tonight on 360, the supreme

court says not so fast to jack smith. the former president says he knows nothing about hitler while defending and repeating his hitler like language. a survivor of the october 7th massacre and her remarkable journey to find the man who saved her life and the lives of many others that terrible day. good evening, anderson is off tonight. we begin with the supreme court's decision not to decide just yet the central question that could invalidate in of the charges against the former president. namely, does donald trump enjoy immunity from prosecution in actions he took as president? the judge in his january 6 trial ruled he did not. his lawyers appealed to the dc circuit court of appealings, jack smith asked the supreme court to by pass the dc circuit and take it now. and they said no. so we have not a clear understanding of why the justices decided to do this.

but walk us through what we know. how many votes this got and so forth. >> reporter: we don't know how many votes. we just know the supreme court said not yet, not right now. we will not look at this appeal that donald trump has on a question that really has to be figured out by appeals courts very likely the supreme court before he can sit for trial. and it is a question of whether trump has immunity because he was president that would allow him to essentially be avoiding any trial as a criminal defendant. now what is happening is instead of it going directly to the supreme court after the trial judge made the decision and said no, donald trump, you do not have immunity. we will not dismiss this case against you. you will go to trial. instead, it is going to go to the appeals court above the trial judge. the dc circuit court of appeals. they are indicating they are ready to go very fast. they have oral arguments set

for january which is really fast for that court. then after that, then it would go potentially back to the supreme court where the question would be pose again. >> that could affect the supreme court's decision. to be clear, this needed five votes from the justices. we don't know if there were any dissents or not. none of that was made public. >> no. just this one line they were denying the petition at this time. so, we just don't know what the thinking was or what the vote was. >> and the big question is what would this mean for the trial potentially? it is still on the books but whether it happens in march is another question. >> it's on the books for march 4th. everything in preparation for the trial is on hold. although there was a lot already done to prepare for that trial. evidence was turned over. it was on hold until this is

essentially figured out by an appeals court. this is the one issue that can go up on appeal before trump would have to go to trial. there are other things where he is trying to toss the case because of the law he charged under. those things are not going to be appealable initially. the immunity question really does have to get figured out. and once it is figured out, there's a couple of things that the trial court has to do still before trial takes place. so that date could move but it all depends on how fast all of the appeals process plays out. >> this is a blow to jack smith and win to donald trump for now. >> for now. i want to bring in retired federal judge nancy gertner. also, maggie haberman and cnn legal analyst karen. so judge, i want to start with you: what does it say to you that the supreme court decided not to take this up. special council jack smith had requested? >> i have two feelings about

it. one is that you understand that in 19 cases, the supreme court under trump took up an immediate appeal on abortion cases, on student. on affirmative action. cases that were far less weighy than this. on the one hand. on the other hand, the lack of a dissent suggests that the supreme court maybe they think that the dc circuit is moving fast enough. they have oral arguments scheduled january 9th and they are waiting for that decision. and they could move expeditiously. they may want the cover of the district court. the dc circuit decision before they move. in other words, they have already seen a court of appeals moving quickly. so this doesn't necessarily indicate that they are not going to take it up expeditiously. it is already being taken up expeditiously in the dc circuit. that might be one reason. >> so, basically, there was no dissent made public. there could have been dissent.

but we don't know whether there was or not because they were not made public. >> it is not unusual. one theory here and it is only a theory is that the apparent unanimity may mean that the dc circuit is already moving quite quickly and they would be willing to go once the dc circuit makes its decision. if it makes its decision and says the stay is lifted, then the trial before the judge can go ahead. they would have to move for a stay above the supreme court. in other words, there are a number of possibilities here that could still suggest an expeditious decision even if we don't see it right now. >> karen, were you surprised by the court's decision? >> not really surprised but the name of the game here for trump, though, is to delay. he does not want this case to

