this is "gps, the global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you from new york city. ♪ ♪ today on the program, world leaders made their annual journey to new york city this week for the u.n. general assembly. among them, iran's president ibrahim raissi. after his fiery speech, he sat down with me for an exclusive interview. i asked him about his country's nuclear program, its place in

the middle east deeply changed by the abraham accords and about women's rights in iran after the death of mahsa amini and the protests that followed. >> are all these hundreds of millions, maybe over a billion muslims wrong and only the islamic republic of iran is right? >> then, open trade has been one of the great engines of progress in the world lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. is it now moving in reverse? and is america to blame? i'll talk to the head of the world trade organization and iweli who says the world needs a new vision for globalization. >> but first, here's my take. the biden administration has pursued a new and ambitious economic agenda premised on the notion that the prevailing

orthodoxy of the last few decades specifically, the imperative to embrace free markets and free trade was inadequate to the needs of the american economy. that approach gave priority to efficiency at the cost of inequality, a hollowing out of manufacturing and an overreliance on countries like china. by contrast biden has put together the largest public investment in the american economy in many decades and most of it designed to encourage a revival in manufacturing specifically targeting the chipmaking industry and to transition the energy sector to renewables. emission data from the u.s. treasury department suggests these approxpolicies have succe spending on the construction of manufacturing facilities have doubled since 2021 mostly for computers, electronics and electrical goods. non-residential construction spending in general is up 15%

since the passage of biden's big infrastructure bill and private sector spending is up by almost three times as much as public sector. in other words, the government's policies and expenditures have been a catalyst for the private sector. other advanced economies are not showing such large increases in manufacturing construction. they're happening mostly in america. these are impressive results, but the real test of these massive federal expenditures will become clear in the long run. in the short term government spending and tax incentives create a boom and the private sector will naturally jump and eager not to miss out on the action, but does this create a sustainable set of companies and industries over time when government money runs out as it inevitably will? this is where the uaw autow autoworkers strike becomes an important test case in

bidenomics. on the one hand, autoworkers clearly have cases and companies do well and management, of course, have given itself hefty bonuses, but a key component of biden's economic plan is to make the u.s. a leader in the electric vehicle industry which it sees as the future of automobiles. to help make that happen, the federal government is showering the industry with benefits from a huge up to $7.5,000 tax credit when you buy an ev to a slew of batteries, minerals and charging stations. all these supports make it possible for automakers to take on higher costs. already the big three spend far more on labor than tesla. factories in the u.s. pay their workers on average over five times more than factories in mexico and 25% more even than those in japan, but the real challenge will come from china which is taking the ev market by storm. nearly two-thirds of the world's

evs are now made in china. byd, the biggest of the chinese companies top tesla to become the world's number one producer of evs. american carmakers are shielded from chinese competition. donald trump imposed a 27.5% tariff that american consumers must pay if they want to buy cars from china building on protectionist policies which have meant higher costs and fewer jobs in america, but in the long run, tariffs only keep american car companies in their high-cost bubble shielding from the global market. chinese cars will soon dominate in large parts of the world even in europe where tariffs are only 10% so far. as "the wall street journal's" greg abest points out is productivity has been stagnant with output growing only an average of 0.2% a year since 2009 well below taiwan's average

4% growth and also below the uk, germany, south korea, france and italy. productivity in the auto sector has crashed, down 32% from 2012 through last year though it notes this probably includes pandemic-related disruptions. biden's economic team has hit many home runs. the massive increase in infrastructure spending was long overdue. funding for research is now increasing in some areas that remains too low by critical standards. it makes good sense, but the broader broader effort to revive manufacturing will be a challenge. countries like japan, germany and france have all made such efforts and yet over the last several decades, manufacturing is a percentage of gdp has declined at a steady rate in all of them. in the united states it is down to 11% of gdp and about 8% of

employment. two kscholars have studied 50 years of american industrial policy and concluded that the most successful efforts by far were those that funded basic research and development and opened foreign markets to american goods. many of the efforts to promote particular industries or implement trade barriers proved costly failures as the biden administration implements its plans it would do well to look at its history and make sure it is not condemned to repeat it. go to cnn.com/fareed for a long to my washingtonp post column this week and let's get started. ♪ ♪ >> last saturday, scattered protests broke out around iran to commemorate the first anniversary of the death of mahsa amini, a 22-year-old woman

