the republican party, either they're going to come back to someone like kevin mccarthy or patrick mchenry or someone is going to have to fall on their sword and cut a deal with democrats. >> and this is, i think, an important point to make and that is that what you are seeing is an example of and the ultimate example of the fight within the republican party, and there are so many, including and especially those who ousted kevin mccarthy, who just want to continue to disrupt. that is their governing philosophy and not get in there and legislate. >> right. which is a tactic that works when you are in the minority party of the house, but they are in the majority and those tactics are not the tactics of a governing majority. that faction has been in the house republican conference for a while, but we're seeing it spilling wide open to the fact that they have no leader. >> thank you all. appreciate it. thank you for your insight.

at least it's a beautiful day here in washington. >> see you again here. >> thank you so much for joining us. the news continues on "cnn news central." ♪ ♪ good afternoon, i'm brianna keilar with boris sanchez here in washington. we are following breaking developments in the middle east. today the israel defense forces say that the majority of hostages captured by hamas are still alive. the terror group claims that it will free them if there is a pause in fighting. the red cross has been in touch with hamas, seeking access to those captives, and russia says kremlin officials have communicated with hamas about haj hostage releases. on the military front the idf says it is prepared for a broader conflict and as the world braces for the next phase of its operations,enally a

move into gaza, the carnage continues there. the latest, a greek orthodox church compound leveled by an idf air strike. you're looking at video of it now. cnn can't independently confirm the number of casualties, but the health ministry in gaza says that 17 people were killed. in the meantime, trucks with food, water and medicine are still idling at the rafah border crossing between egypt and gaza in the south. days after gazans were first promised that aid would arrive. the u.n. secretary general was there pleading for movement as protests broke out across the arab world. let's start with cnn's nic robertson, he is in did he remember rot, israel. the idf is staging for what looks like a ground invasion as several agencies are in contact with hamas. actually, tell us what's going on where you are, it appears that there may be some missiles incoming. >> reporter: there were missiles fired out of gaza, i saw a salvo about seven or eight missiles

fi what we were showing you were the officer septs from the iron dome that was fired to intercept these, missiles that appeared to be sort of heading northeast out of gaza and i'm hearing a heavy detonation, a fighter jet came on station right after we heard those -- those -- and saw those rockets coming out of gaza. it was very, very clear. sometimes you just see the tail afterglow of the rockets coming out of gaza, but you could see these very clear streaks of amber light flashing through the sky, disappearing as at the arced up and they are the intercepts with the iron dome. it's been a relatively quiet day, in fact, a very quiet day until this moment. this is the first outgoing that we've seen perhaps in six or seven hours. there were a few salvos earlier in the day but there have been really almost no artillery and no israeli missile strikes going into gaza today. very, very quiet, which really gave the impression that behind

the scenes talks about humanitarian aid going into gaza, talks about possible hostage release, it all seemed to create an atmosphere that there were talks of some nature going on because that was the only thing or perhaps a likely thing that might have contributed to why the situation fell to little quiet. an anyway, that quiet was broken with that salvo of missiles fired out of gaza that have now been intercepted. >> nic, back to the question of hostages. several entities are now in contact with hamas about getting them released. bring us up to speed on where that stands now. >> reporter: yeah, it's been an effort by many different interlocutors or many different countries to try to find inte interlock could you torse. hamas doesn't have all the hostages, palestinian islamic jihad also has some, they sent

fighters across in that attack almost two weeks ago now. so israeli officials, the idf, government officials know that the majority of the hostages are alive. one of the principal inte interlocutors to get the hostages released has been the political office in doha for hamas, so it has a political -- a direct political face-to-face connection with hamas's political leaders who are not inside of gaza. so it has a mechanism and it is believed that the qataris have been one of the principal interlocutors but part of the difficulty is establishing what hamas will settle for in terms of the hostage release, what conditions they want imposed first on what they want in exchange, what israel is willing to accept as well. it has appeared the u.n.