go to trial. and so, a little bit of time even if it does, even if it moves expeditiously, don't forget, this case could now, this time period could bump into march 24th. which is when the alvin bragg stormy daniels case is scheduled to go. any amount of time this case gets pushed, this case would have to go after that. then you are right in the middle of the election so any amount of delay is practically a win for trump. >> so maggie, the former president almost immediately began fund raising off of this decision. how much does his team see this as a win? >> look, they are playing a game of inches and those can get them as close to the election or past the election as possible because a number of trump's advisers have been very clear about this. he will if he wins order the

justice department to drop the cases. it is not good for any nominee to be sitting in court during the general election. so yes, they view this as a win and would say it was a win even if it wasn't. it has been very good for fund raiding for them. but i don't think we know what this means. >> just to follow up, i wonder if in your reporting if you get any sense that trump regrets that he didn't pardon himself at the very end? and whether it was something to consider if he did win. obviously, he doesn't go to trial before. >> i haven't heard that he is voicing any regrets about that. remember it is not a question

of clear litigation. i heard from multiple people, the likelier avenue he would take if he won again would be to have charges dropped by the doj he would then control. but he never rules out anything. he considers everything up until the last minute. >> that is very true. so judge, how do you see the appeals court responding to this? >> well, i mean, i think the order was really very solid. that there is no way that a president, a former president can escape criminal liability for what he did inin office tha it is fair to say that whatever he did with respect to the january 6th allegations, he was doing it not in his official duty. not within the parameters of his job, but rather in so far as he was conducting a campaign. and the second argument that somehow, this was following his impeachment trial, this double jeopardy is simply laughable so i think the chances are the dc circuit will affirm the judge

and there is a possibility that the supreme court would simply say yes after that. i don't know if this necessarily indicates what they will do one way or the other. >> just because they didn't take it up now doesn't mean that fortells the actual central question. karen, the question that will likely return to the supreme court after it goes through the appeals court, how much do you think the appearance of politicizing weighs into the calculus? >> one question that is remains unanswered is will clarence thomas recuse himself from this case the way many democrats have called for his recusal because of the appearance of politics. there should never be politics played, there is a separation of powers for a reason.

right? so politics should never play or be a factor at all. but at the end of the day, donald trump is running for president and whether or not the american people get to know a verdict in this particular case before they vote will largely depend on what the courts do and whether we get to have a trial, whatever the outcome is one way or the other. >> you were talking about how the trump campaign jumps on anything. they act like it is this massive deal. obviously, these cases tend to fire up the base. we have seen the polling after. seems like his popularity arises. do you think the sheer magnitude of the charges may end up having a negative impact for him in the general if he win ins the primary? >> i think it is important to remember that as much as we all pay a lot of attention to him, i don't think that the general election electorate is paying that much attention to him or

what is happening. i don't think that are that tuned in to the specifics or the trials or the charges and i just don't think this is a good fact set for him. i don't think any of this is helpful to him. if we assume that the two trials that are likely to go ahead next year are the alvin bragg case and the january 6th washington case. his folks consider the bragg case to not be as much of a problem because they think they can convince folks that it looks cheaper than the others. the fact set about what happened in the leadup to january 6, is going to involve a parade of his former and in some cases current advisers showing up in court to testify that he was told he had lost. that is just not going to be helpful. who knows where the world will be in six months. but no. what is helpful to him in a primary is not helpful in the

general election. >> thanks everyone. hope you have a great holiday weekend. thanks for being with us tonight. well up next, michigan secretary of state on a newly revealed phone records of the president after the 2020 election. and later how the southern border is as one official put it near a break point under the strain of a rising number of incoming migrants. we will go there live.