who died in police custody. she had been detained for allegedly not wearing her head scarf properly. the protests in the immediate aftermath of amini's death rocked iran. they were brutally suppressed and eventually died out. iran has started foot patrols to enforce the country's strict dress code for women. most importantly, perhaps, the head scarf requirement. when i sat down with iran's president ibrahim raissi on tuesday i wanted to understand why his government remained so adamant about the need for women to cover their heads. >> it was a year ago that there were those demonstrations across iran that caused a great deal of internal strive. the iranian government likes to say it was a small protest and if you're pardoning 22,000 and you're still imprisoning many, many more it suggests these were

large. what i want to ask you is at the heart of it is this issue of the hijab, about whether women should be -- should have their heads covered, and i grew up as a muslim in india. i've traveled all over the muslim world. hundreds of millions of muslims do not believe that this is something women should be told to do. there are dozen of islamist countries where the governments are have bias and believe in islam and they don't believe this. they believe women should have the choice and the right to wear whatever they want and not have a patriarchal system tell them what to do. are all these hundreds of millions, maybe a billion muslims wrong and only the islamic republic of iran is right? >> translator: what occurred during the days that you spoke of earlier, that was the presence of a few, not the

presence of the people. the people of iran did not support it any way, those that rioted in the streets of iran. the people's lack of support defeated their plans. there were some who were fooled. there were others who committed murder, conducted serious crimes. but what occurred last year was a war conducted in the media by then the enemy, i don't want to say networks. networks who were headquartered in the three european countries and the united states of america who broadcast news 24 hours a day, they opened the teach tactics of terror. so they conduct instructional

steps on how to build a cocktail molotov. this is one of the facets of animosity of the united states of america toward the islamic republic of iran as well as several european countries towards iran. it's not hijab that matters for them. it's not the rights if are women that matter, it's not women's rights and it's not nuclear issues or human rights because there are countries such as the zionist regime, and is the zionist regime armed to the teeth with nuclear warheads or no? why doesn't a single voice come out of the united states in protest to that? why doesn't any voice come out in protest to that? >> the hijab matters to the iranian women. i've been to iran and it does matter to them. they believe it is an infringement on their rights. >> translator: the fundamental

issue is that the fundamental republic is a law, and when an issue becomes part of the law that everyone must adhere to the law. so it's the same the world over, and now that with regard to adherence to the laws, in reality the americas and certain european countries are always seeking to cause a bipolar situation in our society. so they conduct their work in this fashion always. they thought iran is one of those societies in which they can create two different opposing issues in which women and gender issues become set against hijab, but rest assured that through the use of these tools they will not succeed. the people of iran are enlightened and deeply spiritual and they understand that the united states of america and european countries don't care

about their raights, their hija, but the respect for women has existed for hundredses and hun hundreds of years in e ran and it's not a development we have observed in the past few decades. >> after our interview iran's parliament approved a bill for a three-year trial period that gets even stricter on enforcing its dress code including prison terms it of up to ten years for violations. a panel of experts appointed by the u.n. describe the bill as gender apartheid. the bill still needs to be ratified by iran's guardian counsel. next on "gps," the world's worries about iran's nuclear program increaseda, gen this month. i asked president raisi about it i asked president raisi about it when we come back.on. to help get you ready, your aspen dental denture team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care with an epic anniversary savings event.

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progress. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley said earlier this year that tehran could have material for a bomb in less than two weeks and a nuclear weapon just a few months later. last weekend the iaea said iran has decided to bar several of its inspectors. tehran has now removed the technical term, one-third of the agency's most experienced inspectors who were working in iran. the iaea director condemned the act and said it severely affects the agency's ability to do their work. they asked iran to reconsider. here is more of my interview with president raisi. >> let me ask you about the issues that the iaea has raised about iran recently. would it be possible to get the iaea inspectors to the point where they have enough people there who can actually inspect

or is your intention to make it possible for the iaea to function in iran? >> translator: bellwell, you sef our intention was for the iaea not to conduct inspections we would have said so clearly. from the very beginning we were to collaborate with the iaea, and they are fully aware in the iaea that we have cooperated fully and this cooperation takes place in two ways. in various ways. one, via installation of cameras that record in real time the activities that take place. secondly are the inspectors who come there and oversee the nuclear activities in iran, and in the time that has elapsed

