standing up to china. ukraine and israel. that's the path forward that clearly gets bipartisan support, the attempt to decouple is an attempt to scuttle it and trump knee owe isolationist wing that wants to down play ukraine's and dangerous in terms of national security. >> john avlon, michelle price. great to have you. thanks so much. "cnn this morning" continues right now. ♪ israel saying there's a hamas commander center hidden under a children's hospital. >> hard to imagine how civilians endured the bombardment here. >> hospital must be protected. >> reporter: protecting the innocent that is what cease fire now means. ♪ >> president biden set to hold a highly-anticipated bilateral meeting with china's president xi tomorrow. >> there are so many other conflicts around the world right now, china does not want to be entangled in something else. >> abc news obtaining video connected to the georgia 2020 election subversion case.

>> he said the boss is not going to leave under any circumstances. >> there was a coordinated decision to potentially try to not leave power. that's terrifying. ♪ >> just three days now before government's bills come due. >> this is a bipartisan bankruptcy. we have to take this more seriously. >> speaker mike johnson is going to have to rely on democratic votes. ♪ good morning, everyone. as you can see there's a lot happening. we're so glad you're with us. >> the top thing on the agenda is this trip for the president. >> yes. >> with a massively consequential meeting at a very tenuous geopolitical time. president biden set to leave washington and fly to the west coast where on wednesday he will meet face to face with chinese president xi jinping. it's a hugely kwens kwen shall meeting at one of the most turbulent and fraught times of biden's presidency. facing multiple foreign crisis and sharp political head winds at home. >> right now president biden

juggling his support for israel's war against hamas and the escalation and humanitarian disaster in gaza. he is now saying gaza's largest hospital, quote, must be protected as israeli troops and tanks surround it. the hospital's director says conditions are catastrophic for the civilian sheltering inside with no food, water or milk for children and babies. the israeli government saying there is a hamas command center underneath the hospital. >> all that happening as the u.s. government is just three days away from a potential shutdown. a vote to prevent it is set for today. the measure does not, however, include any funding for israel or ukraine. we begin this hour with oren lieberman in tel aviv where families of hostages held by hamas are marching to jerusalem. oren, if there's one message you talk to people in that crowd that you're walking with now, what is it? >> reporter: they're chanting as we speak here, phil and poppy. bring them home now. they said it in hebrew and

english. their number one demand has nothing to do with feeding hamas, it's about finding some way, any way to bring 239 hostages home, from the very young to the elderly, making whatever deal is necessary, whatever accommodations to bring them home now. we also heard them chant bring all of them home. this is the demand. we're on the freeway, one of the main north/south highways through tel aviv. they're shutting down a couple lanes of traffic here and they'll march from tel aviv all the way to jerusalem, some 40 miles over the course of the next several days. before now, they spent a couple of weeks outside the defense ministry with a war cabinet met. there they tried to essentially get attention, make it known that their priority was bringing the hostages home and trying to force the government to make a deal. but they feel like that hadn't gotten anywhere. so now they've come to the streets. if you take a look behind me, you can see the names of the hostages, these are their

families here. they're marching all the way to jerusalem, and their goal is to meet with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and reemphasize the call to bring the families home, a tremendous sense of frustration over the lack of answers that they're getting. sure, they heard the statements. they've seen what netanyahu has said until now. they're palable feeling is that not enough is being done and isn't enough of essentially desire or demand to come to a deal that will free the hostages still held in gaza. >> you showed us the march from 2010 that ultimately put so much pressure on the israeli government they made that deal to get the soldier home. right? are these protesters hoping the same is true now and also what is the latest on the hostage negotiations? >> reporter: absolutely. you'll see from 2010 the family of one israeli soldier who was held in gaza for five years, they decided they were fed up with the government and prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who

was then also prime minister and marched all the way from northern israel to jerusalem. by the time they arrived at his office, they had thousands with him. that, too, is the idea here. there have been some rumors and reports of progress on hostage negotiations. president joe biden spoke with qatar over the weekend and they spoke about the need to release hostages. we also learned of a 3-year-old toddler, american citizen being held hostage, the youngest american there. and although there are some options here, possible deal to bring hostages home there is nothing substantive and that's part of what's feeding the frustrations here. the negotiations largely held in qatar with the qataris can talk to cia and hamas. >> asking for their family members held hostage by hamas to come home. we'll check back with you. thanks, oren. so as we had mentioned, president biden is making a really significant trip this