when we left you last night. news has broken about a call that the former president made to a pair of michigan election officials. the former president pushed them not to certify election results from detroit which he lost by a wide margin. so the question unanswered last night was what if anything michigan authorities can and might do about it. joining us now is. madame secretary, now that the details of this call are out there, how significant is this in your view? what do you think happens next? >> first, thanks for having me, we have always known about this call. i wasn't surprised by the content of it at all. as gut wrenching as it is to hear a former president try to pressure a local election official to not do their legal duty and certify valid election

results. so next comes legal culpability. the detroit news article that revealed this recording did so through an anonymous source so i don't think through that lens we will get details about the source material or who recorded it but i'm confident with the multiple criminal proceedings there will be some culpability crimes. >> do you believe a crime was committed based on the recording? >> i do. i certainly think that this was one of a string of illegal attempts to block the certification of our election results in michigan. i'm the chief election officer, not the chief lauans force. officer and certainly i have a lot of respect for those

looking for legal culpability here at the state level and federal investigation. and my office will continue to cooperate where everyone investigating these efforts above all to make sure it doesn't happen again. >> so you were interviewed by special council jack smith. i know you are not aware of whether his office has this recording. you jus learned at it yourself last night. but were you able to provide any evidence that essentially corroborates what trump was trying to do in this recording? >> when i met with federal investigators and individuals of the january 6th commission in congress, we consistently walk them through what was lived out in realtime. we saw commission. wayne county board of canvassers pressured and how we saw citizens step up and ensure that their votes would count. notably, these conversations happened in other states as well. we all heard the tape in georgia and what happened there

with the former president pressuring my colleague to find votes as well. we know this was not an isolated incident. that is why the federal investigation is so important. >> it was not an isolated incident. i wonder given the fact that donald trump is running for president again, how concerned are you about local official's ability to withstand potential pressure in the next election cycle if trump loses again? >> we have been preparing for that since january 6, 2021 where it became very clear to me we were witnessing the beginning, not the end of what has turned out to be a multiyear effort to subvert our elections and harm citizens' faith in their democracy. so we are prepared. we have a strategy ourselves. we are fully prepared hoping

for the best. if any losing candidate would try to subvert the will of the people in 2024. >> how do you prepare? what are you planning to do differently next time around if it happens? than you did last time? what do you do? >> two things we have already done. strengthened our laws here in michigan and in other states to protect officials from threats and also to protect and require the certification process to be by the book. we tightened those pieces up. it has been helpful in that regard. in addition, we have worked to recruit and train more election workers and require everyone working elections to adhere to a code of conduct. so we minimize any internal disruptions or malfeasance. we are putting procedures in place during the election and the post election process.

and then, in addition to that, handling the narrative side. the deluge of information we know will hit our state and voters in the months ahead and the post election process. citizens need to be critical of this information. >> i mean, donald trump, he is continuing to say if he loses, the election is rigged by democrats. he just said it. so that misinformation continues. secretary of state benson, thank you so much. up next, a live report from the southern border. and new numbers on the growing influx of migrants. plus, the former president triples down twofold ton one of his claims these migrants are poisoning the country's blood. and two, that he is not borrowing language from hitler. plus, with the caucuses just 25 days from now, gary tuckman talks to people in iowa about what they all make of this.

a record number of migrants are big apprehended at the u.s.

mexico border. the u.s. customs and border protections say the seven day average this month is more than 9600 encounters. that is up 6800 at the end of november. also, there are more than 26,000 migrants in u.s. custody this week. that's nearly 10,000 over capacity. and lawmakers from capitol hill are still at a standstill on what to do about the crisis. cnn's rafael romo joins us from eagle pass texas. first off, what are you seeing on the border tonight? >> reporter: we are at a migrant camp at eagle pass. behind me, you can see a holding area of border patrol agents take immigrants once they surrendered to authorities so they can wait there before being processed. this is happening only hours after a customs and border protection released the latest on the number of apprehensions here at the u.s. southern border.

