you're watching cnn news central. israel is under growing international pressure to provide evidence that hamas uses gaza's al-shifa hospital as a command center. as premature babies evacuated from the hospital arrive in egypt. we have special teams in the region. the supreme court appears ready to limit the speech of a former american president, as donald trump's legal team fights the gag order in the federal

case that accused him of trying to undermine the 2020 election. an appeals court struck out a key tool for a civil rights law. why this could set up another supreme court showdown. we're following these stories and many more coming in right here, to cnn news central. ♪ we have concrete questions. and we expect answers. that's what family members of hostages being held by hamas in gaza said before they went into meet with israel's prime minister. that was in the last hour. the white house now saying that negotiations to release some of the hostages are, quote, getting close to the end. also today, more than two dozen lives were potentially saved when 28 premature babies were evacuated from the bombarded

al-shifa hospital in gaza. they're being treated in egypt. >> as that evacuation played out, another hospital suffered a deadly attack. israeli tank shells killed 12 people at gaza's indonesian hospital. israel says they were responding to enemy fire inside that hospital. let's go live to israel with jeremy diamond. jeremy, bring us up to speed about the situation at the indonesian hospital. >> reporter: well, local health officials say 12 people were killed by israeli tank fire directed at the indonesian hospital in gaza. the israeli authorities for their part say they did return fire. but they say there were gunmen inside that indonesian hospital who were firing at israeli troops. so, they fired back. the world health organization chief, for his part, said he was appalled by this attack and civilians should not be subjected to these kinds of attacks when they are in places like hospitals.

among the dead, according to officials, are patients and one medical staffer. the israeli military, for its part, maintains it was returning fire. and hospitals lose their protection under international law if they are used by combatants to conduct attacks on other forces. we have not, of course, confirmed that the israeli account was true. that's their position. we know this is the latest incidents of civilians caught in the cross fire. the united nations school in gaza was struck. unclear if it was by israeli fire. egypt and qatar have blamed the israeli military for the strike that killed those in that school. the israeli military has been trying to build a case for targeting these hospitals and in infrastruck ct

infrastructure, saying that hamas is using these for operations. they claim they have a large command and control center below that hospital. while they have yet to prove the claim, the israeli military releasing the most concrete evidence that there are tunnels under the hospital, showing a video of the drone going into the tunnel shaft. you can see the spiral staircase and down a tunnel hallway, where at the end of it, you get to a door, which israeli officials say they have yet to open because they fear that it may be booby trapped. while officials have yet to refe reveal the extent of their claims, they are providing evidence they say points to hamas using the hospitals for operations. >> jeremy, we do, on the hostage front, appear to be getting close to a deal. there is optimism, the strongest optimism we've seen in the last few weeks.

explain what we're hearing. >> no doubt about it. we heard the deputy national security adviser saying this is the closest we've been eff effectively to a deal. the qatari prime minister has been mediating the negotiations say they have been making a lot of progress. and the main challenges are logistical. it appears there's potential agreement in a draft form that would see as many as 50 hostages, perhaps more, in days to come, in an exchange of a four-day to five-day pause in the fighting. a lot of details to be ironed out. officials here have been cautious to say there is no deal until there is a deal. >> extremely fluid situation. jeremy diamond, in israel. thank you very much. let's get to cairo. the 28 newborns that we have been watching travel from al-shifa hospital to egypt, how are they doing? what condition do the doctors

say they are in? well, they describe a situation that is difficult and could deteriorate the babies. the w.h.o. says 11 of them are in critical condition. they are suffering various infections that were unable to be controlled and contained at al-shifa. and to describe the conditions in the hospital, specifically in the past week, running out of fuel, food, water, one mother with one of the babies, a little girl, she says they ran out of milk. she was describing the nightmare scenario at al-shifa before they were evacuated out on sunday and to the hospital in rafah. it's important to note that the w.h.o. and the u.n. and other agencies were assessing whether they could open up a safe passage from al-shifa to move down south.

it was one of the situations that was so complex and dangerous. what al-shifa has been experiencing the last week. the egyptians were waiting for babies over a week. and they were talking about expecting 36 neonatal babies. now, we know 28 are in egypt. five died in the last week. here in egypt, they will be receiving the care they need, despite the very critical condition that most are in right now. >> thank you very much. for more on all of this, let's go to retired army colonel meter monsieur who served with david petraeus during the iraq war. he is a professor of history at ohio state university. and rob d'amico, a retired fbi agent with hostage negotiations experience, including with qatar and the taliban.

