55 years old he could take on the top women player and win with $100,000 on the line. billie jean king went on to win in straight sets in front of the global audience, and also 90 million people who were also watching, making it the most watched tennis history in history still to this day. the victory bolstered king's fight for equal pay in tennis, a cause that she continued to fight for decades. a bipartisan commission is underway to award king a congressional gold medal for her work in women's rights. looking back at her triumph, the tennis icon said quote, it was more than a tennis match, it was a catalyst for social change in one of the most important days of my life. we've come a long way since 1973, but we are not done yet. let's keep going for it. powerful words from her there. thank you so much for joining us tonight. cnn prime time with abby phillips starts right now. thanks so much kaitlin. an important moment for all of us.

and good evening everyone i'm abby phillips. in just a few moments i'll speak to chris wallace about some big developments from the campaign trail, including donald trump taking heat for the abortion issue. and perhaps that democrats are getting too cocky. but first, as people fight over hoodies and bikinis on the senate floor, in just nine days the american government is scheduled to shut down. that means that agencies and parks will close, the men in uniform who serve this nation won't be paid. your flights they may not take off on time everything from cancer trials to food inspections will stop and it will cost the economy billions of dollars. it's because house republicans right now are in full powerlessness over infighting. just moments ago, house speaker kevin mccarthy introduced a vague measure that would extended measure another 30 days, heating caving to some of the demands by the hard-liners

in his caucus. but again that's only a short term bill. we will be right back here in a month. the hard-liners, they want more promises and more permanent spending cuts, and on border restrictions among other things. one of those republicans joins me now, that's congressman tim -- of tennessee. welcome congressman thank you for being out of this. >> thank you for having us on. >> we have some new reporting that speaker mccarthy laid out for you and other members in a meeting tonight a plan that would keep the government open for 30 days and would do that at levels of four of one point 47 trillion dollars of spending. it also adds a commission to address the debt and border security in that package. my question to you is, are you on board with this plan? >> no, i am not currently. the packages you described, we

take in around five trillion dollars a year and conservative estimates say we are probably in a spend seven trillion dollars a year. we just passed 33 trillion dollars in debt and these commissions, they don't have any legislative ability, and if we give them that, we are violating the constitution by giving someone authority over ourselves. we've had these by partisan blue ribbon committees in the past ma'am. elections have consequences and my folks back home are saying quit spending this much money. a continued resolution is just that, it's a 30-day fix. how in the world to the 50 states manage? they pass a budget. i'm sure your family as a budget, my family has a budget, church or synagogue has a budget. every charity in the country as a budget except the united states government. ma'am, we haven't passed a budget since the 70s, since the 70s. now jody arrington, god bless him from texas, chairman of the budget committee, i used to serve on, i asked to come off of it because they didn't do

anything, has not formulated a budget that we can balance our budget within ten years. now if you do the math, within eight years if we continue down this path, the single largest item in our budget will be interest. this is not sustainable. this country will collapse. >> so i'm hearing you say right now you are a no on what speaker mccarthy is proposing that will come to a vote this week. >> yes ma'am. >> would you support any continuance resolution, a short term continuing resolution no matter what? >> never say never ma'am, but someone the ways to get someone off heroin is not to give them more heroin. and the way to get the country of these so-called continued resolutions is has to stop passing these continue resolutions. let's get the adults, let's get in the room let's see what's

important, quit with the giveaway programs. we give 114 uncheck billion dollars to ukraine yet the poor people in maui are suffering, the people in pennsylvania with the chemical spill. every time there is a national catastrophe, we seem to be able to find the money for someone overseas yet our own people are suffering. look at the eaw out there after we gave the automakers huge amounts of money to develop these basically nonexistent electric vehicles, and yet by doing that we deflated the economy, we caused inflation. now the autoworkers can't survive on the amount of money that there were making. >> so how many others are there like you? how are a no right now in your conference? >> her seventh locked in concrete, i would say there's probably for others that are pretty close and there's a couple of other wildcards out there. it only takes three. >> so when matt gaetz your