the border patrol recorded a total of 191,113 of what they call encounters. with immigrants. meaning apprehensions, people who turn themselves in. that compares to 189,000 or 4,000 more than the month of october. these are only people who cross the border at sites other than a point of entry. if we add everybody else, the figure is close to a quarter million. they recognize they are facing a serious challenge along the u.s. border. they need more resources from congress to both enhance the security at the border and the country as a whole. and their reality is the family impact to communities like eagle pass is brutal. this is the city of less than 30,000 people. local officials say they are having to deal with this crisis

with little to no help. he says the situation here at the border is at a breaking point. >> reporter: what is the white house saying about this crisis and the claim from officials there, the local officials, that the government is not just doing enough? >> they are doing everything they can. pulling the resources that are needed not only in terms of personnel and equipment. the local and state agencies. the reality is that the people we have talked to here feel that it is not yet enough especially when it talks to resouses. places these migrants have to go to. because they have no other option. >> rafael, thank you. the former president weighed in about the language he has been using repeatedly to

describe unauthorized immigrants. also, about his resemblance to adolf hitler's. he said these immigrants were poisoning or destroying the blood of the country. he repeated it. >> when you look at it and what's coming in. from all over the world. not one group. they are coming in from asia, from africa, from south america. they are coming from all over the world. they are coming from prisons. they are coming from mental institutions. and insane asylums. they are terrorists. absolutely. that's poisoning our country. that's poisoning the blood of our country. >> notably, he did not include people from europe in that tripling down on the blood poisoning slur. his wife melania is an immigrant from eastern europe. as for borrowing from hitler, listen. >> i know nothing about hitler. i'm not a student of hitler. i never read his works. they say that he said something about blood. he didn't say it the way i said it either by the way. a different kind of statement. what i'm saying when i talk

about people coming here to our country is they are destroying our country. >> well actually, if you look at what hitler said, the similarities are striking. here is hitler talking about jews. quote. he poisons the blood of others but uses his own blood unadulterated. the poison with an influx of foreign blood. rotors and trump byographers have documented his long substantial doubting fascination with the man. whether he read hitler's works or not, his language is strikingly similar. though toxic to many, it is appealing to more than just a few. like in iowa where he used it this week. recent polling shows that 42% of republican voters say the former president's claim that immigrants are quote poisoning the blood of the country makes them more likely to support him. however, some of those voters,

iowa farmers, rely heavily on immigrant labor so how do they feel? 360 gary's tuckman reports. corey, his wife and eight children have a 24,000-acre family farm in the small town of west bend, iowa. >> we grow organic corn, soybeans and oats are our three main crops. >> reporter: about 50 miles south from the city of fort dodge, father and son gary and dave nelson also farm corn and soybeans. >> how many acres do you have on the farm? >> it is about 35,000 acres. >> reporter: both families have successful businesses and have had the same political outlook. >> who did you vote for for president in 2016 and 2020? >> i voted for trump. >> both times? >> both times. >> in 2016 and 2020, who did you vote for? >> donald trump. yeah. >> both times? >> yeah. >> i voted for donald trump both times. >> reporter: harvest season is now over. during the heart of the season,

corey needed about 90 workers. >> are there enough americans to take those jobs? >> there are not. >> reporter: so corey had 72 migrants working at his farm this year. legally. under the government h2a program. he thinks the government needs to make it easier for more migrants to come to the u.s. to work. he hadn't seen and heard what donald trump said about undocumented migrants coming across the border so we showed it to him. >> it is crazy what's going on. they are ruining our country. and it's true. they are destroying the blood of our country. that's what they are doing. >> reporter: so we asked how does that make you feel about the man you voted for twice? >> that brings out a side of him that makes me not decide what i'm going to do this year. >> about whether you are going to vote for him? >> right. >> what do you think of the people who worked for you would think about those comments? >> they would be offended by that. >> reporter: gary and dave nelson said they will likely hire migrant workers in the future under the same

government program. we showed them the same trump video. >> i don't think it was appropriate. my ancestors came at one time. and maybe the same thing was thought about them. >> do you find it offensive to use that vote? >> yes, that's harsh words. it's not proper. it's not fitting from a presidential candidate. >> do you wish he didn't say that? >> definitely. i mean, he is using words from things like that in our past of the nazi and that. and that has been the hard thing with trump. is just, too many times, things are said that it is like whether it is taken out of context or h he is using examples that don't apply in these situations. >> reporter: son dave doesn't know who he wants for president at this point. father gary is supporting ron desantis. recent polling shows likely republican caucus goers are more likely to support trump because of these comments.

