murdoch's not to mention the loss of their prime time star tucker carlson. so what will murdoch's plus will kevin mccarthy have a job for very long? one big fail, no deal in sight for the government shutdown looming next week. is there anything we can do to stop this run away train? and the best selling authors who say open ai is illegally using their copyrightwork. rupert murdoch's company tangled

up. the whole story something out of succession. >> this is not the end. i'm going to build something better. something faster. lighter. leaner wilder, and i'm going to do it from in here, with you. you're (bleep) pirates! >> looks like someone who knows fox news from the inside. a man who spent more than 20 years there, journalist jeraldo rivera. i was interested in talking to you, because murdoch is stepping down. there are comparisons long been drawn between him and the character you just saw, logan roy. but i want to contextualize from somebody who knows this most. what is the significance of his

departure from fox news? >> well, he's the founding father, not just fox news but a media ex pyre that's made him one of the richest people on earth. he's a genius i think, his greatest discovery is that half the people in the english speaking world feel they are not heard on things like abortion, immigration, gun reform and climate change. he discovered that. he created this empire to serve that population. it has served him well. he got jammed up in the all that dominion tuesday buff he has always been nice to me, kind to me, generous, when they cut my salary in back when they had a bike cut back, during the pandemic, i said boss this is not right. he called downtowns and he said,

okay restore some of that cut. i see him as a good boss, a vibrant, charismatic guy, still full of verve and energy, at 92 years old. his mother lived to be almost 104, so why he's quitting now laura. >> it has a christopher columbus quality about it, people feel disenfranchised, strides to having a more inclusive democracy but i've often wonderfulled about rupert murdoch. was he someone a true believer in the substance of the causes of those who were disenfranchised or was he a businessman, which was it?

>> you know, i don't have a sincerity meter. i can only tell you that there's nothing that i have seen between the private or smip private rupert murdoch and the public person. i think when you see the testimony he gave during the dominion lawsuit for example, he was very matter of fact. he divested himself or put distance between himself and some of his own talent. >> he was forced to admit that fox news host actually promoted lies about the election, lies that were so egregious of course that they had to take $787 billion for defamation. there is this idea of what he's admit being to but i'm really secure use jeraldo, i'm curious, i got g.o. by a lot of different

worlds and sectors. i've always wondered what was it like working for him? he could have told people to stop what they were doing and did not. but i never got a sense clearly, what his role was day to day. did you have conversations with him? was he kind of a puppeteer of sorts?s? did he have his pulse on able to direct the newsroom and the agenda? >> he surrounded himself with people. how much he was involved i can't tell you on a day-to-day basis but every time i saw him in action, whether it was watching the results of the 2004 presidential election, with him in a small room, whenever i saw him in an intimate setting there was no face between the -- space between the private and public

rurupert murdoch. to see lake como and some of those beautiful sets and scenery, i didn't know whether there was drama between the family, all i know he was a straightforward guy at least in dealing with me. he seemed to have his finger on the pulse. as i said, he was extremely skeptical of liberal politics of the mainstream media. he saw the tremendous opportunity that the fact that half the people felt frustrated and underserved or unserved by media. he saw that opportunity, drove a truck through it and he ended up having a fortune of over $17 billion and owning properties like the times in london and, you know, the wall street journal here in the states, all

these other wonderful, wonderful properties. you know, so he had something going that i think it does a disservice to think that it was all, you know, sleazy kind of opportunistic. because i -- opportunism. i believe he was sincerely motivated. he couldld have when fox news ws created, gone tabloid and celebrities and all that tmz kind of stuff. instead he went to serve a conservative audience. and while i disagree with almost everything in all of their positions, the majority of talent at fox news i appreciate the fact that half the people believe, for example, that abortion is a moral wrong. or that gun rights are absolute or that immigration is bad or that the climate is not changing, they're very skeptical

about that. so you know those are people who deserve to have their media. >> i want to say i misspoke when i said $787 billion, i mean $787 million with the defamation suit with dominion. i don't want to discount you not being a savvy business person, there is a recognized need and also a way to exploit or exalts on capitalize idea on that very idea. him stepping down and the why now at this age, what it really means logistically. is he going to be hands-off, is his role going to be sort of laissez faire, one credited to

