never seen before? >> absolutely. military families are being used as pawns. military kids are watching. and there are kids all around this country who are dreaming of being in our military. they want to serve. they are patriotic. and they have this desire to serve. they are sitting at home and watching the news and they are seeing that they may not get paid, the kids may not be cared for. and we are talking about a crisis in recruiting. and retention. this is not the way to solve that problem either. >> thank you so much for coming in, and explaining the real consequences of what very much seems like it would happen on certain. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. >> tonight, as i mentioned, it was standing ovation for general mark milley as he exited the pentagon for the final time as a chairman of the joint chiefs. at midnight on saturday general c.q. brown will officially replace him as the nation's top military officer. that was his salute as he left the pentagon for the last time tonight. thank you so much for joining

us. "cnn primetime" with abby phillip starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> in just 48 hours, poisonous politics and schoolyard rhetoric will have real life consequences. the united states government once again shut down. and it comes an extraordinary day, when a president openly accused his predecessor of trying to kill the republic. and in the hearing to impeach said president, it backfired on republicans. good evening, everyone, i am abby phillip. and in the way right now on capitol hill, the house is voting on a series of bills, none of which are expected to actually avert a government shutdown. now, remember, those hard-liners, they want to have tickets to spending, including two programs that affect schools. let's go straight to melanie zanona over on capitol hill.

>> a., abby. so, tonight, these bills they are going to vote on in the house are not expected to pass the senate. they're expected to be dead on arrival. but they may not even have the votes to be able to pass them among house republicans. so, what is the plan going forward? kevin mccarthy has a few options here. tomorrow he can proceed with his initial plan which was to try to vote on a stopgap spending bill, this was another spending bill they were hoping that hard-line republicans would rally round tomorrow after they pass these bills tonight. but it is not clear that they are going to have the votes for that either. they can't even pass these party line spending bill votes tonight. i don't think they're gonna have the votes to. a number of hard-line conservatives are really digging in with their opposition. and so then there is another option that mccarthy has and that is to work with democrats to cut a deal with democrats or the senate. but the problem there, abby, is that that could force a vote to remove him as speaker. he's facing threats from his

hard-liners, including members like matt gaetz. and so he still does not want to go that route, until at least he has exhausted all his other options. and of course the final potential path here is for kevin mccarthy to simply just do nothing. if the senate sends over a bill he could just simply ignore it. but that would cause a government shutdown. but regardless it seems like that is the direction that we are headed, abby. >> it very much seems that is the case tonight. thank you very much, melanie zanona. >> joining me now is congressman dusty johnson of south dakota. thank you for being here on a busy night. >> you bet, thanks for having me. >> we are just about 48 hours now away from a government shutdown. the money is going to run out. do you think tonight's votes will get your republican conference any closer to avoiding a government shutdown? >> i do you think these votes are an important part of the process. and let me be clear, government shutdowns are stupid and they are not the kind of thing we should do. nobody wins in a government shutdown, it doesn't save any money. it costs a lot of money.

but i think we are in a position here where republicans are getting their act together, and we are going to be passing appropriations bills tonight that, combined with what we have already passed, the country's 73% of the discretionary spending for our country and that is not 100% but we are moving in the right direction and we get close to the deadline. >> speaker mccarthy's said he is a backup plan if a stopgap funding bill he puts on the floor tomorrow fails. what is the plan? >> i'm the author of a plan. i'm the chairman of republican main street caucus, which are pragmatic conservatives and house. three of us joined with three leaders of the freedom caucus to put forth a plan. a stopgap funding measure of 30 days. but in return for the 30 days we secured the border. that is critically important. when they were on the right around the left you acknowledge that the border policies we are seeing at the southern border right now are not working. >> to be clear, are you saying that that is the direction that