at the groggy dog restaurant in indianola, iowa. >> it's true, they are destroying the blood of our country. >> reporter: i showed this video to one of our customers and this trump supporter is okay with it. >> does it make you even more supportive of donald trump? >> um, yeah. because he is pretty like i said, straightforward. you know. spells it out for you right there. and what he wants and what he want to do to make our country better. >> so you don't think it's offensive? >> no. no. >> reporter: outside the restaurant. >> do you think the comments are offensive? >> to some. >> is it offensive to you? >> no. >> reporter: to be clear, the farmers we talked to do not favor illegal immigration. they fair more legal immigration. u.s. agriculture needs it. >> if you could talk to former president trump and give him a message about his language, and how to handle this situation, what would you say to him? as a farmer? >> as a farmer we need them to

get our work done here. they are a messy. and there's a lot of good people that come. they are a necessity. a lot of good people come. >> gary joins us from iowa. had most of the people you talked with seen the video of donald trump making these comments before you talk with them? >> pamela, the answer is no. most of the people we met have not seen the video of these comments by donald trump and many of the people didn't even know about the comments. so when we talk with these loyal republicans first i read the comments to them. and some of those people said yes. i'm on board with that. but then the same people i showed them the video and that is much more vivid when you see a video and see mr. trump saying this and when you hear him. some of those people then said, maybe i'm not okay with that. maybe that was a bit mean. that's what we heard from the people we talked with and it is important to point out the video made a big difference. >> gary, thanks so much. up next, anderson speaks with three israelis on their

loved ones who are hostages and still missing in gaza.

the security council passed a long delayed resolution on the israel hamas conflict calling for urgent and humanitarian pauses. the passed with the united states and russia abstaining. we learned israeli american hostage died in gaza wounded during his abduction from his kabutz. his wife remains in captivity. he was 73. recently, anderson spoke with three israelis whose loved ones are still being held. raz has been fred. amit and mija whose 19-year-old sister nama was taken. there is video of nama's abduction. it is as you imagine difficult to watch. but important to see because this is what really happened.

>> anderson spoke with nama's

brother. here is their conversation. >> how do you get through the days? it's been almost 70 days. it is unthinkable. >> it is really unthinkable. we get through the days by keeping on reminding ourselves, us and our parents, we keep reminding ourselves that nama is stronger than we all know. and that she is probably going through horrific things that are really unthinkable. that's the word i think. >> your mom has been outspoken about her fears of what is happening to your sister? >> yeah. we share the same fears obviously. we also had the video. she walks barefoot.

with a terrorist holding a gun right next to her head. >> natalie, how are you holding up? >> i'm fine, but can't really be fine. so. >> your mom and dad were talken. there is video. did you see that video of them early on or did that come out days later? >> there is video of my mom that came out a few days later but there is a photo of my dad that we got on the same date. >> your mom was returned in a release. how is she? >> not so good. she is trying to be fine. but she is not. you can see on her. she is traumatized. >> what do you want people to know about your sister?

>> she was a peace seeker. >> a peace seeker? >> yeah. she was part of a grant program that israeli teenagers, palestinian teenagers and american teenagers were going together on a trip to talk about peace and talk to each other. try to hear the other side. try to hear other people's positions. >> what do you want people to know about your dad? >> i want him to come back as he was before. like that smiling person who tries to make everybody else laugh. it's hard to say it. but not in a body bag. >> natalie, you returned to your home. and, your home has been destroyed. >> our home is ruined. many houses were burned. with people inside. >> is there anything else you want people to know?

