and the last that i heard was that, you know, there is all these different, you know, like egypt, israel, you know, hamas, you know, fighting about the border. you know, in 2006 during the lebanese hezbollah israel confrontation people were evacuated by the marines and there were two or 3,000 of them, as i recall. at some point, you might think, maybe send in the marines and evacuate them, the americans, because everything is at an impasse right now. >> impasse. i know -- i just imagine your concern for your wife. i know her fortitude. this is a dire moment and time really matters. my thoughts are with you, paul. i hope you hear from her soon and we will be getting better news on that border despite the

expectations out there. >> my pleasure. >> thank you for joining us. "ac-360" begins now. it is 3:00 a.m. here in israel, which is even at this late hour dealing with repercussions of a huge tragedy on a terrible, terrible scale. the massive explosion at a hospital in gaza city. we should say at the outset the pictures are as horrible as the incident itself. we want to show you new video moments after the blast. hundreds are believed dead. we are talking about men, women, and children, civilians, more may still be buried in rubble at the al-ahli baptist hospital. the hospital not only had patients and doctors and nurses inside, but thousands of displaced people outside who had been seeking shelter there displaced from the bombings that had been going on in gaza. compounding the loss of life.

>> we cannot independently confirm how many people were killed in this blast, but the pictures are sickening. one photojournalist witnessed many moments like this, telling "the new york times," quote, there were so many bodies, i couldn't even photograph. many, many wounded people. women, children were taken to a hospital nearby. here you see a child and an adult being taken from an ambulance.

>> the number of dead and wounded so great, there was almost no room for the medics. another reporter who witnessed the initial wave of casualties telling "the times," quote, their bodies are in the courtyard. the morgue freezer is full. the morgue extension is full. now they are storing the bodies in the area designated for journalists. hamas officials are blaming israel for the blast. israel denies that, saying a failed rocket long by islamic jihad fell short landing by the hospital. an idf spokesman saying the idf has intelligence which might be made public suggesting that possibility. >> we are in the progress of declassifying. i cannot promise yet that we will, but maybe because of the importance and because of what is at stake here, that may happen.

>> the stakes could not be higher. the consequences already playing out with protesters taking to the streets on the west bank near the u.s. embassy in lebanon and in cities in jordan, including near israel's embassy in amman where secretary of state antony blinken has been staying in preparation for wednesday's now canceled summit with president biden, palestinian leader mahmoud abbas and jordan's president al-sisi. president biden left several hours ago. his visit for a summit that has now been canceled, being overtaken by events on the ground. there is a lot to get to in the hour ahead on this. a lot of things in play. first to our clarissa ward in ashkelon with the latest that we know on the blast at the hospital. clarissa, what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, anderson, we have been talking to people inside gaza, talking to doctors who are inside that hospital, one of them said that the ceiling actually collapsed on to

the operating room floor where he was carrying out a surgery. palestinian authorities and also the entire really arab world coming forward almost immediately and laying the blame for this at israeli forces feet, saying was an israeli strike. eyewitnesses on the ground also saying that. the idf, as you mentioned, coming out and saying a full-throated denial, saying that this was caused, they believe, by a misfire potentially, rocket from the militant group islamic jihad. i will say just based on seeing these rocket attacks many times over the years that they don't usually have an impact like that in terms of the size of the blast, in terms of the scale of the death toll, and the scope of the damage. it's also not the first time, it's important to add, we have seen the idf categorically denih my something before being forced to do an about-face after an

extensive investigation. but at this stage it remains to be seen exactly what happened. we will have to try to put together a fuller picture, and that could take days. meantime, what is clear is that these images that you have been playing, which are absolutely horrifying and hard to watch, are having a huge impact across the region. certainly here in the west bank. you have seen protests outside demanding that mahmoud abbas step down. protests, as you mentioned, in amman, jordan, turkey. you will see calls from hamas and other groups for people to take to the streets, to voice their anguish and horror at this event, and all of this coming as president biden expected tomorrow to arrive in israel. obviously, he was supposed to also meet in amman, jordan, with leaders of the palestinian authority of egypt, of jordan.