speaker mccarthy would go next if his plan a fails. >> when i talk to speaker mccarthy he said he likes our plan. he thinks the plan could perhaps be improved by adding a debt commission. and i agree. when we're talking about discretionary spending we are dealing with a fraction of the budget. we really should also be looking at longer term pilot programs and figuring out how responsible the men and women do our job and get on the right fiscal path there as well. >> the speaker today, he refused to say whether he would try to cut a deal with democrats if all this fails among republicans. do you think he should reach across the aisle to avoid a shutdown? >> we have the democrats in control of the senate and the republicans are in control of the house. that means, literally, there is no other way to fund government. in the final analysis, then, a deal that gets votes from both sides. i don't have to like that fact. but that is the cold, hard facts of the situation. but i think the speaker is taking the right approach phase one is let's make sure we get the republicans on the right,

all in the same page. let's make sure frankly -- we should pass my bill that cut spending, keep the government open and secure the border. once we get republicans on the same page on the, then we can figure out where the democrats are. >> but as you point out, any deal has to be bipartisan in order to -- the entire congress, a democrat-controlled senate, a lot of your colleagues on the, right the far-right, they want to do all. they want all their demands. so, at the end of the day, do you think that, if they don't get too tall, that this will end with a motion to vacate and to kick speaker mccarthy out of his job and that that is really the endgame here for some of your colleagues? >> i want it all as well. but i've been married 23 years to a delightful woman. i never get everything i want. i've been on nonprofit boards and i've been a business executive. and i have never, in any deal, gotten everything i want. i do think my republican colleagues almost, without exception, understand that the

final deal is going to look at a little different than the republican deal. some of them will be able to support that in the end analysis. others won't. but i will tell you, responsible members like me are going to be ecstatic to support any deal that cuts spending, keep the government open and secure is the border. and i think we are getting closer. >> in the meantime. okay, let's see him sage. in the meantime, what's the point of all this? can you explain this to people who are at home who are trying to understand, what is the point of taking it to the brink of a government shutdown if at the end of the day everyone understands it's going to be a bipartisan bill in which republicans don't get everything they want? >> you do what you need to have the process work. i will admit, the house and senate should have done their homework earlier. but, it is kind of the human condition. it's human nature to wait until the last few days until the end of the college semester, to get that final report. >> this is congress, this is not college. >> i would tell you the

appropriation committee, the republican appropriation committee finish their work on ten of the 12 bills months ago. admittedly, we've had a hard time getting to 218 votes in the house. when we cut spending too much, we gain if you vote on the rights, but we lose a few votes on the center. but we increased funding the reverse happens. it's been really hard to calibrate this package that it gets the votes needed for passage. >> so, earlier today, congressman gaetz and speaker mccarthy apparently got into a testy exchange in a closed-door house meeting today. can you tell us about what happened there? >> well, i don't talk about what happens within the republican conference meetings. those are supposed to be off the record. but, i feel comfortable telling you it got a little bit spicy. i think that is okay. i do not think we are all. >> is it okay? from what we've heard in the reporting, it was back and forth about whether speaker mccarthy was responsible for people attacking matt gates on social media.

we are talking about a government shutdown in 48 hours, is that's really what these meetings should be spending time on? >> you are exactly right. the meeting should not be focused on a personality dispute between matt gaetz and speaker mccarthy. but the meeting really was not. i was there for perhaps 50 minutes of that meeting. and approximately 90 seconds was focused on the topic you described. i get it that is the spicy part. that's what drives the headlines. but the rest of the meeting was really focused on the boring blocking and tackling, meat and potatoes of government governance. it might not lead cabling but that's what we were talking about. >> you know what, congressman, you are calm optimism is maybe what we need tonight. we will see how your votes go today and tomorrow. we appreciate you joining us. >> if everybody would just listen to me, things would go a lot faster around here. >> all right, thanks, congressman.

>> thanks so much for having me. >> coming up next, in a major speech, president biden warns that america's democracy is at risk and maga is to blame. plus, one challenger from the left, cornell west, will join me live. why he is upset with his picket line appearance this week. plus, the first impeachment hearing for republicans did not go exactly as they plant. >> they want to act like they are blind. they don't know what this is. these are our national secrets. it looks like in the bleep to me.