secretary general yesterday when he was speak being this spoke about it in these terms, that if there was a humanitarian pause and humanitarian aid going into gaza, he seemed to imply in an unrestricted way that that would satisfy a part of a negotiation that would trigger hamas potentially releasing hostages. but it's not easy. we know that the international committee for the red cross, which is the global international body that deals with prisoners in different countries, hostages, that negotiates with governments, the icrc, the international committee for the red cross is the sort of committee that can deal with groups like the taliban in afghanistan. they have said that they have not been able to see or be in touch with the hostages so far because hamas has not allowed them to do that. so i think there's a huge amount of -- about the hostages we don't know, but i think the world turns to qatar at this moment in time to see what they

can do. >> all right. we will be looking for that. nic robertson, thank you so much. please stay safe where you are. and across the middle east and also north africa, jordan, lebanon, libya, yemen, turkey, egypt, so many locations we're seeing mass demonstrations in support of palestinians that are packing public squares. >> we want to take you now to amman jordan where nada bashir has been speaking to protesters. what is it like there? what are you hearing from them? >> reporter: well, you can see behind me this crowd is enormous, they've been shouting -- chanting that they want freedom for the palestinian people, they are expressing their solidarity with the palestinian people. it is very loud, very crowded so i'm going to keep this microphone quite close to my mouth so you can hear me. just take a look. the scale of this protest is huge and this is something that we have been seeing pretty much every night here in amman, jordan. as you mentioned, this is taking place across the middle east and even further afield. we've seen protests in london,

washington, d.c., new york, across europe, but of course in the middle east and particularly here in jordan this is a cause, an issue that is deeply close to many people's hearts. this is a country where more than half of the population are either palestinian or of palestinian descent. what we've seen is an outpouring of solidarity for the palestinian people, for palestinians in particular in the gaza strip, but also outrage, deep-seated anger being directed towards israel over the continued air strikes and the siege on the gaza strip, but also anger towards israel's western allies and the united states. now, we were at a march earlier this morning which took place after friday prayers, thousands of people taking part in that march through downtown amman, including families, young children, all wearing the traditional palestinian scarf, waving palestinian flags. this is a huge cause in this country and as we continue to see these air strikes ramping

up, as the siege continues, these protests are only getting stronger. they are not letting up. where we are right now is where a lot of the focus has been towards -- we're quite close to the israeli embassy and that is where many of these demonstrators have focused their attention, but you can hear they are deeply passionate about this issue and that is the same -- >> looks like we're having some issues with nada bashir's signal. there is breaking news back here at home. >> that's right. let's go straight to catalin polantz. as we understand the attorney for kenneth chesbro, a trump attorney who just took a plea deal in georgia was just speaking. what can you tell us? >> reporter: there's not going to be a trial until donald trump is set to go to trial as far as we know now in georgia. there was supposed to be the trial of ken chesbro and sidney powell starting today in fulton

county. that is canceled because both of those co-defendants of donald trump who wanted to go first and were daring the prosecutors to try their case, they both are pleading guilty to various crimes that they are charged with in georgia related to the 2020 election. chesbro in court this morning -- or this afternoon, just after noon, taking this guilty plea deal, agreeing to cooperate, and also as part of this deal implicating donald trump. essentially he is admitting that he was coordinating with the trump campaign to organize fake electors in the state of georgia and elsewhere, get them together so that there could be an effort to overturn the election or stall the certification, the transfer of power of the presidency in washington, d.c. in january of 2021. here is what a prosecutor outlined today as all of the mention that ken chesbro is agreeing that he did after the

2020 election as part of a felony plea deal. >> the defendant created and distributed false electoral college documents to individuals in georgia and other states in coordination with donald john trump for president, inc. also known as the trump campaign. the defendant provided detailed instructions to co-conspirators in georgia and other states for creating and distributing these false documents. three, co-conspirator donald john trust and john eastman solicited the director of the republican national committee to assist in recruiting persons to serve as fake electors in georgia as well as in other states. co-con spear source rudolph giuliani solicited persons to serve as false electors and provided strategic instructions to co-con spear course including exhibition of conspiracy in multiple states. david james shaffer, john steel

and cal least lakeum and others met in fulton county, georgia, on december 14, 2020, created false electoral college documents that falsely stated that the co-conspirator donald john trump had received all of georgia's electoral college votes. the co-conspirators also attempted to deliver a copy of the false documents to the northern district of georgia for the purposes of filing, entering and recording those documents in that court, having reason to know that those documents contained materially false statements that the co-conspirators were the electors of the state of georgia. the defendant was also personally present on the grounds of the united states capitol during the disruption and delay of the joint session of congress on january 6th. >> so, boris and brianna, the headline there is that what scott grubman, the attorney for ken chesbro has agreed to as part of this plea deal that ken