that meeting now has been canceled. i think this calls into question the specter of any possibility to try to resolve the logjam that had existed that was preventing the flow of aid through that rafah broward county in southern gaza strip on the border with egypt to prevent that and allow that aid to get back in. [ inaudible ] it took place in northern gaza city. they asked, the israelis asked people to evacuate, but there were strikes earlier today in the southern part of gaza. i spoke to one family from northern gaza who saw those strikes and said that they did not feel comfortable leaving their hoepgs, that they felt too frightened, felt the situation was not secure there, and all off this, of course, taking place against the rapidly unraveling situation with regards to the humanitarian

catastrophe. one u.n. person calling it an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe playing out as gaza runs out mof food, water, medicine, electricity, anniversary. >> you know, let's talk about how this may, as you said, complicate, if not halt, efforts to get humanitarian supplies on to the ground at the very least in southern gaza across that rafah border crossing. do we know exactly what the holdup has been and how and why this blast at the hospital would make it even more difficult? >> well, there has been a lot of finger-pointing on this, right? the egyptians laid the blame with the israelis, saying these continued strike near broward county makes it impossible to open the border crossing. hamas at israel. the u.s. has been engaged in shuttle diplomacy trying to get

all different sides to agree on some sort of a mechanism. and yesterday secretary of state antony blinken after more than 7 1/2 hours sitting with the israeli cabinet came out and said that he was optimistic that they had agreed on some kind of a plan, they would be able to open that that corridor, may be able to establish these so-called humanitarian zones in the southern part of the gaza strip. but what this horrible strike on the hospital does is it kind of hardens everyone's positions and makes it impossible for people to sit down at a table and have that conversation. so that summit that was supposed to take place with the leader of egypt, with president biden, with king abdullah, with mahmoud abbas, that is no longer on the table. that means that it's that much more difficult for diplomacy to take place and everyone's priorities is on condemning and containing the outrage from this as opposed to being able to find some kind of a consensus to try

to allow the border crossing to open, the aid to come in, the foreign nationals to leave, the most heavily wounded to be evacuated, let alone to begin trying to construct these humanitarian zones that have been suggested. >> we should also point out, given the destruction we have seen in gaza, for people who have been wounded and, now, have -- need urgent attention from this hospital blast, they are being taken to another hospital nearby, but that hospital was already, according to health officials on the ground, hamas health officials, that hospital was already overwhelmed and at capacity. >> reporter: so the hospitals on the ground in gaza are now, according to palestinian health ministry, basically not able to function. they don't have enough medicine. they don't have proper electricity. there were reports that some surgeons were forced to perform surgeries without any painkillers.

beyond that, as you said, anderson, these hospitals are often a place of refuge for people. hospitals, hotels. these are the places that people in gaza go to, to try to get some respite from these bombardments because they believe that they will be safe. so for a number of reasons now, that becomes, you know, impossible for many people. the hospitals that are still operational to some extent are completely overrun and the supplies that they need in order to be able to carry out even the minimum level of services are not incoming. so it is a catastrophic situation. it is an unsustainable situation, and very sadly, part particularly in light of tonight's strike, a very difficult situation to resolve in the near future. certainly president biden will have a huge challenge on his hands. >> yeah, clarissa ward. thank you. now to oren liebermann at the

pentagon with new reporting we are getting about the intelligence that israelis say they are providing american officials about the blast. oren, what are you learning? >> reporter: israeli intelligence shared with the u.s. counterparts the intelligence they have related to the explosion at the gaza hospital there. that's not just from the israelis. a source familiar with the matter on the u.s. side has confirmed that as well. the u.s. is now analyzing that and look at the intelligence shared to get a better sense of what truly happened there. and that's an important point to make. in terms of what sort of intelligence has been shared, the israeli official said it signals intelligence, intercepted communications and conversations passed to the uss so those could be analyze. look at intelligence has been shared with at least some members of congress who have pretty much voiced full-throated support for israel. the idf is well aware especially in times of conflict it can have a credibility issue, especially

with others in the region. if the u.s. were to look at the same set of data and come to same conclusion, that would at least back israel up and give them much more credibility even if it doesn't change the situation diplomatically, meaning nobody would expect to see the arab states to rescind their statements blaming israel for the explosion at the hospital, but gives the idf much more credibility here as right now it is them saying, look, we have the intercepted communications, videos that we might put out and this will show what they claim is that islamic jihad was responsible and it was a failed rocket. so the u.s. has the intel from the israelis and is looking at it as the u.s. tries to draw its own conclusions it to get a better understanding of what happened at the hospital there. anderson. >> how concerned are pentagon officials about the demonstrations, the outpouring of anger that has occurred just in the last couple of hours in the west bank, in jordan, in

