so, what exactly happened in the oval office behind closed doors? and the legal case that could put donald trump maybe right back in the white house? tonight, on laura coates live. admittedly, there is so much trump legal news. you might have a little trouble keeping track of it all. you have election interference. you have fraud, hush money payments. classified documents. yes. it is a lot. let me tell you what the main take away is tonight. the thing that puts really all of this in perspective. the presidency, well, it just might be the ultimate get out of jail free card for one donald j. trump. imagine you are all in law

school now. because in a way, we have all become law students. how could all of this legal trouble just maybe fade away? i will explain to you, but don't worry. no pop quiz. no socratic method. that's all coming up. but first, i want to look at what we have learned just in the past few hours. first, kenneth chesbro coming back to maybe haunt the former president. he is the ex-pro trump lawyer whose claim to fame is helping to cook up the fake elector's plot and who pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy in the election interference case. well now, he is talking to investigators in michigan, nevada, wisconsin as well as georgia. if we were in an old time gangster movie, you could say he was singing like a canary. this is what he told michigan

prosecutors about a photo op gone wrong in the oval office way back in december of 2020. >> i ended up explaining that arizona was still hypothetically possible. it was i think clear in a way that maybe hadn't been before that we had until january 6 to win. that created a real problem. >> absolutely a real problem. he told trump how he could still win and explained how so- called alternate electors in places like arizona and six other states gave trump an opening to keep contesting the election all the way until january 6th. there is another case. it is also a huge deal. i told you, a little bit of whiplash, a little bit of fire hose drinking here. this one might put him back in the white house. how? maybe by kicking a can way down the road. judge tanya, you know her well from how we have been covering

this case, while she is now pausing temporarily the dc election interference case which could push that trial date set for march 2024 a little further down the road. and the longer the case is paused, the closer we get to november 5, 2024. and potentially a second trump term. now jack smith has ask first- degree supreme court to step in and resolve a really big question if that case. the big question of course, does trump have presidential immunity? in other words, law students come in. where i'm going with all this, you already know. all those cases are piling up. looks bad, but it may come down to what happens on election day. because if trump wins, at the federal level of course, he may also win that great big old get out of jail free card. i have a mountain of legal

development i have to plow through all of you here. it is that important to know. it is that important to actually get an assess and i got the perfect guest to do it. so, first of all, first things first, we got the fire hose going. we are all drinking through it. a lot of cases to get through. when it comes to this major development today, this pause in this case, it is very significant. isn't it? >> it is. we are on the clock in that case because trial was set for march 4. we are in december. counting less than three months to get to the case and the question is how many days are going to be eaten up as we have these appeals? there are two going on.

a process going on in the supreme court. a process in the court of i a peels, both moving at extraordinary speed. we don't know what the terminus will be. if they take 30 or 60 or 90 days off the clock. you still get that trial. you get that trial before november. it matters so much because of the connection. if you look at the big new york times poll where trump was leading biden in the swing states, if trump has a single conviction and sentencing, there is a 14-point swing. so there is a connection between the trial date and the election date. >> sophia, are you ready for my dramatic reading? i'll tell you why.

so, apparently, trump's attorneys have been arguing about that clock. you never ever should be serious in a filing for the court. but he talk about the schedule. he said this is an actual quote, this proposed schedule would require them to work around the clock. disrupting family plans. it is as if the special council growled with his grinch fingers nervously coming. i must find some way to keep christmas from coming. but how. you have served honorably in government as well. is this even remotely persuasive to a court as the idea you have known the schedule all along? >> let's move on. secondly, the judge did give them a stage. did something that other people

were really not happy with today. and i think that she made an interesting choice given the fact that no judge like to be overturned so if it goes to the supreme court and they say there will not be a trial because he does have presidential immunity, there is a problem. i agree with everything norm said about the time line and the process. it all depends on how fast this moves and how fast they come back. one question i would ask you, is, can she do this parallel or the reason she stopped it is because she can't for the reasons i said? i'm not really sure. >> trump's argument is i'm totally immune as president. it is a losing argument by the way. however much time gets eaten up at the end of that, they will say no, you are not immune. >> is it that certain? >> i think so. he's not president. >> the whole idea of america is you know, there used to be somebody in charge who was

above the law who was the law. the king. we started a country in which everybody is subject to the constitution. the judge wrote a very persuasive opinion. there has never been a case holing a president absolutely immune. i think this court, the supreme court, is going to toss it out for sure, this panel. this panel in the dc circuit. >> they are wild. >> it is a strong panel for the government. they are not going to recognize that. so, but the problem that sophia points to is when you have made an argument that hey, i am not supposed to be in this court at all. binding supreme court precedent to jack smith and tanya's credit, they followed the law. while that argument that trump is making, you have no right over me at all. while that is going on? you have to pause most of the case. that's what tanya did. it is the honorable thing to

