up next, donald trump, and joe biden fight to stay claim as the biggest supporter of american unions. michael more weight weighs in next. plus, he was the face of a conspiracy pushed by fox news and other outlets, and now, ray epps is charged in the january six insurrection. geraldo rivera joins me live. and, volodymyr zelenskyy arrives in the united states, to find support for continuing to fund the ukraine war is falling. stay with. us

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so, we switched to tide pods free & gentle. it cleans better, and doesn't leave behind irritating residues. and it's gentle on her skin tide free & gentle is epa safer choice certified. it's got to be tide tonight, the auto workers union is threatening to expand the strike if the big three car companies don't increase their offers. also making headlines today, the white house says it's no longer sending a team to michigan to monitor those talks and donald trump will skip the second republican debate and, instead, speak to union members into troy it. lots to talk about tonight with michael moore, the oscar -winning documentary filmmaker and who is also a union supporter with deep family ties to the uaw. michael, as i just mentioned, donald trump says that he is skipping this next debate. he's going to go over to michigan and deliver a primetime speech in detroit to an audience of union members.

is this a publicity stunt? >> yes and one that he is hoping that the news media will cooperate with him in the stunned. it is all it is. i mean, the working people of this country, i think understand what trump did during his four years for the working people. nothing. what he did do was pass one of the largest tax breaks for the rich ever, that is who benefits when donald trump was in the white house. this thing of him going to detroit, wow. i just don't know. maybe it proves he has a weird sense of humor because he is not going to get the support of the autoworkers there. >> historically, trump has had more support, at least among rank and file union members then perhaps union leadership. this definitely was a factor in

the 2016 election especially. could people be missing a hidden appeal here he's not doing this because there is nothing there? >> in 2016 use a very popular tv show celebrity. i don't know if you ever saw the apprentice, it was an interesting and entertaining show and people voted for him and then they found out what they got from it, which is nothing. in fact he destroyed the epa, he packed the supreme court with people who are going to take the rights of women away, go on, and on, and on. when people had a chance to vote again, they already didn't give him the popular vote this first time. the second time, biden won in a mini landslide. 7 million votes. so they didn't want trump, they booted him out, and that is probably what he is facing this time, assuming that he is not behind bars when the election happens. >> by the way, i should mention,

one of the things that trump and a lot of republicans are trying to say here is that electric vehicles are the real problem and they are really pushing that argument as a reason for workers to hold out for more concessions because they believe they are being thrown under the bus in a, quote, in their words, in the electric vehicle agenda. do you think there's a legitimate argument there? >> absolutely not. first of all, there's a whole different discussion you can have about electric vehicles as to what the problems are. but they're not the problems trump is talking about. trying is to once again just carry people, china's the enemy, et cetera et cetera. this has nothing to do, this is a struggle this fight over the fact that in 2009 the government, under barack obama and joe biden, asked the autoworkers to please cut their pay, cut their benefits, cut their pensions so that gm and chrysler and ford, but for didn't it the federal money, he

asked that they cut their money and they promised, the autoworkers, that if you help us we will reward you for that. you will get this back. it is now almost 15 years later and any new higher in 2009 thanks to what the uaw at the time agreed to was making $15. 48 an hour. any of those new hires that hired him in 09 in last year, their paycheck this last friday it was $15. 48 an hour, the same amount of money. here is the thing, abby. you can only humiliate people for so long. to humiliate the workers like this, they sacrificed so that these auto companies who drove themselves into the ground went bankrupt, they said that we will help, we will give all this up and they said thank, you we will make sure that you

get it back. well, they never got it back, so they have been hoodwinked and they are not going to give up this fight. in fact, i've got to say, the union has been very generous this week. they could have shut the whole thing down on thursday night. they only shut down three factories as a little flare over the bow to let the carmakers know that they have the power to crush them. they will shut the whole thing down, and not just 150,000 of uaw workers who would go on strike. this old shut down thousands of companies, distributors,, people who build parts for the auto industry, people who live in the towns around the auto industry. this will be catastrophic for the economy and they are lucky that the uaw is still giving