beirut and elsewhere? >> reporter: so, they are certain to be monitoring this. those are conversations i would imagine are happening between the defense department and state department on if there needs to be some sort of effort to get diplomats or others and perhaps diplomatic families out of those embassies. we haven't gotten any indications for that yet. the bigger concern for d.o.d.'s end, and this is something they have been watching from the beginning, is whether this conflict in gaza escalates to the point where iran or iranian proxies, hebz and lebanon, feel it's their time to get involved here, especially as israel has so many forces focused on the regional. and again we talked about this a little bit. there is the carrier strike group in the eastern med, another on the way. the pentagon confirming reporting from yesterday that a marine rapid response force is headed the red sea with another ship. there are tremendous amount of u.s. assets headed that way. not to get involved in the conflict in gaza. israel made it clear it doesn't

want that to happen. send a message of deterrence to others they should not get involved as this war between israel and hamas in gaza, islamic jihad as you see here, very much continues. >> oren liebermann. thank you. president biden is on his way here. and within the hour the white house put out a new statement. cnn's m.j. lee is at the white house tonight. what are you hearing? >> reporter: yeah, anderson, in the last hour the president putting out a new statement on this hospital blast offering his condolences and the president saying that he is directing his national security team to continue gathering information and to determine what exactly happened. as you can imagine, this is going to be an extraordinarily sensitive issue for the white house. and u.s. officials to weigh in on given that there are conflicting claims from hamas, from the idf, and so u.s. officials for the time being trying to make clear they have not made a determination as to who is responsible but as oren

said, they are just going through the intelligence, trying to collect information and trying to figure out exactly what happened and who might be responsible. but needless to say, as we have been talking about, it's had a huge effect on the president 's upcoming travel to jordan, being canceled after palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas pulling out of that meeting and this is going to be a very disappointing setback for the administration. they had wanted to show signs that diplomacy was possible, that diplomatic talks were possible. certa certain certainly aub as pulling out and that gets infinitely harrarder not to mention the fact that egypt's president, el sisi, he was supposed to be there as well. so all the conversations that we have taken place in person with these regional leaders no locker going to happen face to face and the president had very much wanted these conversations to happen and be in the room with these leaders from the region

and to try to sort of get across the finish line some of the things that they thought might be achievable in the coming days. >> so, is it possible that the president would still have, you know, phone conversations, you know, on remote meetings with each of these leaders? >> reporter: yeah. the white house has been clear about that. they said that even though this meeting is not going to happen tomorrow, they are actually saying that it has been postponed and they have made here clooer that the president will stay in close contact with these leaders that he is no longer going to see in person. look, anderson, i think administration officials knew going into this week and this trip just how volatile the situation is. the scenes that you are playing on the screen right now very much validate those expectations. i think, if anything, what has happened today, what transpired today is just going to bring even more clarity to one of the

most urgent prior teayer tease this president as he heads to israel, minimizing the number of civilian casualties. if you have been paying attention to statements from the president, statements out of the white house since the israel attack began last weekend, we have seen a more forceful tone coming from the president when he has talked about urging the israelis, urging his counterpart in israel, prime minister netanyahu, to take every effort to -- every measure and effort that they can to make sure that civilian casualties can be minimized, they are adhering to the rules of law, of war, rather, and so this is going to be something when he meets face to face with prime minister netanyahu, and we can certainly expect that he is going to be even more emphatic about that than before. also, just on the humanitarian aid piece of this, i know clarissa touched on this a little bit, this is going to be an increasingly urgent matter

for the president. the fact that we have these scenes of hundreds of people that have died, casualties of this, they are now going to need medical help when this is an area where people are not even able to have access to basically needs right now like food, water, electricity. so these scenes are all unfolding as the president is headed to israel and it is certainly going to continue to remain top of mind for him as he meets with prime minister netanyahu. >> the nature of how diff difficult -- sorry. you know how inflamed things are right now, both in, you know, in the west bank, in beirut, and elsewhere. you know the skepticism among many israelis saying this explosion was not their doing.