getting donald trump elected perhaps single handedly. now we're a year away from another election, will he play a role going forward in fox news or is he going to be hands-off? >> let me paint a picture for you. this is a guy who would drive up on 48th street and walk with a single bodyguard, a guy who is his driver, walk get in the elevator, chat up whoever is there, go up to the at which time floor or whatever it was, and, you know, he'd work all day. he just had a jacket on, a tie on, he came to work and he seemed -- i mean this was not a person who put out the vibe of billionaire, mogul, titan, that wasn't the person that i had any experience with. the guy that i knew was, yes, he had the aura of power and

achievement, but he didn't flaunt it. and i don't know why now, exactly, except that demographically, you know, 92 you're already way -- he's overr 27 years past retirement age. you know, he maybe thinks that he's done it all. wants to slow down a little. you know, maybe wants to, you know, become an art, i don't know, i don't know, i haven't had a conversation with him in several years. i don't know his current thinking. but i do know that history will mark him as someone who broadened the philosophical ideologic product we call news. it is i understand, that i saw earlier reports on cnn of, you know, how bad, you know, the issue of climate and abortion. i just feel that there is half the people in the english-speaking world who feel,

under or unserved by mainstream media and he saw it as an opportunity. whether he was motivated by profit or by his own personal ideology or philosophy i can't tell you laura. >> it's interesting to see what happens going forward. jairltdo rivera -- jeraldo rivera, thank you. >> thank you laura. >> members of congress are going home for the week, almost as they didn't know there was a shutdown, september 30th at midnight in case you're listening. it shows you how far away they are from making a deal. the big question: what is now.s we're going to talk about it myy next. and it's gentle on her skin. tide free & gentle is epa safer choice certified. it's got to be tide.

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>> well, the clock is ticking everyone. and with the government shutdown getting that much closer, republicans are doing the real

thing, sending mngs home for the week, without-g members of congress home without a deal. mccarthy was clearly not happy about it. >> it's frustrating the sense that i don't understand why anybody votes against bringing the idea and having the debate. this is a whole new concept of individuals that just want to burn the whole place down. >> now the house is not set to meet again until next week with a functioning government and mccarthy's speakership of course holding in the balance. both of you know the power of hard work. clearly when you don't have the job don't you go home for the weekend and come back next week. that is what congress is doing right here. i have to wonder though what this is going to mean. they are going home. they have to explain to voters

in some respects what is happening and the why. i don't think voters are going to say hold on it's only republicans and it's only democrats doing xyz. it is far more nuanced. how do you help to elluminate the issue and make your case? >> well the opinion americans have on congress is an all time low and in the meantime, the age of congress is at an all i time high. with that said typically when there is a president from the other party, the majority in congress is able to oourch oouf. unify against congress. it looks like republicans in disarray. >> in a way it seems as though just to undermine him for some members of the republican party.

he is kind a marked man in some respects. we know it took 15 rounds to get him that republican leadership. whenever it's time to pay the piper that's now he seems to be under the thumb of those who don't want to see him do well. >> i don't know if it's necessarily they don't want to see him do well. >> it seems that. >> some of these folks wanting to increase their national profile. this idea they have constituents that are e-mailing them or calling them and saying you need to take a hard line stanls on stance on the nzaa or the cps i know what kind of mail those folks get and that is not one of those things. this is about increasing their national profile and trying to supposedly check kevin mccarthy on this. i agree when kevin said bring it on i think he reality means it.

but i also think at a certain point i look back on the institutionalists in congress, whatever was going on they didn't let politics get in the way. different people like allen molahan or david obey, who would say we are at least going to let this come to the floor. some democrats should step up and say, we got the senate covered. >> this is the challenge mccarthy is facing, he has to rely on democrats. except that people in his own party don't believe in a functioning government, right? they're not there to actually execute work on behalf of the citizens. it's not about disagreement on policy or tax policy it is about for example senator tuberville,

to impede generals and ambassadors from protecting our national security, right? it is all about pet projects, personal pet peeves and an underlining sense that they are taking advantage of a broken government. >> my view of this, i look at it and i'm bewildered by some of it right? i think that we should all want both sides to come together and do something together. why does every single vote have to be partisan one way or the other? and when they say bipartisan and there's two or three republicans or two or three democrats coming on that's not bipartisanship. i know the game and how they spin it. they say let's have a true debate on the floor on this bill. kevin mccarthy was a staffer on the hill, he worked for chairman of ways and means committee. he knows the processss of this. he is going town able to cobble this together. we are eight days from the end

