>> whether it's a former president being issued a gag order one of his house have doesn't trials, or a house

speaker fired, it has been a day for the history books. >> indeed. -- kevin mccarthy's old job will no longer no doubt -- >> safe to say, jake and anderson, of course, the news continues tonight. our special coverage here certainly does. joining me now, abby phillip and laura coates. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, everyone, i am abby phillip alongside my colleagues laura coates and kaitlan collins. this is a special edition of "cnn primetime" for an unprecedented moment in the history of the united states. the headline tonight -- the american government is broken. the tyranny of a minority is now paralyzing this countries institutions. depending on where you might

stand politically, it could be for better or worse, in your view, but right now, here is where we are -- there is currently no speaker of the house and, after narrowly avoiding a shutdown, the government is set to run out of money in less than 45 days. and houses now leaving for a week. now, all of this is because, for the very first time ever, republicans have successfully out today six setting setting speaker. and full of hard-liners complain that kevin mccarthy did not do enough to curb spending, even though the party did not seem too concerned about that during the trump era, when the nation's debt skyrocketed. the tensions played out in private in these angry meetings, and then on the floor around the vote today. >> we need a speaker, ideally somebody who does not want to be speaker, and has not pursue that at all costs for his entire adult life. >> i am very proud of the speaker. i am very proud to stand behind him. >> a red line was crossed for

me, i regret, on saturday. and so it's regret that i must vote against the motion to table, as i did, and vote to vacate the chair. >> kevin mccarthy has earned this. chaos is speaker mccarthy. chaos is somebody who we cannot trust with their world word. >> he has kept his word. i think we should keep him as speaker. >> i think it is time to make a change. -- not the only one -- >> everyone who knows kevin mccarthy, whether they are friend or foe, knows that kevin mccarthy is a happy warrior. >> i will just say, if this house of representatives has exceeded all expectations, and we definitely need direct a shuns. >> the office of speaker of the house of the united states house of representatives is hereby declared vacant. >> tonight the big news? mccarthy told his party he will not run for the speakership

again. >> i will never give up on the american people. that doesn't mean i have to be speaker to do what i have to do for the american people. >> but at this point, the question really is, who would even want this job? >> -- the speakership. >> absolutely not. i have no desire -- >> laura coates, matt gaetz there, seemingly and unwittingly admitting that everyone likes to throw bombs, but leading, ultimately, is hard. >> yeah, and he has no intention of actually trying to get that gavel, he just did not want kevin mccarthy together, as you know. joining me now, abby, is republican congressman bob good of virginia. is one of the eight republicans who voted to remove kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house. thank you for being here. and congressman, what a day. >> indeed, it was. and quite frankly a -- for the american people, because this was a blow against

the status quo, a blow against the establishment swamp, the d.c. swamp cartel. there's a reason why congress has at 20% approval rating at 80% of americans are we are on the wrong track, both parties have contributed to that, and while it is the democrat parties that are in place that are destroying the country, that are crushing regular americans with high interest rates and inflation and grocery prices and -- an open border, but republicans have also contributed in terms of not making real change, not fighting when we have the house majority, and so this was a blow against that status quo, and i fight for change, with most americans wanting congress. >> it's interesting. you mentioned the status quo as the perspective that you bring here. but for many of the american people, they are looking at congress more broadly as dysfunctional. you have now voted to our speaker mccarthy. there is no succession plan in place. and so for all the things you have just named, this has really been a paralyzing moment. nothing can get done in the same way you are talking about. why has there been no

succession plan? was that not contemplated? >> i would reject that there was no succession plan. because what you typically have when you are choosing a speaker is you've got the presumptive speaker, the party candidate that everyone has the support. everyone is afraid to raise their hand and say they are candidate because of retaliation or consequence, because they get support, the presumptive one, most members of congress just vote for whoever the party says to. tell me when there was an upset vote for speaker. when has that happened in the history of modern times? now we will have a contest. we will have a competition where all members are equal in terms of their opportunities to throw their had in a ring. we will have a candidate for mom tuesday night. between now and then we will that candidates, meet with candidates, talk with him. they will try to build coalitions of support and we are a talented group of individuals. and some of them will rise and -- get to 218, because we have to, quite frankly. and sometimes people will say, well, congress is not getting things done. tell me what you are getting -- i don't care who does the surgery, i don't care what they