week. he's going to fly to san francisco. he will attend the apec leader's summit, an economic summit. but the big deal is tomorrow when biden holds a much-anticipated meeting with chinese president xi jinping. joining us now "washington post" foreign policy columnist josh rogin. great to have you on. president biden really deeply believes when you sit with someone face to face, you accomplish things you can't otherwise accomplish. and he's known xi jinping for a very, very long time. what is the best hope that the white house can get out of this after jake sullivan said over the weekend, look, we have to just reopen the lines of communication here. >> right. you're absolutely right, poppy, for his entire career president biden has believed that foreign policy is personal. that if he just gets into the room with these leaders, good or bad, that he can connect with them and make a relationship and convince them to do good things instead of bad things and make

deals that he otherwise wouldn't be able to make. funnily enough, that's what president trump thought and president trump pursued a very similar strategy with xi jinping. they signed a fentanyl deal in 2019. i don't know if you remember where xi jinping promised to curb the transfer of dangerous drugs to america in exchange for trade concessions. and trump thought their friendship would seal the deal. it didn't work out because xi jinping doesn't feel that way, the chinese system doesn't work that way and their policies will not change base on this one meeting. i hear they're going to sign another fentanyl agreement in exchange of economic cooling off and i'm sure both sides will present that as progress. but it's not. and that's the bottom line here is that they'll meet for four hours. they set a bar that's so low that communication is the goal and they will achieve that bar, but in terms of solving any of the problems in the u.s./china relationship, addressing china's economic aggression, military expansion, internal repression, it's problem with all of its

other neighbors who will also be there in san francisco, no real progress at all. so, you know, yeah. talking is better than not talking, as winston churchill, jaw jaw is better than war war. but if you set the bar that low, then that's not really an improvement in u.s./china relations. that's just, you know, stopping it from getting worse fast. >> which, i mean, honestly even if the bar is low to be able to exceed that, especially given where relations have been over the course of the last 11, 12 months, probably isn't a terrible thing. can you assess where the bilateral relationship is? it was so bad for so many months of 2023, seems to have cooled off a little bit. where is it actually stand? >> right. you're exactly right, phil. all you have to do is watch commerce secretary gina raimondo's interview with cnn's christiane amanpour, what gina

said, it's time to lower the temperature in the relationship. speaks to what you just said, phil. it was hot, now it will get cool. the problem is that the goal, in my view at least, the goal of u.s./china relations is not to have a low temperature, it's not to get along. the point is to protect u.s. values and interests and work with our partners to respond to the threats and challenges that china presents as it rises where they affect us. so, for the first two years of the biden administration, i think you had this really competitive policy led by people like tony blinken and jake sullivan, which is we'll solve some of these problems as being tough with chinese, not as rude as obnoxious as the trump people. still tough. year three, political cycle and now the ball has been handed to the economic officials which is what the chinese want and now you have janet yellen and gina raimondo saying, listen, we have to turn down the temperature. so, yeah, they will turn down the temperature but i worry that doesn't solve the problems. >> gina raimondo went a couple of months ago. >> sure. >> i think in her position five

years to go, saying it's important to be there. >> yeah. >> josh, just to talk about the big picture here. biden goes into this meeting with extraordinarily low poll numbers and multiple world crises, the israel-hamas war, dealing with the civilian casualties now both in israel but also now in gaza, dealing with the on going war on ukraine and iran's 52 attacks on u.s. service members and posts now since october 7 th. you think about the relationship between china and iran, how does he navigate that tomorrow? >> one of the useful things sitting down with xi jinping, you can talk about the other useful issues, iran, hamas war, all of it. china is the second biggest economy in the world, second biggest military in the world. they deserve to be treated with respect. don't get me wrong. we want good registlations with china. it takes two to tango. what you'll have is the president of the united states tell xi jinping, we want you to

tell iran to stop being so bad. tell putin not to be so bad in ukraine. xi jinping will have his own list of grievances, some are valid. both sides it makes political sense to have this meeting. go back to their countries and say, hey, we talked. you know, i told them the tough messages and i got an agreement that things are going to get better. and it makes sense politically. i get why biden is doing this. i don't think it's bad to talk. that's not what i'm trying to say. all i'm trying to say is this is a political exercise more than a diplomatic exercise and they both get something politically out of it. but the structural problems in the u.s./china relationship are only going to get worse and i think the relationship is just going to get worse before it gets better. but you know, let's be optimisting, maybe they'll surprise us and come up with something i can't predict. >> we will take that glass half full at the end, josh rogin, appreciate it. thanks very much. >> any time. for the very first time supreme court has adopted new self-imposed ethics rules, but who is going to enforce them? that is the big question. growing concern around

donald trump's rhetoric about a potential second term as president as one of his former georgia co-defendants says she was told trump never intended to leave the white house after his 2020 loss.