chesbro is admitting to is that he's pleading to one charge, a conspiracy to file false documents in the state of georgia, those fake electors sirs, and that conspiracy part of this charge that's very important because that means that ken chesbro, the attorney who was working with donald trump and the campaign, rudy giuliani, john eastman and others, the other people charged in this case, he's admitting to being part of that group, taking the efforts together. that's quite a significant step forward for not just the district attorney, fani willis, but the entire shape of this case. while chesbro was expected to go to trial today by himself, after his co-defendant sidney powell pleaded guilty yesterday, that trial is not happening and now this case is left with donald trump and several others including rudy giuliani, john eastman, mark meadows, many bold-faced names, other lawyers that were working at that same level as ken chesbro, sidney powell and others, they all will

now be going to trial at a later date together. so there wasn't going to be now a trial where ken chesbro would be trying his case as the only defendant that the jury would be looking at and maybe pointing to donald trump or prosecutors having to speak about donald trump with donald trump not in the room. >> katelyn polantz, thanks for the update. let's get legal perspective from renato marrimariotti. here kenneth chesbro essentially acknowledges that he conspired with donald trump, john eastman, rudy giuliani and others. what does that mean for the fulton county da's case going forward? >> it certainly helps. look, the way that this was set up, these attorneys were going to have their trial first, i think they went out in front and tried to do that because they recognized at a joint trial with donald trump and john eastman and others, ultimately what was

going to happen is donald trump and others were going to be pointing fingers at the attorneys and saying the attorneys put them up to it, the attorneys blessed this and said it was okay. now instead of having that dynamic where the defendants are pointing fingers at each other, now the attorneys are going to say, we committed crimes and these people were part of it. and i think that makes the da's case stronger and i also think it creates problems for some of the other defendants including some of the other attorneys. >> is he a stronger witness than sidney powell? >> it's not possible to be a weaker witness than sidney powell. i suppose rudy giuliani is up there on the weak witness category as well, but sidney powell has told so many untruths that i think it's hard to take her seriously. kenneth chesbro is a more serious person, although he has some problems himself, after all, you know, he was the one in emails talking about this as a fake electors scheme.

and, look, anybody who is a convicted felon, anyone who has cut a deal with the government is subject to criticism, but now the da has two witnesses and one advantage of i would say a shotgun approach where you're charging a lot of different people with a lot of different crimes. when you fire a shotgun into a crowd you're going to hit somebody. she's bagged a couple targets and more potentially. >> and notably powell and chesbro in their agreements, they have also agreed to testify in future trials including jack smith's federal election subversion case. if you are part of donald trump's defense team none of this is good. >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i mean, there's certainly a wall that is breaking down for donald trump here and, you know, part of that is an advantage that the da had and charging attorneys. attorneys have a lot of downside, it is very challenging and i think for people in their

position, the idea of spending time in a state penitentiary in georgia is not a particularly feeling proposition. so, you know, they tried an aggressive move by seeking an early trial. i do think it had some value for them because i think it encouraged the da to offer them a deal because she didn't want to preview all of her evidence before she was going to be going up against trump in a subsequent trial, but ultimately at the end of the day they had to plead guilty of times, kenneth chesbro the more serious plea, obviously he pled guilty to, you know, a plea of felony, but, you know, ultimately at the end of the day, you know, they were -- you know, they have ultimately turned to the government team, the prosecution team. >> all right. renato, thank you so much. we do appreciate your insights on a very big news story today. kenneth chesbro also taking a plea deal here in the georgia case. >> yeah, we do want to bring you some breaking news, though, right now. cnn's alex marquardt has that

for us. alex, this has to do with the hostages that were being held in gaza by hamas. >> reporter: yeah, boris and brianna, we understand that two of the american hostages who have been held by hamas are on their way out of the gaza strip. we've just learned this from a person who is familiar with the discussions as well as a diplomatic source, we have spoken to my colleague katelyn collins. as we know from the israelis there have been 200 hostages held by hamas since the horrific attacks inside israel on october 7th. what we understand from these two sources is that the two americans are a mother and a daughter, they are currently we're told with the red cross and heading south in the gaza strip. there are two crossings in southern gaza, one that goes into egypt, the other that goes into israel. so right now we're not sure about which country they will be going into. we're also unclear on the