of the month. i can't remember what today is. >> i don't do math unless i'm billing you so go ahead. >> there is going to be a cr, maybe it's a week late and maybe we have a short term government shutdown but i don't know if that affects the american people as much as they say it should but it's unnecessary. >> it creates that sense that people in washington are not connected to the people, and if he wanted to be speaker, running congress is what being speaker is about. a process king does not a leader make. >> oh, i like that. kind of yodaish. >> kind of -- >> he came to the job because he really wanted power. he is willing to go to 13 impairing votes to get it. -- embarrassing votes to get it. >> maxwell frost a democrat from

florida, congressman i'm glad you're here. we're talking about really chaos as a ladder in this studio. who's going to climb up i don't know, who's at the bottom, seems quite clear, it's the american people. but yoyou are one of the youngs members of congress, traditionally, i have watched members like you kind of get patted on the head, conned sended to, you don't know how this thing works, you got to stay around a lot longer to understand it. yet here we are with a shutdown on the horizon, and those in power who have been there for a long time have no idea what they're doing. >> yes, 110%. and you know, after we went through all those votes, where it says hakeem jefferson, 13, 1. and you know, after we went through all those votes, where

it says hakeem jefferson, 13, 14 times, got sworn in at 2:00 in the morning on a friday night, is a microcosm of what congress will be for the next two years, under spieker kevin mccarthy. he ceded his power to this far right wing, fascist wing of the republican party. they manufacture a bomb and sayy unless you do what we want we are going to detonate it. maybe they want to see whap, a little curious. a threat o of a default that jut happened and now we're back in the same place with the threat of a government shutdown which i think is almost certain to happen. >> okay so let's say you're the speaker of the house. how do you get the job done? >> that's a good question. well i think what the speaker should have done isn't sure that

he was in the better place at the beginning of this, right, at the beginning of the speakership because he gave up all this power, he made all these commitments to matt gates andd the freedom caucus. he's in a bind. that's the problem when you have people who have so much ambition and no power and forward thinking, the ambition overtakes rational thought. they'll say anything to get elected or be speaker and live day to day. the united states congress and united states of america has a speaker of the house who isn't interested in helping the american people as the first priority. the first priority for him is stake speaker of the house day by day and that's not how you govern. >> one of the reasons i understand you got into government was following the parkland shooting, you had been so motivated as so many people have been to stop the horrific

gun violence, and prevention which has been at the tom of your agenda. you introduced agenda to stop gun voings prevention, and the way the government ought to be prioritizing perhaps over the brinksmanship of things. but tomorrow president biden is going to be making a formal announcement. what do you think it hopes to accomplish? >> the first bill i introduced as a members of congress is the violence prevention of 2023. as many know i come from the gun violence movement, i wanted to make sure we could introduce it in the house for two reasons. obviously we want to pass the bill but i also understand had in a republican congress right now that can be difficult. so sometimes when you are in the minority you have to be creative. i thought let's put in this

bill, let's amp up the pressure with our allies and let's see if the administration can do it. we just heard tomorrow that the president will be making the announcement that he will be making a federal office of gun violence prevention. as folks know, we don't have an office that coordinates this at a daily level. when we're losing 100 lives a day from gun violence, we are ecstatic that this office is being created. it is a bullet and i think it is the failure of government and president biden and the administration are really stepping up and showing us that this is an issue they care about and it's also about a full generation, i'm the first gen z members of congress, we're really excited about the future of ending gun violence, a great step in a struggle that we have here. >> i'll be really curious about

what impact it is going to make, i think it will surprise a lot of people in a land that we call alphabet city, if there are still significant gaps including this area. congressman thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me on. >> well, more than a dozen famous authors are joining a collaboration lawsuit against the creator of chat gpt. they say the company is illegally using their work. one of their best selling authors michael connolly is my guest, next. good thing there's resolve. love the love. resolve the mess. attention hearing loss sufferers! do you struggle to hear loved ones? do you have trouble keeping up with conversations? do you listen to tv on max volume? hearing loss affects your life. you miss out on important moments... you feel alone.