colleague says there are seven, he said that today that there are seven who would vote no, no matter what, he is correct in that? and as he speak for you, are you part of the seven? >> well nobody speaks for me, but yes ma'am if you are gonna count the seven, i am one of those and that is correct. >> and you are saying that there are at least three more who are also unlikely to agree to this. >> yes ma'am. excuse me ma'am. and there's a couple more due to whatever reason don't want their name out and i understand that because you end up taking a lot of abuse and name-calling. the reality ma'am, we have known estate september 30th, it comes round every year, yet what do we do the month of august? we go home and work from home, we did constituent service back home. i probably work harder at home that i do here, but still we spent the whole month of august at home, we come back in, we say it will never gonna do this, we're not gonna be like to democrats, yet here we are. here's what will happen, will

pass continuing resolution, will come back in 30 days, pass another continued resolution. i will try to pass what's called an omnibus, and this is what gets us in 33 trillion dollars of debt ma'am. we passed these huge package s unlike nancy pelosi said we have to pass it so we know what's in it. readout what's in your district and then you vote for the bill. that's why we're 32 trillion dollars in the hall. >> i hear what you are saying. congress did go away for six weeks and way to the last second to deal with this issue. the congressman, i am wondering about the votes. you're saying this is gonna go the way everything else is going, it's gonna pass against continuing resolution, where these votes are gonna come from? and speaker mccarthy has to reach across the aisle to democrats in order to get the votes in order to fund the government, would you try to move to vacate him from the speakership? >> haven't really put much thought into that ma'am, i'm more worried about the collapse of our country and our monetary system, but that is a viable option.

it's very much a viable option. there's a lot of people talking about it. >> so would you at this moment if you are no, there could be very well a no deal on this proposal. we are getting closer and closer to a government shutdown. are you willing to allow a government shutdown to get what you are demanding? >> ma'am, a government shutdown is the worst thing possible. we means we have capitulated on our duties, which we have. which this congress has, which this government has done ever since i've been here five years and every year we've done the same thing. democrats or republicans. we're finally just finding the same and amount of people with backbone to say enough is enough. we're not spending this much money. >> so that's a yes on a government shutdown? >> if it happens, it happens. it doesn't have to happen. leadership can come to us with a conservative budget. we can pass jodey arrington's budget which he has worked very hard to do but because of egos

and other things, they will pat him on the head and say he did a great job and give him his ten minutes incan fronts to explain it, but it goes against the status quo. it's about staying in power and that's what both parties do ma'am. the democrats they spend all this money on these woke programs and what do we do? we spend all this money on missile defense programs and both parties own stock in it. it just never ends ma'am. and that's really somebody's gonna say enough is enough and we have to say they sent us to washington to do this job and we're gonna do. it lets balanced budget. the one thing we are required to do is to pass a budget. yet for 30 years we have thrown that duty away. the american public knows it. >> on that i think everyone agrees. it is congresses responsibility to get that stuff done. congressman, some news there that you are one of seven holdouts on this new proposal from speaker mccarthy. thanks for joining us tonight at all that.

>> thank you ma'am. >> and from chaos on the hill to competition on the campaign trail. a brand-new cnn poll shows support in new hampshire for governor ron desantis is tumbling as his rivals battle him for second place. joining me now to discuss all this is cnn anchor and host of who's talking with chris wallace, chris wallace himself. chris, thanks for being here tonight. it looks like in new hampshire they're not all that into ron desantis, it's pretty remarkable. donald trump in this new poll is the clear front runner, he's a 39% support. but there is a four way tie or tie enough for the margin of error for second place and, desantis's job 13 points is now 10%, there's chris christie it 11, haley at 12. to me this is one of the first times we have really seen a lot of movement, and it's not the kind of movement that ron desantis has been hoping for.

