members come to me. one thing, i don't like the idea a member comes and tries to leverage me. i don't go for that. i'll vote for the bill, that's not well. but if you have a problem with the bill, i want to help you. but i can't sit there and write your entire bill and work it all the way through committee. we just got one bill out. it came back. the other bill doing on guns just wasn't working. do you want to do something else? we did something else. i just don't appreciate -- look, i bite my lip. i let people say things that are not true, but it's not right. it is not right. our chief of staff told all of us we have kept every single one of our words. and he said he's told her that too. now somehow he gets fired, i'll still get him a job. i'm being too honest now? >> you argue the institution might -- not. [ inaudible question ] >> oh my god, no, but do i

regret the democrats playing games with january 6th? yes. they played so many politics. what they did to this institution, what they did to this building was so wrong. the idea that they put magnetometers there, the idea that they would go to any republican member that they had been co-sponsors of bills, and they no longer could be a co-sponsor, that they would find members $5,000 if the magazine top of theers went on. but when nancy went around it or clyburn, it all got waived. the idea that bills didn't have to go through committee, the idea they created a select committee on january 6th and they wouldn't let the minority appoint who to do it? i'm trying to change all that and bring the body back so they can work together. but i think they did a lot of damage to us. yes, sir? >> the house is trying to pass the appropriations bill one by one. where are you in the process -- >> that's always been my goal. you know, i just talked to mitch

yesterday, and i had a call in to schumer, and i talked to hakeem last night. what i was going to do is because we had passed. we had taken five up. we passed four of them. i was going the start individually preconferencing so we can get this work done. i'm concerned with the timeline now. look, i truly believe at the end of the day, we can get this all worked out. i do believe at the end of the day, we can find common ground and do something about the border. i don't know if this has caused problems. look, i was doing squawk today, and they had the other tv on msnbc. and the first time i saw msnbc running a whole story about the border, with people just walking across. pritzker sent a letter yesterday about the immigration. massachusetts governor state of emergency. connecticut. everybody is becoming the number one. they cannot ignore it. and i had told my members all before, i heard gaetz say on the floor oh my god, kevin asked for

top gap measure when we kalmbach. the whole plan was buzz those eight and a few more had held up passing any bills all summer, i was going to do just what we did saturday, a stopgap measure with disaster. i had gone out to hawaii. we looked at what happened to florida. those people shouldn't be held back. and we could finish doing it all individually. but somehow they think that's a dirty word. yes? >> have you spoken with your -- [ inaudible question ] >> oh, yeah. oh, you know, my poor mom. have you guys met my mom yet? my mom is fabulous. my mom is this italian lady. and she calls me the other day. she said oh -- she gets worried, reads what you guys write. and she says i'm so nervous, i'm so nervous. why, mom? it's all right. last night when she went in the house and left her car running in the garage all night long. my mom only fills her car up once a week in costco and then

calls me. she still lives in california. the price of gas is so high. she asks me what i'm going to do about it. i think this job is always harder on your loved ones than you yourself. they'll be okay. >> did you make a signed deal with the white house on ukraine? >> no, no. look, unequivocally no. oh, well, if you want to categorize this. people think, i did tell -- when we were doing the stopgap measure, there was a concern in there, does it have transferability on money. i believed and my staff believed that it did. but what i did say to the white house, if it does not, if you think some way it doesn't do it, he will fix that. i did say that, and i did say i'd do it. look, i support arming ukraine. that doesn't mean sending them cash, but arming ukraine. i have been on the white house even before they sent the supplemental, i said you guys are doing it all wrong by just

sending it as a supplemental. and i think the president is failing here because he's not telling the american public what is the mission. now, we have a lot of members who are navy s.e.a.l.s who have been in theater, and f-18 pilots, and they're frustrated. they want to support, but they don't want to support an never ending war. they want to see what is going on here. on the white house, you got to come down and talk to everybody, but you should listen to them and the prospects. i'm really concerned the long-term. what's happening around looks a lot like the 1930s. a lot of actions that putin takes is very similar to hitler. if you are history buffs, you'll know, hitler served in the world war i army, right? he hated that his country collapsed and he signed the treaty of versailles. and what did he do? he ran and created a new party and ran a democracy.

again and again and again until he won. and when he won, what did he do? he took the freedoms away. and then he rebuilt his military. even though it went against the treaty of versailles, the world power said nothing. and then what did he do? he took part of czechoslovakia. he took austria. and then he told the entire world he was going to take the rest of it on a given day. so now the world power could not sit back. so in comes neville chamberlain. what had happened? well, hitler loved it because he was equal now to the world power. but he saw weakness. neville chamberlain made him sign a piece of paper and told peace for our time. and then he invaded poland the next year and world war ii began. if you study, putin didn't serve in the soviet union army, but he served in the kgb. he hated that his country collapsed to the west. he hated it so much, when gorbachev died, he still didn't

attend the funeral. what did he do? he rebuilt his military. but he learned something. a military makes you strong, but dependency makes you weak. he rebuilt it by selling his natural gas to europe. but when his pipeline that went through ukraine, when they changed power, he didn't want the pay. so he proposed a new pipeline, nord stream 2. everybody loved it. america at least sanctioned it. merkel said great. but what did he do when he rebuilt his military? invaded georgia, took part of the donbas, took crimea, and the world powers really didn't say much. but then when he parked 100,000 troops on the border of ukraine, and after he watched afghanistan collapse, that's going to give us challenges for the next two decades. he got his meeting with the world power. so in comes biden. and what does biden do? he lifts the sanctions off nord