them a few more days to pony up. >> can i ask you to respond to this from republican presidential candidate tim scott. he was asked today by a voter about how he would respond the strike. >> they gave us a great example -- if you strike, your fired. a simple concept it to me, [inaudible] >> if you strike your fired. your response? >> how un-american can you get, to say something like that. we built the middle class in this country, those of us for my family, the autoworkers of my family, all the workers around this country, through their strikes, everybody got better pay, they got some time of, they got to go to the doctor. all of these things that created to the middle class. the next generation could go to

college and to praise ronald reagan, who kicked off really the disaster we are still living was when he did completely destroy the air traffic control issue in 81, it is -- i am so sorry that he said that. it reminds me, i hand a bunch of others went to an annual meeting of shareholders at general motors many years ago and we stepped up in the microphone and asked, do you consider yourselves an american company? they wouldn't answer the question. would you mind anybody on the board of directors a gm, they are all in the stage, would you mind is standing with us right now and staying the pledge of legions to the united states of america?

no, we will not do that. or an international, global corporation. well, that is very honest, thank you for making that clear. the american people need to know that you don't really give a rats whatever about us. you care about your own pockets, you care about getting wealthier and wealthier, and this year alone you have already made over 21 billion dollars in record profits the three car companies. so this is all, listen, the people have added. not just those who work in the car factories, but people who have not seen their wages go up at the rate they should go up, that is why they can't handle the inflation that we had last year, this is -- >> it's why we're seeing those strikes, not just here, but also in hollywood and other industries as well. >> chipotle and starbucks. >> there's a lot that's brewing here in this economy. michael moore, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you so much, thank you abby. >> coming up next, another fox conspiracy collapses. why the man who is accused of being a mole is now being charged in the insurrection. geraldo rivera joins me right now, live. plus, white house press secretary kareem jean pierre joins me onset as the ukrainian president gets the skeptical

welcome tonight in the united states.

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at this point, it's pretty obvious what a. ray apps, he became the focus

of right-wing conspiracies, after the capitol insurrection. with prominent figures you see there, on the right pushing this idea that his presence at the capitol that day, the lack of charges, was evidence that law enforcement had coerced trump supporters into action. but tonight, and epps is now officially facing a misdemeanor charge of disorderly, or disruptive conduct on restrictive grounds. epps it's expected to plead guilty at a hearing tomorrow afternoon. and joining me now is journalist and former fo x anchor geraldo rivera. geraldo, good to see you. so epps was there, because he was a trump supporter. we'll finally being charged now, mean anything to the people who have been pushing these conspiracies? >> i think that the ham-handed way the federal government has

handled the -- epps case will only exasperate these conspiracy notions. why in the world abby, you mention all the people who are in jail you know serving time, hundreds of them. many charged with felonies, some getting double digit. years and he is only charged a misdemeanor, why only a misdemeanor? why now, why two and a half years after this incident, why now? >> well geraldo. >> it's almost as if the department of justice wanted to,

anyway, go ahead. >> well i think we just have to put out there that, we will find out in a hearing this week the why of it all. and, ray epps it's going to plead guilty. these other january six defendants who are getting pretty lofty sentences are unrepentant. so there are some differences here, don't you think? >> well, if he pleads guilty as expected to the misdemeanor tomorrow, we will not have any instruments by which we could find the truth a belt ray epps. ? >> what do you mean the truth about ray epps? >> what do you mean by? that >> what happened on january six was because of donald trump. if epps pleads guilty, there is

no cross-examination, there is no probing discovery to find out what, if any role he played, other than being the schmuck that he is. obviously, he was one of the first online to charge the capitol cops, outside of the capital. i just think that, why wasn't he arrested a long time ago? why now, and why only after he is in the new york times, he does interviews with 60 minutes, you know. here is given his testimony to the congressional january 6th hearing committee. why only now, do they get around to, this guy has been in, everybody knows him now, why do they arrest him now, only now? why not two years ago, two and