qatar, at the center of this, as they negotiate -- mediate between israel and hamas. colonel monsieur, i want to start with you. and how israel is prosecuting its war. israel and the military have made a big push to roprove hama is using hospitals for cover. we saw the israelis strike the indonesian hospital. 12 people were killed, among them patients. i spoke to an adviser to benjamin netanyahu who told me that israel is complying with international law, the way they go about to dismantle hamas in gaza. they say it's proportional to the attack we saw on october 7th. what are your thoughts? >> israel is winning the war on the ground and losing the battle for information around the world.

israel probably is, you know, come flying with the law of war but it can't prove it. it needs to have reporters embedded with the formations. it needs to do better in terms of gathering evidence on critical sites. the sites protected by the geneva conventions. and it needs to be hesitant to afac attack sites when it takes fire. it can prove what it says is reality. >> there's encouraging signs with ongoing hostage negotiations. john kirby saying not long ago, we're close to the end of negotiations. given what you've seen, do you think a deal is close? perhaps in the coming days?

>> i do. normally this stuff is behind closed doors. and things are going back and forth. and each side is putting pressure on the other to make sure they are getting as much as they can out of the deal. they mention logistics. one hostage recovery with the taliban in afghanistan and the logistics was a nightmare. now, fitimes that by 50. every side has to be protected when they do the hostage exchange and it gets difficult. you're seeing the pressure going back and forth. each side making sure they are getting as much as they can. and each side publicly talking about it is doing that. >> colonel monsieur, there's an expectation if there is a hostage exchange or release, there would be a pause in the fighting. it could be several days. our understanding is if this first group of 50 hostages were to be released, the fighting could pause as much as four days. so, what do you expect hamas

would be doing in that time? there have been allegations -- there's been some suspicion they would rest and rearm. how would israel pick up the fight once that pause is over? >> there's no doubt that hamas will resupply the fighters and reposition them. and resupply the battle positions. it will use this as a method of reorganizizing forces. the same can be said for israel. it may need a battlefield pause at this point, an operational pause in order to reorient its forces for the upcoming fight in the southern part of the gaza strip. this may be advantageous for both sides and you can get hostages released. maybe a win-win. >> over to you, robert, it's interesting that as the hostage negotiations are ongoing, the

fundamental for this is trust. hamas as we've seen on october 7th and other occasions, they're a terrorist organization. is it possible to negotiate in good faith and working with other groups to secure the hostages in the hands of islamic jihad, for example? >> as crazy as it sounds, there is trust. i negotiated with pirates and the taliban. you have to put the history and emotional side behind you and deal with it in fact. we flew a helicopter in to no weapons to an unarmed pickup truck that had a bunch of machine guns on it. and we had to trust them that we weren't going to shoot them with a predator. when it comes down to it, they know they're going to go on with other hostage negotiations and

they turn it on israelis, they're never going to trust them again. the trust goes back and forth. it is delicate. but if either side breaks it, they never can do it. >> fascinating perspective from experience. robert d'amico, peter mansoor, thank you so much. the legal fight over the gag order of donald trump. they say it violates his first amendment right and his ability to campaign for president. we'll get you the other side of that argument, too. and later, a federal appeals court just ruled against the key tool used to enforce the voting rights act. that and/ more on cnn n news centntral.

now, to the unprecedented hearing. today, about whether to limit the speech of a former american president. a d.c. appeals court heard arguments on a gag order for donald trump, as he faces federal criminal charges of election subversion. special counsel jack smith he sought to restrict trump from targeting him, his staff, court personnel and witnesses. >> trump's attorney oppose that order. they say it limits his first amendment rights. one of the judges did point out that trump can be enforced to speak miss manners when everyone is throwing targets at him. let's discuss with zach cohen. he followed in the 2 1/2-hour hearing. and with us is a former prosecutor. zach, in the end, it appears that the judges will dkeep the gag order in place. there may be a carveout for jack smith. >> they were signaling they were opening to a more narrow, modified version of the gag

order that was in place. and one that might allow donald trump to criticize jack smith going forward as he's on the campaign trail. and trump's lawyers made a point at the beginning of the hear, they can't -- the judge cannot restrict his ability to defend himself outside of the courtroom. as a presidential candidate, his political speech is fro tekted by the first amendment and he gets to say what he wants about the case. take a listen to what trump's lawyer said before this panel of judges said today. >> the order is unprecedented. and it sets a terrible precedent for future restrictions encore political speech. this is a radical departure from the cases this particular part of restriction. a defendant that is running for public office and does so in a contested campaign for the highest office of the united states of america. >> you hear by the tone that the tearing got tense at times. and the judges got skeptical about trump saying what he wants