>> think about this. in the last decade alone americans have seen two impeachments and they're flirting with a third. they've seen an insurrection at the steps of the united states capitol and they've seen four indictments of a former president. they see multiple government shutdowns and now they are facing another. and now the very man who ran on restoring the soul of the republic is openly accusing his predecessor concurrent opponent of trying to kill it. the nation may be at an inflection point tonight. america is facing the growing likelihood that the next year's election feature a rematch between joe biden and donald trump. and one thing that all sides seem to agree on is that, for different reasons, democracy is in trouble. tonight, president of the united states is laying out his reasons why. >> there's an extremist

movement that does not share that basic beliefs in our democracy. the maga movement. there's no question that today's republican party is intimidated and driven by marc extremists. trump says the constitution gave him quote, the right what he wants to do is president. and of course. i have never even heard the president say that in just. >> but the question is, which candidate will americans leave the sidelines for? and for reasons? will it be the 81-year-old incumbent? or the 77 year old defendant? joining me now to discuss this is amanda carpenter, former communications director for senator ted cruz. she is the writer and editor project moxie, a nonprofit dedicated to fighting authoritarianism and strike to democratic institutions. also with, us former senior adviser to hillary clinton. amanda. this is not the first time president biden has said this and made this kind of statement about where our democracy is.

but, he is doing it right now at this particular moment. is it a sign that he feels like this is heading in one direction only with trump as the republican nominee? >> i think we should take note of this is not the first speech he has taken on by protecting democracy. it is one in a series. i thought what made this one especially important where the people in the place that surrounded it. he gave the speech not just to give this abstract remarks about these ideals that we all share. he was given a tribute to john mccain to establish a library in his honor. i was really special was that cindy mccain spoke at the beginning of, up talking about how thankful she was for his friendship and talking about how she was happy to work together with president biden to nurture the flame of democracy. that's what we need to see a lot more of. and especially in a place like arizona. that's not special just because

of john mccain. that was a hotbed for conspiracy theories, and a lot of dangerous actors in the aftermath of the 2020 election. and there are a lot of republicans there that suffer the brunt of that. local election workers that lived in fear. >> arizona is still a hotbed of extremism in many ways. so, that's definitely not in the past at all, even though all these years later after senator mccain's passing. philippe, the president talked about the maga threat today. he's trying to make this distinction between republicans and what he calls monica republicans. but the question always is, it is that distinction really exist in anyone's minds but in the minds of the people crafting this message in the white house? >> that's actually better question for amanda. because amanda's republican but she's not a maga republican. >> -- >> messaging, this is about generally being scared. he has said today and he has set a previously and hopefully he will say it over and over

again that this is a central part of his presidency is to fight this back. whether i use the term market extremist, i don't know. but yes, he wants to make the point that the bulk of the republican party you can disagree with, but they are thoughtful and they are patriots and they are not out to undermine democracy for the sake of their got, donald trump. and you have to be able to find a way to bifurcate that group on the people who are running up the steps of the people -- sticks and breaking in and making havoc, the people who cheer them on and people who think that they were tourists taking a nice little walk that day. >> -- >> i think this is a really interesting conversation because as a republican, worked for ted cruz, and someone that has opposed trump from a conservative -- for the entire duration. i get a lot of blow back from other republicans saying how can you think about working

with democrats on these issues. and it's, like what i tell them is that we have basic obligations as american citizens. thanks to uphold the democracy require things like, three simple things that political scientists will tell us. you accept election results. you disavow violence. and when it comes to extremist actors in your own party, you have to reject that. it is very important to police the dangerous wing of your party and say, we don't stand for that. if people in both parties do those three things, our democracy is much stronger. that doesn't require a lot, right? i don't have to sacrifice what i feel about the size and scope of government to say, you know what? i can do those three things and that is a basic benchmark for anyone in elected office. >> -- what you are saying makes total sense, but it's not happening. right? and also on top of that, the partisan environment that we are in -- this is really what i'm trying to get that at with the speech