do. >> the roast beast is getting ready to be consumed. >> it's on the rocket and in the supreme court. it will be decided i think the most likely, nobody knows for sure, the most likely the odds cluster around 60 days. that just means we go from march to april to may, maybe to june. you can still get a trial in before the election on that schedule. >> while the judge may be pausing it, those building the case and preparing for trial are not stopping or they ought not to stop. we heard the audio tapes and had information about what he is telling those in different states. that is an important point. the witnesses, those who might testify against trump and other actors, they will not have a pause in preparation. they will still be held to account for that guilty plea. for what they must say on trial truthfully. they don't have a break. >> you know the prosecutors

don't rest. i worked on committee staff. you worked. we don't sleep. there were days you don't sleep. so i think it is actually to trump's disadvantage that they are not, his lawyers did this kind of whole pause and we need christmas thing actually for all the reasons you stated. >> it shows that trump knew about the elector's plot. the immunity aspect of it. it comes down to the immunity argument that everything you do while you are the president is not immune from prosecution if you knew about criminal or, rha >> wouldn't that apply to joe biden? i'm sorry. i'll behave myself. >> hold on. what now? >> how could that be the law? once you were elected president, it would allow you to plan bank robberies and kidnappings and even murder in the oval office. >> this is ridiculous. the average person thinking about how the supreme court

takes a case. based on how ridiculous you are describing it, why would the supreme court, you have an option. >> needs to be settled. >> they are just doing that for that reason. i don't know. i wish i could be as confident. >> you got article one, article two, article three. judiciary and executive in congress right? and i think that in this case, the supreme court and the courts want to be clear about what the presidential power? what is presidential immunity? we need to know that. going forward so that this never happens to us again. because this is a kangaroo clown show in my humble opinion. >> it is possible. right now they are deciding are they going to take up the question or not. and they will get a brief from trump on the december 20. they also do not want to be accused of being grinch like. i was a defense lawyer. i had to represent the grinch. they don't want to be accused.

they may decide their last business day is december 22nd. they may say we will consider this. and their determination might be denied. they may say no. he was right. i think they will probably take it up. i think the votes are there. and they are going to say in some form of fashion, there is no absolute presidential immunity. >> i think they will all agree. >> thanks so much. coming up, what everyone is going to be talking about for weeks to come, i'll give you a little hint because it could derail thehe next elecection. bebet o o' rouourke is herere a nenext.

all right, well here is something that will derail washington for weeks. it is what everyone will be talking about for quite some

time. let me bring you up to speed. the impeachment inquiry into president joe biden. house voting today along party lines, perhaps unsurprisingly to formalize that inquiry. just hours after the president's son hunter biden defied a subpoena from republican investigators to give closed door testimony. remember, he has been insisting he wants to testify, but he has to do it in a public setting. a lot to discuss now with beto o' rourke. i'm so glad you are here. i have been curious about how you would think about all these different issues so welcome to the program. the republicans got what they wanted. there is an impeachment inquiry. biden is calling it a baseless political stunt and i'm wondering without any information on this high crime and misdemeanor we thought was

the requirement is any of this truly warranted? >> laura, first of all, thanks for having me on. i wonder if this is really at the end of the day what republicans want. they may think they want this now. but the fact they have had years to investigate the president and his son and have been able to turn up nothing. it is republican members of congress who are saying this as well. it means that over the course of this next year, the american public and importantly the elect rat will become increasingly frustrated with the waste of time and resources and attention and focus when we have real legitimate problems right in front of us right nowment i think this will go further to make the case for the reelection of the president and it will make the case for the election of democrats to congress. because the american people want folks in those positions of power who are actually going to get something done.

as you know, republicans have a very narrow majority. there are competitive races all over the country including three right here in texas. so in some ways this might be a gift to democrats to the president right now. we saw what happened in the impeachment of president clinton in the 1990s . and the resurgence in his power and the power of democrats so i would not be surprised if the same thing were to happen over the course of the next year. >> interesting because when you look at impeachment, when the public perceived it as a political hit job so to speak. looking at this not based in evidence, there tends to be that reaction, but we as a society have become accustomed to impeachment procedurings. there were two in two years when it came to donald trump. could he benefit similarly given a lot of his campaign has

been about retribution. will this be a kind of wash given the two prior impeachments? >> i think we have to give the american people and the folks who will be voting in the 2024 elections a lot more credit. i think they understand that president trump was impeached not once, but twice for very serious crimes. shaking down or attempting to shake down president zelenskyy and ukrainian government to dig up dirt on the biden family or trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power after a lawfully legitimately decided election. in fact, he is the only president who had votes to convict him from both parties. first time that has happened in american history. this persecution of president biden right now has literally turned up nothing. and i think the people see that. even republican members of congress see that as well.