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in a statement wednesday, quote, it is imperative that we stop this theft in its traction or we will destroy our incredible literary culture which needs many other creative industries in the u.s. to preserve our industry, joining us now is michael connolly, he is one of the best known authors in this suit. his next work is out november 7th. thank you for joining us today. you're one of several very prominent authors who are joining this lawsuit. tell me why was it so important for you specifically to be a part of this? >> i think it was because like these other authors you just

mentioned we were kind of blind sided by this. you know, we are all members of the authors guild and you know, they reached out to me and said did you know that their systems, their ai system has basically digested all your work. and, you know, and our legal team did some research often true prompting of like the chat and so forth. this system was offering to write sequels to books that i hadn't written yet. you know i hadn't written thesee sequels and this artificial intelligence was willing to do that for any taker. and that of course is pretty shocking. because i've worked more than three decades on my career as an author. i'm very careful about what i write, what i choose to write sequels about. and it's in a matter of minutes it can be taken away there me. so of course i raise my hand and said yeah, i want to be involved

in any kind of effort to try to control this. >> you know, i actually, fun fact, began my career as a copy right intellectual property litigator on these many issues and thinking what it means to these so many creative authors, who and when their works were every reproduced, it's no small feat, but some people might look at this michael and say hold on. these companies are not necessarily writing a sequel to actually publish and make money off of. they are using it to train their autismi on yours and others work. does that make a difference and should it to you and the public that it's a training mechanism? >> well, i think it's tell an expexexistential threat.

the creativity part was taken away from me, why would i do it? so i think this is a threat to what i call the spark of creativity. that something can be taken away from someone who really kind of produces -- can you call it art, you can call it craft, whatever you want to call it, entertainment. you know if they call it out of their own mind and their own creativity, and then it's kind of hijacked and taken away. >> i wonder if compensation were a response for these jaiive ai fur could be -- ja generative ak some idea of ownership and not having to be reactive to what's already being done more important? >> well, i think it depends on where you are in your -- i mean i think compensation is one of the big three c's that this

lawsuit is about. it's about control, it's about compensation and it's mostly about consent. you know you don't do this without consent. and so i'm sure they could create some kind of licensing agreement. and there will be many writers who want to do that. i particularly am not one of those writers. i just want to control my work, and put it out there, and have people either take it, like it or not. so -- but i think the writers involved in this lawsuit are standing up for themselves. obviously i'm standing up for myself. i'm no t that selfless but at the same time, we are standing up for all class of writers, whether their names are known, whether they've even written yet because this is a battle that goes into the future. >> it is a really important point. so many times people say it is better to ask for permission.

i also want to read part of a statement that open ai gave to cnn. i'll quote here. we respect the rights of writers and authors and believe they should benefit from ai technology. we are having productive comments including the writer's gild. michael connolly thank you so much. rupert murdoch's exit from fox, cara swisher is making a bold prediction. she joins us next. i usually jump on board. golo was doable, it's realistic, and it's something we can do the rest of our lives. hello 12 hours of relief. 12 hours!! not coughing? hashtag still not coughing?! mucinex dm gives you 12 hours of relief from chest congestion and any type of cough, day or night.

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>> we're back with more tonight on the big shake july in the media world. rupert murdoch stepping down at the age of 92 as the chairman of fox news corp, his son taking the helm for hock. on the cara swisher podcast, good to see you as always. >> good to see you laura. >> you're predicting on x that it will be a short rein. reign. did you have some insider info here? >> no, no, abc is for sale, many others, this is one of the more valuable ones, rupert murdoch's 92 years old, although his mother lived to 103. you have to be anticipating what

happens when the kids get control. he said he would have to go out of the job feet first. you have to know what's happening, where i mange it going eventually when the three other kids who have control of that family trust get control. they are going to want to sell is my assumption. >> what the dollar amount might be but then there might be the incalculable amount. elections as you well know, do you think it will change fundamentally, now that murdoch's stepping down? i put that in air quotes only because he has said he will somehow be involved still. >> i never turn my back on rupert murdoch and nobody should. he still controls the trust so let's keep that in mind. he hasn't given control to the kids, his children, his adult children and i think he will always be around. it is very hard for him especially going to a new cycle.