the supreme court of the united states is only court, maybe the only federal agency that doesn't have an enforceable code of ethics. these nine people are acting as if they're above the law, making critical decisions that change america and won't concede when there's a clear conflict of interest. >> after months of pressuring the supreme court to adopt a code of ethics, senate judiciary chairman dick durbin is getting what he asked for. outlining recusal from cases, acceptance of gifts and speaking at various events. pressure had been mounting for the supreme court to act after a series of embarrassing news stories alleged that judges skirted ethics regulations when accepting luxury trips. >> in april, durbin invited chief justice john roberts to testify before his committee. roberts declined, citing the

separation of powers and calling testimony of the chief justice before congress, quote, exceedingly rare. now, that the code has been announced, durbin says he's not sure it goes far enough. >> all of these are important steps, but they fall short of what we could and should expect when supreme court issues a code of conduct. the court's new code of conduct does not appear to contain any meaningful enforcement mechanism to hold justices accountable for any violations of the code. it also leaves a wide range of decisions up to the discretion of individual justices, including decisions on recusal from sitting on cases. >> the code does not specifically lay out how it would be enforced, who would enforce it, our cnn senior supreme court analyst is with us now. durbin is right in the fact that there's these lack of enforcement mechamechanisms. but critics say this is a co-equal branch. >> that's right. good morning, poppy and phil.

yeah. you know, the supreme court is really walking a fine line here. it really needed to answer to the public, answer to the congressional critics, but also to preserve its own sort of integrity in its space. what it's done is for the first time put some of these rules in writing. at least told us what it believes its obligations are. but, to senator durbin's point and your point earlier, poppy, there is no external enforcement mechanism and also more importantly nothing internal. there's nothing internal that they've set up that would allow a channel for -- for any complaints to come in for the justices themselves to even air some of those complaints. so, i think that you're right when you refer to the separation of powers and the chief justice's interest in trying to make sure that they preserve their own integrity, but they still need to sort of answer that question of if something goes wrong, if a complaint is

even made outside, can -- will the justices answer it in some way? i do have to say for an institution that doesn't like to engage in much of a dialogue on things beyond cases, this was a first step in a dialogue. >> joan, to that point, you had some great reporting on behind the scenes of the process to reach this outcome, which didn't seem preordained and a couple times over the last couple months didn't seem possible. what changed? >> well, i think it's been the drum beat of pressure on the outside. you're right, phil. earlier this year i learned that the chief was having a hard time getting even a majority let alone unanimity for a formal written code among the justices. but i think just the pressure kept building. there were so many news stories, as you mentioned, about justices off bench behavior. you know, lavish trips, other gifts that justices were receiving from wealthy conservatives that, you know, just raised a lot of questions

about what kind of rules they do abide by. and i think it was important for them to put something on paper and the chief justice obviously used some of that outside pressure to make his case within the court. and as i say, this is a significant first step. it's just that it raises a question of how meaningful it will be and they did, at the end of their report, refer to the fact that they would be looking to see if additional steps should be taken. >> yeah. that was an interesting point that was striking, where this leads. >> joan, we appreciate you. as always, thank you. >> thank you. >> everyone should read -- >> i could keep talking. >> you know we love this, joan. everyone should read joan's new analysis. it's up on cnn.com. president biden leaves for california today set to hold a highly-anticipated bilateral meeting with chinese president xi jinping. >> this as a mass information campaign run by the chinese government to silence critics of

beijing. >> i was instantly flooded with messages asking meme to kill myself.