should israel publicly release whatever intelligence they say they have according to our reporter has been passed on to u.s. intelligence already? >> hi, anderson. first of all, the pictures from gaza are heart-wrenching. no one wants to see these people suffer this way. very, very disturbing. i am also deeply dismayed. once again, the world jumps to conclusions that israel is guilty. headline in "the new york times," israel kills 500 people at a gaza hospital. these demonstrations around the world. and i have, you know, long memory, 2006 there were nine palestinian children killed on a beach in gaza and the whole world blamed us and it turned out it was a hamas torpedo that killed them. 2008. >> during the first round of fighting with hamas and i fought in that round, hamas reported 51 children were killed by an israeli mortar in the u.n. school. it was completely made up. everyone reports it as truth and the damage is done. and what's the source here?

people keep talking about it's the palestinian health ministry. the palestinian health ministry. it's hamas health ministry. it's like saying isis health ministry, al qaeda health ministry. it's not exactly a believable, credible source. andoy do think that let israel -- >> just to your point, to your point though, look, i would say we have been very accurate in our reporting. we are saying this was a blast. we don't know who is responsible. we have said what the hamas health minister has said and what israel has said. i am just asking if you think israeli government should put out intelligence that it says it had, you know, colonel conricus said they are considering it. do you think they should? >> certainly. we know where every bomb falls. this is a very organized army. we know where every artillery

shell -- it's all written down, computerized. certainly we know every aerial bomb. this belief that a failed rocket, a hamas or palestinian, islamic jihad rocket couldn't cause this type of dodge, you are talking to something next for d.a.o. tore my house, one of those took down one an apartment building. we don't know what is under the hospital. hamas puts headquarters under hospitals, arsenals under hospital. we don't know what this bomb hit, this rocket. so there is much to be investigated here. i think when the israel army, when the idf puts out a statement saying we didn't do it, it was a palestinian islamic jihad rocket they had evidence. our right. we should share that without sort of exposing sensitive intelligence sources, because he's are intelligence sources apparently according to oren liebermann, your correspondent, at the pentagon, these sources have been shared with the pentagon by the israeli

military. i think they should make public again the degree to which that is possible not endangering intelligence assets that we might have in gaza. >> let me ask you, clarissa ward talked about how this might impact the attempt to create some sort of humanitarian relief down in the south of gaza with things coming across the border, the egyptian border. obviously, from a just beyond the humanitarian issue from a military standpoint, i assume it's in israel's best interest to have as many civilians go to that southern place and the more supplies they have there, the more civilians would likely come. how concerned regent university that given what has happened here, the large number of fatalities that -- at this hospital, that that's going to complicate whatever israel's plans are on the ground in gaza? >> i would think -- again i want

to stress i am not a pokes man for the government here. so i have my own opinions. israel public opinion is very high against providing this type of aid to the palestinians. there is a deep feeling among the public that the palestinian -- the palestinian population in gaza was highly supportive of hamas. that many hundreds if not thousands of palestinians not members of hamas participated the massacres of october 7th. they came to the breaches in the wall and they killed israelis, kidnapped israelis. we believe that a number of our hostages are not in the hands of hamas, they are actually in the hands of individual families in gaza who want to sell the hostages. so it's a political issue here. i would like to see more aid personally and i am sure that this was occurred this tragedy will probably strengthen the president's hand in trying to persuade israelis leaders to go against public opinion, what you call in diplomacy a heavy lift for these leaders. end of the day, it's not our decision. it's egypt's decision.

our major crossing into gaza was the -- we translated it, ironically, the vineyard of peace. that crossing has been blasted by hamas. the israelis who work there are dead. the approaches are shelled by hamas. it's difficult to tell say israeli drivers take that truck and drive to that crossing and risk your life. that's a very difficult -- that's a heavy lift. the issue is egypt. and egypt is super, super sensitive to anything that comes across that rafah crossing either going from gaza into sinai or from sinai into gaza. i think the major issue is going to be persuading the egyptians to open up that crossing. >> michael oren, thank you for your time. in addition to the hospital blast, there is the mass migration now underway in gaza. earlier tonight i spoke with a student, one of the hundreds of thousands of people who has moved further south.