a half years ago, why not when it happened. particularly because he was so -- >> ray epps has sued tucker carlson for defamation, for pushing these conspiracies. that was when tucker was still at fox. but he says that carlson and others, quote, turned on one of their own. look, you are asking all of these questions, why now, why all of this and that. but you are implying a lot of stuff here. there is no evidence of anything, except that this man was accused, falsely, of being a federal agent. and, now he has actually been charged with a crime. so, what are you implying, exactly? >> i imply nothing, other than to tell you that years ago, i

was i want to err this uprooted film, of the john f. kennedy assassination. it was 1975. i am the father of conspiracy television, i have not been able to shake that. this is another one of those cases, where are the federal government's ham-handed, of i use that word again, or two words. ham-handed approach, will only fuel conspiracy notions. this is a person that should have been arrested a very long time ago. i believe that responsibility for what happened on january six is primarily with donald trump. and a lot of other people, his minions, who drank the kool-aid, and they did something, some in character, like the proud boys and the oath keepers. others, who knows where they came, from and why they decided to attack the united states capitol. this handling of this case, these are questions that must be answered. otherwise, it will haunt us the way the kennedy assassination -- >> look, i have to say that you not agreeing, with or anybody not agreeing with how the federal government handled a particular case, doesn't make it okay to just make things up. that's not how this works. and so i think that at the end of the day, all timidly. but >> wait, what are we making

up the? >> well at the end of the day, he is being charged, and we will find out what he has actually been charged, and perhaps pleading guilty to. but to make. up >> it's been. >> but >> disorderly conduct. >> but to spin a whole yarn about how he worked for the federal government, and enticed trump supporters to attack the capitol as a plant, there is no evidence of that. and that is i think at the heart of what is going on in this story. but geraldo, we will have to leave it there, thank you very much for joining. us >> okay, i don't know how helpful i have been, but. >> well. >> again, trump is unfit to be president of the january 6th. >> thank, you have a good night. and president biden is at the u. n., making an urgent plea for ukraine. yet, a majority of americans want the u.s. to cut off support. i will speak of the white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre, who is here with, us coming up. next

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>> russia alone has the power to end this war immediately. and it is russia alone that stands in the way of peace. together with our our lives and partners around the, road who continue to stand with to brave people of ukraine, as they defend their sovereignty. >> that was president biden at the united nations, urging the world to stand firm in support of ukraine's fight against russia. but there are some signs here the night states of deepening republican divide on the issue of ukraine. >> i think it's going to be you know, more requests for money. in my position on that is,

clear my mind is made. up >> the consequences of pulling the plug on ukraine, are enormous. it will lead to more war, not less. >> there's nobody in the house right now for ukraine. which is why it's not there. i mean look, it's not a good time for him to be, here quite frankly. >> and joining me now to discuss all of this, and more, is white house press secretary karine jean-pierre. you heard it right there -- saying there is no money, but volodymyr zelenskyy it's pretty

committed to getting what he says ukraine. needs i want to play what he said about -- to our own wolf blitzer tonight, about what he wants from washington. >> just understand, -- that people died, of course guam this would be, for us, there will be a loss for us. if we won't be able to get that type of weapon. which will protect us. >> he is asking for a long range weapon. will the biden administration. are you confident he will be able to get? those >> so here's what i can say, you saw the president at the united general assembly today, which is the world stage. the world stage, not just for talking, clearly to the american people, but to the world, about how we see the future of the american leadership, right. and our leadership in the last two years in particular, with the president has been able to do, is to say that we have to work together to deal with the pressing issues in front of us. and that is what he has done, right, working with our allies,

working with our partners. and we have been able to do that in a way, so that we are helping ukraine. let's not forget what is happening in ukraine. russia did an unprovoked war, a brutal war, on the people of ukraine, where it is a sovereignty, their democracy is under attack. and we have come together, with the leadership of this president, bringing nature together, stronger than it's ever been before, to make sure that they are able to fight bravely, and continue to fight bravely on the ground to, have that protection. or to be able to fight on the battlefield. look, we believe that we will continue to see that strong bipartisan support that we saw in congress, continuing right,