under the premise of political speech. they were clear the difference between political speech and criminal speech. take a listen to this exchange between the judges and trump's lawyers about that very point. >> criminal speech, is obviously, subject to restrictions. >> that's -- >> core political speech, that's part of campaign speech, that -- >> i think they call it -- labeling it core political speech begs if it is in fact political speech or political speech aimed at derailing or corrupting the criminal justice process. you can't simply label it that and conclude your balancing test that way. we have to balance. >> reporter: trump's lawyers and the prosecutors in this case had 20 minutes each to make their cases. we spent the better part of 2 1/2 hours listening to judges go back and fofrtrth with them.

nailing down political speech and what may or may not qualify. >> do you think this gag order will remain? that's if so, what extent would it be modified? >> i think it's going to be significantly modified. we just heard a moment ago. it's going to permit criticism of jack smith. there's going to be more specificity about what topics are permitted for trump to speak on. and that's something that i think the judges today were really grappling with. they spent a lot of time trying to seek guidance from trump's attorneys. what might be an acceptable limitation on their client. and they did not receive any concession or guidance from them whatsoever. i think the judges will ultimately allow him to criticize the prosecution. they will, perhaps, limit comment regarding public figures

that are witnesses in the case. they will be careful to make sure that's not aimed towards influencing their testimony or criticizing the testimony regarding the issues that are part of this criminal case. >> the judges showed concern for the safety of witnesses. and jurors. tell us about that. that trump's rhetoric could lead to bpeople online publishing people doing their civic duty. it wasn't mentioned in the gag order. that was the topic of focus. the judges are worried that trump's rhetoric could lead to disinformation about innocent people being published online and threats that can imnate from that. there wasn't a resolution to that question today. the judge asked the prosecutors straight up is there any way to protect jurors from being docked in this scenario? and the prosecutor said, no. it remains to be seen if this is a future supreme court decision on this topic. >> yeah. at the other end of the

spectrum, in pterms of who trum can talk about, if the gag order remains in place, he can go after the person who is suspected to be his main opponent in 2024, joe biden. >> absolutely. he can criticize joe biden. he can criticize the justice department. part of the challenge is trump has made the attacks on the criminal process part of his political speech in this election. that's what makes things very complicated here. there's no question that the judges are going to allow trump to talk on a wide amount of topics in terms of political speech. what he's not permitted to do is s say things that will rile up people against testimony or influence testimony of witnesses or jurors. >> thank you so much. >> appreciate it, guys. still ahead, as time runs short to close the gap between them and donald trump, gop presidential candidates ramp up

criticism of the former president, less than two months before voting begins. we have the latest on the fight for the republican nomination. stay with us.

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wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. this thanksgiving it may not be a good idea to bring up politics at the thanksgiving table. when is it, actually? a new poll shows that 61% of

people would rather not talk about politics while visiting with family and friends and really focus on the meal. with less than a year until election day, it is a topic that's hard to avoid. right now, on his birthday, president joe biden is facing a battle for re-election, as concerns grow over his age. >> new nbc news poll shows that younger voters are turning on biden, with donald trump holding a four-point lead in a hypothetical rematch between those. this has republicans fighting to make a dent in the former president's lead, too. >> the presidency is not a job for somebody pushing 80 years old. that's something that's been shown with joe biden. father time is undefeated. donald trump is not exempt from any of that. >> not so much about donald trump and, yes, his personality is not my personality.

yes, he says things he shouldn't say. we look so distracted right now. and when america's distracted, the world is less safe. >> with us is senior editor for "the atlantic, ron brownstein and jessica dean. how are candidates making their last sprint to voters? >> i'm happy that we're not among the 61% that don't want to talk about this. i'm happy to be here with my friends to discuss that. just to set the stage, the iowa caucuses are january 15th. we're getting ever closer. i want to remind people no one knows just yet. however, on the ground, it is interesting when you start to look at how these different candidates are approaching this beginning of the final stretch,