stream 2, but asks nothing for it. putin misreads that and invades ukraine, thinking it would collapse in two weeks based upon afghanistan. but now we have something even worse that's happened in the 1930s. before hitler moved, he created an axis of power, right? with italy and japan, all countries who wanted to expand their sphere of influence. before putin invaded afghanistan, what did he do? create an axis of power with china, north korea, and iran. all countries who want to expand their sphere of influence. so what we do here is very important. we can't sit there and just collapse it, because it will look from afghanistan. we can't just throw money at it. if we provide the weapons to be successful but why it's so much personal to me, in -- was it 2014 or 2015, when putin invaded

the first time, i went to ukraine. and then i came back. and i took a bipartisan group, and we went to the white house, and we sat in the situation room with then the vice president who was in charge of ukraine, joe biden. and we advocated let's sell them javelins so they can stop tanks. so they wouldn't invade. he said no. he said europeans wouldn't want it. why don't we sell them to them now and keep them in poland, then. didn't think that was right. and i fear of making the same mistake twice. and sending the wrong messages. but the thing i would tell everybody is more americans are dying on the southern border than are dying in ukraine. each and every day, a plane of americans crash from fentanyl. and i don't understand how the white house continues to ignore it. my whole plan, and i've been up

front from the very beginning what i would say, if you want anything on ukraine, we got to do something with the border. >> mr. president, you mentioned earlier -- >> i was joking. they're all right. >> consider supporting primary challenges to republicans? >> you know one of the things when i was running for speaker, i couldn't get involved in primaries. but i told the conference, i'm a free agent now, aren't i? i think i'm pretty good at electing people. >> when is the last time you spoke to president biden, and do you expect to now? >> you know, i was thinking than. it's been a long, long time. >> couldn't remember when i spoke to him last. you know, i've worked with a couple of different presidents. i would have thought -- i thought we had built some respect for one another going through the debt ceiling. i know he got frustrated with me, but -- and i have a great deal of respect for the people

in his office i worked for, richette and, they're smart. i respect them. they were honest. and i thought we made a good agreement. as a president, i would engage more. i think being hands-on, look, you're the leader of the free world. all the other presidents i think bringing people together is a better way talking through stuff. when you're in those rooms, you can talk about all sorts of things. >> do you think opening additional inquiry to his son might have been trigger to that? >> to what part? >> the part about you guys not communicating very much? >> no, let's talk about that. you guys play -- remember what an impeachment inquiry is. simply the ability to give the house, republicans and democrats the power when you request for information. so if you were lawmakers and i hold you in highest steam, because you are investigative

reporters. you're supposed to cover this stuff. when i came into power, i didn't know any of this. i did not know when he was vice president that his family created 20 shell companies. i had no about that. not saying that's wrong. i did not know they got 16 of the 17 payments from romania while he was vice president, and he was supposed to be in charge of romania. i didn't know that. i had no idea when a whistle-blower came to us and said that the fbi has an informant they still pay who claims that the president was bribed by $5 million. and what's interesting, we had to fight to get that document. and when we got that document, it said it would be hard to find because he has a lot of shell companies. then i had no idea that irs agents would come to us. how would i know? they come to us and say, look, we've worked for 16 years. we don't have any political

basis on the other side, but we're concerned with what's happened here, that doj allowed the statute of limitations to run out, that they weren't allowed to interview hunter because when they went and told the fbi, they told them, and then they even told the inaugural committee, i don't know how that played in, that the doj would call hunter biden's attorneys and tell them they don't even know about a storage unit with all the papers before they could go there. the president told us he never had a meeting. he never talked to his son. look, when he said he never talked to his son, i don't believe that. i don't think it's wrong you talk to your son. i want you to talk to your kids about anything. it doesn't mean you're influencing anything. i had no idea that the partner to hunter biden that also served on the ukrainian energy board said they would literally call in to meetings. and then he said that they were getting a lot of pressure, bure

re burisma, to do something about the ukraine prosecutor. and i did know the president tell the entire country that he withheld a billion dollars of american taxpayer money to get rid of the prosecutor. and then we found out that the president not only called into meetings, he went to cafe milano. he went to cafe milano more times and met with the business parters of hunter biden than he has gone to the boarder in 50 years. but with each meeting you went to cafe milano, and i've never had this happen. i've been to cafe milano, but i've never gotten a new porsche the next day and never got $3 million wired to me from a russian oligarch. so if you knew all of that, would you at least say hmm, i think there is more. we've never asked for the tax -- or the bank statements of the president, of hunter, or anybody else. and these 20 shell companies had credit cards that were being paid. now this laptop that was supposed to be russian that we now found out was hunter, in there he did say his father would take the money from him.

he did make -- and we did find out that the president -- i didn't know this when i became speaker, used another name while he was vice president for emails. and in one of the emails, it said -- it only went to him and his son hunter, and it was about a phone call he was going to have with the president of ukraine. now, if you knew all of that, would you say oh, i don't have any more questions. or would you say at least as a lawmaker, and you have a role here, wouldn't you at least say okay, well, we're going have to go get some more documents. and if you're going get nor documents, i just want to make sure if they're going to fight it and string everything out, that we can get it. that's all an impeachment inquiry. now if that made the president upset, maybe he shouldn't have lied to us from the beginning. yes? >> former president trump is very active in supporting you -- mr. gaetz not telling the truth

on several things, claimed today the president supported what -- what was your experience -- >> i doubt if that's true. yes, ma'am? >> you spoke about fundraising prowess and hoping the majority is here last year. are you nervous that because -- [ inaudible question ] >> look, i didn't say that. i was just told that by democrats in their conference. that's what helped them make their decision, that a lot of the frontline -- i think their quote was why would we help the person that becomes our executioner. >> do you think that today's events will hurt the conference's chance of expanding? >> no, i'm sure matt gaetz will give the nrcc a lot of money. he raised a lot online. >> you mentioned that gaetz had a grudge against you and it's personal. why does he not like you? >> i'm not quite sure. i don't need to find out either. look, judge me by my enemies.