>> i agree, that's the lead to this poll. desantis has dropped 13 points since july, more than half of his support is gone and especially among moderates. you know, he was in a tier, he wasn't up there with trump, but he was certainly in a tier of those other guys, and not only now is the not second, i guess he's running's fifth or sixth or something and ramaswamy is actually in the lead in the second tier. but it doesn't have the majority support for these seem nationally and other states, but he's still at 39% and is his closest contender ramaswamy is a 13. i think he would take that. i think it's also bad news for chris christie. there's one state where he's got to do well it's in a more moderate republican state like new hampshire. he's down at about 11%. >> still a little bit better than ron desantis though i must say.

>> but if he finishes at that low with less than a third of the support of trump, i don't know how he would continue, and as you say the lead desantis in real trouble at least in new hampshire. >> his campaign would say they are focusing on iowa, but polls like this are really bad for momentum which is important at this stage. chris, i want to turn to the other topic frankly here in washington which is what's going on on capitol hill in terms of a potential impeachment. there were some interesting remarks from a staunch supporter of former president trump and that's republican senator j. d. stanch. he told axios quote if we get too far ahead of the evidence, then yeah i think the american people will penalize us. this is really kind of saying out loud what is known, which

is that there is not a ton of evidence yet. do you think there is a risk here that the impeachment inquiry could backfire on republicans? >> there certainly is a risk. look at this way abby, if i were to ask you what was the clinton impeachment about, we would say monica lewinsky's blue dress. if i have to say what was the first trump impeachment about, we say was about's phone call with zelenskyy. if you ask about what this impeachment inquiries, not an actual impeachment yet, you say hunter biden, what was hunter biden doing overseas. there isn't any at least at this point they are there and unless they find it in the course of this inquiry, i think that's a problem for republicans. i also think that regardless of whether they find it, and impeachment inquiry is going to increase the pressure on speaker mccarthy to actually go for impeachment. >> and it's a really important point that it may very well be that all of this bees and's up being a coin toss as to how it flies with the american people being in biden's favor or against biden. on that front, we are seeing these reports that the biden white house is advising all these anxious democrats to relax, to chill out. they are hoping and telling them that the issue of abortion and just donald trump being in the race could be enough to propel biden to reelection.

is that over confidence in this kind of you know even steven electorate that we have here on between the two parties? it almost seems like it perhaps could go either way an d that is wishful thinking that they can just rely on trump to win the day? >> first of all, it's exactly what you would exactly expect the biden white house in the biden campaign to say. they're not gonna say, it's time to panic. so obviously, it's very much to their advantage to say chile.

have to say and i've been doing this along time as you know, i don't know that i've ever seen such a disconnect between what the democratic establishment is saying, what a party structure is saying and what the mood seems to be among voters. because you keep hearing the sense of well, you know trump is going to be a real hindrance to republicans, abortion is a very strong issue now with the overturning of roe for democrats. but the fact is if you ask the voters in poll after poll, the most recent poll, two thirds of democrats say that they would prefer to see someone else as the democratic nominee. >> i think the white house and the biden campaign's argument is twofold. one, a last midterm elections, voters were just as unhappy with the choices between the two parties, but it was abortion that made a huge difference for them. and even back in the last presidential in 2020 between

biden and trump, you could argue democrats didn't think that biden will get out of the primary and he did as a nominee after doing really poorly in the first two nominating contests. there is that, but look, past is not always prologue. i think you and i know that as people watch politics. you can't always bank on what has happened in the past. one last thing chris before i let you go. in the halls of the senate, old customs a die hard. all but three republican senators have now published a letter to the senate majority leader chuck schumer criticizing his decision there to relax the chambers dress code. that move was seen at least in response to senator john fetterman's preference to wearing shorts and a hoodie and there is on the screen looking as comfortable as ever. you covered capitol hill for a long time. i've been in those halls.