so they are empty handed without being able to pass the budget, move anything forward in the congress, even make a deal on things almost everyone in this country at least in congress can agree on. like sending aid toen a ally who is under attack by vladimir putin in europe to stave off a potential attack on nato partners and allies which would involve the united states military in a war noneover us wants to begin to imagine. this is an american priority right now. and the republican house is in absolute dysfunction. instead of geting the job done, they have chosen this side show of prosecuting the current president with no basis or facts whatsoever. >> maybe you could add to the side show. hunter biden. he is someone they have been after quite some time. there are criminal indictments brought again him after he failed plea discussion over the summer. but he was on the court, on the

steps of congress just today. and he was talking about wanting to testify in front of cameras because of the concern of being used as a a political pawn. now he is telling everyone there is absolutely no there. but he was subpoenaed to testify behind closed doors. do you think hunter biden should have appeared nonetheless? >> i think prosecutors should follow the facts and the evidence as far as they go. if he is found guilty of a crime, he should pay the price as any american would. what he shouldn't have to do is play a central role in political theater. i think he did the right thing showing up publicly and transparently talking about the allegations against him. about what the last few years of his life had been. and once again, saying very

clearly and without equivocation that his father has no connection to his business dealings or the things that he has been ladies and gentlemenned to do. but, if we are going to talk about presidents or former presidents, you look at what jared kushner has done trading on the name of his father-in- law both when donald trump was in office. certainly after he has left office. that is the big leagues of corruption and influence peddling. again, if hunter biden has committed a crime and a judge or jury finds that to be the case, so be it. and it should run its course, but trying to bring him into a failed impeachment plan, he did the right thing by calling that out publicly. >> it sounds like putting the

political cart before the horse. if it were only hunter biden, perhaps it would be more manageable for president biden. but there is a headache out for the administration as you knkno a lot of polling. one is a new poll. it has biden at only 39% support among gen z. you have resonated with gen z for many reasons. why do you think the numbers for biden are so low? >> part of it might be that people are not fully engaged or paying attention yet. it might be that the president, his team have failed to effectively engage this part of the electorate. we are a little under a year away now and the clock is ticking and certainly they should make this group of american voter as priority. but i think the president has an extraordinary opportunity right now to connect with those voters. and the issue is immigration. it is one that many democrats

tend to run away from. because it is such a charged issue. it is at the center of the negotiations around aid for ukraine, israel. and taiwan. i think the president who distinguishes himself from the former president and other politicians by being such a moral man has the opportunity to lead on this issue that resonates so strongly with younger americans. if he could say listen: there are people who are trying to come to this country. i will make sure there are legal safe orderly pathways for them to do it so nobody dies along the way in the process so we don't separate families or cage kids as donald trump did. and work to solve a problem most of america agrees is the real challenge right now. not only will he be a hero doing things for the right reasons, this will accrue to his advantage politically. this is a great opportunity for

him to reject the extremist demands by gop smatters. >> you know. one of the things that has been a factor here as we emphasize about young voters, he has lost a lot of support. among latinos, among african american voters. and there's a lot of concern about his age in particular. do you think that president biden is the best choice for democrats to secure a reelection in 2024? >> i do. and he is the choice. there is no other choice. to be really clear, it will be donald trump versus joe biden in november of 2024. that is the choice before us. everything else is just static or interference or a distraction for the time being. it is going to come down to

those two men. and when you look at the contrast on any given issue, and let's just go back to immigration, trump wants to round up and deport millions of people who have made their home here in america. he is the person responsible for separating children from their mothers and putting kids in cages. we can either go back to that kind of shameful history in our country or we can move forward with the president who has made extraordinary gains confronting climate change, reducing childhood poverty, investing in the infrastructure of this country. and navigating some very difficult foreign policy decisions better than just about any other person could do given the same set of circumstances. he has done a remarkable job. to your point, laura, he has got to make the case right now. but what the next four years will look like, if there is an issue that is grabbing the attention of this country right now, it is immigration. for those of us who live on the border where i am here in el paso, and for people and especially young people across the country, for the president