>> have you spoken -- before wednesday? >> no. >> so much of this area of str strategy. [ inaudible question ] conservative option to try and pass that and then see -- do you think that was the right tactic? should congress do that going forward? >> well, let me ask you this. >> -- democrats earlier. >> let me ask you this. would we ever have gotten the debt court of appealing? the president said he would never talk to me, that we just had to raise it. had we not passed the bill so, yes, i think it worked well. all right. yes? >> what kind of roles do you see yourself playing in the party moving forward? is that campaign? >> well, no, i'll continue to help all the way possible. look, i've been very fortunate. when i came to congress in my second term, i got to be chief deputy whip. i got to be majority whip.

i got to be majority leader. i've been minority leader and i've been speaker. i've been blessed. and there is something about 10,000 hours i believe in it, a lot of different experience. i believe in bringing new blood up and helping them. and i want to help them all the way. look, i enjoy you. i don't know if you'll cover me as much. but i'm sure i won't miss you, but see you soon. >> a wide ranging former house speaker kevin mccarthy holding forth on a broad variety of subjects from impeachmenting presidents to hitler. ousted as speaker. good evening, along with jake tapper and kaitlan collins. thank you for joining us. that was now congressman mccarthy speaking to reporters, moments ago saying he would not be trying to get that job back. >> i don't regret standing up for choosing up for governing over grievance. it is my responsibility. it is my job. i do not regret negotiating. our government is designed to find compromise.

i don't regret my efforts to build coalitions and find solutions. i was raised to solve problems, not create them. so i may have lost a vote today, but as i walk out of this chamber, i feel fortunate to have served the american people. >> kevin mccarthy taking his name out of the running, which in turn came moments after the house republican conference meeting which set a vote on his replacement for next week. according to members afterwards, meaning it seems a week-long power vacuum for the house, a week of would-be leaders maneuvering for position, a week in which nothing of any consequence in congress gets done. >> anderson, it was quite a finish to an already historic day. a house speaker undone by a rebellion within his party led by ultra maga florida congressman matt gaetz. the last time there was a motion to vacate, a vote to get rid a speaker was in 1910, but speaker joe cannon soundly survived that

vote. speaker kevin mccarthy not so much. >> on this vote, the yeas are 216. the nays are 210. the resolution is adopted. without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table. the office of speaker of the house of the united states house of representatives is hereby declared vacant. >> moments after that, speaker pro tem patrick mchenry of north carolina gavelled out the session, and it kind of looked like he was pretending matt gaetz's head. >> the chair declares the house in recess subject to the call of the chair. >> very angry. eight republican members led by gaetz sealed mccarthy's fate, using the one-vote motion to vacate tool that mccarthy rather recklessly agreed to in order to get the speakership.

mccarthy rode the tiger, as john f. kennedy famously said, and then found himself inside it. after 269 days, or about 27 scaramuccis on the job, or as goes the meme of our era, anderson, i never thought leopards would eat my face, sobs woman who voted for the leopards eating faces party. >> and now, jake, having done what's never been done before, republican lawmakers have left themselves unable to agree on what to do next. manu raju has been in the center of this all day. we start with him for the very latest. what more do we know about mccarthy's decision not to run for speaker again? >> anderson, he really didn't have a path. 218 votes is what we would need to be elected speaker. the eight members in the republican party of course voting to oust him, joining with all democrats. mccarthy had indicated for some time that he wanted to go to the floor. he was going to fight it out. that's what he was suggesting. but in recent days he had been coy, sidestepping the question when i put it to him over and

over again, and ultimately making a decision there is simply no path for him. now the question is where do the republican party go from here? who can actually get 218 votes? already several names are emerging, anderson. but at the moment, nobody has a path to victory, which means that it's going to be several days before members start to float their names, assess whether they have support before we head into that speaker race next week. in the meantime, everything is stalled here in the house, anderson. >> i know you asked jim jordan if he'd run. he didn't rule it out. >> yeah, he didn't rule it out, which is actually news, because last -- over the last several years in the run-up to mccarthy's election of speaker back in january, he refused. he said i don't want to be speaker. i want to be the house judiciary committee chairman. a much different tune earlier today as a number of republican critics of these hard-liners, these mccarthy allies went after those eight republicans. instead they're undermining the republican majority and

threatened their hold on power in next year's elections. >> i think kevin recognizes that nobody can meet their demands, and the conference is going have to figure out how we -- how we deal with, you know, eight people that are here that candidly aren't interested in governing. they're more interested in grifting. >> republicans who have been claiming to be fiscal conservatives just voted with every single democrat in the house of representatives. that would be the equivalent of every republican voting for nancy pelosi. that's what they did. >> mr. jordan, how disappoint ready you with the what happened here and speaker mccarthy? >> i thought it was unfair to kevin. kevin i think has done a fine job. he and i came in together. he is a good man, and he didn't deserve this, in my judgment. >> will you run for speaker? >> that's a decision for the conference. >> so are you open to it? >> so clearly leaving the option open there. there will be a lot of talk about jordan. some of the members on the far right have been pushing him. he is also aligned with mccarthy

allies himself. where jordan goes remains to be seen. but he could have a race on his hands. still uncertain what steve scalise will do. he is the number two republican, or was under speaker mccarthy. he was the house majority leader. he has not said what he plans to do. questions about tom emmer, the republican whip, and another name too, kevin hern who is the chairman of the republican the largest conservative group in the house has indicated privately that he is open to running for speaker. anderson, this decision by mccarthy in this historic day opens up a chaotic series of days as the republicans try to figure out their way forward, trying to figure out a new speaker of the house. and that has huge implications for the agenda, trying to avoid a government shutdown in a month, and also their efforts to take back the house as the speaker, of course, is a key driver of their message, their strategy, their tactics, their fundraising. major questions for republicans.