i remember having to wear a jacket even when it's 100 degrees outside in d. c.. what do you make about the squabble over the dress code on capitol hill? >> you're asking the wrong guy because as you know seeing me in the fall, i wear a tie >> -- dress to the nines! >> every day, maybe not saturdays but almost all the time. maybe there is some pending. i know that business casual has become the fashion or whatever, but really? in the united states senate, a hoodie and shorts and sneakers? i'm not easily offended and if they're gonna go on this way, it's not the end of the republic, but she, it does seem to me they're saying that fetterman can dress like that. then you had susan collins very proper republican senator from maine saying maybe she will wear a bikini. i actually think it was a question of signing on the line about we need to have some sort of dresscoat that is a little better than the fetterman standard, i probably would've signed it. >> we'll look, to be fair there

are some republicans who've just out in the senate as well. there is ted cruz. he sometimes likes to wear his workout clothes on the hill. former senator richard burr in a polo shirt and shorts and flip-flops. let's be honest, when it comes to decorum i don't think the dress code is the problem over on capitol hill. this is been a pretty rowdy congress if you ask me. is this just making hay out of something that doesn't matter? much >> abby, when it's dark with the tie, it's a slippery slope, i don't know where it goes from. there >> he knows what could happen if god forbid you wear shorts? god forbid, women wear sleeveless dresses. capitol hill stay the same always. chris wallace, you stay the same as well. thanks for joining us. >> thanks. >> and coming up next. former trump aide cassidy hutchinson's accusing rudy giuliani of sexual assault. her former colleague, alyssa farah griffin joins me next. plus the usually calm merrick

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cassidy hutchinson. she is a member of the former trump house aide who gave that bombshell testimony to the house january 6th committee. but in a new book that is coming out next week, hutchinson claims that rudy giuliani groped her backstage at trump's january 6th rally on the ellipse that preceded the attack on the capital. joining me now to discuss this allegation is cnn political commentator alyssa farah griffin. she's the former white house trump communications director and someone who knows cassidy personally. but these allegations are very serious and very damning. she said giuliani put her his hand under her skirt, or on her blazer, then her skirt while they were backstage during trump's speech. she told you about this? >> i trust her implicitly. remember about two years ago her alluding to something, i don't want to the words, that she either he's creepy or hanzi with me.

but the put in a bigger context, those who are working with the west wing at that time, rudy giuliani was a wildcard, he was unpredictable. being careful how i say this, there were concerns, i don't know if it was true that he would come to the white house inebriated. that was up to something to the former presidents level. they wouldn't let him do television at the white house lawn, the cautious what meeting he is in. and frankly a pattern of behavior makes sense to me, it doesn't surprise me. it's horrifying, it doesn't make it acceptable, and just big picture, this is such a historic, horrifying, bad moment for our country, this rally that's happening on the ellipse the, attempt to overthrow the election. and this moment this is also happening. i don't think he can really process how significant that is but i believe her implicitly. >> layers upon layers here and just so people understand, this idea that rudy giuliani was inebriated as come up before. on the night of the election for example, that is been reported.

but have you ever witnessed giuliani ever doing inappropriate things, other women being concerned about being around him? >> my sense with giuliani was i didn't witness so much probably the sexual harassment. there was a sense that he was not in control of himself, that he was somebody who's liable to say anything, to do anything, there is a sense among women in the white house that you didn't want to be around him. i think they're maybe not unspoken idea that there's something off here, you don't want to be near him near him. and by the way, the former president knew it. even though they've been friends for many years, and there's times that they were close, he obviously called him in the white house called in the council that he did not want, he recognized that rudy giuliani was not the man he was 20 or 30 years ago. he recognized and openly talked about the fact that he had been debilitated from who we previously was. >> a giuliani spokesperson and political adviser gave this statement about the allegations saying it's fair to ask cassidy hutchinson why she's just now