to make sure that ukraine has all that they need. the security assistance that they need to fight. and so i can't speak to any specific thing that we may be able to provide, clearly when those conversations happened, they will happen. but we want to make sure that we are there for, them as long as it takes, as they are fighting for their freedom, that's what they are doing abby, for their democracy. >> to that point, president biden today, he gave a powerful denunciation of russia, he put the responsibility, obviously for the war on russia. but a lot of the responsibility for how this war and. and yet, just this past weekend, cnn's fareed zakaria spoke to mark milley, as the outgoing chairman of the joint chiefs. and he said, milley said that the 200,000 plus troops there are, from russia in ukraine, it's going to be, quote, a high bar to get them out. does president biden believe that there is a way out of this

war, without ukraine conceding? >> so a couple of things, there that you just said. look, when i was in the hall today, when the president was speaking on that world stage -- . and when he stop talk about russia, and what they have done, this aggression, and how we have to continue t hall. >> a big applause. >> it was a big applause line. and i think that is important as well, to note. look, we've always said that nothing about ukraine, nothing about ukraine without ukraine. we've always said that, it is something that they have to be part of that conversation, and we have been very, very clear about that. but we have said is that we

will be there as long as it takes, for the ukrainian people to continue to fight bravely, for their freedom, for their democracy. and i think that is really important. and that is what we saw the president do today, on that -- >> will president biden be willing to be a part of that negotiation, to help broker a negotiation between russia and ukraine? some republican presidential candidates have suggested that they could play that role, would president biden? >> so look, i know there has been plans foot put forward. we certainly have had conversations with the ukrainian government, we are going to be very careful here, right, we are gonna be very mindful, that we can have those conversations without the ukrainian people. but we have promised that we will make sure that they have the security assistance that they need, to continue to fight bravely, as we have seen them do. and look again, this is a war that russia started. this is an aggression that russia started. this is an unprovoked war, that russia started. and they could end this today, as we just saw from that clip that you all played from the president. they could end this today.

and so, we are going to be there as long as it takes, for the brave people of ukraine. >> i want to get you on some domestic issues, but especially this autoworkers strike that is ongoing right now. president biden had said on friday that he was dispatching top aides to michigan, to be a part of that negotiation. that trip is now not happening. what happened? >> so it was gene sperling, one of the president senior advisers, and also acting tech secretary -- . they have been working, and engaging with the parties for the past couple of weeks, helping in any way that we can. the president certainly believes that collective bargaining, that is something that the workers should be able to move forward with, and they should be able to do that, but it is up to them to come to a resolution, to have these negotiations. and so, the president certainly believes, that he is pro union, about the workers, about the uae -- and so there is a mutual decision, a mutual agreement, that was made by all parties,

so that jean and julie su were to not, go out this week just yet, to continue those conversations from washington d. c.. again, a mutual decision. and so, we give them the space to continue to negotiate uaw, and the big free, and so that's what we are doing. >> was it a mistake for president biden to say, recently, that he did not think that there would be a strike? >> well look, what the president has been very clear about is that he has been pro union, a pro union guy for a very long time, before he was present. and you see that, it shows in his record, and even shows these last two years, of what he has been able to do. he believes in collective bargaining, he believes in the right to strike, and he believes that it is up to these groups to come together, and

have this negotiation. we are helping in any way we can, we are engaging in any way we can. but look, he believes that corporate profits, if both companies are gonna have core, profits that the uaw is going to have a record contract. right, they are having these record profits, and so that is what's important to the president, he is about the unions, he has always said that there would be no middle class without the unions. >> there has been reportings in politico, and other outlets, there is a lot of negative feedback that came after these comments, including from congresswoman debbie dingell. is that accurate? >> look, i'm not going to get into any private conversations, everybody has their opinions, and that is important. what i can speak is the president's record, when it comes to being pro union, what he has done these last two years. and, he is going to continue to do that work. he is going to continue to say collective bargaining is important, he is going to continue to say he believes in the right to strike, and he is going to continue to say we have to make sure that when we talk about the unions, we talk about the middle class, both of them work together, and it is important to have. that >> any consideration of a trip down to michigan? >> we are going to support and engage, the best way that we can, and the president is going to continue to support uaw, and also. >> but not to go himself? >> i am there are many things to share an injury, for anything like that. but we support certainly the uaw workers, and we believe that they should have a record contract, just like the companies have a record prock. >> karine jean-pierre, thank you so much for joining us in studio. and coming up next for us, the disturbing sexual assault allegations against comedian russell brand, now getting political. that story ahead. plus, how a football star went from the super bowl to prison. kaitlan collins has his story, coming up next.