do. just get something done, do something. most of what we are doing or has been doing historically has been hurting the american people. the american people are suffering. they don't feel like washington is working for them. we've got 33 children and national debt. we've got an open border. we've got a depleted military. we've got an american weekend on the national stage and a -- congress i would note has low approval ratings. we want to try to get it right. we want to get a ride with the best speaker that we can put forward and that will help lead the change the american people voted for when they give 1000 majority battle in last november. >> and yet, when i look at the calendar, and you mentioned that this will not take place until next week, an actual vote, you will be without a leader for a week. mccarthy is not running again. it takes 218 votes, as you said. who can actually get to these votes to try to drive home the point that you are making? i know that gaetz keeps pointed to congressman steve scalise. but he does not seem to want that job and of course it did take 15 rounds, despite what you say was kind of a foregone conclusion. it took 15 rounds for mccarthy

to even get. so, who do you not support? >> it only took 15 rounds because we broke history ended something that had not happened in 160 years, when members of congress back in january voted against the presumptive, later their presumptive speaker that had not happen in 60 years, and that put changes in place on how congress would operate. we return to regular order, where members in the minority party and the majority party have had input, amendments, working through committee, minimum at a time to read bill 's and ability to make amendments from the floor, as i noted. that has made congress stronger and, frankly, we have restore the ability to remove the speaker if he was not living up to the obligation and commitment that he made to become speaker. so, that is how our constitutional republic is supposed to work. that is how a legislative body is supposed to work. and we have restored that in congress and -- >> congressman, i don't want to cut you off. i know you -- as you mentioned, but right now, whoever the candidate will be, if you are talking about just say the attractiveness of a particular job you have got

this now motion to vacate option that is there. certainly, pelosi did not have it. but has been and play for quite sometime. will you demand that, whoever it is, who stepped up to the plate, hoping to become the next speaker, do you demand that they also operate at the same motion to vacate option? >> absolutely. it was in place for 200 years until nancy pelosi changed. it was good for thomas jefferson. it should be good for our speaker today. a strong, secure, constantly to recognize that he or she serves at the pleasure of those who elect him. and the good thing is, we all started from an equal footing, trying to earn the support of 218, we will have a vested interest into that -- and i said on the house floor, after he was elected back in january, but because we all had voted in this person, and we are committed as a conference to coming together and finding that best person who can get to 218 votes. >> just this past saturday, a can was kicked down the road in terms of a government shutdown. 45 days away is now the next opportunity. you cut into that, a week of time now, when somebody is no

longer going to be the speaker of the house. are you not concerned that there will not be enough time to steer the government in the right direction and try to follow through with what you are objectives are? >> i appreciate you making that point about last saturday. last saturday was a failure. congress fell back, under speaker mccarthy, what we have been doing -- our appropriations bills. that's how you get a 33 trillion dollars in debt, a trillion dollars in year and interest on the, debt directory to get a 50 trillion dollars of debt in the years, unsustainable, bankrupting our kids and our grandkids and policies destroying the country. our commitment was to change that. and the speaker did not join us in changing that. and when he failed and reverted back to the status quo in the past, we removed him as speaker, and that's a win for the american people. >> some would look at this as not a win in the sense of bipartisan was what was in part achieved. i understand the point that you are raising wholeheartedly. but if a failure is keeping the government open, i wonder how some would define success. let me ask you this about what

congressman matt gaetz had to say. because he has been, as you probably heard by now, fundraising off of what took place earlier today, in a motion to vacate. do you think that is appropriate? >> all members fund-raise all the time. you are in a two-year election cycle and it takes millions of dollars to get to congress, it takes millions of dollars to stay in congress. don't think that the swamp won't strike back, the umpire won't strike back, and those who are willing to stand up and be counted and fight for the american people instead of fighting for the donor class and the lobbyist and case treated wall street. they are fighting for the american people. don't you think they're going to have a target on their back? so, why would they let the american people know that the they stand with them and if the american people stand with them they -- >> do you feel you have a target on your back, obviously, figuratively speaking here, given your vote against speaker mccarthy? because as you can imagine there is a select few number of congressman. and when compared to, those, of course, who voted to keep him in power on the republican side, do you feel that you are now vulnerable based on your choice?