thus far since the agreement, 15 different times the iaea has said and certified that there are no digressions into any type of iran's nuclear activity and that it remains purely for civilian and peaceful purposes and we have announced time and time again that the use of nuclear weapons, the use of weapons of mass destruction in general why? because we don't believe in it, however, what we believe in in particular is the fatwa issued by his eminence the supreme leader, because these are weapons of mass destruction and they can lead to the death of many innocent lives throughout the world, then it is haram, not religiously allowed to develop or use these weapons. iran has said we do not wish to have these inspectors here. we have said what these three countries what has been said by

the iaea is that we have certain considerations vis-a-vis individuals from these three countries. their trust is under a shadow of doubt. >> you have designated all american inspectors, of course, and now you are d designating firing the french, german and the british ones and the iaea says this will cripple its ability to do the inspections and it does say there are many unanswered questions and i want to raise them because those are the very questions that these three countries ask that you referred to and the question is essentially around two sites which were never declared by iran as nuclear sites and yet the iaea believes that there are traces of uranium there. why would you not answer that question? were those sites part of a

uranium enrichment facility and if so, why were they never declared? >> translator: all of the questions have been answered, whether there were questions given in any specific timeframe or those that are generally posed each time when we responded to these questions we did so officially in official meetings with iaea officials and they were clarified. any unanswered questions or ambiguities were clarified so the misunderstanding or lack of good will that exists, they're not founded in reality. they're simply allegations. >> i have to say the iaea does say that these are important questions that have not been answered relating to these two sides so they regard these as serious, unanswered questions,

but let me ask you one that's very simple. iran is the only country that has only a civilian program, as you claim it is, that enriches to the level you enrich, to 60% and higher. why are you enriching to these high numbers? doesn't that raise people's suspicions? >> you see, this action of the islamic republic of iran against the breaking of commitments and the three european countries vis-a-vis in the beginning who are not seeking 60% levels of enrichment. they trampled upon their commitments according to iae assertifications. what the islamic republic of iran did was in response to the breaking of commitment of the signatories to the agreement, and it was officially announced that the action that we intend

to take is not intended to reach nuclear weapons of any type or a military dimension of any type, but it is a response for the lack of commitment demonstrated by the europeans and should they at any time in return to a fulfillment of their co commitments, rest assured that the islamic republic as it has done in the back would adhere to its commitments. >> next on gps i asked president raisi about warming relations between some of iran's arab neighbors and israel. how does he feel about this trend? including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger.

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the great regional issue going on in the middle east right now is, of course, what has been started with the abraham accords, the normalization of relations between some gulf states and

israel. an arab diplomat, a friend of mine said the iranians have managed to achieve the impossible which is they have brought israel and the arabs together against them. isn't the abraham accords fundamentally a failure of iran's foreign policy? because here you have israel and countries that would not even recognize it, would not even talk to it coming together largely because they worry about iran's influence in the region which they see as malevolent? >> translator: this was a job done by the americans to take the hands of the israelis and put that squarely in the hands of certain arab countries. this doesn't equal the acceptance of those nations and of those people. people in those countries, in those persian gulf, arab countries have a great deal of hate for the israeli actions, and this was only obtained under

american pressure, and the frame of thought of the americans was that they were somehow creating security for the zionist regime whereas normalization of certain countries with israel does not buy security or bring about security for the zionist regime because both the zionist regime is facing internal strive and difficulties and it is hated outside whether by countries that are of muslim fashion or otherwise across the world. today, know that the zionist regime is the most hated for crimes against humanity, against human beings and the trampling upon of many agreements that it should have adhered to thus far. it is hated for that, so this is the action undertaken by the americans. on one side, the americans did this. on the other side they started

to promote a phobia about iran, an unfounded fear in the hearts of the neighboring countries around iran so that when they wish to establish contact with iran or have an approach or re-approach or conduct economic activities with iran they see that these are fears created by the americans. so this normalization will see no success, just like in previous cases and this is not a solution for the zionist regime after seven and a half decades. they must go back to the principle founded and given the right to the palestinian people that they are owed what is rightfully theirs. the path must start from that point of origin instead of addressing the core issue, they are trying to bring about a forced normalization which cannot help the zionist regime in any way, shape or form other

than to put everyone in a position where even the people of these nations that you touched upon earlier, they see that the establishment of normalization of relationship as a betrayal of their principles and values. so after 75 years, these different avenues pursued by the united states of america have never responded and have never yielded the desired fruit. >> you say that israel is after 75 years has not solved those problems and is in trouble, but when i look at israel, it seems to have become one of the richest countries in the region. it is now almost an industrial country by per capita gdp, and it has built an extraordinary technology sector and despite the problem, they have been able to normalize relations to any countries and increasingly, it seems possible that they would normalize relations with saudi arabia, and your gdp growth has