for the moment, no consensus beyond who gets to succede speaker mccarthy. >> joining us republican congressman ken buck who voted to oust mccarthy. what is your reaction to kevin mccarthy saying he will not run for speaker again? >> i think that's a positive thing. and i credit kevin for doing that. i think we need to move on. i think we need to find a new speaker. we've got several days. i'm sure there are going to be conversations going on all over the country about how we move forward. obviously, steve scalise is next in line. i think people respect that. he has some health issues. we'll see what his decisions is on whether he running for speaker. >> what about jim jordan in your opinion? >> i think jim is one of the names also out there. you know, i'm not going make a decision until i know who is running and listen to them and hear them make a case for why they should be next up. >> one of the republican congressmen talking to manu raju in that sound bite said the eight who voted against mccarthy actually aren't interested in

getting things done. i think he referred to all eight as grifters. you're obviously one of those eight. how do you take that? >> i think the criticism comes with the job. i am interested in making sure we move 12 appropriations bills forward, that we stop this reckless spending spree that congress has been on. for 27 years we've passed an omnibus instead of the 12 bills. this year we were promised the 12 bills. we're not there yet. and i hope we get there. >> so what was it that made you decide to want to get rid of mccarthy? >> and i really don't want to look back, anderson. there was a lot of conversation about that in the past. i want to look forward and make sure we do the best we can for the united states congress, and make sure that we are passing laws and getting the job done. >> you are certainly considered a conservative. kevin mccarthy just said at his press conference that the eight republicans that voted against him are not conservatives. >> yeah. i would put my record up, my

voting record up against anybody in the conference in terms of conservative votes. i am particularly conservative when it comes to spending bills, and that has been the weakness this year for the republican conference. we have one bill passed before last week. we passed three last week. we've got eight more to go. and the deadline passed on september 30th. so we should have been doing this in june. we should have been doing this in july. i think a lot of people conflate the fact that the democrats want kevin mccarthy out for one reason and conservative republicans want him out for another reason. it doesn't make us less conservative. it makes us more practical in how we get the spending bills done. >> what about all the spending and under the previous administration? >> i'm not -- oh, you mean under the trump administration? >> yeah. >> absolutely. i voted against those spending bills also. i am not excusing republicans. anderson, this is a bipartisan bankruptcy. this is not one party. this is both parties engaging

with a special interest groups in this town to bankrupt america. we're going to be at $33 trillion in debt soon, going up to 36. it is not republicans' fault alone or democrats' fault alone. it is something that has historically happened in this country. >> to those who say that maybe not you included, but the people, the eight who voted against him, people point to matt gaetz as being not interested in actually compromise, a compromise is a dirty word that actually, you know, reaching over to the other side, having discussions, and figuring out some sort of compromise for both parties is the only way to get things done. do you agree with that? >> i absolutely agree with that. i work very hard on antitrust bills in this body with democrats. i've worked very hard on many other bills in this body with democrats. what would you start in a compromise, you start with two different positions. the house will have one position on a piece of legislation that it passes, and the senate will have a different one. and then you compromise between

the two bodies. if you give up your position early on in that negotiation, you don't have a compromise anymore. you have a capitulation. and we can't afford that. so i'm happy to pass 12 appropriations bills and then have the compromise with the senate. >> congress ken buck, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> jake? >> all right, anderson. just to add a little color to the dynamics between now congressman kevin mccarthy and congressman matt gaetz, i want to show you what mccarthy tweeted last night shortly before gaetz launched his challenge. here it is. mccarthy said "bring it on." and gaetz done brung it. with me here senior cnn political analyst gloria borger, dana bash, cnn's audie cornish, host of the wonderful podcast the assignment, and cnn political director david chalian. let's take a moment to reflect

on the -- i don't know if it's a farewell press conference, whatever it was, but kevin mccarthy started off with kind of a statesman like address to the masses. and before it was over, he was going through the litany of hunter biden innuendos, faulting the democrats for their behavior regarding january 6th, which was an interesting twist, and going member by member in terms of the house republicans who voted against him, even getting into the granular detail about whether or not congresswoman nancy mace's chief of staff sided with him and not her. you kind of got an understanding there, maybe, of why he lost his job. >> he -- it was kevin mccarthy

unplugged. it was kevin mccarthy obviously with a lot on his chest that he wanted to get out there. about the people who wronged him. there were a lot of, from his perspective, the people who wronged him. there were a lot of small jabs like what we just heard about from nancy mace, and then there were big accusations and criticisms, philosophical criticisms about the eight, generally speaking that he says look, they're not conservative. i'm conservative. they're just people who are in the no caucus. they don't really believe what they claim that they believe. someone like ken buck, who was talking to anderson before, he is a true fiscal conservative. >> yeah. >> but then matt gaetz is really talking about matt gaetz in particular. and this is going to take a long time for this house conference to heal. it is raw. it is ugly. it is -- it is very, very