♪ president biden will head to san francisco in just a couple of hours. he is set to meet face to face with chinese president xi jinping, that will happen tomorrow. and it comes as cnn uncovers a

campaign of online intimidation that can be tracked back to the chinese government. u.s. residents who criticize beijing are targeted and harassed with thousands of posts or emails like the ones you're seeing. donie o'sullivan joins us now with this reporting. >> reporter: that's right, poppy. just ahead of this meeting between president biden, president xi, we're finding there's an online harassment campaign targeting americans on u.s. soil and it's being run by the chinese government. have a look. >> i feel really, really afraid. >> they use hateful words or threatening words. >> they will make life very uncomfortable for those who speak ill of china. >> reporter: they are here on american soil, thousands of miles from beijing, but still being hounded and harassed by the chinese government. >> i was instantly flooded with messages, asking me to kill myself. >> reporter: this is a writer

for the new yorker. she's been targeted with a wave of online harassment since she covered pro-democracy protests in hong kong four years ago. more than 12,000 tweets calling her a traitor. >> i was caught so off guard and i wasn't sure if it was a coordinated effort. >> it is a coordinated effort of fake and anonymous accounts and it's called spam. >> depending on how you measure it, it's the biggest disinformation the world has ever seen. >> professor from clemson's media forensics hub has tracked this for years. it's only now been revealed that the vast disinformation campaign is tied to the chinese government. >> thousands and thousands of messages repeated over and over again. >> reporter: cnn review of court documents, social media reports and interviews with victims reveals a massive, relentless campaign of intimidation by the chinese government, targeting people on u.s. soil. >> they told me they will kill

me if i don't delete my youtube. >> reporter: posts pro-democracy youtube video criticizing the chinese government. to hit back, the chinese trolls hit back. >> they cover people's eyes so the chinese people cannot see the reality. >> reporter: a vast campaign of intimidation that even employs artists to create original illustrations to mock and harass its victims. >> this is not just some guy in his basement. >> no. it's clearly very sophisticated effort. >> i'm often staggered at the number of platforms where we come across their content. >> reporter: some of the people behind this are these chinese police officers, according to the u.s. department of justice. the doj charged 34 chinese police officers for using social media accounts to threaten, harass and intimidate specific

victims in the united states. the indictment is full of pictures allegedly taken from inside the special trolling unit, showing laptops, phones and other equipment used as part of the operation. a spokesperson for the chinese embassy in washington, d.c. said the doj's allegations are politically motivated and have no factual evidence or legal basis. >> yeah. they tried to shut me up. they tried to silence me, to minimize my voice. >> reporter: this gentleman spent nearly five years in a chinese prison for his pro-democracy work. now he's an american citizen and campaigns from here. >> they started to make noises -- >> reporter: at the height of covid in 2021, he organized a zoom meeting for pro-chinese democracy activists in the u.s. but chinese police officers, broke into the zoom and shut it down. >> that time i was myself even shocked. i said, what? the ccp don't allow us to have a

meeting, overseas meeting. >> reporter: the u.s. state department warned that the chinese government is spending billions of dollars annually on foreign information manipulation efforts. and if it goes unchecked, it will reshape the global information landscape. >> communist party's bloodstream is propaganda, repeating it over and over again and trying to get everyone to repeat that same point of view and reject alternatives. that's in the dna of communist parties. >> one of the experts in the piece, he was staggered when he could see the scale, the reach of this. do we have any idea of how wide that reach is? >> yeah. look, you saw in the piece there so often time wes talk about these troll operations, we can never put faces to the people who is behind it. you saw there that some of these people have been indictmented. they are chinese police officers that go to work everyday in beijing but not patrolling the streets. their job is clock in and clock out is to control the internet. so many accounts, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of accounts actually that have been created over the course of

this campaign. and many ways they're remarkably ineffective when you talk about that there's this full time team behind it in that we're not necessarily seeing these accounts go viral in the way that maybe russian disinformation efforts might have done prior to 2016 election. and that is something that the social media companies really stress is that there's a lot of these accounts but there's isn't a lot of engagement. but as you can see there, there's another purpose to these accounts which is to intimidate specific people and no matter who you are, if you're getting tens of thousands of tweets like these americans are getting, that is scary. that will have an effect on you. >> on u.s. soil. donie o'sullivan, thank you. great piece. >> it's crunch time on capitol hill, just three days left to avoid a government shutdown. where things stand ahead of today's critical vote. and wall street today bracing for a critical new gauge of where inflation stands. what the report is expected to reveal and what it will mean for the fefed's rate h hikes. ststay with usus.