identities of this mother and child, but we are told that they are being released on humanitarian grounds. that's according to a source that i spoke with because the mother is not in good health. now, boris and brianna, this has also been announced by hamas. a spokesman for the militant group said that the mother and daughter are also being released, they say, on humanitarian grounds, but also because they want to contest the claims being made by biden and what they call his fascist administration because they are false and baseless. so we have this mother and daughter, american citizens, who have been held by hamas for much of the past two weeks, now we understand with the red cross on their way out of gaza. guys? >> and, alex, to clarify quickly the next steps, is it clear exactly where they're headed next? is it going to be egypt or israel? what do we know? >> reporter: no, there are two

crossings, two gates in the southern part of gaza, one between gaza and the other one and the other rafah which we have been talking about so much because of the question about aid and that is where the aid would go from egypt into gaza. right now it is not clear, boris. certainly they were abducted in israel, we know that, so there is, of course, a good chance that they could be then taken back into israel, but at the same time it may just be easier for whatever reason, logistics, operationally, security, to have them go into egypt. but i think one of the important points is now they are with an independent party. they are with the red cross and so that is the best news. they are no longer, we understand, in hamas custody, although of course hamas does control the entire gaza strip. so this is not a done deal. things are still obviously extremely fluid, but here we have both our sources outside of

gaza as well as hamas themselves saying that these two americans are being released. >> all right. alex, i want to bring in kaitlan collins who is in tel aviv. the two of you reported this story out. kaitlan, is there anything -- and i don't even know if there is an answer to this at this point, but can we read into anything at this point if they're being released because the mother is in poor health, could this be an acknowledgment on the part of hamas that they need to perhaps release people who are not doing well? that they want people who maybe are in good health if they are going to be using them as pawns as they perhaps later try to utilize them in some kind of prisoner exchange? can we read into anything at this point? >> reporter: i think a lot of that remains to be seen. i mean, this was a big question once hamas had captured so many of these hostages and taken them into gaza after that october 7th attack. that was a question. if they are going to try to use

them as we had seen in the past when hamas had kidnapped an idf officer, that there was a lot of negotiation over that, it took years and in the end israel released, i believe it was about 1,000 palestinian prisoners in exchange for that israeli officer. so that was kind of the basis that people were looking at these hostages and the questions over what would happen here and we've heard israeli officials say they were not negotiating with hamas for an exchange for the hostages, but this news is incredibly significant. i mean, these hostages of course there has been an open question of what their fate would be, what would happen, especially as we are waiting to see that ground incursion potentially happen. and i can just tell you we have not heard anything from the prime minister's office here in tel aviv tonight on the release of these two american hostages that alex and i have reporting on. they have not confirmed it. we are waiting to see what they say about this. we also have not heard from the white house on this front, either. but i just want to tell you this is something that is still every single day here in tel aviv,

everywhere in israel, this is something that everyone is talking about. of course, shabot happens on friday evenings when family and friends get together and have dinner in the jewish faith. earlier we went to this ceremony for all of these families of these hostages and they had this incredibly long dining table set up with a seat for every person who is believed to have been taken hostage by hamas and, therefore, will not be with their families for dinner. it was an incredibly emotional moment. just this news in and of itself that two of them have been released, that they are alive, is something that is going to be hopeful to these families who are waiting for any peace, any scrap of information about their loved ones. so of course the question remains what happens to the other hostages, what does that look like going forward? i think there are still so many questions for these two american hostages that are being released, including where they are going to be released and, two, whether that's egypt, whether that's here into israel. those are still big questions

and we are still waiting for details over what that looks like and also, brianna, as you mentioned what it could mean for the others and how hamas plans to use them. one other thing i will say that we talked about last night, and this was in an interview with the "new york times," a hamas leader said they are not even in control over all the hostages, that there are other terrorist groups obviously in gaza and they did not have full control over them. obviously something that would complicate getting the release of these other hostages. >> kaitlan, please stand by. we want to bring in jim sciutto now. you just spoke to a long-time hostage representative. >> i spoke to jonathan franks, he's been in the release of the travis king case in north korea. i asked him what a release like this might indicate. he said given the number of hostages that hamas is holding to release two could be an attempt just to relieve the pressure somewhat. i mean, you are in the midst of a quite aggressive devastating israeli air campaign, threat of