to take this issue on, and not accept a deal that will revive some of the worst trump policies that will lead us forward on making sure that we get the most of those coming to this country. they have nowhere else to go. to stay where they are fleeing from means to die in those places. i think it would be a major achievement for his administration. but it would inspire people who might be checked out of this election. think about joe biden and vote for him. >> 2024, 2028 something you are interested in, beto? >> not at all. i'm very focused on the moment and what we have to do to make sure this country stays on the right path. here in texas, we have our work cut out on us. we have a group called power of

people to register voters to make sure that ted cruz doesn't serve another term. and to put texas' 40 electoral college votes into play. imagine if a democrat were to win texas. it hasn't happened since jimmy carter did it in 76. it would forever change what is possible electorally in this country and i'm singularity focused on that issue. >> we'll have a lot more to talk about after a quick break. so please stick around. i have a lot to ask you including what is going on in texas. back in a momoment.

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there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. back with us now to talk about the issues that may decide the next election is beto o' rourke. we have been covering a lot about kate cox. the texas woman forced to go to court to obtain an abortion after learning her fetus had a fatal condition. she was denied. ken paxton said no. she did end up leaving the state to get the care she needed and you responded saying this. texas, this is texas until we

change it. so, how do you intend or is it possible to change what has happened? >> yeah. don't count texas out. i know that some people are tempted to do that. especially with news like this. you mentioned ken paxton, our attorney general twice indicted by the way. you know, as this woman is going through this incredibly difficult moment in her life, that threatens her health, maybe even her own life, being forced by the state of texas to move through her pregnancy with a non-viable pregnancy, and then ken paxton, the attorney general says, if you go get this court-approved procedure, this abortion that might save your life, i will go after your husband, i will go after any doctor or hospital that facilitates this and they may go to prison for the rest of their lives. so, don't give up on texas if anything right now, texas needs the people who are watching right now. and let's remember this.

that a little more than 50 years ago, abortion was just as illegal in the state as it is today. but it was three extraordinarily brave texas women. it was jane roe and linda coffee, sara weddington and her two attorneys who won against all odds and before an all-male united states supreme court the decision roe v. wade that for 50 years almost protected a woman's right to privacy to make her own decisions about her own body. so let's make sure we support texas women right now. and there are a number of ways to do it. i'm focusing on registering the voters who can make sure we replace people like ken paxton with pro choice public servants who respect the people they are purported to serve in public office. that we win these competitive districts and ultimately, that our values are reflected in the wpe hold public office right now. so, the 2024 election and laura, i know every person says

this about every election cycle but these couldn't be more important. the lives of the women of texas are literally on the linement we also happen to be a state that has one of the worst maternal mortality crises of any state in the country. almost any developed country in the world. three times as deadly for black women right now. so this is literally life and death. that is why registering voters, voting, getting out there, meeting people, volunteering where you can, organizations like ours powered by people. that's the work we need to focus on. >> my friend and colleague abby phillip has a story about saving black women's lives and the health crisis we are facing in this country. and this is not a developing country. but the united states of america which is why as you mentioned thinking about roe v. wade and the dobbs decision, the supreme court is taking up another abortion related case. whether or not to ban mifepristone which is the most commonly used drug for medication abortions.

even in states where it is legal. are you worried about this court in particular knowing the dobbs decision, knowing that it has a conservative mayorty and they have been the ones to overturn roe v. wade, the fact that mifepristone is now part of the conversation. do you have concerns about being able to not count say texas or many other places out? >> absolutely. and everyone watching this needs to know the only reason you and i are having this conversation right now is the four years that donald trump was president. and the extremist justices that he nominated to the supreme court who have made this the living nightmare of so many women across the country. especially in states like texas. but as we mentioned that might be women in every single state in the union depending on how these extremist conservative justices decide this case. a case by the way which originated right here in texas in amarillo. so not to put too fine a point

on it but everything we do leading up to the 2024 election will determine the kind of country we live in. whether women, not just in texas, but in any state, are free to make their own decisions about their own body and decide their own future. that is not hyperbole. those are the facts so it is incumbent upon each of us. yes, voting is important. but that is the just what you are expected to do. sign up with the campaign. volunteer with somebody. run for office yourself if the filing deadline has not closed in your state. and fight for the rights that we are about to lose forever. maybe the last thing on this. i think it just underscores how important it is that joe biden win reelection. and i know there are some people for whom joe biden is not the ideal candidate. i get that. he says don't compare him to

the almighty, look at the alternative. it is all on the line right now. all of us must do all we can with what we have. where we are. here in texas, that means registering voters and winning every single election we can. >> it seems roe v. wade will remain on ballots, at least in invisible ink but certainly in spirit. beto o' rourke, thank you so much for joining us today. >> thank you. well, two men in los angeles, they are now free today after being wrongfully convicted and collectively, they spent decades, decades in prison. and you know what? they are not alone. there are others exonerated this week as well. we will talk about it next.