that said, a lot of people feel he was disengaged, especially around the issues around the dominion trial and things like that and several times when he was in the deposition, one of the most striking things when asked he could have done something about it, he said i could have but i didn't. so maybe a lot of people feel like lochland's in charge, he could be interested in having a nice retirement and he doesn't strike me as someone who is a nice retirement person, neither am i. i don't know, i don't feel that he doesn't feel he's not going to be part of it because he still maintains control. you don't want to make the comparison to succession, the kids are going to be at cross purposes. they have very different points of view. i think james is considered more liberal i guess. there's two other sisters. so they all have to agree just

two of them together could cause problems for the other two and three of them against one. you just don't know how that's going to go. >> sounds like it's a tremendous amount of influence, of course i'm sarcastic thinking about all the different iterations of it. >> there are other people making other there are all types of right wring media companies, lot of investors. this thing will be looked at by a lot of people if it ever goes for sail, and it will, everything goes for sale, ultimately. he put tucker carlson on twitter, not clear how that's doing as a business. but could you see them trying to combine a streaming and a network. you know linear networks have to transform more digitally and digital networks have to have more of the qualities of a

linear network. other people do too. >> either the world is an oyster or we'll have to wait and see, cara fisher, thanks for joining. >> no problem. >> next, anderson cooper's champion for change.

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aftermath of shootings. >> sandy and lonnie phillips have been on a decade of recovery. >> when i heard picked up the phone i heard the screaming going on in the chaos. he says there's been a shooting. oh please god lon tell me she's not dead and the line went silent. i let out a scream. >> and at that moment i knew that my wife would never be the same and i would no longer have a daughter. >> sandi and lonnie asked their son jordan to fly to colorado to bring their daughter home. i met him the day after the shooting. >> we want the meet with family and friends and anybody she has touched. >> just five months later, another shooting shocked the

nation, newtown. sandy and lonnie, supported other greerving parents. >> we saw the parents walking into the community center and they were like zombies and i told my husband, we can help them. we can do what wasn't done or the us. >> how are you guys doing? >> so what they've done is create a nonprofit called survivors in power. >> it's lonnie just checking in on you. >> the goal from mental health resources to help survivors. you're not counselors and yet you have upended your lives and reexg out in a very individual way to people. >> yes, that's compassion. >> their efforts have taken them across the country to some of the worse mass shootings in thee country. they have created the survivors

tool kit. along with gabby gifford. >> so they have got it on hand when not if, when this happens in their community. >> tragedy struck the community of uvalde, ten years into the phillips journey. even for them it was too much to bear. >> i first response was to sandy hook and for me, emotionally, uvalde was our last. uvalde took everything out of me. i don't know that i'll ever be able to physically respond to another mass shooting. because of uvalde. >> that was like book ends for us. >> they now focus on building up the next generation of survivors. >> got shot five times, we were shoulder to shoulder and not one bullet touched me. i still don't understand it.

>> dion green's father was killed in a mass shooting in dayton, ohio. >> sandy gave me her heart her ear and her shoulder to lean on. >> now he the country offering support. >> i followed her leave and chose to help others as well. >> we really try to make our legacy which is really jesse's legacy, all about the future. because we have found joy again. and i want other survivors to find that joy again. >> here with me now anderson cooper. anderson good to see you. the phillips have been really on quite a journey. they have been traveling to mass shootings all around the country for a decade now. they feel now they can't respond in person. i wonder what does the organization look like for them in the future? >> they say they want to pass

the torch to the next generation. you heard from one of the surviving piece, dion green. their idea is to basically have someone like him in every region of america so when not if when another mass shooting happens they can coordinate getting someone on the ground as quickly as possible to help survivors. to help family members. and they would also like to see and they're working on kind of a coordinated government response to mass shootings to have government, a lot like fema comes in to respond to a natural disaster, they would like to see a trained team of therapies, counselors on the scene to help. >> the fact that we need to have something like that tells you the weight and the extent of the problem. i also understand they are very active in trying to get gun control laws actually passed. >> they have. they say they would like to be in favor of gun control, they

have basically been disappointed their lack of what they see is progress on that front since the death of their daughter. a lot of people like them thought that sandy hook would be a turning point in america. earlier this year they helpedd pass jesse's law passed in colorado, it allows victims to sue gun and ammo manufacturers. >> be sure to tune in on saturday 8 p.m. eastern for the champions for change one hour special. thank you f for watching. our coverage continues.

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