enlisting to it. he goes after trump, which he has to do, directly, but in this partisan environment it feels almost like people can't hear the message about democracy outside of a partisan lens, which seems to undermine what biden is trying to do here, which is to say, this is bigger than r&d. this is bigger than me. >> i think we should give the american people more credit than we often do in the sense that donald trump lost in 2020 because of a lot of the shenanigans, because of a lot of just dismissing the norms and particularly making light of covid and mishandling covid. i think it's very possible that 2020 for his court cases and him being in front of a judge every week or so is going to be the equivalent of 2020 or people just don't want the noise and so the same way you are saying, don't people tune it out, hard to breakthrough, people also don't want to be hearing about it every day from the president. and i have to deal with it

every day for four years hearing this guy just yelling in their ear, whether you like to do or not, it wore thin. so, if you think people are hearing, it but also not hearing it isn't the worst thing. that's why joe biden won, it was return to somewhat normalcy, and a same person who cared about america. >> i have a feeling the next couple of months are not going to be as quiet. things are about to pick up. amanda and philippe, thank you very much. up next, president biden is facing attacks for joining striking autoworkers in michigan. it is coming from one of his rivals on the left. presidential candidate cornel west will join me, live. plus, house republicans hold their first hearing and president biden's impeachment inquiry. it was full of false claims. the fact-checked is coming up next.

>> less than 24 hours from now the auto workers strike will likely be expanding as the uaw and carmakers for maine pretty far apart in those talks. and, in the political battle for the union vote, president biden is now facing fresh criticism tonight over his visit to the picket lines in

michigan this week. but not from the right, instead, he's getting some of the criticism from the left. specifically, his 2024 green party democratic challenger cornel west. he argues it was just a symbolic gesture. cornel west joins us right now. dr. west, thank you for being here. symbolic in maybe. >> thank you very much. >> symbolic maybe, but it was also historic. a president on a picket line. why does that not satisfy you? >> my dear sister, i have just come from a memorial o f barbara ehrenreich, author of nickeled and dimed. -- certain kind of treatments that

are deleterious for working people and -- cozy with wall street and so on and -- i'm glad to see him there. but symbols in the end are empty if they are not tied to concrete policies that onshore the work is a joint union, following through, not just would showing up and speaking, but actually ensuring that workers have weighed expansion in a concrete and serious way, not just workers there and uaw, and god bless both picket lines in new york as well as detroit. but, workers across the board. >> let's talk about some of those -- >> suspicious of the symbolic gestures and they don't have that kind of substance. >> let's talk about some concrete things to your point. president biden signed a landmark large infrastructure bill that included pro-labor language, and requirements in

that bill. he signed an executive order that mandates project labor agreements on major federal construction plans. he appointed folks to the national labor relations board who made it easier for unions to overcome employer intimidation and illegal firings. those are concrete things, and i think he would agree that president biden, even before he was president, he spoke quite a lot about his support for unions. >> he spoke a lot, but if you actually look at his record -- >> i just listed -- i did list those -- >> symbolic gestures, and what you just noted, my dear sister, is that this -- relative of what was in -- place to trump. he replaced trump national labor relations board, absolutely right, you're right the infrastructure bill it was better than trump, but, he stripped elements of that bill that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and others are

trying to push through, so that it still ended up limping through and it wasn't just because the republicans. he doesn't have this heart in it. i wish she would show up at some of these mass incarceration sites. i wish he would show up and some of the police departments dealing with police brutality as well. i want to see a fundamental commitment of biden and the democratic party and poor and working people, and my hunch is that they are not capable of it because the same people who are supporting biden happen to be the ceos of the company that are crushing these precious workers. the same donors who support biden democratic party are crushing the workers. so, the symbolic gesture, okay, that's fine, and think about this, though, sister, can you imagine the first president to actually march on the picket line for workers, do you know how many strikes and picket lines there has been in the history of america that there's finally a president -- >> i take your point that president biden is certainly