>> i just will tell you this. that back in january and again today, you had members of congress make history by being willing to risk their own personal careers, their own personal ambitions in terms of what was safe and secure, just through the status quo and to do what they believe was right, irrespective of the costs. we need more courage in washington. and we need more people willing to do that. >> are you going to put your name into the ring? >> right now i am only 217 votes away from getting to 218, so, if your endorsement will help me get there, if you wanted to go ahead and give that to me tonight. >> we are not doing that this evening. congressman bob good, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> -- the chapters of mccarthy's political career perfectly explained, the republican parties rollercoaster ride over the past decade. at first, mccarthy was thought to be the future of the party, a new generation of fiscally conservative lawmakers. but as you can see there, the three of the young guns on this

book cover all long gone. paul ryan, who is also the house speaker, had trouble corral-ing the -- second chapter of mccarthy's career begins with an escalator. he hitched his wagon to the trump train and he became an ally through the impeachments and through the election lies and all of it. and then next there was mccarthy's pilgrimage to mar-a-lago for a photo op, not long after the insurrection that he blamed trump for despite those lies that led to the attack in the workplace. and the final chapter, this picture, from back in january, that is mccarthy and matt gaetz, face to face, on the floor, before mccarthy eventually agreed to neuter his own power just so that he could become speaker after 15 rounds. >> how do you expect to govern this way, that it has been taking this long to -- >> see, this is the great point. because it took this long, now we -- govern. so, now we will be able to get the job done.

>> fast forward to right now. the epilogue of the republican young guns is playing out before our eyes. and joining me now to discuss all of this is andrew yang, former 2020 presidential candidate and author of the last election, along with cnn political analyst coleman hughes, host of the conversation podcast, and also commentator s. e. cupp and jamal simmons, former communications director for kamala harris, and also a cnn commentator. jamal, basically -- you really could argue that this was years in the making. >> it was used in the making. establishment republican party has done a deal with the sort of antiestablishment rogue forces, where anger is really the testament of how you are true. we talk about people being

moderate. but they are not moderate in the sense that we may think of it of, oh, they have positions close to the. center they're just not yelling and screaming all the time when trying to overturn the system. and so i think what kevin mccarthy has done a sort of proven that it is sometimes better to think about doing important things than it is to think about just doing an important job. he has had a job. but he did not actually get very much done when he had the job. and i think -- i imagine that there will come a moment from him in the dark of night, a little bit away from now, where he thinks, i probably should have done a little bit more. >> i doubt it. >> -- a lot of self-refraction self-reflection. i -- came up with the young guns. kevin mccarthy always wanted to be speaker. obviously, his ambition await his dignity, apparently, because he made this deal with mack matt gaetz, and other troublemakers, to essentially sign his own death certificate, whenever they wanted. and so he is leaving the way he came in. really --

with matt gaetz holding his faith in his hands. don't be surprised if you lose them the way you get them. >> it's so funny. because he actually talked a lot about, first of all, this job being such a thing for him, from since he was a child, and how he did not get a job as an intern, but then he got a job as a speaker, to your point. very important to him. it was brought up on the floor today. >> yes. >> i want to play this, for mccarthy, we are -- he had plenty of blame for the conservatives, of course, in his conference, but also on the democrats. take a listen. >> i think today was a political decision by the democrats. i think the things they have done in the past her the institution. they just started moving people from committee. they just started the other things. my fear is the institution fell to them. because you can't do the job if

you are eight people. you have 94%, or 96% of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side. how do you govern? >> i am honestly trying to understand that. because he was the one who agreed to that rule that gave 3%, 6%, whatever percentages of the conference, all of this power. >> yeah. there is no way around the fact that this is a huge win for matt gaetz. this is just this -- if you think about this from the perspective of whoever the next speaker is, they have to be thinking, is i really have to take this matt gaetz seriously. because he is really willing to blow it all up. it gives him a lot more leverage. and it ends up in some strange way being an own goal for the democrats. like corona, mccarthy, he was not the worst a speaker could get. he was not the most radical you could get, right? it could be the case that we

get replaced someone, somebody we're, somebody that is more friendly to the matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene's -- >> and more calm potent -- competent -- >> -- >> -- some kind of brokered deal, power sharing agreement and -- couple dozen democrats refrain from voting or say, hey, we will actually keep you from getting ousted. democrats, at this point, are the party of good government and this is just bad for the country, to have a leaderless, riderless house when you are 45 days away from defaulting on the national -- >> do you think there is any truth to the criticism that -- mccarthy makes it -- that democrats should have, for the good of the institution, stepped in here? >> i think there was a deal to be had. >> but isn't -- >> it is on kevin mccarthy, where he would have to do something. it's also true that his conference would turn on him if he said, hey, guys, the democrats are going to bail me out.

