63 years ago today, a little black girl walked into a school where she wore a dress, a sweater and a white bow in her

hair. she carried what looked like a briefcase for her school work. and at 6 years old, she also carried the fate of american history. ruby bridges entered that all white school in louisiana while being shouted at by angry mobs, racist taunts, hateful insults. >> i remember the chant, two, four, six, eight, we don't want to integrate. >> some of these people were very threatening. they were going to kill her. they were going to hang her. >> one protester's sign read "all i want for christmas is a clean white school." another held up a miniature coffin with a black doll inside. >> i use toad have nightmares about the box. so those are the days that i distinctly remember being really, really frightened. >> for years had fought against the supreme court's ruling to outlaw segregation in schools. that ruling just three months before ruby entered the world in which she was not welcomed by

all. and that day, and all the days that followed, ruby was isolated in the principal's office. she ate lunch alone. she was the only child in her class. she wasn't allowed to join recess with other children. only one teacher had agreed to be with her, as white parents refused to have their kids in the same room. . >> the lesson that i took away that year in an empty school building was that none of us know anything about disliking one another when we come into the world. it is something that's passed on to us. so every time i see that, i think about the fact that i was an innocent child that knew absolutely nothing about what was happening that day. >> ruby's innocence and eventually her pain is a good reminder that for a suffering world both at home and abroad, courage can win, even if in the tiny shoes of just one little

girl, and on one particular november day. and laura, my daughter has a book. it's called lady legends alphabet. and b is for ruby bridges. and i'm grateful for that today and every day. over to you. >> you know, i am too. norman rockwell's painting hung in my dining room as a child my entire life, passed down to my sister jennifer. now it's in her home. i can tell you, there is not a moment that goes by when i was a student, one of a very few number of black students in any of my schools ever in my entire life growing up. and i always thought what it was like. and i am forever grateful for that little girl and woman she became. i'm so glad you honored her today. thank you. >> thanks. have a good show. every time you think that they could not go lower, they do. tonight on "laura coates live" -- you know, i would say

the u.s. congress acting like schoolyard bullies, but that might actually be an insult to schoolyard bullies. in this corner kevin mccarthy who apparently still nursing a bruised ego over losing the speakership may or may not have delivered a very sharp elbow to the kidneys of one tim burchett, who, surprise, voted to remove mccarthy as speaker. >> got elbowed in the back, and it kind of caught me off guard because it was a clean shot to the kidneys. i turned back and there was kevin. for a minute i was what the heck just happened? and then i chased after him, of course. >> if i hit somebody, they would know i hit them. if i kidney punch him, he'd be on the ground. >> is he 12? come on. i'm not going to swing at the low pitches. he knows what he did. and he's -- suffers the consequences. >> if i hit someone, you know i hit them? an elbow to the kidneys.

ladies and gentlemen, your elected representatives at work this evening. and in this corner, you've got senator markwayne nmullin, who today challenged a witness to a fistfight during a senate hearing. i repeat, a fistfight. and it may not have been an idle threat. the senator is a former mixed martial arts fighter after all. with the way things are now, i mean, who knows? >> you want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. we can finish it here. >> okay, that's fine. perfect. >> you want to do it now? >> i'd love to do it right now. >> stand your butt up then. >> you stand your butt up. >> you don't run your mouth unless you're going to answer the call. i don't even remember the last time i got in a street fight. i used to get paid to fight. >> this is actually real life, by the way. and did you happen to hear about the oversight chairman james comer who today called congressman jared moskowitz a smurf that was also by the way on your dime during a hear.