been very poor over the last 30 years, a country that used to be one of the richest countries in the region now looks backward in comparison. iran seems more isolated. is it worth the price you have paid to have taken all these positions that you have taken? it feels like for the iranian people they have paid a heavy price in terms of lack of development. >> with the islamic revolution, we gave a loud and clear announcement that we will not go under the hegemony of the west or that of america and we wish to be an independent country and we wish to have relations with all countries and they sought only germany and what conditions are in the region. let's look at it. in the situation brought about by the americans is syria, was syria successful or america? certainly syria. in afghanistan. were the people of afghanistan

successful or the united states of america? certainly the people of afghanistan. iraq, were the iraqis successful or the united states of america? certainly the iraqis? where in the region has america been successful? you cannot see an example of her success anywhere in the region. the difference in the comparison between iran, western countries and the americans, iran has been the one who has succeeded. now america, it's important to keep in mind that they wanted for iran to become isolated. that did not occur. is the entire world comprised of three european countries and the united states of america? the world has almost 200 different independent countries. they have relations with a great many of them, most of them. is today's world scenario showing you that american power is precipitating or that of iran? we believe that it's certainly that of the united states of america and iran's position is being strengthened by the day. >> mr. president, our time is up

and i thank you for allowing the world to hear your views on a range of issues. >> translator: i also thank you. next on "gps" there is growing global rhetoric against free trade as countries like the united states have turned inward somewhat. i will talk to the head of the world trade organization ngozi okonjo iweala about why this is so troubling. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all-inclusive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com. (vo) the new iphone 15 pro with titanium is here. get it on us, with verizon's best business unlimited plans. get the new iphone 15 pro, on us.

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world trade organization. she calls for reimagining globalization with a world economy that is more open and more fair. pleasure to have you on. >> thank you, fareed. >> so you've been -- you've held so many fascinating jobs. you were finance minister of nigeria and in that whole period for decades and decades when you were developmental economist, what would washington tell you when they were trying to tell you in the third world and the developing world to change your policies? >> well, we all agreed and we would hear even when i was at the world bank, as well, we preached the same that open markets, open, stable, fair and transparent markets and a multilateral trade system that was predictable was the best thing for the world. that interdependence would be the way to go, not over dependence, but interdependence

would bring peace and prosperity to the world and that developing countries should maintain these open markets. >> so while the united states has been preaching this for the last 50 -- 75 years in the last few years it's the u.s. under trump that put tariffs on not just the chinese and the europeans and the canadians and biden has put by america provisions in all his bills that the u.s. has in some ways turned its back to its own creation? >> well, i would not say completely, but i want to stress that the more we put across measures that do not allow others, especially developing countries to compete, the more we give the signal that the multilateral trading system is not an avenue that they can use to improve the living standards of their population to fight

poverty and even to support sustainable development all of which are the purposes for the world trade organization. we want to make sure that developing countries see they have a fair chance to compete within this system. >> you make a very interesting point in your foreign affairs piece that everybody thinks about the vulnerabilities of, you know, your supplies, you're in the pandemic, but moving to a system that is just based on a few, friendly suppliers is actually in some ways, leaves you more vulnerable. >> i would like to stress that, fareed. i think that given what we are seeing with climate change and the unpredictability of what is happening, concentrating production either at home or with a few friends may not build the resilience you want. let us concentrate those and diversify supply chain to countries, those who are not a part of globalization in the

first round, but who are ready to receive investment and many of these are developing countries, vietnam is good, indonesia and there's also bangladesh. >> what you're saying is what would give you security is there a supply chain with many different manufacturers, if there is a typhoon in one place you can go somewhere else. >> absolutely. critical sectors need to look at this. we now can look and say where else in the world can we develop the supply chain? in africa, for instance, there is a golden opportunity to really diversify and develop the supply chain as minerals and process them in place and create jobs for young people at the same time as you help manage the decarbonization of the world. it's like a win-win. >> now, a lot of people will say free trade is all very well and good, but the chinese, for example, manipulate the system. they have a massive state. it subsidizes and they're hidden

subsidies and explicit subsidies, it doesn't open its market to lots of western goods and western tech companies can barely operate in china. how can they be a part of their system and it's still open and fair? >> countries that complain that the china has hidden industrial subsidies and we certainly need to be mindful of that because we want a level playing field. china complains about agricultural subsidies in other countries. so there are complaints on all sides, and i think what we need to do is remind ourselves on how this system was built. it is true that if we don't have a transparent system where there is a trust, then you have a race to the bottom because everyone will try to subsidize and you know developing countries will lose the most because they don't have the fiscal space to be able to join the subsidy race. so when we want is there are subsidies that are good.