let's call it. and one really good example of this. ron desantis was in iowa and did 12 stops. donald trump was there for one stop. casey desantis is going back four, five, six stops on tuesday. we're seeing ron desantis, it's all--in iowa mission and strategy. they're spending so much time on the ground there. nikki haley, they are doing this retail politicking that the early states have come to expect, in places like iowa or new hampshire. the question remains, can you unstick some of the donald trump voters? that's the "x" factor. it's very distinct difference in how the front-runner is campaigning, donald trump, and all the others continue to campaign. >> ron brownstein, talk to that point, if you will. we're in the finalish stretch before the iowa caucus. we had the third republican

presidential debate. the candidates who trail donald trump in polls, don't seem to be making a dent. nikki haley has wind at her back. 43% of likely republican caucusgoers are picking trump as their first choice. his closest rival is receiving 16%. what do you make of the state of the republican race and how these candidates are going about campaigning? >> well, first of all, it's not clear that yanyone, in tend, is going to be able to give trump a serious challenge for the nomination, given the breadth and depth of his lead. but it is clear, the only way that's going to happen, the only way there will be a serious challenge -- when he won the nomination the first time, we never got to a point where there was a binary

one-on-one choice between trump and a single alternative. and if there is going to be a threat to him, alex, we have to get to that point. who can do that for most of this year, it was if anyone can get to a one-on-one with trump, it was likely to be desantis. but his support has narrowed since he announced his candidacy. and to run at trump mentirely from the right, he's left a lot of room in the centrist areas of the party. and haley has filled that vacuum in new hampshire. desantis has the challenge, if he runs well in iowa, can he do any better in the next states on the calendar than the last three ohio winners? huckabee in '08, santorum in '12, ted cruz in '16. they won iowa but ran into a snowbank in new hampshire, where there are many fewer of the voters.

right now, desantis is on that road to nowhere. and haley looks like she is better positioned in new hampshire and south carolina, to get this down to a one-on-one race if anyone can. >> ron, sticking with you, it strikes me that we heard haley and desantis making the age argument about dump. that there needs to be a change in the republican party and across the country. they are also attacking president biden, who is turning 81 today. those have worked against biden in polling. can they work against rump? >> to me, how reluctant they are to make a policy argument. desantis is running against trump but entirely from the right. haley makes criticism of his comments. many of the biggest vulnerabilities trump would have has a general election nominee

have not come up in a republican primary. that's one of the reasons this early pulling may not reflect his vulnerabilities if he wins the nomination. they are looking for ways to encourage voters who like trump, who liked his performance as president, but who may be willing to consider alternative to move on beyond him without having to admit they were wrong to support him in the first place, is what the republican pollster would call the maybe trump voters. my guess is that is not going to be enough in the end. if haley or desantis gets down to a one-on-one race with trump, they're going to have to make a more frontal, direct argument about why he should not be the republican nominee. >> we have a couple moments left. when it comes to nikki haley, a lot of people saw a more reasonable stance on abortion. but on friday, she said she

would sign a six-week abortion ban into law, if she were the south carolina governor. how do you think that impacted her? >> remember, you have to win a primary to get to the general. the republican primary, the party circles around the six-week abortion ban. that's what ron desantis signed into florida. and what kim reynolds signed into iowa there. to give you a moderate or a consensus view on that, this election is going to come down to swing states. where independent voters are going to play a key role. and independent voters have told us time and time again they are not comfortable with the six-week ban. that's the line she has to straddle. you have to get out of the primary. to do that, you have to win. then, you have to make shoours sellable and palataable to thos voters as well. coming up, a potential showdown in the supreme court over one of the country landmark

civil rights laws. a court just ruled against a key tool used to invoke the voting rights act. we'll have the details ahead. stay with us.

there's potentially another task coming up for the u.s. supreme court, after a federal appeals court issued a ruling today to strike down a key tool that is being used to enforce the voting rights act. >> joan, what happened?

where does the case go from here? >> sure. u.s. appellate court in the american part of the country, the 8th circuit, today, dramatically undercut the 1965 voting rights act. it brushed aside decades of precedent and essentially set up a new confrontation at the u.s. supreme court. at issue is a section of the voting rights act that prohibits discrimination based on race. and a key question was, who can bring cases to vindicate that? is it just the u.s. attorney? or can private parties, like the aclu, like for decades have been bringing cases. this appellate court said there is no private right of action to represent hispanic, black and other minority voters, who feel like their voting power has been diluted with the way redistricting lines have been drawn. this case comes from arkansas. huge issue because as the loan