a ground offensive, demands for humanitarian supplies, to relieve the pressure does not necessarily portend that all the hostages are going to be freed quickly. he makes the point, and kaitlan made this point as well, that in previous hostage exchanges with hamas they've demanded a great deal in return, particularly when it involves a soldier, for instance, 1,000 palestinian prisoners were released. it may be as you look at this that you have different kinds of hostages. here is a mother and daughter, apparently the mother in ill health. they can make the case that this is more of a humanitarian case for soldiers they might deal differently, for men of military age they might be -- they might deal differently as well. but, again, hamas is a group that takes hostages, hamas is a group that kills civilians, we don't need more evidence of that. a decision like this does not mean hamas has changed, it means that it sees something -- it wants something in return or sees this as being in their

advantage and perhaps there was some pressure applied from outside as well. >> alex, i understand you have some information about how this negotiation went down. >> reporter: well, jim is absolutely right in terms of the pressure being applied from outside. hamas is considered a terrorist organization of course by not justice real, but the united states as well and that means that those two countries don't have direct dialogue with hamas. so in this situation and this has been the case for much of the past two weeks since these 200 or so people were taken is that it was primarily qatar that was engaging in hamas. they are the main conduit for israel and the u.s. to talk to that militant group. qatar has several hamas leaders who live in their capital in doha. this really has been the portfolio that the u.s. has asked qatar to undertake. when secretary antony blinken was going to all of these different middle eastern countries he quickly went to qatar and that was because they have this direct line into hamas.

so here this is both according to the sources that we have spoken with, but also hamas themselves, the result of this negotiation between hamas and qatar. but no doubt the presence of these still around 200 hostages who will still be, you know, in the custody of hamas and other groups we understand or subgroups, all across the gaza strip, that is going to wildly complicate the efforts of the israeli military who of course we believe are going to go into gaza on the ground any day now. we've been talking about this sprawling network of tunnels throughout the gaza strip. we understand that the hostages may be in those tunnels, may be in the bunkers. as israel goes in to try to decapitate the hamas military and political leadership not only are they trying to minimize the civilian death toll on the palestinian side but they're obviously trying to make sure that nothing happens to these hostages and try to get them out. so while israel is saying they're not going to be negotiating with hamas over

these hostages, this effort by qatar will be ongoing to try to get more than just these two americans out. >> alex, i wanted to pick up off a point that kaitlan collins just made, a hamas spokesperson saying that the hostages were being held by different groups. it's also difficult to get a read on just how many hostages there are, not only because of that, but according to this spokesperson because of continued bombing in gaza. so does israeli intelligence, does u.s. intelligence have an actual number? do they know how many hostages there are still -- that are still being held captive and how many americans specifically? >> reporter: well, unlike with the death toll that we have sadly seen grow over the course of the past two weeks, the number of hostages has fluctuated. that, too, has grown and essentially, boris, and brianna, this is a process of deduction. the israelis and other countries who have citizens who have been missing, they have been able to figure out who has been killed,

who has surfaced, thankfully, and then who are still missing. and so they have been able to narrow that number down, but haven't put a specific point on t it is hovering, we understand, around 200. we should also make the point that not only are these hostages, we believe, spread out between hamas, palestinian islamic jihad, which is another iranian-backed ally group, but different groups within hamas is the belief. so that makes things extremely complicated. on the humanitarian front, and this humanitarian excuse or reason that hamas is giving for releasing these two americans, keep in mind, guys, that it is extremely difficult for militant groups, for anyone really, to have 200 prisoners. you have to keep them safe if you plan to use them as leverage, you have to keep them fed. it is a big lift. so if indeed this american

mother is not doing well, it is certainly a burden for hamas and perhaps in their interest to allow these two americans to leave and to hand them back over. but to kaitlan's earlier point, no doubt the -- hamas is going to try to use these prisoners as leverage, whether it's to release the hundreds of palestinians who are in israeli prisons, whether it's to get more aid into the country, whether it's to call for a ceasefire. these are all things that we've heard considered. certainly hamas is going to try to use them to their benefit. >> and, jim, i mean, the mother is reportedly here in poor health. let's just consider the state of hospitals right now in gaza. the state of medical care is awful. >> well, even the worst hostage takers and let's put hamas into that category, see the risks of having an american die on their hands. particularly if it's not, say, from a strike, right?