you subsidize research and innovation, why not? that can help the world, but i think specific subsidies and specific requirements that make it problematic for other members to compete and issue and that's what you want to get away with. >> but it is fair to say that what happens in washington matters the most, and if the u.s. turns toward protectionism and in industrial policy, i think everyone else will just follow suit, route? they'll copycat. >> that will happen once foreign nations subsidize whether it's eu, china or others want to do that, but that's why we are saying that the subsidy race to the bottom is not the right way to go. i do want to say that, you know, what we've been hearing from the u.s. and the wto is increasingly very supportive and we hope we can push in that direction. i think there's a realization that this system we have, if we

allow it to fragment and if we allow it to protectionists and we might lose it and that is not what we want to do. we want to maintain a system that has served the world so well for so long. >> ngozi, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. next on "gps," something completely different. we will tell you about a blockbuster movie in china. its version of top gun, but it's all america's bullying ways. ♪ ♪ and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours.

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xi jinping chose to skip both the g20 this month and the un general assembly this week. president biden had hoped to see xi at the earlier gathering in india as tensions between the u.s. and china remain high. the u.s. insists it isn't trying

to keep china down, but china doesn't seem convinced, and a film released this year to much fanfare sends a message to chinese movie-goers that the country needs to stand up to american bullying. it is about the chinese air force and it is called "born to fly." i recently spoke about it to david rennie, beijing bureau chief for "the economist." >> david rennie, pleasure to have you on. >> glad to be here. >> so tell us the plot, briefly. >> so this is kind of a cross of "top gun" and "the right stuff." it is about test pilots. but what was striking and to me quite worrying about this film is it is set in the present day and closely mapping real world events in the south china sea where you see american war where you see american war ships and war planes flying in innocent passage in international skies and

international waters so just show the flag and that is legally allowed. but in the film that is twisted and it begins and ends with -- we don't get told the americans, but the pilots fly modern planes and they have american accents. and they're going right into chinese airspace and flying solo over a chinese gas rig that they smash all of the windows and sailors are falling into the sea and when they say you're in chinese air space, these arrogant american-accented pilots say -- >> we can come and go wherever we want. >> and so the middle of the film is this very austere test pilot in the chinese desert where they trying to design a must plane that could drive the arrogant foreign intruders out and it ends with the americans being driven out of chinese airspace by these super modern chinese jets. >> so me one of the most interesting moments that you

have talked about is the parents of the kid, of the young wanna be pilot, tried to dissuade him and put him on a more convention path, and that is seen as the old modernizing, reform-minded china. and that is actually -- the kid delivers a stern rebuke to his parents, right? that is a metaphor for the old china of tao. >> absolutely. i've heard american generals say, maybe the chinese won't start a war because all of the one-child families, lots of urban middle class parents will risk their own child in a war. and the movie kind of tackles that head on. and your right, there is a crash and nearly dies and his parents turn up in the desert, he refused our offer to send you abroad to study and he's like, no, i'm going to -- my generation will give china its

confidence back and i'm going to stay here and but a unfamiliar son, and he kind of sends them backing. there's a phrase in chinese language, the main melody films and the main melody is the main political message that the party is what everyone is humming along to and you could see xi jinping in speech after speech particularly aimed at the young is they're soft, their pampered, they need to be willing to sacrifice and suffer like their sort of ancestors did at the beginning of communist china and that is added on for the push for technological self-reliance and push back the foreign americans trying to hold china down. so all of the themes come together. >> and how does it end? is it a -- it is a glorious victory against the, as you say, the american accented unspeaking named narratives. >> you hear these panics saying their planes are really good and

they're sent packing. a crumb of comfort, they shoot down an american drone, not an american fighter. so we don't see an american killed on screen. but it is definitely a chilly movie and i've spoken to chinese who are shocked by the kind of the next level of normalized combat, like a historical movie where you're killing americans in korea in the 1950s. this is new, this is present day normalizing combat with america and if we see another of these films, then i think we should start to worry. >> david rennie, pleasure to you have on. always love your reporting and thank you for this. >> thank you. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week.

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