dissenter in the panel said, over the past 30 years, some 182 successful challenges have been brought under this section of the law, section 2. and only 15 of them have been brought by the attorney general. they are brought by groups like the naacp. so, this is so important. and here's another key thing. the court -- the two-justice majority. it was written by a trump appointee by the name of david strauss, a former law clerk to clarence thomas. one of his first appointees to the 8th circuit. he cites his former boss, clarence thomas, and neil gorsuch, who have been pushing for re-examination of whether private parties can use section 2 of the voting rights act to vindicate core voting rights that were established in the landmark 1965 voting rights act. the supreme court majority has not asked for reconsideration of

this. but two key justices have been pushing it, saying it's an open question. and because this new ruling today breaks ground, this is -- we now have splits in lower courts. lower courts and the supreme court have allowed these challenges for decades. this sets up a major showdown at the supreme court. as we're just going into a big presidential election year. >> and a very busy session for the supreme court. >> that's right. >> thank you so much for the update. still to come, remembering rosalynn carter. we're going to look at the long life and rich legacy of the former first lady, after a quick break.

compassionists, a great humanitarian and woman of dignity and strength. some of the ways former first lady rosalynn carter is being honored and remembered today. she died yesterday at age 96 with her husband former president jimmy carter by her side. >> they just selcelebrated thei 77th anniversary back in july. her husband paid tribute to r rosalynn with this statement. "she gave my wise guidance and encouragement when i needed it. as long as rosalynn was in the world i always knew someone loved me and supported me." author of the book "outlier: the unfinished presidency of jimmy

carter." thank you so much for joining us. president carter calling rosalynn his equal partner. tell us what you saw in that dynamic. >> well, this was an incredible marriage. 77 years. i'd like to quote one of carter's white house aides stu who once saids carters don't have friends. they have each other. it was that kind of the marriage. she was very close to jimmy, and she was his closest political advisor. >> and to that point, she had an influence in the white house. she worked out of the east wing. hired a chief of staff, and she sat in on cabinet meeting. something that at the time was largely unprecedented. what do you think it was about her that led to that larger role in the white house?

>> well, she insisted on being involved, and she wanted to be knowledgeable. so carter said to her, why don't you just come to the cabinet meetings and then you'll learn what the political issues. and she had a tougher political eye than jimmy carter did. you know, president carter sort of had a disdain for the wheeling and dealing of congressional politics and dealing with capitol hill. but rosie, as he called her, you know, she had a, an astute political eye as loved it. she loved knowing about it, and she tried to encourage her husband -- to -- political -- but was also tough you know, morally speaking, and she was -- you know, she had her issues like public mental health programs, but she was a southern white woman who was quite

pretty, but a steel magnolia, as they say in the south, and she was very tough on race. i'm struck in particular by the fact that when she became first lady of georgia in 1970, one of her first acts was to go and visit the women's prison in georgia, and she was appalled by the conditions. but this led eventually to her hiring a convicted murdereress, mary prince, to become their nanny for young amy, and mary prince spent, has spent the rest of her life sort of virtually as part of the carter household, and she actually lived in the white house. still serving out her prison sentence and the carters just believed in her innocence, the innocence of this young black

woman and they took her in and made her part of the family. this is, you know, an about how principled rosalynn carter could be. >> what about their post-white house life? of course only in the white house one term. we've seen countless pictures of the two of them working on houses for, habitat for humanity, but what do you think sort of defined their post-white house era for rosalynn and jimmy carter? >> yes. they worked for habitat for humanity. every year devote one week to building houses for the poor. but, you know, they spent the rest of their time at the carter center, and turned jimmy carter's post-presidency into a, a very special thing. they have a budget of hundreds of millions of dollars. they went around the world

inspecting elections. as election monitors, trying to advance the cause of democracy globally. they sent years, spent years in funding projects in africa and latin america wiping out guinea worm disease and as i said, she made her special issue, it was mental public health, and she made that her personal cause, and she continued to work on it in jimmy carter's post-presidency through the carter center. >> thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. we'll be right back.

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before we go we want to introduce you to the newest member of the cnn family. this is fitzwilliam matthew colin a little known at fitzy. belonging to natasha chen. >> natasha and kevin's love story has cnn to thank for it. they met working together in atlanta where kevin was natasha's producer. little fitzy you see with natasha came into the world three days ago on november 17th just after 1:00 in the morning weighing 7 pounds 15 ounces. a little something extra, to be extra thankful on this thanksgiving. congratulations to kevin n, natasha and fitzy. >> and anything like his fathe