ing. >> that is bullshit. you look like a smurf here going around and doing all this stuff. >> the american people have the same question. why should they belief you? >> you've already been proven a liar. >> who has proven me a liar, you? >> yes. >> i personally would have broken out into the la la la la la la la moment, because i'm just saying i was a child of the '80s and remember the smurfs quite well. but smurfs, fistfights, kidney punches, well, mitch mcconnell, you remember him, he sounds like he is a little bit sick and tired of all of it. >> a smurf. >> very difficult to control the behavior of whoever is in the building. >> because apparently it's child care. apparently so. some members of congress seem to have forgotten how to do the jobs that we elected them to do. instead, i guess we just have to expect more and more of the foolishness. i mean, if this were fiction, it

would remind you maybe of something like this. >> hey, hey, hey, that's my baby to kiss. >> excuse me, excuse me. >> oh, you don't take a swing at my hair. you little -- ♪ my country 'tis of thee ♪ >> that's ridiculous. and yet you heard what i said leading up to it, right? got a lot to talk about tonight with men who know the house from the inside, former congressman fred upton and joe walsh. no one is punching babies, fellows. however, this is really absurd to think about. >> they used to use my initials.

>> it's fred upton, everyone, fyi. you figure it out. go ahead. family show. >> it's cable. so it's okay. don't have the fcc stuff. but it's a mess. and we know both these guys. both joe and i know these guys. one guy you don't want to be in a fight with is markwayne mullin. we've seen him in the gym. he is a kickboxer. that's not the guy you want to pick a fight with. >> he told me once his name is not mark, it's not wayne, it's markwayne. >> that's right. >> i remember. >> i'm fred, but he is markwayne. >> he took almost his wedding ring off, you know. >> he did take it off. >> and you heard senator bernie sanders, "you're a senator." >> laura, none of it is issues-based. mccarthy and burchett getting in a fight. and comer calling the congressman a smurf. none of it is based on any

issues. it's all performative. it's all to have a show like this talk about them. it's a party, laura, that to my mind, my former party. >> both were republicans, that knows they're losing the house. they don't stand for anything. and we're going have a year of this just lashing out at each other. >> that's counterintuitive. on the one hand, if you want to have the moral high ground and be seen as the adult in the room and be able to go against the democrats and say they don't know how to govern. they don't know what they're doing, the last thing you want is people to know this is happening. i assume it's happening, but it's happening in broad daylight. when you logistic at this right now, are you seeing this happening in your tenure as well? >>, no it wasn't like this. i'm not sure that the kevin thing was all that strong. it was like little jab. but it wasn't -- it wasn't a cross-check in the -- of the

blackhawks or the capitol. >> he said if i hit someone, you would know. >> whoa have. if he had hit him, he would have known it. kevin a s a lot bigger than both than a us. >> mccarthy denies this ever happened. said did not happen. in burchett said it's the sad end to mccarthy's career. listen to this. >> i'm just -- it's just disappointing that that's the way he is going to end his career, spiraling out of control. and it's disappointing because we should be dealing with the budget and all these other things that i said that are really in a crisis stage right now. and people like himself, it's all about them and their childish activities. obviously the american people are watching this. on the one hand, if it were will ferrell and zach galifianakis. shouldn't we be laughing? >> no, because it's utter dysfunction. but again, laura, republicans

signalled to us even before they took control of the house that it was going to be this way. they were going to investigate everything. they wanted to impeach joe biden, impeach every democrat. it -- so they signal to us that these two years were going to be chaotic. it's not a surprise that they're now fighting with each other. >> and they can't get anything done. i mean, instead of taking like halloween -- they had halloween off. and we've been in ten weeks working, i don't know, their weeks are like three or four day. >> welcome to the rest of the world who works all the time. >> and meanwhile, they knew about this november 17th deadline for what, six, seven weeks now? so now they're going punt it into next year. they're probably not going to do a lot between now and next year. maybe a day or two in terms of legislative votes. they have a couple of things they have to do like the national defense authorization bill. but in essence, we aren't going to see what the next version

look likes until they come back in january. it's going to be the same thing as it was this week. >> there was almost a fistfight on the floor when mccarthy first went through the process of becoming speaker. so this is -- they've been on this road. >> is part of this because there is not the well-known and strongest of leaders heading their republican party right now in the house? there is no -- >> the margin of control is so slim. and you have this rule that kevin agreed to, mccarthy, to vacate the chair with one vote. you know, i was a member of the problem solvers caucus. we actually changed the rule. we forced nancy pelosi to accept a change, which kevin then reversed when he became speaker. so literally tomorrow, burchett or somebody else, the argument against kevin was oh, he worked with the democrats to pass the cr, one more vote than they did in september. whose vote was it? mike johnson. he was a no vote in september and a yes vote this afternoon.