but this would have been good for the country. the fact that you have a different coalition coming together and making sure you have a speaker of the house. what we have is instead chaos. it's terrible for the country. anyone who -- is lying, because this has never happened before. you know what? among the house republican caucus knows who the next leader is going to be. they are having this conversation right now. and who wants this job? to your point, they have to make it so the next speaker cannot have a motion to vacate with one, two, three, votes. it has to be double digits or higher to have any kind of security. but can they get that kind of concession for the hard-liners? >> i will tell you what they are doing immediately one of the pro tem's official acts -- nancy pelosi and tell her to vacate her office and matt gaetz is already criticizing the pro tem speaker. so, it's going great, guys. >> -- middle fingers to the other side on the -- >> but you know what is honestly -- correct me if i am, wrong s. e.,

not what mchenry is known for his being a flame thrower. >> no. people think he's very a sober middle of the road guy. but he has been thrust into this -- >> but to the question that andrew just asked, who would want this job? one republican, troy nehls of texas said, well, you don't have to be a member to be a speaker. let's call him donald trump. i have seen that. i think hannity was -- >> so was dawn don jr. -- >> -- >> -- here you have a guy who helped launch the january 6th insurrection against the house of representatives, and people who were deaf a casing inside the congress, the congressional building, who could possibly be the speaker and in charge of the capital police, who were injured in the january 6th insurrection. this is peak republican silliness. >> it says, a lot, though,

about trump's a shadow looming over this chamber right now, no matter what, which way you look at it. >> yeah. if trump were gone, the entire republican party would change overnight. the shadow that he cast over the whole party, they are just so few people willing for any reason what so ever, to say they are not loyal to him. you see what happens to chris christie. you see what happens to any republican that even hints at this loyalty to donald trump. he is still the elephant in the room for republicans. and that -- it's a fundamental character trait of the party now. >> that's what i would like to double down on is, there is the sense that after trump recedes from the scene, republicans will somehow snap back to their senses. it's not happening. this party has become beholden to its base, and the base likes it. the base is now running the asylum. and that is not going to reverse itself. >> yeah, and look. trump may have created some of these characters, but they are here now. and they are doing their own

work with or without him. thanks everyone. standby for us. kaitlan? but >> i think the idea of trump becoming house speaker is a bit of a fever dream from some republicans. but who knows? there are a lot of options on the table. -- cnn capitol hill reporter melanie zanona, and leigh ann caldwell, reporter for the washington post. -- not going to happen, by that is kind of hard to overstate the level of chaos knowing what is happening in that building behind us, and what today means when you step back and look at the fact that kevin mccarthy, after 269 days is no longer house speaker and they have no clue tonight who is going to be next. >> yeah. it is entirely shocking and stunning. and yet it's also completely inevitable. when you talk to republicans after that 15 rounds of speaker votes that kevin mccarthy had to go through, they say, this is not going to be good for kevin mccarthy. the fact that he empowered those members to be able to call for a vote to oust him, a

single member to be able to oust him, people warned him against that. members of his own leadership team said this is not a good idea. this is going to be a threat that hangs over your head and, he fought for months to try to keep this rebellion at bay. but the chickens finally came home to roost today for kevin mccarthy. and that is the reality that they are now dealing with. but i will tell you, even though it has only been a few hours, we are already hearing that there are members who are scrambling to shore up support to run to replace government dorothy. steve scalise, the number two republican, is already making calls. he's -- and jim jordan i entertaining a potential speakers bid. so, there are some moves being made behind the scene, but the big picture is who can get to 218? who can corral that same conference that was responsible for taking out kevin mccarthy? and that person is going to be taking on the same challenges that kevin mccarthy did. >> -- whoever is going to get that job if someone next we can actually get that job, they are facing, i mean, today we are 40 days away from the government running out of money again