coming out with these allegations from two and a half years ago as part of the marketing campaign for her upcoming book release. this is a disgusting lie against mayor rudy giuliani, a man whose distinguished career and public service includes taking on the mafia, cleaning up new york city and comforting the nation following september 11th. what's your response? just to play devil's advocate, this is coming up when she's writing a book. >> keep in mind the context of this. cassidy hutchinson stayed after january six for several months, was trying to figure out where her footing would be and what she wanted to do next. we were horrified by the events that happen. it was only once the legal ramifications caught up with donald trump that she felt empowered to tell what she had seen and trying to overturn the election, the president's actions, what was happening in the west wing. she's dealing with things that are so much bigger than herself. i don't speak for her, but i think this was probably almost something you put in the back of your mind, because she's there testifying in open

congress against the former president the united states. she sitting down with the department of justice in the fulton county district attorney, so i can't speak to that but i will say this. that statement reads like it was written 25 years ago when rudy giuliani was a former respected mayor. this is a person was diminished himself in every single way. he's proven himself completely unfit to be advising anyone who's in office and i completely stand by what cassidy said. >> so much has changed for giuliani in that time, but to your point about all the things that cassidy is going through both publicly and privately, she writes in her book. trump continues to hurl insults in my direction. i learned how to it feels to be on the other side but i know enough not to react. that's what he wants me to do, he wants me to be defensive, he wants me to know when he's hurt someone and getting arise out of them. he wants to project as her under the source of it.

trump doesn't care if you dispute him or call him a liar, only silence bothersome. being ignored drives him mad. do you agree? >> spot on on that. i've seen so many people take the bait and goaded into fights with him. the best thing that someone it was an attack with him is to ignore it. he also takes it very harshly when women criticizing we speak out against him. we've seen it on this network. he's come after kaitlan collins. she is spot on on in her analysis. >> i think attention is the greatest currency for donald trump and think she understands. alyssa farah griffin, thank you very much. >> and breaking news tonight, the biden administration will now offer work permits to nearly half 1 million migrants as pressure mounts from blue states. new york's governor kathy hochul just met with president biden right here in new york city. she joins me live next.

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breaking news tonight. as migrant crossings at the border surge again, the biden administration moments ago announcing it will offer work permits and temporary legal status to nearly half a million migrants. this comes as president biden faced pressure from blue states

including the state of new york. let's discuss this with new york's own governor kathy hochul who met with president biden just this week. when you met with president biden, was this one of the things? did you get a commitment from him in that meeting to do something like this? >> we have been talking to the president, the white house, the secretary of homeland security for many months, well over a year about our desire to have federal support for money, locations, but also work authorization. because you have people here who are in shelters supported by the city, mayor apps is doing an extraordinary job but they can't work so top of my list as been temporary protective status for venezuelans. yes, we talk spoke about it louis with yesterday with the president he took, me off nieces in her stance announcement will come today. >> why did it take so long? i've >> obviously there's a lot of competing interests. you have to be certainly not gonna --

support a policy that's gonna draw a lot of people. places like new york really are at capacity. we have large hearts that want to be generous and support of a humanitarian crisis, but there is a limit to what we can do. so the fear would probably be and i don't speak for them, but you have to ensure that we also have controls at the borders and not welcome even more people to come we think they are going to come for the jobs. this is a good approach and i think the president having a limit, this is for people who came for before july 31st, so it's not an enticement for more to come after. i think that was an important consideration. but also really does have to slow down at the border because it keeps growing and growing. >> it only applies to venezuelans in this is a huge chunk of, people off almost half 1 million people. but you think these people have a measurable effect on the problems that new york is facing? >> it's really will, because about 41% of the people in our shelters today are from venezuela. they're from around the world, west africa, south and central america, they are coming from

all over. we have to let the word out, that when you come to new york, we're not gonna have more hotel rooms. we don't have capacity. we have to message properly that we are at our limit. if you are going to leave your country, go somewhere else, but the smartest thing is to apply for asylum before you leave your country and then you have a different experience when you arrive. we're just trying to deal now the crisis we have. we have to get the people out of shelters and into jobs. we have a shortage of workers. >> some people have said that new york's right, its mandate for shelter is a draw for people to come here. they've called on it for either to be paused or rescinded. would you support anything like that? >> yes i would, because the original presses behind right to shelter started for homeless man on the streets. people who are experiencing aids, then it was expanded to families. that is the right thing to do. never was it in the invasion that it would be an unlimited, universal right or obligation on the city to have to house literally the entire world.