so is it going to be the same standard? are they now going to have one person say we're going have a vote to vacate the chair, at some point whether it be this week or january? >> and laura, the elephant in the room, whose party is this? this is trump's party. they learned from him. they imitate him. they emulate him. this is what he does. >> well, i guess they would say bring it then. that moment, fred upton, i'll use your full name. and joe walsh, thank you so much. so do we just have to, i guess, resign ourselves this kind of behavior from our members of congress and other elected officials? i'll talk about next a professor of history in american studies at yale university, joanne freeman. she is the author of "the field of blood: violence in congress and the civil war." how is that for a cliff-hanger, america? we'll be right back. actually, talk to her now. good. okay. i don't want to go to break. i want to talk to her now, because honestly, when i look at

all that's happening right now, and we're seeing everything that's happening in the world, the name of your book gives me a little bit of pause. one thing is you didn't just write it after this week. it wasn't like it's here right now when you see all that is going on in congress. instead, any time it's relevant again, it tells me this has happened before, which is scary to think about. you heard tim burchett, mccarthy's incident, juvenile at best. maybe more nefarious at worst. what do you think when you saw this? >> well, certainly, speaking of someone who did write a book about physical violence in the u.s. congress in the 1830, 1840s and 1850s, there was a lot of physical violence at that time. so maybe part of what i was thinking today is all of this happened in one day. that in and of itself is not typical. but i suppose really what it made me think of, in a sense, is something i concluded from the work i did on my book which is what we're seeing is reflective of the state of affairs in

congress today in the republican party and the state ofof the nation. by that i mean, if you think about what political parties typically can do, one of the things that they can do in one way or another is enforce discipline of some kind. party discipline. keep the members in line. keeping them from perhaps punching each other or maybe shoving them in a hallway or throwing out names in a hearing. another thing the political parties typically can do is they have an agenda or a mission or a policy that draws them together and unites them and enables them to work together. and again, tamps down some of the kind of behavior that we saw today. so part of what went through my mind as a historian is well, we're looking at the impact of a party that is not a functional party. and without all of the things that a party does, all of the control that it can enforce, we're seeing all of this flying off at all sides as to

uncontrolled behavior in congress. >> if only congress had something to do with their time, they might be distracted enough to not fight one another. it's absurd to think about that maybe being a solution. and you're right. when you think about you ought to have more things than this going on and policy disputes, certainly, back stabbing, figuratively, all part of washington, d.c. this another ball game. but this kind of violence is not new. you've written a book about it. in fact, there was an incident, you talk about a more recent one involving john boehner that a lot of people never heard about. hostility involving the then freshman house member john boehner with another lawmaker. listen to this. >> that was on the floor of the house. freshman member railing against -- the next you know i finish my speech, i'm walking toward the back of the chamber. i'm up against the wall. and i've got this 10-inch sharp

blade right here. and that guy is screaming at me. and i looked at him, and i went screw you! >> i mean, first of all, they're both like we know what happened this day. this is happening in some place? they became friends later. this wasn't widely known until a couple of years ago. what's your reaction? >> well, it's a reminder too, this is not necessarily an encouraging or comforting remind they're there are lots of things going on in the capitol that we don't know about. even i as someone who spent 15 or 17 years writing this book and looking for congressional violence, it was at the last minute that that particular incident crossed my radar screen. and i thought oh wait a minute, if this is in our immediate past and i've been looking for this sort of material and didn't see it, imagine what else is sort of lurking behind the scenes. so part of what we can train what we're looking at today is a

remind whatever we're looking at is public and thus noticeable, but there is probably always some degree of something lurking behind the scenes. i think what you just mentioned a moment ago is an important part of what we're seeing here, which is precisely because there is so much at stake, right, because of the possibility of a shutdown, because of gaza, because of ukraine, because of having just gotten over the contest to appoint a speakerer, because of any number of things that are really right now even just the idea of a presidential election coming. all of those things are so fraught and so extreme that the fact that the republicans can't pull themselves together don't have a unified policy, don't have party discipline, makes that all the worse. >> if these walls could talk. and before democrats get out their popcorn, there are flies on those womans as well. joanne freeman, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me.