shredded when it comes to the republican family in the house of representatives. and there are a whole bunch of reasons for that, but right now it's -- i've never seen anything like this. >> yeah. and it was a different republican who said a house divided cannot stand. we saw a real succession when the pelosi generation handed over power to hakeem jeffries and kathleen clark and the others. >> it was smooth. >> very smooth. and the tumult we're about to see, not only is there not just automatically going from kevin mccarthy to his number two steve scalise and on and on, it's going to be a free-for-all. it's going to be a melee. instead of proceeding to a vote this evening, as i guess i thought they might proceed to votes, the house is adjourning until next week. there is going to be a candidate

forum. they're in charge of the how many times house of representatives and they had no idea what to do. >> and a lot of business has stopped. >> they're supposed to be doing the people's business right now. >> now they're trying to figure out who can lead them. and, you know, mccarthy's goodbye, as you said, it started out in a generous way, and then it sort of went into this stream of consciousness almost about everybody he was aggrieved against, particularly matt gaetz, particularly the eight people who voted against him, the eight republicans where he said the country was too great for the small visions of these eight. and then it went downhill. from there. and so you have mccarthy also making it clear that while he said he wasn't going to get involved in primaries, if he were to become speaker, he also made it clear that now he's going to get involved in primaries.

so i think there is going to be a lot of retribution here. and this doesn't help the conference heal itself because there are all kinds of factions. i was texting with someone who said to me that matt gaetz is a leper and a cancer. on the republican party. this isn't over yet. and as dana was saying, they want the get somebody soon, maybe by next week, if they can do that. but how can they do that if the hard feelings are the way they are. >> i mean, it is the least surprising development in some ways that we got to this moment, right? because we all sat here in january. >> yeah. >> when kevin mccarthy was seeking to become speaker, and when we learned that he made this concession about one person can bring the motion to vacate. >> and we all said oh, man. >> well, this is going to be a bumpy ride. he is going to be living with this hanging over his head the

entire time. what maybe is a bit more surprising is this is the fate that he met, it's just what happened in the recent weeks to get here. avoiding america's first ever default, keeping the government open and operating. >> fireable offense. >> just like -- and this very small portion of his party fired him from his job because of doing responsible governing things. that is -- when you say this is going to take a long time, they, the republican conference has to figure out how to solve for that. because if you can't be -- if you fire people who are taking governing positions as your leaders, you're not going to be a functional majority party. >> so audie, it is absolutely -- when i interviewed congresswoma

from washington state, she made the point it is not the responsibility of the majority party to pick the speaker, and that is 100% true. but speaker mccarthy theoretically could have kept his job if he had made some sort of deal with democrats. i'm sure they would have wanted it in writing based on their feelings about his trustworthiness. but he could have made some sort of deal. they would have wanted some sort of power sharing. obviously, it would have been negotiated. but the idea of that was poison to him, that he would rather lose his job -- we still don't even know if he is going to stay in congress. he would rather go out than even remotely try to work a bipartisan way. remember, the job is speaker of the house. not speaker of the majority. but that's where we are. and the next speaker i'm sure is

going to try to do the same thing. try to run this caucus, this conference, even with these unruly six to eight that make it all but ungovernable, because the idea of even remotely getting into bed with the democrats is so horrifying that they just can't even entertain the notion. >> i think one interesting thing is every few years in washington, i feel like we sort of say farewell to a certain kind of republican. and with kevin mccarthy, it's the young gun, those people who came in 2010. your paul ryans and your eric cantors. and if you're too young to remember those names, then that's part of the problem, but because they didn't make it. they didn't become the next generation of leaders. they became the next generation of ousted leaders. and kevin mccarthy is the final one of that group to effectively get up and say i didn't get the job done. now as that speech gets longer and he tries to massage what his

political legacy and write-up will be, we heard a lot of other ram rambles. we heard about the treaty offer have say. it's a narrative that said look, i tried and did my best. it's going to take a couple of days because who the heck is going to want this job after watching this. >> ementioned wilt chamberlain. i thought he with us going to take a turn into appeasement. but he did not. >> he did not. >> stick around. we're going pick this back up in a second. we have congressman mark alford, a republican of missouri. we spoke earlier before this went down. congressman alford, you voted for kevin mccarthy to remain as speaker. what was your reaction when he lost? and what was your reaction he announced he's not even going toe run again next week when you have your leadership race again? >> jake, back in november of last year, after we won our election in missouri, we came

hyper for orientation. we're about 20 steps away from the house chamber there have been two times that i've shed a tear in these nine months. the first time i stepped on that floor and realized that the voters believed in me enough to send me here, that i was one of 12,000 in history or viewer to be on this house floor, to try to make a difference. and then today when the motion to vacate passed. and they basically fired kevin mccarthy. we huddled with the chaplain of the house and about 15 other members above the speaker's rostrum there and above the flag of the united states of america are four words, "in god we trust." i'm trusting god that he is going raise up the next speaker of the house that is going to be able the fight what kevin has been fighting and successfully do so to try to bring our conference together and get things done for the american people.