not going as far as you and perhaps many others would like. but, i want to ask you about your presidential run. because president biden's approval ratings remain low. and, when we look at this matchup between him and trump, it is a very tight race and some polls it's -- even and maybe trump has a slight lead, how does your run not making it easier for trump to be victorious in 2024? >> we are making decisions in realtime, there's a good chance that neither biden or trump will be the ultimate candidate and might run out of gas, trump might end up in jail, we don't know, history is unpredictable. i'm here to bear witness. i'm here to speak on behalf of poor people, poverty, homelessness, reshaping fundamental mass incarceration system, curtailing militarism abroad to ensure we don't have a world war iii against russia or even china. that is part of --

biden's military -- >> in that vein, would you consider dropping out before the actual november election if you felt like your presence in this campaign would have an effect on the outcome? >> i plan to bear witness until the end of this. i support you and your show and so forth, i must say, but no, this is a matter of bearing witness, and in fact, consider a possibility that given the unpredictable factors, i may win this thing. let's have a public debate. let's all stand on the stage. let's articulate our visions, our analysis, our connection to whose legacy we come out of. legacy of martin king -- fannie lou hamer -- >> --

>> -- about the issue of slavery, but he also said this. take a listen. >> black families survived slavery. we survived poll taxes and literacy tests. we survived discrimination being woven into the laws of our country. what was hard to survive was johnson's great society where they decided to take the black father out of the household to get a check in the mail and you can now measure that and unemployment and crime and devastation. >> you are a scholar, dr. west, what do you make of that response? >> you know, tim scott is my brother, but he is just so wrong on so many issues. the black family survived under slavery, we had love networks in which we were able to sustain the care. but, the family itself

underwent tremendous massive damage. we bounced back after slavery and the, first things they did was walk hundreds and hundreds of miles to join their loved ones. in the 1960s, what we're talking about, and 1960s were talking about rural folk trying to move into the urban center, the industrial center to become part of an industrial working class and had tremendous difficulties and make the transition. i was in detroit yesterday, black families we are strong in detroit in the 1950s and 60s when they had jobs and living wages and when they had some control over their community. when you think of the shattering of the black families, so much of it has to do with the unbelievable unemployment, underemployment, and then the market forces reshaping how people relate to each other, reshaping our how black folk and our flow of guns, and the flow of guns from outside the black community.

i must say, you can imagine, it takes -- someone our to try to clarify the sting. and i don't have the -- tim scott has just given some right-wing talking points, trying to keep his campaign alive. >> all right, cornel west, we appreciate you joining us tonight, thank you. >> thank you so very much, you are very kind. >> -- philippe ryan us reines back with me to respond. philippe, i want to start with the comments he made about president biden -- >> it looked like his heart was in it. but you made the point that this is a step in a long series of things that joe biden has done over his career. i would understand with dr. west was saying if joe biden parachuted eight out of the we are. had never did anything for american workers or labor or for average americans. whatever you want to call in. but, he is showing up after decades of doing that. he will do it for the rest of his life. so, it's not symbolic in the

sense that it is out of no work nowhere, and, symbolism is important. i'm sure to the workers on those picket lines, they appreciate it. >> the thing about the symbolism is that he did it after trump said he was going to go, and actually a week ago, i had -- karine jean-pierre -- on the show and she said, we have no plans at the moment. a couple days later, they announced plans. >> i don't think it's-for-tat. i really don't. when you look at joe biden talking to that crowd, that's joe biden. that's joe biden in his element average joe worker joe, i have to take issue with a couple things dr. west said. he was involved in a pretty symbolic event of the white house during the obama administration. he thought there was value to that and there was. there is often value to showing up. it's why whatever saying, is 90% of life is showing up. i'm sure those workers

appreciate it. but more importantly, dr. west will not be president of united states. he might prevent joe biden from being president united states the same way ralph nader prevented al gore and the same way jill stein granted hillary clinton and no coincidence, joe biden did not face any kind of meaningful third-party challenge in 2020. >> how soon do you think he needs to drop out? as soon do you think that would happen? >> what he is doing is pointless. you asked him ten different ways, he's not answering, it doesn't make a difference i think, he's not going to drop out. he's also whipping people up. there are not going to work for biden, they're not going donate to biden, they are not going to get out the vote. now, if it just people in massachusetts, okay, that's not so bad i, feel pretty good about him. but, tamping down enthusiasm or by attacking the nominee of our own party, no good comes from that. i just cannot believe that he would want donald trump to emerge from that, but he has to realize, as a student of history, and for bearing witness as he said all these years to what happens. he has to know that he's walking a very dangerous path.