we've got some breaking news tonight. israel says its forces are carrying out a precise and targeted operation at the largest hospital in the gaza strip, with hundreds of patients and staff who are still inside. we'll haveve the latesest, next.

our breaking news, israel says its troops are right i know carrying out a precise and targeted operation at the largest hospital in the gaza strip. a hospital israel says includes a hamas command center, an allegation denied by hospital officials and hamas. hundreds of staff and patients are reportedly inside that hospital, one with several thousand people who sought shelter from israel's military offensive. to break down what's happening, retired general steve anderson. so first of all, what is meant by this, and i'm quoting them, targeted and precise operation? >> well, laura, what we're talking about here is precise operations in the compound. this is not just a hospital

building, but it's a compound. you've got 1500 faculty members, staff member, and patients. and there is probably thousands of people living in the areas in the sheltered areas in this area right here. so what you got to do is you got to pinpoint exactly -- you got to pinpoint these spots and conduct precision operations. that doesn't mean indiscriminate fighting, or indiscriminate firing of missiles. it means going in with boots on the ground to take out the bad guys. you physically have to go in and occupy these buildings. and in this case, tunnels. because there is many tunnels, as we know underneath here. >> so when you talk about having to know that precision, the ground operation leading up to right now would have prepared for this very moment special forces? >> that's exactly right. you want special forces. you want infantry troops. you want folks who are trained in how to do this. they are using reing robots. they're using technology, but there is nothing that is going to replace a soldier that is

down in the tunnel, conducting an offensive operation to take out the bad guys. that's the only way to do this. there is just no technology that is probably going to allow you to overcome that basic fact. you have to have boots on the ground in the target area. >> they're calling this a command center. they're of course denying that. is there an indication that this is a value target area? >> absolutely. if you look at the tunnel map here, laura, you can see that the al-shifa hospital is essentially in this area right here. what do you see? you notice a lot of tunnels there is a lot of tunnels all over that northern part of gaza. now what the israelis have done a very good job is cut the country in half. they have essentially come across here. they're moving up from the south. they're coming down from the north, and they're also surrounding this area. and they have this news that they're applying. they've done a very effective job conducting a campaign that allows them to essentially control this entire area. and they're conducting precision attacks inside that area, which i think is a very prudent move

on their part. they cannot go willy-nilly into this gaza city area. they need to do it in a controlled methodical way. and the best way to do that is to surround the area and conduct precision attacks with boots on the ground on targeted areas like the al-shifa hospital. >> what we know about the tunnels so far, they could likely be housing hostages. how does that complicate it all? >> it complicates it greatly. your spot-on target that is the main problem. otherwise you can do things like flood the tunnels. you could cut off the air supply. but when you have hostages down there, that greatly complicates the whole thing. all the more reason to have soldiers that are trained in how to take out the bad guys. that's the only way you can have a chance of saving the hostages, by using people that are trained in this. you're not going to be able to use probably technology, and you're not going to be able to do some kind of a mass weapon because you take out the bad guys, you're going get the hostages. they've got to do it, the only way possible precision attacks with soldiers that are trained on thou do this in a tunnel

environment. >> so sinister about the reason to put the hostages in the tunnels in an area where like you say where a hospital is needed. unbelievable. general steve anderson. thank you. could donald trump be in a georgia courtroom on election day? how about inauguration day? we'll have the d.a. down there fani willis speaks out on the georgia election subversion case and jujust how long g it cououl. we'l'll talk abobout it nextxt..