given that the hostages are distributed around gaza right now, but dies in their hands in ill health. so they would see the benefit, again, to them, and let's look at it through that prison, of releasing them because they just have less value, right? we've seen some precedent for that, for instance, in iran when americans held in iran had health issues, it made it more likely for them to be released. oftentimes still for something in return, but that iran knew they didn't want to have an american dying on their hands because they might face bigger consequences. it's not getting to their morality or their sense of altruism for that hostage but more a calculation that, wait a second, we may pay a heavy price for this if this american mother dies in our hands, in our possession. >> obviously the medical care that they will receive outside of gaza will be far superior. >> no question. no power, no water, even basic, you know, disinfectant supplies, all this kind of stuff in short supply there. >> jim, thank you so much. alex, thank you as well and to kaitlan as well in tel aviv. we appreciate it.

ahead, the house of representatives, it is paralyzed. here we are yet another day, no speaker and so apparently jim jordan's bid for the job is also at a standstill. republicans meeting as we speak on the hill and we are following the very latest.

>> jim, thank you so much. republicans meeting as we speak

happening right now more breaking news from capitol hill. house republicans are voting on a secret ballot election to determine whether jim jordan should stay in or drop out of the speaker's race after his failed third attempt to get enough votes. >> so let's get now to cnn congressional correspondent lauren fox. lauren, what happens next? i mean, i guess the question, too, is what is jim jordan's threshold at this point for public humiliation? was there going to be a fourth vote today because he keeps losing by more and more? >> reporter: yeah, the conference is really divided whether or not you are a supporter of jim jordan or not on whether or not he should keep

going with this fight. obviously some of his closest allies had been warning last night that they would just continue with votes throughout the weekend, but you also had people warning that if you're trying to get votes the way not to do it is to basically keep members in a pressure cooker and try and try to grind it out on the house floor. like you mentioned, right now behind closed doors troy knells told us that lawmakers are voting by secret ballot on whether or not jim jordan should continue with his bid. and that at the beginning of the meeting knells said that jim jordan said that this is a step that he wanted to take, but it's going to be really interesting what the numbers are on that secret ballot. we've already seen that repeatedly jim jordan continues to lose support on the floor. it was 20, then it was 22, today it was 25 and the expectation was that number was only going to grow. you know, there was a very revealing moment yesterday when jim jordan had a meeting with more than a dozen holdouts and

they essentially delivered the message to him that it's over. that there was nothing he was going to be able to do to change their minds. obviously that was reaffirmed on the floor today as those holdouts continued to vote against jim jordan. where does the conference go, though, if jim jordan drops out of this race? i think that that question is so uncertain. yesterday they were entertaining potentially empowering patrick mchenry temporarily but as they were in a conference meeting very similar to the one that is happening behind us today, they essentially decided as a conference that that was not the step that they wanted to take. so it's so hard to imagine where this goes from here if the decision by the conference is that jim jordan needs to step aside. >> so, lauren, what have we heard about how democrats are responding to all of this? are they still open to the possibility of empowering patrick mchenry if republicans strike a deal with them? >> reporter: i think a really revealing thing that we've seen

today is that hakeem jeffries, the democratic leader, has spoken not just once, but twice to reporters today making very clear and making himself available to get across the point that democrats in his words remain ready to work with republicans to find a bipartisan solution. reading between the lines it sounds like the message he's sending is that democrats remain willing and able to help republicans find some kind of path forward with the caveat, obviously, that they want to see israel and ukraine aid come to the floor, they also want to make sure the government doesn't shut down on november 17th when that deadline approaches. so i think the message from democrats today is we're still here, we're still willing to work, but obviously house republicans have to bring that resolution to the floor. they are likely the ones who would have to start that process and, like i said, yesterday after a three-hour conference meeting that got very heated, it