after they just passed that short-term bill. they are going to be taking those same exact hurdles. >> yeah, absolutely. and when kevin mccarthy was asked tonight what he would recommend to his successor, he actually said, change the house rules. we don't know if that is going to be definitely on the table yet or not. but it gets back to the challenges, the institutional challenges that kevin mccarthy and others thought were essential to the problem here. it also sets up a problem that there is a right flank of the party who has no interest, really, in funding the government or passing short term government spending bills. they want to do it at levels that could never pass a democratic-controlled senate, that could never get signed by a democratic president. and so there is a level of lack of real-ism here. and so, if someone else can do it better than kevin mccarthy that is a very high bar. we will see if someone is elected if they are able to do so. and is it because it is less of a personality conflict?

or if it's actually really a policy conflict? >> yeah. and when we had tennessee republican congressman timber checked on here earlier, i asked if he favored keeping that motion too -- and he seemed to vote lean toward -- accountability. i guess we saw their version of that today. do you expect, melanie zanona that -- could be? >> listen, if they are going to try to change the motion to vacate they are going to need democratic votes to do that. that was -- talking about saying, depending on today's vote goes maybe we need to revisit this issue. but you heard bob good talking earlier on our air. he said it, yes. any candidate that the speaker and going to get my vote is going to have to make the same commitments that kevin mccarthy did. so, it is not clear who is going to be able to lead this caucus in conference better than kevin mccarthy did or any easier than he did. but, i think to leigh ann caldwell's point, there was personal differences between, especially, matt gaetz and

kevin mccarthy. they just did not trust kevin mccarthy. he's made a lot of -- nancy mace, for example, i think she was a surprising vote in some ways. but she he had been saying he -- >> that's really where the issue is. >> and she has been saying that pretty publicly. he was harshly critical of her. what do the next seven days look like in the building behind us? does anyone know? >> they actually left town until next tuesday. so, they are not even going to be here. but what is going to be happening is you have already had different factions of the party starting to meet. there are some groups who met tonight. there are some groups who are meeting tomorrow. and these ideologically similar factions are going to be talking about who they want their next speaker to be. we will see if they are going to be able, if these different parts can come together to find a consensus candidate. there are five or six names that are being floated out there, as melanie zanona he said. some of these names are already starting to make news, to do it. but it is going to be a real

back channeling discussion and we'll fight over who is going to be the next speaker of the house. because they are going to have their first gathering as an entire conference next tuesday. >> -- that decision. >> -- an explosion and an already deeply fractious conference. we will see what that looks like. leigh ann caldwell and melanie zanona, great reporting today by both of you. thank you for joining me. abby, it's going to be an exciting week for capitol hill reporter. maybe exciting is not the right word. >> yeah. look, eight more days and seven more days, and nobody in congress really doing any more work -- than sorting themselves out -- the american people have -- thanks, kaitlan -- it seems kevin mccarthy is blaming democrats were losing his speakership. i will ask one of those democrats, congresswoman ilhan omar what he thinks of the end of mccarthy stint as speaker. >> pursuant to clause 12 a of rule one, the chair declares the house in recess object to

the call of the chair.

>> more on this historic news tonight. the house, for the very first time ever, removing speaker kevin mccarthy. so, what comes next for the people's house? and joining me now to discuss this is democratic congresswoman ilhan omar. congresswoman omar, thank you for joining us. >> it's great to be with you. >> earlier tonight, the now

former speaker kevin mccarthy -- he essentially blamed democrats for why he no longer has his job. he says that it was a political decision for democrats to side, essentially, with matt gaetz today, to vote him out of the speakership, and that he seemed to say that that was sort of a wrong decision for democrats to make because you all voted to keep the government open this weekend. what is your response to that? >> mccarthy can blame math. matt gaetz. he can blame democrats. but at the end of the day, he needs to blame themself. when he was first elected speaker, the rule he agreed to end the deals that he made is ultimately what destroyed his speakership. he decided to say yes to one person, bringing a motion to vacate the chair. he said yes to so many backroom