>> we'll see if he does. philippe, thank you for staying around. >> thanks for having me. >> up next, first impeachment hearing a president biden, not going how republicans wanted, including testimony from witnesses saying, there is no evidence yet to prove the gop allegations. plus, anxiety is gripping top donors after the republican debate last night, as new reporting suggests that some of them are now looking to, get this, virginia governor, glenn youngkin to step in.

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evidence of wrongdoing by biden >> -- bribes from burisma -- >> daniel dale is, of course, here to fact check all this. let's start right there where you just heard nancy mace. she says, president biden, definitively, we know, president biden has taken bribes from burisma. what is the truth? >> she said, we absolutely do not know this. this is a completely uncorroborated allegations. all we know is that there is an internal fbi documents from 2020 that says that year, an informant deemed highly credible had told him that for four years part, the ceo of printing company burisma had claimed he had given 5 million to one biden, 5 million to another. that document contained no corroboration. in fact, the documents and even this informant could not offer an opinion on the veracity of the claim. it's now three years later, we still have no proof of it.

and i will, no abby, in the same hearing, it a witness called -- secondhand, account it can only take an allegation like this so far. >> he also said, he doesn't support, he doesn't think the evidence they have supports an actual impeachment. so, the other thing is that house republicans set this hearing up, and said they would have the receipts. here is what chairman comer said in his opening remarks today. >> just this week, we uncovered two addition wires to hunter biden that originated in beijing from chinese nationals. this happened when joe biden was running for president of the united states and joe biden he's listed as the beneficiary address. >> it seems to me there are some things missing here. >> there are some very serious important things missing. these wire transfers did happen in 2019. what chairman comer did not mention was that there is quite plausible and quite benign possible explanation for why

president biden is listed as the so-called beneficiary. andrés. that is that hunter biden, his son, had lived at that house. he listed the address on his drivers license, we know this, and his lawyer, abbe lowell, told cnn that the reason his address was listed was because he had open a bank account with a similar, s and the lawyer said that's because that was his only permanent address at the time. the fact that the address was there is not evidence whatsoever that joe biden got the money, in fact, they are pretty obvious explanations for why it might have been. >> there is some more evidence that was presented in the hearing, but it was actually congresswoman alexandria cortez alexandria ocasio-cortez who actually accused republicans of fabricating parts of it, or at least omit in key parts of that evidence. >> democratic attempt to fact-check. so, why don't we listen to this exchange, it was porter florida republican congressman byron donalds and then congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez

responded to it later. take a listen. >> this is about four months before joe biden launched his campaign for president four of the united states. -- december 2018. the highlight is, this is a text message between jim biden and hunter biden. hunter biden was in a bad way, by the way. who's really strong strung out. -- concerned about them trying to give plausible deniability for the president of the united states, to not have any knowledge of said business dealings? >> what was brought out from that fabricated image excluded critical context that changed the underlying meaning and allegation that weighs was presented on that screen. >> so, the congresswoman, abby, congressman donald donald's did leave that critical context. what were they talking about? yesterday as republicans released us text exchange between hunter biden and his uncle, james biden. and the actual context shows that hunter biden was saying --

basically, he has run out of money and he can pay his kids to tradition, he can pay for gas and food can't pay alimony without help from his father. and then james biden responds that it is kind of vague language but basically they can't work on this, that he can work with his father alone, he can be a safe harbor and so anyway the context of this is hunter biden saying he doesn't have money for personal experience expenses. his uncle saying, yeah i, can work with your dad on that. there was nowhere anywhere in this exchange that was released by house republicans that -- this was about business dealings let alone the foreign business dealings that house republicans have been focused on. but congressman donalds did not release the hunter biden text message that precedes his uncles response. and so we did not allow people to understand that this was about alimony, personal expenses, rather than personal expenses. >> daniel dale, thank you. -- we will see if there are more of these hearings. but either way, you will be pretty busy. >> i will. >> thank you so much. -- and after a second debate, are gop donors now looking for greener pastures? --

new reporting says that some of them are eyeing virginia governor glenn youngkin to enter the race. plus, britney spears gets a wellness check after posting this video showing her dancing with butcher knives.