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who are making huge differences in the world, with new ideas, and fresh approaches. 20 years, ago kaitlan collins champion riled up alabama fans as a running back for the -- today sherman williams is now a beloved community mentor. in between, though he talked some heartstrings. >> what was it like growing up here? >> tough, rough, but it builds character >> i just wanted to try to make, it, survive and get out >> i want to -- in this stadium. >> you had a ton of records that you broke. >> yes. >> 3000 yards? >> in a single season. >> football is everything in the south, especially in alabama, and especially in small towns like the one where sherman grew up in it is something the entire community bases itself around. when he signed that scholarship to come to the university of alabama, he became a football legend. >> it must bring back a lot of memories to be in here? >> yes tradition, everything that comes along with that >> touchdown >> when you did that damage, you also had a dance that you did. >> it was my signature >> down, set, hut [laughter] >> you have to shake, and then

you have two quake to go with it. >> when will you drafted? >> 1990, five nfl trough, drafted 96 overall pick for the dallas cowboys in the second round and on my rookie year won the super bowl. >> he was at the top of the world. then, he got cut from the team that is when he got into trouble. >> why were you arrested? >> distribution and conspiracy of marijuana. >> what was your sentence? >> my overall sentence was 15 years and eight months >> while you were incarcerated, your mom has to weigh. >> that was part probably the most damaging thing about being incarcerated it was also part of the motivation to move forward, and be a part of the change. >> sherman williams was still serving his prison sentence when he had this idea for what eventually became the palmer williams group. today with david palmer who he played football with, they wanted to start something they could reach disadvantaged youth >> when i was released from prison, it was not about -- it was about how many people came to help.

>> are you already for some football? >> yes. >> set, go, go get, him go get him. i mentor, kids they find scholarships, it was so much more than the sport that you see. >> one, two, three, cowboys. >> see you monday. >> i have siblings, i'm proud of, them and being a role model, i know how to do that. >> football was our initial sport, but now we have basketball, baseball, soccer, and a cheer program. we want to make sure we are able to provide that resource to the children at no cost. that was something we did not have the opportunity to do as children. >> and even beyond sports, it is also about financial literacy, scholarship, entrepreneurship. >> do you see yourself in those kids ever? >> all the time maybe we can prevent some of those children

from going in the same situations asked myself. >> after you were released from prison, you came back here to finish your degree. >> sherman c williams senior. >> you try to motivate children to go to college, and what better example for me to have a college degree. i think that the palmer williams group is more dear to me now, then winning the super bowl. that is going to be the most significant purpose in my existence. >> and, abby, of course it was so special to be able to go down through alabama, my home state, and talk to sherman, and talk to those who know him. his friends, former teammates, it was really something special for our team to see how he has gone from these moments where typically you would define success, winning a national championship in alabama, getting that super bowl ring with the dallas cowboys, but to hear him there as we said, this he believes will be more meaningful than the other accomplishments he has had in his life. really, it just puts it into perspective the way he views success where he is now after spending those years in prison. obviously, a big thanks for sherman and sharing his story with us. and helping put that together, and such a beautiful way that they tell a story. >> it is a really powerful story. thank, you caitlin, and be sure to tune in on eight pm eastern for champions for change, one

hour special. and that is it for me. -- getting that super bowl run, but dallas cowboys. as you heard him at the, and this, he believes, will be more really puts it into perspective the way he views success, where he is now, especially after spending those years in prison. and obviously a big thanks to sherman for sharing his story with us, and