became clear that house republicans weren't quite ready to take that step. does that change today? i think that that's what we're going to be watching for. >> a lot of republicans adamantly against it even though jim jordan was in support of it. lauren fox from capitol hill, thanks so much. let's dig deeper with republican congressman dan muser of pennsylvania. thank you for being with us. obviously it's a secret ballot so you are open to not telling us how you voted, but should jim jordan continue running for speaker? >> well, i believe that it's really up to jim jordan and that was the pledge i made to him, so it was a secret ballot but i did vote yes, i did vote that jim has the right to remain there until he's voted out by majority, 50 plus one in our conference. that is taking place as we speak, perhaps we will know within the next two to five minutes. nevertheless, we've got to be starting the plan for plan b because as you mentioned there

are -- he is eroding votes on the house floor and there's a couple of possibilities, you know, from the business world i like having plans. this is plan a. plan b was considered, mchenry an extension there. very temporary until we elected a speaker so we could keep the lights on and we could keep working while electing a speaker. i don't see a big problem with that. but plan c is having a new slate of candidates and we have got to go back to the drawing board and start from square one and elect a speaker sooner rather than later. >> congressman, you told "politico" you would consider running for speaker. have you given more thought to that? do you want to make your pitch right now on cnn? >> well, i am giving strong consideration to it because i do want to be part of the new leadership as far as planning goes, not necessarily a participant, but if i have a opportunity to run i think i bring a unique perspective to t i'm from the business world, i served as revenue secretary and we need someone who truly is an

inclusionary leader and speaker, meaning that all participants -- we only have a five vote majority -- all participants need to feel that their word matters, that their vote matters, that their position matters, not special privilege, but anything that they receive needs to be in the interest of the conference and that can be done, i think i can bring that, particularly when it comes to legislation, when it comes to poll sir, when it comes to events, when it comes to fundraising, when it comes to communications. all of that should be much more inclusionary so people feel as if they have an authorship of the direction we are going on behalf of her constituents. that's what a good speaker would do and whether it's me or the next speaker, i want to make sure that that happens. >> congressman, that sounds a bit like an announcement. have you made that pitch to key players like kevin mccarthy or steve scalise or others? >> it's a little premature. i've had some conversations. i obviously wouldn't be

seriously considering this if i wasn't getting some encouragement. we will see. we will see where this vote goes and see what happens next. but there are some excellent other individuals that i would be supportive of if they become the lead candidate. so there's still a lot of consideration to take place. >> it does sound like you may on paper support jordan, but you are inclined to the reality that he is likely not going to become the next speaker. the math is against him. do you think he realizes that? i'm wondering what the conversations were like in the room if folks were directly telling him you are not going to be the next speaker. >> there are certainly some saying that and there are also some that say, hey, jim, you are a fighter, hang in there, maybe we can make a case that people appreciate and understand, but, you know, certainly the math as you stated is beginning to work against him. he still has 194 votes, that's more than anybody else would get right now, so we shall see.

it could be we could be turning the page and going to plan b or plan c and we will know for sure within the next few minutes. >> there is, congressman, a potential plan d out there and it's your colleague matt gaetz, he triggered all of this obviously, he says that eight republicans who voted to remove kevin mccarthy are willing to face consequences, potentially censure, even removal from the conference if the holdouts are willing to switch their votes and support jim jordan. do you think that would be enough to get him elected? >> no, i don't think it's going to persuade anyone. it's a little disingenuous, it's a little bit late. frankly, it was almost written as an admission of guilt as opposed to showing any contriteness or asking for forgiveness. look, those eight, some of them my friends, they're going to remain my friends, but i think they created severe problems for us, it's proven to be destructive. kevin mccarthy there was no good

reason to remove him. he was a good speaker. but that's in the past now and we're dealing with it, but, yeah, a letter like that i think was more self-serving than helpful. >> congressman, if you decide to put yourself forward as a candidate for speaker and you succeed and you become the next speaker of the house of representatives you have a difficult road ahead. i'm wondering how you would go about trying to heal the wounds within your hearth, self-inflicted wounds. >> bring people together, politics of inclusion, lay out a plan that everybody feels comfortable with, and that has authorship within and then begin executing and keep the information, the communication going and put -- put our members first, not have the speaker be first. we need more communications from our members, we need more activities, more ideas.

that's how you avoid mistakes. i learned that from business, by talking to a lot of customers, talking to the people that you represent, gain a consensus as well as possible, not everybody is going to get what they want, not even close, but that's how you avoid mistakes and you get the best policies possible. >> consensus seems very, very far in the distance, nevertheless, congressman dan meuser, thank you for coming on. please keep us posted if you decide to, in fact, nominate yourself as potential speaker. >> thanks. i wouldn't be nominating myself. >> someone else would do t you know what i mean. you get it. thank you so much, congressman. i appreciate it. >> i do. thanks, boris. >> of course. right now pivoting quickly, the search is on for a killer, officials are hunting for a person who fatally shot a judge in maryland. ahead we're going to talk to a judge whose own son was murdered by a man that was targeting her. stay with us.