>> for the republicans who don't want donald trump to be their nominee, it's a parent they are getting anxious today. one day after that messy presidential debate, the washington post is now reporting that some big donors are preparing to draft another candidate, virginia governor glenn youngkin. let's discuss this with tim pawlenty, former governor of minnesota who is a republican presidential candidate back in 2012.

governor tim pawlenty, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. good to be with you. >> let's understand this. why do so many people in your party believe that glenn youngkin would be able to perform outperform trump, when all of these other republicans, some of them very accomplished governors and their own right, former governors -- all those other candidates cannot. >> i think it is probably a group of people who don't understand what is taking place at the base level in the republican party. governor youngkin is amazingly talented individual, incredible leader, and he would be a great president. but based on today's faxed, absent a political earthquake, donald trump is going to be the republican nominee next year. and whether governor youngkin gets in the race or not at, least as a republican, it's trump's race. things can change. but i think that's the way clearly looks right now. so, with all due respect to governor youngkin, i don't think he's going to beat trump

in republican primary caucus contest. >> this does seem like a fantasy of the donor or consultant class in washington. but you know this well. you dropped out pretty early in august of 2012, in the presidential race. given what you just laid out, shouldn't some of these candidates right now be having a come to jesus moment and thinking, i should get out? >> they have run for a variety of motives, by the way. not all of them think they are necessarily going to win. they have some other motives potentially involved. vice president and other appointments and alike. but, to your point, if anyone is going to beat donald trump, the field is going to have to consolidate. you will have -- for the good of the effort, if we the goal is to put a real competitor, a one-on-one competitor to donald trump. this field is going to -- to have to win no. but it's hard for candidates, especially if they have resources and still -- believe they have a shot or to have a voice, to drop out. and the reality is, they drop out when they run out of money. when if the voters donors want the -- field to window, especially the

anti-trump donors, than 82 have to stop giving money across -- get this thing down to -- couple of main competitors -- the president trump. >> we just put it up on the screen the latest polling of that field. it's trump all the way the top, 58%. and everyone else down below. if you add them all up, they don't even get to close to where trump is. >> yeah, it's a commanding lead. it's commanding lead. again, this is going to take an existential event. but we don't even yet see to change that. >> but do you think a one-on-one race would give them a shot at getting closer to trump? >> a better shot. at least somebody would be in position. somebody would be showcased. somebody would get most of the non-trump attention. and that would help. so, if it's going to happen at all, and i don't believe it is, but if it's going to happen at all, he have to optimize your chances of it happening, and the way to do that is to dramatically waino

winnow -- >> we'll possibility that he could be convicted during the next election. isn't that an existential threat? >> to me, it is, for sure. that would be a political earthquake by any normal or historical standards. but with president trump, he's like godzilla in the old movies they are tank at him, he gets stronger. a missile comes in, he gets stronger. he just sort of bounces stuff away and gets going. maybe a felony conviction and maybe jail time would do it. but i'm not sure we are going to get there, first of all. second of all, i'm not sure he would even drop out then. >> look, in our business we like to say it's early. it's almost october in just a couple days. but it's not feeling that way. it certainly starting to feel like this thing is not as fluid as i think some of the candidates in this field would like. yeah, go ahead. >> i was going to say, i think a lot of people in the republican party, even folks who are skeptical of or

anti-trump are coming to that realization, that reality. >> governor tim pawlenty, thank you for joining us. >> you are welcome. have a great night. >> up next, the social media video that sparked a wellness check for popstar britney spears.