>> would you like to see it go away entirely? >> no, this is one of the reasons we don't have an enormous homeless problem. we have about 4500 people on the streets of new york tonight. that is far too many. other states, los angeles, san francisco, they have tens of thousands, 90,000 people. we want to make sure that no families and up on the streets. we don't want anything to happen to our children. but we also have to let the world know that there has to be limits to this. there is a limit to what we can handle as a state and it's financially going to start ensuring that there are cuts and services. the mayor has said this. this state of new york is already committed 1. 7 billion dollars alone this year, and we're starting to plan for next year. it's a huge drain, but it's also an opportunity to take care of the people who've arrived from venezuela. their conditions in their own country makes us realize that

they don't have anything to go back to. >> mayor adams did not meet with president biden this week. he has been very vocal. he has a certain as he says a certain style. but it seems like that relationship has become strained. has that made it harder for new york to get what it needs to solve this problem? know what i'm working closely with the mayor and his style and i have mine. i went to the white house spent two and a half hours a couple of weeks ago. i was very persistent and something has to change right now. i'm not gonna speak to that we're allies in this together a. white house understands it's. they're not trying to hurt the mayor, they're not trying to hurt the city. this is an important first step for, us to manage the amount of people are in shelters. have employed state government as an hour ago. i have 16 agencies, 70 volunteers identifying

individuals who can benefit and let's get them into the jobs we have. >> just real quick before we go. does this make you understand better what border cities have been going through for years? >> of course we do, of course we do. we need a strong federal immigration policy full stop. and that's why instead of talking about shutting down the government, i'm calling on the night republican members of congress from new york and the rest of our republican leadership in washington to do the right thing and meet with president biden and come up with a comprehensive immigration plan the deals with the border but also take care of of the people here. that's what we need. >> governor kathy hochul thank you so much for joining us tonight is for such's notice short notice for breaking news. coming up next. at attorney general merrick garland is probably cooling off after a fiery hearing before the house judicial after which he was grilled on the indictments of donald trump and hunter biden. >> i am not the president's lawyer. i will add, i am not congresses

prosecutor. the justice department works for the american people. >> you don't recollect whether you talk with anybody at fbi headquarters about investigation into the president's son? >> i don't believe that i did. >> are you in fact in contempt of congress when you refused to answer? >> my colleague just said the eu should be held in contempt of congress and that is quite rich, because the guy who is leading the hearing right now, mr. jordan is about 500 days into evading his subpoena. >> was the president telling the truth or was he lying when he said that president biden told you to indict him? >> no one has told me to indict and in this case the decision to indict was made by the special counsel. >> every lawyer who has ever practiced and understands the implications of allowing statutes of limitations to expire. do you not even know as you sit here whether they're kurd or not? >> i left it to mr. wise what

other bring charges or. not >> i'm not asking for excuses, i'm asking whether you are or where that facts are. >> i'll say it again, and again and if necessary. i did not interfere with, did not investigate -- >> see those are statements >> joining me now is congressman steve cohen. he's a member of the house judiciary committee. congressman, quite the chaotic hearing today on capitol hill. were you satisfied with how the attorney general answered your questions and also those of your republican counterparts? >> i think merrick garland answers officially and honestly. everything is done is to provoke justice in the rule of law. they don't see that because they are supporting donald trump and everything he does. and this whole hearing was to try to help donald trump show some sort of how about-ism. they did this to them, they're doing this to us, the justice department is weaponized. if the justice department were weaponized, they would've not prock secured it michael cohen,