♪ house speaker mike johnson facing the first major test of his leadership with only three days left to avoid a government shutdown. today, the house is set to vote on johnson's two-step plan as gop hardliners warn him against working with democrats. but at least eight republicans are against the plan going to vote against it. eight have announced it publicly. they're known as continuing resolutions meaning he can't rely on a simple majority in a procedural vote. this effectively forces him to work with democrats and lots of democrats to push the bill through with a two thirds majority. just like his predecessor, kevin mccarthy, at least when it comes to a clean, continuing resolution was trying to do before he was removed.

c cnn's lauren fox joins us now. to that point, lauren, there are no spending cuts. i'm trying to figure out what's so different about this other than they are staggered dates than what kevin mccarthy got kicked out of the chair for? >> yeah, phil, this sounds familiar because this plan looks a lot like what house speaker kevin mccarthy had to do just a little over a month ago. house republicans finding themselves in really the exact same place they were in. and privately the argument that speaker johnson has been making to his conference is that we did waste significant time on a speaker's race trying to replace former speaker kevin mccarthy and that that really ate away at our ability to try to pass more and more individual spending bills to put us at a place where we could have a broader debate about spending with democrats at this moment. so the argument comes from the speaker is, let's sort of live to fight another day in january and again in february, when these staggered dates come to

pass. let's not have this fight now. but as you noted, there are at least eight house republicans who are opposed to this plan. we expect that there are likely even more than that. and that is why johnson is going to have to go forward with this plan where he, like you noted, is not just going to need a handful of democrats. he's going to need a lot of democrats. and we're going to get a sense today as democrats are huddling behind closed doors, as to whether or not democrats are going to be prepared to give him that support. in some ways they held back a little bit. they wanted to see what johnson could do on his own. so it will be really important to see what kind of consensus democrats can get out of their private caucus meeting that will happen at 9:00 a.m. today on capitol hill. but look, the reality is no one wants a shutdown. so while a lot of democrats are a little frustrated, a little annoyed at this idea of having to have stacked dates for a potential another shutdown showdown in january and february, they also realize they had a big victory in the fact that there are no spending cuts that are included here.

they also got an extension of foreign bill policies passed under the democratic president and democratic leadership in the house. so, this is a victory for democrats. it just doesn't look exactly like a perfect victory for them on paper. phil? >> i'm pretty sure everybody is cognizant that next week is thanksgiving as well and that might have something to do with the amenable nature of folks. we'll have to see. lauren fox, keep us posted. thank you. >> phil, you're so cynical. no one wants to go home -- >> yes, i am. >> thanksgiving. take a look at the economy here. stock futures pretty flat this morning, just ahead of the release of the monthly consumer price index, that's of course a key inflation measure. the october report will come out before the opening bell in less than an hour. it's expected to show a headline inflation rate of 3.3% that is down from 3.7% in september. according to bloomberg. americans did pay less for gas last month. the fed has not yet said it will end its historic rate increases.

it did fall pretty sharply last month. well, over a dozen federal agencies sounding the alarm on the impacts of climate change in america. the dire new details from their report just out this morning. despite the bleak outlook, one city known for extreme weather may have some answers on climate change. our bill weir has the latest. bill, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, poppy. that's right. climate change is affecting everybody everywhere. and some places more than others as you can see. but there are climate haven, science tells us. and i'll give you a hint on the biggest one closest to where we are right now. i'll talk to you in just a few.

new this morning, a stark new report from more than a dozen federal agencies shows that the impacts of global warming are being felt in every corner of the u.s. things are projected to get worse over the next decade. cnn's bill weir join uses from niagara falls. on this report, there's never a ton of good news in this space. but what stood out to you in this congressionally mandated report? >> reporter: well, this is the first time, phil that they've really looked at the economics, the cost of this phenomenon right now. and it is knee buckling when it comes to the expense. we're 25 billion dollars storms just this year. projected 25% decrease in worker productivity for anybody who works outside in future summers. it is expensive. it is unfair. the people with the smallest carbon footprints are suffering the most. but, there is so much hope given the fact that we have all the tools for our survival right here.