that you want to say? >> we need to bring them back now. now. because if not now, they could be dead or i don't know. too trauma tuesdayed to be able to keep living their life again. >> i really miss naama and really love her. maybe cnn is on a screen in gaza and she will be able to see this. >> what would you want her to know? >> that we love her and we are doing everything we can. >> and we need all the world's support. we need everyone. we need to bring them back. we need them back. and i would love to give you this necklace.

it is written on our heart. bring them home. >> thank you very much. i appreciate that. >> there is one more thing that it is very important. not many people know or think about it that way. but, hamas is a terror organization. they came to our house, he took my parents and he came to other houses. you know. all this area. and he killed babies, he killed grown-ups. he took teenagers. even teenagers to gaza. the world has to know about that. they are not freedom fighters. >> some things are just bad. no one will now argue that the nazis were bad. isis, al qaeda are the worst. hamas is the same. we know that we are now

suffering from it. but in the end, the good will win. we are all optimistic about that. and history won't tour give the people silent against the evil in these times. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, a cnn exclusive. one woman thought death was imminent when she ran as hamas attacked the musical festival. thanks to the help of a stranger, she and dozens of others were saved. she was never able to thank him until now.

now, the story of a woman who ran on october 7. she thought she would not survive until a stranger came to her rescue. now, they have been reunited. we have this incredible story. >> looking at that caught of smoke, what does that trigger for you? >> it reminds me of those noises that bring me back to that day. >> reporter: in southern israel you do not need a map to know you are back in southern gaza. that loud boom? outgoing artillery near our car. tell me what that made you feel like >> i got scared like we were

being shot at. >> reporter: the last time she was on this road she was running for her life. just after sunrise on saturday, october 7, rocket interception seen from the dance floor at the dance festival. hamas militants killed more than 350 people, mostly young, mostly jewish, mostly unarmed. >> i felt so lucky that i made it out and that i got out alive. i feel it is my duty to be that voice for all those who are not as lucky as me. >> reporter: that since of duty is why she is returning to israel for the first time the attacks. >> just seeing all these faces and knowing people that loved these faces. >> reporter: faces of friends who never made it home. >> oh, my goodness, she is when i recognize. i was dancing right next to them. it is hard to see how many of

them there are. >> reporter: it could've been you. the music festival campsite is now a place where families come to grief. rockets in the sky, gunshots in the ground. all she could do was run. many took cover in bathrooms, ditches, most of them ended up dead. four hours a running, exhausted, dehydrated. natalie collapsed. >> i would sit down and accept my fate >> reporter: too tired to run as a truck came closer. >> we had nowhere to run, this was like a terrorist coming to get us. >> reporter: the man behind the wheel, not a terrorist. from a nearby village. she only tracked him down a few days ago. that is why she has come back, to thank him. they are about to meet for the first times that day. >> reporter: the man fighting back tears.

an israeli father of four who left home and drove directly into danger, not once or twice, more than 10 trips to and from the music festival site. >> you live so close to this. were you prepared, fully, for what you saw on october 7? >> things like this, you can't forget. i will never forget what i saw. it is very, very tough. >> reporter: haunted by the horrors he saw, heartened by the lives he saved. >> so many people were saved on this truck. >> reporter: natalie, one of well over 100 people he packed into his pickup and drove to safety. >> this truck saved so many

lives. it looks like an average truck but i stood right there in that corner. if it wasn't for him i truly don't think i would have been here today. >> reporter: one bright chapter on a very dark day. >> i understand that not only has been the target of hateful messages since sharing her story. tell us more. >> reporter: that is one interesting thing she said. she never expected that inputting her story out there people would flood her social media with anti-semitic comments. despite what happened here, she feels safer here than she does back home in the united states. she is a native new yorker. that city is a melting pot of diversity and yet she feels like, right now, there is so much anti-israeli sentiment. she wanted to tell her story and keep putting herself out there to remind people that this began with a human tragedy. to put a face on all those who lost their lives in this event

that started this horrific war. >> it is very sad she is having to go through that. ripley, thank you. next, the verdict in the case of two paramedics charged with the death of elelijah mclelean.