deals that ultimately made his conference feel like he was a liar. and he made deals with democrats that he refused to fulfill, which made it hard for any single democrat to believe in the fact that he was somebody that we could continue to work with. >> more democrats and republicans provided the votes as we can to keep the government open. and your colleague, congressman jim clyburn, said that when mccarthy showed up on the sunday shows the next day, blamed democrats for taking the country to the brink, that factored in. what was the reaction in your caucus meeting to mccarthy's comments over the weekend? >> yeah. i remember most of us watching it this weekend, just dumbfounded by the idea of this man, who literally needed more democratic votes to pass his own continued resolution that he himself as speaker brought

to the floor and could not provide his own conferences votes to help pass it was on tv, talking about how democrats want to shut down, how democrats were obstructing, when he only gave us about five minutes to be able to read this continued resolution that he was expecting us to vote for. people really got a sense of the fact that this is a man who cannot be trusted. this is not somebody you negotiate with. this is not somebody that you can save. and they ultimately understood that leader hakeem jeffries has been freelancing as the speaker, because it was him that helped make sure that we fixed the battle around the debt ceiling. it was him that made sure we put up the votes to stop the country from shutting down. it was him that has been leading the house floor in trying to provide critical and

crucial votes to pass anything of substance. and so, we were unified in saying, we, as democrats, are going to have the back of the leader, and that we have, within our caucus that continuously shows up and leads the way, and we are not going to save a man who has created a mess for himself. it was going to be up to his congress conference and himself to figure out how to get them out of the chaos they created. >> are you concerned that this process now, being back opened, would usher in a new speaker who might be even less palatable to democrats than mccarthy was? >> that is what their worries should be. this is, again, the mess that they created by agreeing to these rules passing them, and allowing for so many within the conference to be emboldened to

take the speaker out. for democrats, we know that we have not had speaker mccarthy be someone whose word we can trust. as you know, there was negotiations with president biden. there was negotiations with chuck schumer. there were negotiations with leader jeffries. all those promises and negotiations, mccarthy reneged on. and so, for us, it is about keeping the integrity of the house. it is about remembering that, when you are an elected official, your word is all you've got. people have to be able to trust what you say is what you will do. and we do not have that kind of partner and a leader that we can -- in that kind of way, within speaker mccarthy. and now he no longer is the speaker. he happens to continuously make

history and all the wrong ways. we look forward to seeing who they end up choosing, and we will make our decision going forward. >> cnn is reporting tonight also that republicans who are on this bipartisan problem solvers caucus, they are threatening to quipped the group en masse because they are angry with -- their democratic colleagues on that problem solvers caucus who did not bail mccarthy out today. what is your reaction to that? >> i don't know what problem they expected to solve. i am not part of the problem solvers caucus. and to me, it looks like they were expecting democrats to solve the problem that they created for themselves within their conferences. and i think that is not a reasonable expectation, if we were having internal issues within our colic's caucus, i don't think a single democrat would blame republicans for not

helping solve that problem. and so, it's just tradition that you figure out how to run your own house. in this case, you run your own caucus. you won your own conference. and the majority usually is the one that decides who the speaker of the house will be. and this majority has failed in that. this majority has failed in governing. and this majority has failed in sending a speaker that the people can trust. >> all right, congresswoman ilhan omar, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> joining me now shermichael singleton, karen finney, former congresswoman barbara comstock, and sophia nelson, house gop -- we've all been chomping at the bit tonight, reacting to everything. -- in how we've been reacting to every single interview. it's intense because it's a very intense moment. none of us have seen anything really like this before.

and here we are, barbara, in particular, look, republicans look very dysfunctional right now and they are being viewed as if they are punishing mccarthy for bipartisanship this past saturday. how are you reacting to all this? >> this was a maga civil war. so, i think once kevin made a deal with matt, this was bound to happen. today you saw maga at its worst and you look at the biden harris twitter feed, it's all filled with little ads they meet with megunticook republican party day. matt gaetz and nancy mace, and all these guys who were attacking republicans today, they provided great fodder for democrats. so, joe biden is the winner today. but maga also showed how they are not fit to govern while, at the same time, donald trump was in his trial today, they were attacking some poor little clerk showing mcgahn is unfit to be in the judicial branch.