and they're the most expensive -- or inexpensive options in human history. on shore wind and solar panels with batteries are the cheapest forms of energy now. humanity has ever known. but the sluggish shift away from the fuels that burn, oil, gas and coal means it's only happening about 1% a year, needs to happen at 6% a year to avoid the maximum pain. >> reporter: there's an old joke that tells us there are only two seasons in buffalo, winter and the fourth of july. but, in the age of global warming, the city wants you to know that now their weather is going from punch line to lifeline. thanks to its goldie locks location amid the great lakes, buffalo has never reached 100 degrees. >> you get on average about three days in the summer get to be 90 degrees or higher. >> yeah. >> if you're in phoenix, you're looking at that and saying, what the heck are you calling that a heat wave. >> that's mild. >> reporter: professor did a

deep dive of the records, the buffalo state climatologists was shocked to find no increase in droughts or floods. >> there was this epic snowstorm last winter. >> yes. >> really deadly and deinstructive. >> blizzard of '22. >> that's not an indication -- >> no. we had the blizzard of '77, '85, '81, blizzard of 36. i'm not saying our severe weather will disappear. it's still there. snow amounts have remained steady in all of this. doesn't seem to be getting worse. that's the key herwe'll still h like the wind and everything else, but we're -- it won't get worse. >> it's ironic and telling act the world we now live in, that a place sort of associated with cold jokes -- >> right, right. >> and super bowl losses could be a huge winner relative on a hotter planet. >> that's the way we look at it as well. there was a professor from harvard that was talking about the effects of climate change and listed some cities that would be considered climate

refuges in the future. and buffalo was one of the cities on the list. and so, we just leaned into it. we are going to not only call ourselves a climate refuge city but do the kinds of things that are required to be welcoming with migration, with new americans coming here, with seeing the first population growth in the city since the 1950 census. >> reporter: after hurricane maria, 3,000 puerto ricans became permanent buffalonians. >> it was hard. when the hurricanes start, we move to the second floor, we move to the first floor. >> reporter: including anthony matte, now a teacher's assistant. >> i remember when i moved here, people told me, oh you know where you're going? because in puerto rico, it's always warm. it's hot. i move here like in winter. but i like it.

it's good. >> reporter: did you consider other spots? or what was it about this place that appealed to you the most? >> the great lakes, the fresh water, the projections of climate change look like buffalo might have a climate more like new york, philadelphia, towards the end of the century. >> reporter: wild fire smoke helped drive holly jean buck and her family out of southern california. as a climate scientist, she says she was welcomed with open arms and employment. >> but really the energy of the people, people who are really forward thinking in western new york and new york state about what opportunities there might be in clean energy and clean tech and how to build, you know, those solutions in ways that are good for communities. >> reporter: so it's not just the latitude, it's the attitude. >> yeah, exactly. >> reporter: right? and the welcoming spirit of a place, i suppose. >> the city of good neighbors they call it. >> reporter: oh, nice, nice. >> yeah. >> reporter: you found that to be the case? >> i have, totally.

>> reporter: yeah? >> yeah. >> reporter: they're a little depressed in buffalo after last night's loss to denver, but in 2019 the mayor of buffalo declared that city an official climate refuge. and as you saw there, some people are taking them up on that offer there. the population is growing as the belly of the planet around the equator warms up, the southern latitudes in the united states will become increasingly harder to live in and so the upper tiers looking like it's more advantageous, much better to be on a defrost setting than on a broil. phil, poppy? >> no question about it. that is so fascinating. i also hope, bill, that wolf blitzer was not there to hear your criticism of the buffalo bill's record thus far this season. thank you, bill. great reporting. >> reporter: you bet. you getbet. >> reporter: ahead for us, new statements on camera.

what their remarks could mean for that trial ahead for the president. and also news organizations around the globe asking for more of their journalists to be allowed on the ground to report in gaza. it is key for transparency. we'll bring you the latest on that and the toll the war is having on our journalist colleagues in the field.

trial against former president trump and the trump organization resflums in lower manhattan.

trump's team expect today call a tax attorney to the stand today. >> daepgs from one of trump's criminal trials is garnering lots of off tension. video of former trump lawyer jenna ellis talking to prosecutors. ellis describes a conversation they had with top trump aide scav aino in 2020. >> he said to me in an excited tone, we don't care and we are not going to leave. i said, what do you mean? he said, the boss, meaning president trump, and everyone understood the boss. he said the boss is not going to leave under any circumstances. we are just going to stay in power. and i said to him, well, it doesn't work that way, you realize? he said, we don't care. >> joining us to discuss is alyssa griffin, podcast host josh barro and "new york times"

national political reporter herndon, i want to start with you. can you describe -- this isn't some random guy. he is literally everywhere always with the president since the campaign in '15. >> yes. one of his right-hand men. he was deputy chief of staff in the final stretch of the trump administration. his office was in the outer oval office. he was the person, trump would say get me dan, help him craft tweets. i think jenna ellis is going be a formidable witness in georgia. what she says echoes almost directly what mark meadows, the then-white house chief of staff, said to me december 3. i said i am planning to resign and he said with another aide present, what if i told you we weren't going to leave office and i tendered my resignation the next day? i shared that with the