well, new tonight, fani willis, the fulton county d.a. prosecuting former president donald trump and many others in georgia says that the election subversion trial could play out well past next year's presidential race. >> i believe the trial will take many months. and i don't expect that we will conclude until the winter or the very early part of 2025. >> well, mark your calendars. the early part of 2025 means by the time there is a verdict, whoever it will be president will have been elected by that. and that includes maybe the former president donald trump. if it goes past, say, inauguration day and he wins the

election, a lot of caveats here, he would already be in the white house. a lot different than what willis told reporters back in august. remember this? >> we do want to move this case along. so we will be asking for a proposed order that occurs a trial date within the next six months. >> six months. and at the time, everyone kind of scoffed at this notion, because of course there are 18 co-defendants. four of them have already taken a plea deal, meaning do the simple math, everyone, and carry the one. there is 14 left. now if the racketeering case involving rapper young thug that the d.a. was also overseeing, if that's the kind of preview of what's to come, then we have a long way to go. the rapper along with 27 others was indicted in may of 2022. get this. the jury selection lasted month nine, and the case will go to trial on november 27th. it's almost 18 months after the indictment. get some more perspective right now on all this from david

aaron, a former federal prosecutor. david, first of all, i am a little surprised she is talking, because she obviously knows every single word she says is going to be completely leaned in on and taken apart. are you surprised she spoke about this? >> i'm surprised that she is making public statements about it. i think when you look at what she is saying and you look at what's being represented to the court, i'm guessing it's going to be very similar. so she is probably not going beyond what's on the record in court. but it is unusual for a lead prosecutor, chief prosecutor to be making public statements like this. >> what she is saying is not necessarily about the substance of the matter, but just about the realistic trial date and the process. and it always seemed unrealistic that it could be done in six months. did it seem that way for you too? >> yeah. prosecutor comes out and they have in mind a timeline. they're not the only ones in charge of that. when you charge a case with lots of different defendant, all who have the right to make motions, the schedule is going the shift.

we've seen that in some of the other ongoing cases as well. it's not a surprise that a case like this could take this long if all of those defendants stay in the mix. >> it's a big if. you and have i tried cases. when you think about what your jury pool looks like, but also what's going to be the most per sways i argument to make to your jury. the idea of a looming election is goings to be very, very persuasive and helpful with the prosecution. the idea of one in the rear view mirror maybe not so much. does this now hurt their case? >> of course the judge is going to be instructing the jury not to think on any of that. >> and they're all going to ignore that. they're all going to be thank you, your honor. >> it's so hard to predict these unprecedented influences, how they're going have an impact on the jury, or really what the consequence of former president becoming the president-elect, what consequence that could have on the judge's management of the trial. >> i also look at this in terms of what has now leaked. we saw the proffer for sidney

powell, that jenna ellis, two attorneys have pleaded guilty in the case. fani willis also filed an emergency motion to try to serve -- to have a protective order in this case. the fact that there were leaks at all, though. how does that bear in terms of the actual trial? >> well, first off, it was a surprise to me, probably a surprise to you as well that there was no protective order in place. >> right? i thought that was odd too. >> engaging in discovery without a protective order. but local practices in different places. so that was a surprise. i don't know how much of an impact this will have. there could be an argument there is some tainting of the jury pool, there is some witness intimidation. but really looking at the little clips i was able the see, i don't know how much of that was coming in as evidence, or really what the legal consequence of it being leaked is. if someone did violate a standing order of the court or some other directive, depending on where the leak was from, there could be a consequence for that.

>> there is one order in fulton county. there is one of course in d.c. involving jack smith, a gag order that they're trying to have an appeals court uphold. what do you make of the chance of that happening? >> of the order in d.c. being upheld? >> right. >> it looks to me like that is a narrow order that is designed to let this judge, the judge in d.c. conduct that case the way that a case should be conducted, any case the defendant shouldn't be making comments targeting participants in the case, prosecutors, court personnel, witnesses, jurors. so i think that really stands a good chance of being upheld. it may be modified a little bit. public courts do that sometimes. but that seems like a very well tailored order, just maintain an orderly proceeding which is really the judge's responsibility to do. >> levee that you're operating in a normal world still. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> glad to see you, david aaron, everyone. listen, the man accused of attacking nancy pelosi's husband, he took the stand,

testifying in his own defense. he claims that he became caught up in conspiracy theories andrew up a list that included even tom hanks. the dramatic day in court is next.