so, the only place magoffin doing a horrible job is, micah is not in the >> i'm going to take it one step further and -- republican -- this is the message, the republican culture of dysfunction and chaos. it starts at the top with trump and it goes -- i mean, just look at what we have seen. we literally have people going home, and we have people -- know speaker of the house -- >> -- saying that. because, look, what job most people have where you can say, all right, nothing is going right. everything is going -- >> congress -- >> -- >> you know what? i just had the whole weekend off, but then -- you know what? i'm not feeling like doing the job. so, i'm going to go away for another week. no. nobody, except for republican members of congress, apparently, think that this is a good idea. here is the other thing. we are talking about all this blame on democrats.

and poor nancy pelosi is getting attacked. kevin mccarthy is blaming her. she is in california to attend a funeral, by the way. of senator diane feinstein -- >> senator feinstein, her very dear friend. and if you keep thinking about it -- you know what? eight republicans could have joined democrats and made hakeem -- jeffries >> -- they would not do that. come on, they -- democrats -- they can could have voted present. they could have not shown up. -- solve the politics in this and i understand why. if i were democrat, i would have done the same thing. because it makes the republicans -- >> -- to understand, by voting president, it would have lower the threshold -- >> yes, absolutely! >> yeah, but laura -- >> -- lower the threshold, making it almost impossible for matt gaetz and seven others to be

victorious and vacating the speaker. democrats had that option -- >> but it is not the democrats job -- karen finney, it is not the democrat's job to keep republicans from killing other republicans. it is -- to take our responsibility seriously. >> i understand that. what i'm saying, politically, they could have. -- the message is going to be, republicans are chaotic. the cannot govern. that is a palatable message -- >> -- >> did not do that -- >> so, so -- >> look, everyone. i said chomping at the bit. we've got to talk one at the time -- there is a -- losing their minds. not me. >> -- we have 18 republicans who are not in districts -- quite a few of them are likely not going to win next year. you have matt gates who, for the most part, is more than likely going to maintain this position for whomever --

states gillies, who, i think it will become. in order to change the rules, you are going to have to -- too late in the process and the -- so more than likely you are going to have the same issue in the next 45 days if they don't get what they want. >> what is your thought, congressman? >> -- in order to change the rule so that one person can't call to vacate the speaker, democrats would have to -- >> -- they said that they would do that. and i think you have a lot of these moderates who aren't ma maga -- they've been calling these guides the knuckleheads that they are. and it's very frustrating for them. because they are the people who are governing. a lot of the people that you saw today, the bob goods, the matt gaetz's, these are people who don't pass bills. these are people who don't want to -- these are the people who support donald trump, the eight trillion-dollar budget buster guys. so, they are all their whining about the budget. they are the ones who want donald trump back in their, who

does not want to cut any budgets. so, they are full of it. and they are all jokers who don't know how to work with anybody. you would not want them -- you don't want them in congress. you wouldn't want them to your children. you -- >> but laura, the question is -- >> they need adult supervision, and they don't know how to run anything. >> sophia nelson, just to this point -- there are calls now for speaker matt gaetz to -- in a majority of the -- here is the question. republicans have to decide, and i like steve scalise, i think you probably do too. they have to change the rules. but republicans have to make a fundamental change, this week, next week, whenever they are talking to each other. and that is, they want to govern. if they want to be bomb throwers and they want to be disrupters, they are doing a great job of that. but it is going to cost them the 2024 house. i think they are going to get beat badly, look at the --

those seats they are talking about. i don't think they have a shot anyway. and they are making it a lot worse. then that causes a problem for whoever the nominee is. i don't think it is going to be trump. i'm going to say that i national tv. i -- >> now money for the rnc or -- >> -- name up to be speaker of the house as well. look for that to happen as well. >> who is it going to be? >> in fact, in january -- actually right in donald trump. but look, i think the republican party, the brand of the republican party has been so badly damaged by donald trump and then again by the impact of what the maga wing of the party has done, to just the brand of the party. i do want to take a quick second, though, on the other side of the house, in the senate, i was honored to be there where we have our third black woman in the united

states senate, laphonza butler -- something positive did happen that. they somebody lost a job -- what a silver lining. that were my heart for a minute. >> everyone thank you and stand by for a moment here there's so much more ahead for our breaking news coverage. mccarthy by the way saying, forget it. he's not running for speaker again but will he resign his seat in congress. hear his answers on that in just a. moment plus breaking news tonight, out of baltimore. reports of an active shooting at morgan state university. an arm multiple victims details ahead.

tonight the judge and donald trump's fraud trial is issuing a gag order against the former president. it bans him from speaking publicly about members of the court staff, this is after trump posted about the court clerk on social media. here is what he said, on his way out of court today. >> but i'll be back tomorrow, good day.