of course that was bill barr. when donald trump should've been prosecuted as individual one. merrick garland didn't go after individual one even last about some on several occasions. isaias leahy was the one who was involved with michael cohen and did go to jail, and he didn't go after donald trump on an easy case. >> obviously a big topic of the hearing today was to what extent if any was there any level of the doj and the decisions the charging decisions as it relates to hunter biden. and the attorney general he pretty flatly rejected allegations that this hunter biden investigation was tainted by politics. he said he didn't interfer e

with the probe in any way, but how can he know if there was no interference if he wasn't involved? >> well, he wasn't involved and that's the interference that would've taken place.

i don't know that anyone underneath him, there's no reason to suspect anyone else did. the suggestion was that he was the only person who's above mr. weiss and the only person who could've interfered in that. >> why did merrick garland appointed a special prosecutor david weiss why didn't he sooner? i think that's one of the other key questions here if that was one of the key ways to project to the public that this was an investigation that was going to be done without any sort of appearance of political pressure? >> i think merrick garland is a man of such rectitude that he doesn't even conjure up the thoughts that have been expressed by republicans, that there could've been interference. he gave mr. weiss, when i give a special prosecutor status to full authorities to conduct the investigation and go forward with the facts that he found and how they needed to be dealt with the law to make indictments as necessary. he allowed that to happen. >> don't you think though that it would've been helpful if attorney general garland were able to say why he decided on a special counsel? his decision-making process to go there? wouldn't that go a little bit of a ways to help alleviate some of the concerns that some americans might have about how this investigation is being handled? >> not really. i think most of the concerns are simply being donald trump through jim jordan and matt gaetz and others all those on the judiciary committee, many of those were involved in january six. and asked for pardons, trying to do political things, just trying to raise issues with th e

public's mind which have no merit whatsoever. the impeachment of joe biden with no facts whatsoever is just an alpha to our constitution. you're supposed to have the facts before you do anything in the way of an investigation. they have no scintilla of evidence that joe biden act benefited from hunter biden's activities. >> republicans also questioned today the attorney about hunter biden's former business pardon devin archers testimony to the oversight committee, where archer said that hunter was selling the illusion of access to his father. would you say that selling the illusion of access by a family member of a vice president or a president is appropriate or ethical? >> i don't think it's appropriate and i don't necessarily think it's ethical. but i don't think the way hunter biden thinks. there's nothing even devin archer said that and apparently is true. he also said that joe biden didn't do anything wrong, and he said it many times. because hunter biden tried to make an inference that mr. big or whoever was involved or listening, doesn't mean he got anything out of it out of hunter biden's escapades. i think hunter biden is a whole different issue for the president of the united states. >> congressman steve cohen,

busy week right now on capitol hill, thank you for joining us tonight. >> you're very welcome. >> and just in, donald trump just threw a curveball into the already contentious talks to avoid it government shutdown. what he's now demanding republicans do. next. nor puddles of water, nor unexpected detours with a 20 foot drainage pipe, can stop the ruggedly capable telluride x-pro from getting you to your dinner reservation on time. ♪ okay! ♪

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so at the top of the show you are my interview with one of the seven republican hard-liners were threatening now to shut down the government, and just moments ago kevin mccarthy's headache just got a little bit worse. donald trump's has now come out against that short term spending bill, demanding that republicans defund the investigations into him as part of the negotiations.