>> why is the number two, congressman steve scalise from louisiana, why is it not automatically going to go to him? >> well, this is no rite of passage for anyone. the speaker of the house, the third most powerful person in the united states of america, that seat has to be elected, rightfully and dutifully so by the u.s. constitution. the members of the house. it's not just given to anyone. yes, majority leader scalise has done a lot to bring our conference together. probably one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. he's fighting blood cancer right now and doing so with a valiant heart and great spirit. he survived an assassination attempt. there is no one who is a tougher, harder fighter than steve scalise. that decision is going to be up between him and his wife and his god to figure out if that's the right job, and then we'll go from there. there are a lot of people already making plays. you've probably seen on social

media, reaching out, trying to find where members' hearts and minds are in this next process. >> some of the names we've heard obviously jim jordan, the chairman of the house judiciary committee from ohio. we've heard matt gaetz has raised the names tom cole of oklahoma, tom emmer of minnesota. we've also heard kevin hern, i believe he is from oklahoma talk about rung. what other names have you heard? and is there anybody in particular that you like at this point? >> i like all of them. and that's not just a political answer as i smoke a few cigars with tom cole, a great guy. he says he is not runnings. >> he is not. okay. >> that's what he told us. and i think on another network he made that statement as well. jim jordan, a great guy. when i was coming up here, the people in my district said don't vote for kevin mccarthy. vote for jim jordan. i said well, jim jordan is not rung. he is voting for kevin mccarthy. now that he is running, i think he deserves a close look.

tom emmer, our majority whip is also a great individual, a man of integrity. there are quite a few names. jodey arrington, our budget chair. no one has a better grasp on the budget. that is a singular thing, that and border security, two things we really need to correct in america if we can move forward. >> very interesting. congressman alford, and for the people out there wondering how he is such a great communicator, he was a tv newscaster before a congressman. great preparation i'm told. thank you for joining us. we really appreciate it. let me throw it to my colleague kaitlan collins. >> here with me two of the best political minds on either side of the aisle. hopefully they can answer questions about what we can police department to happen next. paul begala, the 278 day house speaker is over. he likes a bevy of people, who is someone who, a, wants this

job, given they're going to have another funding fight in about 40 days from now. and can actually get the votes. >> i'll give you two answer pretty quickly. one, the circus moves on very quickly. when i worked for majority leader kantor and he lost in his primary, he stayed majority lead for a little while. not long. and then left office before his term was up. because the party and the conference moves on from under you. that's just reality. so it seemed like kevin wasn't going to have a shot there. and now we see there are a lot of people who are interested in it. who actually runs is a much more difficult question. and it's about how much support you can garner. you k you get 30 supporters here, 20 there? and that's when you start to plan how do i get to 218. >> well, they've got to find somebody -- the one thing i'll say kevin mccarthy brought to his conference is he is a great fundraiser. >> yeah. a prolific fundraiser. >> nobody ever accused him of being a big brain on policy, certainly unburdened by fidelity to the truth, but really good fundraiser. they're going to need that even before that, it's got to be

somebody who like paul ryan did cut a deal and came at it with a position of strength. because ryan didn't really want it that badly. the conference felt like they needed paul. >> he didn't want it at all. >> right. this person has got to say if you want me to be your leader, give me the power to lead, by which i mean don't do a kevin. kevin mccarthy was weaker than bus stop chili. because from day one he empowered the most eccentric members of his conference. the next person has got to learn from that and say no, i'm going to lead. you're going to follow. >> even though tonight you heard him in that press conference saying he did not make concession. we saw what happened. >> the truth, i'm sorry. >> we've got a week before they have even an election for the next house speaker. they're all going home. behind us right flow is a pro tem, patrick mchenry who was the deputy whip to john boehner. one of the first moves he has just made as the temporary speaker of the house is filling in is to ask former house speaker nancy pelosi to vacate

her hideaway. it's an office. you don't see many of nose often in the house. there is more on the senate side. obviously she is not here. what do you make of that move? >> mchenry has a good reputation. this goes against that reputation. it's a low-class move. let's just be honest. speaker pelosi is in california to bury one of her best friends, senator dianne feinstein. really, that's the first thing you want to do is disrespect nancy pelosi, who by the way, i'm a democrat, but i've been here a long time. i've worked in this building for the house majority leader when the democrats ran the place years ago. nancy pelosi is the most effective speaker in american history, period. did more, passed more important bills with a smaller majority than anyone in history. kevin mccarthy is now maybe the worst speaker, the least successful speaker in history. so for mr. mchenry to come in as a temporary guy, just filling in. and the first thing he does is disrespect? i just don't think that helps. it doesn't help him politically. it certainly doesn't help him within that building. >> and one of the comments that

mccarthy was making at that very lengthy and exhaustive press conference was saying when he took this job, when that motion to vacate, that one vote was the threshold that he needed to get the votes, he claimed that pelosi essentially argued that she would be able to back him up if he needed it. >> the first thing i want to go to bus stops with paul and see what chili he is eating. >> it's watered down. >> maybe the train station chili is different. it sort of seems an unprovable deal. obviously if we talk to nancy pelosi right now, she would tell us she didn't make a deal with kevin mccarthy. what the truth is there we don't know. but i think we know that's not a position of strength to be in. it ultimately tells us why we are where we are. if you're going into this process saying if i can lose any one vote, i'll be saved by a democrat, you're probably not going to lose by one vote, and you're probably not going to be saved by a democrat. >> i did some dig thonging on t today. most of them said the way kevin mccarthy conducted himself after

january 6th, where at first he criticized mr. trump, and 72 hours later went to mar-a-lago to kiss his ring. but the front lines, the most moderate democrats, the ones who might be most inclined the help kevin mccarthy were absolutely furious with him, and they felt like he broke his word by opening an impeachment investigation when there are no facts to warrant one. so he lost every friend could have had in the democratic party. that's not nancy pelosi's vote. >> mar-a-lago, a lot of silence from the former president today. we'll get to that in a moment, paul begala, doug hyde. thanks to you both. >> i'm joined by democratic congressman eric swalwell, seats on the house intelligence committee by kevin mccarthy by taking lead roles in the impeachment of the former president. congressman, i appreciate you being with us. what is your reaction to kevin mccarthy's decision not to run for speaker? >> well, it's the right decision because he's brought chaos to the country. it's the first time in nine