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a maryland judge gunned down in his driveway and now police are looking for a man whose divorce case was never a circuit court judge andrew wilkinson. >> this was a targeted attack on judge wilkinson. we have identified pedro argote, 49, of frederick, maryland, as a suspect in this case. argote is not in custody and is considered armed and dangerous. the last night initially in the

preliminary investigation we had no idea the information was coming in, so we placed officers and troopers at the local judges here in the county at their residence, just as a precaution initially, and they stayed there through the night until this morning. >> i want to bring in judge esther solace who made it her mission to get a law passed to pro effect federal judges and their families after her son daniel was murdered by someone who was involved in one of her cases. journal, it seems like that was just yesterday so i can only imagine how that feels for you and i know that you are thinking of judge wilkinson's family today. this keeps happening. i mean, what do you worry is being missed at the state level here? >> well, listen, first i do -- my thoughts and prayers are going out to judge wilkinson, his family, his loved ones, his colleagues and his friends. my husband mark and i are just sending them prayers. but, you know, we need to push

for states -- a state court initiative across this country and the u.s. territories to enact laws, to enact laws that protect state and local judges. there are over 30,000 of them, like judge wilkinson serving, serving with distinction, with pride. judge the judge had been serving since january of 2020. i read all he wanted to do was serve his community. he did serve his community and now in the wake of it we are all mourning his death. something needs to be done across this great nation to protect judges at all levels and we cannot just sit back and continue to see these tragedies unfold and these families lives be impacted. i am just thinking of his wife and his two children and i know, i share with them, their pain. i feel it today. >> and as we understand it they

were witness to this, which is -- makes it all the more appalling as they deal with their grief here. part of the ned federal law that you helped spearhead, it allowed judges and their families to get their personal information taken down so it wasn't available. it also allowed them to access u.s. marshals to get kind of security analyzed and that kind of thing so that they can make sure that they were doing things the right way and being secure. what needs to be done for state judges in that regard? >> so for the federal laws it's a solid step in the right direction and it created obviously mechanisms for federal judges to seek the removal of the personally identifiable information, but what you need is belt and suspenders. you need states to do like new jersey did and enact daniel's law and daniel's law works to

also take that information off state websites. you know, state -- what we do and what we see here is that the state's agency websites will populate this information even if a judge is able to get it out or get it off a website. if we don't have the states working together with the federal government, we're not doing everything we can to protect judges by sealing the very information that, you know, the killer used to hunt down judge wilkinson. that's his personal home address. so what we need are states to enact laws like new jersey did, daniel's law, and to work sort of having those state laws work with the federal law to make sure that that information remains off of state databases. there is a lot we can do, there's a lot we are all working to do, but this is a painful reminder of what will happen if

we don't start pushing and advocating and actually begging state legislators to do what they need to do to protect their judges that are serving, doing what they want, doing what they desire to do, which is serve the public and the community at large. there's a way to do this, but it means that we work together, that we unite and we do what we can as a nation to ensure that our democracy stays sound. i am just, you know, again, so hopeful and yet so concerned because of the news obviously that has hit us all. we are continuing to pray and think of judge wilkinson's family. we will continue to do, mark and i and i know so many judges will continue to do what we can to ensure that all judges are safe

and secure and allowed to do their jobs without fear of reprisal, retribution or, god forbid, death. >> yes. and you provided a bipartisan blueprint and that is why we wanted to talk to you today for that. judge esther salas, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you, ms. keilar. have a good day. >> all right. you, too. so we are following some breaking news out of the middle east. sources say two american hostages are being released, that they actually have been released by hamas. they are in transit now on their way out of gaza. stay with cnn, we are live from israel just ahead.

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