>> can you just tell us where you are now and what your situation is? >> before i start, i just a want to say that i'm here to represent every civilian and every woman who is trying to have basic rights and to live a normal, peaceful life. and right now i evacuated to the south as i followed instructions. they told us to evacuate from the north to the south. so my family and i evacuated to a house. one of our friend's house. and we are staying with 57 people here. >> 57 people in one house? >> yes. it's one room. one kitchen. one bath. so we are all sharing this

place. >> and do you feel safer now where you are? obviously, there are still strikes going on in the south. >> of course not. and the whole gaza strip, there is no place is safe. there is no place safe. we hear the bombs. we see them. we feel the pressure after the bombs goes down. >> i am sure you have heard about the hospital that -- there was an explosion at the hospital. hamas says it was an israeli strike. the idf is saying it was a rocket that fell short from islamic jihad. when you heard of it, what did you think? >> all i think about is the people who were trying to feel safe or trying to have the

medical treatment and now they are killed. 500 people were killed now, or maybe more. this is a real massacre. this is inhuman, inhumanitarian. so all i think about is how these people -- they died. they were killed. and we are talking about a lot of people that were killed. a lot of crdreams were killed. people would thought that they were taking medical treatment and be okay and the next day, now they are been. they are gone. i am terrified if this is going to happen to us either. a civilian trying to feel safe and maybe in the next moments

where there are going to be bombs and we are going to be killed also. so all i think about is how am i going to be safe. and i want to be safe. i want to feel that me and my family are safe. this is all i think about. >> you are # 22 years old. you're a student. >> yes. >> you are studying architecture, is that right? >> yes, i am. i am an architecture student. i am into my senior year. before this event happened, i was preparing for my graduation project. i can't continue what i was doing or what i was preparing because these events happened. and the whole university was destroyed. >> somebody sitting in the united states watching this or

sitting in their home in france watching this, what do you want them to know about what has happened in your town? what has happened to you? >> all i want them to know that there are civilians, people who want, wish to live a normal, peaceful life, to feel safe, because we are human, and all we want is to have our rights and live peacefully. as a woman and as a girl, all i want in this life is to educate and to graduate and have a job and have a family. this is all you want. i want them to know that. and so a lot of people here, representing every person here,

every civilian that we want our basic simple rights and to feel safe. yeah, that's it. >> you want what we all want. >> yeah. and you have it and we don't. we don't. i sleep -- i don't know if i'm going to wake up or not. or am i going to wake up and have my family next to me or not. and maybe i'll go to sleep and i'll wake up and see the ceiling or the whole building that i'm staying in is destroyed or i'm going to be killed. i don't have these rights. and this is what i want the world to know, that these rights are things that all people have,

but we don't -- >> thank you for taking the time to talk to us. i am so sorry for what is happening. >> you're welcome. >> much more ahead in a moment, including perspective from retired four-star general former cia director david petraeus. we'll be right back.

. moments ago nic robertson haerld multiple airstrikes in

the direction of northern gaza. we will bring you more information on them as we get it. the strikes come as the new pictures come to cnn of protesters in lebanon trying to break through security barriers near the u.s. embassy outside of beirut. anger over that blast that palestinian officials say killed hundreds, israel blamed islamic jihad for the blast. gaza officials blame israel. hezbollah called for a day of unprecedented anger. that's what they are calling it. ben wedeman now from southern lebanon. ben, what more do we know about the reaction in lebanon? what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, it's over now. it's almost 4:00 in the morning in beirut. but what we saw was that hundreds, actually thousands of people headed towards the american embassy, which is about ten miles north of beirut, there they gathered in the square that's at the bottom of the hill that leads to the american

embassy, and they tried to break through barriers set up by the lebanese police. now, in the process, the lebanese police started to respond with tear gas. so it was a quite a chaotic scene there. but scenes repeat inside other places as well. in ramallah on the west bank, we saw palestinians clashing with palestinian security forces while they were trying to protest. many of them, in fact, calling for the downfall of palestinian president mahmoud abbas who, for many palestinians, feel has been passive during the war gaza, has been largely cooperative with the israelis over the year. they see him as a collaborator, many of them. so you have to keep in mind that when there are shockwaves like the war in gaza, those shockwaves can shake many of the very unpopular regimes in the arab world. elsewhere, in ammon, jordan,

protesters convergeden the israeli embassy there. they set fires around it, tried to break in the jordanian police had to go in and really fight with them to beat them back. but certainly this is indicative of the level of anger across the arab world at the situation. there were massive protests in baghdad as well. now, as far as what's this going to mean perhaps tomorrow, we know that in beirut, hezbollah called for a massive day of rage, a large protest is going to object held there, and here on the southern border of lebanon, which borders israel, the expectation is that perhaps hezbollah's wrath is going to be felt on the other side of the border, that this may be one day with their going it open fire more than they have been recently, which is quite a lot. in fact, in the last hour or so, we have been hearing a fair amount of distant thuds coming