months, anderson, where i've seen him put the country in front of his own job. but just stepping back and thinking what do my constituents think of this, they think it's tragic. they look at the failures that maga gop has put upon us, and they see this bucket of crabs that keeps trying to pull the rest of the country down into the chaos that they crave. and they see that although republicans are the majority party in the house, they're working as an opposition party. they're opposed within themselves and they're opposed to just getting things done. and so when i think of what do we have to do next as democrats? we have to keep showing competence, keep showing community and contrast it with chaos on their side. and think of the country, by the way, anderson, as a corvette, a cadillac, a luxury car. and you don't give the keys to a luxury car to people who are going to crash it. and so this is the reason they can never be given the keys again when we go to the polls for governing, because they're going to continue to crash. >> so the house is not reconvening until next week.

so nothing gets done until then? >> well, you know, that's going to be a real issue, because we have to fund the government, as these geniuses are unable to put up a bill that took us to the next 45 days. so paychecks for troops and cops and border agents are all at risk. so they need to get their act together and get back to work. and if they're going to be an opposition party, i hope that maybe some moderates would look at, well, how do you join a team jeffreys and help speaker jefjeff zients jeffries? how do you join a team that gets something done for the best of the country? >> can you talk about deliberations among your democratic colleagues about this decision not to throw a lifeline to kevin mccarthy? >> i with us in the room today, anderson, and what i saw was a party that was united, that believed that our diversities are is our strength but our unity is our power, as our former speaker said.

but also a party that saw kevin mccarthy on sunday go on another network and say that democrats caused the shutdown. and if you were a democrat that took, you know, that vote to keep government open and you're a tough district, and kevin mccarthy thinks that he is going to rely on you to save him, forget it. he just threw them under the bus. and he showed himself to be who he has been this whole time, which is somebody that neither side clearly is able to trust. >> so who do you think can actually win as speaker? >> look, there is a lot of republicans who have been responsible, who have -- i think governed for the best of the country. it's their decision. you're going to see unity again on this speaker vote. we're going to say speaker jeffries. and again, i don't think it's too crazy of an idea that reasonable republicans hopefully would want to work for the sake of competence and community over chaos. so we'll stand ready to be united for the sake of the country and hopefully that's greater than those who want to wreak havoc. >> congressman swalwell, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. >> joining me scott

also cnn political commentate ovr alyssa farah griffin. and former congressman adam kinzinger. congressman dent, you know the house well, you served in the house with kevin mccarthy. what did you make of this mishegas? >> surrendering your way to victory is not winning. which is what happened when he got the speaker's gavel. he gave in to these guys on the motion to vacate, just one person -- >> he dug his own grave. >> he dug his grave. he put three of them on the rules committee, two on the appropriations committee. he just opened up an impeachment inquiry -- >> did he have any other choice, though, at the time? if he wanted power. >> yes. i mean, i've said all along, maybe you have to go and talk to some democrats to help you elect a speaker. and maybe start doing some power sharing arrangements. i mean, i know some people think that's crazy. you about given where we are now -- >> scott jennings over there for one does. >> they did it in texas, they did it in some other states. they had to do this. because if you have a group of rejectionists like they do who

don't have an affirmative sense of governance, as kevin said himself, they want to blow the place up, you need 218 votes. he just doesn't have it. so he's got to get them from the democrats, whether it's on the debt ceiling, whether it's on the continuing resolution, disaster assistance -- >> so scott, what's wrong with that? >> i agree with you when you have a group of people who don't exist within your party as i afunctional matter you've got real problems. the reality is democrats understand that politics is a team sport and republicans just don't right now. and you've got essentially coalition government in the house right now. you've got 210 republicans, 213 democrats, you know, a handful of may caucus with whoever, and nancy mace is on a different -- she's on earth two. i don't know where she fits in. your idea is interesting because it's exactly what matt gaetz did today. he joined with the democrats and his faction to kick out the speaker. so as long as you have that group roving around under the

current rules, whoever gets this, scalise, emmer, whoever, you cannot take this job with the current rules because you'll be right back in the soup that kevin mccarthy was in today if you don't acquiesce to every demand. and let me say one more thing. the demand is going to be, i bet, nothing for ukraine. so where i think the democrats messed up today is that the next republican speaker will have to make that promise. nothing for ukraine. >> in order to get -- >> in order to get that -- in order to get the republican votes. and if you make that promise, if i were zelenskyy tonight, i would be fearful of where this leads because you have strength in that position. >> congressman kinzinger, you've been a vocal critic of kevin mccarthy, your former colleague. do you think that's true, that any future to get the next speakership they're going to have to say no ukraine aid? >> yeah, maybe so. but here's the deal. here's the deal. they've got to start playing the game that matt gaetz played. i mean, everybody chuckled when

charlie talked about a coalition speakership. it's not funny. it actually could work. it's actually the one way we could actually fix this institution. you know, for matt gaetz to get eight people and to destroy the institution, to think that there could be eight people now in the gop that support ukraine, for instance, that say we are absolutely not going to vote for, come hell or high water, anybody that promises no money for ukraine, that's how you actually fight back. the problem is you end up seeing all these people, though, that instead of -- i mean, charlie and i know these folks. we were these folks. we want to get along as a republican party. we want peace. we want things to work. they're going to have to start playing hardball because i agree that the ukraine thing could be the deal. that would be devastating. not for ukraine, for america's reputation around the world, for taiwan, and for china being emboldened. we need eight to ten people to do that. >> but will republican members of congress be willing to risk being attacked by, you know,