chilling testimony by an even more chilling plot. the man accused of attacking nancy pelosi's husband with a hammer taking the stand today in his own defense. david depape claiming he hit paul pelosi because his larger plan was at risk. that included claims a plan where he planned to expose conspiracy theories online and involved targeting people on a hit list. a list including nancy pelosi herself, congressman adam schiff, the actor tom hanks, former attorney general bill bar, california governor gavin newsom, and a michigan professor. depape says all this started after his exploration of gamergate, a misogynistic attack platform against women critical of the gaming community. joining me now is juliette kayyem. break this all down for us a little bit here. there is a lot of different conspiracy theories at play.

how do you get from conspiracy theories to this thing called gamergate to attacking paul pelosi? >> yeah, so we'll start with gamergate. about 2014, this sort of online effort to go after, attack, undermine, ridicule, all sorort of things, women who were either criticizing the gaming industry, or were actually executives in the gaming industry. so youou need to think about so of all of these weird things like gamer gate as sort of gateway ideology. none of them stop where they are. they all become gateways to something else. in this example, gamergate becomes a gateway to the conspiracy theories, and then to the sort of right wing efforts and right wing conspiracies that he becomes a part of, and then launching to nancy pelosi. so they seem different and all bizarre, but they really serve as gateways to each other. and there are people who will

bridge those gateways. steve bannon says proved fertile ground for a lot of the efforts that he would then push to support trump. >> so in terms of the people who might be more susceptible. >> because a lot of people are exposed to conspiracy theories, he himself describe himself as right of center. he listens to podcasts. a lot of people do. but is somebody more susceptible to being able to do what he has done. >> look, there is a lot of different elements for someone who would go from, okay, i'm just reading a lot of weird things or even going down the rabbit hole, and then i'm going actually execute a plan against the second in line to the presidency. so what we do know in a lot of these instances is that they're looking to not double negative -- they're looking to not be lone wolves. in other words, they want that union, that cooperation, that community that the online groups give them. they sort of egg each other on.

they're pushing each other towards more hate, more misogyny, more racism, more anti-semitism. and then that pushes at least one of them forward. now who is that one person? what we know from a lot of these cases, well, they're white man. they are taken in by one gamergate and then it becomes a gateteway towards of right wing extremism, in this case, or at least sosome form of political extremism. they are uncomfortable in their own skin so to speak. they're looking for people to give them validation. and so their hatred then gets taken by this online community and then they go forward. so all of these. the element of these men being so misogynistic and the hate-filled. a lot of that is obviously their own insecurity and uncomfortableness in their own skin. so when you look at, for example, a lot of these guys who were on being homophobic, they

lot of them ended up being arrested or exposed for gay. worried by children taken by democrats, a lot of them have eventually prosecuted for child pornography, if not chile molestations. so there is a horrible nexus between the thing that they hate and the very thing that they are. >> this is something who went threw a lot of rabbit holes. this is somebody who believed that 9/11 was an inside job. he thinks that everything was a lie from the press. he has gob down a lot of rabbit holes. if you describe all that you've talked about, what is law enforcement to do? are they only able to be reactive then? these are perhaps the needles in the haystack, trying to figure out which person, a member of these communities are going to be the ones that might perpetrator a crime. what is law enforcement to do? >> yeah, a lot of it is going especially against vips lucky paul and nancy pelosi. i was surprised how isolated

paul pelosi was. obviously nancy pelosi had been there, there would have been more security. and the idea that this isn't sort of a political crime is ridiculous. he thought that nancy pelosi was in the house. he clearly was going after her. but we know from deradicalization, and we know from a lot of studies that have been done at this stage that the best community that can grab people out of this rabbit hole is their family and friends, is the community that sees this happening. and then even in his case,e, th was true, thatat his community, the people around him saw him getting more and more radicalized, more and more into these theories. but it's really, we are very dependent on people coming foforward or trying to get peop out of these rabbit holes that they think they've been in. and gamergate is just one thing. it is that -- it is that -- it's like a gateway drug, right?