joining me now is former chief of staff to former vice president mike pence marc short. so marc, that's quite a the man from the former president. when you make of this? >> it's your it is. reality is abby, we're now 33 trillion dollars in debt. for members that want to say enough is enough, and dresses, roughly 70% of our spending is on -- that's not even on the table. what we're talking about is a fraction are deficit and, overthrowing in new -- to it as well. seems like we're headed towards a shutdown at this point. >> you heard tim burchett, he's one of seven, that's more than enough to stop it, says or three more considering no, when i asked him whether he'd be willing to shut down the government, he said basically whatever happens happens. >> i think practically the reality is it that bill is not passing the house, weakens kevin's hands. so the only left with the set of dollars, even more spending that what i was good negotiate. the their inability to

ultimately pass something is going to lead to a shutdown and, to set a bill that would lead to more spending. >> so this just brinkmanship for the second brinkmanship? >> i think. so i think there is a time when a lot of these fights were grounded in principle, i think now they're grounded in performance artist, want to get more clicks in interviews. i think it's harder and harder to track about what they're fighting about. if the argument was spending, then why don't they address what's driving our deficits. nobody's even trying to do that. >> they are also being egged on by the former president on this particular fight. i do want to get to some of these political headlines because trump earlier this week really tried to walk back a lo t of stuff on abortion and

criticized republicans for going too far on a six-week abortion ban. but the thing is marc, it does seem like he is responding to where polls say the american public is. so is it really all that wrong? >> well, i think the president deserves enormous an amount of credit to appoint judges to overturn roe versus wade. but i think it's also very uncomfortable on this topic i, think it's not something he's always wanted to talk about, he's walked away from. i think where he is today's basically saying, i'm going to negotiate. what does that mean? which and more lives do you negotiate away for his future conversations? so it's also saying, the unborn children in california or illinois or new york deserve less of a right to life than those in red states. i think the position is confusing. i think for those in the conservative movement who are pro-life, it's pretty consistent. >> is it a betrayal? he ran hard on an abortion message? >> he did and i believe history will give him credit for delivering conservative appointments. i think he's walking away from the legacy. >> i want to talk about this

new cnn poll in new hampshire. the headline here is really a drop off the cliff ron desantis. but your former boss mike pence is at 2% in this poll. why? >> i would probably have a different headline on this abby, and i think the narrative has been that this is destined to be a trump versus biden election. it could have an incumbent president and former president running and you're saying that 61% of the electors are looking for an alternative. i think thick basically -- >> nobody else is getting more than 15%. >> but they see it says there's room for growth, as 61% is up for grabs. i think a lot of this break slate abby. i think you've seen a lot of people who've spent money early who run out of resources. somebody who spent 100 million dollars to drop 20% in the polls. >> he in the last debate really went after vivek ramaswamy who has surged. it seem like that didn't work. >> i don't know. i think since that last debate you've seen vivek get called up for from both the right and

left for being a fraud. i think for the vice president, he seemed to make an argument about where our party should be going far as consistent conservative principles. and draw that contrast. >> if he doesn't do well in new hampshire, would he stay in the race? >> i think that that is a long way off. i think there's a long way to happen between now and new hampshire, and i think that hopefully in these debates the american people will get to see him present his case that he is a true conservative in this race. >> we'll see in the debates. marc short, thank you for joining us. >> abby, thanks for having me. >> and coming up tonight, the >> and coming up tonight, the senate confirming a ne you get listening more than talking, and a personalized plan built on insights and innovative technology. you get grit, vision, and the creativity to guide you through a changing world. ♪

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tonight the senate voting to confirm general charles q brown to be the next chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. general brown previously served as a chief of the air force and takes over from retiring general mark milley. he's only the second black man to serve as chairman following general colin powell. it was a confirmation along with 300 other military promotions being held up by alabama republican senator tommy tuberville, but majority leader chuck schumer moved to get his nomination to move. that's it for me, cnn prime time, and cnn tonight with laura coates starts tonight. always a great show as always abby, and good evening everyone, i am laura coates, welcome to cnn tonight. there are new bombshell accusations against rudy giuliani. cassidy hutchison as you recall claims in a brand-new book that rudy giuliani groped her backstage at the rally that preceded the insurrection at the capitol.

we've got a lot more to come not the president's lawyer, nor congress' prosecutor. with all of this a preview of what's to come next week, when house republicans will launch their inquiry of president biden. plus, two colorado cops going on trial today, in the death of this young