folks in their districts for aligning themselves with democrats to get things done? >> well, i don't know because i saw a lot of people that were unwilling to vote to impeach an obvious corrupt president of the united states. but they need to. and i don't think people are going to lose their job because they're fighting for aid for ukraine. i mean, keep in mind, people still generally support aid for ukraine. you've got to quit letting the legislative terrorists run the caucus. and until you play their game they're going to continue to be legislative terrorists and they're going to continue to win. >> sorry. >> 18 republicans won in districts that joe biden carried. so if you're someone like a don bacon, a ryan fitzpatrick, a mike lawler in new york, it's worth considering. i find it extremely hard to see sort of -- in your era, i think the 2015 period there could have been sort of a coalition-type government with democrats. but the incentive structures on the right are so loud, they're so harsh and you will be so destroyed if you choose to side

with democrats on any major issue. like the right-wing media echo chamber's always been there, but it's not as powerful -- it wasn't as powerful in the pretrump era as it is now. so i think even though you may be in a swing district and it may be in your interest to try to be a pro governing candidate,'ll have so much money spent against you, you'll have your name dragged through the mud and it's kind of a death sentence to staying a republican. >> was it the wise move for democrats in the house not to help out mccarthy? >> oh, it was certainly the wise move because -- o'. >> you're gloating over there. >> no, no gloating. >> a little bit of gloating. >> there's a little bit. but when your opponents are in the business of tying ropes around themselves and throwing themselves off of, you know, buildings, why get in the way? let it happen. i was sitting there watching former speaker mccarthy's -- former speaker mccarthy's press conference and i just kept thinking about michael jordan's hall of fame speech from a few years ago. he just went after everybody throughout his entire life who ever did him wrong. and it seemed like mckarth i why

was circling around to the same thing. i can remember a few years ago when i lost a job i really wanted to get in washington. and a friend said you can spend all your time in this town pursuing important jobs or you can try to do important things. and i think the speaker of the house, the former speaker mccarthy, spent all his time pursuing this job and he didn't really do anything important when he got the job. and that's a thing i hope he -- i don't know if he's wrestling with this. is did he actually take advantage of the historic opportunity that he had? and i just don't see that he did that, that he actually got anything done. >> can i rebut that? because i think the judgment of whether he was doing a good job is in a lot of the polling that has come out about republicans in congress since he became speaker. our own poll, cnn in august, who do you trust to deal with the major issues facing the country? republicans in congress, 54%. joe biden, 45%. so i'll tell you who thinks he was doing a good job. the people that we surveyed just back in august. i think the republicans are throwing out probably the most popular republican leader in the

capitol. and that's what's crazy. the last thing he did -- you said he didn't do anything important. the last thing he did was keep the government open in a bipartisan fashion. i would submit that the troops probably thought that was important because now they'll keep getting paid. so he did the responsible thing. and now he's out on his ass over it. do you think that's not important? >> of course that's a good thing. but that was a bipartisan thing. if i'm a conservative i'm sitting here looking at this and wondering, contract with america. you can say what you want to say about it but it tried to go after big important policy initiatives. right? i'm not sure the republican party today is really pursuing any of those big important policy initiatives. it's a lot about fear of the other. it's a lot about retrenchment from global leadership and then fealty to donald trump. other than that i don't know what the republican party stands for. >> cut taxes, cut spending, secure the border. that's it. >> oh, that's actually going to help -- that's going to help women who are trying to feed their kids do well. that's going to help the kids who are coming back from covid who have learning loss, it's going to help them recover -- >> you need functionality in the

house. you need functionality in the house. this has been going on for years, since the tea party wave. when you have a very small group, the small tail wants to wag the larger dog. we were just talking about ukraine funding. well, there's a strong bipartisan majority in both chambers for ukraine funding. how can this small group dictate the policy? we have votes for a reason. put it to a vote. ukraine's going to get funded. but how can this group dictate to the republican majority that frankly wants to fund ukraine, why would they be giving it away? >> congressman kinzinger, what happens now? who can do this? what about jim jordan? >> well, please god, no. but you know, who knows? if it forces him to wear a suit jacket, maybe. look, i actually think the dark horse in this is patrick mchenry. i've always been saying that i think he's the kind of guy that, you know, the right likes him, the so-called moderates if they're left like him. and he's actually very honorable. he'll tell you the truth. you don't have to worry about him telling you something he's going to turn his back on.

he reminds me actually a little bit of boehner in that. so i think he's a real possibility. of course emmer's out there. of course scalise should be in the catbird's seat. i just don't know if he has, given everything he's battling right now, the ability to run for this or the desire. >> alyssa. >> i was going to say listen, i actually agree with scott that i think there's a number of things mccarthy can point to as sort of his victories in his short time in office. but reality is this. history is not going to remember him for those things. they're going to remember him as one of the shortest speakers, someone who normalized crazy like marjorie taylor greene and brought into the fold, someone who handed over security tapes from january 6th to a cable news host to spread lies. somebody who ousted -- before speaker but as leader liz cheney from her leadership post. that is the defining mechanisms around kevin mccarthy because everything was in pursuit of becoming speaker, not for the betterment of the conference frankly or the country. >> we're going to pick up the conversation again shortly. right now for viewers who might be just joining us we're talking about a day unlike any in washington since 1910. that's the las