>> what time? >> what about the gag order? but >> i'm back now with my panel, we are joined also by westchester county new york just or toonie, mimi broca. mimi, this is an extraordinary move by this judge. lots of people want to put gag orders on trump, in this case he decided to do. it do you see the rationale here? >> absolutely. i understand why it should be looked at as extraordinary but first of all, i read and i don't think it's gotten out there much in the public discourse about this. the judge actually did warn trump yesterday about this. judges often give warnings. before they issue an order like this. it's also very narrowly tailored order. this is a very specific post that trump made about an actual person sitting in the courtroom

who he posted personal information about her. >> somebody just doing their -- job >> exactly. that is when you see the judges, you see merrick garland doing interviews and speaking out even more. people who are the public face, the judges, the attorney general, the tourney general of the united states, the federal cases. jack smith. you see the principles, the people who are the public face really taking action and speaking out when he starts to go after the every day career prosecutors, court clerks, people doing their jobs. because that is not fair to them. and it's very dangerous. i think this was completely appropriate. >> this is part of a pattern, if it were just a one-off it were one thing. trump consistently attacks people who part of the system, whether it's election workers, or courtroom workers. it almost seems like the intent

is to raise the bar for what we think is out of bounds, for someone to do when it comes to just what is appropriate behavior? >> a fortunately is done just that over the last seven, years he's normalized sore all sorts of bad behavior. he's the leader of this anti-institutional movement that has countered the republican party, when you look at these judges, or clerks when they do their jobs. they are representatives of the institutions that trump in many way is railing against. unfortunately, for a lot of americans they don't feel like the institutions have been responding to them for the last number of years. his bring it down message, has been resonating for years, and now unfortunately, is no closer to getting any weaker as far as we can tell. >> jamal, trump is basically making this a dane the campaign

press conference, he's out there every single day. he is daring the judge to do something. the judge did something in this case because it was a court officer. but he's literally attacking the judge every day. >> he is, let's think about this from the trump side as a political strategy. they don't really have a lot of other options. he can't campaign today, because he has got to be in the courtroom. so instead of trying to get around being in the courts, he goes to court, he makes outrageous statements. he supplies the dopamine for his people to keep them i am up. what's happened, like any other environment, the more he stimulates them, the more he has to do to keep them stimulated in order for them to see him as being the real truth taylor, the only one that saying things that no one else is saying. >> i don't even think it's that strategic, i think he just can't help himself. he loves to call everyone nasty. he's the pygmy of nastiness. he cannot help but attack

people personally. even if it not strategic, he can't help it. you watch any legal show, watch suits or law & order. common sense. the one thing you don't want to do is piece of the judge. this is the one thing you do not want to do. he just cannot help himself, when he feels like he can attack and bully someone. he's categorically a bully. >> it's just the beginning it's a limited gag order. what are the consequences if he breaks it, if he ignores it, if he goes any further? what do you expect? >> this is a stress test in my view. all of these cases for the judicial system. things that work with people, ordinary people i will call them, not people running for president, not people who are like donald trump in all the ways we are talking about. they don't work here. i think it's more intentional that he can't help themselves, i think he's trying to de-legitimize the institutions that hold him up accountable.

he's been doing that since 2015. it's been a strategy all along and he's very good at it. in d. legitimizing the judge that could hold him accountable. what the judge is going to do, he issues the gag order, there's a very high like al lee hood trump will violate it in some form. and probably the judge will issue a fine or sanction. prison in, most defendants would have been jailed for things like this. whether a sanction will have the impact we will have to see we are stressing the limits of these rules. -- >> that is exactly want trump wants. >> mimi thank you for joining us tonight than everyone else standby for us. >> there is so much more ahead of our breaking news coverage. more powerful conversations to be had. house recitations ousted speaker kevin mccarthy, throwing the chamber into chaos, and turmoil