congressional committee. at the highest of the trump wows, there was a plan to try to stay in power at any cost. >> this really tracks trump's comments about vermin over the weekend. tracks the great reporting done by cnn, by "the washington post," "new york times" about what a second trump term would look like according to trump and those around him. the trump team is pushing back, calling that speculative and theoretical. phil made the point, just go on the website. look where they stand and let's not forget what trump said in this univision interview last week. >> something that allows the next party, i mean, if i happen to be president and i sea somebody who is doing well and beating me badly, i say go down and indict them mostly that would be, you know, they would be out of business. they'd be out. they'd be out of the election. >> tells you who they are -- >> exactly. the reason this is kind of

landing is because trump laid out his own stakes of -- what his next term would look like. it is more authoritarian, escalated rhetoric, using the federal target to target political opponents. that was hallmark of the trump-era the first time. we are seeing someone who has said i am not going to spend the first couple years playing nice with washington like last time. i am going to use this as the premise of my administration. when he talked about retribution in the speech, that's the undergirding theme we have seen the trump campaign lay out in this kind of gop primary and i think it's setting in for folks. you reason you see the nikki haleys or other kind of raising is because there is a recognition this version of donald trump, the same character from last time, has a kind of clear-eyed rhetoric that's in promises and authoritarian bend to this next version of himself and i don't think that should be ignored. >> he has a record and proposals going forward and the rhetoric. sorry, i am not going to ask

about reciprocal tariffs. but to that point, there is, you know, the biden folks complain you are not focused on policy, you are not doing health care, drug pricing. there is a comparative in terms of policy that the trump team has up on their website. he talks about. is that something that will break through at some point or is it going to be just talking about what he says all the time? >> i assume abortion is going to be a more central part of the campaign. and we seem to be setting-up for an election that is a referendum election on joe biden which is shocking -- >> because it's not on trump. >> how could you have something that involves trump that is not about donald trump? a theme of our politics the last eight years is donald trump blocking out the sun. this campaign is about joe biden and donald trump -- >> to that point, a great point. why? >> i think a substantial part is he is not on twitter.

donald trump, i -- whether this is a conscious choice on his part, and i think it is, not trying to drieft news cycle the way he did day after day for years. >> i think this is turning to the point about people laying out what the reality of the next trump administration would look like as the primary starts happening, he gets closer to the nomination and as the legal calendar really puts that attention back on him next year, i think right now it is about joe biden and the democrats won't like that. they would want this to be about the kind of stakes and alternative. >> and this "new york times" reporting was incredible about what they want do in terms of locking up illegal immigrants, mass deportations, which the trump team directed those reporters to stephen miller, then the campaign realized you are going to lose independents, moderates, tried to walk it back. get ready for that to be a common theme. suzie wild knows what she is

doing. the campaign is like, oh no, look no further. he is not constrained by running for re-election and the thing that kept guardrails when he had the craziest ideas people like myself, like, you've got to win an election again. you can't do this. that was the only way you could communicate something. he will not have that in a second term. >> nikki haley who has seen sort of a steady rise. nowhere where trump in the polls, but her language about trump has remained pretty subdued, pretty muted in terms of criticism of him. now tim scott drops out. many people look does that help nikki haley. do you think her language and how she talks about trump and these policies change going forward? can she be the one trying to take him on? >> the difficulty is that the usual set of criticisms you might lodge against donald trump are unimpressive to the voters. it's not that they stupid and forgot to atact the frontrunner.

it's difficult to come up with a strategy for to go that that will actually cause you to pick up votes in the campaign. tim scott dropped out. the polls found his support splitting in thirds among ron desantis, nikki haley and donald trump. so i think that the problem of consolidating remains serious but the problem is that desantis and haley have a very different hitch for being non-trump candidates similar to ted cruz and marco rubio in the 2016 campaign. a lot of people for desantis are not there because they want anything other than trump and if they are forced to choose between trump and haley they choose trump. so i think it remains difficult to consolidate. >> nikki haley needs donald trump's voters if she wants to have a shot. she has to peel some of those people off. and the base took pride in the kind of working class switch that donald trump brought. there is real kind of serious i think things s