from the direction of the border with israel. anderson. >> ben wedeman, thank you. the protests come hours before president biden is due to arrive in israel. the president also planned to attend summit in jordan. that has been canceled after the gaza hospital blast. jeremy diamond is in jerusalem awaiting the president's arrival. what do we know about the cancellation of president biden's meeting with arab leaders. >> reporter: had blast of the hospital in gaza left a uproar in the arab world. arab leaders under intense pressure their populations to not only condemn israel for this blast, which israel denies it was responsible for, but also to show that they were standing up not only to israel, but also to israel's biggest supporter, of course, the united states. all of that effectively made the president's planned summit in

ahman jordan to meet with the egyptian president effectively untenable. also clear that the humanitarian situation in gaza was going to be at the forefront of those meetings. so now i think the real question is will the progress that secretary blinken seems to have been making on that humanitarian front to allow a humanitarian corridor of aid to flow into gaza, of american sit glens to flow out of gaza, will that progress be squundered in light of what has happened? >> how much is the hospital explosion expected to complicate the president's meeting with israeli's prime minister? >> well, as we've seen, the israel defense forces have been trying to put out information to get their side of the story out to say effectively that they are not responsible for this blast, blaming instead islamic jihad. they have been doing that in part of course because they want to correct the record as they see it, but also, of course, there is a greater sense of urgency around that effort given the fact that the president is

on his way to israel right now and set to land a matter of hours. in fact, i am told that the president is going to be presented with that information directly by israeli officials when he is here on the ground. and all of this, this blast at the hospital, regardless of who is responsible, it will put a higher focus, a spotlight perhaps, on what we have been sort of starting to see a little bit more from the president in recent days. yes, he is continuing to say that he supports israel's right to defend itself, to go after hamas in any way it sees fit. he also put an increasing spotlight in recent days on the toll of civilian casualties inside of gaza and i'm told that is going to be a focus of the president's message there tomorrow. in fact, john kirby, the national security council spokesman, was just doing a gaggle with reporters on air force one where he said the president will be asking tough questions of israeli officials when he is on the ground. but again comes back to bigger

picture with some cancellations happening and the president's trip effectively shortened. will he be able to deliver the same results he intended to d do when he arrived here tomorrow with this -- all of these changes at the last minute. anderson. >> jeremy diamond, thank you. more perspective now on the deadly hospital blast in gaza. joining me is retired general david petraeus, former head of the u.s. central command, former cia director and author of conflict the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine which is out today. general petraeus, thank you for meeting us here. there are conflicting reports on the cause of this explosion at the hospital in gaza. we have seen incidents like this before where there is massive loss of horrific loss of life and finger-pointing. how does this change things on the ground? how do you see it? >> well, the challenge is that even if -- and i believe the

i idf spokesperson laid out their confidence that this was not a bomb dropped by their aircraft that, it was a rocket launched by the palestinian islamic jihad. and i suspect they have some very good intelligence and surveillance footage or what have you that enabled them to have the confidence to make that statement. they are trying to declassify some of this. of course, they don't want to disclose sources and methods that are very sensitive. the problem if that is correct, and i believe it, there is a disbelief and this has been used by those who wish israel ill, to stoke the kinds of demonstrations that we have seen. of course, the concern is the regionalization of what is already an exceedingly difficult situation just in gaza, fiendishly challenging mission for the israeli defense forces if they are to go in and clear and hold these areas to destroy hamas.

now you have the unrest in these other locations. some of this is what was feared, there would be further unrest on the west bank, in some fashion hezbollah would feel compelled they have to employ some of the 150,000 rockets that they have in southern lebanon knowing they are going to get hammered in return as they did in 2006 and probably not wanting that, but again feeling that they are compelled to do that. and there are other vulnerabilities around the theater. we have thousands of american forces in iraq at the request of the iraqi government helping their forces keep an eye on the remnants of the islamic state. similar deployment in northeastern syria and forces up and down in the gulf states across the gulf from iran. so there is a lot of concern that should be there and there is going to have to be a major effort to convince individuals that what they are protesting is wrong. they should be protesting against, in this case, the islamic jihad, the ally of the hamas terrorist organization.