you find them there. and all of the sudden you're going to lure them to sort of radical extremism, radical political extremism, which as we head towards 2024 is a disconcerting thought. >> juliette kayyem, thank you so much. it is very scarying. unbelievable. tens of thousands rally on the national mall in support of israel. one of the organizers for the march for israel is going to join me next.

a huge show of support in the capital, tens of thousands in a march for israel. the goal was to offer support to israel and call for the release of more than 200 hostages held

in gaza. top u.s. political leaders were there to lend support. >> we stand with israel. >> the survival of the state of israel and her people unites us together and unites all americans. >> and a plea from the mother of a hostage. >> we all have third-degree burns on our souls. our hearts are bruised and kooep seeping with misery. but the real souls suffering are those of the hostages. why is the world accepting that 240 human beings from almost 30 countries have been stolen and buried alive? >> in the lead-up to the rally, the department of homeland security designated it as a

level 1 security threat allowing for interagency support. seemingly, the event went on without a hitch. joining me now, julia platt, one of the two organizations that planned the rally. you just heard one of the mothers of a hostage. it seemed to really hit close to home. for all of us, just thinking about what's at stake here, what was your reaction to what she said? >> i can barely stand it. i can barely stand to listen to her. and there were many families of hostages with us today at the rally. it's hard to imagine how they sleep, how they go through their days. there are little children who are hostages. i have grandchildren. i can't imagine what that feels like. we actually just heard that perhaps there is one more hostage because i think one of the hostages may have given birth. so to imagine that scenario as a hostage, i can barely stand it. >> that gives me absolute pause to even hear that.

the idea of anyone being taken in that way, and then to see a need for a rally and a march against anti-semitism in the year 2023, then to have so many people turn out for marching. what did that mean to you? >> we believe it was the largest gathering of american jews in history. our guess is about 290,000 jews and allies of the jewish community came together today. we needed to be in community. we need node we have each other, that we would be listened to in this fight against anti-semitism and in our great desire to help to free the hostages. it felt great to be together. it felt empowering. it felt like coming out of isolation and pain and fear to stand strong and to stand as a community and to voice our great desire for help. >> there is a broad spectrum of

views even within the audience in terms of what comes next. listen to this moment. there was a call from in the rally from van jones. listen to what he had to say. >> i'm a peace guy. i pray for peace. no more rockets from gaza, and no more bombs falling down on the people of gaza. god protect the children. god protect children. let's end all the horror and all the heartbreak in the holy land. let's end all of it. let's end all of it. >> now, there was initial applause there, we hear. but then 60 seconds later, listen to this. 30 seconds later, actually. >> let's take a stand here against anti-jewish bigotry. let's take a stand against muslim. let's take a stand here against hatred. >> you're hearing a chant of "no ceasefire, no ceasefire." why do you think that was the chant following that statement? >> i believe that there is a

fear of american jews in solidarity with israel that until hamas has been rooted out, there will be no freedom for palestinians or israelis. hamas has got to be removed from power and removed from the stranglehold they have in the palestinian territories and in israel. so the worry about a ceasefire is it can't happen now. we can't have a ceasefire. what will happen with the ceasefire? they'll simply rearm, something dreadful like what happened on october 7th might be enabled by a moment to regroup, rearm, restrategize. it can't happen now until hamas has been removed as a threat, beth to the palestinians and to israelis. >> how do you reconcile the humanitarian crisis happening among the civilians? >> i do truly believe that it is the desire of the israeli people

and of all people of good will to deliver humanitarian aid. i know you have seen and read that it is very possible that those efforts are being blocked out by hamas itself. it is all of our desires to save lives of innocent civilians. we believe it is a jewish value to hold on to life, that every, every person is made in the image of god. but terrorism cannot rule. it can't rule us. it can't rule palestinians. >> julie, thank you so much. there is so much to say and to unpack and we should not be here for any of these reasons. i appreciate it so much. >> thank you so much. >> thank you all for watching. our coverage continues.