can you imagine spending years, even decades in prison knowing that you did not commit the crime you were convicted of? how would you feel if one day, you were able to walk free once

again? would it be relief? anger? joy? turns out probably all of the above. because sadly, we are hearing several firsthand accounts of people who were wrongfully convicted who have now been released. now i brought you one of those stories last night. the man who spent decades behind bars had his murder conviction vacated on the basis of unconstitutional witness identification. since i told you about him, we have learned of three more wrongful convictions. two night, two men convicted of murder as teens in separate los angeles cases are now speaking out. miguel solorio was 19 years old when he was arrested for a drive by shooting in 1998. in a review of new evidence, it was determined that he was misidentified as his brother in a photo lineup and he was released after 25 years in prison. >> a few weeks ago i celebrated thanksgiving with my family for

the first time in 25 years. i got to meet newcomers of the family. we ate amazing tamales and i gave each family member a huge hug. i'm a positive person. and who always has a mile on my face. that does not mean i do not struggle with the trauma i went through on the inside. >> then there's the other la case of giovanni hernandez. he was 14 when he was arrested in connection to the 2006 shooting death of another teenager. now his conviction in 2012 led to a sentence of 50 years to life in prison. now there is new evidence including cell phone records that was able to be used to secure his release. >> my case is not unique. there are more people in there who are innocent of a crime

they did not commit. i want to thank them for that because we need change in the system. i want to be a voice for those who cannot speak. in illinois, brian beals is now free after spending 35 years behind bars. he had been convicted back in 1988 for a shooting death of a six-year-old boy. but newly surprised faced witness statements showed ha beals was actually the target of the shooting. not the perpetrator. though marvin has had 20 years of his life taken away, he told me all he wants to do is look forward. >> when i got wrongly convicted i told the judge i am an innocent man. i did this at 16 years old. told him that. it's just a shame these people

are supposed to be for justice sent a child to prison. it is a shame. i'm looking at the past, the future. i'm an exonerated man and happy about that. >> it really begs the question just how many people could be behind bars for crimes they didn't commit? you know, more than 1.2 million people right mow are in state or federal prisons. while no system is perfect, even one wrongful conviction is one too many. i want to bring in cnn's josh campbell. josh, i'm so glad you are here. you and i have talked about the justice system more broadly and what can go wrong. walk us through a little bit about what you are learning about these two free men now in la. these were different cases but the process of exoneration

happened in terms of the evidence collection and how it can be proven. >> that's right. it is important to point out none of that evidence came to light because of the work of law enforcement. this was due to the dogged work of public defenders and volunteers. these non-profit works. you and i both worked in law enforcement and put people in jail. but law enforcement is made up of human beings who are not infallible. it is important to have these groups out there checking the work of the police. authorities gathered evidence. presented that to the los angeles county district attorney's office. new evidence came to life essentially overturning the convictions. >> you know, just the idea of the fallibility of humans. that is such an important point to think about who is behind

these decisions. the jury comprised of human beings as well. the da says both cases in la showed a real issue with how police are often relying on witness statements. talk the me a little bit about that. >> witnesses obviously very important investigative tools. you want to know what they saw. but there is a danger in law enforcement getting tunnel vision. and you know, focusing just on what one person says and certainly a danger if they are excluding other evidence. in the two cases that we have been talking about here with miguel solorio. authorities rely on a botched photo lineup that a witness looked at and determined that no, they actually got the wrong person in that case the and the second, he was just 14 years old, giovanni hernandez. because of the work of the

advocates. the la district attorney brought in the fbi. >> an analysis of mr. hernandez's cell phone records by the fbi shows his phone was not at or near the location of the shooting and supports his alibi that he was home at the time of the shooting. >> so again, important investigative tools. you end up with travesties like these men serving decades in prison for murders they did not commit. >> just the tragedy in that. we are all thinking about the families of the victims who now are faced with the prospect that person who is responsible has not been caught. is nos being held to account. and somebody else in their place. josh campbell, thanks so much. we'll be right back.

here is a full circle moment. we started the show with testimony about what happened behind closed doors. and now i want to show you stunning video that played out all across our televisions. there was an on court altercation during a golden state war yores phoenix suns game. draymond green has been suspended indefinitely after being thrown out of the game

during his team's 119-116 defeat to phoenix last night. during the third quarter, green spun around and struck the suns center yusef nurkic in the face. he claimed the hit was accidental. now it appears he might be suspended indefinitely following yet another incident. ththank you all l for watchihin our r coverage c continues. .

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