>> the israeli defense forces said the past that some 30% of rockets fired from gaza misfire, fall short, often landing in gaza itself. do you believe that's accurate? >> i think it's very close to accurate. again, our experience when we were on the receiving end of a lot of rockets provided by iran to shia militia and iraq and elsewhere, a lot of them don't function perfectly. so i think that that's a reason estimation. i am sure they have the data that would back that up. the bottom line is that these types of rockets, a lot large number of them do, not function properly, and there is a history of that happening over many occasions in gaza, that they don't get all the way to israel, fall short of the target, fail to ignite properly, so forth. so this is a believable and again if they have evidence of that, that they have seen intelligence, footage or what

have you, it would be great if they could disclose it. although i understand why sensitive methods need to be safeguarded. >> if you were with the idf, i mean, you were a great military strategist. if you were going to do a ground operation, ground invasion of gaza, wouldn't it be in the idf's interest to have as many civilians in the south as possible and to provide or somehow allow humanitarian organizations to provide tented shelters, running water, food and the like to encourage as many civilians to stay there as possible? >> yes, and i think that i suspect that president biden will be discussing those very issues when he meets with prime minister netanyahu and his war cabinet. if i could, this also just highlights the enormous challenges of conducting any military operations in such a densely populated urban area. we had a lot of experience with

that over the years in iraq in particular, some in afghanistan as well, and these operations are very, very hard. remember that it took the iraqi security forces nine months to clear mosul of the islamic state. that's a city about the same size as gaza city and we were supporting that operation with a lot of drones and air power and other systems. so these are very, very tough operations, and here you are facing an enemy who doesn't wear a uniform, blends in with the population, uses the population and likely will use the hostages, nearly hundred of them as human shields, suicide bombers. the challenges are enormous. take this out further, anderson, the other conversation is going to be okay, we understand the need to destroy hamas, to render them incapable of accomplishing their mission without reconstitution. you are going to take a huge number of losses to do that. we support that. but what happens then?

especially if they take out the hamas political wing, which they have said they intend to dismantle as well, what's going to run gaza? who is going to restore the basic services? israel doesn't want to reoccupy gaza understandably. the president cautioned them against doing that. if you just go in and destroy hamas, in other words, it's really then a lawn mowing, but right down to the dpirt, the moment you leave, the grass is going to begin to grow again. so there has to be a force that comes in. it would be great if there could be in fact arab countries that would support this. they are always concerned about the palestinians. this would be a great way to demonstrate that concern, have an interim international authority of some type, ideally sponsored you under the auspices of the u.n., but with a strong lead nation because they are going to have to then conduct not just nation building, not just the restoration of basic services and repair of damaged infrastructure and get schools and clinics and roads repaired and all of that.

they are going to have to fight the remnants of hamas which are going to try to come back and take control of the territory again. >> and just finally, we are hearing from a number of israeli officials, former and current, lately that it's not just hamas and its affiliate groups, islamic jihad and others, there are thousands of supporters of those organizations which i don't understand how they deal with that in a -- i mean, if there are thousands of, you know, non-military supporters of those organizations, are those people valid targets as well according to the israelis? >> no. >> ho you do you work in that environment? >> how active is their support? rhetorically supporting them, exercise your free speech. we had plenty of demonstrations over the years in iraq. you contain them, communicate

with them, ultimately try to convince them. i hope there will be not just a vision for the destruction of hamas, again understandable. there should be. again, this dismantling of this organization that carried out the most unspeakable of all acts and on a scale that dwarfed per capita many, many times a what we experienced on 9/11. it will be well over 40,000 equivalent for us. but there should be a vision about, again, what then? how about a vision for the palestinian people -- >> have you heard a vision? do you believe there is one? >> i think that would be wise to offer. and a vision, frankly, also about the west bank. use this as a catalyst. this horrible, terrible, unspeakable event, the same way that the yom kippur war was a catalyst for what eppeded up being a peace agreement between

egypt and israel. there you had leader you could dole with who wasn't determined . >> retired general david petraeus, thank you. the evolution of warfare from 1945 from ukraine is out today. coming up israel's military has called him the face of evil. he's the head of hamas in gaza. a closer look he's living in qatar, a closer look who he is plus a conversation with a journalist from "the new yorker" who just spoke to a senior hamas leader about their objectives next.

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release of hostages and also a key target for israel. sam kiley has more on the leader of hamas in gaza. >> reporter: israel wants this man dead, the leader of hamas in gaza. >> the face of evil in the end. >> reporter: he was first convicted in 1988 for the murder of two israeli soldiers and four palestinians suspected of collaboration with israel. and he spent two decades in an israeli prison studying his enemy. the founder of hamas internal security force, he had hunted alleged collaborators with zeal and was among the movement's biggest prizes when over a 1,000 palestinian prisoners were released in 2011 for an israeli soldier held hostage in gaza for five years.

he said there is no doubt this is a nationalist par excellence. it is one of the big strategic monuments in the history of our cause. he quickly became head of hamas' military wing and on election to the gaza military leadership in 2017 effectively abolished its civilian branch. he repaired friendships with cairo and built regional relationships that entrenched hamas power. >> it really needed to have also good relations with the key arab state that also only shares the only arab border with the gaza strip and with iran that could supply hamas with military and logistical support. >> reporter: iran has pulled military support into hamas under him, and qatar has been a major backer of civilian projects. he was soon in israel's cross hairs quite literally. the idf tried to kill him in may

2021. ten days later he laid out his strategy. he said, if the world doesn't take action to stop it, meaning israel, there will be a religious war in the region. and he soon appeared in gaza alongside egypt's intelligence chief. the u.s. is now relying on egypt and qatar as key players to try to secure the safe release of hamas' 200 captives. their main point of contact is likely -- unless israel fulfills its promise to kill him. sam kiley, cnn. >> a major unanswered question here is what was hamas thinking with their terror attack? that is the headline of an article by a journalist from "the new yorker" who recently asked that of a senior political hamas official who is living in doha in qatar. david patrick who coauthored that piece joins us now. david, the article you wrote is

fascinating. what were they thinking? >> you know, the picture that emerged was desperation. i should tell you that when my colleague and i spoke to him, he said no, we're not despaired, we're strong. but the take away was they basically feel their backs are against the wall. it was, you know, a familiar litany of grievances about the occupation, about israeli settlements in the west bank, about the management of the mosque which is very important to palestinian muslims everywhere, but added to that was an increased sense of desperation because of the right-wing government around netanyahu, because of the messages it's conveying about its lack of receptivity to any kind of palestinian entity alongside israel and also a sense of betrayal as the other

arab states more and more accommodate themselves to israel, begin to recognize israel. and saudi arabia the most important of those the latest in line to make an agreement like that. so it's really a time when i think from his point of view of little choice. >> so for hamas it would be a success if you can talk about the murder of so many civilians as a success in their sick cal clas if that saudi deal does not go through, saudi arabia does not recognize the state of israel. and also they have these hostages who they have wanted to trade in the past and i assume want to trade now. >> yeah, that's all true. you know, and we pressed him on the sort of intelligible strategic reasons. did you do this because of saudi arabia, did you do this for prisoner exchanges. and he didn't think he could dissuade saudi arabia. saudi arabia is going to do what

saudi arabia wants to do and they wanted to exchange prisoners. at the same time this attack has brought an enormous, enormous degree of pain on the palestinians living in gaza. and when we pressed him about how the practical strategic advantage of this attack could justify that sacrifice, his answers were very abstract, very nebulous. he was looking towards a very, very distant horizon. all he could say was for years they've been fighting on our territory and killing us, this time we're fighting on their territory for the first time, which is -- you know, it's a symbolic victory of sorts but it's not much. >> we should point out and you point this out in the article in "the new yorker," which i encourage people to read, he lied to you. he denies civilians were targeted. he denies women and children were slaughtered. >> he did say some things which we found unconvincing about that. he said, yeah, after the hamas

fighters came in others came in afterwards, and it was those others who did these misdeeds. yeah, that's true. i didn't find that very convincing. he's certainly not the first military leader to try to spin in that way. >> if -- is it clear to you if hamas expects hezbollah to open up a second front in this war? >> it was clear from what he said they do not. obviously this is a war. there's lots of misinformation. but he seemed very candid. we said, you know, what if hezbollah enters this war, what it becomes a regional conflict, and he said quite frankly we wish. if only it could become a regional conflict, we'd love that. but we don't see any sign of it. hezbollah is going to more or less abide by its cease-fire with israel, he said. and he did not expect this war to expand on that other front. >> thank you so much. good to have you on the program again. the idea of a regional conflict, back in a moment wit